I have kind of changed my view on this and this thread which has become more about tracking the Illuminati imagery in the show then anything else. I also now belevie that the war or conflict in the show exists within the Illuminati itself. The warring factions are Hawking and Widmore. Both are Illuminati and both want different things for the Island.

Enjoy the the posts and let me know your thoughts!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch this video below and see how the ideas discussed are a direct correlation to the overall story of LOST.

Illuminati - Dark Secret World Exposed - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrKlcj7NOnc&feature=related

Okay, hopefully you have watched some or all 5 parts of the video. While I was watching the video I couldn’t help but think that this is LOST. You can believe or not believe in the Illuminati as an actual conspiracy this is not what we are discussing. I simply think Damon and Carlton have fork lifted the Illuminati conspiracy theory (which is very interesting read and with the success of Dan Brown’s book the Da Vinci Code, the producers have tapped into something that has a very large audience). Damon and Carlton have made numerous references to the Illuminati on their podcast and interviews.

Here is a simple breakdown of how the producers of Lost are using this idea or story of the Illuminati as the main source of inspiration behind Lost:

- The Illuminati is represented in LOST by Widmore and Paik. As stated in the video the Illuminati are simply wealthy, powerful, evil men who want to not only control the world but they want to harness the physical and natural power of the world for their own evil ends. They are “waging a war on the planet itself.”
- The Island represents the Earth, and has a soul as does every living thing on the planet. We have numerous references to the Island as living thing not just a solid mass of rock and dirt. These souls and spirits are part of the energy that surrounds the earth and they call this energy field “the ether.” Lost has explored this idea through the whispers and apparitions of dead people on the Island.
- The Others, I guess, really are the good guys. They are trying to stop the Illuminati from achieving their goals. The Illuminati attempted to harness the soul and specialness of the Island for their own purposes. The Others and those native to the island (whomever they may be) are thus waging a war against the Illuminati.
- Religion – this is a central theme to the story of the Illuminati as they have been associated with the Vatican. It is also a central theme to Lost. Also in the video we see the Illuminati being associated with the evil and Satanism thus solidifying their bad guy status.
- Demons and Angels – we have been introduced to Abandon who may very well be a demon that is working for the Illuminati or maybe he is a good guy, I can’t really say. But the fact the producers are using Abandon fits nicely with what the video says about the Illuminati conjuring up evil demons from the spirit realm or ether. I guess if you can conjure up evil spirits you can also conjure up good spirits (Ms. Hawking perhaps?).

Whether or not you believe in this Illuminati conspiracy theory is completely up to you. But what is interesting to me is how the Lost producers have taken this story and reworked it into a fictious show about the survivors of a plane crash on a strange island. The other interesting thing is that all the science, all the conspiracies theories and all the time looping theories discussed on this and other boards can easily fit within the Illuminati story framework of Lost.


I look forward to the discussion to follow…..
Cheers and Happy Holidays to all!!
(notice this is post 66 and I am discussing the Illuminati....)

As above and so below,
Betwixt and between the worlds we go,
As below and so above,
Dancing eternal our bonds of love.

Time without time, an absence of dates
Epiphany's festival calls out the Fates
Important to know the black, white and red
A dozen no more to speak with the Dead

Celestial forms repeat ad infinitum
The snake sheds its skin but shall not yet bite them
A rod from the Lote divines Sophia's river
Dive underground at the price of your liver

A house of the rising sun is her pleasure
A hive of her bees guards the sacred treasure
Retrieve if you dare Persephone's cream
One whiff Reveals life's memory dream

Awaken ye now upon Jacob's old chair
A secreted view to Lillith's new heir
Reborn again or perhaps a fried egg
Sprouts axis mundi from Masonic peg

A kiss to de Vir for such Love within burns
Go back and remember salvation returns
Solomon's seal of the triangle centers
Rites consecrate and anOther world enters

A spell has been cast from such Island pith
The story as told makes more than a myth
That spiraling Center portends to kill time
Out of the chaos a new paradigm

Mircea he knew what makes manifest
Reality spins out of heroes twice blessed
The mirror it splits a soul right in two
Particles know such a twinned point of view

We've come to the crossroads and soon we must choose
Witch path to take and weather to lose
A line irreversible from the machine
Or threads Ariadne labyrinthine

Now that you know thine Will to be Free
Dance shall we now Banyan hierophany
The journey proceeds to A Time Once Upon,
Two bee hear now evanesce Kate --

Om

The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
And a dark wind blows
The government is corrupt
And we're on so many drugs
With the radio on and the curtains drawn

We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
And the machine is bleeding to death

The sun has fallen down
And the billboards are all leering
And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles

It went like this:

The buildings tumbled in on themselves
Mothers clutching babies picked through the rubble
And pulled out their hair

The skyline was beautiful on fire
All twisted metal stretching upwards
Everything washed in a thin orange haze

I said: "kiss me, you're beautiful -
These are truly the last days"

You grabbed my hand and we fell into it
Like a daydream or a fever

We woke up one morning and fell a little further down -
For sure it's the valley of death

I open up my wallet
And it's full of blood

Godspeed You! Black Emperor - "The Dead Flag Blues"

Jacopo, are you familiar with the Illuminatus! trilogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy)?

Jacopo, are you familiar with the Illuminatus! trilogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus%21_Trilogy)?

No - but he sounds like a good read! Thanks for the link bigmouth. Very interesting stuff indeed....

Hmmm, I'm not seeing it. I think we have here is a classic case of parallelism.

I think you can line up the two stories and see similar elements, but that doesn't mean they are related or borrowed from one another.

I believe what we have here is more a case of both stories containing classic elements of a "mythical structure" with character archetypes and hero type plot lines. Of course, it a bit more complex than that. Also, PAWs (producers and writers) have not made comments about the Illuminati as an influence for the Lost story. (At least, not to my knowledge. I stand to be corrected on this point just in case.)

I do think you have a good theory, but for me the dots are not quite connecting.

The flip side to the story is that the "real" Illuminati - that is, those who've been Illuminated - are not the dead souls who seek to rule the world, but rather those who seek to spread the Light so that we may lift each other up and cast off our oppressors. In other words, Paik and Widmore are not the Illuminati, though delusionally they think they are. It's Ben and Richard and the Others who are the Illuminati, and they are teaching the Losties how to escape the Black Iron Prison that exists in their minds.

How does Sun wrest control of Paik Industries? With the help of her friends, of course, albeit through covert action so as to protect themselves.

Hmmm, I'm not seeing it. I think we have here is a classic case of parallelism.

I think you can line up the two stories and see similar elements, but that doesn't mean they are related or borrowed from one another.

I believe what we have here is more a case of both stories containing classic elements of a "mythical structure" with character archetypes and hero type plot lines. Of course, it a bit more complex than that. Also, PAWs (producers and writers) have not made comments about the Illuminati as an influence for the Lost story. (At least, not to my knowledge. I stand to be corrected on this point just in case.)

I do think you have a good theory, but for me the dots are not quite connecting.


Thanks for the post PapaThor! And I do agree with you. But perhaps my initial post wasn't clearly communicated which I have a tendency of doing when I am in a rush to post an idea or theory. I thinks the dots are connected and I will attempt to illuminate this idea further (pure cheese I know but I couldn't resist).

As for the producers referring to the Illuminati, this is a definite fact, albeit I am way to lazy to track down the exact references and I was hoping someone would be able to point you to the exact podcasts, interviews, etc....But I do know that Damon did say that one of the numbers (I forget which one) was very special to the Illuminati. From Lostpedia “23 is in several conspiracy theories the number of the "Illuminati (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Illuminati)". It is claimed to appear all over history.” Here is another link for you to check out and they confirm that the Illuminati are indeed an influence on the show:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Illuminati

The story of the Illuminati, whether you believe it to be fact or fiction is for our purposes irrelevant, contains all the same elements that are currently being explored in Lost.

I don’t think the producers are doing a verbatim or an exact replica of the Illuminati conspiracy theory on Lost. But I do think they have taken the core central theme of the conspiracy theory to form the basic struggle of good and evil on Lost. For me it makes total sense because it’s so simple. The Illuminati as represented by Paik and Widmore are the evil ones and the Others really are the “good guys’. Look at all the elements of Lost that are shared with the Illuminati conspiracy theories.

For me the most revealing part of the video that I referenced at the beginning of this post is when the narrator is explaining that every living thing has a soul even the earth. I immediately thought of Lost and the Island having a soul and a power. In the video the narrator describes how the Illuminati want to control this power and wage war against the earth and to control the earth for their own evil purposes. Are we not witnessing a similar struggle on Lost between Ben’s group and Widmore’s group? Is there not a war going on between these two camps? What is the nature of this war, what are they fighting over? Answer - The Island, its power, its soul.

The video speaks about “the ether” as an energy source that encompasses the entire earth. The souls of the dead inhabit the ether. The video states that the Illuminati attempt to tap into this ether and conjure up evil spirits to assist them in their quest for world domination. Perhaps the Island is a conduit to the ether hence the whispers. Perhaps the smoke monster is nothing more than an evil spirit conjured up the DI (or Illuminati if you will). And what about Abandon and Ms Hawking, could they not be spirits our souls from the ether.

My main contention is that the Illuminati conspiracy theory provides all the necessary elements to make one great show. I truly believe the Lost producers have taken the Illuminati conspiracy theory and adapted it for the TV. I think the reasoning is simple – it’s a clear story of good versus evil (much like Star Wars) that incorporates elements of spirituality, religion, science and science fiction and it’s all tightly tied together within the realm of a very interesting and intriguing conspiracy.

Now can’t you just see Damon and JJ pitching this idea to execs at ABC? Given the fact that they had to come up with something rather quickly and their own personal love for the esoteric, I can completely see how the Illuminati conspiracy theory is the basis for Lost.
100%
The flip side to the story is that the "real" Illuminati - that is, those who've been Illuminated - are not the dead souls who seek to rule the world, but rather those who seek to spread the Light so that we may lift each other up and cast off our oppressors. In other words, Paik and Widmore are not the Illuminati, though delusionally they think they are. It's Ben and Richard and the Others who are the Illuminati, and they are teaching the Losties how to escape the Black Iron Prison that exists in their minds.

How does Sun wrest control of Paik Industries? With the help of her friends, of course, albeit through covert action so as to protect themselves.

Thanks jane! I always love your posts and I think you are one the best writers on this and other sites. I like the metaphorical aspect of your statement but I am trying to be a little more literal. I believe that the actual Illuminati conspiracy theory is a direct influence of how Lost is structured. The souls in the ether are being used by both good and bad forces in the war and there is a war being waged between Widmore (or according to the conspiracy theory - The Illuminati) and the Others (Ben, Richard etc... And you are correct they are in fact the literal definition of the Illuminated ones but for sake of this argument the Illuminati is a reference to "real" conspiracy theory the video discusses).

Very simply the goal of the Widmore (Illuminati) is to control the earth through scientific and supernatural means. While the goal of the Others is to prevent this happening by using any means possible.

I think you can line up the two stories and see similar elements, but that doesn't mean they are related or borrowed from one another.
You might change your mind when you get to the part where someone on a tropical island has been given a statue of a church idol to examine and thinks about how useful they'd be to smuggle heroin if they were suitably hollowed out. Or maybe the 23s alone would be enough for you (or the number on the transport bringing in the Oceanic 6), or if not then comparing what goes on in Room 23 to Simon Moon's treatment under the CFR HQ. If still not, then I guess you'll have to wait until you find out on Lost that Craphole (Poo, get it?) was Fernando Poo.

I became friendly with both of the authors (we're all Bobs), so I might be able to answer a few questions about it.

Robert

Just to throw something more out there - Brother Campbell (Roman Catholic/Vatican) is connected to Ms Hawking (spirit) and they are both connected to Widmore (Illuminati). In the Illuminati conspiracy theory the Illuminati are connected to the Vatican (or more accurately specific groups within the Vatican), they enjoy conjuring spirits (Baphomet is a popular demon associated with the Illuminati rituals).

Just some further food for thought....

You might change your mind when you get to the part where someone on a tropical island has been given a statue of a church idol to examine and thinks about how useful they'd be to smuggle heroin if they were suitably hollowed out. Or maybe the 23s alone would be enough for you (or the number on the transport bringing in the Oceanic 6), or if not then comparing what goes on in Room 23 to Simon Moon's treatment under the CFR HQ. If still not, then I guess you'll have to wait until you find out on Lost that Craphole (Poo, get it?) was Fernando Poo.
Doc: I could be wrong here, but I think Pops was referring to the story of the Illuminati, not the Illuminatus! trilogy. I'm pretty sure Damon has confirmed the latter is a major influence on Lost.

I became friendly with both of the authors (we're all Bobs), so I might be able to answer a few questions about it.
Hail Bob!

how terrible it must be
to choose con artistry
unable to wear inside out
one's very self in doubt
from such powerlessness
no light shines
no trust is forged
no love is won
just an empty sheath
floating
nowhere

Doc: I could be wrong here, but I think Pops was referring to the story of the Illuminati, not the Illuminatus! trilogy. I'm pretty sure Damon has confirmed the latter is a major influence on Lost.
How could any extended allusion to Illuminatus! not touch in some way on the Illuminati? I suppose Lost could be said to be referencing specifically Fission Chips, 23s, 17s, and the "opening act" for When Atlantis Ruled The Earth, but doesn't that pretty much automatically invoke conspiratology thematically, even if those elements are part of nobody else's account of the Illuminati? It'd be like naming characters Dog, Dumpy, Gropey, Basher, Sleazy, etc. and then saying they refer only to Walt Disney rather than to Snow White because it's making fun only of the names Disney gave to the dwarves.

Robert

Illuminatus! and Watchmen (two confirmed influences) both share something else with LOST.
Odd narratives that jump all over the place.

There is a third book that fits right in with these other two and let's just say if you get 'Dharma Special Access' you know which one it is. There is also a paraphrasing of one of the main characters in that book in the final book of the Illuminatus! trilogy.

"Stream of consciousness"

JacoboBelpo, you make some good points, but I disagree with your premise.

Through S4 we don't have any concrete evidence for a traditional conspiracy (taking the LOST story at face value and not as a Suds-ian teleplay-within-a-teleplay.) Any reference to Widmore by Captain Galt, Keamy, Naomi or any of the other freighties has been by name or either as "my employer" or "the man I work for" - singular, where I'd expect plural if a conspiracy were behind it all. Widmore doesn't seem to be working very hard at masking his identity. That's hardly what I'd expect from the mastermind of a secret plot for world domination.

We also have no evidence that Widmore is working with any other rich, powerful individuals. Alvar Hanso's connection seems to be restricted to DI. We have no evidence that Paik even knows about the island. Abaddon's allegiance is still unclear - even if he is confirmed to be Widmore's colleague or subordinate, he could still be subverting Widmore's aims. The stuff about angels and devils is interesting but is only based on the derivation of Abaddon's name.

Widmore purchased the Black Rock first mate's journal personally rather through an agent as one would expect if he wanted to hide his interest. That, coupled with his nightmares, suggest to me that his interest in the island is a personal obsession rather than part of a calculating plan.

Finally, Ben's resources and methods in the outside world seem to match Widmore's. For example, each accused the other of planting the fake Flight 815 in the Sunda trench. That leads me to believe that the good/evil label may depend on who is telling the story.

That leaves us with a story about two powerful, ruthless, obssessed men battling to control the island. That doesn't sound much like the classic conspiracy story.

That's not to say that S5 won't show us a conspiracy that extends beyond just Widmore, but even if it does I don't see a strong argument that TPTB took the show's basic premise directly from the Illuminati. If there is a connection, it likely developed around the main story to flesh out the antagonists that would threaten our protagonists. The theme of protecting versus exploiting the island is suggestive of the Illuminati story but it could just as easily have arisen from the idea that the island is special and needs protecting. "Protected from whom?" TPTB ask themselves. "...I got it! From a rich corporation! Or a world-wide conspiracy!"

We've been told that the story will be about the characters and nothing has less characterization than a faceless conspiracy.

Bigmouth, I almost dropped a Hail Bob last night.

Doctor Robert, why is not surprising you've met Wilson and Shea?

I think anyone who has read Illuminatus! would have a good insight into your meta-theory.

Doctor Robert, why is not surprising you've met Wilson and Shea?
It came via libertarian cx: Bonnie Kaplan when we were living in Chicagoland to meet Shea, and Don Meinshausen back here in New Yorsey to meet Wilson.

As to Enchanter's objection, a conspiracy isn't faceless; rather, it has multiple faces. In this case, it's all the characters. There may be a few people in on it whom we haven't been shown, but I think when we see Lost we're seeing basically the conspirators, and nearly all of them.

Scream, for instance, showed us a conspiracy, as did Scream 2. Were they faceless? Very character-driven, in fact. The trouble is that you're used to seeing conspiracy stories wherein the encounters with the conspirators tend to be brief and unrevealing. In Lost the conspirators are the focus. It's still unrevealing in a sense because they're con artists and we don't get to see them acting sincerely in the open, nor their real backgrounds, but they're not faceless.

Robert

JacoboBelpo, you make some good points, but I disagree with your premise. Great! Thanks for posting and let’s see if I can change your mind :)….


Through S4 we don't have any concrete evidence for a traditional conspiracy (taking the LOST story at face value and not as a Suds-ian teleplay-within-a-teleplay.) Any reference to Widmore by Captain Galt, Keamy, Naomi or any of the other freighties has been by name or either as "my employer" or "the man I work for" - singular, where I'd expect plural if a conspiracy were behind it all. Widmore doesn't seem to be working very hard at masking his identity. That's hardly what I'd expect from the mastermind of a secret plot for world domination. Widmore, is but one part of the conspiracy. Much like the Illuminati is not one family but many families (ie the Rockerfeller’s and the Rothchild’s). In the scene with Widmore and Sun do we not get the insinuation that Widmore and Paik know each other? But let’s overlook this for a moment. As I stated Widmore is only member of the conspiratorial group. As I previously mentioned Widmore, Brother Campbell and Ms Hawking are all connected and part of the conspiracy group (or the Illuminati). Brother Campbell represents the Illuminati connection with the Vatican and Ms Hawking represents the Illuminati connection with the Ether or spiritual force that gives life and form to our world. So already I think I have shown you that it is not Widmore alone, he is simply one part of greater conspiracy.

We also have no evidence that Widmore is working with any other rich, powerful individuals. Alvar Hanso's connection seems to be restricted to DI. We have no evidence that Paik even knows about the island. Abaddon's allegiance is still unclear - even if he is confirmed to be Widmore's colleague or subordinate, he could still be subverting Widmore's aims. The stuff about angels and devils is interesting but is only based on the derivation of Abaddon's name. So why call the character Abaddon? Why not call him Phil or George Smith? The producers are giving us a clue by giving him such a powerful Biblical name. Secondly the Illuminati conspiracy theorists believe that the Illuminati are not only conjuring spirits for their own purpose but their overall goal is to disrupt the “Ether” in which they live and use it as an energy source (I think anyway – I am no expert on the Illuminati conspiracy theory but this is what I took from the video linked in my original post) I will grant you that we still don’t know much about the DI but one question lurks in the back of my mind. Who built all those “Stations” on the Island? Where did the money come from to finance all the building and all the people? Hanso, Widmore, Paik, Mittleos?


Widmore purchased the Black Rock first mate's journal personally rather through an agent as one would expect if he wanted to hide his interest. That, coupled with his nightmares, suggest to me that his interest in the island is a personal obsession rather than part of a calculating plan.
Hmmm, well this is your personal interpretation of the nightmares but they can also mean that he is unsure of his position within the conspiracy. Having nightmares can have many meanings. Although I will give you that there is definitely some kind of personal obsession with finding the Island. But again if he is part of an occult organization like the Illuminati and since he then possesses an esoteric knowledge of the world, then the possession and finding of the Island would be at the very core of every member of this Illuminati like group.


Finally, Ben's resources and methods in the outside world seem to match Widmore's. For example, each accused the other of planting the fake Flight 815 in the Sunda trench. That leads me to believe that the good/evil label may depend on who is telling the story.
I think they are definitely taking a more adult approach to the Star Wars theme. Blurring the lines of morality so that it’s not all so black and white. More like varying shades of grey. This allows for more viewer involvement and discussion on the morality and ethics of war.


That leaves us with a story about two powerful, ruthless, obssessed men battling to control the island. That doesn't sound much like the classic conspiracy story. But as I stated above it’s not just two men. It’s Ben, Richard, Locke and all the Others, it’s Widmore, Ms Hawking, Brother Campbell (the Vatican) etc… Ben may have a personal vendetta against Widmore for killing his daughter but over the 4 seasons we have seen many people who are connected with the Island.

That's not to say that S5 won't show us a conspiracy that extends beyond just Widmore, but even if it does I don't see a strong argument that TPTB took the show's basic premise directly from the Illuminati.

The Illuminati conspiracy theory contains all the same elements as Lost. Perhaps I was wrong to suggest that they simply forklifted the story, but there are glaring similiarities. Watch the video again and if you still don’t see how the TPTB could take all those elements and apply them to Lost then oh well, we’ll just agree to disagree.

If there is a connection, it likely developed around the main story to flesh out the antagonists that would threaten our protagonists. The theme of protecting versus exploiting the island is suggestive of the Illuminati story but it could just as easily have arisen from the idea that the island is special and needs protecting. When JJ and Damon got the story from Jeffrey Leiber (who is no longer involved with Lost but created the Island and the characters), they added the mystical and scientific element to the Island. Where did they draw this inspiration from? Multiple sources of course but with a key focus on the Illuminati. Why the Illuminati? Because it makes for a great story…. Nature, the Island and the earth have a conciousness and a soul. There is a spirit world that exists within an “Ether” and if you have the right tools you can communicate with this world. This is the battleground of the Illuminati conspiracy and the battleground on Lost.

It seems this thread has "lost" some interest :smile:

But I am going to keep posting because I really do believe we are watching a war between the evil Illuminati and the good guys or The Others.

I just finished watching "The Economist". This is entire episode is so influenced by the Illuminati conspiracy theories it's almost funny. In the Illuminati Conspiracy Theories (ICT for short) the Illuminati are characterized as very powerful men who control the wealthiest banks in the world and who set out to control the world's economic policies (or some would say they already control the world's economy).

We also witness Sayid killing a very wealthy Italian gentleman (Mr. Avelino). He is probably part of the Illuminati or Illuminati like characters on Lost. He is probably connected to Widmore, Paik, Hanso and Dharma.

We are also introduced at the end of the episode to a new "List" of people. Ben has added another name to the List for Sayid to hunt down and kill.

More Illuminati references:

This season has so far been chalk full of Illuminati references. The ones that stand out for me are: Ms Hawking (Daniel's mom) wearing a black cloak and using a Foucault's Pendulum (see my avatar) to determine the location of the Island. She is of course doing this all in the basement of a church. This is very occultish activity. I believe the use of the Pendulum is a metaphorical reference to Eco's book and not meant to be interpreted literally. Plus visually it just looks really cool...

Last nights episode "Jughead" - they are speaking Latin and Juliet says that "Latin is the language of the enlightened." The Illuminati refer to themselves as the enlightened ones, not to mention that the word Illuminati is a Latin word.

I agree with the OP...

I can see alot of Illuminati imagery in this show. I believe in the second season I started to see and believe that the illuminati had something to do with the plot line of the this show. You are correct, the number 23 is also very occultic as well as the number 5. These numbers and symbols are very powerful to the Illuminati.

I will post more and try to remember my whole theory reguarding the Illuminati and LOST. Its really really late here. Also, for those who are into this conspiracy in depth you may find this interesting. I found this quote which is kind of like a little poem. Its written from R.Ayana.

"Dharma is a way of recognising the paths we have created and dancing with them in a creative way that frees one (and all) from the convolutions of the decisions we've already made. The world becomes an instrument for the artist to play, at which point harmony and discord become acts of direct will and their ramifications are instantly recognised and further altered. The Art."

This is quite interesting from refering that to Dharma. Remember Dharma is also used in Buddhism as well..

Anyways, R. Ayana is also influenced the Zeitgiest films as well. Now for those who truely knows what they are talking about reguarding the Illuminati, they know that the Zeitgiest films are merely propaganda films as well as if they seem they are not and have a good solution.

But I would be exteremly dissapointed if LOST had some hidden agenda! I highly doubt it. One thing to think about as well, is if LOST has truely has Illuminati lore within it, are they exposing? Are they leading you astray? Or Are they trying to make you accept thier new age ways?

___________

Off the subject a tad. I thought of this in the middle of the night when I woke up to talke some medicine for my cold. This actually sounds decently reasonable. Ever wonder why Richard Alpert doesn't age? Maybe, just maybe, he is the smoke monster. Maybe something, like hes one with the island. Remember when Eko died, the smoke monster appeared to be Yemi. So obviously the smoke monster can transform into humans possibly. I think it makes sense in some wierd way. This totally could be false, has there been any scenes with Alpert and the smoke monster in the same scene?

http://www.nireland.com/evangelicaltruth/images/man.jpg

Part of the initiation ceremony for Free Masonry involves putting a rope around ones neck and having the left pant leg hiked up. Not sure what the symbolism of it all is but I noticed on the preview for next week's episode we see Locke with a rope around his neck and his pant leg legged hiked up because of his broken leg. I found this to be another insinuation to the story of the Illuminati in Lost. This isn't literal imagery but a subtle tip of the hat to imagery that is linked to the Illuminati and Free Masonry.

I am starting to lean towards that if there is a struggle within the show, the struggle or war is between different factions within the Illuminati itself. Widmore vs Hawking - both are Illuminati. I think Lost is suggesting that the secret the Illuminati conspiracy is protecting is the power of the Island. Part of the role of that conspiracy is of course misdirection, red herrings and cons - to keep people from finding the true secret of the Illuminati.
100%
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://tarotraven.com/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/le-pendu-the-hanged-man.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tarotraven.com/blog2/2008/09/17/the-hanged-man/&usg=__o3cGKtuvD-GKN68UsM4GJxRrjNY=&h=622&w=360&sz=27&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=w_BpZydgNtm6LM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtarot%2Bcard%2Bhanging%2Bman%26hl%3De n

We also see the hanged man in the Tarrot Card. It's a little different from the imagery of Locke's hanging but it points to the mystical and metaphorical meaning of Locke's death by hanging. It has some very powerful imagery.
100%
But I would be exteremly dissapointed if LOST had some hidden agenda! I highly doubt it. One thing to think about as well, is if LOST has truely has Illuminati lore within it, are they exposing? Are they leading you astray? Or Are they trying to make you accept thier new age ways?

Thanks FarsightX3! I agree with you that Lost is definitely using Illuminati Lore and imagery, though I am pretty sure they are doing it from the perspective of "this stuff makes for a cool story" point of view. I don't think they have a hidden agenda to reveal the Illuminati or anything that complex. Although some people have claimed that Stanley Kubrik's death was not accidental after he released Eyes Wide Shut which also has loads of Illuminati imagery. I hope the same fate does not follow Damon and Carlton.

I don't think they have a hidden agenda to reveal the Illuminati or anything that complex. Although some people have claimed that Stanley Kubrik's death was not accidental after he released Eyes Wide Shut which also has loads of Illuminati imagery. I hope the same fate does not follow Damon and Carlton.

I hope they are careful, too. Playing with fire can get you burned, you and others. Best make sure they've got plenty of water around.

As far as some hidden Illuminati exposing agenda goes, I cant believe that for a minute.

Much of what is now regarded as "Illuminati Symbology and Imagery" has been misinterpreted and made up. Usually confusing the imagery of Masonic, Kabalistic, and other esoteric groups, the proponents of the "New World Order" as esotric/occult have had to make some huge leaps of guesswork and very thin logic to connect the two.
Granted the Weishaupt Illuminati, (as founded in the 18th century in Bavaria) DID try to infiltrate and influence the Freemasons of the time, so some symbolic conection can be made there, but the images would be Masonic in origin, NOT Illuminati. The Illuminati were essentially a group of like minded freethinking scientific types, who desired the acquisition of wealth and power through the destabilisation of the Church. As the Church was the most powerful organiation in the world at the time, it was essential for these people to remain relatively anonymous, or risk death.
Also remember that back then science was not as structured as it is now, and Elemental theories such as all things being made of Fire, Earth, Water and Air, in differing amounts, was a perfectly acceptable premise. Also the principal of "Magic Numbers" and in particular "Magic Squares" was all the rage, but could also be argud that these were simply the equivalent of modern Sudoku, or games consoles.

And Paik and Whidmore would be more likely candidates for Bildeberg membership than "Illuminati".

So while there is every possibility that some of the "presumed" imagery/symbolism may be being used, (and I think some of these DO stand out like sore thumbs) there is nothing in the show that would suggest the writers have any real agenda. For to have such an agenda, it would need to be both clear and accurate.

An evil plot of evil to take over the world? Nah, nothing like that in Lost at all. Even if the writers were in control, would could they possibly do? It's not like they succeeded much at all in the fiasco of a strike they tried to enact. So it's not like they're in it for the money or anything. No, at best all the writers' conspiracy could accomplish would be to orchestrate the illusion of an Illuminati cartel.

And aliens.

Last night I was telling my friend Nadine (who, like me, saw Damon when he was performing as a student in plays at Teaneck HS) the story of Lloyd Braun's influence in getting Lost produced. It appears by all accounts that Mr. Braun is someone whose counsel is frequently discounted, but who turns out to have been right on the money. He seems to have an astoundingly acute nose for the up-and-coming -- and not just in entertainment. Googling, I came across his reported political contributions in recent years. He contributed to Obama's presidential campaign at a time -- May 2007 -- when few would have considered him to have a serious chance -- or even knew he was running! And no, it wasn't that Mr. Braun scattered contributions over the whole field, just Obama.

How does someone have that kind of prescience...or influence? And why are his political donations (except for one PAC contribution which was probably limited by law to $1,000) in multiples of $2,300?

Robert in the Bronx

It's well established that Lloyd Braun is a time traveler himself.

..............................

How does someone have that kind of prescience...or influence? And why are his political donations (except for one PAC contribution which was probably limited by law to $1,000) in multiples of $2,300?

Robert in the Bronx

Sorry, I've got a really bad cold at the moment, so my sense of humour may be dulling...

That was a joke right????

Sandman815
As far as some hidden Illuminati exposing agenda goes, I cant believe that for a minute.


I agree Sandman815. I tend not to think that Lost is exposing any hidden Illuminati agenda, but they are definitely using using the imagery and the commercial or popular plot lines of some of the most common Illumianti theories.

I tend to think of Damon and Carlton (and all the writers on Lost) are more in line with two main characters in Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum - Jacopo Belbo and Isaac Casaubon. They are playing with the Illuminati story for fun and because it makes for a great story. Let's hope they don't succumb to the same fate as Belbo and Casaubon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%27s_Pendulum

I think every good conspiracy involves a good does of misdirection. We use the word Illuminati because it has come to represent a massive global conspiracy by those claiming to possess a knowledge, enlightenment or have been illuminated to something more powerful and beyond our comprehension. So while the real Illuminati group may be a historical group that disappeared centuries ago, thier name continues to inspire conspiracy theories. The Illuminati could very well be Freemasons, Kabalists or any other esoteric group, or even a combination. The reality is we don't know what the Illuminati are and this is what makes for great story telling.

Sorry, I've got a really bad cold at the moment, so my sense of humour may be dulling...

That was a joke right????
You can Google the campaign donations. I assume Thunderstorm knows what s/he's writing about re the time traveling. And feel better soon.

JB,
the "borrowing" they have done from various sources in staggering, and that is one of the main reasons we are all on here discussing it.
The esoteric stuff is fairly standrad fayre often seen in many films/books these days, and very little that one would deem uniquely "Illuminati" though the introduction of the Foucaluts pendulum was nice. It's kind of like Dan Brown but without all the "this all real!!, NO honestly!" stuff that lets him down.
Much of the current reference seems to be Bunyan/C.S Lewis/Joyce, with many references to the Pilgrims Progress/Regress both of which are very Christian in their basis.
It could well be as simple as the age old battle between good and evil, secular vs non secular, theology vs science, with John Locke symbolising faith and Jack symbolising logic and science.
Maybe
Though that's all probably for another thread... ;)

If it turns out that the Island is the final resting place of either:
Holy Grail
Ark of the Covenant
Jesus Tomb
or if it's Garden of Eden
I will be a bit disappointed to say the least

I wish you had believed.