Is there some kind of tie in these scenes.
Back in season 2 I believe Locke and Boone
are looking for the yellow plane from his dream.
In one of those scenes, If I remember correctly
Locke suddenly starts to limp and his legs begin
to give out. Boone asks, whats wrong. Locke
says nothing and they move on with a crippled Locke.

We (the audience) assume he is losing connection
from the island, since he can't find the plane in his
vision. Makes sense and still does.

However in this episode, when John finds the plane,
he is shot by Ethan in the leg. He is hurt, limping
holding his leg.

Could the reason his leg suddenly gave out in season 2
because he was feeling some kind of parallel world/universe
pain. Like a phantom pain. What the whispers are to the hearing
sense, the pain was felt both times when he finds the plane.

Wow, that is an AMAZING idea. I have to think about it more, but I really like it.

Season one, we see Locke's leg give out as he and Boone are heading towards the Beechcraft. Locke seems to take it as a sign that the island is displeased with him; that it's trying to take back what it's given him.

We see Locke get shot by Ethan in the high thigh. Could that injury be the cause of Locke's momentary stumbling in season one (I believe Deus Ex Machina), which lead to Boone climbing up into the plane and ultimately dying from injuries?

The parallel jumped out at me at once. I'm curious if anyone else drew a similar conclusion. Locke put a lot of faith into the island.

I think what led him to ultimately bang on the hatch glass after Boone's death, what made him think he had lost favor with the island and it was taking away his ability to walk, could be less about the island giving and taking away and more about the sequence of events in time and how what happens to the Left Behinds in the past shapes what we've seen in seasons one and two.

I agree with LostLaura! That's an amazing connection and I think that's exactly why his leg gave out in "Duex Et Machina"! Good job! :sHa_clap4:

I agree with LostLaura! That's an amazing connection and I think that's exactly why his leg gave out in "Duex Et Machina"! Good job! :sHa_clap4:
Thank you. I couldn't think of the title.
I'm going by memory, so I may be wrong with something.
But I think my memory is ok on this one.
Maybe tomorrow I will pop in season 2.

Brilliant, Merch. Someone else had the same thought. Mods should merge this with "Locke limping again..."

Not sure how to explain it, but the connection certainly occurred to me. Parallel universes/multiverses--it's possible Lost goes in that direction.

It's Season 1 Deux ex Machina. Merch started a thread on the same topic so these should be merged. He pointed out that Locke's faith in the island's powers for giving him information could be more about the time travel aspect. Events that have happened in the past are educating him on what he needs to do in the future.

I absolutely got the same impression Merch. The shot in the leg was tied to the original issue with Locke's leg in season one (with Boone). I have always thought Locke to have more sense than most give him credit for. He always says "supposed to" way too many times to be ignored... and now we may know why he says that... he's been there before. (Just a hunch)

I brought this up here earlier...
Good catch.

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=105534

I think I am thinking the same thing.
If Locke had been successful in climbing into the plane, he would have altered things. This is not allowed. Ethan shooting him was a course correction to stop him from tampering with fate.
In the past when Johns leg is hurt and Boone climbs into the plane in his place, he is injured in the fall. It is only after this takes place as was destined, that John is able to walk again.

Kind of like how Desmond had the memory of his past meeting with Daniel after it had taken place again.

Just like Des and the new memory. Thanks for the link EA, some many threads popped up after the premiere, I didn't get to half of them.

Yes, exactly. I just mentioned in another thread that it was only after Boone fell and destiny played out as planned, that Locke was suddenly able to walk again. It's like the two timelines are folded onto each other.

I initially got that impression as well, but the more I thought about it the more I think it has to do with the idea of "the island won't let you...."

"So tell me Michael...did the bullet bounce off your head, or did the gun just not go off."

The losties, regardless of what time period they are in on the island, are still the same losties that have gone through all the stuff we have watched them go through. Locke was never shot in the leg until he was exactly that age to the year, month, day, hour, and second. But the Ethan who shot him was a younger Ethan than the Ethan that infilitrated the beach camp and kidnapped Claire. The Ethan that shot Locke was the Ethan that was in that time period. The Locke that was shot is a visitor to that time period.

Yes, exactly. I just mentioned in another thread that it was only after Boone fell and destiny played out as planned, that Locke was suddenly able to walk again. It's like the two timelines are folded onto each other.
Very interesting angle. I wonder if we will get more of this in each episode?!
I like the direction they are going. Skipping in time to key points in what we
already saw.

I like the theory, but in Deus Ex Machina, wasn't Locke limping because when they tried to open the hatch using a trebuchet, part of it broke off and embedded itself in Locke's leg? And he pulled it out and couldn't feel anything in his leg.

Even if there was a reason for Locke to be limping in both episodes, does everything happen for a reason? Or is it merely a coincidence?

Even if there was a reason for Locke to be limping in both episodes, does everything happen for a reason? Or is it merely a coincidence?"Don't mistake coincidence for fate." - Mr Eko

There was something mysterious about Locke's limp in Deux Ex Machina, now that I think about it. It wasn't just the piece of the trebuchet. Locke suddenly and mysteriously couldn't walk at all, right? I thought it was because the island needed Locke, so it couldn't let Locke climb up and die in the Nigerian plane. Boone was the sacrifice that the island demanded because the island couldn't sacrifice Locke.

Or maybe it's because he was feeling phantom pain from the future, like Electromagnetic Anomaly said. It's certainly interesting, isn't it?

"Don't mistake coincidence for fate." - Mr Eko
"...unless you are watching Lost."-lockesmithe

"...unless you are watching Lost."-lockesmitheLOL :biggrin:

There was something mysterious about Locke's limp in Deux Ex Machina, now that I think about it. It wasn't just the piece of the trebuchet. Locke suddenly and mysteriously couldn't walk at all, right? I thought it was because the island needed Locke, so it couldn't let Locke climb up and die in the Nigerian plane. Boone was the sacrifice that the island demanded because the island couldn't sacrifice Locke.

Or maybe it's because he was feeling phantom pain from the future, like Electromagnetic Anomaly said. It's certainly interesting, isn't it?

Locke also has that perplexed look on his face when he hit the ground, similar to
other episodes. He has fallen a few times or run over by a boar and he always has that,
"oh crap, I hope I can still walk" worried look on his face.

It struck me right away too that Locke was limping in almost the exact same area as before when he and Boone were going to the plane!
And Ethan prevented Locke from going to the plane, because afterall that would mess things up if he did, and that's how it had to have happened "the first time around." Ethan must have recognized Locke later on when the plane crashed. They all must have known it was coming. Unless something is erasing their memories, like how Desmond and Daniel don't remember meeting.

Okay, once again, since the other thread where I explained this appears to be gone. :confused:

In "Deus Ex Machina", Locke and Boone were trying to open the Swan hatch with a trebuchet. The trebuchet broke, and a piece of it impaled Locke's leg. Boone pointed it out to Locke, who hadn't even felt it.

That night, Locke experimented with his legs: pinching them with a safety pin, then with a burning stick. He didn't feel anything.

On the way to the Beechcraft, his legs - both of them, started to fail.

Someone please explain to me how exactly this is supposed to relate to a gunshot wound in one leg.

Re: Locke Limping again...
Okay, once again, since the other thread where I explained this appears to be gone. :confused:

In "Deus Ex Machina", Locke and Boone were trying to open the Swan hatch with a trebuchet. The trebuchet broke, and a piece of it impaled Locke's leg. Boone pointed it out to Locke, who hadn't even felt it.

That night, Locke experimented with his legs: pinching them with a safety pin, then with a burning stick. He didn't feel anything.

On the way to the Beechcraft, his legs - both of them, started to fail.

Someone please explain to me how exactly this is supposed to relate to a gunshot wound in one leg.

faith :)

I had the thought that there is a quality of consciousness involved in the when of these time jumps, that there was some reason that John needed to go to the exact time and place of the crash of the beach craft, and relive in a certain way the experiences he, "first," had with Boone.

faith :)

That's not an explanation, that's a random word thrown into the discussion as a cop-out.

Re: Locke Limping again...
Someone please explain to me how exactly this is supposed to relate to a gunshot wound in one leg.


I came in here to say THIS. Locke couldn't use both legs in Deus Ex, different kind of limping.

Nothing we have seen so far has suggested that what you do in one place at one part of the timeline affects what happens on a supernatural level in the same place at another time. Juliet was drunk on the beach when the freighter exploded, when she is in that area at another time will she get drunk again?

I think it is more likely that the force that gave Locke the ability to walk was able to take that ability away to prevent him from dying in the fall like Boone did.

Doesn't it just go with the idea of Destiny? It's clear that certain things happen and can't be changed - the method by which they happen, can. Just like Charlie. Locke had to limp, had to have his leg compromised; it just happened in a different way. It goes to Faraday's string theory explanation. Locke's faith in the Island will be tested - just how it's tested may vary.

I like the theory, but in Deus Ex Machina, wasn't Locke limping because when they tried to open the hatch using a trebuchet, part of it broke off and embedded itself in Locke's leg? And he pulled it out and couldn't feel anything in his leg.

Even if there was a reason for Locke to be limping in both episodes, does everything happen for a reason? Or is it merely a coincidence?


Yeah but I believe at one point during Locke and Boone's trek to the plane, Boone points out that Locke is limping with the other leg! The one that didn't get struck with the piece of the trebuchet? This is a very interesting theory, by the way! Bravo to those that came up with this theory!

Interesting.....however I am wondering if we are not missing something else, why does it seem that all of Locke's injuries happen to his legs, you guys can't be forgetting about the hatch door coming down and crushing them and him getting Ben's help to get out of it

If people are skipping through time, and maybe HAVE been longer than they/we have been aware of it, could it be that Locke, among others, might be simply "out of time" at times. I,e., the reason he's not paralyzed on the island is because this is actually a "past" Locke that pre-dates his paralyzing accident somehow skipped and placed in this time. There seem to be rifts all along. There's something going on with Daniel now suggesting he takes his "id" with him wherever he jumps, maybe there's something in this with Locke, why he's special to the others, and why he seems to know so much about the island, or have "faith" in it.

Yeah but I believe at one point during Locke and Boone's trek to the plane, Boone points out that Locke is limping with the other leg! The one that didn't get struck with the piece of the trebuchet? This is a very interesting theory, by the way! Bravo to those that came up with this theory!

Okay, once again, I have to clarify.

The piece of the trebuchet hit Locke in the RIGHT leg.

Boone had to point it out to Locke because Locke didn't feel it.

That evening Locke experimented with his legs. First he used a safety pin - on BOTH legs. He felt nothing.

Then he put a burning stick under his right foot. Still nothing.

On the way to the Beechcraft, Boone pointed out that Locke was limping - with his LEFT leg. Locke said it was because of the piece of the trebuchet, Boone said that it was his other leg.

Eventually BOTH of Locke's legs failed.

Ethan shot Locke in the RIGHT leg. The same one hat got hit by the piece of the trebuchet.

And the piece of the trebuchet was not the CAUSE for Locke's legs failing - rather, it was an INDICATOR of the problem because it made Locke realize he had lost any feeling in his legs.

And again, someone please explain to me how this is in any way related to a gunshot wound in one leg.

This only works as a theory if you only compare the two incidents on a very superficial level, i.e. "Something is wrong with Locke's legs, and he's near the Beechcraft at one point in both instances". As soon as you start comparing the details, the whole theory crumbles.

I think it is more likely that the force that gave Locke the ability to walk was able to take that ability away to prevent him from dying in the fall like Boone did.

Okay, once again, I have to clarify.

The piece of the trebuchet hit Locke in the RIGHT leg.

Boone had to point it out to Locke because Locke didn't feel it.

That evening Locke experimented with his legs. First he used a safety pin - on BOTH legs. He felt nothing.

Then he put a burning stick under his right foot. Still nothing.

On the way to the Beechcraft, Boone pointed out that Locke was limping - with his LEFT leg. Locke said it was because of the piece of the trebuchet, Boone said that it was his other leg.

Eventually BOTH of Locke's legs failed.

Ethan shot Locke in the RIGHT leg. The same one hat got hit by the piece of the trebuchet.

And the piece of the trebuchet was not the CAUSE for Locke's legs failing - rather, it was an INDICATOR of the problem because it made Locke realize he had lost any feeling in his legs.

And again, someone please explain to me how this is in any way related to a gunshot wound in one leg.

This only works as a theory if you only compare the two incidents on a very superficial level, i.e. "Something is wrong with Locke's legs, and he's near the Beechcraft at one point in both instances". As soon as you start comparing the details, the whole theory crumbles.


It could simply be a parallel we're suppose to draw between the two incidents. In one, it appears the island or John's lack of faith in the island, causes him to lose feeling in his legs preventing him from getting in the beachcraft.

In the other, Ethan is put into a position to keep Locke from entering the drug plane. In essence, it's course correction at work, or time preventing any paradox. Locke goes in the plane, it falls, he's the one injured. His importance to the island won't let that happen.

So then his attempt to gain access to the plane in the past is diverted because not only would it change the outcome of something we've already seen; an event that ultimately led to Sayid's confrontation with Locke about the hatch and it's exposure (and so on from there...) but it could also injury Locke again; and again his importance to the island makes him fall under the protection of the island.

Scenes like that could be TPTB showing us that there's something more at work. Similar to scenes with Michael and the gun, and Jack and the bridge, but less overt.

I can buy into the "island won't let Locke climb up" version.

I can't buy into a "Ethan shooting Locke in one leg is superimposing a phantom pain onto future/past Locke via time travel and thereby causes both of his legs to fail in a way that doesn't have any resemblance to the effects of a gunshot wound" theory, however.

my favorite post so far! Im so interested in the tie ins with time jumping.

i love that locke got shot by the plane and couldnt walk around the plane earlier...so smart - so many more connections to come im sure!

This only works as a theory if you only compare the two incidents on a very superficial level, i.e. "Something is wrong with Locke's legs, and he's near the Beechcraft at one point in both instances". As soon as you start comparing the details, the whole theory crumbles.

Details, shmetails. It's a cool idea. It's a fun idea. We have 6 days and 23 hours to kill between episodes. Let's pretend they are related until Wednesday :)

Details, shmetails. It's a cool idea. It's a fun idea. We have 6 days and 23 hours to kill between episodes. Let's pretend they are related until Wednesday :)

:cool::biggrin:

No harm no foul. We will know soon enough right?

I appreciate Nevermore's attempts to keep us all on track. But I have to throw something else into the discussion of the similarities and/or interrelatedness of Locke's legs, the Nigerian plane, and the Island. It is Locke falling.

In preparation for season 5, I rewatched the series. You know how things still jump out at you, even though you've watched the episodes several times? This thing that jumped out at me is near the end of season 2, the episode "?" Locke and Eko are below the plane. We see Eko climbing the cliffs using his axe; he gets to the top and looks over and sees Yemi. Eko falls, backwards off the cliff.... just like Locke fell when he broke his back after his father pushed him out that window. Locke wakes up; he'd been dreaming this scene of Eko climbing and falling. At the time, we didn't know how Locke broke his back, so his reaction to the falling dream didn't make the same impression as if you watch it again now.

Flash forward to this season 5 episode. Locke is now climbing those same cliffs.... he falls.... he has that scared look like he doesn't know if he can use his legs.

I don't know what it means, but I think it's somehow interrelated and pertinent, if only as a major theme for Locke.