Loved the sweats. And the shaking. And really, really, really loved that Ben flushed the pills down the toilet.

It's gonna be cold turkey, Jack Baby. Mighty cold turkey.

Haha yeah I liked that Ben is sort of Jack's 'sponsor' now.

Haha yeah I liked that Ben is sort of Jack's 'sponsor' now.

Haha, yeah. Good job, Ben!

And I'm glad that Ben made shaving part of the detox :)

Haha, yeah. Good job, Ben!

And I'm glad that Ben made shaving part of the detox :)

The beard definitely had to go.

I like how Jack acted like he was gonna flush 'em anyway. He seemed to be alright at the hospital but it made me nervous to see him around all those meds. I'm guessing though that he was so focused on the task at hand that he didn't even think about the pills.

I like how Jack acted like he was gonna flush 'em anyway. He seemed to be alright at the hospital but it made me nervous to see him around all those meds. I'm guessing though that he was so focused on the task at hand that he didn't even think about the pills.

I was nervous when he was at the hospital too. I am glad in a way they broke Jack down in season 4 and had him hit rock bottom b/c it is making his character grow so much more now that he is getting clean this season. And not just because he is getting sober but also because he is becoming more of a man of faith which I love. He realizes he was wrong and is willing to do everything he can to correct his mistakes.

I'm guessing though that he was so focused on the task at hand that he didn't even think about the pills.

Yeah, it seemed that once he focused on Sayid, Jack was all business and flipped back into doctor mode. It will be good for Jack to have a pretty big task to accomplish in getting the O6 back to the island, so he can't slip back into his self-destructive phase.

Haha yeah I liked that Ben is sort of Jack's 'sponsor' now.

I like that Ben stood up for Jack when that "Other" woman make a joke about his addiction later in the episode.

Ben has his moments of humanity... though they are definitely short moments

The beard definitely had to go.

Next on the list: his car, please.

Next on the list: his car, please.

No way! The Hillbillly limo is badass. I love it! 4WD's are awesome!

I like how Jack acted like he was gonna flush 'em anyway. He seemed to be alright at the hospital but it made me nervous to see him around all those meds. I'm guessing though that he was so focused on the task at hand that he didn't even think about the pills.

totally me too! he saying that he was going to flush them is so typical of an addict not wanting to admit failure. and the hospital.....i was so nervous:eek2:. but our jack made it through!

Yeah, it seemed that once he focused on Sayid, Jack was all business and flipped back into doctor mode. It will be good for Jack to have a pretty big task to accomplish in getting the O6 back to the island, so he can't slip back into his self-destructive phase.

Jack, as usual, just needs something to fix. It's what makes him tick. I think that's part of why he went crazy after leaving the island.

Jack, as usual, just needs something to fix. It's what makes him tick. I think that's part of why he went crazy after leaving the island.

I totally agree on this. Once he has a PURPOSE, he can be all business again.....though the detox will be a B*&^.....

I totally agree on this. Once he has a PURPOSE, he can be all business again.....though the detox will be a B*&^.....

I don't agree with that at all. Jack was okay when he first returned to civilization. It wasn't until the hauntings, Kate's secrets, and Hurley getting visits from Charlie that Jack started to unravel. Add in Locke's visit from the island, finding out he died, and THEN finding out that it was all supposedly Jack's fault, and you've got a mess waiting to happen.

I've never agreed with this idea that Jack has nothing back home. That's insane. He's got a lucrative job as a top surgeon, a woman who loves him, a mother, a nephew, and he's gorgeous on top of it. The man has plenty going for him back in the real world. The difference is that now he is accepting the fact that the island is truly supernatural. I think Jack felt that once he got back home, he could ignore the fantastic things he witnessed on the island, but that's not going to happen.

Destiny is going to take hold of him whether he likes it or not.

I agree Maxum.

I was surprised that Jack didn't take any meds at the hospital. I fully anticipated it. Should be interesting to see him continue to detox, although I have a feeling it'll only be one episode, two at most, where we see the process. (Of course, detoxing off-island is not nearly as easy as it is on-island, like it was for Charlie. Jack won't have the powers of the island to help.)

I agree Maxum.

I was surprised that Jack didn't take any meds at the hospital. I fully anticipated it. Should be interesting to see him continue to detox, although I have a feeling it'll only be one episode, two at most, where we see the process. (Of course, detoxing off-island is not nearly as easy as it is on-island, like it was for Charlie. Jack won't have the powers of the island to help.)

Well, unless watching Jack detox slowly brings something to the story, I say we jettison it. The same way they showed Charlie detoxing in only a few days after years of heroin abuse, and no one really cared. I'm not really interested in that side of Jack's recovery. I'm really interested in the conversations between him and Locke. The Man of Science and the Man of Faith are the real crux of Lost's story.

He could die if he doesn't get properly detoxed -- alcohol withdrawal can lead to death.

One thing I noticed when I rewatched the episode was the Jack was sweatin' like a hog at the hospital. His dress shirt was soaked through in the back and his face was really sweaty so he's not detoxing lightly. As I said earlier, it seems that him having to focus on something positive is helping as well.

You know he's probably going to be miraculously cured by next week.

He could die if he doesn't get properly detoxed -- alcohol withdrawal can lead to death.

I know, but for time and for storytelling purposes, I don't mind if they "speed" up the process.

You know he's probably going to be miraculously cured by next week.

Lets hope. :biggrin:

I agree Maxum.

I was surprised that Jack didn't take any meds at the hospital. I fully anticipated it. Should be interesting to see him continue to detox, although I have a feeling it'll only be one episode, two at most, where we see the process. (Of course, detoxing off-island is not nearly as easy as it is on-island, like it was for Charlie. Jack won't have the powers of the island to help.)

Ah! But the island didn't allow Michael to kill himself off-island, so, it does have influence over people who are not on it. Maybe it will help speed up the recovery. ;)

I have no problem with a fast detox for Jack, just as it happened for Charlie. They need tomove the plot along.

I have to say I really liked the pills scene. Amusing, realistic, and in character for all those involved. I just hope they don't gloss over his addiction problems next week like they did with Charlie's very quick detox.

I'm looking forward to Jack vomiting profusely - a common side effect to oxycontin withdrawal.

P.S. I'm not really looking forward, just waiting for more reality on the show. ;)

With that, the scene where Jack was looking for the pills was comedic and very realistic. Heh.

Ah! But the island didn't allow Michael to kill himself off-island, so, it does have influence over people who are not on it. Maybe it will help speed up the recovery. ;)

I have no problem with a fast detox for Jack, just as it happened for Charlie. They need tomove the plot along.

that is what i've thought from the beginning. he is suffering, but not as badly as most would. plus, i've said before, it's not going to be like charlie who didn't want to give up the heroin. jack wants to be clean and he wants to be rid of his "crutch", so he's going to go at it a lot differently.

this may sound weird, but when jack was going to jump off the bridge, destiny brought that woman's car to crash right beside him. destiny....the island. although, i'm thinking if he'd jump, he wouldn't have died.

I have to say I really liked the pills scene. Amusing, realistic, and in character for all those involved. I just hope they don't gloss over his addiction problems next week like they did with Charlie's very quick detox.

Same here. I think it would add another compelling aspect to the story.

All I can say is, thank God; he's been high since the end of season 3 which was like 20 months ago. It really felt like that night at the funeral home was never going to end. The thought of Ben checking him into a motel room so he could sober up and probably keeping an eye on him the whole night is pretty funny, though. I bet Hurley will see the two of them together and say, "what, you're like BFF now?!"

The whole Ben/Jack hotel scene was awesome. Who would have ever thought that the guy caught in a net and tortured by Sayid in the Swan would be sharing a hotel room in LA with Jack three years later? Who would have thought that the leader of the Others who beat and manipulated Jack's friends would be helping him kick an addiction habit and defending his resilience?

Jack, as usual, just needs something to fix. It's what makes him tick. I think that's part of why he went crazy after leaving the island.

Agreed. That and the little issue of the island disappearing before his very eyes after John told him "wait until you see what I'm about to do". Of course Hurly confirmed this in the life raft with the "if you have any better explanation dude". This was the moment he realized a good lie was in order and it's been eating at him ever since.

I just took it as a nod from the writers that they had read various comments by fans last season about Jack and his addiction, and the writers wanted to make sure that they included some scenes that show Jack in detox. Last year there were many, many comments about Jack and his drug habit and how the show would deal with it since we all knew that they O6 were going to "go back" to the Island. People were quite vocal about not wanting the writers to brush the whole addiction problem under the rug. But the show isn't about presenting a realistic picture of addiction to drugs, so there won't (nor should there be) a long sequence of scenes showing Jack going through withdrawal. If I'm correct, the point of showing Jack detoxing at all was the writers way of saying, "We pay attention to the fans." Fans get to see SOME realism--Jack is detoxing--but the plot of the show doesn't become about showing every single detail about detoxing.

So, :thumbsup: to the writers for the this.

The whole Ben/Jack hotel scene was awesome. Who would have ever thought that the guy caught in a net and tortured by Sayid in the Swan would be sharing a hotel room in LA with Jack three years later? Who would have thought that the leader of the Others who beat and manipulated Jack's friends would be helping him kick an addiction habit and defending his resilience?

And I looked at it from the other end: Who would have thought that Jack would be working with the man who kidnapped and drugged him? Who would suspect that Jack would be forced to rely on a man he never trusted and who was never able to manipulate him on the island?

I did appreciate that Ben actually stood up for Jack against that woman. "Cut the guy some slack." Absofrigginlutely. I'd like to see how well that woman would do after crashing on an island with everyone asking you to save them since you were the only doctor, trying to find food and water, everyone asking you to be the new go-to guy, performing patch-up surgeries because a medical facility was not available, chasing bad guys, performing CPR on friends strung up in trees, being chased by smoke monsters and polar bears, being drugged and kidnapped, chained and caged, suffering through an appendicitis, treks through the jungle, burying friends, purple skies, freighter explosions, an island disappearing, and then your helicopter going down in the ocean - and then see how well SHE does! (I won't even get into being haunted by your father and survivor's guilt.)

You, know, it's funny you mention that, Maxum. I was thinking that all the characters, and a big chunk of the audience always have these high expectations of Jack. It wasn't just Christian, it's everyone else too. His mother before he went to Australia, Sarah, all the patients that came to him looking for miracles....

And from the moment he started pulling people out of wreckage, the camp has always demanded something from him, be it leadership, medical attention or something else. "Where's Jack?!!, "Get Jack!!", "Jack!". They expected him to lead them in WR, they expected him to tend to all their medical needs, they expected him to solve their problems, Locke tells him he has this big destiny, Ben expects him to go back to the island...

Not that some Losties didn't fend for themselves and take on some responsibilities, because some of them did, but the point is that they always expected Jack to be there and act. Talk about piling up responsibilities on the guy's shoulders. And there were very few "thank yous" along the way. Not to mention that if he failed, they immediately started complaining, instead of doing something constructive.

So, it felt really good for someone to say those lines, weird that they came from Ben, but good to hear them, anyway. Because, yeah, the guy deserves some slack!

You said it, CL. It's very easy to say that he didn't need to do anything, but when everyone is asking you to make the decisions, someone has to step up. In fact, they did have the scene where Hurley (or Charlie) is telling Jack about the water situation and that Jack needs to make a decision, and Jack refuses to take the responsibility. He pretty much tells Hurley that he's not the leader and doesn't want to be, and he walks away. Well, while he's gone, the camp descends into utter chaos (much like what is happening on the island now). Boone and Charlie get into a fight, and the survivors are cheering it on, and Jack finally emerges with his "Live Together/Die Alone" speech, and everyone calms down.

Ignoring the role of leader didn't work. It just created a larger mess, so he became that leader, and it was a thankless role, literally. He never got thanked, but he always got blamed. Being a leader isn't telling people what to do. People have to seek the other person out and want that person to lead, and Jack was the only person on the island where that happened. Like the scene in season one showed:

Jack: I'm not a leader.

Locke: And yet everyone treats you like one.

It will be interesting to see if anyone on the island emerges as a new leader who the other survivors follow and seek out.

What's sad and bittersweet is that Jack's (and Sayid's) entire rescue plan actually WAS working. Everyone was being ferried to the freighter, and everyone would have made it home if Ben had not killed Keamy and detonated the explosives. Think about it. Locke and Ben were staying behind, half the survivors were on the freighter, the rest were going there, and the helicopter was on the way too. Ben screwed them royally, and he didn't care: "So."

Ben has created EVERY mess, including moving the island, which has created the current time dilation problem. For a smart man, he can sure be an idiot.

What's sad and bittersweet is that Jack's (and Sayid's) entire rescue plan actually WAS working. Everyone was being ferried to the freighter, and everyone would have made it home if Ben had not killed Keamy and detonated the explosives. Think about it. Locke and Ben were staying behind, half the survivors were on the freighter, the rest were going there, and the helicopter was on the way too. Ben screwed them royally, and he didn't care: "So."

Ben has created EVERY mess, including moving the island, which has created the current time dilation problem. For a smart man, he can sure be an idiot.All that would be true if the goal were to get everyone off the Island, but the fact is that it isn't. Locke and Ben were the ones acting in the best interests of the Island and the people on it. Ben killing Keamy was an exception to that, of course. But really, if Jack had listened to reason at any point before he made "the call," the freighter would never have been an issue.

I have to disagree with the "listening to reason" part, as no one explained to Jack why he had to stay. All he ever heard, from a man whose catch phrase is "Don't tell me what to do" was:

"We were brought here for a reason"
"You're not supposed to do this"
"This place is special"

Well, boo hoo!, how is that an explanation? How can anyone expect a reasonable person to just say: "yeah, you're right, I'll stay", while everyone else is desperate to go home.

I understand that the reason can't be spelled out until later in the show, because that's the whole point of the story, the Losties' destiny, but I disagree that knowing what he knew at the time (which was A LOT less than the audience knew), Jack should have just blindly accepted Locke's (and Ben's) word for it.

The first one is a guy who said "Boone is the sacrifice the island demanded" (now, to any normal person that would sound frakking insane, imagine if someone at Starbucks told you that they sacrificed their friend to an island... you'd think it was barbaric), who had messed up every attempt they made to get off the island without a proper explanation, other than the phrases above. And the other was a guy who had recently kidnapped him, Kate and Sawyer, put them all through hell, branded a woman, etc. Also without offering any logical explanation.

It's easy for the audience to see that leaving is wrong, that the Losties are meant to be on the island, but it's not as easy for the characters that are there. I don't recall anyone telling Jack in TTLG that they wanted to stay. They all wanted to leave, their faces when they heard that voice on the phone said it all. And considering that not a single one of them, Jack included, know what the heck is going on doesn't help at all.

I'd say Locke and Ben had the island's best interest at heart, but not necessarily the people on it best interest. Locke referred to all those who died under his care as "bygones" and Ben's "so?" couldn't be more chilling. I think Ben and Locke would do anything for the island, no matter who gets hurt in the process. While Jack, before the island disappeared, couldn't care less about that weird piece of rock; all his focus was on saving his friends.

In the end, I think we're moving toward a middle ground where Locke's blind faith is not the answer and neither is Jack's cold logic. Science and Faith meeting in the middle.

I don't agree with that at all. Jack was okay when he first returned to civilization..

Jack's unraveling started back on Penny's boat. Then finding out Claire was his sister jump started it again, but he was able to maintain.
Jack tried to get past the guilt, but just couldn't handle it. All the other stuff - Christian's appearance, Kate's secret - accelerated it but Jack would have eventually cratered even if none of that happened. That's just the way he's wired.

Jack may never have received explicit explanations of why he needed to stay, but then again, Locke didn't either. The difference is that Locke had faith based on what happened to him, whereas Jack as an uber-empiricist ignored all the signs he was shown. I mean, think about it. He saw visions of his father, he was made aware of at least a couple of the major connections (Desmond and Sawyer), and he heard voices and whispers. He saw the smoke monster and learned about the time anomalies of the Island. And yet, despite all that, he ignored the fact that the Island was obviously special because of his need to "fix" the problem of the survivors being stranded.

Jack and Locke specifically and deliberately exemplify the difference between those who live their lives based on empiricism and faith respectively. To someone of faith, everything they encounter reinforces the belief that they already have. To an empiricist, even compelling evidence is discounted when a more plausible explanation is available. But the "evidence" that finally convinced Jack is how miserable his life became after the Island, combined with his visions of Christian and his visit from Bentham/Locke.

Jack may never have received explicit explanations of why he needed to stay, but then again, Locke didn't either. The difference is that Locke had faith based on what happened to him, whereas Jack as an uber-empiricist ignored all the signs he was shown. I mean, think about it. He saw visions of his father, he was made aware of at least a couple of the major connections (Desmond and Sawyer), and he heard voices and whispers. He saw the smoke monster and learned about the time anomalies of the Island. And yet, despite all that, he ignored the fact that the Island was obviously special because of his need to "fix" the problem of the survivors being stranded.

Jack and Locke specifically and deliberately exemplify the difference between those who live their lives based on empiricism and faith respectively. To someone of faith, everything they encounter reinforces the belief that they already have. To an empiricist, even compelling evidence is discounted when a more plausible explanation is available. But the "evidence" that finally convinced Jack is how miserable his life became after the Island, combined with his visions of Christian and his visit from Bentham/Locke.

Locke received plenty more information than Jack, the biggest of them all being that he could magically walk! Then constantly being told by the Other's that he's special and that he's the new leader of the Others, meeting the smoke monster and surviving, and seeing "taller, ghost" Walt and receiving instructions just prior to him killing himself. Let's not forget Locke being able to see the cabin and Jacob, who supposedly only appeared to Ben. Locke was given plenty more evidence that The Island was special than Jack ever received.

Locke never told him any of this, right up to the moment when Ben moved the Island. Ben even asked Locke if he had told Jack what they were going to do and Locke said "I tried". No he didn't!! He never once mentioned that he was going to move the Island. He just revisited the old argument about wanting Jack to remain on the Island, which we all know was not the way to go. Jack's scientific, he needs proof and to the end, Locke never gave him any.

I'm glad you mentioned the part about the smoke monster too. If I was on an Island with a smoke monster, my first and foremost feeling would be to get the heck off!! I wouldn't think, "Oh what an amazing Island, there's a weird smoke thing that kills people, I want to stay!" The smoke monster is just further evidence to get off the Island.

BTW, I LOVE your avi!!!:biglaugh:

What Todd said!

I was watching WR today and saw that amazing conversation Jack and Locke had after Locke pulled Jack from the cliff, which I'll partially quote below becuase it really is the crux of the matter:


LOCKE: Why are you out here, Jack?
JACK: I think I'm going crazy.
LOCKE: No. You're not going crazy. Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner. So, why are you out here?
JACK: I'm chasing something—someone.
LOCKE: Ah. The white rabbit. Alice in Wonderland.
JACK: Yeah, wonderland, because who I'm chasing—he's not there.
LOCKE: But you see him?
JACK: Yes. But he's not there.
LOCKE: And if I came to you and said the same thing, then what would your explanation be, as a doctor.
JACK: I'd call it a hallucination. A result of dehydration, post traumatic stress, not getting more than 2 hours of sleep a night for the past week. All of the above.
LOCKE: All right, then. You're hallucinating. But what if you're not?
JACK: Then we're all in a lot of trouble.
LOCKE: I'm an ordinary man Jack, meat and potatoes, I live in the real world. I'm not a big believer in magic. But this place is different. It's special. The others don't want to talk about it because it scares them. But we all know it. We all feel it. Is your white rabbit a hallucination? Probably. But what if everything that happened here, happened for a reason? What if this person that you're chasing is really here?
JACK: That's impossible.
LOCKE: Even if it is; let's say it's not.
JACK: Then what happens when I catch him?
LOCKE: I don't know. But I've looked into the eye of this island. And what I saw was beautiful.


That's always how it goes with Jack and Locke, isn't it?

Jack gave a reasonable explanation, as a doctor, and a very plausible one. A few days later he had to be drugged into resting because he was pushing himself to the extreme. There aren't many scientific explanations for Locke's experiences but, with the exception of Smokey, everything weird that Jack experienced had other more logical explanations.

After WR, he never saw Christian on the island again, so, his explanation was validated. The next time he interacted with Christian was when he heard him over the intercom at the Hydra, and Juliet had informed him that he was weak and dehydrated from the drugs they had given him. So, there you have it, perfectly natural to think he was hallucinating again.

As for the whispers, they knew people were kidnapping them, these people were real, Ethan was real, Jack was beat up by him and then did the beating himself. Who says these people weren't responsible for the whispers? They could hide in the jungle, you know? and they always happened to show up after a particularly chatty episode.

That leaves Smokey, and I'm totally with Todd on this one, if I were a survivor, I wouldn't give a frak about what that thing is, it uproots trees by the handful and shreds pilots to threads... Sorry, I'd want to get away from it as fast as I could.

I think Jack is not without faith, when he cured Sarah, I think he realized something special was happening, and, if Locke is right, he probably did feel the different "energy" on the island, but is that reason enough to stay? Why should he when the people who appointed him their leader just wanted to get out and get back home?

Let's say the island is special, and let's say Jack accepts this. It still doesn't explain why he has to stay, does it? I few years ago I went to Macchu Picchu, and I can tell you, I felt a different energy in that place, I think it is a special place, but I didn't think I had to stay there forever. Frankly, if someone had told me "you have to stay here forever now", my first question would still be "Why?" And if someone didn't give me a good reason, why should I believe them?

"You're not supposed to do this" just doesn't cut it, unless it's followed by a "because...."

Locke received plenty more information than Jack, the biggest of them all being that he could magically walk! Then constantly being told by the Other's that he's special and that he's the new leader of the Others, meeting the smoke monster and surviving, and seeing "taller, ghost" Walt and receiving instructions just prior to him killing himself. Let's not forget Locke being able to see the cabin and Jacob, who supposedly only appeared to Ben. Locke was given plenty more evidence that The Island was special than Jack ever received.

Locke never told him any of this, right up to the moment when Ben moved the Island. Ben even asked Locke if he had told Jack what they were going to do and Locke said "I tried". No he didn't!! He never once mentioned that he was going to move the Island. He just revisited the old argument about wanting Jack to remain on the Island, which we all know was not the way to go. Jack's scientific, he needs proof and to the end, Locke never gave him any.

I'm glad you mentioned the part about the smoke monster too. If I was on an Island with a smoke monster, my first and foremost feeling would be to get the heck off!! I wouldn't think, "Oh what an amazing Island, there's a weird smoke thing that kills people, I want to stay!" The smoke monster is just further evidence to get off the Island.
Locke did definitely get more direct experience with the Island's powers than Jack, but part of that was because his mind was open to it. Again, every time Locke experienced one of these things, it reinforced his faith, whereas Jack just found another way to deny it or rationalize it as in the important conversation that CrazyLatin007 posted above. LOST is about many things, but for me it is first and foremost about faith, because that is what the Island represents. And like faith in real life, you either have it or you don't. It's not rational, it's not science. It's the belief in something more when you have absolutely no empirical reason to.

But the next biggest theme is redemption, and Jack's redemption arc is just about to begin. In order to redeem yourself you have to have a fall, and we spent the last three seasons watching Jack fall-- ignoring the signs around him that he had a larger purpose to fulfill. But he gets it now, and that's what matters. He's had his epiphany, his revelation, hit rock bottom, whatever term you want to apply to it, which is also a truism of human behavior that is necessary most of the time. I can't wait to see what happens with Jack now that he's accepted this calling. Now he can become the leader he was REALLY meant to be.

I just took it as a nod from the writers that they had read various comments by fans last season about Jack and his addiction, and the writers wanted to make sure that they included some scenes that show Jack in detox. Last year there were many, many comments about Jack and his drug habit and how the show would deal with it since we all knew that they O6 were going to "go back" to the Island. People were quite vocal about not wanting the writers to brush the whole addiction problem under the rug. But the show isn't about presenting a realistic picture of addiction to drugs, so there won't (nor should there be) a long sequence of scenes showing Jack going through withdrawal. If I'm correct, the point of showing Jack detoxing at all was the writers way of saying, "We pay attention to the fans." Fans get to see SOME realism--Jack is detoxing--but the plot of the show doesn't become about showing every single detail about detoxing.

So, :thumbsup: to the writers for the this.
First off: Love the kittes- My Moonshine is lying behind my keyboard as I type this and she could be a relative-(she looks similar)
Anywho- no stranger to opiates thorny embrace myself, and the reality is that anyone with Jack's combined Oxy, Clonazepam, and most of all quart a day booze habit would have seizures trying to go cold turkey, maybe a really resiliant person could detox from just opiates and actually get some minimal social ineraction done, but without methadone, or some other incrementally decreased medication, there's no functioning well enough to do anything in 70 hours.
Whie I did really enjoy Ben's intolerence of Jack's intoxication in the funeral parlor, and Jack steeling himself rather than let Ben see him Jones, but if it were realistic Ben would've held onto a bottle and doled out a few pills the 1st day a couple the next and so on.

At least on 24, when Jack Bauer was a heroin junkie they ended up having someone give a few pills once he got to Mexico, which was enough to cool him out but not get him "high".

The only way it'll make any sense to me is believing the Island or Ben act like some kind spiritual/electromagnetic methadone, or endorphine reset button like the hallucinogen Ibogaine. Lord knows Linus is a Trip.:cool:

Because Cold Turkey (especially for multiple addictions) and anything but being useless and miserable are a virtual impossibility.

But Time Travel's plausible, right? :redface: spoiler test

All that would be true if the goal were to get everyone off the Island, but the fact is that it isn't.

Of course it was. The goal was ALWAYS to get everyone off the island, and that's exactly what Jack, Sayid, and everyone else was working towards. It wasn't Locke and Ben's goal. That's something completely different, but it was always the goal of the survivors.

Locke and Ben were the ones acting in the best interests of the Island and the people on it.

Uh, no they weren't. They were certainly acting on behalf of the island, but I can't say they were acting in the best interest of the people on it. I'll cut Locke some slack, but Ben was all about Ben. The man murdered God knows how many people, including his father. He is a violent man himself who seems to have no problem having violent people around him (Ethan included) to do his bidding. Locke, too, seemed okay with Boone's death as it was "necessary." How many people have died so far in the "best interest" of the island?

Ben killing Keamy was an exception to that, of course. Actually, it was the norm for Ben

But really, if Jack had listened to reason at any point before he made "the call," the freighter would never have been an issue.Jack asked many times for answers and explanations. He even cornered Locke in the jungle after the Black Rock trek to try and understand his actions, and that's when Locke told him that Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded. That is not "reasoning" with Jack. That's sounding like a crazy person.

You want to know where Locke screwed up with Jack, right up until the very last time he saw Jack? It was the fact that Locke never told Jack about his paralysis. Ever. Now, here is a spinal surgeon. A man who dealt with these types of injuries every day when he was on the mainland, and he who could really understand the miracle behind Locke's healing, and Locke told him nothing. Zilch. Nada. Even when Jack said "I don't believe in miracles," THAT was Locke's opportunity to tell Jack. He didn't.

Locke and Ben used deception and riddles to try and coax Jack. They both wanted to retain their "specialness" with the island, and they didn't want to lay all their cards on the table. The only thing Jack (and the other survivors) cared about was going home, and Jack almost pulled it off except that Ben killed Keamy which resulted in the deaths of everyone on board the freighter.

Jack's unraveling started back on Penny's boat.

No it wasn't.

Then finding out Claire was his sister jump started it again, but he was able to maintain. That didn't start it either. He felt tremendously guilty, but it wasn't what sent Jack over the edge.

Jack tried to get past the guilt, but just couldn't handle it. All the other stuff - Christian's appearance, Kate's secret - accelerated it but Jack would have eventually cratered even if none of that happened. That's just the way he's wired.Jack first asked for the drugs after seeing Christian's ghost because Jack thought he was now losing his mind. That's when things began to accelerate. Plus you have Hurley's comments about speaking to Charlie, and that Jack wasn't suppose to raise him, and Kate's lies, and you have a man heading towards a downward spiral. Initially, however, Jack was okay, but he was racked with survivor's guilt. The fact that Jack was the only member of the '06 who was trying to find the island tells me that Jack would have gone back if he could have found the island.

Of course it was. The goal was ALWAYS to get everyone off the island, and that's exactly what Jack, Sayid, and everyone else was working towards. It wasn't Locke and Ben's goal. That's something completely different, but it was always the goal of the survivors.

But it was the wrong goal, as evidenced by Jack & co.'s life off the Island, wasn't it? The major revelation of "Through the Looking Glass" was not just that Jack and Kate made it off the Island, but that LOST, as a show, as a story, isn't about getting off the Island. The writers surprised us by opening the show into something much bigger and deeper than that. We spent much of the first three seasons believing that we were watching a straightforward survival narrative, and like Jack we thought that the ultimate goal, the pot at the end of the rainbow, was RESCUE. And perhaps the survivors are still looking for rescue, but not from an Island, not back into the warm and gentle arms of so-called "civilization."

That's the biggest change in the series that has happened so slowly that even most LOST fans don't even talk about it. In the first two seasons we were engaged by the characters and survival drama as well as the mysteries and the mythology, but we weren't offered a glimpse of the bigger picture until Jack uttered "we have to go back."

Uh, no they weren't. They were certainly acting on behalf of the island, but I can't say they were acting in the best interest of the people on it. I'll cut Locke some slack, but Ben was all about Ben. The man murdered God knows how many people, including his father. He is a violent man himself who seems to have no problem having violent people around him (Ethan included) to do his bidding. Locke, too, seemed okay with Boone's death as it was "necessary." How many people have died so far in the "best interest" of the island?
Ben is a selfish and petty person. Those are his demons to overcome, and they've resulted in him doing some horrific things. But there is also a side of Ben, like Locke, who believes that protecting the Island is something that must be prioritized above all else. It became apparent when he was willing to sacrifice his future and happiness by turning the wheel, effectively banishing himself to protect the Island.

About Boone, Locke's faith that Boone's death was necessary is a metaphor for understanding causality. Causality fuels the entire science-fictional element of LOST and even bleeds over into themes of redemption and faith as well. Death is often necessary for greater good.

You want to know where Locke screwed up with Jack, right up until the very last time he saw Jack? It was the fact that Locke never told Jack about his paralysis. Ever.
I don't think for a second that Jack would have believed Locke if he had told him. OR, he would have come up with some scientific rationale for it. It would have been utterly pointless.

I've said many times before that Jack and Locke are both stubborn men with inflexible worldviews. The difference is that Locke has been right a lot more often than he's been wrong, which to me shows that faith is rewarded on the Island. Jack's going to get his chance again, though. I have a feeling he'll be a very different person when he gets back to the Island. He's been humbled, and that is the first step toward his redemption.

Locke did definitely get more direct experience with the Island's powers than Jack, but part of that was because his mind was open to it. Again, every time Locke experienced one of these things, it reinforced his faith, whereas Jack just found another way to deny it or rationalize it as in the important conversation that CrazyLatin007 posted above. LOST is about many things, but for me it is first and foremost about faith, because that is what the Island represents. And like faith in real life, you either have it or you don't. It's not rational, it's not science. It's the belief in something more when you have absolutely no empirical reason to.

But the next biggest theme is redemption, and Jack's redemption arc is just about to begin. In order to redeem yourself you have to have a fall, and we spent the last three seasons watching Jack fall-- ignoring the signs around him that he had a larger purpose to fulfill. But he gets it now, and that's what matters. He's had his epiphany, his revelation, hit rock bottom, whatever term you want to apply to it, which is also a truism of human behavior that is necessary most of the time. I can't wait to see what happens with Jack now that he's accepted this calling. Now he can become the leader he was REALLY meant to be.

Totally understand your point, and I would add that the story is also about how far do you let your faith take you and whether faith for faith's sake is that good.

Here we have Locke who has been duped more times that we can count because he believed his mom and dad, the drug farmer, and Ben. I think there's a point here somewhere about fanaticism and getting to harmful extremes because of blind faith.

And if we think about it a little, it seems there will be semi-scientific explanations for a lot of the weirdness going on. Obviously, in our real world, all the stuff presented on the show about time traveling is thoretical physics (except for consciousness TT, which is completely the writers' invention). What that means is that science will somehow be involved. Some of it will not be about a supernatural entity or an all-powerful God we have to believe in. There's a lot going on right now that has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with science.

That said, the emphasis on Destiny, and not being able to change it, and the introduction of Universal course-correction makes me think that a greater power will be a part of it as well.

But that only reinforces my belief that we are moving toward a balance at the center of the science vs. faith debate. As a Catholic, I know faith is about believing without proof, as a member of the human race, I know believing without question can lead to pretty disastrous circumstances, so, where do we stand?
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I don't think you can say Jack wouldn't have believed Locke. After all, Jack did witness a spinal miracle when Sarah was able to walk again. It's one of those things we'll never know

As for the goal discussion, here's the thing. The goal of the story is not known to the characters. so, you can't say if Jack had listened he would have known what the real goal was. Specially because that's something the writers have been keeping secret to the character from the beginning. Jack listened to Locke and Ben, many time, he just was not convinced, and what we're saying is, can you blame him?

Because I don't think he knew enough, or that the explanations he got from Ben and Locke were enough. Jack has to consider all the things those characters did, as well as, what they say and weigh all that together. To any normal person, Ben and Locke would appear insane.

True enough. I thought of that when they were arguing over the anthuriums at the Orchid... I thought, "man, to any outside observer these two guys would seem totally crazy!!!"

True enough. I thought of that when they were arguing over the anthuriums at the Orchid... I thought, "man, to any outside observer these two guys would seem totally crazy!!!"

I think the best example of how insane it all appears was Hurley trying to explain it all to Mama Reyes.... LMAO!!!

And she believed him because she knows her son, but imagine Hurley spewing that rant to someone other than his mom. As he kept going I kept laughing at how insane it all sounded.

Okay, here's the first post again:

Loved the sweats. And the shaking. And really, really, really loved that Ben flushed the pills down the toilet.

It's gonna be cold turkey, Jack Baby. Mighty cold turkey.

Back on topic, please?

Okay, here's the first post again:



Back on topic, please?


:thumbsup: Thanks, Starrox.

So, Jack sweating and with the shakes, but still able to bring Sayid back.... That was pretty awesome. Showed that even while he's detoxing, he can still take care of business!

I loved the hotel scene where Jack is looking for his pills because you just know that as soon as he found them he was going to flush them! (yea, right.). But I liked the dialogue: - Ben: I flushed them down the toilet. Jack: That's just what I was going to do. Ben: I thought so. - Not word for word, but still pretty good. I know Ben has his own agenda, but if it can help Jack detox along the way, then I'm fine with that. See, even "detox Jack" is HOT! ;)

But it was the wrong goal, as evidenced by Jack & co.'s life off the Island, wasn't it? The major revelation of "Through the Looking Glass" was not just that Jack and Kate made it off the Island, but that LOST, as a show, as a story, isn't about getting off the Island. The writers surprised us by opening the show into something much bigger and deeper than that. We spent much of the first three seasons believing that we were watching a straightforward survival narrative, and like Jack we thought that the ultimate goal, the pot at the end of the rainbow, was RESCUE. And perhaps the survivors are still looking for rescue, but not from an Island, not back into the warm and gentle arms of so-called "civilization."

That's the biggest change in the series that has happened so slowly that even most LOST fans don't even talk about it. In the first two seasons we were engaged by the characters and survival drama as well as the mysteries and the mythology, but we weren't offered a glimpse of the bigger picture until Jack uttered "we have to go back."

I agree with all of this. However, you are looking at Lost solely from the viewer perspective. We, as viewers, have far more answers than the individual characters. I don't react to the characters in that way. Jack and the rest of the survivors never had the information that Locke and Ben had, and therefore, they acted in the only way that made sense. No one in their right mind would want to stay on the island. No one. The exception, of course, is Locke and Ben who feel a kinship with the island. We, as viewers, also know that there IS something fantastical about the island (Locke's healing, Rose's healing, the smoke monster, Richard Alpert never aging (Jack hasn't even MET him), the extraordinary meetings of all the 815ers with other related people, the shack and Jacob (Jack doesn't know about that either).

My point is that it's easy to say Jack didn't do the right thing, according to the island, because of all these reasons. However, Jack is not aware of nearly half of the information that we are privy to knowing.

Ben is a selfish and petty person. Those are his demons to overcome, and they've resulted in him doing some horrific things. But there is also a side of Ben, like Locke, who believes that protecting the Island is something that must be prioritized above all else. It became apparent when he was willing to sacrifice his future and happiness by turning the wheel, effectively banishing himself to protect the Island.

About Boone, Locke's faith that Boone's death was necessary is a metaphor for understanding causality. Causality fuels the entire science-fictional element of LOST and even bleeds over into themes of redemption and faith as well. Death is often necessary for greater good. But that isn't going to endear Locke or Ben to the survivors. Again, the survivors DON'T feel the same way about the island that Locke and Ben do - at all. They want off. Even now they want off, and they don't care about island ramifications. Is that right? Probably not, but it's a normal, human reaction. Heck, I still don't know what the island is or wants, and I know more than Jack and the rest of the main characters.

I don't think for a second that Jack would have believed Locke if he had told him. OR, he would have come up with some scientific rationale for it. It would have been utterly pointless. It's not fair for you to say that Jack refuses to believe and then say that Jack doesn't deserve to have any of the information to HELP him believe because he wouldn't believe even if he knew the truth. Rose would have supported Locke's statement, and Richard Alpert had files on everyone, which probably contained Locke's life story. There were plenty of ways to tell Jack SOMETHING, and Locke did nothing. He doesn't get a pass for keeping that information to himself and all the rest of the stuff he knows or has seen.

I've said many times before that Jack and Locke are both stubborn men with inflexible worldviews. The difference is that Locke has been right a lot more often than he's been wrong, which to me shows that faith is rewarded on the Island. Jack's going to get his chance again, though. I have a feeling he'll be a very different person when he gets back to the Island. He's been humbled, and that is the first step toward his redemption.Again, you can't give Locke credit for being right when he has refused to give any information to the rest of the survivors that might have helped them believe. Even when he was dying, Boone didn't believe Locke, and he confessed all to Jack. Even THEN, Locke would not tell Jack what he had found in the jungle. Sayid had to get it out of him. Being right is all well and good, but if you've lied about what you know and kept secrets from the very people who might have helped the island, then the fault lies with the liar.

As for Jack, he does need to abandon his idea of only believing in the logical and scientific end of things, and he is starting to get there. Seeing an island disappear certainly helped. Something Locke knew he could do, but never told Jack - - AGAIN! I personally believe that Jack and Locke are suppose to help each other with their demons. Locke needs to not be so blindly fanatical about his faith, and Jack needs to stop being so stubborn about not believing that extraordinary things are possible.

Maxum I'd be happy to reply to all that but we've been asked to get back on topic. :budi:

SO back to the detox, unfortunately I think it's going to be one of those things that's just lost to the accelerated pace of these last three seasons. If this was a full 22-episode season they might be able to spend more time on it. Not to mention the whole arbitrary 70-hour time limit that's been placed on it all.

Junkie Jack didn't work for me, it was a real kick in the balls to the character Yeah I get the whole imperfect hero blah blah blah stuff (so please no one feel like they have to display their brillance to me in explaining it) but the sooner they move beyond this the better I don't need to see the guy in the Betty Ford clinic or anything I'm more interested in what his larger purpose is as I think that in the end he will be more significant the either Ben or Locke

They didn't need to do a realistic detox for jack because obviously there's no time, but that was even faker than fake. Not even shaky hands. It makes Jack a more unrealistic character though. They just gave him a fake addiction to have a way to show his fake guilt and then they gave him a fake detox so he could go back to being a fake hero. It doesn't matter that much though because it doesn't seem like Jack is really all that important this season, at least not like he seemed in the past. There's so much going on and hardly any of it concerns Jack.

And that is based on watching two episodes!! WOW!

They didn't need to do a realistic detox for jack because obviously there's no time, but that was even faker than fake. Not even shaky hands. It makes Jack a more unrealistic character though. They just gave him a fake addiction to have a way to show his fake guilt and then they gave him a fake detox so he could go back to being a fake hero. It doesn't matter that much though because it doesn't seem like Jack is really all that important this season, at least not like he seemed in the past. There's so much going on and hardly any of it concerns Jack.

Maybe the writers can just write him off the show altogether. It's not like he ever really served a purpose or anything, practically a red shirt...LOL Sorry even with the ascendancy of Ben and other characters Jack remains the central character

Well how badly was he addicted? I mean, it shows him stealing pills but do we ever learn whether he actually has a physical dependency? I don't know anything about Oxycodone so I don't know how the addiction works.

Well how badly was he addicted? I mean, it shows him stealing pills but do we ever learn whether he actually has a physical dependency? I don't know anything about Oxycodone so I don't know how the addiction works.

That's a good point. It wasn't like his addiction started the minute they left the island. If anything it's been relatively short lived so he should be able to pull it together faster.
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BTW anyone else notice that when you go to the first page of the thread the ads are for drug rehab lol thought that was kinda funny Addicted like Jack? You can get help...

BTW anyone else notice that when you go to the first page of the thread the ads are for drug rehab lol thought that was kinda funny Addicted like Jack? You can get help...


I don't know, if it's help from someone like Ben, it's almost safer to be addicted.:rolleyes: And excellent point about how deep his addiction really was.

Maxum I'd be happy to reply to all that but we've been asked to get back on topic. :budi:

Agreed.

SO back to the detox, unfortunately I think it's going to be one of those things that's just lost to the accelerated pace of these last three seasons. If this was a full 22-episode season they might be able to spend more time on it. Not to mention the whole arbitrary 70-hour time limit that's been placed on it all.

Yeah, I don't think the audience is dying to see several detox episodes. Heck, I'm a Jack fan, and I don't see a detox episode as moving the storyline along unless they incorporate Jack's sudden healing as a "gift" from the island.

I agree with you. There's too much other story to tell to waste time on it.

They didn't need to do a realistic detox for jack because obviously there's no time, but that was even faker than fake. Not even shaky hands. It makes Jack a more unrealistic character though.

Who says the detox is over? It's only been two episodes, and Jack WAS having a reaction to not taking the drugs. He was sweating profusely, he was unsteady on his feet, and he seemed slightly sluggish. I don't think the writers will incorporate a full detox/withdrawal episode, although I could be wrong, but they are at least showing SOME physical reaction from Jack.

They just gave him a fake addiction to have a way to show his fake guilt and then they gave him a fake detox so he could go back to being a fake hero. It doesn't matter that much though because it doesn't seem like Jack is really all that important this season, at least not like he seemed in the past. There's so much going on and hardly any of it concerns Jack.

Yeah, because the Shepherd clan have proven to be so unimportant in the Lost mythology so far. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because the Shepherd clan have proven to be so unimportant in the Lost mythology so far. :rolleyes:

I'm just surprised you can learn so much in just two episodes about Jack's detox and how fake and unimportant he is.:rolleyes: Someone is paying close attention because I missed all of that completely and I've watched it twice already.

I'm just surprised you can learn so much in just two episodes about Jack's detox and how fake and unimportant he is.:rolleyes: Someone is paying close attention because I missed all of that completely and I've watched it twice already.

Yeah, didn't you get the memo? Only Jack's father, sister, and nephew are important. Jack's just the keeper of the tennis shoe.

Yeah, didn't you get the memo? Only Jack's father, sister, and nephew are important. Jack's just the keeper of the tennis shoe.
:rotflmao2: This response somehow struck my funny bone.

Well how badly was he addicted? I mean, it shows him stealing pills but do we ever learn whether he actually has a physical dependency? I don't know anything about Oxycodone so I don't know how the addiction works.

If a person is legitimately using Oxy (or related drugs) to treat physical pain, they won't get addicted -- at least not as quickly. But, as far as we know, Jack was using it only for emotional pain. Plus, we know that his drug and alcohol use had a big part in why his relationship ended, why he was suspended (or on "medical leave") from his job and why he was stealing drugs from said job. That's addiction, loud and clear.

Back on topic, please?

I was reading some of the best posts I've ever read on this site about Jack vs Locke on why they should have or shouldn't have done what they did that gradually came from the original thread discussion and someone chimes in on getting back to Jack's detox. I know it's the thread starter, but it's Jack's detox. Wow, great. Should the writers show us Jack's entire detox? No, it's boring. Next topic: Jack vs Locke. Discuss.

Geesh.

If a person is legitimately using Oxy (or related drugs) to treat physical pain, they won't get addicted -- at least not as quickly.

That is so wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to start. In real life, addiction is a tragic, complex issue that you've vastly misstated. You've obviously no idea how many people stumble into addiction because they sought treatment for physical or emotional pain. The physiology of addiction doesn't distingush between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" or "physical" and "emotional" pain.
There's no need to go there because it's irrelevant to Jack's story arc.

Jack was using. His drug of choice, according to the script, was oxycodone. It could easily have been something else. As you mentioned, the S3 finale ff showed us he was using alcohol, too. The writers could have chosen any substance.
Lost is not "Intervention", the writers didn't want to go the whole 9 yards of the myriad causes and problems of addiction. The Ben-Jack exchange on the topic, for now, appears to be as far as they (the writers) want to go in that direction.
They handled Charlie's addiction much the same way. It's a creative decision, one that IMO works for the show.

Yeah, didn't you get the memo? Only Jack's father, sister, and nephew are important. Jack's just the keeper of the tennis shoe.

Oh yeah, I've been hearing that since Season 2, doesn't seem to materialize, though! :biggrin:

I agree with lostmio that the writers are handling this the same way they handled Charlie's heroin addcition, and I also agree with her that it's a creative decision that works for the show.

Let's get those crazy kids back to the island again, please!

Yeah, didn't you get the memo? Only Jack's father, sister, and nephew are important. Jack's just the keeper of the tennis shoe.

Could be his dad's white tennis shoe, which somehow is important in all this since it's been mentioned a few times.

I think they are handling Jack's detox just fine, given that we've only seen two eppys. so far, and well so far, so good. (or not so good, if you're Jack!)

That is so wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to start. In real life, addiction is a tragic, complex issue that you've vastly misstated. You've obviously no idea how many people stumble into addiction because they sought treatment for physical or emotional pain. The physiology of addiction doesn't distingush between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" or "physical" and "emotional" pain.
There's no need to go there because it's irrelevant to Jack's story arc.


Believe me -- I know the ins and outs of addiction. I'm in recovery from substance addiction, and know many, many others in recovery as well. I've been educated about addiction, I've studied addiction and I know what I'm talking about. And I'm sorry to inform you that you're wrong. If pain medication is used properly, for pain, then a person is not going to become addicted. Otherwise, everyone taking pain meds for any length of time would be come addicts. You need to understand that there's a difference between being dependent (or tolerant) and being addicted. Addiction, as you even stated, is complex and involves not only the physical aspect, but the emotional and the spiritual.

So, I'll say it again: Someone on pain medication, using it properly and not abusing it, will not become addicted. The reason some do become addicted is because they start abusing it -- even if it's done unintentionally. They become fearful of their pain returning so they take more pills than needed, or take them more often; or they find that the pills make them feel more relaxed, calmer, so they start taking them even when there's no pain. THAT'S how prescription pill users become addicts. They don't become addicts by using the medication to treat their pain.

ETA:

From the American Cancer Society:

Some people don’t want to take pain medicines because they are afraid they will become addicted. Research has shown pain medicines, if used properly, can be taken for as long as they are needed by people with cancer and they won’t become addicted. People with cancer do not take pain medication to get “high” -- they take pain medication to ease their pain. From the Canadian Virtual Hospice:

Myths About Opioids
Unfortunately, there are many myths and misunderstandings about opioids, which continue to be a barrier to adequate pain control for people. Some of these are:


“Won’t I become addicted?”

When opioids are used for pain control, addiction does not happen. The body does become more used to the medication, which will mean that the dose may need to be increased, however this is not addiction – it is called tolerance. Addiction is when there is an overwhelming preoccupation with obtaining more medication, without any medical need for it. This does not happen when opioids are used for pain control.
I mean, really. Can it be any clearer? If you're still not convinced, Google it.

Anyway, my point is that Jack began abusing the drugs because of emotional pain -- and his behavior indicates addiction.

Well, Jack could have vomited, perhaps multiple times. We've just not been shown that. He spent time in that motel with Ben, but we only saw a few minutes of that time. We saw a few minutes of Jack with Hugo's dad. We also saw only a few minutes of Jack's time in the hospital while treating Sayid. To assume that Jack ISN'T going through a more intense detox is probably more about our (the viewers) incorrect understanding of time. (Sorry, but based on this season's thrust, I just had to phrase it that way.)

I think it is safe to assume that Jack is having withdrawal symptoms. Hence Ben's comment about flushing the pills. We are shown Jack shaving (thank you, thank you, thank you TPTB) and being unsteady. We see him sweating. We see him searching for his pills because he DOES feel a need for them. But just because the writers haven't chosen to spend large amounts of screen time on the various physical aspect of detox the story doesn't necessarily mean that Jack isn't going through an enormously difficult detox. Remember that time is moving forward (at least off-Island) and we aren't being shown a minute-by-minute breakdown of each character's life.

And, if nothing else, we may see sweaty Jack again this evening. He might even vomit. And if he doesn't display symptoms on-screen over the course of the next several episodes, we should just assume that the writers are leaving them out in order to move the story along and trusting that viewers will interject the horrors of detox into the various gaps of scenes.

Well, Jack could have vomited, perhaps multiple times. We've just not been shown that. He spent time in that motel with Ben, but we only saw a few minutes of that time. We saw a few minutes of Jack with Hugo's dad. We also saw only a few minutes of Jack's time in the hospital while treating Sayid. To assume that Jack ISN'T going through a more intense detox is probably more about our (the viewers) incorrect understanding of time. (Sorry, but based on this season's thrust, I just had to phrase it that way.)

I think it is safe to assume that Jack is having withdrawal symptoms. Hence Ben's comment about flushing the pills. We are shown Jack shaving (thank you, thank you, thank you TPTB) and being unsteady. We see him sweating. We see him searching for his pills because he DOES feel a need for them. But just because the writers haven't chosen to spend large amounts of screen time on the various physical aspect of detox the story doesn't necessarily mean that Jack isn't going through an enormously difficult detox. Remember that time is moving forward (at least off-Island) and we aren't being shown a minute-by-minute breakdown of each character's life.

And, if nothing else, we may see sweaty Jack again this evening. He might even vomit. And if he doesn't display symptoms on-screen over the course of the next several episodes, we should just assume that the writers are leaving them out in order to move the story along and trusting that viewers will interject the horrors of detox into the various gaps of scenes.

Excellent post! I think you've summed up the entire discussion. Well done.:biggrin:

Pink Human - your post does explain it very well. Thanks.

I agree, and I think most of the viewers will understand the reason for the way tptb are handling Jack's detox, with a few exceptions - but it's Jack so that's to be expected.

Well, I do try to be logical. At times. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

i'm putting in my two cents now:ohmy:! like who didn't know this would happen.

now, i agree with everything you guys have said, but we have to also accept the fact that in the past the people that the island finds "important" have recovered from illnesses very quickly.

we have locke, of course.

locke again and again.

we have michael and locke not getting dead when they are shot.

jack recovering from surgery very very quickly. (ben recovering very very slowly)

and now jack detoxing very very quickly.

ben has finally found jack because the island needs all 6 to return to stop the very bad things. in order for ben to work quickly, jack needs to be on board. he's now on board, so he needs to be aware and well. his detox is happening very quickly because the island needs him now! the island needs him to convince the others to return. who's going to listen to someone sweating, vomiting and shaking all over the place?

sadly, the secondary discussion was the most interesting part of this thread... but we've been asked to stop having that one. drat.

I WILL get to the detox in a minute, but wanted to respond to someone saying that Jack would not have believed even if Locke HAD told him about the paralysis.
I agree. Jack SAW the island disappear, and still denied that it happened. He is just so stubborn.
I love him. lol

okay- Jack's addiction. I seem to recall either seeing it on a recap or an interview with Damon/Carlton that Jack became addicted because of his guilt over leaving his sister behind on the island. SO, according to them, Claire is the reason for his guilt.

I have to say also that Jack in the funeral parlor was 'spot on'. It reminded so much of my husband while he was stoned that it hurts to watch those scenes. :(

btw, my husband passed away 15 months ago 4 days after going cold turkey from his percocet and alcohol addictions. it is indeed dangerous to do it alone.

But why are we all assuming his detox was happening quickly? We didn't see much of it in the first two eps because so much was going on -- but what we did see was Jack sweaty, shaky and looking for his stash.