It seems unlikely that Des would be allowed to open the back door to see who was knocking. If anyone would do it, it would be Idman, and I don't think he would want to risk something like that. Is this a goof?

I believe they were in a time period after Inman left the Swan. At least I assumed that since Desmond answered the door.

It has to be after Inman died.

Inman = Kelvin, yeah?

I'm assuming he was already dead at that point.

Desmond said are you my replacment not our replacment. I'm assuming that Calvn is already dead.

If that's true, it's a narrow time frame. The day Inman died was also the day Flight 815 crashed. So it would have to be after the crash but before Locke and Boone discovered the hatch.

if it was after Innman died then why on earth would Desmond be wearing a chemical suit? On the day Innman died it was more than proven to Desmond that the suit was a hoax. There would be no point in ever using it again. Unless of course he was trying to scare whomever was at the door.

if it was after Innman died then why on earth would Desmond be wearing a chemical suit? On the day Innman died it was more than proven to Desmond that the suit was a hoax. There would be no point in ever using it again. Unless of course he was trying to scare whomever was at the door.

it could be when kelvin was doing his dissaperring act on Desmond. Or it could have been because Desmond would prefer to be safe then sorry. Remember when the hatch door blows off Desmond is still injecting himself with the vaccine. Its logical he would still use a suit even if he did not that one time.

I was wondering about this myself.
I first thought it was after Inman died then I started to think differently about it. If it was after Kelvin was dead why was Desmond wearing the protective suit? By that point he knew there was no danger outside the hatch. (biologically anyway).
I'm thinking it was while Kelvin was still there and he was either sleeping or out on one of his exploration trips.

ETA: sorry if this seems like a repeat of the above. The other posts weren't there when I started typing mine.

it could be when kelvin was doing his dissaperring act on Desmond. Or it could have been because Desmond would prefer to be safe then sorry. Remember when the hatch door blows off Desmond is still injecting himself with the vaccine. Its logical he would still use a suit even if he did not that one time.

That's possible. I think though that he was probably still injecting himself more out of habit than anything else and probably wouldn't have felt the need to wear the suit after he saw there was no need for one.

well, we know that Kelvin was prone to going off on lengthy jaunts around the island in his bio-suit to work on the boat while Des sat at home minding the button, so no Kelvin present seems perfectly reasonable to me even if he's not dead yet.

I was wondering about this myself.
I first thought it was after Inman died then I started to think differently about it. If it was after Kelvin was dead why was Desmond wearing the protective suit? By that point he knew there was no danger outside the hatch. (biologically anyway).
I'm thinking it was while Kelvin was still there and he was either sleeping or out on one of his exploration trips.

ETA: sorry if this seems like a repeat of the above. The other posts weren't there when I started typing mine.



That's possible. I think though that he was probably still injecting himself more out of habit than anything else and probably wouldn't have felt the need to wear the suit after he saw there was no need for one.



he was injecting himself because he was afraid of the sickness. more than likely that's also why he wore the suit even though he had once been outside. He only stopped when he met the Losties and realized theyr had been topside for 90 days and they were fine.

I just assumed it was occurring after Inman died (so after the plane crash), but before anyone discovered the hatch. The fact that Desmond is wearing the hazmat suit sort of throws a monkey wrench in it.
The fact that Des was still injecting himself when the Losties arrived I feel is more a continuity goof than anything. Who knows, maybe he only answers the door wearing the suit because it looks more imposing.

well, we know that Kelvin was prone to going off on lengthy jaunts around the island in his bio-suit to work on the boat while Des sat at home minding the button, so no Kelvin present seems perfectly reasonable to me even if he's not dead yet.

There was only suit and Inman always takes it. It must have been in a very narrow time frame, after crash but before Locke and Boone found the hatch.

It has to be after Inman died.

Agreed. Desmond did ask, "Are you MY replacement"...
Inman is dead.
Only problem is then why would Des wear the contamination suit?!
He knew it was safe after following Inman.

Possibly Inman is working on the Desmonds boat when this happens.

It has to be after Inman died.

That would put knocking on the Hatch's back door during the first 40 days after the 815 crash, because Inman was killed the day Desmond entered the numbers late which supposedly allowed 815 to enter the area of the Islands and then caused it to break apart.

It also seemed to me this must have been after Inman died. Desmond had no way of knowing if Daniel was infected or not, even if the island in the general vicinity of the hatch itself didn't seem to be contaminated. That's the only thing I can think of to reconcile all of this.

Maybe Desmond wore the suit for the same reason that Kelvin did - to keep up the cover of it being dangerous outside. If whoever was at the door wasn't "him", he could pull the "keep him scared inside pressing the button while I go escape" routine.

Maybe Desmond wore the suit for the same reason that Kelvin did - to keep up the cover of it being dangerous outside. If whoever was at the door wasn't "him", he could pull the "keep him scared inside pressing the button while I go escape" routine.

And maybe, though I'm thinking unlikely, it was just Desmond's shift to be up to enter the numbers, and Kelvin was sleeping.

And maybe, though I'm thinking unlikely, it was just Desmond's shift to be up to enter the numbers, and Kelvin was sleeping.

Or Kelvin was at the computer and Desmond happened to be awake. They were on shifts, but that does not mean they were asleep when they were not on shift. We see Kelvin and Desmond awake together painting the blast door map.

Remember, Kelvin never let Desmond go out. My gut reaction says it was the writers' way to hide Desmond's identity so we wouldn't know who answered the door until the show. (The previews always showed this snippet.)

Same for the injections - Des found out there was no real threat of contamination right before he killed Kelvin, so why keep up with the injections? Desmond even told Claire they wouldn't do any good. The opening scene for season 2 must have had the injection shot for interest. Whatever...

If I recall correctly... The day Kelvin died was the day that Desmond failed to push the button (causing the plane crash). After that, Desmond thought that he had failed in his mission to save the world and was suicidal. He remained that way until Locke was banging on the unearthed hatch. The Faraday meeting probably happened between Kelvin's death/plane crash and the Locke incident.

So that leads to a bunch of other questions including the HAZMAT suit. Specifically, why doesn't Desmond remember this meeting? It would have proven that the world outside still existed.

I have no problem with Des wearing the hazmat suit after Inman died. He was very much sleep deprived, paranoid, depressed. He could have easily convinced himself again that it was toxic outside. Also - if it was Dharma protocol to answer the door in the suit when your replacement arrived - that's reason enough.

As to why he didn't remember Daniel - well, that one's harder to reconcile. Because if Daniel's message got to future Desmond - then past Desmond should have remembered meeting Daniel at Oxford since Desmond's CT occured before Daniel met Desmond at the Hatch in Daniel's timeline. That was a significant meeting, and despite Desmond's state of mind from being sleep deprived, I have a hard time accepting that he wouldn't remember the time traveling rat and its master.

Wow, this is a great question. The general concensus seem to point to a time after Inman died and the plane crashed but before the Swan was discovered. But if that was the case, when they returned to the beach (Sawyer, Juliet etc), shouldn't the fuselage of F815 have been be there? And the survivors of the crash, the camp etc? Even when they went to the caves, there were still people left on the beach. So, where was everyone if it was in that time frame? :confused:

This is what I think happened. The Island jumped before the crash, and Inman was outside doing his thing. Faraday's talk with Desmond resulted in a chat with Kelvin Inman when he returned. This had devastating effects on Inman, who went on a little drinking binge that ended under the Swan, with him inches away from turning the failsafe key. We didn't know what pushed Inman to completely disbelieve what he was doing, to doubt if it was all real. This chat telling him of the Faraday encounter could be it.


Specifically, why doesn't Desmond remember this meeting? It would have proven that the world outside still existed.

Desmond not remembering his chat with Daniel at the Swan door (or any of their interactions in The Constant for that matter) is another issue, which I'm sure they will address - this is probably linked to Daniel and Charlotte's memory issues, and I think has to do with paradox avoidance.

But as for the timing of the chat, I watched again and thought of the same thing as EricGunn: if it was after the crash, where was the beach camp when they went back? And if it was before Inman's death, Desmond's lines don't make much sense ("Are you MY replacement?").

About Desmond's line to Faraday "Are you MY replacement?...", I simply see it as if it was the case, then Desmond would have taken the spot and left Inman there to continue the button pushing!

Exit stage left...
Eric

Pretty sure it was after Inman died. Desmond is wearing the same suit that Inman was wearing there is the tear (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=120644&fullsize=1) in the leg that clued Des into the possibility he was being played.

Which means that after Des ran back to the hatch and all hell broke loose, he pushed the button and then went back and got the suit, probably buried Inman in 108 minutes, like Inman buried Radinsky.

We don't know what happened to Desmond in that in between time. He was still taking injections, took them with him, maybe he wasn't completely convinced there wasn't something to worry about out there.

Pretty sure it was after Inman died. Desmond is wearing the same suit that Inman was wearing there is the tear (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=120644&fullsize=1) in the leg that clued Des into the possibility he was being played.

Which means that after Des ran back to the hatch and all hell broke loose, he pushed the button and then went back and got the suit, probably buried Inman in 108 minutes, like Inman buried Radinsky.

We don't know what happened to Desmond in that in between time. He was still taking injections, took them with him, maybe he wasn't completely convinced there wasn't something to worry about out there.
Good catch on the suit tear! Ok. Now the question becomes (again): where was the beach camp when they went back? And if Daniel was concerned about Sawyer going to knock on the door, then why wasn't he concerned about anybody going back to the beach? Which also begs the question: what would happen if Sawyer and Rose saw themselves there?

I think we also need to keep in mind that the Island "flashed" again right at the end of Faraday's chat with Desmond. Whatever time the LeftBehinds then went to may have been before the beach camp existed, so they wouldn't necessarily run into their other selves. Also, from Desmond's perspective, Faraday would have just vanished before his eyes. Maybe this convinced him to start injecting himself again.

LOL

This has gotten weirder by the minute...and it's just awesome!!!
Off to ponder things.........
Eric.

if it was after Innman died then why on earth would Desmond be wearing a chemical suit? On the day Innman died it was more than proven to Desmond that the suit was a hoax. There would be no point in ever using it again. Unless of course he was trying to scare whomever was at the door.

Bingo. That caught my attention as well.
100%
Ok. Now that I read through the thread... I'm also wondering why Desmond thought his replacement was somebody walking through the jungle without the same suit. Let's just say he doesn't believe the outside is contaminated yet he continues to inject himself and wear the suit. So wouldn't it be strange to see a person in street clothes pounding on his door?

I'm still trying to figure out why Des didn't open the door when Sawyer pounded on it...but did when Faraday did. :confused:

I think it had to do with timing. Desmond would have to suit up after the initial shock of hearing someone pounding on the door. That, in all, could have taken around 20 minutes of time? By the time Sawyer and the group left Desmond finally got the suit on and armed himself before opening the door.

I think it had to do with timing. Desmond would have to suit up after the initial shock of hearing someone pounding on the door. That, in all, could have taken around 20 minutes of time? By the time Sawyer and the group left Desmond finally got the suit on and armed himself before opening the door.

Ok. Good answer. That works for me. :D

Is it significant that Desmond took 30 minutes to answer the door?

Also, (possibly related) I remember Richard Alpert warning Locke that after the next "time jump," he wouldn't remember him. Maybe something like that is happening with Desmond, and that's why he doesn't remember Daniel Faraday.

I think it had to do with timing. Desmond would have to suit up after the initial shock of hearing someone pounding on the door. That, in all, could have taken around 20 minutes of time? By the time Sawyer and the group left Desmond finally got the suit on and armed himself before opening the door.I agree. And remembering back, Locke had pounded on the Hatch, which saved Desmonds life and he turned on the light in the hatch which renewed Locke's faith.

Desmond still doesn't know what to make of this but he does know that someone else is out there. Is it a Hostillie, like Kelvin has been warning him about or is it his replacement, the person that knows the answer to the Snowman riddle. Then this person disappears????

I think it had to do with timing. Desmond would have to suit up after the initial shock of hearing someone pounding on the door. That, in all, could have taken around 20 minutes of time? By the time Sawyer and the group left Desmond finally got the suit on and armed himself before opening the door.

I agree. How long was the group at the door before they went to the beach? Could Desmond have opened the door between the time the left and the time Faraday came back? He could have been getting the suit on while Sawyer was pounding and by the time he got it on and opened the door, they were gone.

I agree. And remembering back, Locke had pounded on the Hatch, which saved Desmonds life and he turned on the light in the hatch which renewed Locke's faith.

Desmond still doesn't know what to make of this but he does know that someone else is out there. Is it a Hostillie, like Kelvin has been warning him about or is it his replacement, the person that knows the answer to the Snowman riddle. Then this person disappears????

Not only did it renew Locke's faith but Desmond now knows the world is still out there. But I agree, he's still going to be on alert regardless of going outside and breathing the air without anything immediately happening. It's after this that Locke pounds on the hatch so while that act lets Des know the world still exists, he has no idea who's pounding upstairs. He probably thinks the door pounder is the same person.

And Des does ask Daniel "do I know you?" so he's got some faint memory of the event.

My vote is Daniel's visit is after Inman's death.

I'm still trying to figure out why Des didn't open the door when Sawyer pounded on it...but did when Faraday did. :confused:

I thought it was because of the paradox--Desmond wouldn't have even heard Sawyer and never would have opened the door.

So why did he open for Faraday? Because Faraday was not on the island at the time, so no paradox, even though he was alive on earth somewhere else. Right?

Well, my guess is that this was after kelvin's death. He is still wearing the suit for precaution as he is also taking the vaccine. He becomes completely aware that there is no sickness when he meets Jack and the other losties and they tell him that everybody is fine outside.
Now about the meeting with Daniel I think that Sawyer can't talk to Desmond because as Faraday says they haven't met yet and if they never met they can't meet. However Daniel can speak to Desmond because they have already met in 1996 at Oxford.

Desmond not remembering his chat with Daniel at the Swan door (or any of their interactions in The Constant for that matter) is another issue, which I'm sure they will address - this is probably linked to Daniel and Charlotte's memory issues, and I think has to do with paradox avoidance.

But as for the timing of the chat, I watched again and thought of the same thing as EricGunn: if it was after the crash, where was the beach camp when they went back? And if it was before Inman's death, Desmond's lines don't make much sense ("Are you MY replacement?").

I think that this is a huge problem that can't be simply explained away by memory loss. We see Desmond finally remembering the conversation on the boat with Penny, but why should he have forgotten that conversation--surely a disappearing man would stick out in your mind--when he could remember everything else about his time in the hatch.


About the timing thing. The only thing that I can think of is that Desmond asks Daniel if he is his replacement on behalf of Kelvin. But that wouldn't make much sense, because Desmond had not been outside prior to following Kelvin out and accidentally killing him. So it looks more like that the conversation occured after the crash. Then the main question would be: why is Desmond wearing the suit?

You guys are forgetting something very important -- the rules don't apply to Desmond, he's "uniquely and miraculously special". For everyone else on the island, if it didn't happen it can't happen. With Desmond things can apparently happen that did not happen before. So the reason Desmond did not remember this conversation when he first met Daniel is because it did not happen in the original past -- it is a minor change in the timeline that was suddenly added to Desmond's memory when it finally did happen. Sorry for not being clearer. It is a little confusing to articulate!

I think that this is a huge problem that can't be simply explained away by memory loss. We see Desmond finally remembering the conversation on the boat with Penny, but why should he have forgotten that conversation--surely a disappearing man would stick out in your mind--when he could remember everything else about his time in the hatch.


About the timing thing. The only thing that I can think of is that Desmond asks Daniel if he is his replacement on behalf of Kelvin. But that wouldn't make much sense, because Desmond had not been outside prior to following Kelvin out and accidentally killing him. So it looks more like that the conversation occured after the crash. Then the main question would be: why is Desmond wearing the suit?


because desmond was still taking the shots. he was still convinced there was a sickness out there. only when he learned 40 people had survived some 60 days up there and no one was sick did he realize it was all for nothing.

it would be like if someone told you for 3 years straight that this room inside your house had SARS in it. finally after 3 years you go in the room unprotected and don't get sick. now here's the question. the next time you go in the room do you suit up and be safe or do you say because i did not get sick one time, it must mean that its all made up and i will be fine even though you heard for 3 years straight there was sars in that room?

So the reason Desmond did not remember this conversation when he first met Daniel is because it did not happen in the original past -- it is a minor change in the timeline that was suddenly added to Desmond's memory when it finally did happen. S

Aha, You say "when it finally did happen." But that doesn't explain why he has the memory when he does, and not sooner or later. What's so special about that frame of reference?

You're right that that could be a stumbling block. Just to speculate on a possible answer, maybe whatever that 70 hour window that has opened up three years after they get off the island has something to do with it. Maybe the barrier around the island has prevented the minor time line changes from getting past and into Desmond's memory. But this "window" that will allow them to find the island again also allows the time line changes to get out.

Yes that's just wild speculation and justification!

But this "window" that will allow them to find the island again also allows the time line changes to get out. Yes that's just wild speculation and justification!

Sure, I can imagine it like a lighthouse beacon sweeping around. Still, you have to wonder how Daniel thought it'd work the way it did.

If anyone can pinpoint the timeframe that Yemi's plane took off Nigeria, that would give you the timeframe that the island is currently skipping to.

When Yemi's plane crashed was just one of the times the Island was skipping through, every purple sky event was a skip, as far as I can tell.

The 1st and 3rd timeskips are the same time. Locke sees the plane crash and gets shot...skip to richard helping him...skip back again and the engine is still smoking. This means that Dan's visit had to occur soon after the yellow plane crashed which means it was before Inman died. But as someone said Des was wearing the torn suit, so surely he would have noticed the tear then, not the day Inman died. So, is this an error?

Is it possible that Kelvin told Desmond to suit up and answer the door? Kelvin of all people would be hesitant to do that since he probably knows there are others and hostiles on the island.

Is it possible that Kelvin told Desmond to suit up and answer the door? Kelvin of all people would be hesitant to do that since he probably knows there are others and hostiles on the island.

This doesn't seem like something Kelvin would want Desmond to do. Especially since he never let him go outside.

Worth a shot, though. Right? :)

I'm guessing he was out on one of his little excursions.

Not if there's only one hazmat suit, which would probably be the only reason that Desmond hadn't gone out of the hatch before.

Not if there's only one hazmat suit, which would probably be the only reason that Desmond hadn't gone out of the hatch before.

That is what I was thinking. Plus, if there were more than one, why would Inman put on the torn suit?

And now we know why they have a writer's boot camp before they start writing.

If that's true, it's a narrow time frame. The day Inman died was also the day Flight 815 crashed. So it would have to be after the crash but before Locke and Boone discovered the hatch.

Exactly. When they flashed to a Swan Hatch that was intact, the losties were technically already on the island with themselves, just not in the same vicinity. Juliet uncovering some of the leaves and dirt on the glass top could even be what led to the flashlight striking it on Boone's poor toss to Locke, when they were out looking for Charlie and Claire.

Again, setting things up that we've already seen.
if it was after Innman died then why on earth would Desmond be wearing a chemical suit? On the day Innman died it was more than proven to Desmond that the suit was a hoax. There would be no point in ever using it again. Unless of course he was trying to scare whomever was at the door.

Desmond's been down there so long, thinking he's doing something, not going outside, with Kelvin, that his logic on what's real and not real has to be off. Pushing the button and still injecting himself with vaccine proves at that point he still doesn't know what's real and not.

That is what I was thinking. Plus, if there were more than one, why would Inman put on the torn suit?

Exactly. If Radzinsky shot himself in the head (or was shot in the head...who knows?) I think that made the other Hazmat suit unsuable. Maybe :biggrin:.

Exactly. If Radzinsky shot himself in the head (or was shot in the head...who knows?) I think that made the other Hazmat suit unsuable. Maybe :biggrin:.

Haha. I like this explanation as to why the other Hazmat suit is unusable.

The picture they have of Radzinsky over at Lostpedia is hilarious.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Radzinski.jpg

One of the rules that Faraday states is that you can't change the past. But if you go to the past, you're gonna change something. How does the universe course correct that? My guess is by only allowing the memories to be "acquired" once present time is reached by (in this case) Desmond. Whatever time Daniel came from, that was present time, whatever new memories he created, he essentially did those from the present time, hence they don't exist until the present time because he didn't create the new memories for Desmond until the present. I think I said "present" like five times in that sentence. Whatever Desmond is perceiving at the moment Daniel talks to him is outside of Desmond's original timeline, so it doesn't get added to the "string" of his memory since it didn't originally happen, it's not part of the string, it can't be changed. The memory can only be added once he reaches the point at which the rest of the "string" of his memory hasn't been cemented yet. Or the present. Can't change the past, but you can change the future. But whatever you do in the present only manifests in the present, regardless of what time you went to to do it. Boy oh boy, I gotta take a nap.

Exactly. If Radzinsky shot himself in the head (or was shot in the head...who knows?) I think that made the other Hazmat suit unsuable. Maybe :biggrin:.

If he was wearing the suit at the time. Odds are that he was not wearing the suit. He shot himself in the hatch. There is no need to wear the suit in the hatch. I assumed he was wearing his Dharma jumpsuit when he killed himself.

We know DHARMA is kind of strange anyway. Maybe to assure that there was always someone in the hatch, to push the button, they only provided one hazmat suit.

If he was wearing the suit at the time. Odds are that he was not wearing the suit. He shot himself in the hatch. There is no need to wear the suit in the hatch. I assumed he was wearing his Dharma jumpsuit when he killed himself.

Unless Kelvin attacked him when Radzinsky came back in from an outdoor expedition, maybe feeling some of the affects of locked down in the hatch twenty four seven. We don't know exactly at what point Radzinsky bought a ticket.

Or Kelvin could have attacked him as he was getting ready to leave. Heck, Radzinsky himself could have been going stir crazy for being in there so long, even with outside jaunts around the island. He could have came in, not undressed from the hazmat suit, and just stood in the living room and shot himself.

Though personally I think Inman had something to do with it. Maybe there was struggle for the gun. Wasn't there something on the blast door map or in one of those Pearl Journals, that said K acting strange, have to watch? There could have been mutual suspicion of each other that led to some sort of confrontation.

It will come out in the end that Radzinski ate the last Apollo bar. Wasn't another food drop for 6 months. Kelvin got angry.