Ben says that Widmore "changed the rules" when Keamy kills Alex. Was he refering to the rules we were told about time travel, or are these statements unrelated? Was Alex not supposed to die, therefore you can change things?

I always felt there was a "game" being played by Widmore and Ben for control of the island. This game had rules and maybe one of was that you can't harm either person's family.

I also thought "the rules" pertained to some sort of power game between Widmore and Ben, UNTIL these new episodes. Specifically Daniel talking about the rules of Time Travel. Going with the Time Loop idea, I think Ben had lived that moment before and Alex had survived. Thats why Ben was so genuinly shocked when Keamy smoked her. It wasn't "supposed to happen" (a fairly regular phrase of John's) so when it did happen the rules were changed.

Could time looping be why John always knows when it's going to start/stop raining?

I always felt there was a "game" being played by Widmore and Ben for control of the island. This game had rules and maybe one of was that you can't harm either person's family.
Also... you can't triple stamp a double stamp, no backsies, and no punching in the face. :D

Yes, and since Ben turns around and tells Widmore that he's going to kill his daughter it is that particular rule that Ben thinks has been violated. There are other things Ben could have said he would do to Widmore. He chose an eye for an eye.

I always felt there was a "game" being played by Widmore and Ben for control of the island. This game had rules and maybe one of was that you can't harm either person's family.

That's what I think too- I think they definately began a power struggle over the island at some point and created rules. My theory is that Ben and Widmore are playing something like chess- with Ben using his knowledge about the island to keep control and is including the survivors as his pawns and Widmore is doing the same with what he has. It makes sense that they would create rules against harming their families.

I think we were supposed to think that the rule that Widmore broke was that they can't hurt each others' families. It's a red herring. The Rules are the rules of time, and somehow Widmore changed those rules (much like how Desmond did as well). Ben had been through that situation before and Alex wasn't killed. I'm sure if this theory is true, it's more complicated than that and involves info we don't have yet, but I think that's the basic jist of it.

The Rules are the rules of time, and somehow Widmore changed those rules (much like how Desmond did as well). Ben had been through that situation before and Alex wasn't killed. I'm sure if this theory is true, it's more complicated than that and involves info we don't have yet, but I think that's the basic jist of it.

The possibility of Ben being in that situation before and being a time traveler would explain how he knows so much about the reactions our Losties would have and how easily and well he manipulated them all.

I think we were supposed to think that the rule that Widmore broke was that they can't hurt each others' families. It's a red herring. The Rules are the rules of time, and somehow Widmore changed those rules (much like how Desmond did as well). Ben had been through that situation before and Alex wasn't killed. I'm sure if this theory is true, it's more complicated than that and involves info we don't have yet, but I think that's the basic jist of it.


My thoughts exactly, How many times have the writers thrown us off with the "obvious" explainations

I always felt there was a "game" being played by Widmore and Ben for control of the island. This game had rules and maybe one of was that you can't harm either person's family.

I don't think it's any game, and after these most recent episodes, especially "the Lie", I'm even more certain of it. Ms Hawking speaking with Ben is a very different thing than her speaking with Desmond, IMO. There was the sense of a real ominous potential in their exchange, though I believe the danger is primarily for those of whom Ms Hawking is a part (likely the Others, as well as the Islands themselves). This is no game for them!