Watching "BCYE" again today, i came up with a theory about why Desmond suddenly woke up and could remember talking to Daniel.

After turning the failsafe key, Desmond's consciousness became sentient, it is now aware of changes that occur in his past in real time.

This time Desmond was asleep, so we didn't see him suddenly stop moving and experience the past, but if something changed in his past, he would flash to experience that moment consciously, like in the constant, leaving his physical body "idle"

So he didn't 'remember' his talk with Daniel, he experienced it in 2008 at the same time 2001+ Desmond experienced it on the island, that's why it is a new memory for him in 2008, not an old memory.

Desmond is "Special" because he has the ability to experience and remember changes in spacetime, he is aware of changes, can plot them, learn from them, and he is the only one who can.

After turning the failsafe key, Desmond's consciousness became sentient, it is now aware of changes that occur in his past in real time...So he didn't 'remember' his talk with Daniel, he experienced it in 2008 at the same time 2001+ Desmond experienced it on the island, that's why it is a new memory for him in 2008, not an old memory.

I thought the same thing, but I didn't tie it in with turning the failsafe key. Good idea.


Desmond is "Special" because he has the ability to experience and remember changes in spacetime, he is aware of changes, can plot them, learn from them, and he is the only one who can.Well, I think Daniel may have figured out how to do this indirectly. I don't think the entry in his journal about Desmond being his constant appeared until the time in his present that 1996 Desmond visited Oxford. It sure seemed to me that he was seeing it for the first time on the island.

I thought the same thing, but I didn't tie it in with turning the failsafe key. Good idea.


Well, I think Daniel may have figured out how to do this indirectly. I don't think the entry in his journal about Desmond being his constant appeared until the time in his present that 1996 Desmond visited Oxford. It sure seemed to me that he was seeing it for the first time on the island.

Love it :)

That's why Faraday has the notebook, because he can't experience the past like Desmond, he needs something solid, intangible, to connect his past to his future. He writes down information in the past into the notebook, knowing that it will be with him in the future.

His consciousness/memory unlike Desmonds, is not capable of reaching into the past.

Also Desmond can change things, the regular rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to him. He's "uniquely and miraculously special" Faradays words not mine.

Also Desmond can change things, the regular rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to him. He's "uniquely and miraculously special" Faradays words not mine.

Yeah, because he was supposed to die in the swan explosion, yet he still lives, his pre-determined path stopped at the fail safe key and now destiny has forgotten about Desmond, or rather doesn't have a plan for him.

Big question for me is, Daniel obviously knows Desmond is special, because of their encounters in time, but who else knows Desmond is special?

If you followed OGR you will know all about the "black swan"

I pretty much agree with you on this - one thing that would support the theory is that in FBYE desmond could actually remember what had happened the first time he went to widmore's office - surely that must mean that he changed the past - even in a small way. Desmond is the only living person who had Consciousness TT'ed (Minkowsky died, and i suspect that some of the whisperers on the island were CTTers who could not get back)

Desmond "No! This...I remember...this...this...all happened before! T...today...toda...ththth...thi...this happened today! This...this...th, I remember that...he said I wasn't worthy and then I...and then I...and then I came down and I...and I, I I...and I took off my tie and, and then, I lost my tie and then Penny said where was it and then...and then it started to rain and..."

Desmond is the only living person who had Consciousness TT'ed

All the rest of them are dead?

[Desmond] was supposed to die in the swan explosion, yet he still lives, his pre-determined path stopped at the fail safe key and now destiny has forgotten about Desmond, or rather doesn't have a plan for him.

I like this idea very much. And as I've written elsewhere, I can't wait for Des to show up at Ms. Hawking's bunker (in his search for Faraday's mum) and essentially stick out his tongue.

Proof Desmond can change things is that he bought the ring, he didn't buy the ring the first time, now mind you he never got around to asking Penny to marry him but that's because he was afraid that if he did and he stayed off the Island we'd all be dead, whew, thank Jacob Desmond saved our lives:biggrin:

I like this idea very much. And as I've written elsewhere, I can't wait for Des to show up at Ms. Hawking's bunker (in his search for Faraday's mum) and essentially stick out his tongue.

I wonder if he will remember her, as per my own memory loss theory

I'm betting he will as he knew her from a time travel event that happened in the past of 2008 (current) Desmond. Since 08' Desmond had experienced the 96' meeting with Hawking in his past (04') and not his future, he will remember her.

How to explain what i'm thinking, it's hard some time, not to make my ideas sound more confusing than they already are.

If Desmond 04' has a CTT event and meets Hawking, Desmond 04'+ will remember her, but Desmond 04' - will not, he will have the memory loss, because his remembering her could change the past.
100%
Proof Desmond can change things is that he bought the ring, he didn't buy the ring the first time, now mind you he never got around to asking Penny to marry him but that's because he was afraid that if he did and he stayed off the Island we'd all be dead, whew, thank Jacob Desmond saved our lives:biggrin:

I wouldn't call the ring proof really, it's minor, the Major thing is that Desmond did not marry Penny, still went to the island and still pressed the button every 108 mins for 3 years before turning the key.

That does not rule out Desmond changing the future/past/present though, i just don't think he knows how. Maybe he learns how to jump through time.

That does not rule out Desmond changing the future/past/present though, i just don't think he knows how. Maybe he learns how to jump through time.
He'd better or everyone is dead, maybe that's why he is visiting Daniels mom maybe she will tell him how to do it, isn't he gonna need some kind of device to TT? if so where does he get it?

And let's not forget, Des eventually DOES marry Penny, as they were wearing rings when we last saw them.

Desmond: I've got a ring... I can choose whatever I want.

Perhaps Mrs. Hawking was telling him that he would never marry Penny, and that the only truly great thing that he would ever do would be to push the button and turn the failsafe key, because she did not expect him to survive the failsafe key being turned. Now that we see that he has, which is why he is so miraculously special, all bets are off...:)

Yes, I absolutely agree. And I can't wait to see the look on her sour face when she sees Des has proven her wrong!

There's two things special with Desmond.

Any "new" info relayed to him in the past will ripple through into his present memory. Previously that ability began after he turned the key and in The Constant when he passed through the wormhole while in the helicopter.

It all originates from the moment that Faraday told Desmond to go to Oxford and find him. At the end of The Constant, Faraday had that note in red in his journal relayed to him from his past and Desmond was able to re-establish his future connection to Penny.

Faraday and Desmond are entangled together in their CTT/TT travels. Desmond probably can't change the past but he can use his past to make changes in the events to happen in the immediate present. He can direct which way the future plays out.

The other thing that makes Desmond special is that where everyone else gets corrected or snuffed without notice like Mr. Red Shoes or Charlie, Desmond gets a direct consultation or "time-out" with Ms. Hawking when those situations occur.

Charlie CTT'd back in Season 1.

Charlie CTT'd back in Season 1.

Uhh, i never really watched season 1, except for the pilot that i have seen like 10,000,000 times when i was sure that the clue to the end was right there,


care to expand?

after turning the failsafe key, he jumped to the future in London and he saw Charlie singing there. But Charlie died before that. If Charlies destiny is living in London at the present time wy did he die in the past ? If he died in the past how come can he be alive in Desmonds future ?

after turning the failsafe key, he jumped to the future in London and he saw Charlie singing there. But Charlie died before that. If Charlies destiny is living in London at the present time wy did he die in the past ? If he died in the past how come can
he be alive in Desmonds future ?

No, he went back to 1996.

TEM, I think you need to re-watch that episode (Flashes Before Your Eyes). Desmond is definitely returning to his past, not going to the future. I can't imagine it would make any sense (relative to the meaning of that term in Lost mythology, of course!) otherwise.:)

RICHARD:... The only way to save the Island, John, is to get your people back here--the ones who left.... you have to convince them to come back.
LOCKE: How--how am I supposed to do that?
RICHARD: You're gonna have to die, John.

Desmond is just part of the overall solution to saving everyone.
~~~
FARADAY: You're the only person who can help us because, Desmond... the rules... the rules don't apply to you. You're special. You're uniquely and miraculously special. Listen! If the helicopter somehow made it off the Island, if you got home-- Listen, I need you to listen, or people are gonna die. My name is Daniel Faraday, and right now me and everyone else you left behind--we're in serious danger. You're the only person who can help us. I need you to go back to Oxford University. Go back to where we met. I need you to go there and find my mother. Her name is--

PENNY: Are you all right?
DESMOND: (Softly) I was on the Island. It wasn't a dream, Pen. It was a memory.

Anybody Desmond has ever met on the island... since we know Desmond made it off the island alive...can use Desmond's consciousness... as a metaphorical informational wormhole from past to future. Desmond would have answered the door to any of the people he had "already" met on the island, including Sawyer, which is why Desmond said he heard banging and shouting for 20 minutes (took him some time to put on hazmat gear)...before he opened the door to Dan.

Desmond is not enslaved by time or space. I don't think the Others are either though, so though Desmond is special; he's epsecially so in the situation Daniel et al are in, but ultimately his specialness is not as unique as Daniel believes.

Richard's visit to 5 year old John was an attempt to find out when Locke begins to CTT... Like the compass, some of the objects will be given to Locke at various points in time... the ones he doesn't chose correctly tell Richard when John's "present" is.

When John sees Richard again...he will show Richard the compass and pass Richard's above message along to Richard in the past...and they will somehow orchestrate Locke leaving the island and arriving when he does.

I knew Des was miraculously special the second I saw him doing those pull ups.

Uhh, i never really watched season 1, except for the pilot that i have seen like 10,000,000 times when i was sure that the clue to the end was right there,


care to expand?

Watch RBA and ATBCHDI very closely.

Watch RBA and ATBCHDI very closely.

I haven't got access Season 1, but i am very curious about your idea.

What are the full titles for the episodes?

And can you post the reasons why you believe he CTT'd? I need some info to do some research, i'm currently trying to piece together a Grand Theory that fits my CTT, Memory loss, the island is a laboratory from the future idea.

I haven't got access Season 1, but i am very curious about your idea.

What are the full titles for the episodes?

And can you post the reasons why you believe he CTT'd? I need some info to do some research, i'm currently trying to piece together a Grand Theory that fits my CTT, Memory loss, the island is a laboratory from the future idea.

Is season one online at abc?

Void, here are the transcripts of the dialogue word for word from lostpedia ... if it helps

RBA (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Raised_by_Another_transcript)
ATBCHDI (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/All_the_Best_Cowboys_Have_Daddy_Issues_transcript)

I haven't got access Season 1, but i am very curious about your idea.

What are the full titles for the episodes?

And can you post the reasons why you believe he CTT'd? I need some info to do some research, i'm currently trying to piece together a Grand Theory that fits my CTT, Memory loss, the island is a laboratory from the future idea.

Raised By Another is the first episode focused on Claire; All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues is the one following it.

My premise is that FlashBacks are more than a narrative device, they are a part of the story. When Claire has a FlashBack, there is the opportunity to make changes to the past, and those changes have ramifications on the Island.

The clearest ramification that has to be addressed are those change which would prevent you from coming to the Island in the first place. This is a paradox - because it's the Island which causes information (including and especially emotions) to travel to the past. So if you come to the Island, you must always come to the Island (unless you have a suitable replacement) or something terrible will happen. Like Smoky.

As Raised By Another progresses, Claire is getting more and more sick. This is because she is in danger of not coming to the Island. When she's ready to sign over her baby to the couple in Australia, it's only by a course-correction of the Universe that this is averted - the pens fail, until Claire changes her mind. If she had signed over the baby, she wouldn't have gotten on Flight 815, and she'd be dead on the Island.

Finally, though, even course-correction has its limits. By the time she has the FlashBack where she can either take or reject the tickets she's getting from Malkin, her path to the Island rests solely on her Choice. I think that she rejected Malkin's offer, and she either died from a pregnancy complication, or she got Smoked.

Ethan arrives, and Charlie is distraught. Charlie says he'd do anything to save Claire, and Ethan says that there certainly is something Charlie can do. Ethan will facilitate a CTT event for Charlie, allowing him to "go back" and get a second shot at keeping Claire alive. Charlie agrees. Ethan explains that Charlie must do exactly what he did before, or he'll start to forget why he's doing what he's doing. The one kind of change Charlie is allowed to make is one of emotion. And then Charlie and Ethan go to a Banyan Tree, far enough away from camp, and Charlie hangs, and he dies.

Charlie goes back to the moment just before Claire's final flashbacks. He turns left and calls out to Claire - she's behind him. He trots on over, and this time he expresses faith in Malkin, and she takes the tix. Claire is saved, and immediately begins to feel better. Charlie's memory of Claire's death is erased.

Ethan shows up, and the loop has to be completed. He takes Charlie to the tree and Charlie hangs again. Ethan and Claire lure Jack to the Tree, after Charlie has died (which has to happen to preserve retrocausality) so he can revive the hobbit.

Evidence:
A wreath around Charlie's head as Jack revives him.
A reversed image of Charlie running through the trees, just before he finds Claire.
Ethan's dialogue in Maternity Leave: "Charlie? Oh he's fine. When we got far enough away from camp, I let him go back."

Anybody Desmond has ever met on the island... since we know Desmond made it off the island alive...can use Desmond's consciousness... as a metaphorical informational wormhole from past to future. Desmond would have answered the door to any of the people he had "already" met on the island, including Sawyer, which is why Desmond said he heard banging and shouting for 20 minutes (took him some time to put on hazmat gear)...before he opened the door to Dan.

Well, I think that while any of the leftbehinds could have used Desmond's consciousness to pass along a message to the future, they wouldn't have known what to say. Sawyer would have probably ended up with a bullet in his head, and Desmond would then have had an even more frightening "nightmare"... a memory of shooting his friend.


Desmond is not enslaved by time or space. I don't think the Others are either though, so though Desmond is special; he's epsecially so in the situation Daniel et al are in, but ultimately his specialness is not as unique as Daniel believes.

Desmond is the only one who is not truly enslaved, IMO. He's the only one who can directly change the future.


My premise is that FlashBacks are more than a narrative device, they are a part of the story. When Claire has a FlashBack, there is the opportunity to make changes to the past, and those changes have ramifications on the Island.

But what about Darlton's (and Daniel's) mantra..."You can't change the past"? I like your idea of the emotional connection between the flashbacks and the "present", but the whole time loop idea seems to go against the idea that "whatever happened, happened". It also minimizes the importance of Desmond's gift, IMO. Why would you need to worry about changing the future if you could just manipulate the past?

But what about Darlton's (and Daniel's) mantra..."You can't change the past"? I like your idea of the emotional connection between the flashbacks and the "present", but the whole time loop idea seems to go against the idea that "whatever happened, happened". It also minimizes the importance of Desmond's gift, IMO. Why would you need to worry about changing the future if you could just manipulate the past?

Darlton are liars and deceivers, so take anything they say with a grain of salt. Twerps. We shouldn't be relying on them for authority anyways, given the subversiveness (:rotflmao2:) of Lost.

However, I think the notion you can't change the past applies to PTT - physical time travel. Going back physically entails duplication, twinning. Not such a good idea, and I think that's where Chang is coming from. Go back physically and try to change something, and you just end up being a part of the causality of the event itself. Tragic.

Going back via CTT - consciousness time travel - that would have different rules, and they relate to *memory*. Go back into your own body and transmit a different emotion, and you can get someone else to make a different choice. (You can also also go back "on Island" and as long as you are not observed, you can prepare for the future you haven't yet seen, like Ben did when he found out Juliet wanted to leave the Island and he conned her into staying with that lie about Rachel having cancer again. Twerp.)

FBs and FFs probably have their own rules, too. Mostly I see the FBs pulling in emotions from the Island, without the characters being aware of what's happening. Which means they're diddling around with their pasts without their knowledge, which sounds, I dunno, incredibly dangerous.

Because *we* are observing, now, thanks to Jacob, the events we've seen *may be* the final record. I bet Jack has/will put in a fix.

Pikki are an intentional error, lest anyone think that Lost is perfect.

As for Desmond's specialness, it's incredibly important and unique. If Ben, for example, had a vision of himself stepping on Danielle's tripwire only to stand there watching as Charlie took an arrow to the neck, he would *not* have been able to step through that loop again and leap to Charlie's rescue. Desmond's future memories are probabilistic, not fixed.

Uhh, i never really watched season 1
Heathen:biggrin:
The only person who can change anything in the past present or future is Desmond, but I do think the FB's were more than just FB's, I always have.

I think Desmond's flashes of Charlie's deaths were of the past..... different versions of the past that weren't written over for Des because he is special and can potentialy remember them all.

If it happened, it happened?

Desmond is "Special" because he has the ability to experience and remember changes in spacetime, he is aware of changes, can plot them, learn from them, and he is the only one who can.


Many of the characters are "special" according to their backstories. Charlie was special (his mom), Locke was special (richard alpert). A couple more were too I think.

I'm personally inclined to think that the others were born/engineered special and desmond was "created" special thanks to the swan station. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Charlie's mom and Locke's mom both took turns in the Swan station back when they were pregnant.

Many of the characters are "special" according to their backstories. Charlie was special (his mom), Locke was special (richard alpert). A couple more were too I think.

I'm personally inclined to think that the others were born/engineered special and desmond was "created" special thanks to the swan station. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Charlie's mom and Locke's mom both took turns in the Swan station back when they were pregnant.
Charlie was special because of his musical talent, Locke was special because.... well other than him being able to walk now I don't know, Desmond is different he is "Uniquely and Miraculously special" in faraday's words, unique suggesting there is no one else like him meaning he probably got that way when he turned the fail safe because obviously no one else has done that. Locke's mom was a mouthy teenager when he was born, there is no way the DI would have allowed her to be in the Swan. I also don't think Charlies mom would have eer been in the Swan, I have no proof obviously, but it's just a guess, he was fated for the Island, no one else could have turned off the Jamming equipment, it was programmed by a musician.

Charlie was special because of his musical talent, Locke was special because.... well other than him being able to walk now I don't know, Desmond is different he is "Uniquely and Miraculously special" in faraday's words, unique suggesting there is no one else like him meaning he probably got that way when he turned the fail safe because obviously no one else has done that. Locke's mom was a mouthy teenager when he was born, there is no way the DI would have allowed her to be in the Swan.

You have no basis for saying that... for example, if the swan was DESIGNED to induce these effects in fetuses, then that's exactly who would be in the swan.

As for Locke, Alpert was asking him to identify something he already owned. This implies a consciousness that is unbound by the constraints of time, since later he'll be given a compass. This is the same effect as Desmond has been having, just to a lesser degree. Locke is also on record as predicting a sudden downpour ("remembering" what happens a minute into the future would be the best way to explain it.)



I also don't think Charlies mom would have eer been in the Swan, I have no proof obviously, but it's just a guess, he was fated for the Island, no one else could have turned off the Jamming equipment, it was programmed by a musician.

And how would Charlie's mom have had any knowlege of what he'd do 20 years later? Her declaration did not seem to be at all the normal "you're my special snowflake" sort of thing.

I personally think that Charlie will end up going back in time and influencing the code being programmed. His "discovery" of the musical code was a remembering of a future memory past. He may have also seen his mom in the past and told her that he loved her, etc.

You have no basis for saying that... for example, if the swan was DESIGNED to induce these effects in fetuses, then that's exactly who would be in the swan.

And how would Charlie's mom have had any knowlege of what he'd do 20 years later? Her declaration did not seem to be at all the normal "you're my special snowflake" sort of thing.

I personally think that Charlie will end up going back in time and influencing the code being programmed. His "discovery" of the musical code was a remembering of a future memory past. He may have also seen his mom in the past and told her that he loved her, etc.
First off you have no basis for saying what your saying either, I doubt the swan was designed to do what you're suggesting I believe it was desined to what we were told it was. Secondly I didn't say Charlie's mom knew anything, and thirdly I buy that sounds logical I speculated it when we first saw the episode, in fact I speculated that the Losties were founding member's of the DI and now with TT so largely a part of the story, well we'll just have to wait and see.

First off you have no basis for saying what your saying either, I doubt the swan was designed to do what you're suggesting I believe it was desined to what we were told it was.

Which is what? To study the psychological effects of pressing a button? Why call it The Swan? All of the names correspond to their function. The Arrow was an armory, the Orchid was a botanical station, the Hydra studied undersea life, the Flame communicates to other places (flame on the watchtower), etc.

Why is the Swan called the Swan? It's a pretty straightforward allusion to the Ugly Duckling story... transformation.



Secondly I didn't say Charlie's mom knew anything,

I am. She said it as if she knew it, just like Christian Shepherd said something very similar about Jack, and Emily Locke said about John. All of the parents know what's going to happen. They're in on it.



and thirdly I buy that sounds logical I speculated it when we first saw the episode, in fact I speculated that the Losties were founding member's of the DI and now with TT so largely a part of the story, well we'll just have to wait and see.

Yes, we will. And as members of the DI, taking a turn in the Swan station isn't exactly a stretch. :)

Demond may have gotten a super-dose and can do more than most though. It's possible that it normally ONLY affects fetuses, but Demond didn't get the normal treatment... he got the big blast.

the Orchid was a botanical station

I am. She said it as if she knew it, just like Christian Shepherd said something very similar about Jack, and Emily Locke said about John. All of the parents know what's going to happen. They're in on it.

Emily Locke and Charlies mom being in on it is a stretch, first off Emily only found John because of Cooper, that's really all I have.

The Orchid was most certainly not a botanical station, it had a green house on top while it had time travelling bunnies way beneath it.

Emily Locke and Charlies mom being in on it is a stretch, first off Emily only found John because of Cooper, that's really all I have.

*shrug* maybe so. But rather there are a ton of stretches in the story. Ben's dad was nothing special either, but he was part of Dharma. We'll see... it's my theory, not neccessarily fact.



The Orchid was most certainly not a botanical station, it had a green house on top while it had time travelling bunnies way beneath it.


It was a dual-purpose station. It had the outward purpose of studying plantlife. That's what it would be named for. the time travelling lab underneath was hidden from view.

The supposed purpose of the Swan was studying people who press buttons in isolation. It also appears to be a dual-purpose (or even tri-purpose) station. Only time will tell, and I'm sure it will eventually.

I'm not arguing to be a pain, just putting out the facts as I see them and why/how I think these came to be and are important. You're welcome to disagree. I've been wrong before and certainly will be again! :)

Roger Linus got a job through Horace... a friend helping out another obstensibly, but also to get Ben on the island no doubt.

There is something about the DI that doesn't add up... a lot of things that don't add up.

fake botanical station Orchid (fertility)....time traveling bunnies (fertility)... and somehow it relates to pregnancy (creating the messiah through science).

I think whatever the Dharma did created a loop in time that the Losties and Desmond were caught in.

Remember Desmond telling Charlie about Claire and Aaron getting on the helicopter... that happened in one of the iterations... and as Desmond says whenever he tries to save Charlie, his vision doesn't happen the same way it did. So Desmond can change things... this time Claire didn't get on the chopper with Aaron, Kate did...but can he stop the looping?

Remember Desmond telling Charlie about Claire and Aaron getting on the helicopter... that happened in one of the iterations... and as Desmond says whenever he tries to save Charlie, his vision doesn't happen the same way it did. So Desmond can change things... this time Claire didn't get on the chopper with Aaron, Kate did...but can he stop the looping?

Charlie changed that one, by writing Not Pennys Boat on his hand.