Ya think Richard has told Charlie Widmore he's "special", too? Whether he is or isn't? Could Widmore be fulfilling his "special" role for Alpert at the moment. Notice how Widmore thinks he's running things until Richard sets him straight.

Poor Locke, I think he's once again missed a chance to grasp what it really means to be "the chosen one", with that fickle bee-atch fate always lurking around! The Long Con, to me, was complete when Locke said "He's one of my people". Did you even see the hook in his mouth! Line and sinker, too...

Either that, or Locke is Jacob and in the end truly is their leader...pick your poison I suppose...(<>..<>)

I totally agree. Locke is being hustled and is nothing special. Think of how Ben just played with him. His need for a home and his need to be special are being exploited by Ben and Richard to fulfill an important purpose but that does not make Locke special.

yeah...I think Richard has been leading Charles W. to believe he will be the next leader! Young Charles probably assumes that he will become the leader of the Others one day and then Richard chooses Ben instead. It sure would explain what Widmore said to Ben in his hotel room last season, something like...."You took the Island from me..it was mine". No wonder Widmore and Ben have so much animosity b/w them.

I didn't get the impression that Richard was leading Widmore on. Richard scolded Widmore for his behavior. I would bet Widmore gets mad that he's NOT chosen the leader which is why he's so bent on getting back to the island later- to destroy it, or claim it for his own- to get rid of the people who rejected him . . .

Well, Widmore as "Jones" was ordering everybody around last week and this week and Richard seemed to have no prob with his actions until Locke mentioned Jacob. Obviously Widmore made it up to "Lord Fly" since he feels entitled to the island, and feels that Ben stole it. So I'm sure he had some authority and he eventually gained more until he got the boot. I'm sure he was "special" in some way until he wore out his welcome, as Ben did. But with Widmore being as controlling and ambitious, even cruel, as we know he is, there's no doubt that those qualities would wear thin with the Others. Widmore's too aggressive and dominant.

Come on down...Charlie Widmore!, you're the next contestant on The Time is Right Island Showcase ShowdownTM where you'll be spinning our Frozen Donkey Wheel of WoeTM for a chance at a one-way trip to the desertttttttt!!!......

And how did Ben steal it, in Widmore's eyes? I suspect that Widmore is alluding to Ben ascending to power, participating in the purge, removing Dharma and then taking over their facilities. A coup of the highest magnitude. And Widmore has stakes in the island through the DI, and these stakes might even be heightened by the fact that he can't physically return to the island. So he stays linked through the DI and even has a video conference line directly to the island. That's about all I need to show me that Widmore is in hip-deep with the DI.

As if the medical supplies on the island didn't already tell us this: Widmore Labs...(<>..<>)

So Ben and Widmore and John have or are answering the Richard. Who tells Richard what to do? And I think Jacob is a lazy answer to this question. There is something else that is the conduit for the needs of the island.

So Ben and Widmore and John have or are answering the Richard. Who tells Richard what to do? And I think Jacob is a lazy answer to this question. There is something else that is the conduit for the needs of the island.

Alot of people are of the opinion that Jacob is a con job and that Ben put on a little parlor trick/show for Locke in the cabin that night, but I'm not one of them. When I look at what happened in the cabin that night, alot of things seem to fall into place for me as far as Jacob is concerned. To wit:

Ben tells Locke no flashlights because, "believe it or not John, he hates technology even more than you do". That's probably another Ben lie. Ben's not afraid of offending Jacob with technology, Ben is afraid Jacob will use the power to stage an uprising of sorts. This is why Ben has him in the cabin in the dark territories and the circle of ash around the cabin. The lack of power keeps Jacob subdued and the ash apparently a) keeps the cabin from being able to move around or b) keeps him from communicating with the other incorporeals on the island, my guess being The Whispers.

Now, when Locke turns on the flashlight, Ben gets startled and drops and breaks the lantern. Jacob takes the power from the flashlight and uses the power to back time up around the lantern making the fire back-up into the lantern and restoring the lantern to it's original unbroken state! Which we see when Ben hangs the lantern back up on the hook whole and intact as he and Locke exit the cabin.

Cut to Hurley walking up on the cabin. We see a light on inside the cabin and Christian rocking in the chair. The minute they're aware of Hurley the light goes out and Christian stops rocking. So to me, we've already seen this with the lantern. Jacob, with the help of the green-eyed stranger who is furnishing light/energy is apparently shifting time around Christian to restore him back to a time before he was dead, in effect resurrecting Christian. Once Jacob is able to get some energy, he is able to do that voodoo that he do like nobody else do.

And note when Locke and Ben get to where the cabin was. The ash line has degraded/been swept away probably by the green eyed stranger. You can tell by their looks and the lack of a cabin being on the spot anymore that the line degrading down to ground level was bad. Remember how high the ash was piled when we first saw it? So this act of removing the ash probably allowed the cabin to move freely since it has now settled on a different part of the island.

So in summary, I think Jacob has the ability to shift time himself, but I'm not sure if it is his innate ability or if it works in conjunction with the cabin. After all, the "blueprints" that Horace had for the cabin looked like schematics just as much as they looked like building plans. Horace probably built the cabin as an experiment knowing that he could make it interact with the island's "strange and unusual properties".

After all, didn't H.G. Wells, in his An Outline of History state that Homo Sapiens as a race have only existed for 30,000 years and that before it's all over might find themselves to be masters of time and space itself?

Sooooo.....based on what I've seen, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it I guess...(<>..<>)

I confess that I am completely at a loss as to what's really going on with the cabin. I also thought that Jacob reacted the the light from the flashlight...have all along. Something happened in that scene that allowed Jacob to physically push Ben back against the wall. Could it have been the fire/flames? I don't know....it sounds crazy but there usually is a flame, whether from a lantern or camp fire, when Jacob (or apparition, Christian) is around or mentioned.

I gotta' say that I think Locke is special. I think it was gupwalla that translated what Juliet told the two young others Jones/Cunninham. Translation from Latin spoken by Juliet was, " He whom you are seeing is the highest of you." They were facing Locke when she said this....which leads one to believe that she was telling them that they were looking at their leader.

Not sure yet what to think about Widmore and the island. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want an island that has a hydrogen bomb buried under it. lol.....

Alot of people are of the opinion that Jacob is a con job and that Ben put on a little parlor trick/show for Locke in the cabin that night, but I'm not one of them. When I look at what happened in the cabin that night, alot of things seem to fall into place for me as far as Jacob is concerned. To wit:

Ben tells Locke no flashlights because, "believe it or not John, he hates technology even more than you do". That's probably another Ben lie. Ben's not afraid of offending Jacob with technology, Ben is afraid Jacob will use the power to stage an uprising of sorts. This is why Ben has him in the cabin in the dark territories and the circle of ash around the cabin. The lack of power keeps Jacob subdued and the ash apparently a) keeps the cabin from being able to move around or b) keeps him from communicating with the other incorporeals on the island, my guess being The Whispers.

Now, when Locke turns on the flashlight, Ben gets startled and drops and breaks the lantern. Jacob takes the power from the flashlight and uses the power to back time up around the lantern making the fire back-up into the lantern and restoring the lantern to it's original unbroken state! Which we see when Ben hangs the lantern back up on the hook whole and intact as he and Locke exit the cabin.

Cut to Hurley walking up on the cabin. We see a light on inside the cabin and Christian rocking in the chair. The minute they're aware of Hurley the light goes out and Christian stops rocking. So to me, we've already seen this with the lantern. Jacob, with the help of the green-eyed stranger who is furnishing light/energy is apparently shifting time around Christian to restore him back to a time before he was dead, in effect resurrecting Christian. Once Jacob is able to get some energy, he is able to do that voodoo that he do like nobody else do.

And note when Locke and Ben get to where the cabin was. The ash line has degraded/been swept away probably by the green eyed stranger. You can tell by their looks and the lack of a cabin being on the spot anymore that the line degrading down to ground level was bad. Remember how high the ash was piled when we first saw it? So this act of removing the ash probably allowed the cabin to move freely since it has now settled on a different part of the island.

So in summary, I think Jacob has the ability to shift time himself, but I'm not sure if it is his innate ability or if it works in conjunction with the cabin. After all, the "blueprints" that Horace had for the cabin looked like schematics just as much as they looked like building plans. Horace probably built the cabin as an experiment knowing that he could make it interact with the island's "strange and unusual properties".

After all, didn't H.G. Wells, in his An Outline of History state that Homo Sapiens as a race have only existed for 30,000 years and that before it's all over might find itself to become masters of time and space?

Sooooo.....based on what I've seen, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it I guess...(<>..<>)

First off, I really enjoy your posts I see you in many threads of interest [to me]. I just wanted to put that out there.

As for the Cabin itself, well, I'm with the guy above my post as "I confess that I am completely at a loss as to what's really going on with the cabin" but I have to admit I had forgotten some moments in the Cabin that you brought up with the lights and stuff.

I can see people believe Jacob is a con job, but from what I've seen I would say if that's the case it would have to be someone Richard made up, not Ben. I do not believe that's the case though.

Well lets see, who is on the "special" list:

Locke- Can walk again on the island, has specail connection to it, yeah, pretty special.

Walt- So Special the Others can't even handle him!!! Extra Special!

Ben- Island wouldn't heal him, needed a spinal surgeon, not that special.

So what your saying UAC is that Richard pulled a long con on Ben (who actually dosen't seem special enough to be the leader of the others) to get him to be the on to turn the donkey wheel and never be able to come back. He really isn't that special so maybe the others or the island wouldn't miss him? Maybe Richard conned him into doing it to make room for Locke who really is special?
This is an intresting idea. I haven't seen anything Special about Widmore so far, maybe there never was. Seems like the One with the biggest Gifts was the one they were all too quick to get rid of Walt. You'd think he would have been the one they wanted to keep!

Well lets see, who is on the "special" list:

Locke- Can walk again on the island, has specail connection to it, yeah, pretty special.

Walt- So Special the Others can't even handle him!!! Extra Special!

Ben- Island wouldn't heal him, needed a spinal surgeon, not that special.

So what your saying UAC is that Richard pulled a long con on Ben (who actually dosen't seem special enough to be the leader of the others) to get him to be the on to turn the donkey wheel and never be able to come back. He really isn't that special so maybe the others or the island wouldn't miss him? Maybe Richard conned him into doing it to make room for Locke who really is special?
This is an intresting idea. I haven't seen anything Special about Widmore so far, maybe there never was. Seems like the One with the biggest Gifts was the one they were all too quick to get rid of Walt. You'd think he would have been the one they wanted to keep!

From what I understand from the Lost: Missing Pieces episode Room 23, Jacob wanted him. It was Juliet who tried to convince Ben that he should go back to Michael, since the others were scared of him. Ben said, "Jacob wanted him here. He's important. He's special."

But Ben ended up using Walt as bait to get Michael to bring Jack and the others to him. He needed Jack to perform his surgery. Ben put himself and his needs above the island/Jacob. Big mistake! He didn't have faith in the island. Maybe he never did. It's no wonder he was replaced.

From what I understand from the Lost: Missing Pieces episode Room 23, Jacob wanted him. It was Juliet who tried to convince Ben that he should go back to Michael, since the others were scared of him. Ben said, "Jacob wanted him here. He's important. He's special."

But Ben ended up using Walt as bait to get Michael to bring Jack and the others to him. He needed Jack to perform his surgery. Ben put himself and his needs above the island/Jacob. Big mistake! He didn't have faith in the island. Maybe he never did. It's no wonder he was replaced.

Nice piece of info! No wonder Jacob wanted Ben to turn the Wheel, Well that's what Ben said and we all know he isn't quite truthful:cool::)

yeah...I think Richard has been leading Charles W. to believe he will be the next leader! Young Charles probably assumes that he will become the leader of the Others one day and then Richard chooses Ben instead. It sure would explain what Widmore said to Ben in his hotel room last season, something like...."You took the Island from me..it was mine". No wonder Widmore and Ben have so much animosity b/w them.
Yeah, this is exactly my take after this ep. Richard said something along the lines of, "there is a long process for selecting our leadership, which begins at a very young age." It appears that at the very least Widmore believes he's on the fast track, whether Richard sees it that way or not. 20 years on, when he's 40, he's probably the leading contender when Richard comes across young Ben talking to his dead mother, and the "boy" ends up usurping the position that Widmore was convinced he was entitled to. To me, that fits perfectly with everything we've seen.

Well, Widmore as "Jones" was ordering everybody around last week and this week and Richard seemed to have no prob with his actions until Locke mentioned Jacob. Obviously Widmore made it up to "Lord Fly" since he feels entitled to the island, and feels that Ben stole it. So I'm sure he had some authority and he eventually gained more until he got the boot. I'm sure he was "special" in some way until he wore out his welcome, as Ben did. But with Widmore being as controlling and ambitious, even cruel, as we know he is, there's no doubt that those qualities would wear thin with the Others. Widmore's too aggressive and dominant.

Come on down...Charlie Widmore!, you're the next contestant on The Time is Right Island Showcase ShowdownTM where you'll be spinning our Frozen Donkey Wheel of WoeTM for a chance at a one-way trip to the desertttttttt!!!......

And how did Ben steal it, in Widmore's eyes? I suspect that Widmore is alluding to Ben ascending to power, participating in the purge, removing Dharma and then taking over their facilities. A coup of the highest magnitude. And Widmore has stakes in the island through the DI, and these stakes might even be heightened by the fact that he can't physically return to the island. So he stays linked through the DI and even has a video conference line directly to the island. That's about all I need to show me that Widmore is in hip-deep with the DI.

As if the medical supplies on the island didn't already tell us this: Widmore Labs...(<>..<>)


Widmore seems like a cast out from Richard and his others. Wanting to ascend to the leadership role, but not being special in the way they need, like you said. He's too aggressive and dominant, even mean at times.

He reacquires a stake in the island through the DI. The purge could have even been his idea. The Tempest gas could have been funded for use against the natives. Ben, at this point, could have even been an agent of his. Where Widmore thinks he has an ally in Ben in helping pull this off, so Widmore can reassert himself onto the island, probably not knowing that Ben had a previous relationship going with Richard. And he bought more into what he was saying than Charles.

That would cause a bit of contention between Ben and Wid, if Ben in essence double crossed him.

Interesting idea's on Jacob. Especially the use of the flashlight energy causing ethereal Jacob to whip into a frenzy. It did seem that way when it aired.

My take on Jacob differs from a lot of what I've read though. From a different post of mine in another thread:

And Richard's superior, at the time could be Jacob. An alive, in the flesh Jacob, who could possibly be like Locke in season one, where he has a special commune with the island.

Also like Locke, maybe there came a point when Jacob had to die in order to protect the island, leaving him in the incarnation we first get a glimpse at with Ben. No reason why Jacob has to be dead in 1954. Plus, there's no cabin in 1954. Horace built it.

Which leads me to think that the DI or someone from that time period, imprisoned the spirit of Jacob in the cabin. That's another thread tho...

I think Jacob is the voice of the island. Or was. He most likely was the first. Even if he did die, like Locke (and Christian, but we'll get to him) and was a free roaming apparition, when the DI comes along and Horace builds his cabin, Jacob got imprisoned.

Whoever did that, whenever that happened, they wanted to commune with the island, but could not themselves. They most likely couldn't even see Jacob in the same way that Ben did, but wanted him in essence to be under thumb. To me, the action of imprisoning Jacob screams Widmore.

Widmore, cast out by Richard and the other others, re-stakes himself in the island, but in order to be in full control of it, he needs Jacob under control, but also someone who has the potential to communicate with him. He forges a relationship with Ben, possibly on this basis. So Ben can serve as Widmore's conduit to Jacob, seeing as Wid isn't special enough to see the man himself.

Widmore needs to know what the island is saying, in order to keep it under control.

Whoever or however Jacob was freed, I think that's it, he's gone. Gone from the point of the story from 2005, when Christian is seen sitting in the cabin. Christian became the interim voice of the island. I think it's the island working through these people. The island was working through Jacob, then got trapped in Jacob's body by the cabin and the ash, a possibly Widmore scheme.

The island, free from constraints, can use any dead body as it's voice. Since the cabin's been moving, since the ring of ash has degraded to the point it can do that, we've seen manifestations of Charlie, Christian, Ana-Lucia, Libby for point two seconds. There are no more constraints that binds it to one person.

No more constraints that keep it locked into one person, imo.

I think we'll see Locke return, in a coffin, and like Christian and Jacob (though he was confined to the cabin when we saw last) he'll be the voice of the island. I think the island is an entity in itself and the Jacob, while important to the island and it's history, is not as important as what he's the voice of.

The cabin moving around definitely seems like it's tied to Jacob, or whoever's in it. Less cabin and more spiritual/ethereal in nature at this point.

The Widmore/Ben scenerio and the purge have been something I"ve been thinking about recently and with this info from Jughead, with Richard, I finally have a scenerio here that I like and thinks work. It was a really good episode.

Wow did that get long. Spoilered for length.

I'm not exactly sure how integral the cabin is to the process at this point, only that it appeared to be a prison for Jacob. I've never been able to accept the island as a sentient being, but I think it is alluded to on some levels. When Tom Friendly tells Michael the "island" won't let him die, I think that's an "island" set-up line with more scientific/psuedo-scientific explanations. Remember how they kept finding ways to work The Flash into the show? I think this is telling us something about vibrational rates maybe. Everything vibrates, and it's as if Michael, etc. might be vibrating at the island rate and not our rate. The phrase I use for it is "They're on island time not our time". Or "of" island time, but not of our time anymore is seems. Still got things to work out there, but I still think it could relate to vibrationj/polarity/resonance etc.

I had a thought. When thinking about Michael I got to wondering if when Jacob said "Help me", he meant to help him to die. To release him from the bonds that were holding him. Along this line of thinking, couldn't it be a process of the time reversal that instead of dying again Christian Shepard might begin to fade away? That Jacob was fading but somehow was stabilized, but that in the end this might be a process for passing the torch down to the new "Jacob? Somebody who has been resurrected? And then when the time trick or whatever starts to diminish you search for a new person to be "Jacob"?

Either way, we know they'll always need to have somebody expendable around in case they have to turn the wheel again, no? (<>..<>)

Hurley got to visit the cabin do that make him special too? Jack sees his Father whom hangs out in the cabin so does that make Jack special also?
I want to see Jack visit the cabin .. now that would be interesting. Actually i just want another cabin scene no matter who gets to go in because it really freaked me out. Especially Claire sitting in the corner looking all sinister!

Everybody that has witnessed The Apparitions is special I think. Locke's more special because instead of apparitions he's guided by dreams. He's plugged into the matrix it seems. After all, this seems to be the criteria Richard was testing Ben on in the woods. His ability to communicate with the unseen via his mom's apparition seemed to be what Richard was looking for. Apparently, the Others don't have or have lost the ability to do this...(<>..<>)

Well, come to think of it, all of the Losties or special in some way (including the O6) and that's why they need to come back, to their destinies or whatever the island needs them to do. I just think some are more special then others because of their understanding and relationship with the island or that they had abilities before coming to the island, like Hurley and Walt.

I don't think it's an issue of Ben not being special, but once he got into his position as leader I hink he was doing things in a completely different direction than the Island, Richard, and even the Others wanted. So Richard definately did things to ensure Ben's departure from the island. Once on island, the main reason he was helping Locke was to get rid of Ben because as he said, he was unhappy with Ben's leadership and obsessive focus on the fertility problems on the island. For exact words, that would be in S3's The Brig, because that's a very bad paragphrasing of what Richard said to John when he was helping him kill Cooper.

One thing I was wondering since we now know what younger Widmore was like, very forceful, brutal, possessive, wanting power...I wonder if he somehow made himself the leader of the Others by some sort of violent force or manipulation- I have a theory that Widmore ordered the Purge because he certainly is malevolent enough to do that.

I also noticed how they've portrayed Widmore. I remember reading a long while ago on here, people suggesting that Widmore was a good guy or had the best interests of the island in mind. His smugness and lack of hesitation as he killed Cunningham; and how he approached Sun and spoke to Sun, so much like her father did; I think Widmore's plan or scheme is more bad news than whatever Ben's working towards.

Though this is lost and he could be the shinning knight, but imo opinion Widmore is a lot worse than Ben in this and there's less sympathy out there, at this point, for him.