View Full Version : Ellie and Charles
01-29-2009, 09:48 AM
In episode 3 of season 5, we are introduced to a character named Ellie. In the enhanced version of episode 2, it is revealed that Ms Hawking's first name is Eloise. I am convinced that Ellie of the military Others is none other than the 1954 version of Ms Hawking. Furthermore, I would bet that the young Sinatra-looking Widmore will turn out to be Faraday's father, as I believe it is now obvious that Ms. Hawking is his mother.
Now think about the scene with Ellie leading Faraday to the bomb. Faraday says "You look just like..." (or something like that) and is then cut off. I bet he was about to say "a young version of my mom." At this point, Faraday hasn't been able to determine what year they are in, so I don't know if he has made the connection. But I feel that this scenario is quite likely.
01-29-2009, 09:52 AM
And I agree with Ellie being Daniel's mum, and well, Widmore is Daniel's benefactor (father?).
01-29-2009, 11:51 AM
I didn't know the first name of Ms. Hawking was Eloise :o
Well it all seems pretty clear now doesn't it??
Eloise Hawking will be Daniel's mom, but I don't think he'd be Charles' son too....
Why wouldn't he be named "Daniel Widmore"???
Unless of course they hadn't used their real names, and the scene where Daniel is watching the news about the flight 815 under the caretaker, she calls him "Stan". So this could be a clue that Daniel is not his real name and therefore probably Charles Widmore's son. :undecide:
And also the fact that Desmond didn't find him as a Faraday in the Oxford's University could be another clue. Maybe his real name is: Stan Widmore!
01-30-2009, 11:12 AM
good catch Oz...I'm kicking myself for not getting that the first time round. Great catch. Ellie is Eloise Hawking, thus the irony of her almost killing her son, and Daniel catching himself befoe he created a time paradox.
01-30-2009, 11:16 AM
Actually, Daniel simply says that she looks like someone he once knew. Nothing more specific than that.
I 'm as certain as many that Eloise Hawkings is Daniel's mum. Still debating on Widmore being the father, but that would work.
And as always, each answered question presents more questions. Cause now I want to know how Hawkings and Widmore came to be on the island in 1954.
01-30-2009, 11:23 AM
it looks increasingly likely that she will be daniel's mother, although i think its a bit obvious for LOST - there may still be a twist.
i think ellie is penny's mum (my wife's theory) but im not so sure that widmore is daniels father
01-30-2009, 11:29 AM
i dunno about widmore being Dan's father, in fact I doubt that.
But I'm jumping on the fact that when Ms Hawking tells Des he needs to go to the island to push the button, it's b/c she needs him to eventually be able to help send daniel back in time to help give the advice on what to do with the jughead bomb otherwise it will end up destroying the island and KILL ALL OF US.
01-30-2009, 11:35 AM
During the brief interaction between young Ellie and young Widmore, I got a strong sibling vibe. He was snappish with her in a brotherly, not a loverly, way.
That would make Penny and Daniel first cousins. If so, she obviously doesn't know him - at least by that name.
Just one more thing to think about. :rolleyes:
01-30-2009, 11:41 AM
that could work - it seemed like the actress was trying to copy the way penny speeks
01-30-2009, 12:10 PM
How many jugheads are running around in that episode anyways? Yeah, it makes sense that Charles (Jones), a regular Forsythe, would hook up with Ellie and produce a time-traveling kid. So, we've got Daniel... Locke... and Desmond... all juxtaposed with that great big bomb.
01-30-2009, 06:15 PM
. So, we've got Daniel... Locke... and Desmond... all juxtaposed with that great big bomb. Nice.
Daniel, Locke, and Desmond are indeed our three major time travelers. Their juxtaposition in this episode with the bomb foreshadows something. At the end, when we look back it will be so obvious but right now I'm stumped.
IMO a Charlie-Ellie hook-up would be incestuous...
01-30-2009, 08:41 PM
Is it possible that Ellie is Libby?? Ellie and Libby are both short for Elizabeth.
The call sheet for Ellie said the character was British Aristocracy... I think that points to the name Elizabeth.... But thats just my opinion.
However... for the drama... I like the theory of Ellie being Ms Hawking.
01-31-2009, 01:22 PM
Ok here is my theory on Eloise(Ms. H), Widmore and Daniel relationship/connection to both.
It is looking more like Ms. H is Daniel's mother from all of the telegraphing that we've seen in the way the story is being told thus far. However, I don't think Widmore is Daniel's father. As Daniel, based on his age, would have been born mid to late 70's and the young versions of Ms. H and Widmore we've seen are in 1954. I like the theory that Elle and Charles are siblings which would explain a lot, but I'll get to that.
So we see our 50's Others on the Island after they have killed/over-run a group of "US Army" (not totally convinced they really were US Army troops) guys with a bomb and they are trying to protect the Island and using the Military equipment. We know they took over the camp and equipment because of what is said during Jughead and from Damon's comment in the Recap "When ever someone comes to the Island, the Others, like hermet crabs, wipe them out and start to use their stuff." We also see how "on edge" they are. This could be in part due to their encounter with a bomb (I know I would be on edge). What we also see is the arrogance of young Widmore. Could this be what leads to him being booted from the Island.
Theory: Sometime later in time Widmore, believing he should be the leader and resenting Richard's control of things, stages a revolt. This leads to Widmore and his followers bannishment from the Island. Eloise (Ms. H) choose to side with Richard and is still there past this event. Later, possbily sometime after the DI which is how she might know Ben, is sent off the Island by Richard in order to keep Widmore from returning. After she leaves is when she becames pregnent with Daniel but does not raise him herself in order to keep him safe. This would explain why Daniel has an American accent and not a British one.
Daniel may know his mother but only later finds out why she sent him to be raised elsewhere. It's this discovery that leads him to study the Island and it's properties his adult life. However, it's these experiments that attract Widmores attention and he becomes Daniel's benefactor at least from a distance.
Question: Why were the 50's Others on the Islnd in the first place? How did they (specifically) come to be there? Could Eloise and Charles being siblings and "special" be why they are both there?
Theory: Widmore and Ben never meet while on the Island they have only meet in person off-Island. Widmore was gone before the DI and thus before Ben and his dad came there. Widmore doesn't like Ben because Ben was able to do what Widmore couldn't, be the chosen leader. Widmore can't accept that he was never going to be the leader but still wants the power (that he thinks) goes along with controlling the Island.
I hope I explained this well as there is some much running through my brain on this I'm not even sure if I'm making sense.
01-31-2009, 01:34 PM
ive posted similar at the queSt, i agree charles could have been born on the island, and perhaps he wouldnt age if he was still there. Its very likely he got banished for trying to take control of the others. Perhaps he was even pegged to be leader - hence he thinks the island belongs to him.