Arrgghhh :biggrin::confused:

Another HUGE question. All will be answered though... faith.

I am guessing that until the "donkey wheel" was turned the first time the island was visible to all.

But bawstngilr, John is still seeking the avenue off the island, and Richard is telling him that's classified information. This tells me that island location is still difficult to find, which leads us back to the original question of the thread.

And is Jughead still buried on the island....does that mean the show will end with the ultimate Flash back. (last line just a joke....don't start theories...)

Did they crash there like our losties?

it had to be...findable...able to be found somehow- how else would Dharma find it and get there?

I can't answer this, but I do like the fact that they are there. Having the island in the South Pacific it was just a matter of time they had the US military and H-bombs have something to do with the story. I'm guessing that they got there by accident while looking for a different island to test Jughead. They probably set up the test assuming that they were just going to leave and detonate it by radio from a ship.

It was the Swan dispersing small amounts of pentup EM that hid the island... and probably the Swan incident which caused the time dilation around the island...until then it would be found just like any regular old island.

Richard intuits that Locke is asking for the "special" way off the island and doesn't believe yet that Locke isn't a "spy."

Yeah... I too think that back then, the island was discoverable, and it wasn't until some incident (FDW, Dharma, or otherwise) that it became hidden.

The same way Desmond and the black rock found it...Accidently.

They were looking for islands to test nuclear weapons on. The others discovered them and killed them off. The island had no special powers at that time. My theory is when "Jughead" is finally sealed and buried, something happens to it (explodes underground?) and mixed with whatever properties the island has causes the island to be invisible. Jughead is buried at what is now known as the Orchid.

The same way Desmond and the black rock found it...Accidently.

I`m having serious doubts whether des found the island `accidentally` at the minute :biggrin:

I`m having serious doubts whether des found the island `accidentally` at the minute :biggrin:

What are you thinking happened?

I`m having serious doubts whether des found the island `accidentally` at the minute :biggrin:
In his conversation with Widmore, when Charles told him to go back to wherever he was hiding, I got the impression that he did not know that Des had been there.

What are you thinking happened?

Hmmm well its just you have to go on a specific bearing to get to the island. Old des was in a sailboat in a mega storm so to hold a perfecty bearing to get to the island would imo be impossible. I think it was staged by someone possibly, ben in a widmore/linus deal for reasons as yet unknown. Maybe des was drugged somehow and when he passed out, picked up and placed on the beach along with his boat. Just seems a lot of connections to me to just be purely an accident.
I`ll probably be totally wrong / miles off like ! lol

But bawstngilr, John is still seeking the avenue off the island, and Richard is telling him that's classified information. This tells me that island location is still difficult to find,


It is future John (who only knows the island as being hidden - post at least one donkey wheel incident and/or an electromagnetic incident)who is looking for the way off....in 1954 I think he would have been able to just sail/fly away....I'm probably wrong but that is what I currently think.

I`m having serious doubts whether des found the island `accidentally` at the minute :biggrin:

Agreed. I don't think anything we've seen was an "accident". To be clear I was pointing out the Des wasn't Looking for the Island. (even if he was destined to end up there.

And do we ever Look for our destinies, or do they find us?

My suspicion is that when Dharma became involved and knew how powerful the island was, they rigged up protocols to shield it from various electronic sensing devices. In the earlier history of the island, when it had to be identified by someone physically showing up and putting it on a map, it was probably a lot less findable in such a remote area. And I'm a bit suspicious of Richard saying that they offered the Army guys the chance just to leave. Before modern technology developed anyone who ended up on the island was either assimilated into the Others or killed by them.

Cardie

I too think that no one accidentally finds the island. I think this is where a lot of the destiny idea comes into play. I think Desmond is an integral part of the island's past present and future, he didn't just happen upon it.

I do think there must have been points in time where the island was visible or there would be no need for a mechanism(donkey wheel) to move the island.

I think the Army found the island by accident (or by fate), but in any event, the island still has its special properties at this time. This is why Richard says how one leaves the island is privileged information. Also explains why the island isnt completely overrun with the US military once there starts to be trouble on the island. This team got there, but now they cant get off and possibly also cant communicate with the larger forces that placed them there (or in the area) originally. Probably the wheel is a last resort as Ben mentioned because once enough people in the outside world know generally how to get to it (even though you cant spot it or get to it easily), the island may need to be moved.

I can understand how a military group might have found the Islands. It was either prior to the Islands becoming "invisible" or it was the same way that it appears most other people found the Islands (by being pulled there during a time jumping event). What I can figure out is how, if the military found the Islands or if some military group went missing on the Islands, why the military command back home didn't try to find them. We can assume that those military personel on the Islands never left!

Posting here because I think this is the best place for the question.
Are we to assume that Young Widmore, Ellie, et al. are wearing the uniforms and using the weapons of the American soldiers that brought "jughead" to the island and were killed by Richard's geoup? Widmores uniform said Jones.
If so then why are they wearing the uniforms? Why are they using the American weapons (M1 Garands and carbines) AND bows and arrows? Why are the others so concerned with hiding their true appearances (meaning the way they dressed as the sea-billies and the fake villages with Walt/Michael and the fake beards)? Is this the group that Ben 1st met in the woods while he was with the DI?

I`m having serious doubts whether des found the island `accidentally` at the minute :biggrin:

I think Des' own finding of it was accidental from his point of view, but that the whole purpose of Widmore's "Race Around the World" was for someone to find the island, and allow him to find it through them. So in that sense, it was not an accident.

Are we to assume that Young Widmore, Ellie, et al. are wearing the uniforms and using the weapons of the American soldiers that brought "jughead" to the island and were killed by Richard's geoup? Widmores uniform said Jones.

I do, yes. Especially now that the man who's uniform said "Jones" is now identified as someone else, an Other, Charles Widmore no less. Makes the most sense.

If so then why are they wearing the uniforms? Why are they using the American weapons (M1 Garands and carbines) AND bows and arrows?

Its an interesting parallel, and perhaps unintentional, to what the American Indians did as they came into more and more contact with the white men coming from the east. That aside, they probably didnt have enough guns to equip everyone and/or some were more comfortable (or effective - since bows and arrows are not ineffctive) with a bow and arrow. And the uniforms? Well, they took over the camp as a whole, and the equipment too. Maybe they intend to try and masquerade around the island as the "invaders". In case they find more, they'll have a few moments of surprise/deception to their advantage. It worked on Juliet and Sawyer (and us as viewers) last episodes.

Why are the others so concerned with hiding their true appearances (meaning the way they dressed as the sea-billies and the fake villages with Walt/Michael and the fake beards)?

In this case, I think I alluded to it above. It gives them an advantage to be able to use assumed identities when making first contact with others. They can use the assumptions of their foes against them.

Is this the group that Ben 1st met in the woods while he was with the DI?

Certainly, I'd think. At least some of them who reamined there that long.

I think they found the island as it simply wasn't hidden. I think after the DI arrive or when Desmond is put in the hatch and begins to enter the numbers the island is rendered invisible or unreachable. Maybe something to do with its magnetic energy? Entering the numbers every 108 minutes releases a certain amount of magnetic energy throwing all compases off.

This struck me as a little strange Sayid in a much earlier season claims that true north isn't north on the island there is some interference.

Richard: Here take this compass
Locke: What does it do?
Richard: It points north numb nuts (i know added the numb nuts part but thats what i translated the look he gives locke)

Hence at this point the magetism wasn't being given off by the island

Richard: Here take this compass
Locke: What does it do?
Richard: It points north numb nuts (i know added the numb nuts part but thats what i translated the look he gives locke)

Hence at this point the magetism wasn't being given off by the island

That scene apparently takes place in the future though, post-island disappearance.

That scene apparently takes place in the future though, post-island disappearance.
Not in Richard's time line perspective it doesn't.

That scene apparently takes place in the future though, post-island disappearance.

My take is that the scene takes place sometime between the day that the Beechcraft fell on top of Boone and the day Eko burned it, since Locke is sheltering in a fallen but unincinerated Beechcraft.

I think Richard's comment is meant to convey that this compass compensates for island magnetism and does point true north.

Cardie

We have Blackrock, Adam and Eve, Dharma, Richard's group, the army, Desmond, Danielle/crew, our Losties, the guy who dies after landing in a tree (hot air balloon), and the drug trafficers. Boy, for a hidden island where you have to use the specific bearing... there sure are a lot of people ending up on it!

Maybe the island was never as hard to find before the army started doing 'tests' there or before Dharma came calling. Afterall Dharma found it too so it couldn't have been well hidden.

We have Blackrock, Adam and Eve, Dharma, Richard's group, the army, Desmond, Danielle/crew, our Losties, the guy who dies after landing in a tree (hot air balloon), and the drug trafficers. Boy, for a hidden island where you have to use the specific bearing... there sure are a lot of people ending up on it!

:biggrin::biggrin:
Seems the only people who cant find it, are the ones who are looking for it !

My take is that the scene takes place sometime between the day that the Beechcraft fell on top of Boone and the day Eko burned it, since Locke is sheltering in a fallen but unincinerated Beechcraft.

I think Richard's comment is meant to convey that this compass compensates for island magnetism and does point true north.

Cardie

My take is that Richard was making a joke.

I think the American military guys found the island just like the beechcraft, 815 and Desmond did. They crashed on the island... Heck, maybe that's why the casing is comprimised on the bomb.

Something doesn't add up here. No way would the US military choose an uncharted location for a nuclear test. Such a test site would be chosen very carefully. I can't buy that they'd choose a previously uncharted island to explode a nuclear bomb. Hopefully we will learn that the island was chosen because it was special rather than by mere coincidence.

Something doesn't add up here. No way would the US military choose an uncharted location for a nuclear test. Such a test site would be chosen very carefully. I can't buy that they'd choose a previously uncharted island to explode a nuclear bomb. Hopefully we will learn that the island was chosen because it was special rather than by mere coincidence.

As I said earlier, I think they were heading somewhere in the Pacific to do a nuclear test when they accidentally got pulled into an Island time jump. But the question remains, where did their ship go and why didn't anyone come looking for them?

The other alternative is that the Islands were normal Islands before the military arrived, well perhaps not "normal" but the Island's potential had not yet been discovered and they were not "invisible" Islands. But this then leaves the question about the Black Rock and how it got there.

As I said earlier, I think they were heading somewhere in the Pacific to do a nuclear test when they accidentally got pulled into an Island time jump.

The bomb was set up to on a tower in order to be detonated so they clearly had intentions to test it there. You wouldn't do that on an island you accidentally landed on.

I think the American military guys found the island just like the beechcraft, 815 and Desmond did. They crashed on the island... Heck, maybe that's why the casing is comprimised on the bomb.

Crashing on an island with an H bomb without it detonating? I don't buy it.

I have anticipated this all the way since season 2,where Ana Lucia sees the US army issue knife and kill Goodwin.
Im glad this finally is in the process of being resolved/answered.
The writers of Lost=geniouses

The other alternative is that the Islands were normal Islands before the military arrived, well perhaps not "normal" but the Island's potential had not yet been discovered and they were not "invisible" Islands. But this then leaves the question about the Black Rock and how it got there.

Yes, and just as curious.......how did the statue (four toes) get there?

The same way Desmond and the black rock found it...Accidently.
But if some US military boat or plane just stumbled onto the island, they would have been trapped there like Desmond or the Black Rock (or 815), and most likely never heard from again.

The fact that the US military is sending troops and supplies there for a bomb test means they are getting back and forth to the island at will. That's very hard to do, at least without some kind of on-island beacon to follow. It really adds a new wrinkle, or at least a new party who somehow is knowledgeable about the island.

Most likely explanation is that Hanso was working with the US military before he hooked up with Widmore and DHARMA. Before hooking up with Widmore, he probably didn't appreciate the full potential of the island.
100%
I have anticipated this all the way since season 2,where Ana Lucia sees the US army issue knife and kill Goodwin.
Im glad this finally is in the process of being resolved/answered.
The writers of Lost=geniouses
Holy cow, I totally forgot about that. You're right.

:biggrin::biggrin:
Seems the only people who cant find it, are the ones who are looking for it !
Yep. You always find what you look for when you actually stop looking for it!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

If the military did accidentally find the island, and are trapped in the snowglobe. I am assuming at that time the Looking Glass station was not built to block radio transmissions. So the military would be able to communicate to their commander off the island. At least in theory... until we find out exactly how radio communication works between the island and the real world.

I posted this on another thread that seems to have run its course but I had the same question since the US Army wouldn't just be hauling Jughead around looking for a good place to set it off. This was a reference on the Blast Door Map which until now had no connection with an event on the island. Always good to re-look at the Blast Door map it has all the dots and now it seems like we can connect one of those dots.

quote]
"Large Number of Underground Springs...Heavy Water Table"

Heavy water is a loose term which usually refers to Deuterium oxide, D2O or 2H2O.

[/quote]
more coincidence? Hardly because it is never a coincidence. Was the island of interest because of heavy water for use in H- Bombs? Maybe the Army didn't just show up.

Check out the link, the Blast Door Map is the biggest clue ever!
http://www.losttvfans.com/page/The+Blast+Door+Map?t=anon