I think it is possible that everyone is stuck in some sort of time loop. Sort of like the Groundhog Day movie, but much longer than one day.

In order for the time loop to end something specific has to happen to break the loop.

Jacob is special because he is the only one that has knowledge from loop to loop.

Richard is special because while he does not have knowledge from previous loops, he is a constant presence from loop to loop. That is what a constant is. Someone that is with you on every iteration of the loop. If you lose your constant you will start jumping time until you die or you find your constant.

Ben and Locke are special because they have somehow been identified as people who will do the "specific" thing that will break the loop. First, Ben was going to be the person, but as Jacob gained more knowledge from iterating through more time loops, he determined that Locke was the special one.

The detonation of Jughead is what caused the rip in the space-time continuum and thereby initiating the time loop. The key to stopping the time loop is probably preventing the detonation of Jughead.

The O6 are the a component of the islands constant and if they do not get back in time (70 hours was it?) the island will die (like Charlotte?) and the time loop will start all over again.

While the overall time loop is not huge, between the detonation of Jughead (whenver that is) and sometime after the crash of O815, there can be huge time jumps within a loop. In other words, the island can skip in time to before the start of the loop and past the end of the loop.

Does any of this make sense?

I think it is possible that everyone is stuck in some sort of time loop. Sort of like the Groundhog Day movie, but much longer than one day.

In order for the time loop to end something specific has to happen to break the loop.

Jacob is special because he is the only one that has knowledge from loop to loop.

Richard is special because while he does not have knowledge from previous loops, he is a constant presence from loop to loop. That is what a constant is. Someone that is with you on every iteration of the loop. If you lose your constant you will start jumping time until you die or you find your constant.

Does any of this make sense?

One minor point. Richard tells Locke to give him the compass because he will not remember Locke when they see each other again. Odd that Richard knew it would be in the past. 50 years past.

I agree that something has to happen for the time looping to end. Maybe it's the 06 returning to the Island with something like a key or an object.

One minor point. Richard tells Locke to give him the compass because he will not remember Locke when they see each other again. Odd that Richard knew it would be in the past. 50 years past.

I agree that something has to happen for the time looping to end. Maybe it's the 06 returning to the Island with something like a key or an object.

It isn't odd, because John Locke was in 1954, so 51 years later, Richard remembered to meet John by the beechcraft, fix his leg, give him the compass.

Their was never a 1954 when John was not back in time.

It isn't odd, because John Locke was in 1954, so 51 years later, Richard remembered to meet John by the beechcraft, fix his leg, give him the compass.

Their was never a 1954 when John was not back in time.

Now see, that is a paradox. Richard knows that he will not remember Locke when Locke goes back to 1954.

Richard knows about time travel in the future (our present) but again, how does he know the loop will take everyone back to 1954 and that he will not remember Locke?

My head is spinning. However, I have a theory that explains the time loop, but it's kinda out there. Maybe another time.

I think it is possible that everyone is stuck in some sort of time loop. Sort of like the Groundhog Day movie, but much longer than one day.

In order for the time loop to end something specific has to happen to break the loop.

Was just talking about this in another thread... I believe by leaving, the O6 have broken the loop (or at least bent it quite a bit).

They all have work to do. Everything that has happened to these people has always happened and therefore must always happen. Each event is necessary so it can play off itself from the past to the future and from the future to the past...just like the Locke/Richard leader phenomena.

The O6 may have broken this loop before it's final end point. Now not only is one event askew, but the entire chain of events that need to come full circle is broken as well.

What if Locke had left with the O6? Then he wouldn't have been able to go to 1954 and tell Richard he was the future leader of the Others. Richard wouldn't have been waiting for him and all the other events that got Locke to the Island with "work to do" may not have happened either......I believe the O6 have similar circles to complete as well.

It isn't odd, because John Locke was in 1954, so 51 years later, Richard remembered to meet John by the beechcraft, fix his leg, give him the compass.
I think that scene was much further into the future as if one night while sitting down to a nice meal Locke casually mentions to Richard, 'tonight after dinner I need you to do me a favour, I need you to go to the pearl and take a bullet out of my leg, I will be disoriented but you need to keep me focused and tell me what to do next' John now being a confident leader remembering how he was at that moment. It probably won't happen just like that but you get the picture


My head is spinning. However, I have a theory that explains the time loop, but it's kinda out there. Maybe another time. There's no time like the present:biggrin:, sorry I couldn't resist.

Another thing PapaThor, slowly your fish will start to vanish, but remember KittyThor owns you not the other way around and he just couldn't resist:biggrin:

There's no time like the present

That HAS to be the title of an episode!!!!!

That HAS to be the title of an episode!!!!!
Shhhhhhh, don't make their job easier:) I was just coming to post that very idea.

Shhhhhhh, don't make their job easier:) I was just coming to post that very idea.
hurry up! Go get the copyright on that!

The detonation of Jughead is what caused the rip in the space-time continuum and thereby initiating the time loop. The key to stopping the time loop is probably preventing the detonation of Jughead.

But if they stop Jughead from going off, there'll never be rip and a time loop. So how then do they go back and stop it???

But if they stop Jughead from going off, there'll never be rip and a time loop. So how then do they go back and stop it???
Exactly. If they prevent the explosion and the subsequent tear in the time/space continuum the loop would cease and time would progress normally.

Each loop is a parallel universe. So in the final loop, Jughead goes off creating the tear and initiating the loop. Once the explosion is prevented there will be not more looping, but the past looping still happened.

Desmond's the key...he will be pushing the button forever to keep the island in a time loop, thereby protecting Penny and his son and everyone else.

Originally posted by teksmith:

"Exactly. If they prevent the explosion and the subsequent tear in the time/space continuum the loop would cease and time would progress normally.

Each loop is a parallel universe. So in the final loop, Jughead goes off creating the tear and initiating the loop. Once the explosion is prevented there will be not more looping, but the past looping still happened.”

I’m not sure that preventing the explosion and the subsequent tear in the time/space is the key—or even possible—to ceasing the time loop within the construct of Lost-logic. As Daniel had emphatically stated in Because You Left: “Whatever happened, happened.”SAWYER: Yeah, but what if it ain't? Hell, what if the helicopter hasn't even taken off yet?
JULIET: We could warn them, stop them from ever flying to that boat.
FARADAY: That's not the way it works.
SAWYER: Who says?
FARADAY: You cannot change anything. You can't. Even if you tried to, it wouldn't work.
SAWYER: Why not?
FARADAY: Time--it's like a street, all right? We can move forward on that street, we can move in reverse, but we cannot ever create a new street. If we try to do anything different, we will fail every time. Whatever happened, happened.
TPTB are basically using Faraday to channel the Novikov self-consistency theory of time travel. (See discussions here:
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=101775 ;
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthr...ov#post1402660 (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=1402660&highlight=novikov#post1402660) ;
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=106689 )

Prof Novikov stated it as such in a 1999 article entitled "Notion of the Past & Can We Change It?":“The loop has no clearly defined future and no past, and all events affect one another on a circle. Briefly and metaphorically speaking, we are under `double' strong influence: without the time machine events are influenced by the flow of data from the past (but not from the future! this is the gist of the causality principle), while events on the loop respond to information coming from both the past and the future. Therefore, with the time machine, today's events must be consistent with (i.e. be determined by) not only the past but also the future! . . . With the time machine becoming a reality, the future starts to affect the past. All events occur in such a way that this influence is taken into account. However, once an event has taken place (it was influenced by the events both in the past and in the future), that's the end, it cannot be altered. `What has really happened cannot be undone'.”
http://eas.iap.fr/EAS18/time18/ontime.html

This is the essentially what Daniel has been saying. So it seems to me that the only way of getting out of the time loop to alter today’s events is not by changing the past (i.e., not by preventing the explosion and time/space tear--which already had happened and cannot be undone) but by somehow altering the yet-to-be-determined future. That in effect is what happened (is now happening?) when Daniel meets Desmond at the Swan pre-2004 and tells him that if in the future Desmond gets off the island he should to go to Oxford to find Daniel’s mother—which Desmond only remembers in the future—the implication being that this will set off a chain of “future” events on the loop that will ultimately change the present and stop the loop from continuing. (I’m not sure what I just said).

I’m not sure that preventing the explosion and the subsequent tear in the time/space is the key—or even possible—to ceasing the time loop within the construct of Lost-logic. As Daniel had emphatically stated in Because You Left: “Whatever happened, happened.”
SAWYER: Yeah, but what if it ain't? Hell, what if the helicopter hasn't even taken off yet?
JULIET: We could warn them, stop them from ever flying to that boat.
FARADAY: That's not the way it works.
SAWYER: Who says?
FARADAY: You cannot change anything. You can't. Even if you tried to, it wouldn't work.
SAWYER: Why not?
FARADAY: Time--it's like a street, all right? We can move forward on that street, we can move in reverse, but we cannot ever create a new street. If we try to do anything different, we will fail every time. Whatever happened, happened.
TPTB are basically using Faraday to channel the Novikov self-consistency theory of time travel. (See discussions here:
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=101775 ;
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthr...ov#post1402660 (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=1402660&highlight=novikov#post1402660) ;
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=106689 )

Prof Novikov stated it as such in a 1999 article entitled "Notion of the Past & Can We Change It?":
“The loop has no clearly defined future and no past, and all events affect one another on a circle. Briefly and metaphorically speaking, we are under `double' strong influence: without the time machine events are influenced by the flow of data from the past (but not from the future! this is the gist of the causality principle), while events on the loop respond to information coming from both the past and the future. Therefore, with the time machine, today's events must be consistent with (i.e. be determined by) not only the past but also the future! . . . With the time machine becoming a reality, the future starts to affect the past. All events occur in such a way that this influence is taken into account. However, once an event has taken place (it was influenced by the events both in the past and in the future), that's the end, it cannot be altered. `What has really happened cannot be undone'.”
http://eas.iap.fr/EAS18/time18/ontime.html

This is the essentially what Daniel has been saying. So it seems to me that the only way of getting out of the time loop to alter today’s events is not by changing the past (i.e., not by preventing the explosion and time/space tear--which already had happened and cannot be undone) but by somehow altering the yet-to-be-determined future. That in effect is what happened (is now happening?) when Daniel meets Desmond at the Swan pre-2004 and tells him that if in the future Desmond gets off the island he should to go to Oxford to find Daniel’s mother—which Desmond only remembers in the future—the implication being that this will set off a chain of “future” events on the loop that will ultimately change the present and stop the loop from continuing. (I’m not sure what I just said).

But they did change something. Daniel changed something. The first time through the loop, Daniel and the Lefties did not go to Desmond's hatch. And Dainel did not plant the memory to go find his mother. We know this because the Lefties were not there the first time through. So this is a change - even though it is against the rules.

May be worth re-posting in this thread as well:

It's important to realize that Novikov (and other physicists who have written on timetrave) uses "change" to describe events that lead to paradoxes. A "change" will prevent the TTer from reaching the point from which they have always traveled and/or remove the means, motivation, ability etc. to do so.

A TTer cannot kill their past self. This is a "change" that will prevent him from living to the point from which he traveled back....Paradox: you can't go from 2008 to 1980 and die while there. If you do then you will not live to 2008 which is the point you need to TT from in order to die in the past.

The same is true in the Hitler example. Say you build a time machine in 2008 and travel back to 1935 and kill Hitler. Come 2008 you will have no motivation to travel back to 1935 because now there was no Hitler to kill.

Keep in mind that Novikov cites time looping at the point the traveler leaves his present time.

For a visual perspective of the above, draw a straight timeline from 1930 to 2010. Follow that line to 2008 and jump back to 1935. You now have what looks like a capital "D" on it's belly.

Now go back to 2008 forming another capital "D" on its back. The circle that the two form are now part of your timeline. They must always exists because they always have.

The straight line running through the circle contain the events that get you from 2008 to 1935 to 2008 to 1935.

"With the time machine becoming a reality, the future starts to affect the past. All events occur in such a way that this influence is taken into account. However, once an event has taken place (it was influenced by the events both in the past and in the future), that's the end, it cannot be altered. `What has really happened cannot be undone'.”[/B]

Could the part I made bold be the explanation for what is happening now to the lefties and that it is happening for the first time, not that it always happened? The lefties are going from their future to their past and creating an event, so now the past and future have had influence and the event can't be altered or undone and becomes as if it had always happened. This makes so much more sense to me than just saying it's always happened with no explanation as to how, which is what many of the TT posts seem to be saying.

Am I making any sense?

"With the time machine becoming a reality, the future starts to affect the past. All events occur in such a way that this influence is taken into account. However, once an event has taken place (it was influenced by the events both in the past and in the future), that's the end, it cannot be altered. `What has really happened cannot be undone'.”[/b]

Could the part I made bold be the explanation for what is happening now to the lefties and that it is happening for the first time, not that it always happened? The lefties are going from their future to their past and creating an event, so now the past and future have had influence and the event can't be altered or undone and becomes as if it had always happened. This makes so much more sense to me than just saying it's always happened with no explanation as to how, which is what many of the TT posts seem to be saying.

Am I making any sense?

There is also a time travel theory based on quantum mechanics that says (paraphrasing) if you go back in time and change something then a parallel timeline is created and both timelines exists. For instance, if you go back in time to kill Hitler, and you kill Hitler, a new timeline is created. One where Hitler was killed. The original timeline where Hitler was never killed also exists. There essentially become 2 parallel universes from that point on. And time travel involves not only traveling back and forth in time but also between universes.