I know there is already Jughead thread going, but I didn't want my "concrete" theory (pun intended) to get buried in what amounts to a conjecture thread.

I think that the DI used Jughead as the Fail-Safe in the Swan Station. After the incident, the DI put a stop-gap in place by using the station computer to release built-up energy. But they also knew that they needed a last ditch fall-back in case something went very wrong. So they moved Jughead into the hatch, wired the ignition to the fail-safe, and encased it with lead and concrete.

The original plan was that if the Hostiles ever succeeded in taking over the DI, the hatch operator would get orders to sacrifice the island to prevent the Swan hatch from falling into their hands. Note the language that Kelvin used: "make this all go away." The fail-safe was not intended to be used in conjunction of a countdown system failure, a point that Kelvin failed to make clear to Desmond.

The magnetic anomaly/Swan computer and the Jughead/Fail-Safe components of the Swan are entire separate from each other. Jughead has nothing to do with the electro-magnetism or pushing the button.

The misuse of the term "fail-safe" always bothered me. A fail-safe design limits damage or danger without manual intervention if a system goes out of control, but the Swan "fail-safe" has to be activated by someone, so it isn't fail-safe.

Now, though, I think that the writers intentionally misused the term to invoke the connection to a 1960's Henry Fonda movie "Fail-Safe" about a rogue U.S. nuclear bomber about to H-bomb Moscow. The President, played by Fonda, nuked NYC as a sign of good faith so that the Soviets wouldn't retaliate.
When Desmond turned the fail-safe key during the countdown failure one of two things happened:
1. The simpler answer is that the magnetic anamoly and the nuclear explosion combined into an event that set up the weird results we've seen after Ben turned the FDW.
2. The more crackpot possibility is that the anamoly sent the nuclear explosion into the future where it will eventually destroy the island. Maybe that's the dire situation that Ms. Hawking is trying to correct, the reason for "every one of us is dead" and "God help us all" comments. After all, detonating an island containing exotic matter would have dire consequences for the rest of the world.

wow very nice, I like it! Sent an H-bomb explosion into the future so you have time to stop it from happening.

but wouldn't the nuclear explosion blow the island up altogether?

it's a clever theory, but with Alvar Hanso being a munitions magnate, and dharma clearly having access to C4 explosive and unlimited resources, do you think they would dig up a leaky hydrogen bomb from the 50's and mess about with it?

it's a clever theory, but with Alvar Hanso being a munitions magnate, and dharma clearly having access to C4 explosive and unlimited resources, do you think they would dig up a leaky hydrogen bomb from the 50's and mess about with it?

Fair point, but if your aim is to prevent someone you perceive as dangerous from controlling the island, you might go so far as to destroy the island rather than let them have it. If so, then C4 ain't gonna cut it.

The conflict between DI and the Hostiles seems to escalate over time.

I seem to remember reading that the early H-bombs were over-powered and that later bombs were scaled back so that they could be employed more strategically. Even if the DI/Hanso/whoever could get a more modern nuclear bomb, it might not do the job as well as Jughead.

they might want an old bomb to use as a dirty bomb, no damage to the island but kills everything.

Jughead Jones is the comic book character the bomb is named after... surely not a coincidence that Widmore is wearing Jones' uniform. But other than that I have no more ideas about Jughead.

Jughead's Time Police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Universes_in_Archie_Comics#Jughead.27s_T ime_Police) was a series that began in 1990 featuring Jughead as a hero of the 29th century and a member of the Time Police, an organization that ensures history to remain the same for the future's sake. In this series, the beanie gives Jughead the ability to time travel by thinking. With his supervisor, Marshal January McAndrews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_in_Archie_Comics#January_McAndrew s), Jughead repairs disturbances in the past.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughead_Jones#cite_note-2)

In our world, Jughead exploded.

okay, nice theory just 1 question:

What do you suggest would have happened if Desmond hadn't turned the "fail-safe" key then??


This theory gets supported by the fact that Ben didn't mind if the numbers were stopped from entering (as we can remember in Lockdown when Ben lied when telling Locke that he hadn't entered any numbers nor pressed any button)... And when the anomaly happened, when the sky turned purpule, Ben seemed pretty bothered about that...
So it means that Ben didn't mind that the button was stopped from being pushed, but he did mind that the "fail-safe" key was turned which led us to a separation in functions between these two, as you say...

I like this idea Enchanter - it goes along with some of the other things I've mentioned about Jughead myself the episode threads...

I still think that the DI was using the bomb as a power source for whatever EM anomaly was discovered in/under/near The Swan station... I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle, and there are gaps and flaws in my logic I'm sure... but I think the failsafe was designed as a means to allow the Island to "move" again should dire circumstances arise that necessitated it. Of course, the button pushers were never told those details, only that the failsafe would "make this all go away"...

We know that the Island was "cloaked" by the EM anomaly (or at least I think so) - essentially making it invisible to the outside world. So far, we know that in the past (prior to The Swan) that U.S. soldiers had found the Island and were prepping it for nuclear testing. After The Swan imploded/exploded/whatever it may have done, LOL - we know that the Island was "seen" again by the outside world, because of the monitoring that the 2 men were doing in the arctic area.

Ben knew that because outsiders had arrived on the Island (when they all watched 815 break up), that it meant the Island was in danger and that it would need to be "moved". So he set out on his quest to convince the residents of the Swan to stop pushing the button, which would in turn result in the activation of the failsafe, which caused the EM "bubble" enclosing the Island to "burst" which gave us the "purple sky event" at the end of S3. Ben didn't look too concerned when it occurred while everyone else on the docks were covering their eyes and ears, because he knew what was happening. When the EM bubble broken, the Island could be seen and found from the outside world... From that point forward, his plans to "move" the Island were put into effect.

There are likely some major points I'm missing, so feel free to take a hammer to this.. :) but I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Jughead is being used by DI for *something*. And if you are trying to generate an EM field large enough to cloak an entire *Island*, you're going to need a pretty hefty power source - i.e. Jughead.

I have some food for thought:

Jughead was a bomb from 1954 and even then, it was already leaking radiation.

If Lostpedia is to be taken as a reliable source, the production of the Swan orientation video was around 1980. Given that it is an orientation tool and extrapolating from that, I suppose we could fairly assume that the Swan station was built around that time - maybe even give a few years earlier at the most. So for argument's sake, let's hold as reference that the Swan was built sometime between 1977-1980.

Do you see where I am going here? The time between when we see that the hydrogen bomb leaking radiation (1954) and the time the Swan came into existence implies a time frame of roughly 25 years.

Another thing to note is that when we last saw Jughead, it was last in the custody/possession of Richard Alpert and the Widmore Others. They were the hostiles of the Island - protecting it from outside forces (which, in 1954 was the US Military).

Hence, given the limited information that we were last left with, Jughead was in the hands of the hostiles and it was the hostiles that were given the advice by Faraday to seal the bomb with lead and bury it somewhere. So if this ultimately ended up being the game plan, we have to keep in mind that the burial of such a dangerous device was at the discretion of the hostiles and their objectives/agenda. Or, at least, this what we are left to presume, given the last known disposition of the hydrogen bomb.

Now, let's flash forward to the 1970's-early 1990's era of the Dharma Initiative. They are not the hostiles. It is the hostiles that they are fighting against. But, as we all know, the concept and construction of the Swan station was all the work of the Dharma Initiative.

Are you still following me?
So if the disposition of the Jughead hydrogen bomb was at the discretion of Alpert and the hostiles in 1954, how could it be that 25 years or so later the Dharma Initiative would not only somehow figured out where they buried it, but also saw fit to use such an old weapon as a foundation to base a fail-safe option for the Swan hatch?

Moreover, given the radiation leaking from the hydrogen bomb, how confident are we that the issue was properly sealed - and that over the course of 25 years, if it is still leaking, how effective would the bomb and its properties be after such a long time? (I'm no bomb expert, so I'm sure there are experts that can more properly address this).

In any event, all I'm saying is that while the theory of the Jughead bomb being related to the Swan station sounds like a possible theory, there might still be much to explain in bridging that 25 year gap as to how the bomb switched hands from the hostiles to the DI for that scenario to pan out.

With the initial incursion of the DI (and, presumably the return of Widmore) onto the island during the early 1970s, wouldn't it be at all plausible that Alpert (and whoever his gang of hostiles were at the time) might actually be the first (since they know the whereabouts of the bomb) to either use Jughead to their advantage - or at least protect/dispose of it first before the DI and Widmore could get their mitts on the weapon?

Hermit, I hear your points. I like the premise of this thread, but I like the points you bring up against it. Do any of us think that a poorly buried Jughead with a slow leak could be the cause of "the sickness" on the island that the DI had radiation suits for? After time it ran out and that is why it had no effect on our 815'ers. The Jughead has importance, we just have to figure out what it is.

TBTB said that if Desmond hadn't used the key, the island and probably the world might have been affected, I believe that they implied that the effects would have been similar to those of a black hole. So there wouldn't be any need to trigger the bomb in case the swan was taken over. I believe that the failsafe key was definitely to stop the something very very bad from happening.

TBTB said that if Desmond hadn't used the key, the island and probably the world might have been affected, I believe that they implied that the effects would have been similar to those of a black hole. So there wouldn't be any need to trigger the bomb in case the swan was taken over. I believe that the failsafe key was definitely to stop the something very very bad from happening.

Agreed. Hawking said to Desmond, if he didn't go to the island, push the buttons and turn the key, then all of us will be dead.

I have some food for thought:

Jughead was a bomb from 1954 and even then, it was already leaking radiation.

If Lostpedia is to be taken as a reliable source, the production of the Swan orientation video was around 1980. Given that it is an orientation tool and extrapolating from that, I suppose we could fairly assume that the Swan station was built around that time - maybe even give a few years earlier at the most. So for argument's sake, let's hold as reference that the Swan was built sometime between 1977-1980.

Do you see where I am going here? The time between when we see that the hydrogen bomb leaking radiation (1954) and the time the Swan came into existence implies a time frame of roughly 25 years.

Another thing to note is that when we last saw Jughead, it was last in the custody/possession of Richard Alpert and the Widmore Others. They were the hostiles of the Island - protecting it from outside forces (which, in 1954 was the US Military).

Hence, given the limited information that we were last left with, Jughead was in the hands of the hostiles and it was the hostiles that were given the advice by Faraday to seal the bomb with lead and bury it somewhere. So if this ultimately ended up being the game plan, we have to keep in mind that the burial of such a dangerous device was at the discretion of the hostiles and their objectives/agenda. Or, at least, this what we are left to presume, given the last known disposition of the hydrogen bomb.

Now, let's flash forward to the 1970's-early 1990's era of the Dharma Initiative. They are not the hostiles. It is the hostiles that they are fighting against. But, as we all know, the concept and construction of the Swan station was all the work of the Dharma Initiative.

/snip



That last sentence is an enormous assumption. We know little to nothing about the formation of the DI nor their historical relationship with the hostiles/others.

All we have seen is propaganda, and I don't know about you but I haven't trusted a damn thing on this show since at least when Ben/ry was locked in the swan.

I didn't think H-bombs' detonating components could last that long.

In our world, Jughead exploded.

Actually, based on the wikipedia entry Operation Castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Castle), Jughead wasn't used in the test for which it was scheduled.

Jughead was a proven liquid deuterium fuel design that was nonetheless considered impractical compared to untested solid lithium fuel designs. It and another liquid deuterium fuel bomb were originally scheduled as the 4th and 3rd test of the operation, respectively, in case the solid lithium design didn't pan out. The U.S. was concerned about keeping ahead of the Soviets, so they wanted to cover all bases.

The first test of the project, a dry lithium bomb called "Shrimp", yielded 2.5x the expected power and caused destruction and fallout over a far larger area than expected. To say that the dry lithium design passed muster is a huge understatement, so the wet deuterium fuel tests were dropped. The 3rd test was cancelled and the 4th test, called YANKEE, went forward with a dry lithium bomb, similar to Shrimp but with a smaller yield.

So, even though the YANKEE test went forward, Jughead was never detonated. In our universe it was likely dismantled, or it may have ended up on a mysterious island in the South Pacific.
100%
I didn't think H-bombs' detonating components could last that long.

You may be right. But I didn't think that people could look the same age after 50 years either. There are time issues on the island that haven't been explained by time-jumps.
100%
Another thing to note is that when we last saw Jughead, it was last in the custody/possession of Richard Alpert and the Widmore Others. They were the hostiles of the Island - protecting it from outside forces (which, in 1954 was the US Military).
......
Now, let's flash forward to the 1970's-early 1990's era of the Dharma Initiative. They are not the hostiles. It is the hostiles that they are fighting against. But, as we all know, the concept and construction of the Swan station was all the work of the Dharma Initiative.

While you have taken a lot for granted that Jughead couldn't have changed hands several times over the years, I agree with you that most likely the Hostiles buried Jughead in the 1950's and Dharma built the Swan in or before 1980.

However, it is certainly conceiveable that Dharma intentionally built the Swan adjacent to and around the buried and concrete-encased Jughead.