Hopefully we start getting some back story on the relationship between Ben, Danielle, and ultimately Alex.

Danielle came to the island pregnant so that would mean Ben isn't the father right? Sorry if this has been confirmed or if I'm just forgetting or if it's in another thread, but I thought that was a tad interesting.

If Ben viewed Alex as special somehow because she was born on the island, and Keamy killed her, Ben mentioning the rules changing might moreso have something to do with thinking Alex was some kind of heir to the island? Maybe Ben thought Alex was supposed to fill the role that Aaron may fill one day as being part of the lineage of Christian Shephard. (Hence the title "the Little Prince")

Um, anyways, lots of disjointed thoughts, but anyone have any other observations on how seeing Danielle pregnant "pre-Ben" changes things at all?

Not being rude... Maybe you missed it or forgot (I forget lots of things about this show so many details :smile:)... Robert (part of Danielle's team) is Alex's biological father. All of Danielle's team was killed. Danielle gave birth to Alex on the island, Ben's crew kidnapped Alex. Ben is not Danielle's biological father but he raised Alex as his own.

I was thinking a lot about this myself. Only here is one thing that got me thinking something different:
Charles Widmore and Ben are fighting for the island. Charles had his men kill Alex, and Ben told Charles he changed the rules and would come after Penny.
Well, I am not sure Charles changed the rules because Alex isn't his biological father. So Alex was probably able to be killed, but not sure Penny will be able to be killed, especially if she goes with Desmond back to the island. We know from last night now, that Alex really was Danielle's and not Ben's, unless they miraculously met and she was pregnant with Ben's baby, but I don't think so. That is a little far fetched.

Not being rude... Maybe you missed it or forgot (I forget lots of things about this show so many details :smile:)... Robert (part of Danielle's team) is Alex's biological father. All of Danielle's team was killed. Danielle gave birth to Alex on the island, Ben's crew kidnapped Alex. Ben is not Danielle's biological father but he raised Alex as his own.

No sir not rude at all - actually was just the reminder I needed of what happened, so many thanks!

As for the other poster, I think that is true. The rules wouldn't have changed like you said, because Ben wasn't actually Alex's father, so I am liking the possibility that it will be highly unlikely Ben will be able to kill her. In fact, if the rules really haven't changed, maybe Ben's attempts to kill Penny in the future will be foiled, much like Michael's suicide attempt, car crash, etc...

All of Danielle's team was killed.

Do we have any evidence that shows that Danielle is the one who killed them. For some reason this is stuck in my head, but I can't for the life of me remember why...?
100%
Well, I am not sure Charles changed the rules because Alex isn't his biological father. So Alex was probably able to be killed, but not sure Penny will be able to be killed, especially if she goes with Desmond back to the island.

Actually because of the whole Lil Charlie might be Charles Widmore thing, there was a lot of speculation that Charles ISN'T Penny's biological father...which actually, might make a certain type of sense and symmetry with the whole Ben/Alex thing.

Just pondering aloud.

Technically, we don't KNOW that Robert was Alex's biological father. He was Danielle's "love." Stranger things have happened (especially on LOST).

And we still don't KNOW that Ben is NOT Alex's biological father. He could have impregnated Danielle off-island, then arranged for her and her crew to "crash" so the baby would be born on his island. I don't think this will actually turn out to be the case . . . just pointing out that there are still ambiguities and nothing has been proven (other than that Danielle was indeed pregnant when she arrived).

Maybe Ben thinks ANY child born on the Island may be of help in some way.
Walt.
Aaron.
Alex.

And we still don't KNOW that Ben is NOT Alex's biological father. He could have impregnated Danielle off-island, then arranged for her and her crew to "crash" so the baby would be born on his island. I don't think this will actually turn out to be the case . . . just pointing out that there are still ambiguities and nothing has been proven (other than that Danielle was indeed pregnant when she arrived).
Okay... in the same way there are still ambiguities that Locke isn't Alex's real biological father. Or that Juliette isn't Alex's real biological father. Juliette IS time traveling, after all, and being a fertility specialist, should could turn herself into a man and then meet up with Danielle. They haven't definitively shown anything to rule it out. They have therefore intentionally left it ambiguous.:rolleyes:

Maybe Ben thinks ANY child born on the Island may be of help in some way.
Walt.
Aaron.
Alex.
That's what I was thinking, except we don't know for sure Walt was born on the Island.

Kinda like Kate telling Claire, (Aaron) he belongs to all of us when Claire was freaking out about giving birth. Maybe the Island feels like children born on the Island also belong to it. Or a the very least children born on the Island have a very SPECIAL connection to the Island. Looks like Miles and Charlotte are going to turn out to be Island babies too....

Could "changing the rules" mean killing Island children?

Another "rule" could be related to what happened to Juliet back in SISL when she got marked. Apparently, Others are not to kill other Others. Widmore was an Other and so was Alex...Is that what Ben was referring to? So now its the old Other "eye for an eye" punishment?

I thought it was odd that at the end of the episode Ben made a big deal about Kate calling Aaron her son. He'd been calling Alex his daughter for 16 years when she wasn't so why call Kate out on it?

I thought it was odd that at the end of the episode Ben made a big deal about Kate calling Aaron her son. He'd been calling Alex his daughter for 16 years when she wasn't so why call Kate out on it?

That's great, JThree. Kate should have asked Ben why he called Alex his daughter!!

Okay... in the same way there are still ambiguities that Locke isn't Alex's real biological father. Or that Juliette isn't Alex's real biological father. Juliette IS time traveling, after all, and being a fertility specialist, should could turn herself into a man and then meet up with Danielle. They haven't definitively shown anything to rule it out. They have therefore intentionally left it ambiguous.:rolleyes:

Hmmm . . . So many people on (or involved with) this **** island eventually turn out to be related . . .

How about this take: Ben sends Danielle, Karl, and Alex to the Temple. Ok, out of the 3, pick 2 that don't belong. Danielle and Karl. He hopes they get shot, that's why he's sending them out there. Two pain in the rear end's gone with one trip. He just knows that they're not going to kill Alex, because that's against the rules. When Ben tells Alex she has to leave because if she's captured they'll use her against him, he's counting on that. Ben's thinking that by returning with Alex, Keamey will expose himself. Then Ben can deal with Keamey and get his daughter back in one move.

But, his plan backfires costing Alex her life because they changed the rules. To back up this line of thinking, you'll remember that he told Karl that the temple wasn't for Hurley etc, it was only for them. Yeah right, can't have Hurley dead, Ben knows he'll need Hurley later. He sees a chance to do away Danielle and Cageboy Karl without getting any dirt on his hands.

Whatever the rules, I'm sure Widmore probably abides by the credo that to win a war, you need to be willing to do what your enemy won't. Where the loophole might be is that Alex is not Ben's blood. She's not his blood daughter. She's just somebody he cares about. And most importantly of all: she may have not been on the list. Jacobs list.

Ben might have just adopted her/brought her in on his own, defying Jacob. But, when the rubber hits the road, she may not have been considered a true Other. So she's fair game....

Ben's a manipulator, but he also lies by omission and lies straight out.He says they don't kill innocent people, but when Locke tells him he just blew everybody on the boat up by killing Keamey, Ben just says "So...". Looks like the rulebook mighta just went flyin' out the window...
(<>..<>)

I thought it was clear from prior episodes that Ben was not Alex' biological father? In any event, I think that any baby born on the island is probably 'special' in some way...

Maybe Ben thinks ANY child born on the Island may be of help in some way.
Walt.
Aaron.
Alex.

Walt???
100%
I'm amazed/confused by the number of people who think that Ben was Alex's biological father. Especially the people who have been around for a couple of years so they are obviously not new to the show.

I realize that with Lost, anything is possible, but everything they have told us so far has led us to believe that Danielle was already pregnant when she came to the island and Alex was taken by the Others soon after she was born.

No disrespect or condescension is intented by this post. I know it's easy to overlook or forget alot of details from the past 4 years, but I think this particular story line has been a significant part of the story. :)

I am starting to wonder if "changing the rules" between Ben and Widmore has nothing to do with their competition for the island but a comment on the nature of time on the island. I think that the event that will culminate the series next year has already happened from Ben and Widmore's perspectives. If an earlier Donkey wheel event happened when younger Ben and Widmore were on the island, they could have had time flashes like the leftbehinders that took them to the island future. They saw themselves - and Alex - in this island future. They know that whatever happens in the conflict between them, they are alive at this future date. Like Michael, they literally cannot die. Might even explain some of Widmore and Ben's success in manipulating people - they have no fear of death. But if Alex's death "broke the rules", then we either have to find out that Ms. Hawking was lying about nature of time travel. . . Desmond isn't the only one who is "special" in temporal matters. . . or that Alex has an evil twin.

This would even explain why Ben was so cavalier about the O6 leaving for the freighter - it didn't matter if they left, he already knew they would be there in the future.

Originally Posted by JThree http://forum.thefuselage.com/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=2081695#post2081695)
I thought it was odd that at the end of the episode Ben made a big deal about Kate calling Aaron her son. He'd been calling Alex his daughter for 16 years when she wasn't so why call Kate out on it?

Kate once said - as we were recently reminded - that the baby (Aaron) was all of theirs.

Yet her decisions regarding his upbringing now are made unilaterally.

Ben also said (among other things granted :rolleyes: ) that it wasn't him took Alex, suggesting he was selected as her parent by another party.

Liplocked, when did Ben say that he was picked to be Alex's parent? I really don't remember this scene, im wracking my brains! Up till now I always assumed Ben had stolen Alex as it were. He seems to have a thing about children...