The security system for the Temple?

Well, it for sure comes up from underground....it must protect the sacred places on the Island. It must travel via the underground passageways we saw on the Blast Door map.

That was really a rather short appearance. I expecting it to show up again later in the episode.

I still don't understand it's motivations, though. It killed one person and dragged another person into the temple? Then disappeared even though it took that guy's arm off. The people who went in after survived... What does it want?

That was really a rather short appearance. I expecting it to show up again later in the episode.

I still don't understand it's motivations, though. It killed one person and dragged another person into the temple? Then disappeared even though it took that guy's arm off. The people who went in after survived... What does it want?

I was wondering the same thing. How is it protecting the temple if it pretty much let everyone survive beside armless man.

Does it apparently give them a sickness? I guess that is its defense in its heyday.

My first thought that one man was enough at a time to "feed" it :grin: OR it could be that it read Montand's thoughts and found him unworthy to be in the Temple. How and why it brainwashed Robert and Brennan is a mystery to me. :shrug:

The sickness is still pretty ambiguous and they haven't really established if it's real or not... Could still just be Rousseau out of her mind. At some point she must have come to think the people who came into contact with the monster were "sick" but we still haven't seen anything to prove this. Are they sick? Did the monster do it? What was that guy's motivation for trying to shoot her?

But did they really survive? The guy's arm was ripped off for pete's sake, and he is calling for help in a normal tone, instead of screaming in agony?

I think Smokey can possess bodies somehow. That its an intelligent entity.

I'd think having your arm ripped out would cause you to at least lose consciousness... you're going to lose a lot of blood from severing the brachial artery at least.

I am still wondering how Robert knew that much about smokey so quickly....

How and why it brainwashed Robert and Brennan is a mystery to me. :shrug:
I don't understand how Smokie takes folks over, either.
Maybe he took over Locke, back when Locke thought he saw something "beautiful". John's as protective of the island as Smokie is of the temple. Same difference, really.

I was wondering the same thing. How is it protecting the temple if it pretty much let everyone survive beside armless man.

Does it apparently give them a sickness? I guess that is its defense in its heyday.
Maybe I just need time to let it all sink in but I too am confused as to Smokie's purpose. It did take Montand(ewwwwww scene btw!) but it also seemed to pull in the others via Montand's pleas for help.I have a feeling that was Smokey not Montand asking them to come down and help him.

I am not sure that the sickness is the same sickness that Minowski and Des had....

Arrrrghhhhh...I am confused!!! Did Smokey make Danielle's crew "sick"????

The only thing I know for sure is that it's lair or origin is under the Island. And it seems to want certain people dead or incapacitated.

I am still wondering how Robert knew that much about smokey so quickly....
Because Smokie took over Robert; that was Smokie talking, not Robert. Smokie was controlling him...

I am still wondering how Robert knew that much about smokey so quickly....

Me too! Even Juliet doesn't know what it is and she has lived with the Others for over 3 years. Danielle obviously believed him though, as she told the Losties back in the season one finale that the smoke monster is a "security system."

Yeah that part was weird... Although it could have just been lazy writing/acting. Maybe the actor didn't see fit to cry out like he was in real agony, or maybe it was really the monster trying to lure other people in for some reason.

I don't know about possessing people though.

Also, the amount of time that passed between the monster attack and the standoff at the beach wasn't really established. How much time has passed? The guy said it was just a security system, and to be honest that sounds more so informed than observed. I would never describe a deadly cloud of black smoke as a security system, even if I thought it was protecting something. I might say, "that thing kills you if you get too close to that weird building over there", but I wouldn't say, "it's a security system that protects the temple" unless I had been specifically informed that's what it does and what it is.

I was wondering the same thing. How is it protecting the temple if it pretty much let everyone survive beside armless man.

Does it apparently give them a sickness? I guess that is its defense in its heyday.
It sure didn't give poor Nadine a break! She was DEAD and slammed to the ground.

I also thought it was Smokey's voice calling them down to help him, and that Montand(?) was already dead. I thought the scene was totally creepy, and would have LOVED to have seen more. Really wish we had stuck with this monster-sickness-possession for longer.

It was definitely Smokey talking.

Why are people asking if we can get more proof of the sickness? Robert tried to kill her!!

It was great to see Smokey again!! So, he guards the Temple!??! Very interesting... Seems very alien...

Can't shed any light on what he does with the people once they go into the Temple. Because he doesn't seem to "eat" them - he did the same to Nadine that he did to Eko or the Pilot - maybe crush them to death? There's something that happens to the people when they go into the Temple.

To add to my previous post, I don't think there's a lot of evidence of possession.

Montand did try to kill Alex but we don't know why. More importantly we don't know how much time passed between the monster attack and the standoff on the beach. Hours? Days? Weeks? I believe Rousseau was still pregnant so there's a limit to how much time it could have been. But let's say it were days; Montand could have talked to someone or found out something in that time. This whole show has lots of characters manipulated into certain actions based on their knowledge (and lack thereof), and ending up in conflicts because they have different ideas about things. We don't know what knowledge Montand was acting off of... He could have had legitimate or ill-informed reasons to want to kill Rousseau, and Rousseau believing he was sick could be based on her own observations, lack of knowledge, etc.
100%
So, he guards the Temple!??!
He at least used to.
100%
he did the same to Nadine that he did to Eko or the Pilot - maybe crush them to death?
One thing I like to point out is the monster's never done anything as nasty as what it did to the pilot... Do you remember? The first thing that happened is his blood sprayed across the window. When they found him he was mutilated. Shannon got a similar treatment, albeit in Boone's dream.

In comparison, Eko's and Nadine's corpses seem pretty tame!

It was definitely Smokey talking.

Why are people asking if we can get more proof of the sickness? Robert tried to kill her!!
I agree it was smokey talking...luring the rest of Montand's group down to its lair.

My confusion about the sickness is not that he had it so much as did Smokey cause the sickness or is it the sickness like some of the freighter folks had?
100%
To add to my previous post, I don't think there's a lot of evidence of possession.

Montand did try to kill Alex but we don't know why. More importantly we don't know how much time passed between the monster attack and the standoff on the beach. Hours? Days? Weeks? I believe Rousseau was still pregnant so there's a limit to how much time it could have been. But let's say it were days; Montand could have talked to someone or found out something in that time. This whole show has lots of characters manipulated into certain actions based on their knowledge (and lack thereof), and ending up in conflicts because they have different ideas about things. We don't know what knowledge Montand was acting off of... He could have had legitimate or ill-informed reasons to want to kill Rousseau, and Rousseau believing he was sick could be based on her own observations, lack of knowledge, etc.
100%

He at least used to.
100%

One thing I like to point out is the monster's never done anything as nasty as what it did to the pilot... Do you remember? The first thing that happened is his blood sprayed across the window. When they found him he was mutilated. Shannon got a similar treatment, albeit in Boone's dream.

In comparison, Eko's and Nadine's corpses seem pretty tame!
I've always thought Smokey killed Steve/Scott too....his bones were all crushed as well.

One thing I like to point out is the monster's never done anything as nasty as what it did to the pilot... Do you remember? The first thing that happened is his blood sprayed across the window. When they found him he was mutilated. Shannon got a similar treatment, albeit in Boone's dream.

In comparison, Eko's and Nadine's corpses seem pretty tame!

Yeah. Smokey definitely did something different to the pilot than it did to the others.

It was definitely Smokey talking.

Why are people asking if we can get more proof of the sickness? Robert tried to kill her!!

But why would Smokey want (Robert) to kill Danielle?

Maybe Smokey kills anyone he can't control, anyone whose will is too strong. Maybe the real reason certain people didn't make it to Jacob's list was that they couldn't be remade. This would explain Cindy's quick turn around after the other's took her.

Yeah. Smokey definitely did something different to the pilot than it did to the others.
It almost seemed if Smokey was really mad at the pilot!
Smokey does seem to show up when outsiders arrive... and 815's crash was a major disruption...could Smokey have been taking it out on the one who piloted the plane? Like... How dare you bring a plane full of outsiders here and leave your wreckage all over my Island!!!! :coolorng:

It almost seemed if Smokey was really mad at the pilot!
Smokey does seem to show up when outsiders arrive... and 815's crash was a major disruption...could Smokey have been taking it out on the one who piloted the plane? Like... How dare you bring a plane full of outsiders here and leave your wreckage all over my Island!!!! :coolorng:

More like "you're not supposed to be here...you and that Eko cat. Where are the people that are supposed to be here???" Interesting Frank was "supposed" to be on the island, and he ended up making it there. I think that ties into why the replacement pilot got walloped so hard.

But did they really survive? The guy's arm was ripped off for pete's sake, and he is calling for help in a normal tone, instead of screaming in agony?

I think Smokey can possess bodies somehow. That its an intelligent entity.

I'd think having your arm ripped out would cause you to at least lose consciousness... you're going to lose a lot of blood from severing the brachial artery at least.

Did you see the steel jaws in Smokey? waiting for a screen cap of the dragging scene....not ripped off....bitten off. YIKES

I think a more intersting question is about Robert's gun:

If in the exchange with Danielle Robert wasn't Robert but Smokey, then why did Robert's gun not fire? Did the Island step in--The Island won't let you die--because Danielle would be needed later on? She had a part to play with the 815ers, so she isn't allowed to die until Keamy shows up when her part is over? If Smokey wanted to kill Danielle because she ventured too close to the Temple, and Smokey was using those who went underground to carry out the job of killing anyone who wasn't allowed access, then did it not have final authority to kill Danielle? If so, then Smokey takes orders and is required to obey.

BTW, if Smokey takes orders from the Island, that means our Island has way more knowledge of events, both past and future, than we've imagined so far. That makes the Island something that exists OUTSIDE of time or at least on some other plane of existance where time isn't linear.

I am still wondering how Robert knew that much about smokey so quickly....

Yeah that part was weird... Although it could have just been lazy writing/acting. Maybe the actor didn't see fit to cry out like he was in real agony, or maybe it was really the monster trying to lure other people in for some reason.

I don't know about possessing people though.

Also, the amount of time that passed between the monster attack and the standoff at the beach wasn't really established. How much time has passed? The guy said it was just a security system, and to be honest that sounds more so informed than observed. I would never describe a deadly cloud of black smoke as a security system, even if I thought it was protecting something. I might say, "that thing kills you if you get too close to that weird building over there", but I wouldn't say, "it's a security system that protects the temple" unless I had been specifically informed that's what it does and what it is.

From Jack Sawyer in thread Did Jin Save Danielle's life?. Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.
Here it is:

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.


While Montand's arm doesn't look like it's been out for two months, this timeline gives those that went down the Smoke Hole a chance to revisit the temple, perhaps receive some kind of instruction or education on what goes on there, what it's all about. In that time Danielle could begin to notice her comrads acting strangely. She could have removed the firing pin at any point in that time frame, once she was certain that her crew/friends were sick.

The dug out temporary shelter and still being camped on the beach is off, but I can chalk that up to writing error. They've got a lot of details to keep on their plates, I can let that one slide, if it is the case.



Also, what would have happened to Locke if he had been dragged down the hole, like he wanted, at the end of season one? That Locke, less fortified in his beliefs but putting up a nice front? Jack may have saved his life, because it sure looked like Robert, after talking about Rousseau and their child and getting her to lower her weapon, acted pretty fast to try and gun her down.

Whatever happened under ground, it wasn't a good thing.

What I want to know is what has the Smoke Monster (aka, the Black Smoke) looked increasingly grey in the last two seasons?

What I want to know is what has the Smoke Monster (aka, the Black Smoke) looked increasingly grey in the last two seeasons?

He is going through the same treatment as Michael Jackson

He is going through the same treatment as Michael Jackson

haha, yeah, but seriously...why would they change that? He looked more sinister when he was black (unlike Michael Jackson). Ever since The Shape of Things to Come he's been looking different.

haha, yeah, but seriously...why would they change that? He looked more sinister when he was black (unlike Michael Jackson). Ever since The Shape of Things to Come he's been looking different.
At least now we know why the Others are taking away all the children....




(SORRY, I COULDN'T RESIST!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:)

I def think that it was Smokey that lured the rest of the group down the hole. And I think Jin knew it, too, and that's why he wouldn't let Danielle go.

What I want to know is what has the Smoke Monster (aka, the Black Smoke) looked increasingly grey in the last two seasons?

I'm glad someone else thinks this appearance of the Smoke Monster differs from previous ones. I think he's darker in his last incarnation in TSOTTC, but I agree there is a difference over all in how he came out this time, with the times we've seen the monster in 2004.

There's a thread on this. I hope we see more of him in the up coming episodes to see if this was a one time thing or they're establishing a sort of timeline for Smokey's evolution, or degeneration. Sounds much more mechanical and is definitely more black when the losties meet him.

So primarily Smokie guards The Temple.
It can be summoned to the Barracks if needed.
Like somebody stated previously it went rogue. I think the incident made it short circuit/ malfunction. Why did Ben orders everyone to exit the house in one minute and to run for the tree line on his command? (TSOTTC) This mens that he doesnt have total control over it.

I don't think that's the same temple as the one Ben sent Alex and Rousseau too.

I don't think a safe haven would be let to fall in such disrepair. Not by Richard and any other Old Timers.

The more we see of Smoky, the more and more I think he is a...

...a nano creature. Maybe similar to Crighton's PREY creatures. A black/grey swarm of nanobots. It would explain his ability to take on the shape of previously dead people, mimic voices, move through the jungle as a cloud but form solid enough to grab people, be summoned, etc.

Maybe this has been discussed before but thought I'd throw it out there.

So if being dragged into Smokey's "lair" does something to you, then is Locke somehow an elaboration on this? Remember, he was dragged into one of those holes at the end of Season 1.

What I want to know is what was up with that ARM that slammed Nadine to the ground? It was like a wooden claw, and my first thought was "Oh, look, we get to see Smokey before he was smoke." The scene confused me.

In regards to the different colored smoke monster, whose to say that there is only ONE monster...perhaps there are many.

So we saw that the Monster was basically guarding the temple. There were similar glyphs on the wall that we've seen on the hatch countdown timer, the frozen donkey wheel and the door in which Ben went through to 'summon' the monster.

Firstly, I'm betting that the door Ben went through at the barracks leads to that temple. Which is where he went to summon it.

Secondly, I remember that the glyphs reprsent notions and ideas rather than literal words. I also remember one of them on the countdown timer representing 'underworld'. So is the Temple an entrance to some kind of of 'underworld'? A shelter of some kind? This would make sense in The Others wanting to go there when the Island was threatened etc, as well as Ben telling Alex to go there in S4.

Also, in mythology we all knew was the guardian to the underworld. Cerebus.

The more we see of Smoky, the more and more I think he is a...

...a nano creature. Maybe similar to Crighton's PREY creatures. A black/grey swarm of nanobots. It would explain his ability to take on the shape of previously dead people, mimic voices, move through the jungle as a cloud but form solid enough to grab people, be summoned, etc.

Maybe this has been discussed before but thought I'd throw it out there.


jsrockford your spoiler is a theory, the writers has disclaimed that theory. Besides in late December 2008 it was revealed by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse that the Island's "security system predates DHARMA"

I def think that it was Smokey that lured the rest of the group down the hole. And I think Jin knew it, too, and that's why he wouldn't let Danielle go.

i think you're right. my son said that to me, and he said it because the voice had no urgency to it. no hysteria or pain. i reminded me of stephen king's IT where the the monster would be in the sewer trying to entice the kiddies to come closer and closer. the lost writers love stephen king and vice versa!;)

i'll tell you, it was a thrilling scene. scary with anticipation and dread! kudos!

Need HD screencaps of Smokey. Anyone? I'll check around.

I think a more intersting question is about Robert's gun:
If in the exchange with Danielle Robert wasn't Robert but Smokey, then why did Robert's gun not fire? Did the Island step in--The Island won't let you die--because Danielle would be needed later on? She had a part to play with the 815ers, so she isn't allowed to die until Keamy shows up when her part is over? If Smokey wanted to kill Danielle because she ventured too close to the Temple, and Smokey was using those who went underground to carry out the job of killing anyone who wasn't allowed access, then did it not have final authority to kill Danielle? If so, then Smokey takes orders and is required to obey.
In her conversation with Sayiid in Solitary Danielle said that she had removed the firing pin from Robert's gun.

From first sight of Smokey:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-100.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-103.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-104.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-106.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-107.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-108.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-109.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-110.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-120.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-121.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-122.html

arm pull off: http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1466-127.html

I don't see any Smokey chompers.

What I want to know is what has the Smoke Monster (aka, the Black Smoke) looked increasingly grey in the last two seasons?

I kind of feel that the last few times we have seen Smoky, he is looking a little more grey and more 'fluffy' (for lack of a better word). Maybe the suggestion that the incident did something to him is valid - or maybe its something Ben has done to him. It seems that Ben can somewhat control Smoky. It reminds me of Jacob asking Locke to 'help' him - like Ben has somehow gotten control of these ancient things on the island...

This is the closest I can get to the moment when the arm is lost. I see no chompers.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/576ace9e7688c80ee88a4194da674c8c

So if being dragged into Smokey's "lair" does something to you, then is Locke somehow an elaboration on this? Remember, he was dragged into one of those holes at the end of Season 1.

Not like Montand, he wasn't. Jack kept him from being pulled down the Smoke Hole. Jack and Hurley and Kate.

Robert raising the gun on Danielle, his woman, after she lowered her, suggests to me that whatever happened down there it didn't change him for the better. I have to think after seeing that scene, that when Jack prevented Locke from going down that hole, he saved his life.

Locke's faith in the island was blind at that point, he wanted the smoke monster to be something more than it was. He wanted to believe that it was benign and beautiful and omniscient, imo.

It's not.

ETA: Thanks for posting links to the screencaps Laura. That first one is a nice shot of smokey low in the high grass. Seems much more like a predatory animal in this appearance.

More like "you're not supposed to be here...you and that Eko cat. Where are the people that are supposed to be here???" Interesting Frank was "supposed" to be on the island, and he ended up making it there. I think that ties into why the replacement pilot got walloped so hard.
Yeah, I thought about that too...going to scan the pilot and finding out its the wrong one!!

Either Eko was not supposed to be there or Eko's mind/will was too strong for Smokey to exert its mind-control mojo on him so it killed him.
Smokey can scan people's mind for memories, manifest itself into "people/animals" so its not such a reach to think Smokey can also "brain wash" people...or implant thoughts/beliefs.

Just a sidenote, but Danielle said that her team went crazy. And we saw that three of them made it out of the hole that smokey was in. Say you're one of those 3 guys and you ask Danielle where Jin is and she responds, "he just vanished into thin air." Who exactly is the one that is crazy? Granted a smoke monster just dragged one of their friends into a hole but they all saw that. I'm sure they may have thought Danielle was the crazy one.

Guess its just hard to say when we don't get to see how the other 2 (that were dead on the beach) were acting in such a way as to make them seem crazy/sick to Danielle

So primarily Smokie guards The Temple.
It can be summoned to the Barracks if needed.
Like somebody stated previously it went rogue. I think the incident made it short circuit/ malfunction. Why did Ben orders everyone to exit the house in one minute and to run for the tree line on his command? (TSOTTC) This mens that he doesnt have total control over it.

Maybe there is more than one smoke monster? One or more that have gone independent and one or more that are still "controlled" by whatever Ben did in New Otherton?

Maybe there is more than one smoke monster? One or more that have gone independent and one or more that are still "controlled" by whatever Ben did in New Otherton?

Yeah, a black one and a grey one....hell, maybe even a white one. :rolleyes:

Just a sidenote, but Danielle said that her team went crazy. And we saw that three of them made it out of the hole that smokey was in. Say you're one of those 3 guys and you ask Danielle where Jin is and she responds, "he just vanished into thin air." Who exactly is the one that is crazy? Granted a smoke monster just dragged one of their friends into a hole but they all saw that. I'm sure they may have thought Danielle was the crazy one.

Guess its just hard to say when we don't get to see how the other 2 (that were dead on the beach) were acting in such a way as to make them seem crazy/sick to Danielle

That's a new perspective. They think she's crazy after she tells them Jin just vanished. I like that :biggrin:

Yeah, a black one and a grey one....hell, maybe even a white one. :rolleyes:

We never got to see exactly what Locke saw when he was confronted by what he thought was the Smoke Monster. Was it some kind of sustained flash that Smokey gave off that seemed to light up John's face for the whole scene or was it a different appendage/form of the monster?

My first thought that one man was enough at a time to "feed" it :grin: OR it could be that it read Montand's thoughts and found him unworthy to be in the Temple. How and why it brainwashed Robert and Brennan is a mystery to me. :shrug:

Didn't Yemi's ghost try to do the same thing with Eko?

Maybe the 'sickness' is some sort of religous conversion to cleanse the mind/soul before entering the temple.

First post, i've been a bit of a lurker but i feel compelled to input into this one... bear with me as the idea is just forming in my head as I type it and I don't have much evidence...though i'm sure it's out there!!

The idea of consciousness time traveling got me thinking... if this is something that can move, almost like another entity... could be compared to a soul in a way? Its capable of moving through time, so what happens when you die? Is smokey a mass collection of consciousness's that have passed away on the island or consciousness's that have become lost during time travel?

This could explain why it seemed to be able to read eko's mind as it would have memories from his dead brother.... maybe this is also why it can show itself as Christian Shepard who's body arrived on the island... and why the "vision" of him knows so much about the island, it has access to all the other memories of people down the ages who have passed away on the island.

If the above is the case then smokey would know what is or isn't supposed to happen through the consciousness of dead time travellers? Hence it knows what should or shouldn't happen and thus why it takes people?

This could all tie in to the theory that time is a loop of some sort and smokey is almost trying to correct mistakes that have been made to complete the loop? He's cleaning up in effect... eg, the pilot shouldn't have been there, frank should have... so he took the pilot.

Hope that makes some sort of sense...

I think a more intersting question is about Robert's gun:

If in the exchange with Danielle Robert wasn't Robert but Smokey, then why did Robert's gun not fire? Did the Island step in--The Island won't let you die--because Danielle would be needed later on?


Danielle told Sayid in Solitary that she removed the firing pin. As for later on... I'm not sure.

I'm still clinging, however veinly, to the idea that Smokey consists of 'souls' (for want of a better word) of those who have died on the Island. It kills to sustain itself, and possesses omniscience. I'd be very surprised if this came true, but it would explain out the 'possession' (which I'm inclined to believe was smokey, after all, smokey will at some point have to somehow verbally communicate if we are to find out its secret, and how better than through possession?) as well as the whispers.

I'm still clinging, however veinly, to the idea that Smokey consists of 'souls' (for want of a better word) of those who have died on the Island. It kills to sustain itself, and possesses omniscience. I'd be very surprised if this came true, but it would explain out the 'possession' (which I'm inclined to believe was smokey, after all, smokey will at some point have to somehow verbally communicate if we are to find out its secret, and how better than through possession?) as well as the whispers.

I still think "Yemi" telling Eko, "You speak to me as if I were your brother" was the creepiest line in LOST history. Smoky speaks!!!

I am really amazed that no one in this thread saw what happened to the eyes of the french dude.. They went from blue to BRIGHT green when he looked directly at the monster! You can see it in several shots and I made a screencap: http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1193/picture57mw6.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture57mw6.jpg)
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/picture57mw6.jpg/1/w806.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img517/picture57mw6.jpg/1/)

I'm pretty sure it's something supernatural.. because it can look inside your soul.. hence the change of eye color!

First post, i've been a bit of a lurker but i feel compelled to input into this one... bear with me as the idea is just forming in my head as I type it and I don't have much evidence...though i'm sure it's out there!!

The idea of consciousness time traveling got me thinking... if this is something that can move, almost like another entity... could be compared to a soul in a way? Its capable of moving through time, so what happens when you die? Is smokey a mass collection of consciousness's that have passed away on the island or consciousness's that have become lost during time travel?

This could explain why it seemed to be able to read eko's mind as it would have memories from his dead brother.... maybe this is also why it can show itself as Christian Shepard who's body arrived on the island... and why the "vision" of him knows so much about the island, it has access to all the other memories of people down the ages who have passed away on the island.

If the above is the case then smokey would know what is or isn't supposed to happen through the consciousness of dead time travellers? Hence it knows what should or shouldn't happen and thus why it takes people?

This could all tie in to the theory that time is a loop of some sort and smokey is almost trying to correct mistakes that have been made to complete the loop? He's cleaning up in effect... eg, the pilot shouldn't have been there, frank should have... so he took the pilot.

Hope that makes some sort of sense...
It makes sense to me. I like the idea that the Smoke Monster or maybe the Island is a sort of collective gathering of souls of all those that have died on the Island. One's consciousness is not only one's mind and brain but one's "essence" or their soul.

I suspect Smokey is on Lost to represent the unknowable, the vague, the impossible to pin down, the tantalizing mystery, and vehicle for provoking fear, that IS NEVER EXPLAINED.

Probably they'll always leave Smokey unexplained.

I'm still clinging, however veinly, to the idea that Smokey consists of 'souls' (for want of a better word) of those who have died on the Island. It kills to sustain itself, and possesses omniscience. I'd be very surprised if this came true, but it would explain out the 'possession' (which I'm inclined to believe was smokey, after all, smokey will at some point have to somehow verbally communicate if we are to find out its secret, and how better than through possession?) as well as the whispers.

I'm into the whole collective soul and/or consciousness but I'm thinking its the Island itself that encompasses the souls of those who die there rather than Smokey only because the Smokey manifestations an/or possessions by Smokey do not seem to have souls. Smokey as Yemi seemed soul-less. And if Robert was implanted with thoughts by Smokey, he too seemed without a soul or even real genuine emotion during his confrontation with Danielle.
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The security system for the Temple?Robert said it was a security system for "that temple." There's no telling if those ruins are The Temple or not...

Why are people asking if we can get more proof of the sickness? Robert tried to kill her!!She was going to kill him a second earlier. She had also apparently just shot the other two guys. She could just as easily be the sick one...

But why would Smokey want (Robert) to kill Danielle?Exactly. And why would Smokey need Robert if he wanted Danielle dead in the first place?

Robert said it was a security system for "that temple." There's no telling if those ruins are The Temple or not...

She was going to kill him a second earlier. She had also apparently just shot the other two guys. She could just as easily be the sick one...

Exactly. And why would Smokey need Robert if he wanted Danielle dead in the first place?

There's an audio podcast done by Damon and Carlton on the episode that you can listen to on abc's site. DarkUFO has it as well. That issue of the temple is brought up.

I think Rousseau could have been testing Robert, hoping he wouldn't raise the gun and try to shoot her, to see if he was as different as Brennan and Lancomb who she had already shot, and who she had suspected of being "sick".

From their perspective though, they could have thought Rousseau was the sick one. They come out of the smoke hole, Jin is gone, she's trying to tell them that he just disappeared. Who's crazy or sick depends on which side of the story you get.

Though since Robert did raise the rifle, and pull the trigger on the women he loved who was carrying his child, I think that whatever went on down there in the Smoke Hole wasn't a good thing.

I don't know if Smokey wanted anything from them, but if they became enthralled by it or whatever by going down there, Danielle would be on the outside of that for not having gone down there. She wouldn't be one of the converted/possessed. And after she shot and killed the other two members of the team, I think Robert figured well, if she isn't with us, she's against us, so she's gotta go.

What went on down there to persuade a man in love, expecting child, to turn on his lover and unborn? Most have been pretty convincing/powerful.

When Robert was aiming at Rousseau (and subsequently pulled the trigger but it jammed) I found it very interesting that this situation was quite similar to when Michael was in the alley trying to shoot himself and the gun wouldnt fire...

Smokey/The Island was not finished with Rousseau, so it caused the gun to jam when Robert pulled the trigger... in order to ensure that events played out like they were supposed to...

This is the closest I can get to the moment when the arm is lost. I see no chompers.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/576ace9e7688c80ee88a4194da674c8c
My imagination got the best of me....the jaws were actually the soles of his boots moving in a V as he rotated over in the smoke....look twice before you post is my new motto....

When Robert was aiming at Rousseau (and subsequently pulled the trigger but it jammed) I found it very interesting that this situation was quite similar to when Michael was in the alley trying to shoot himself and the gun wouldnt fire...

Smokey/The Island was not finished with Rousseau, so it caused the gun to jam when Robert pulled the trigger... in order to ensure that events played out like they were supposed to...

The gun didn't jam. The consensus is that what we saw is what Rousseau first explained to Sayid. Robert didn't notice that the firing pin on the gun had been removed--we assume she was the one who removed it. No island intervention needed.

Smokey/The Island was not finished with Rousseau, so it caused the gun to jam when Robert pulled the trigger...The gun didn't fire because she removed the firing pin. She told this to Sayid and did the same thing to him in Season 1.

I think that the biggest thing we've missed is from the transcript of Solitary because it would imply that the writers planned this all along:

Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.

IT was them. It being Smokey. They, her crew, became the carriers of Smokey.

Ooooooooooo, now that is very, very, very interesting considering when that conversation took place.

My imagination got the best of me....the jaws were actually the soles of his boots moving in a V as he rotated over in the smoke....look twice before you post is my new motto....

No worries. Glad that's confirmed, though.

I think that the biggest thing we've missed is from the transcript of Solitary because it would imply that the writers planned this all along:

Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.

IT was them. It being Smokey. They, her crew, became the carriers of Smokey.

Ooooooooooo, now that is very, very, very interesting considering when that conversation took place.

Aah! Finally it makes sense! Thank you Pink Human. I never understood that. I was misinterpreting it the whole time.

So if being dragged into Smokey's "lair" does something to you, then is Locke somehow an elaboration on this? Remember, he was dragged into one of those holes at the end of Season 1.

He never went into the hole. Jack threw some dynamite down the hole and the monster let go.

Yay, first real post... More questions than answers, but here goes.

So I am totally on the 'possession' track.

The interaction between Danielle/Robert reminded me so much of the interaction between Yemi/Eko... So creepy.

I totally agree also that Montand would not be quite so calm if he really lost an arm ( I am pretty sure that actually killed him).

So if Smokey can take the form of someone who died...

1. Is he possessing the actual body?

If so, How are they able to disappear so quickly, and why is Yemi not a rotting corpse?

If not, Why are the men's bodies there on the beach?

2. Does Smokey have to be what killed them, or do they need to die on the island?

If not, could Christian Shepard be the same sort of thing? His body was on the island and disappeared as well.

How does the island/Smokey choose who to possess?

Looking at the screen shots someone posted I noticed 2 doors that I did not notice while watching because I was focused on the characters, anyway why is it that Smokey is coming out of a crack and a hole in the side of temple and not the doors if it is the security system for the place? It made me think that maybe the "temple" was really something to contain the creature. Just a thought.

Looking at the screen shots someone posted I noticed 2 doors that I did not notice while watching because I was focused on the characters, anyway why is it that Smokey is coming out of a crack and a hole in the side of temple and not the doors if it is the security system for the place? It made me think that maybe the "temple" was really something to contain the creature. Just a thought.
Ooooooh!!! Nice catch!! Maybe you're right...maybe instead of it's home,it was Smokey's prison! That could very well be since it seems really unlikely that what we saw was The Temple. Those Hieros from the Swan translated as first "Cause to Die" then "Underworld"...so Smokey is kept prisionner?
Hmmmmm...I need to think about that but I really like that idea!
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I'm into the whole collective soul and/or consciousness but I'm thinking its the Island itself that encompasses the souls of those who die there rather than Smokey only because the Smokey manifestations an/or possessions by Smokey do not seem to have souls. Smokey as Yemi seemed soul-less. And if Robert was implanted with thoughts by Smokey, he too seemed without a soul or even real genuine emotion during his confrontation with Danielle.
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Omigosh! SL, that fits what Cherann posted about Smokey being kept contained or imprisoned....he's not one of the good guys! And yes,Smokey may have "intelligence" but the Monster has no soul.

I think that the biggest thing we've missed is from the transcript of Solitary because it would imply that the writers planned this all along:

Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.

IT was them. It being Smokey. They, her crew, became the carriers of Smokey.

Ooooooooooo, now that is very, very, very interesting considering when that conversation took place.

Agree with that. Not sure if it was this thread or another one (you lose track after a while:cool:) but I'd come to the same conclusion.

Looking at the screen shots someone posted I noticed 2 doors that I did not notice while watching because I was focused on the characters, anyway why is it that Smokey is coming out of a crack and a hole in the side of temple and not the doors if it is the security system for the place? It made me think that maybe the "temple" was really something to contain the creature. Just a thought.

As Creflo suggested in another thread, the temple is a man made structure that sits atop a place where the real mojo happens. The Well of Souls where the Arc of the Covenant resides (not literally, to use his example).

That's why we see Smokey coming from under ground, why the FDW is underground, why Ben's secret secret door in his closet looks like an entrance to a cave. It, whatever force or juju or magic it is, it comes from underneath the groun.

What I want to know is what has the Smoke Monster (aka, the Black Smoke) looked increasingly grey in the last two seasons?

Old age?

I think that the biggest thing we've missed is from the transcript of Solitary because it would imply that the writers planned this all along:

Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.

IT was them. It being Smokey. They, her crew, became the carriers of Smokey.


Do you mean Smokey was imitating Robert and Co. just as he took the form of Yemi? Smoky took turns being one of the men and then Danielle up and shot the real ones?

Or do you mean that Daniell'e crew somehow "channeled" the monster? "It was them" Good catch! I never thought of those words in that way.

Question. Ben went down into Smoky's lair after Keamy killed Alex. Why didn't it change him?

Or are the candidates for leadership taken to the Temple when they are young and brought before Smoky for a thorough mind inspection? They exit the experience with a compulsion to protect the Temple and the Island at all costs, even murder? That would be handy to screen out wrong candidates so they could choose the right leader but not so handy if Smoky broke free and performing the inspection on anyone who came near the ruins. You're not worthy so up a tree with you! Smokie did demand that Echo present himself for judgment.

Is that what changed Ben into the kind of person who could kill his father? Does Ben channel the Smoke monster at times? Or is he able to control the "Smoke monster within" until he gets very emotional and then loses control and out it comes? Is Smokey the Hulk only a different color?

I think that the biggest thing we've missed is from the transcript of Solitary because it would imply that the writers planned this all along:

Transcript of Rousseau from Solitary.

DANIELLE: Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.

IT was them. It being Smokey. They, her crew, became the carriers of Smokey.

Ooooooooooo, now that is very, very, very interesting considering when that conversation took place.

Hi Pink, Maybe I'm just being extra dense at the moment but what do you mean, "when it took place"?

It seemed like the smoke monster growled at Montand, did anyone else notice that? It sure seemed to kill Nadine quietly.

Here is what really interests me:
I wonder why the smoke monster killed Nadine but chose to drag Montand down in the ground? Also, it didn't harm Locke or Eko after their first encounters, but the second time around tried to drag Locke in the hole and killed Eko. What is the smoke monster's selection process?

Lobby, I think because Ben went to summon the smoke monster it's different. He didn't get dragged through the jungle and pulled down a hole.

Ben would be in a position to know how to summon or call the Smoke Monster. I don't think Ben or anyone would be able to just control smokey if they came across him in the jungle. That's why they have a sonic fence. I think they try to avoid the Smoke Monster in the wild for just that reason, you don't know if Smokey's going to kill you, or drag you down a hole and do gods know what to you.

I think Ben and Richard and Company have a measure of control over Smokey, or rather arent' suseptible to it's thrall, by summoning it.

It seemed like the smoke monster growled at Montand, did anyone else notice that? It sure seemed to kill Nadine quietly.

Here is what really interests me:
I wonder why the smoke monster killed Nadine but chose to drag Montand down in the ground? Also, it didn't harm Locke or Eko after their first encounters, but the second time around tried to drag Locke in the hole and killed Eko. What is the smoke monster's selection process?
That's what I don't get. It killed Montand and Nadine but let the other 3 guys live. And same with Keamy and his mercanaries..it didn't kill them all. I would say it kills those it perceives as a threat but I can't see Nadine as being a threat.
Maybe it needed Montand to get the others down the hole?

That's what I don't get. It killed Montand and Nadine but let the other 3 guys live. And same with Keamy and his mercanaries..it didn't kill them all. I would say it kills those it perceives as a threat but I can't see Nadine as being a threat.I agree. And why would only one of Keamy's people be a target?

There are way too many inconsistencies in the scenes with Smokey we've already seen to only draw conclusions based on the current episode. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Sickness" was more Temple-related than Smokey-related.

The security system for the Temple?

Well, it for sure comes up from underground....it must protect the sacred places on the Island. It must travel via the underground passageways we saw on the Blast Door map.

Not sure - But I do know one thing......that was one of the very best SMOKIE scenes in Lost history! So great! I was yelling at my TV when the sky turned white though!!!!
Was hoping we would get to see what it looked like down inside the temple and stuff!
Damn - so close! :mad::mad::mad:

But why would Smokey want (Robert) to kill Danielle?

Hmmm... Maybe it has something to do with Alex, the changing of the rules, and the future of the Island?

Danielle's "IT was them" was from a conversation from season 1, yes? If so, that would mean that the writers had an idea of where they were going way back then even though fans were frustrated and sure that the writers did not have an "overall" plan for their story.

Even if "IT was them" took place in season 2, the bottom line is that the writers intended Smokey to do exactly what we're now seeing IT do with much greater clarity based on the storyline. They specifically wrote Danielle's comment to be understood in hindsight by choosing the words ever so carefully.

This purposefullness on the part of the writers makes me all the more curious since the SOUNDS we are now clearly hearing from Smokey have become much clearer over time. We really should go back and listen to what Smokey SAYS (when possessing someone) as well as the sounds Smokey makes when scanning or hunting someone. We've never really listened to hear what SMOKEY has been saying since we've assumed that we were listening to a different character rather than our favorite Smoke Monster.

And as an aside, if someone has a screencap of the glyphs on the outer wall of the Temple structure, let me know where to look. I'm wanting an actual screencap, not just the glyphs cut and pasted onto a blank document. Translation is always about context, and since I read in another thread that WATER might be connected to one of the glyphs, I'm much more than a tad curious.

The writers love their religious images, and during Eko's flashback prior to the fatal smackdown with Smokey, we saw a huge Biblical allusion to Pilate's washing his hand in water to signify that Pilate did not hold himself responsible for the actions that followed when Eko washes his hands in the basin of water in the African church and the girl tells him that "you can't do that" meaning that Eko couldn't forgive himself of his crimes. If the glyphs do have a connection to water, and the glyphs are about the purpose of the Temple, about what takes place there ....

Oh, come on. I cannot be the only thinking along these lines. :rolleyes:

Danielle's "IT was them" was from a conversation from season 1, yes? If so, that would mean that the writers had an idea of where they were going way back then even though fans were frustrated and sure that the writers did not have an "overall" plan for their story.

Even if "IT was them" took place in season 2, the bottom line is that the writers intended Smokey to do exactly what we're now seeing IT do with much greater clarity based on the storyline. They specifically wrote Danielle's comment to be understood in hindsight by choosing the words ever so carefully.

This purposefullness on the part of the writers makes me all the more curious since the SOUNDS we are now clearly hearing from Smokey have become much clearer over time. We really should go back and listen to what Smokey SAYS (when possessing someone) as well as the sounds Smokey makes when scanning or hunting someone. We've never really listened to hear what SMOKEY has been saying since we've assumed that we were listening to a different character rather than our favorite Smoke Monster.

And as an aside, if someone has a screencap of the glyphs on the outer wall of the Temple structure, let me know where to look. I'm wanting an actual screencap, not just the glyphs cut and pasted onto a blank document. Translation is always about context, and since I read in another thread that WATER might be connected to one of the glyphs, I'm much more than a tad curious.

The writers love their religious images, and during Eko's flashback prior to the fatal smackdown with Smokey, we saw a huge Biblical allusion to Pilate's washing his hand in water to signify that Pilate did not hold himself responsible for the actions that followed when Eko washes his hands in the basin of water in the African church and the girl tells him that "you can't do that" meaning that Eko couldn't forgive himself of his crimes. If the glyphs do have a connection to water, and the glyphs are about the purpose of the Temple, about what takes place there ....

Oh, come on. I cannot be the only thinking along these lines. :rolleyes:

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=2092076#post2092076
Here's a link. Kansasgirl seems to have gathered up relevant links pertaining to the translation of the hieroglyphs. I'm sure screencaps are somewhere in the thread as well. She's one of the research hounds behind figuring out what they mean. Good thread. There's a spoiler one as well.

Hmmm... Maybe it has something to do with Alex, the changing of the rules, and the future of the Island?
I wonder why Smokey didn't go after Danielle in its Smokey form if it wanted her dead...

It seems to me like the Island wasn't ready for Danielle to die. So that would mean that Smokey does not always listen to the Island or was Robert was not doing Smokey's bidding.I'm leaning towards Robert not being "possessed" by Smokey. I think the Island and Smokey wanted all the crew dead except Danielle/Alex.

But then I don't get why Smokey let Robert,Brennan, and Lacombe live in the first place unless maybe it wanted Danielle to kill them and further her descent into insanity?

Dang,I wanna know more about Smokey!! :p

I wonder what would have happened to Danielle if Smokey infected her. Would she still be able to give birth and what would Alex be? :eek2:

I don't understand how Smokie takes folks over, either.
Maybe he took over Locke, back when Locke thought he saw something "beautiful". John's as protective of the island as Smokie is of the temple. Same difference, really.

I wondered this as well. I also wondered if something happened to Jack as well in Season 1 when he and Kate and Charlie went to search out the front of the plane and found the pilot. At one point Jack went missing after the smoke monster appeared and Kate and Charlie finally found him and he said he was fine ... I wonder if he has the sickness, now, too. How would we even know?

I always thought Jack might have had his own confrontation with the Smoke Monster, like Locke or Eko, but refused to accept what he saw or acknowledge it. I wonder how many points in season one will be brought back up or tied into what's going on now and next year.

Originally Posted by addictedfan
The security system for the Temple?

Well, it for sure comes up from underground....it must protect the sacred places on the Island. It must travel via the underground passageways we saw on the Blast Door map.It sure looks like those tunnel rumors are finally coming true. It has been pointed out the Temple we saw was only a wall around the actual Temple, the 'caps of Jin there do show this...and the pics of Locke arriving at the "well" show more stone building sim. to the "phi" arch we saw at the fishcamp and this wall. It Just goes to show that those 'ancients' built all over the island, and likely those tunnels connect them all, and so these tunnels pre-date the Dharmas.
we saw that entry door to 'Smokey Joe's Cafe' in Benry's house; so Otherville was another ancient site that was built over by the Dharmas.

This purposefullness on the part of the writers makes me all the more curious since the SOUNDS we are now clearly hearing from Smokey have become much clearer over time. We really should go back and listen to what Smokey SAYS (when possessing someone) as well as the sounds Smokey makes when scanning or hunting someone. We've never really listened to hear what SMOKEY has been saying since we've assumed that we were listening to a different character rather than our favorite Smoke Monster.




The thing you have to remember about this is that the sounds are becoming clearer over time for us as we watch the show, but in the storyline, this is a younger version of Smokey. The version that Ecko, Locke, and the rest of the 815 survivors encounter is an "advanced" or older version of the smoke monster 16 years later.

As for the person that say the monster got grayer over time, it would actually be the opposite if you follow the timeline of the series. The monster actually got darker as time passed.

Originally Posted by addictedfan http://forum.thefuselage.com/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=2087879#post2087879)


It sure looks like those tunnel rumours are finally coming true. It has been pointed out the Temple was only a wall around the actual Temple, the caps of Jin there do show this...and the pics of Locke arriving at the "well" show more stone building sim. to the "phi" arch we saw at the fishcamp. Just shows that those 'ancients' built all over the island, and likely those tunnels connect them all, and these tunnels pre-date the Dharmas.

we saw that entry door to 'Smokey Joe's Cafe' in Benry's house; so it's another ancient site that was built over by the Dharmas.



Not to get too off topic here, but it would be cool at some point to see the island back at the time when these structures were well-maintained

Not to get too off topic here, but it would be cool at some point to see the island back at the time when these structures were well-maintained

my thoughts exactly too....that would even make a great stand-alone movie, imo.

Looking at the screen shots someone posted I noticed 2 doors that I did not notice while watching because I was focused on the characters, anyway why is it that Smokey is coming out of a crack and a hole in the side of temple and not the doors if it is the security system for the place? It made me think that maybe the "temple" was really something to contain the creature. Just a thought.

Building on this idea, I know that its been mentioned that the ring of gunpowder/gravel/whatever surrounding Jacob's Cabin might be a way to contain whatever Jacob is, but what if instead it is a makeshift way of keeping Smokey away from Jacob now that Smokey has escaped from this "prison"? There was the the scene where Smokey seemed to be taking a picture of Juliet...was he surveilling her to judge her goodness or was he looking for someone in particular?

because smokie took over robert; that was smokie talking, not robert. Smokie was controlling him...


absoultly.

I wonder what would have happened to Danielle if Smokey infected her. Would she still be able to give birth and what would Alex be? :eek2:

Alex would be a mini-smoke monster. :eek2: I wonder if the shots Claire got from the Swan were for the same "sickness" that Danielle is talking about. Is Danielle's and Kelvin's idea of the "sickness" the same?

I always thought Jack might have had his own confrontation with the Smoke Monster, like Locke or Eko, but refused to accept what he saw or acknowledge it. I wonder how many points in season one will be brought back up or tied into what's going on now and next year.

That would be very interesting. We know Jack as the type that would shake it off and say it wasn't real because he's a man of science. I've always wondered what happened to Jack (if anything) while he was briefly away.

There WAS that moment in the Pilot 2 when the monster was chasing Jack/Kate/Charlie and Jack fell behind... He could have seen it/it seen him then.

I'm wondering if there is any relation to smokie "possessing/hypnotizing" the male crew members into killing Daniel because she is pregnant...

Does smokie/the island not want women having babies? Will new babies on the island water down the native species/humans? Is that part of the "security" of the island?

Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but just couldn't look past the fact that she is obviously prego with Alex, and this show has placed such an emphasis on pregnant women and babies.

It was, what 2 months after they encountered Smokie. So she lived with her possessed crew for over 2 months before she killed 2 of them.

Why would we believe Robert saying it is a security system protecting the temple? Robert was full of it at that point.

Maybe Smokey kills anyone he can't control, anyone whose will is too strong.

Or Smokey just turns on anyone who is "not Smokey", and assumes they're threats.
Kind of like the pregnancy problem; Juliet said it was an immunity thing, in essence the mother's body attacks the developing fetus.
I smell a methaphor. :)
100%
At one point Jack went missing after the smoke monster appeared and Kate and Charlie finally found him and he said he was fine ... I wonder if he has the sickness, now, too. How would we even know?

If Jack had been Smokey-sick, he'd not have been so anti-island. IMO.

I dont think Smokey has got anything to do with the fertility problems, I do think that it was caused by The Incident.

Kind of like the pregnancy problem; Juliet said it was an immunity thing, in essence the mother's body attacks the developing fetus.
I smell a methaphor. :)

Good idea, lostmio. Island as organism...but in kind of a twisted (mirrored?) way. Instead of white blood cells fighting off intruders, it has a black smoke monster. Maybe it is the island that has a sickness.

The thing you have to remember about this is that the sounds are becoming clearer over time for us as we watch the show, but in the storyline, this is a younger version of Smokey. The version that Ecko, Locke, and the rest of the 815 survivors encounter is an "advanced" or older version of the smoke monster 16 years later.

As for the person that say the monster got grayer over time, it would actually be the opposite if you follow the timeline of the series. The monster actually got darker as time passed.

Not sure that I agree. I don't buy the theory that Smokey is some sort of science experiment gone bad or out of control, and that the reason why things are clearer or less clear over the timeline s that Its "programming" is malfunctioning.

The sounds of Smokey when interacting with our one-armed man were quite clear, and that exchange took place in the past relative to the timeline. We do seem to hear more of the clicks in the French exchange vs the roars in some of the 815-ers exchanges, but we've heard the clicks with the 815-ers, too. When Danielle took the 815-ers to the Black Rock, the clicking sounds were front and center. When Ben asked Smokey to deal with Keamy's crew, Smokey was quite ... loud ... and the roar (like a train) was the most audible sound. If there were clicks, I don't remember them.

What we may be missing is that Smokey's sounds are different based on whom It is interacting with--some people may get clicks, some may get roars, some may get something else or a combination of sounds. The question is --Is there a pattern in the sounds based on either the person or the type of interaction?

I think the images of Smokey are what they are in February 2009 because what WE are getting now is more screen time for Smokey rather than seeing a faulty computer program's problems doing Its job. The more screen time Smokey gets, the clearer our understanding of It becomes, at least as much as we can understand something that moves like the wind.

The Smoke Monster that Ben summons in TSOTTC was huge! We've seen Smokey be really small like at the end of season one. We've also seen it split up like when it hit the sonic fense in season 3. I think it's safe to say there is multiple Smokies that can Voltron-form as one main one when called upon.

I want to see that Smoke Monster again. All dark and full of kinetic charge. Barrelling out of the woods like a freight train of smoke.

I'd list the Smoke Monster under special guest stars in the episodes it appears in.

I'm wondering if there is any relation to smokie "possessing/hypnotizing" the male crew members into killing Daniel because she is pregnant...

Does smokie/the island not want women having babies? Will new babies on the island water down the native species/humans? Is that part of the "security" of the island?

Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but just couldn't look past the fact that she is obviously prego with Alex, and this show has placed such an emphasis on pregnant women and babies.

A very excellent idea...i didn't think of that. So, Smokey wanted the baby, killed the crew to protect and take it? It does make sense.
(I hated that they killed off A and D so causally last Season. )

I'm not convinced that Smokey 'possessed' the crew, but I guess the example of how Claire becoming very weird and different, then giving up her "byeeebieee" should be proof that it can happen that way?

Maybe Smokey gets darker and more powerful over time because he has consumed or absorbed more of something from those it kills. Or maybe just it being on the Island longer exposes it to more Electromagnetism so it is stronger.
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A very excellent idea...i didn't think of that. So, Smokey wanted the baby, killed the crew to protect and take it? It does make sense.
(I hated that they killed off A and D so causally last Season. )

I'm not convinced that Smokey 'possessed' the crew, but I guess the example of how Claire becoming very weird and different, then giving up her "byeeebieee" should be proof that it can happen that way?

I don't necessarily think Smokey is possessing Claire, but I do think she was "brainwashed" via whatever Island magic mojo is going on down below the Temple...which is what I think happened to Robert,Lacombe, and Brennan.

I want to see that Smoke Monster again. All dark and full of kinetic charge. Barrelling out of the woods like a freight train of smoke.

I'd list the Smoke Monster under special guest stars in the episodes it appears in.

Hee, Hee...I've wanted to create a 'cast photo' of the actors sitting off camera in their director's chair's with names on them.(like one's I've seen in "On Set" interviews) Sitting next to Hurley is Smokey, in his own chair, wearing a "LOST" ballcap and holding a Corona. (we can see his name on the back of the chair thru his hazy Smoke.)

As for the person that say the monster got grayer over time, it would actually be the opposite if you follow the timeline of the series. The monster actually got darker as time passed.

We didn't see the lights and pics flashing inside him either, like when he 'scanned' Eko's memory. That seemed about his most 'advanced' version we've seen of him?

When he did his "Get on the Love Train" entrance on Keamy's Meanies, didn't he look very brownish to grey and kinda dirty? It was dark out, so maybe just to contrast him in the scene?

Why would we believe Robert saying it is a security system protecting the temple? Robert was full of it at that point.

I agree he had been programmed by Smokey and/or the Island but I think it really is a security system that keeps out those it does not deem worthy.
Smokey is the Ultimate Security System...it scans all potential threats and if they can not be id'd then it takes care of the problem.

:eek2:

I don't necessarily think Smokey is possessing Claire, but I do think she was "brainwashed" via whatever Island magic mojo is going on down below the Temple...which is what I think happened to Robert,Lacombe, and Brennan.

That's what i meant...and i agree; but 'brainwashed' or 'possessed'? boy, i don't know???

Claire sure seemed like someone else...some say that was Jacob?? nah?
(I miss Claire!) The Island kills off all the cute girls!!! Not fair!

I caught the episode on cable when Rousseau is leading them through the "dark territory" on there way to retrieving the dynamite from the Black Rock. The security system is only heard and not seen...there are clear "foot step" sound effects meant to convey that it was walking through the jungle. As the sounds grow fainter, Locke states that it must be moving away from them in the opposite direction. Seems like they're taking a different approach with the last few sightings of Smokey and nixed the "foot steps" idea, which always reminded me of an old Johnny Quest episode.

That's what i meant...and i agree; but 'brainwashed' or 'possessed'? boy, i don't know???

Claire sure seemed like someone else...some say that was Jacob?? nah?
(I miss Claire!) The Island kills off all the cute girls!!! Not fair!

I don't think she's dead yet. I think she's just being kept safe by Daddy Dearest until it is time for her to raise Aaron again.
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I caught the episode on cable when Rousseau is leading them through the "dark territory" on there way to retrieving the dynamite from the Black Rock. The security system is only heard and not seen...there are clear "foot step" sound effects meant to convey that it was walking through the jungle. As the sounds grow fainter, Locke states that it must be moving away from them in the opposite direction. Seems like they're taking a different approach with the last few sightings of Smokey and nixed the "foot steps" idea, which always reminded me of an old Johnny Quest episode.

I liked Smokey best when he was uprooting all the trees in its path!
:biggrin:

I don't think she's dead yet. I think she's just being kept safe by Daddy Dearest until it is time for her to raise Aaron again.
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I liked Smokey best when he was uprooting all the trees in its path!
:biggrin:
Yeah! like when he attacked Locke! I thought he was an invisible Giant! the trees thing happened again last week. So what did Locke see when he called it "The eye of the island and it was beautiful"?