They have a plausible explanation for "new family member pulled out of nowhere" because Christian and Ray were not on good terms about some major things ("The Watch") and that family is dysfunctional as all hell.

Do you think we'll ever see him back? Is he going to be part of explaining Christian's backstory a bit, other than "He's got daddy issues of his own".

Ray
Christian
Jack
Aaron

It would be strange if Shephard the Eldest were completely left out of that story.

I have to say if this is his only scene on Lost ever, it would be a pity, but it will have been completely worth it. I love the actor, I think his onscreen raport with Matthew Fox was fantastic.

Who is the actor?

Didn't he seem too young?

And he reminded me of Farmer Ray.

i was waiting for him to say something about the island- but i guess we have to wait and see if he comes back to the show.

They have a plausible explanation for "new family member pulled out of nowhere" because Christian and Ray were not on good terms about some major things ("The Watch") and that family is dysfunctional as all hell.

Do you think we'll ever see him back? Is he going to be part of explaining Christian's backstory a bit, other than "He's got daddy issues of his own".

Ray
Christian
Jack
Aaron

It would be strange if Shephard the Eldest were completely left out of that story.

I have to say if this is his only scene on Lost ever, it would be a pity, but it will have been completely worth it. I love the actor, I think his onscreen raport with Matthew Fox was fantastic.

I hope we see a lot more of him. I think one of the reasons he might be in the health care facility that he is at now is because he wants to go back to the island as well. Thats why he always wants to escape. I think much of the Shepard linage is back on the island and Ray was expecting Jack to look for something of Christians.

I agree also that the actor and Matthew Fox worked very well together and I would not mind seeing them share scenes again.

I don't think he seemed too young - Jack is young and Christian is young too - Some people have babies in their teens/early twenties - totally plausible.

but i also hope we see him again, they were great together. really good, funny, sweet scene.

I thought Jack was gonna offer him a trip to the island. Watch this guy be the guy in charge of everything. It sure seems like Jack's family has importance to the island.

Do you think we'll ever see him back? Is he going to be part of explaining Christian's backstory a bit, other than "He's got daddy issues of his own".

Ray
Christian
Jack
Aaron

It would be strange if Shephard the Eldest were completely left out of that story.

I have to say if this is his only scene on Lost ever, it would be a pity, but it will have been completely worth it. I love the actor, I think his onscreen raport with Matthew Fox was fantastic.

I would think we would see him again. Why bother introducing a whole new character this late in the game if he has no real significance? It would have made more sense in a way for Jack to just pull something of Christian's out of his closet - people often keep a few possessions of their parents after they have died.

And considering how central the whole Shephard clan seems to be and how central the whole daddy issues/father-child theme is, I can't imagine we wouldn't see Ray again.

Raymond J. Barry (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000855/).

I thought he did a great job, he can pass for a sprightly octogenarian. He's so very... unChristianesque, I love it. He's kind of a free spirit, old Ray.

I was just discussing with a friend the other day about how people who have awful relationships with their sons end up being cuddly, loving grandpa types because they don't unload all their expectations and dysfunctions on the grandkids, just on the direct offspring. It just strikes a very realistic chord with me I guess.

I hope we see a lot more of him. I think one of the reasons he might be in the health care facility that he is at now is because he wants to go back to the island as well. Thats why he always wants to escape.

Awesome idea! :)

ETA: Ray was the one who didn't want Christian to marry Margot, correct?

I think we'll see him again. So far, every Shephard we've met has been significant.

I hope we see a lot more of him. I think one of the reasons he might be in the health care facility that he is at now is because he wants to go back to the island as well. Thats why he always wants to escape. I think much of the Shepard linage is back on the island and Ray was expecting Jack to look for something of Christians.


I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

And his watching his magic shows with white bunnies!!! Loved the scenes with Ray!

OK, I'm highly disappointed. I can't believe anyone hasn't done it yet, so it is with heavy heart, and only to uphold tradition do I humbly pronounce, and without any supporting evidence the following:

RAY SHEPHARD IS JACOB.

I think we'll see him again. So far, every Shephard we've met has been significant.

exactly theres more to him and we will see him, there family definitely has ties to the island i thinhk! and raymond j barry has always been a great character actor and lindelof and cuse have done an amazing job finding all these great actors for certain parts such as alan dale and john terry etc

I thought Jack was gonna offer him a trip to the island. Watch this guy be the guy in charge of everything. It sure seems like Jack's family has importance to the island.

Me, too! I kept thinking that Grandad has no one except Jack and Jack is leaving for a long time. He should have invited him!

Well in that case, I will dream of a scene with the three of them together because yes, John Terry and Matthew Fox have always been outstanding together and Barry fits perfectly into the dynamic.

Forget the Jacob speculation, I'm surprised nobody has claimed yet that Ray's the mathematician who did all the math with the pendulum, etc. :D

Liked the easy interaction that he and Jack seemed to have together. I was kind of thinking he would be on the flight. Maybe he had the shoes that belonged to CS in order to add them to Locke's coffin if Jack didn't turn up? I'd of rather saw him than the guy who gave his condolences to Jack in the ticket line...

I think we'll definitely see Ray again...

I guess I'm totally off base here, but I thought the presence of Jack's grandfather was brought on to kind of humanize Christian as opposed to him being preceived as some freaky ghost/zombie. Of course, I know there's more to it, but I tend to forget that Christian was once a mortal being with a regular dad, instead of being Jacob-like.

I thought he might have been on the flight as well. I absolutely love Grandpa Ray!

Do we really think it was coincidence that Ben told Jack he needed something of his father's, and on that very day his grandfather happens to make a prison break carrying, of all things, Christian's shoes? No, I think that Ray is involved enough to have manipulated this situation so that Jack ends up with the shoes. Which means that either Ben or Eloise gave him a call.....

Do we really think it was coincidence that Ben told Jack he needed something of his father's, and on that very day his grandfather happens to make a prison break carrying, of all things, Christian's shoes? No, I think that Ray is involved enough to have manipulated this situation so that Jack ends up with the shoes. Which means that either Ben or Eloise gave him a call.....
I had the same feeling that it was no coincidence that Ray's case held those shoes. I also feel as though Ray is involved more than we know. The crack about what he would do without the magic tells us something...

OK, I'm highly disappointed. I can't believe anyone hasn't done it yet, so it is with heavy heart, and only to uphold tradition do I humbly pronounce, and without any supporting evidence the following:

RAY SHEPHARD IS JACOB.

Jack's grandfather = Jacob has been done many times in General Theories. I've first posted it a couple of years ago.

I don't think he seemed too young - Jack is young and Christian is young too - Some people have babies in their teens/early twenties - totally plausible.

but i also hope we see him again, they were great together. really good, funny, sweet scene.

He was WAY too young. The actor is 70. John Terry is 59. Matthew Fox is 43.

OK, I'm highly disappointed. I can't believe anyone hasn't done it yet, so it is with heavy heart, and only to uphold tradition do I humbly pronounce, and without any supporting evidence the following:

RAY SHEPHARD IS JACOB.

"Help me."

He's definitely in on it.

I have been pulling for Jacob being Jack's Grandpa. I was hoping his name was Jay and not Ray. Unless we find out that Ray is a nickname. Oh well.

Grandpa had that black eye thing going on like Mrs. Hawking.

Hey, you forgot Claire. She's Ray's granddaughter, and certainly has issues with her absent father!

OK, I'm highly disappointed. I can't believe anyone hasn't done it yet, so it is with heavy heart, and only to uphold tradition do I humbly pronounce, and without any supporting evidence the following:

RAY SHEPHARD IS JACOB.

LOL I came here expecting to read just that... when I saw Ray Shephard right away the word "Jacob" flashed in my mind, correct me if I'm wrong but his look (minus the beard) also matches that of Jacob when we saw him in the cabin.

I'm starting to think there's a holy trinity connection here, Jacob is the father(Ray?), the son(Locke) and the holy spirit(Christian). Jacob is the Island!!! What if Locke is really the son of Ray ?

I had the same feeling that it was no coincidence that Ray's case held those shoes. I also feel as though Ray is involved more than we know. The crack about what he would do without the magic tells us something...

I thouhgt the same kind of thing, as well. I sensed that Ray was somehow guiding him and provided the shoes.

Awesome idea! :)

ETA: Ray was the one who didn't want Christian to marry Margot, correct?

Is that Jack's mom? Has anything ever been mentioned about what happened to her? I think I heard Jack say that "she was gone and his dad was dead". Significant?

Did anyone else notice Ray's teeth? I couldn't take my eyes off of them, gap between the front ones, very crooked on the bottom.

Made me search for a screencap of Adam and Eve to see if the teeth from the skeleton had any similar traits, but I couldn't find a good close-up. Yeah, I could be really reaching, but his teeth were just very distinctive. :undecide:

Is that Jack's mom? Has anything ever been mentioned about what happened to her? I think I heard Jack say that "she was gone and his dad was dead". Significant?

Nothing happened to her, she's living in LA and still being absolutely beautiful (I love Veronica Hamel). I would assume Jack pushed her away because he cut himself off from everybody in his self-destructive stint, which works well as an explanation for why he wasn't saying goodbye to her even though it's probably because the actress wasn't available. Sometimes you have to work around these things.

I was reading all the comments about how Raymond J. Barry isn't old enough to be in his 80s and that gave me a bit of hope because well... it's easier to add age to actors than to substract and maybe he was cast with that in mind also. They wouldn't have to go through a great deal of digitizing and makeup tricks to de-age him for a flashback, he'd just look his actual age.

I have been pulling for Jacob being Jack's Grandpa. I was hoping his name was Jay and not Ray. Unless we find out that Ray is a nickname. Oh well.

My grandpa's name is Jacob and he goes by Jay. Maybe MY family is the special one! :eek2:

:biggrin:

(Ironically, my grandma's name is Charlotte.)

I have to say, I wasn't a fan of his introduction - it was a real Nikki/Paulo moment for me. Jack has all of these horrible daddy issues, yet we see he had access to a perfectly charming father figure if Jack would have just sought him out.

Maybe MY family is the special one! :eek2:

Oooh, time to suck up. :ntworthy: :D

I have to say, I wasn't a fan of his introduction - it was a real Nikki/Paulo moment for me. Jack has all of these horrible daddy issues, yet we see he had access to a perfectly charming father figure if Jack would have just sought him out.

My step brother grew up with his grandfather living 40 minutes away for decades and yet he didn't see him more than three times in his whole life. Families are... weird like that. It was made clear in the mobisode that Christian had at least one big disagreement with his father, so it makes sense that Ray wasn't around and didn't have that kind of relationship with Jack.

My grandpa's name is Jacob and he goes by Jay. Maybe MY family is the special one! :eek2:

:biggrin:

(Ironically, my grandma's name is Charlotte.)

That's not ironic! It's just coincidental!

Am I crazy, or did Jack's grandfather sound exactly like Sawyer...Go back and listen to the dialogue. Curious about Kate, calls her freckles, says he packed the shoes for a "quick getaway", he says "one of these days I'm gonna getaway, and they'll never find me." As we know, Sawyer stays on the island. He also mentions Jack visiting him, which he is literally about to do by going back to the island and meeting back up with Sawyer...??? Ok I think I'm reaching now. Or am I...? Ah my brain hurts.

So you're getting at the idea of the characters, now stuck somewhere in the 60's-70's, growing old in this timeline, and somewhere in the future, taking part in the lives of our characters in the 80s, 90s, and 00s?

That's ridiculous... almost as outrageous as our characters traveling back in time and becoming part of the past.
100%
Jack also seemed to take a shocked look at the army photo of the island in the Lamp Post, which had the date and operation tag on it.

As someone pointed out in the thread about the photo, maybe he remembered something like his grandfather taking part in such an operation? The shoes/distraction also serve as a nice device to let the writers avoid such a big reveal and draw it out.

The timing of it seemed very arbitrary - on this day, right before these events, in this episode - unless you factor in that something clicked when Jack saw the photo.

I felt he put Christians shoes in on purpose, he knew Jack was coming for this reason. Maybe Christian has lived a similar story with Ray to Jacks and Christians now, and in time Jack and Kates boy will have the same thing

His son died. They had a crappy relationship, but now he's dead and Ray was going on a journey and took something that belonged to his son just... because. It's what people do. That's how I understood it, I don't think there's anything more involved there.

However...

Jack also seemed to take a shocked look at the army photo of the island in the Lamp Post, which had the date and operation tag on it.

As someone pointed out in the thread about the photo, maybe he remembered something like his grandfather taking part in such an operation?

That's pretty cool. I'm sure Jack would be just as shocked to see a picture of the Island on a carton of milk (or anywhere) so maybe it's as simple as that there as well, that's a pretty good idea. Let's keep in mind though that people swore up and down that when he went in the hatch Jack looked shocked at Penny's picture as if he knew her and now we've seen them introduced for the first time and know that's not the case. So Jack might simply be a "point of view" character, looking at the picture for a bit longer so the camera can get a good look for us.

Jack popping in to see his grandfather did seem arbitrary, unless you look at it that way...

We already know why he went to see his grandfather. He got a call to go because he'd tried a "prison break". Again.

^ I overlooked that... but the timing of it was still arbitrary. Otherwise, it seems like pointless filler in a momentous episode.

Also, true about the shocked expression on a photo. But since this photo doesn't really have any clear significance like Penny to Desmond, I'm leaning towards reading into it a bit more.

Am I crazy, or did Jack's grandfather sound exactly like Sawyer...Go back and listen to the dialogue. Curious about Kate, calls her freckles, says he packed the shoes for a "quick getaway", he says "one of these days I'm gonna getaway, and they'll never find me." As we know, Sawyer stays on the island. He also mentions Jack visiting him, which he is literally about to do by going back to the island and meeting back up with Sawyer...??? Ok I think I'm reaching now. Or am I...? Ah my brain hurts.I like it and my brain is starting to hurt too.

I totally agree that he was too young. The actor is 70, John Terry is 59 and Matthew Fox is 43. That was either poor casting/writing (would have been more plausible if it was his uncle) or he has some Richard Alpert qualities.

...or Matthew Fox is not really a good yardstick against which to measure other men's ages. :D Genes are cruel like that.

I don't think age is supposed to be the biggest factor in the decision, but how good the actor is for the part. For instance, until now, nobody else even mentioned that John Terry is too young to be Jack's dad (although Jack's younger than Foxy) but I wouldn't want anybody else in the universe playing Christian because he's fantastic and his chemistry with Matthew Fox is excellent.

I'd rather have a good actor who clicks with his co-star but is ten years younger than an offputting flat snorefest (sorry, Widmore guy!) who's just the right age.

...or Matthew Fox is not really a good yardstick against which to measure other men's ages. :D Genes are cruel like that.

I don't think age is supposed to be the biggest factor in the decision, but how good the actor is for the part. For instance, until now, nobody else even mentioned that John Terry is too young to be Jack's dad (although Jack's younger than Foxy) but I wouldn't want anybody else in the universe playing Christian because he's fantastic and his chemistry with Matthew Fox is excellent.

I'd rather have a good actor who clicks with his co-star but is ten years younger than an offputting flat snorefest (sorry, Widmore guy!) who's just the right age.

agree on the gramps ray observation, clauds...
don't with the widmore though, I really like the actor in that role... he doesn't eat the scenery like Ben does, but I think he's got menacing down pretty handily...
squid

...or Matthew Fox is not really a good yardstick against which to measure other men's ages. :D Genes are cruel like that.

I don't think age is supposed to be the biggest factor in the decision, but how good the actor is for the part. For instance, until now, nobody else even mentioned that John Terry is too young to be Jack's dad (although Jack's younger than Foxy) but I wouldn't want anybody else in the universe playing Christian because he's fantastic and his chemistry with Matthew Fox is excellent.

I'd rather have a good actor who clicks with his co-star but is ten years younger than an offputting flat snorefest (sorry, Widmore guy!) who's just the right age.

OK then, more makeup.

Although I would like to see more roles for the actual elderly.

I always hate it when they cast a woman who is supposed to be old and/or ugly by finding a young, beautiful actress and sending her to makeup for a makeover.

Re John Terry--I always thought he was too young, too, but it works because it's part of his eerie quality.

I didn't see him as too young, but way too...fine...to be living in such a place that he's not allowed to pack up and go somewhere. I guess he lives in a retirement home or nursing home, but the guy sure had spunk and was walking around like he could still live on his own. Obviously he didn't move to that home on his own, maybe Christian put him there when got too "old" for him. But to me he seemed in very good shape that I was surprised at where he lived. Maybe it's since my grandparents didn't move into a nursing home until they were past 90 that I think this guy could easily be on his own

We just don't know enough about Ray.

Oooh, time to suck up. :ntworthy: :D


That's right, sister, so get your suck on.

That's not ironic! It's just coincidental!

Semantics, Mr. Doe, semantics.
100%
I totally agree that he was too young. The actor is 70, John Terry is 59 and Matthew Fox is 43. That was either poor casting/writing (would have been more plausible if it was his uncle) or he has some Richard Alpert qualities.

Yes, but...

On The Cosby Show, the actress who played eldest daughter Sandra was only ten years younger than the actress playing the mother, Claire. On my beloved Frasier, actor John Mahoney was only twelve years older than his TV son played by Kelsey Grammer.

And let me not even get into the stupidity of the daytime soaps and their suspension of disbelief when it comes to ages.

:drowsy:

Sorry, was there something on Ray Shepherd before that wasn't included in the normal episodes as everybody is talking as is we have already seen him and that you know he has something to do with the Island?

Quick note. In the Bible Jacob is the great-great grandfather of Aaron. Ray is son of Jacob?

Sorry, was there something on Ray Shepherd before that wasn't included in the normal episodes as everybody is talking as is we have already seen him and that you know he has something to do with the Island?


I think it's in reference to him giving Christian a watch in somewhat aggressive circumstances?

I think Ray knows about the island and knew Jack was coming and intentionally put the shoes in an easy pick up place for Jack (so it was less awkward)

I kept thinking I had seen him before in a past LOST episode....turns out, he played the father of Dewey Cox in "Walk Hard"!

Am I crazy, or did Jack's grandfather sound exactly like Sawyer...Go back and listen to the dialogue. Curious about Kate, calls her freckles, says he packed the shoes for a "quick getaway", he says "one of these days I'm gonna getaway, and they'll never find me." As we know, Sawyer stays on the island. He also mentions Jack visiting him, which he is literally about to do by going back to the island and meeting back up with Sawyer...??? Ok I think I'm reaching now. Or am I...? Ah my brain hurts.

I really like those similarities - shows what kind of personality Ray has, but I don't think he is Sawyer. Maybe a relative, though?

I think it's in reference to him giving Christian a watch in somewhat aggressive circumstances?


Yeah, the mobisode "The Watch" was very interesting, and to now have Christian's father actually appear in an episode -- there has to be a reason beyond that of Jack finding his dad's shoes.

regarding seeing this characters again:
on his imdb page, this is the only Lost episode listed, so it seems as if he wont be back, at least in the next 5 or 6 episodes that are listed on imdb

Quick note. In the Bible Jacob is the great-great grandfather of Aaron. Ray is son of Jacob? Now thats interesting ..

Quick note. In the Bible Jacob is the great-great grandfather of Aaron. Ray is son of Jacob?


By his first wife Leah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leah), he had Reuben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben), Simeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon), Levi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi), Judah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah), Issachar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issachar) and Zebulun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebulun).
By Bilhah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilhah), handmaiden of Rachel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel), he had Dan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan) and Naphtali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtali).
By Zilpah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilpah), handmaiden of Leah, he had Gad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gad) and Asher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asher).
Finally, by his favourite wife Rachel, he had Joseph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_(dreamer)) and Benjamin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin).

Which son?

Made me search for a screencap of Adam and Eve to see if the teeth from the skeleton had any similar traits, but I couldn't find a good close-up.Wow, now that would be planning ahead!

My step brother grew up with his grandfather living 40 minutes away for decades and yet he didn't see him more than three times in his whole life.But did they have the easy rapport that Jack and Ray had?

Sorry, was there something on Ray Shepherd before that wasn't included in the normal episodes as everybody is talking as is we have already seen him and that you know he has something to do with the Island?

Just a mobisode in which Christian gives Jack Ray's watch before his wedding (and it was revealed that Christian has daddy issues of his own). The watch ended up with Hurley so he could time Claire's contractions when they crashed, which was a nice touch. But anyway, I'm not a deep theory person, I just enjoyed the scene and was wondering if we'd see him again. As far as I know, the actor was cast

as "recurring", but that could mean anything, that he'd show up only in season six for instance.



But did they have the easy rapport that Jack and Ray had?

When they eventually got to know each other as grownups, yes. I have relatives who weren't around when I grew up so our relationship was more of a close friendship because by the time I got to know them I was all grown up and we had more things in common and less family baggage to deal with. I'd imagine this is something similar, it works.

Sorry, was there something on Ray Shepherd before that wasn't included in the normal episodes as everybody is talking as is we have already seen him and that you know he has something to do with the Island?
I think the only time Grandpa Shepherd was ever mentioned was in the Mobisodes- Missing Pieces (http://forum.thefuselage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376) and it was his watch that Christian gave to Jack.

YouTube - Mobisódio Lost 13 - So It Begins
All of these can be found on Youtube.

Raymond J. Barry (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000855/).

Thanks for the link. So I was right that he was closer to early 70s than 80s. Yeah, he's just too young. It doesn't bother me that Christian is on the young side, because Jack is supposed to be in his 30s, not 40s like Matthew is.

Do we really think it was coincidence that Ben told Jack he needed something of his father's, and on that very day his grandfather happens to make a prison break carrying, of all things, Christian's shoes? No, I think that Ray is involved enough to have manipulated this situation so that Jack ends up with the shoes. Which means that either Ben or Eloise gave him a call.....

No, I think there is a reason. But was it coincidence, fate, or deception?

...or Matthew Fox is not really a good yardstick against which to measure other men's ages. :D Genes are cruel like that.

I'd rather have a good actor who clicks with his co-star but is ten years younger than an offputting flat snorefest (sorry, Widmore guy!) who's just the right age.

It's rather that I think Ray is too young to be Christian's father, rather than a yardstick against Matthew Fox. lol.

You think Alan Dale is boring? Wow, I looove him!

SamG posted the "So It Begins" mobisode, which is a nice reference, but the one we really want is "The Watch." Let me grab it....

YouTube - Lost Mobisode 1 - The Watch

ETA: I never noticed the "Unlike me..." line before. Christian basically agreeing that he shouldn't have married Margot? Eek.

No, I think there is a reason. But was it coincidence, fate, or deception?

I think it's just a storytelling technique: a parallel between Ray and Jack because they're both getting away from "here", I highly doubt anybody planted those shoes in Ray's suitcase. What if he did board the bus and make it to his "anywhere" destination? Aside from that, it also gives us the chance to meet him if he is indeed "recurring" as the casting suggests. Those blessed Shephard youthful genes will come in handy if he's in a flashback to twenty or thirty years prior and they don't have to pull a Rousseau casting trick where the two people look and sound nothing alike.

You think Alan Dale is boring?

I think Widmore is dreadfully flat. Zzzzzz...

ETA: I never noticed the "Unlike me..." line before. Christian basically agreeing that he shouldn't have married Margot? Eek.

Well, he did end up cheating on her and fathering kids on other continents. Nothing in Ray's personality so far indicates a controlling ogre, so I think he might have been opposed more to Christian marrying anybody at all (because let's face it... he didn't exactly handle responsibilites well in any area) rather than Margo in particular.

They have a plausible explanation for "new family member pulled out of nowhere" because Christian and Ray were not on good terms about some major things ("The Watch") and that family is dysfunctional as all hell.

Do you think we'll ever see him back? Is he going to be part of explaining Christian's backstory a bit, other than "He's got daddy issues of his own".

Ray
Christian
Jack
Aaron

It would be strange if Shephard the Eldest were completely left out of that story.

I have to say if this is his only scene on Lost ever, it would be a pity, but it will have been completely worth it. I love the actor, I think his onscreen raport with Matthew Fox was fantastic.


My latest crazy theory goes like this:

Jacob the wizard
Ray the magician
Christian the doctor
Jack the doctor
Aaron the doctor wizard?