It's been more that half of this series now and I feel it's time to have a more up to date discussion about who Jacob may be...from a season 5 context. To me that is the central mystery of the show and the answer that we are probably going to have to wait until the series finale to find out.

Now that we have seen most of this series buy now, I figured that I would start the discussion with my guess...It is Jack.

With thanks and credit to a post by ame en peine, I have included some circumstantial evidence to fit this theory. The following list is one compiled by both ame en peine and me.

I hope everyone will feel free to post respectful agreements or counter therories here. I would especially like to hear any theories from season 5 so far that may point to Jack=Jacob...things I may have missed or not mentioned here.


Jack's tattoo - "He walks among us but is not one of us".... Achara comments that "he is a leader, but that makes him lonely"

Jacob is a nickname for Jack.

Pickett mentioned that Jack wasn't on "Jacob's list". It would make sense that you wouldn't put yourself on your own list.

He woke up seperated from the rest of the fuselage, in the jungle. The opening sequence shows his eye, from his point of view...and he does so again in 316!!!!!!!

Jack has been referenced as a "Great Man/Leader of Men/etc." many times through the first 4 seasons. We know how TPTB like to foreshadow.

The leader of the others is also refered to as a "Great Man/Leader of Men/etc." (Patchy mentions that Ben is not the leader...the leader is a GREAT man. it in "Par Avion" for instance)

When the sheriff found Jack's tattoo to be ironic...the irony being that it said that he (I assume Jack) walks among us yet is not one of us. That is a statement of irony only if Jack is truly "one of us/them"...right?

The mention to Hurley that Jack was thinking of growing a beard...then we get a glimse of Jacob in full beard...a small detail but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw a fully bearded Jacob sitting in that chair.

When there is a problem...ANY PROBLEM...Jack gets the call first:

Sayid gets hit w/the dart...call Jack
Kate's in trouble
Ray escaped the old folks home
Hurley's not taking his meds...etc...etc.

There have been many other instances where Jacob and Jack have been called a great man/leader for it to be a coincidence for me.

Thoughts?

Transcript from 316:
MAN OVER P.A.: "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Ajira Air. This is your captain, Frank J. Lapidus, and on behalf of the entire flight crew, welcome aboard. Currently we're right on schedule, flying at a very comfortable 30,000 feet. So sit back, relax and enjoy the in-flight movie."

It's Lapidus. What's the J stand for? You guessed it!
This is my only proof and I don't actually believe it, but I'm throwing Frankie's name in the Jacob hat.:grin:

I dont know about Jack being Jacob. Ben claims to be able to see Jacob, dont you think he would recognise him? I think Jacob will be the son of Jack.

It's been more that half of this series now and I feel it's time to have a more up to date discussion about who Jacob may be...from a season 5 context. To me that is the central mystery of the show and the answer that we are probably going to have to wait until the series finale to find out.

Now that we have seen most of this series buy now, I figured that I would start the discussion with my guess...It is Jack.

I agree.

Jacob is a nickname for Jack.

I think you may mean that Jack is a nickname for Jacob.

Pickett mentioned that Jack wasn't on "Jacob's list". It would make sense that you wouldn't put yourself on your own list.

It also may be that the rules of time travel may prohibit Jack and Jack/Jacob being together at the same time.

The opening sequence shows his eye, from his point of view...and he does so again in 316!!!!!!!

When we first saw Jacob, wasn't it only his eye that we saw?

If Jack is Jacob, that might explain why his father and his sister are in the cabin, attempting to rescue him from what appears to be a trap.

It might also explain the importance of the triangle to the story - that Jack has become trapped trying to save Kate and Sawyer. If I remember correctly TPTB promised a bittersweet ending. How about Jack trapped in a time loop, Kate and Sawyer as Adam and Eve in the cave, Kate trying to save Jack and Sawyer staying to be with Kate.

Transcript from 316:
MAN OVER P.A.: "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Ajira Air. This is your captain, Frank J. Lapidus, and on behalf of the entire flight crew, welcome aboard. Currently we're right on schedule, flying at a very comfortable 30,000 feet. So sit back, relax and enjoy the in-flight movie."

It's Lapidus. What's the J stand for? You guessed it!
This is my only proof and I don't actually believe it, but I'm throwing Frankie's name in the Jacob hat.:grin:

I love it...didn't notice that.Frank=Jacob?
100%

When we first saw Jacob, wasn't it only his eye that we saw?

If Jack is Jacob, that might explain why his father and his sister are in the cabin, attempting to rescue him from what appears to be a trap.

It might also explain the importance of the triangle to the story - that Jack has become trapped trying to save Kate and Sawyer. If I remember correctly TPTB promised a bittersweet ending. How about Jack trapped in a time loop, Kate and Sawyer as Adam and Eve in the cave, Kate trying to save Jack and Sawyer staying to be with Kate.

The eye that Hurley saw in the cabin looked like it could have been Jack's eye.

The scene wit Locke, Claire, and Christian was another one for me...why Jack's family if not Jack?

Until I see otherwise, Jack still has the stones from Adam and Ev'e pocket...until he gives up possession of those to someone else, I have to believe that the male body was Jack. I think the REINCARNATION clue was somehow important here too.

I dont know about Jack being Jacob. Ben claims to be able to see Jacob, dont you think he would recognise him? I think Jacob will be the son of Jack.

Ben lies. I don't think he could see Jacob, only communicate with him.



When we first saw Jacob, wasn't it only his eye that we saw?.

No, we saw him in TMBTC when Locke was in the cabin with Ben. We briefly saw the silhouette of a man in old clothes, with long hair and possibly a beard.

If Jack is Jacob, that might explain why his father and his sister are in the cabin, attempting to rescue him from what appears to be a trap..

That's a good thought!

I have another one, when they land back on the Island in 316, Hurley screams "Jack", and not Sayid.;)

You know what? With all the theories floating around about Christian, Locke and Jack being Jacob? I think it would be hysterical if it was Frank. I mean think about this character. He's probably the most laid back on the show next to Hurley (possibly even more so). Imagine if he turns out to be big, bad Jacob? ROFL!

You do make some compelling arguments, but Im going to wait for more information before I start theorizing lol But what you have so far, you make a good and believable argument for Jack.

Jacob is a nickname for Jack.



Jack is a nickname for John

Best. Theory. EVER.

I agree with you Lost Lenny. I almost wish I hadn't have read this because it feels like a spoiler.

It just makes sense on so many levels and I would actually be happy with this revelation since it wouldn't be anticlimatic, but instead really cool.

Remember when Jacob told Locke to help him? That was "Jacob" telling Locke to help Jack accept his destiny.

Best. Theory. EVER.

I agree with you Lost Lenny. I almost wish I hadn't have read this because it feels like a spoiler.

Well, I don't know about all that but thanks...my hope here is to have a thread for this season that we can discuss clues that might point to Jack=Jacob so feel free to keep adding stuff as we notice it.

In Jeremy Bentham, Jack was elevated to leader status again when Ben told Locke that "if you can get Jack, you can get the rest of them..."

What makes Jack so special? Yet he doesn't realize the special qualities of Locke?
I imagine when he sees a living Locke, he'll finally believe that Locke IS special and not just a lonely old man.

edit: nvm I wasn't thinking :(

I totally agree, that idea is very plausible. Even if Ben does recognize Jacob as Jack, Ben is very good at keeping secrets and lieing. Why else would they introduce both Jack's father and grandfather if his family has no history on the island?

LostLenny, Thanks for resurrecting my theory and supplementing it with your new ideas..

My original thread may be found here (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=75908)for reference. (very old thread, not bump-worthy) The original gist was written after the Nikki and Paulo "Cobra" epi..

Could Jack be the leader of the Others? Could he be Jacob?

I've been watching Lost lately with the assumption that one of the central characters should be looked at with scrutiny. The "Cobra" bit where Mr. LaShade was the Cobra in Expose confirmed that. Recently I looked towards Charlie: I also thought Jacob could be a computer/Smokey. But now lean heavily towards Jack. He could possiby be unaware that he is the leader, just like Neo in "The Matrix". Here are some thoughts:

Jack's tattoo - "He walks among us but is not one of us".... Achara comments that "he is a leader, but that makes him lonely"

Jacob is a nickname for Jack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(name)).

Pickett mentioned that Jack wasn't on "Jacob's list". It would make sense that you wouldn't put yourself on your own list.

He woke up seperated from the rest of the fuselage, in the jungle. The opening sequence shows his eye, from his point of view.

And lately I've been watching Lost with the assumption that Jack should be looked at with some scrutiny, and it fits. Last week, he could have been lying in his house, waiting for Kate to discover him knocked out from gas.


To this I would add.. We now have an awful lot of Shepherds in our midst:
Aaron, Jack, Christian, Claire, Ray.

Certainly it seems as if there are a lot of players waiting to spring into action for some sort of climax.

Jack is a nickname for JohnJack is also a nickname for Jacob. See the English variant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(name))here, where Jacob is listed as a variant of the name Jack.

One interesting mention is listed under the "Jack" entry in Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(name))

native speakers of English have historically associated the name "Jack" with Jaohn and only very rarely with "Jacob"

I continue to find it interesting that three major players have variants of each other's names:
Jack > John > Jacob.

I can't help but think they will all be somehow connected. I would love to see Jack and John actually be related. Two sides of a coin. In the bible, Jacob is Aaron's great-grandfather and had a twin named Esau. I'd love to see Jack and John discover they are relatives.

In the end I would guess that Jacob will be either Jack or Locke, but mighty interesting if it were both in one being.. two sides of a coin..

It's more like 5.5 seasons.

How exactly do you figure? I am looking at my season 1, 2, 3, and 4 DVD and we are in the middle of the 5th season. If it were 5.5, I would have my season 5 DVD here but I don't.

That's 4.5 seasons...thanks for the insightful post though. It added much to the conversation.

How exactly do you figure? I am looking at my season 1, 2, 3, and 4 DVD and we are in the middle of the 5th season. If it were 5.5, I would have my season 5 DVD here but I don't.Plus I don't think Jacob was introduced until Season 2?
100%
When there is a problem...ANY PROBLEM...Jack gets the call first:

Sayid gets hit w/the dart...call Jack
Kate's in trouble
Ray escaped the old folks home
Hurley's not taking his meds...etc...etc.
Very good point Lost Lenny... he seems to be the go-to person for sure

hi all,
I don't like the idea of Jack being Jacob- but everything said here does make a whole lot of sense... I don't want to believe it's going to wind up being Jack but it's looking like it might. I guess the TT will explain most of it if, it is true. What would also support your claim is that Christian can speak for Jacob- why? because he's Jacob's dad. I was thinking that Jacob could be Richard because Richard is always there always egging Ben or Locke on to do something.. Notice how he shot Widmore down?? I thought it was him but if he's prisoner in the Cabin then he wouldn't be able to leave would he.

I can't help but think they will all be somehow connected. I would love to see Jack and John actually be related. Two sides of a coin. In the bible, Jacob is Aaron's great-grandfather and had a twin named Esau. I'd love to see Jack and John discover they are relatives.


I've been wondering why Ray was brought in this season. His only contribution to the plot line can't only be a pair of Christians shoes, and considering both his son, grandson, granddaughter and great-grandson have ties to the island, I'm sure he must have more that hasn't been revealed yet. Perhaps Ray had a twin that hasn't been brought up yet?

Another idea as for why Jack may be Jacob is that he once was a man of science. He might have become so jaded by science and technology, seeing how people still have all kinds of problems that can't be truly cured, that he rebells against it. He becomes anti-technology and lives the life of a hermit, which we saw Jack starting to do in the FF's after he and Kate we no longer together...

The upcoming episodes should be interesting. I can't wait to see how 1970's Jack fits in with the DI...anybody think he'll end up being their leader when it's all said and done?

Jack has been referenced as a "Great Man/Leader of Men/etc." many times through the first 4 seasons. We know how TPTB like to foreshadow.

The leader of the others is also refered to as a "Great Man/Leader of Men/etc." (Patchy mentions that Ben is not the leader...the leader is a GREAT man. it in "Par Avion" for instance)

The mention to Hurley that Jack was thinking of growing a beard...then we get a glimse of Jacob in full beard...a small detail but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw a fully bearded Jacob sitting in that chair.

Thoughts?

I shall begin with some quick Desmond-isms! In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" it was said, many many times, that Des wasn't a great man, but coulld be a great man, that he has a destiny to do something great.

"Great man" was said a lot.

Every time we've seen Des, he's had long hair, sometimes a beard.
Don't forget that Des can time travel!

Charlie called Des "The Bearded Wonder". Sounds like Jacob.:biggrin:

We saw
Jacob (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/1/19/JacobEye4x01-wide.jpg) 's eyes, here is Jack (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/7/76/5x06_Jack_Eye.jpg), Des (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/3/35/DesEyeFlash.jpg) and Dan (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/f/f2/Danielllllleeee.jpg).

More proof? Looking back to the season 2 opener Man of Science, Man of Faith... we know Jack is capable of performing miracles. Remember how Jack was sure that he had failed to "fix" Sara and she would be paralyzed. And yet she wasn't! Was it Jack's skill as a surgeon, as a man science, that fixed Sara? Or was it Jack's intense desire, or his faith, that performed the miracle? Did he fail as a man of science but succeed as a man of faith?

We know Jacob is capable of miracles. Ben told Locke that he hoped Jacob could help him when he was shot and left for dead in the Dharma pit.

I say this is more proof that Jack = Jacob.

i've always been a jack = jacob theorist, it's so simple that every completely overlooks it as a possibility. the writers are pushing the locke as jacob angel so hard that i'm certain he's not.

Wow, that felt like a huge spoiler.

More proof? Looking back to the season 2 opener Man of Science, Man of Faith... we know Jack is capable of performing miracles. Remember how Jack was sure that he had failed to "fix" Sara and she would be paralyzed. And yet she wasn't! Was it Jack's skill as a surgeon, as a man science, that fixed Sara? Or was it Jack's intense desire, or his faith, that performed the miracle? Did he fail as a man of science but succeed as a man of faith?

We know Jacob is capable of miracles. Ben told Locke that he hoped Jacob could help him when he was shot and left for dead in the Dharma pit.

I totally agree. Another miracle Jacob supposedly performs is curing Juliet's sisters cancer. Ben says, "Jacob said he would take care of it himself."
This leads us to believe Jacob is a doctor.

Nice theory,sounds good to me. The island healing people would mean Jack's essence is merged with the island at some point. The fact that Jacob recoiled when Locke put his flashlight on him however, means that Jacob is a Man of Faith, not of Science,like Jack. But then again maybe Jack changed.

No one has seen Jacob? Not even Ben? I say this supports the theory that Jack = Jacob. Ben never recognized Jack as being Jacob because he has no idea what Jacob looks like.

Not sure if this helps
Season 6 and end-date

On May 7, 2007, ABC Entertainment President Stephen McPherson announced that Lost will end during the 2009–2010 season with a "highly anticipated and shocking finale."[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-Conclusion_2007-71) "We felt that this was the only way to give Lost a proper creative conclusion," McPherson said.[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-Conclusion_2007-71) Beginning with the 2007–2008 television season, the final 48 episodes would have been aired as three seasons with 16 episodes each, with Lost concluding in its sixth season. Due to the writers' strike, the fourth season featured 14 episodes, and Seasons 5 and 6 will have 17 episodes each.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-17ep-10)
Executive producers Lindelof and Cuse stated that they "always envisioned Lost as a show with a beginning, middle, and end," and that by announcing when the show would end that viewers would "have the security of knowing that the story will play out as we've intended."[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-Conclusion_2007-71) Lindelof and Cuse stated that securing the 2010 series-end date "was immensely liberating" and helped the series rediscover its focus.[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-TV_Guide_2008-03-72) Lindelof noted, "We're no longer stalling."[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-TV_Guide_2008-03-72) Matthew Fox stated that he is the only cast member who knows the ending of the show.[74] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#cite_note-73)

Matthew Fox is the only cast member to know the ending of the story.


Why is he the only cast member to know the ending? He must have a very critical role. Could it be because he is Jacob?

So, Jack=Jacob-ites, thoughts now?

Please don't take this as mocking or anything, I'm just interested in hearing your thoughts now that Jacob's been revealed.

I'm thinking Jack is Jack and Jacob is Jacob, and this is another log to throw on my debunked theory pyre. It's quite the flaming mess. ;) Not the first time a theory of mine went down in flames, won't be the last.

Seriously though, the Shepherd family is obviously in the big, final game.. all the players are in their places. But no, Jack is not Jacob - that was revealed in the finale.

Oh well, I'll say it again... part of the fun of this show is the what-ifs. :)

Yep, there's no shame in being wrong, especially with the way Jacob was presented, which IMO was done very well. Now we know why Jack wasn't on Jacob's list and that's because Jack and the rest of the Losties Jacob visited had more important things to do than join the Others.

Besides, of Jack had been Jacob, he'd be dead, and that wouldn't have been cool.;)

Not sure what to think of this. After 5 years, the writers introduce a completely new character as Jacob...they also reveal his nemesis (I don't think they mentioned his name but I need to watch again)
Jacob's nemesis reveals himself as Locke and that makes me wonder if Jacob is not reincarnated somewhere along the season 6 journey as Jack.

This "loophole" where someone can come back as someone else makes me wonder if Jacob can find a similar loophole to return as someone else.

I'm not ready to give up on it completely yet, although the season 5 finale puts a huge dent in this theory.

This "loophole" where someone can come back as someone else makes me wonder if Jacob can find a similar loophole to return as someone else.

I'm under the impression that the loophole is that a follower of Jacob has to kill him. The problem being that one of the followers would actually have to want to do so. It seems like Jacob's nemesis has either negatively effected Ben's life to the point where he would want to do such a thing, or maybe he's just making Ben realize the crappy things Jacob has put him through.

I don't think we should rule anyone out yet, especially since Jacob--if he still exists--is probably not in the body we saw him in anymore. If Locke can be someone else, Jack can still be Jacob.

Interesting ideas.. Locke/Man_in_Black vs. Jack/Jacob.. I guess we'll have a whole lot of time to chew on that possibility