When the guy whose name escapes me now was saying that
when the plane started shaking and a bright light appeared and
the big guy just dissapeared and he wasnt the only one my mind
went straight to the comment that Kate made waaayy back in the pilot
.
When jack said that nobody knows what happened, Kate replied no,
I saw the whole thing and the conversation was pretty muched dropped
after that. Has Kate been holding on to the fact that she saw people
dissapear from Flight 815?

If so who, or better yet have we seen them?

Id think that would be one little tidbit of info youd prob share by now, ya think?

A) That's an amazing question.

B) Kate's the type that would hold on to that information. She doesn't share unless she's forced to, or can get something better out of it. Also, she may have a little Jack syndrome in that she just didn't believe her eyes, and hasn't said anything because of this, something that when she hears about all the time jumping, may actually come out.

C) Your avatar rules.

GREAT THEORY!!!!! makes ALOT of sense and im a believer!!! lol

They didn't drop it.

Kate: "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the... the front of the plane broke off."

She saw it, there was no flash.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but how many times (and from how many angles) have we seen the crash of flight 815?? There was NO flash.

We saw the plane break apart and almost everyone that survived was hurt. During the flash off 316 it didn't seem Jack, Kate or Hurley was hurt. Kate was unconscious but none of them had a scratch on them.

They didn't drop it.

Kate: "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the... the front of the plane broke off."

She saw it, there was no flash.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but how many times (and from how many angles) have we seen the crash of flight 815?? There was NO flash.

However, she could have seen a flash and not said anything about that because she may not have believed she saw the flash. It would explain the plane found in the water way better than Ben or Widmore creating a fake crash scene to throw off the discovery of the Island.

They didn't drop it.

Kate: "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the... the front of the plane broke off."

She saw it, there was no flash.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but how many times (and from how many angles) have we seen the crash of flight 815?? There was NO flash.

So you're saying that this plane was moving along at cruising speed, broke up (which none of disagree with), and these people were sucked out of the hole, and flew with a horizontal speed (don't forget momentum) of between 120-300 miles per hour (or more), and landed on the island with barely a scratch. Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but both explanations have equal validity. SOME people were still in the cabin, but Jack? How can you explain him being that far away from the plane crash and surviving a fall through a tree filled jungle with nothing but a literal scratch.

However, she could have seen a flash and not said anything about that because she may not have believed she saw the flash. It would explain the plane found in the water way better than Ben or Widmore creating a fake crash scene to throw off the discovery of the Island.

How would that explain the plane in the water better. We've seen all the pieces of 815 on the Island. The plane at the bottom of the ocean was obviously placed there by someone.

However, she could have seen a flash and not said anything about that because she may not have believed she saw the flash. It would explain the plane found in the water way better than Ben or Widmore creating a fake crash scene to throw off the discovery of the Island.

Really?

We don't need her explanation of what happened. We've seen the crash ourselves from the inside, outside, sideways and upside down, and there was no flash.

There was proof shown on screen that Widmore set up the fake plane. They showed video and provided proof of the missing dead bodies that they used as "passengers". The actual plane crashed on the island in the pilot episode. The tail section went to one side of the island, the fuselage went to another, and the nose ended up in the middle. It happened. We saw all of that for ourselves.

There was no flash.

How would that explain the plane in the water better. We've seen all the pieces of 815 on the Island. The plane at the bottom of the ocean was obviously placed there by someone.

Guess I didn't really finish that thread of thought, sorry bout that.

What I meant by that was this, the plane, when it hit the wormhole, I guess kinda duplicated itself and the real plane went in the water. One far-fetched explanation I know but it is vaguely plausible. Vaguely. Very vaguely, sorta plausible. :)

So you're saying that this plane was moving along at cruising speed, broke up (which none of disagree with), and these people were sucked out of the hole, and flew with a horizontal speed (don't forget momentum) of between 120-300 miles per hour (or more), and landed on the island with barely a scratch. Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but both explanations have equal validity. SOME people were still in the cabin, but Jack? How can you explain him being that far away from the plane crash and surviving a fall through a tree filled jungle with nothing but a literal scratch.

Because it's not an island, it's a place where miracles happen. :)

If the explanation ends up being that they flashed off of the plane, I will be severely disappointed. If that was the plan, they should've shown the flash in the pilot episode and we could've all wondered, "hey, what was that weird flash right before the plane broke apart??" Instead, they didn't show it, so I'm going with it didn't happen.

I like this theory alot. I think it could explain how most of the passengers were completely unharmed.

They didn't drop it.

Kate: "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the... the front of the plane broke off."

She saw it, there was no flash.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but how many times (and from how many angles) have we seen the crash of flight 815?? There was NO flash.

This.

Besides, no offense to the OP, but the question/theory makes no sense whatsoever. If you're implying that Kate and the Losties were to 815 as Caesar and his fellow passengers are to 316, then we would also need to presume that 815 would've been missing some passengers. However, we know that's not true, because between the original Losties and the Tailies, everyone on the passenger list was accounted for.

I'm not sure about 815 missing passengers, but could any of this theory help explain why Jack was so far away from the actual crash scene? And we never actually saw Kate scrambling amongst the wreckage either. Everyone else seems to have landed on the beach, right?

I'm not sure about 815 missing passengers, but could any of this theory help explain why Jack was so far away from the actual crash scene? And we never actually saw Kate scrambling amongst the wreckage either. Everyone else seems to have landed on the beach, right?

Well, we know the fuselage landed in the forest, so I've always assumed that Jack and Kate simply fell out during its journey over that part of the island.

A) That's an amazing question.

B) Kate's the type that would hold on to that information. She doesn't share unless she's forced to, or can get something better out of it. Also, she may have a little Jack syndrome in that she just didn't believe her eyes, and hasn't said anything because of this, something that when she hears about all the time jumping, may actually come out.

C) Your avatar rules.

I totally agree with all the above - especially her not being what she saw.

Really?

We don't need her explanation of what happened. We've seen the crash ourselves from the inside, outside, sideways and upside down, and there was no flash.

There was proof shown on screen that Widmore set up the fake plane. They showed video and provided proof of the missing dead bodies that they used as "passengers". The actual plane crashed on the island in the pilot episode. The tail section went to one side of the island, the fuselage went to another, and the nose ended up in the middle. It happened. We saw all of that for ourselves.

There was no flash.

Exactly... We have seen pretty much everything we needed to prove that 815 actually crashed, and have nothing to believe that 316 didnt as well ..

Well, we know the fuselage landed in the forest, so I've always assumed that Jack and Kate simply fell out during its journey over that part of the island.

Yes, that's the solution I'm always ending up with, but it just feels like there's more to it than that :confused:

Really?

We don't need her explanation of what happened. We've seen the crash ourselves from the inside, outside, sideways and upside down, and there was no flash.

There was proof shown on screen that Widmore set up the fake plane. They showed video and provided proof of the missing dead bodies that they used as "passengers". The actual plane crashed on the island in the pilot episode. The tail section went to one side of the island, the fuselage went to another, and the nose ended up in the middle. It happened. We saw all of that for ourselves.

There was no flash.


I wouldn't write this off completely. These writer's like their reveals, so if they want to reveal that a flash happened on flight 815 and Kate saw it, they will. I don't believe her line in the pilot episode was a throw away line. There coming back to a lot of things from season one, and this could potentially be one of them.

I wouldn't write this off completely. These writer's like their reveals, so if they want to reveal that a flash happened on flight 815 and Kate saw it, they will. I don't believe her line in the pilot episode was a throw away line. There coming back to a lot of things from season one, and this could potentially be one of them.

Agreed. But no one in this thread (that I see) has mentioned people like Cindy. Was she seen at either crash site? I wouldn't discount that some passengers like Cindy may have in fact..Flashed.....therefore Kate may have an as yet unrevealed observation.

This thread makes no sense - it's a pretty huge leap in logic to equate Kate saying "I saw the whole thing" to meaning she saw people disappear or that there was a flash. Couldn't it just be as simple as the fact that she just, you know, saw the whole thing?

Agreed. But no one in this thread (that I see) has mentioned people like Cindy. Was she seen at either crash site? I wouldn't discount that some passengers like Cindy may have in fact..Flashed.....therefore Kate may have an as yet unrevealed observation.

Cindy was at the tail crash-site. She was involved in the entire aftermath of the crash. Their first night there she was taken by the Others.

1) Kate said she saw the whole thing. She didn't look behind her, but she knew the tail had come off, and then the front section came off.
2) We saw this from her vantage point, at least as far as the tail coming off.
3) We saw the plane break apart mid-air from the vantage point of New Otherton.
4) We saw the tail section hit the water.
5) However, we never saw an interior perspective after the point where the tail section came apart.
6) We've never seen how the people end up in the forest, on the beach, or in the water with no injuries or minor injuries.
7) We've heard no descriptions from anyone about those last moments, other than "next thing I knew..."

It makes no sense that Jack fell out of the plane as it passed over the jungle and landed in the bamboo grove with no broken bones. The island healing powers don't explain it. Island powers didn't prevent Locke's or Boone's bones from breaking from much smaller falls. This has been an open mystery from day one. The "flashes" give at least some sort of possible explanation. I don't think what Kate said has anything to do with it; but in the last moments, which we never saw, if Jacob or the island "flashed" some people down safely to the ground, that seems like the closest thing to a reasonable explanation put forward so far.
100%
Cindy was at the tail crash-site. She was involved in the entire aftermath of the crash. Their first night there she was taken by the Others.
Cindy wasn't taken until 40-some days later, on the trip across the island.

Agreed. But no one in this thread (that I see) has mentioned people like Cindy. Was she seen at either crash site? I wouldn't discount that some passengers like Cindy may have in fact..Flashed.....therefore Kate may have an as yet unrevealed observation.

Cindy didn't flash, she was part of the Tailies group until she was kidnapped along with the children who also crashed with the Tailies.

1) Kate said she saw the whole thing. She didn't look behind her, but she knew the tail had come off, and then the front section came off.
2) We saw this from her vantage point, at least as far as the tail coming off.
3) We saw the plane break apart mid-air from the vantage point of New Otherton.
4) We saw the tail section hit the water.
5) However, we never saw an interior perspective after the point where the tail section came apart.
6) We've never seen how the people end up in the forest, on the beach, or in the water with no injuries or minor injuries.
7) We've heard no descriptions from anyone about those last moments, other than "next thing I knew..."

I would argue that we actually do see a flash from Kate's perspective as she is putting on the oxygen mask, but the question is was that a flash Kate saw or just a flashback flash...if you know what I mean.

I stopped believing it a long time ago, but I'm back to thinking (this season) Kate knows something more and that there is a deeper mystery to her.

Very. Very. Interesting.

It's true that 48 people (not including tailies) survived an impossible crash with barely any injuries. Yet there were also many other people on the plane who died instantly. Remember all the bodies they had to burn?

The idea that there was a flash just prior to the moment of impact for flight 815 is indeed a distinct possibility. It would not directly negate Kate's statement. Even though she says she "saw the whole thing", she certainly wouldn't have been conscious at the moment her body was flung out of the fuselage into the jungle at 400 mph. Therefore she MUST have blacked out at some point, and after that moment we have no evidence of exactly what happened.

Also, simply because we saw the crash from the POV of the Others in Othersville does not mean there was no flash. We don't know if people on the Island at the moment of 316's crash would have seen the flash that took Jack/Kate/Hurley. It could be a flash that is only tangible to people who are in the process of crossing a "window" into the Island, and therefore would not have been observed by the Others.

That means it's entirely possible that everyone who DID survive the 815 crash were "flashed" off the plane just as J/K/H, but arrived mere moments after the crash had occurred as opposed to 30 years in the past.

Plus, we don't know how John Locke managed to get reincarnated on the Island, but I assume he didn't climb out of his coffin and walk to the beach. I think someone would have noticed him before he was found "a little way south on the beach" Did he "flash" as well, but was deemed not to be needed in the past, but in the present? He just wakes up on the beach instead. Just like the majority of 815's survivors probably did.

Sweet theory. Between this and the Mirror Matter Moon theory, my mind is reeling.
100%
Hah. Maybe there's a mandatory "crashflash" whenever there's a FWIP (Flight With Important People).

..another "flash" term for the LOSTionary... =P

Flash or not, I don't understand why anyone would think that Kate saw it and is keeping quiet about it. I know nobody ever shares information much on this show but you all really think she kept a flash of light secret? Why? What would it serve her?

I guess I just don't get why the mystery of flight 815 has to have occurred like flight 316 occurred. I also don't understand why anyone would think Kate would have some major need to keep a flash of light secret.

Flash or not, I don't understand why anyone would think that Kate saw it and is keeping quiet about it. I know nobody ever shares information much on this show but you all really think she kept a flash of light secret? Why? What would it serve her?

I guess I just don't get why the mystery of flight 815 has to have occurred like flight 316 occurred. I also don't understand why anyone would think Kate would have some major need to keep a flash of light secret.

Yeah, I don't even know where this whole idea came from. :confused:

Flash or not, I don't understand why anyone would think that Kate saw it and is keeping quiet about it. I know nobody ever shares information much on this show but you all really think she kept a flash of light secret? Why? What would it serve her?

I guess I just don't get why the mystery of flight 815 has to have occurred like flight 316 occurred. I also don't understand why anyone would think Kate would have some major need to keep a flash of light secret.


I think it comes from the fact that Kate has been really been hard to figure out lately and people are getting a feeling that there might be more to her than her participation in the triangle even if they don't know what it is.

When she saws I saw it, I saw the whole thing, she is referring to the fact that she did not black out like Jack did.

If she saw some sort of flash, why would this be a reference to her seeing that, and if it was, why wouldn't she clarify what she was referring to by telling Jack about the flash?

You can't see any sort of flash in that scene...and if there was one why would only Kate see it? Wouldnt we have seen it from the perspective of her flashback?

And what did it do if there was one?

I really dont think this is true at all, alot of times really old lines from episodes people take to mean something completely different for no reason at all when new information is revealed in the show.

When she saws I saw it, I saw the whole thing, she is referring to the fact that she did not black out like Jack did.


She didn't black out, not even for an instant? So, she had her eyes open and remembers every detail as the fuselage was cartwheeling through the jungle, when her body was propelled out of the cabin and into a dense jungle area?

I would take this to mean, she saw the tail break off, then the nose, and she assumed they hit the ground. I doubt she remembers a physical impact with the ground.

I'm not so sure that she saw something and is hiding it, but it sparked the notion in my noodle that there might have been a flash for the 815ers too, as it would explain the extremely unlikely circumstances surrounding their survival of a horrific plane crash brought on by an intense electromagnetic surge.

Well, we know the fuselage landed in the forest, so I've always assumed that Jack and Kate simply fell out during its journey over that part of the island.

I love this theory. That is some soft jungle ground and some weed like trees.

For those who were kind of confused by the speculation about Kate, it's old speculation, but there are a lot of things that seem cryptic or don't seem to be the whole story in Kate's flashbacks. Then there are also times like when Ben tried to force Kate to have breakfast with him and it cuts away...

Some speculate that Kate might have been connected to the island in some way, perhaps even way back to as a child like Charlotte. If Kate is being manipulated by forces bigger than her, perhaps to protect people she cares about, maybe that is why she cannot tell her friends what she saw. (The other speculation is that she actually is manipulating all of them willingly as an "Other," but to me, that seems out of character for her and what we have seen).

I know all of this might be way out there and not end up true in the series, but that's where (I believe) some of the speculation that showed up on this thread might be coming from...just thought I would offer a brief post for everyone who asked where it was coming from.