I waited for that moment like 13 months!. Im so happy to see them in a same scene together :crush:!. They are the best Lost pair:kiss1:.

I'm hoping they don't get together myself.

It was such a tease though. Damn sweeps! But I loved the look they shared. So lovely!

It was such a tease though. Damn sweeps! But I loved the look they shared. So lovely!

This is a part of the ABC recap, for that little scene.

The next morning, Sawyer and Juliet are woken up by their phone ringing. Jin is on the other end, and Sawyer is shocked to hear what Jin reports and tells him not to bring them in, to meet in the North Valley. Sawyer rushes out, not telling Juliet what it's about, and drives out to the meeting point. Jin drives up in the Dharma van and stops... and out steps Hurley. Then Jack. And the last person out is Kate. She sees him and smiles. Sawyer is amazed -- BOOM.

I'm hoping they don't get together myself.

I don't think they will. I'm sure they will have a nice reunion catching up on "things". BUT don't forger, Sawyer has made some pretty big changes in his life and his attitude, and a large part of that is because of Juliet. She has been very good to, and for him. And he loves her and she loves him. They are living together. And they've obviously been through a hell of a lot together in three years.

If he's changed, I mean really changed, there's no way he's going to throw what he obviously has with Juliet away, for something he thinks is better. And if people really like and care about the character of Sawyer, then they should be happy that he's moved on and found love and happiness. Instead of waiting and hoping that he throws that all away because Kate is back. IF Kate ever cared about Sawyer then she will also be very happy in the change in him and the fact that he's found love and happiness and moved on with his life. Besides, I don't see that happening to Juliet again. Her and Sawyer are very good together.

I will repeat this until I get it myself, why is it so hard to believe that Sawyer is actually happy and in love with Juliet?? He could do a hell of a lot worse. He explained it all out.......he had a "thing for a girl once, and now he can't even remember her face....she's just gone."

The ending was nice that they all saw each other, but I didn't see any big OMG moments between Kate and Sawyer. I think Sawyer was shocked that ANY of the 06 actually made it back to the island. That's all. Now, I know Kate and Sawyer have a little past history together and they will have a nice reunion with each other. But more than romantic, it will be "shocking" that she made it back and he is still alive. I'm sure Sawyer still cares about Kate and they will share those memories together forever, but he has moved on and I am glad for him and Juliet.

He is so much better in the role that he's in now. Instead of the grumbly, snarky googly-eyed lost puppy dog he used to be. Although the line about the "guy with the eye-liner" was hysterical.

I hope Kate and Sawyer have a nice time together, but I don't think they will go "there" again. Everyone has moved on with other people. Now it's time to figure out what the hell they are all supposed to do next, as far as the island and all that important stuff.

I like Sawyer and Juliet together. She's actually a decent woman. Kate pales in comparison as relationship material. Constant problems, issues, bad treatment, lies, you name it.

she has become decent, hasn't she. it would be a dirty shame to see him drop her for kate. it might even bring some of her prior anger toward kate right to the surface!

I think the last scene was a set up to the reunion between these two characters and I think they'll have some stuff to discuss - Kate has to get Sawyer up to speed on Clementine and they'll each find out about the other's serious involvement with Juliet and Jack, respectively. I think on some level they'll always care about one another, but I think Kate will be happy for Sawyer's transformation into James and for his happiness with Juliet. I think they will acknowledge in another time or place, they could have been together but that train has left the station. I think it will have its poignancy but I don't think it will go beyond that. However the conversation(s) go, I hope they are believeable and not soap opera-ish, I don''t want any more of that

squid

Let's not forget that Jack and Kate had make-up sex less than 24 hours ago. Okay, Kate doesn't exactly seem "loved up" the next morning, but I think it would be childish writing to suggest that Kate and Jack have been on-off for three years, most recently "on", and Sawyer and Juliet have been living in bliss for three years, but suddenly they'll drop it all for the one they were never sure about to begin with.

From the Promo for the next Ep . . .

Sawyer says something about having to integrate the O6ers as soon as possible before they screw up everything they've got in Othersville - Sawyer is more worried about losing the life he's made for himself in Dharmaland than anything with Kate.

I must give Sawyer and out with Juliet as well because Kate was NOT an option for him. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. They moved on, but Neither of them were prepared for what seeing each other again would do to them. That last scene made that much clear to me.Now i expect their relationsip slowly to develop which will ultimately end the triangle.

BINGO, lucidity! it hit me when sawyer was walking through the barracks and picking a beautiful flower for juliet. i thought, hmmmmm, he seems really happy, really right in his element. isn't it what he said he wanted to do with kate in the economist? he said that it wouldn't be too bad to just stay and play house. well, that's what he's doing except with another gal. the thing is is that he maintained his leadership when he went and talked to richard, and somehow, he's convinced juliet to keep staying on the island even though the sub was there, going back and forth. he may be waiting for the o6 to return, which is really a nice gesture, but i think he's having a really groovy time!:laughing:

Anyone going to actually talk about the reunion scene? Jaters, I know you want to drive home that skate isn't going to happen but there are other threads where that is being discussed.

It was sweet you can tell it's not over between them :)

Agree Pauly. I think what was evident from that scene (And Sawyer trying desperately to convince Horace and himself that 3 years is enough time) is that there are still feelings there that need to be resolved. Something needs to happen. Either closure for good or [what i hope] a reconciliation.

Yeah that's what I took from that scene aswell. He was trying to convince himself that he was over her. I bet he dreams about her still he's not going to forget the face of freckles lol

A reconciliation later down the road though. Right now it just wouldn't make any sense and all characters would look bad. Either way I can't wait to see what happens!

Before the episode, I really wanted Skate back together. By the time the episode ended, I was like "NOOOOOOO!!!!!" I just think Sawyer has come too far to fall back into that trap again. If he dumps Juliet for Kate, I'll hate him. That would be ridiculous. He's finally happy, seemingly, and living a normal-ish life with Juliet. Now Kate waltzes back into his life just when he's gotten over her finally. I will not be happy if they hook up. I hope he stays away from that.

Honestly, the Jate/Skate and shipper discussions usually make me want to hurl myself out of a window and I'm more into the mythology aspects of the show, but I have to comment on this because I really like Juliette for Sawyer.

I know people do some crazy things and attraction isn't a choice, but damn, put Kate up against Juliette and it's not even fair. Why go for an unstable wreck like Kate over the coolness of Juliette?

Honestly, the Jate/Skate and shipper discussions usually make me want to hurl myself out of a window and I'm more into the mythology aspects of the show, but I have to comment on this because I really like Juliette for Sawyer.

I know people do some crazy things and attraction isn't a choice, but damn, put Kate up against Juliette and it's not even fair. Why go for an unstable wreck like Kate over the coolness of Juliette?
I agree.

Lets end this boring Shipper stuff,
Let Sawyer and Juliet stay together, they're "happy"

I hope Jack finds someone new aswel, Kate's trashy.

Agree Pauly. I think what was evident from that scene (And Sawyer trying desperately to convince Horace and himself that 3 years is enough time) is that there are still feelings there that need to be resolved. Something needs to happen. Either closure for good or [what i hope] a reconciliation.

i thought you wanted to talk about the reunion:confused:.

the reunion was bittersweet. i would say that there will be a continuation into the next episode. i think that sawyer is very excited and in shock to see kate and jack and hurley. never thinking that they'd make it back, but waiting nonetheless. they could have jumped on a sub for three years, yet waiting for them was what he wanted to do. it was a nice smile that kate gave sawyer. jack, still, looks like the only one glad to be back, though.

Max, I am. Look at what you quoted. "That scene" is the reunion scene and i'm talking about Sawyer and Kate.

just like you did, i think it's hard not to mention several scenes in the episode that correlates with the reunion. the reunion, per se, was very short:frown: and there's not much to talk about. now the fact that he's with juliet and they've exchanged i love yous and he doesn't tell her where he's going all ties in together. especially his speech with horace. at least i didn't believe everything he said. i think he's over kate for the three years that they've been apart, but as soon as he sees her and realizes that she did come back, i'm sure the feelings rushed right back to the surface.

i'm just feeling it for juliet right now. even if he does decide to stay with her, kate being there cannot be good for her self esteem.

i'm just saying that for me, the reunion topic has to include talk regarding the majority of the episode and we cannot disregard the fact that it isn't a triangle anymore but a quad.;)

To talk about the reunion scene imo would be to make much ado about nothing. Last night was merely a setup to answer the question of whether 3 years is enough time to get over someone. Sawyer's speech to Horace was words, Kate being back is the real test and it was significant to me that when Horace was talking about Amy and Paul (her dead husband), Sawyer brought up Kate. In essence, comparing his loss of Kate to a wife's loss of her husband...that from his end it was that deep. The fact that Sawyer went to the bluff without telling Juliet anything was also significant. There will be more Sawyer and Kate to come. Last night, though, was not an OMG moment on the bluff to me. Struck me more as someone just dumbfounded that he was seeing people he never expected to see again.

I hope he stays with Juliette, she's had his back and supported more than Kate ever did. And I have to say that I love the fact that Kate's going to get a dose of her own medicine. No, you're not the only he cares for Kate, hurts a little don't it?

I hope he stays with Juliette, she's had his back and supported more than Kate ever did. And I have to say that I love the fact that Kate's going to get a dose of her own medicine. No, you're not the only he cares for Kate, hurts a little don't it?

Madge, me too All shipper stuff aside Sawyer and Juliet were great together but I don't have faith in the writers to at the very least not play around with the possibility of Sawyer and Kate and btw....we're both off topic :biggrin:

I hope this does not bring back he Sawyer, Kate, Jack love triangle again. How much more of this story line do we need to see before it starts to get repetitive? Now throw Juliet into the mix and we have a cube. It is starting to turn into Dawson's Creek.

So let me get this right... Sawyer and Kate knew each other on the island for a few months correct? Of that time they were romantically involved for a good portion of that. All the while Kate was bouncing from Sawyer to Jack and back again. They did their thing, they made out and got down together but did they really make a deep connection in that time?

Now Sawyer has been on the island with Juliet for 3 years and we can assume that they have been together as a couple for a majority of that. In that time Sawyer has settled down, matured greatly, and even come to show love (not just lust) for Juliet.
How then does it make sense that Kate comes back after all this time that Sawyer should dump Juliet and go running right back to her? Kate was essentially a hot crush but we are shown that Sawyer and Juliet are forming a real relationship.

Of course it could all be fake and later on we could see that Juliet and Sawyer weren't as perfect as we were lead to believe but that in my mind is a big cop out. If the writers continue to put people together and then pull them apart over and over again it will only lead to us growing more disillusioned and uninterested in the whole process.

For me this hits close to home because I have lived through a similar situation (sans the magical island, polar bears, and VW vans :cool:). I had a girlfriend for 6 months and we broke up. I moved on and now have a new girlfriend for the past 3 1/2 years. Recently I ran into the old girlfriend and while I was still attracted to her and think shes a great person I'm not interested in being with her anymore. I've moved on, I've become a new person and I love my new girlfriend more than anything. Imagine how she would feel and it would look if I just tossed her aside and went back to the old girl? For the sake of the show its romantic but in real life its a horrible thing and would be cosidered as much by many people.

Sawyer can have feelings for Kate but if he drops Juliet and goes after her again I would be angered by the way the writers handle this show. I think the writing team is split about who they want with who and that is evident with all this flip flopping going back in forth. Honestly Jack, Juliet, Kate and Sawyer should all just get together in one big relationship swamping family and be done with it.

If Sawyer goes back to Kate and Jack ends up with Juliet that better be it. No more flip flopping, no more decision making, no more changing their minds. Otherwise their characters look silly and like a bunch of teenagers who change their mind week after week.

Madge, me too All shipper stuff aside Sawyer and Juliet were great together but I don't have faith in the writers to at the very least not play around with the possibility of Sawyer and Kate and btw....we're both off topic :biggrin:

Okay, back to the topic. Sawyer looked from moved seeing Kate again for the first time. I can't wait to see Kate's face when she's reunited with Juliette...and sees her making out with Saywer. :)

I believed Sawyer when he said he couldn't remember Kate, there is a lot of memory lapses on this island, but it's obvious that he was lying. I will so write him off if he breaks up with Juliette.

For me this hits close to home because I have lived through a similar situation (sans the magical island, polar bears, and VW vans :cool:). I had a girlfriend for 6 months and we broke up. I moved on and now have a new girlfriend for the past 3 1/2 years. Recently I ran into the old girlfriend and while I was still attracted to her and think shes a great person I'm not interested in being with her anymore. I've moved on, I've become a new person and I love my new girlfriend more than anything. Imagine how she would feel and it would look if I just tossed her aside and went back to the old girl? For the sake of the show its romantic but in real life its a horrible thing and would be cosidered as much by many people.


But we are talking about fictional characters after all ;)!

But we are talking about fictional characters after all ;)!

True... but even though the show is based in a pseudo science reality, the characters should be based in some reality. Thats why we connect with them and care about what happens to them.

I guess I just need to put my vote out there that there is no more flip flopping. I'll maybe accept one more but the writers need to make up their mind and stick with it.

I thought the way they filmed the reunion was beautiful, absolutely perfect...everything I hoped it would be.

We heard Sawyer commiserating with Horace about three years...all one has to do is watch his face as his memories of Kate come flooding back, and then he smiles sadly as he acknowledges that "she's just gone". The emotion was still very much there, but Sawyer has come to accept that he's likely never going to see Kate again. He is content with Juliet, but their comfortable relationship can not compare to the passion he had with Kate.

You get one shot to find someone you want to "name dumb stars with". For Sawyer, that is Kate.

And then suddenly, she was standing in front of him again. As with other moments between Sawyer & Kate, the world seemed to fall away, time slowed down, and it was just the two of them, holding each others' gaze. The music was already emotional, but as Kate stepped into the screen, it morphed into 'Romancing the Cage', which is the famous Skate love theme. Sawyer had been musing that he had forgotten her face; suddenly the camera (giving us Sawyer's POV) was full of it. They filmed that shot very tightly, just Kate with a small smile on her face, no make-up, no stylish hair, a'la 'Monica' that we've seen back in the real world. This was Island!Kate returning, hair somewhat mussed, no make-up. "His girl" (tm Carlton Cuse) had returned, and the expressions exchanged between them spoke volumes. It actually reminded me of their reunion hug in 'One Of Us', when they just looked quietly and calmly at each other, with no words, before walking into each others' arms.

I loved the parallels in this episode (Amy keeping Paul's necklace = Kate keeping Sawyer's secret), and it opened up Lost's romance tunnel a little wider, made the light a little brighter.

I waited for that moment like 13 months!. Im so happy to see them in a same scene together :crush:!. They are the best Lost pair:kiss1:.

Kate`s a skank. Juliet is a much better catch than Kate.

I loved the parallels in this episode (Amy keeping Paul's necklace = Kate keeping Sawyer's secret), and it opened up Lost's romance tunnel a little wider, made the light a little brighter.

I don't consider myself a "Jater" or a "Skater" but I think we know which one you fall under. :rolleyes:

I suppose this storyline is more important to the people who fall more on the side of the romance/character interaction part of the storyline compared to the weird/mystery/twist part of the storyline. That being said I do want Kate to make her decision (whatever it is) and go with it. I think for too many seasons now Kate has been shown as getting weaker and weaker as she is defined by which guy she is going after (Jack, Sawyer, Erin). She started off as such a strong independent character and now her storyline has turned into who she loves and which one she’ll pick. Maybe every character can be defined this way but Kate is such an extreme example of this that she stands out from the rest of the ensemble.

Its one dimensional and I think her character could be so much more than that. I used to consider her the female lead on the show but I think that Juliet is starting to take that from her.

Again my argument is that to us this relationship between Sawyer and Kate has been going on for years but in (TV) reality it has only been a few months that they were interacting. Now so many years later after the fact it seems a bit hokey that they are fawning over one another still.

I will be honest though that I do like Juliet more as an evil, heartless character and Jack has more to live for with his father and trying to save everyone. I think at this point the only thing left to resolve in Kate and Sawyers storyline is if the two of them end up together. Once thats established I don't know what else the characters have to offer as far as development.

I agree with the OP and Icekat you put it so beautifully.

It was definitely worth the wait. :wub:

The episode was built upon the idea of moving on from loss, but keeping faithful. Sawyer said he'd wait for Locke and the others for as long as it takes. he always held out faith that Kate and the others would return one day.

But after lying awake wondering if he should have let Kate go, his memories of her faded. And he tried to convince himself he was over her. He tried to move on with Juliet and build a nice comfortable safe life. If you can't be wth the one you love, love the one you are with. He made do with the situation, and genuinely fell for the awesome Juliet.

But the episode was structured to build to the moment of Sawyer seeing Kate again, seeing her face again. And they shot and scored and edited it in caring detail. It was framed as a big, emotional moment.

And I absolutely adored it because it proved that Sawyer was so wrong in thinking he was over her. Just seeing her again was enough to completely amaze him, and throw him for a loop. Truly an epic moment.

And of course it doesn't bode well for his relationship with Juliet. Why? Because you can't turn off feelings, even if you really want to. Just wait and see.

Do I think that Sawyer is going to dump Juliet just like that? No way. He's a changed man. And he loves Juliet. I think he will try to hold on to what he has now, and will try to deny what he had and STILL has with Kate. But.. I think that eventually something will happen to lead him back to Kate, his first love.

In the ABC recap it confirms that Sawyer hides the fact that Jack, Kate and Hurley are back from Juliet. That shows that the cracks are already forming, in that one instinctive moment. IMO he wanted to see Kate again and reunite with her without Juliet being there. It was a reflexive thing, and if he thought about it he'd be ashamed of it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The question through the whole episode was : Is three years enough to get over someone? Sawyer thought so, told Horace so. But at the very end, I think we get the real answer. Which is no. Not when it's the love of your life. Not when it's Kate. And I think in future eps you will see that it's the same for Kate too. But since I don't have a crystal ball, I could be very wrong in thinking this. :biggrin:

:wub: I believe Skate is the end game!

I was never more sure than I was as I watched the last few minutes of 'LaFleur".

That reunion scene was the book end to the spectacular kiss.

But Sawyer's time with Juliet has made him a better man. She kept him sane when he was losing it over losing Kate and then she made him happy. I can't find anything not to like about that. Sawyer now has a 'taken' sign on him and Jack has come back to face his fate. Hopefully with Sawyer not an option to run to since she is currently pissed at Jack (Sawyer was right about that in Eggtown) and Jack not much of an option at all at this point since Kate appears to be distancing herself from him (and a little ashamed of her one night stand); Kate will have to deal with Kate on her own. Finally. Again, there's not much not to like about that.

No more ping ponging, just time for reflection and to recognize just who these two men are. Jack faced adversity by ignoring it, hiding from it in self pity and with booze and a bottle of pills. Sawyer stepped up, took control, kept his people and the new ones he met safe. Jack had little use for his O6 buddies and none for the people left behind. Sawyer, three years later, is protective of his community and still watching for the return of Locke and the rest of his friends. Big difference. Kate needs time to see that. She knows who Jack is; she needs to find out who James is. I loved the entire episode and Josh has finally become James, with a side of Sawyer. Now just bring the scruff back please.

There is no reason for them to film that final scene, almost in slow motion, with close ups of both Kate’s and Sawyer’s faces and score it so beautifully except as a counterpoint to Sawyer’s claim that he had all but forgotten Kate. Even Jack turned his head and watched as Kate stepped forward and saw Sawyer for the first time in three years. Epic. Awesome. The kind of scenes Skate always gets. Jate’s something nice back home lasted one episode; Suliet's something sweet on the Island was covered in one as well. Skate, OTOH, has been given the OTP treatment across all five seasons of Lost. From the beginning to their spectacular separation to the reunion and whatever is coming up. TPTB have said separation is romantic and then separated Kate and Sawyer.

We still have the details of the promise coming up. Anyone who thinks this is the last chapter of Kate and Sawyer and their love story needs to buckle up, because we are all in for a bumpy ride! I'm sorry to see the amazing Juliet used to keep Kate and Sawyer apart and avoid the Moonlighting effect a while longer, but if TPTB handle what remains of the triangle/quadrangle as well as they handled last night's episode, I don't believe we will be disappointed. It can be done with grace, as they proved against all odds with 'LaFleur".

Truthfully I like the parallel TPTB built into this episode with SNBH. Despite all the things Jack and Kate should have had in common, should have been able to build a relationship on they still couldn't make it work because they lack the basic elements of trust and respect and frankly I don't believe they like each other much. They were using each other, Kate needed a daddy for Aaron and Jack needed something to hang on to as he went slowly crazy.

James and Juliet OTOH trusted, respected and supported one another. James was obviously proud of her when she faced her fears and with his support delivered that baby. We never saw Jack say of word of praise for the fine mother Kate became and as for supporting her in that effort, he shunned her and the child for years. I think we can assume that Juliet is probably proud as well of the man James has become and she supported that effort. She knows the despair he has survived to get to the place where he is. She has also seen and helped him learn to expect respect and to respect himself. Juliet and Sawyer have made each other better people. Jack and Kate brought out the worst in each other.

In my opinion, until we see the episode that involves the promise and excluding Kate love for Aaron, Jack and Kate are returning worse versions of themselves and finding Sawyer and Juliet as better versions than the two people they left behind. Jack and Kate are toxic, James and Juliet are healthy. Neither relationship may have been meant to be, but one had a negative affect on both parties and the other a positive one. Big difference, interesting parallel.

:in_love: Skate has been off our screens for far to long, but last night makes me believe they are Lost's OTP and that their story is just beginning, AGAIN.

Going off topic for a sec, sorry! What's OTP?

No more ping ponging, just time for reflection and to recognize just who these two men are. Jack faced adversity by ignoring it, hiding from it in self pity and with booze and a bottle of pills. Sawyer stepped up, took control, kept his people and the new ones he met safe. Jack had little use for his O6 buddies and none for the people left behind. Sawyer, three years later, is protective of his community and still watching for the return of Locke and the rest of his friends. Big difference. Kate needs time to see that. She knows who Jack is; she needs to find out who James is. I loved the entire episode and Josh has finally become James, with a side of Sawyer. Now just bring the scruff back please


i didn't know this thread was a character assassination opportunity. get over the jack stuff. this is about sawyer and kate and their reunion. this isn't about why you think she should choose sawyer. seems to me sawyer's with someone.

madge, OTP...on the potty?

unless Sawyer's father rises from the dead and starts haunting everyone, Sawyer will always need to get back to Jack. Hell...Lost is Jack!!

i didn't know this thread was a character assassination opportunity. get over the jack stuff. this is about sawyer and kate and their reunion. this isn't about why you think she should choose sawyer. seems to me sawyer's with someone.

madge, OTP...on the potty?

Ha, I don't think so. I see it used every once in a while and the poster before me used in their last sentence.

I'll be interested to see if she was ever in contact with Cassidy. Also if he'll ask her if she filled his request. And if she did, did she find out what he did to Cassidy and does she know about it.

Going off topic for a sec, sorry! What's OTP?

It's One True Pairing, Madge.

It's One True Pairing, Madge.

Gotcha. Thanks!

The question through the whole episode was : Is three years enough to get over someone? Sawyer thought so, told Horace so. But at the very end, I think we get the real answer. Which is no. Not when it's the love of your life. Not when it's Kate. And I think in future eps you will see that it's the same for Kate too.
:shesaid: I can't wait to get the fill-in from Kate's side, watching her fulfill the promise, and see a little emotion from her back in the real world...emotion that she had to keep buried deep.
But since I don't have a crystal ball, I could be very wrong in thinking this. :biggrin:

Nope. Even without a crystal ball, I can tell you that you're not wrong. ;)

Sawyer's committed to Juliet. And it's awesome, because Kate's finally going to see that the guy that she thought was just a fun weekend, is fully capable of being a stable, loving, respected pillar of society. Boy did she judge those book covers incorrectly.

I think we are about to see the chapter where Kate realises her folly. Whether Sawyer does a Rhett on her, or takes her back, or sticks with Juliet, or something else happens, I don't know. But I do know that the guys who create and produce this show made a big deal out of that final scene. It had all the bells and whistles of a grand romance. Stay tuned....;)

It's been three years for Sawyer and Juliet but it's been one episode for us and I don't think that will be lost on the writers. We've had four seasons of skate and one episode of Suliet so I do expect Skate to be back in the game now :)

The last scene of the episode was absolutely beautiful. It was everything I hoped it would be. Tentative, honest and tender. Kate gave James the same sweet and misty look she gave him in One of Us. The longing in Sawyer's eyes showed that he has never forgotten his Freckles. I loved the way Jack and Hurley framed Kate, and the way that Jack turned to her, realizing how important this moment was to her and James. There was so much history and so much love in those exchanged glances.

I have no idea where their relationship will go from here. It is enough for me to know that the connection they have always had is still there.

I'll be interested to see if she was ever in contact with Cassidy. Also if he'll ask her if she filled his request. And if she did, did she find out what he did to Cassidy and does she know about it.


i think when cassidy sees her again, they should recognize each other and then all the things cassidy told kate about "her man, sawyer" will come flooding back. yes, i think she's knows everything that sawyer did to cassidy and the baby.


Jack turned to her, realizing how important this moment was to her and James



i saw that too. it was a nice touch. but i look at it as jack finally seeing that sawyer and kate have a connection that he needs to trust and that he has nothing to worry about anymore. my theory.

I'll be interested to see if she was ever in contact with Cassidy.
Of course we are going to see her again. Once this Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet thing gets resolved they will throw her into the mix to spice things up.

Also if he'll ask her if she filled his request. And if she did, did she find out what he did to Cassidy and does she know about it.
I assume we are going to see Clementine Philips at some point. Back in the flashback for "Every Man For Himself", Sawyer gets a "commission" for finding out where the stolen 10 million was stashed. I don't think that story line was resolved.

i saw that too. it was a nice touch. but i look at it as jack finally seeing that sawyer and kate have a connection that he needs to trust and that he has nothing to worry about anymore. my theory.

I think Jack realized that Kate and Sawyer have a romantic bond long ago, especially after What Kate Did when he witnessed her giving James the pill and him admitting in his delirium that he loved Kate. I think she has strong feelings for both men. It will be interesting to see where TPTB takes this, now that all four members of the love quad are on the island.

I saw their reunion as something between Kate and Sawyer, and nobody else. It seemed as if the rest of the world fell away.

I saw their reunion as something between Kate and Sawyer, and nobody else. It seemed as if the rest of the world fell away.

It was absolutely beautiful. And that's exactly how it was meant to be perceived, too...the rest of the world falling away, they're the only two left in it, gazing at each other at long last. Sawyer forgot her face...and suddenly her face was his entire world.

I hope they'll pick up the next episode right where this one left off...where we'd see their first words to each other, and maybe even get an awkward hug... :wub:

the hugs were in the previews for the next show.

It was pretty cool the way they had Jack and Hurley emerge first. Saving the best for last. They were flanking her, she was the center of attention. And the way they shot it, just focusing on their faces. Beautiful. Tentative, honest and tender is a great way to describe those looks. It was wonderfully subtle and yet also spoke volumes.

I have no doubt we're in for some more tentative awkwardness around each other. So much has happened. They've both tried to move on. But the connection is still there.

And Jack witnessing it is just as it has always been. He's been there for a lot of their big emotional moments. And eventually he's going to learn to let go. It will be major growth for him IMO. :biggrin:

It was absolutely beautiful. And that's exactly how it was meant to be perceived, too...the rest of the world falling away, they're the only two left in it, gazing at each other at long last. Sawyer forgot her face...and suddenly her face was his entire world.

I hope they'll pick up the next episode right where this one left off...where we'd see their first words to each other, and maybe even get an awkward hug... :wub:

I couldn't believe the ending was so overtly, unabashedly romantic--the music, the slight slowing, the beautiful clear light, the close-ups on those wonderful, evocative faces. My warm gooey side was completely satisfied. In fact, I was really satisfied with this episode. Can't wait to see how this reunion unfolds.

Hey you can't have a skate moment without the best music on Lost: the skate theme :)

I definitely don't favor Skate, but I am not so shippy thatI can't be objective. I saw glimmers of remembrance that they once had feelings for each other, but nothing that said that they were still in love. For a reunion, it was verrrrrrrrrrrrry underwhelming, IMO.

agreed, meddy. i thought there would be tears and shock on her face. jack looked at kate and then back at sawyer and smiled, like he was happy for sawyer that his "friend" was back. jack has no worries.

A lesson one must learn as a Lost Fan is that rarely ever does anything go as you want. Plus, the writers have what they want to do set in stone. No ranting from us can change that as is clear with the prolonging the triangle after "I do" .

The reunion was magnificent. I wanted it longer but even those 5 seconds were more than anything Sawyer/Juliet did. That music always makes me go all soft inside. I quickly ran to my fav Skate vids on Youtube and had a nostalgic lookback myself. It was worth the wait. Sawyer saw Hurley and Jack but he kept looking behind them. That was obvious from the way he was angling his head. When he did see his Freckles, he took off his glasses. I thought glasses were to make you see better but he did not need them because that face has been imprinted in his mind for years regardless of what anyone else thinks.

There was shock, recognition and then acceptance. Yes, he had been lying to Horace about 3 years being enough and that last shutting of his mouth just showed, relief. satisfaction. He had been searching and waiting for 3 years and now here she is. He needed that moment. No Juliet was going to take that away from him no matter what happens. It was like Kate was almost afraid to come out of the bus. When she saw him, she had that little smile. I think kate really feels guilty for not staying back. Just like Sawyer feels guilty for not taking his chance.

I think we need to wait for the next Katecentric episode before we start accusing her of not pining or showing that she missed Sawyer or whatever. Surely, when after 3 years you are keeping a promise for someone it means that person is still very much in your thoughts. A promise that tore apart a relationship you tried to build. For someone whose name you could not bear to mention without a sob, and when you eventually did mention his name, she had that look.

If everyone could rewatch the scene where Jack says "But he's not here is he?" Watch Kates face. Evangeline Lilly when it comes to expressions and saying it all without a word, is absolutely excellent. When Jack said that, she looked pained as if, how could you? I think we are going to be wiser about Kates feelings for Sawyer very soon.

I do not expect Sawyer to just abandon Juliet. I want kate to suffer. I want them to show us Kate suffering, which is what I hope they mean by "pining". I want her to see that you can not judge a book by its cover and hopefully as she tries to achieve what she came back to the Island for which is clearly something to do with Aaron,she will realise that it always was and always will be Sawyer. Be him James or la Fleur or Ford. A name change can not change feelings. All those are superficial things. Calm, content, smiling, flowers are all aesthetics. What's inside Sawyer/James? We will find out and I can bet Freckles is very much a big part of what's in there. So is Juliet but not in the way some of you hope.

Let us remember that a lot of you are putting a lot of weight on 3 years. James told Horace he lay in bed thinking for a very long time if he had made a mistake. Is that the same bed with Juliet on it? If we are to believe the relationship is 3 years old then that means, he was still wondering about Freckles while Juliet lay next to him. So I guess, good old Sawyer, once a cad, always a cad :)


As a proud Skater, I am not worried. What is worthwhile never comes easy. They are going to torture us. they have tortured us with Jate and now with Suliet but they who laugh last, laugh best. it will all work out in the end because feelings don't get erased just like that. Kate will no longer be confused and that will be the clearest sign to Sawyer that his Freckles is ready, willing and able. They will be OTP.

i sure am glad the reunion is continued. it certainly wasn't long enough, at least for me. saw hurley hugging sawyer BIG in the previews and kate hugging as well. sawyer should be a happy man.

A lesson one must learn as a Lost Fan is that rarely ever does anything go as you want. Plus, the writers have what they want to do set in stone. No ranting from us can change that as is clear with the prolonging the triangle after "I do" .

The reunion was magnificent. I wanted it longer but even those 5 seconds were more than anything Sawyer/Juliet did. That music always makes me go all soft inside. I quickly ran to my fav Skate vids on Youtube and had a nostalgic lookback myself. It was worth the wait. Sawyer saw Hurley and Jack but he kept looking behind them. That was obvious from the way he was angling his head. When he did see his Freckles, he took off his glasses. I thought glasses were to make you see better but he did not need them because that face has been imprinted in his mind for years regardless of what anyone else thinks.

There was shock, recognition and then acceptance. Yes, he had been lying to Horace about 3 years being enough and that last shutting of his mouth just showed, relief. satisfaction. He had been searching and waiting for 3 years and now here she is. He needed that moment. No Juliet was going to take that away from him no matter what happens. It was like Kate was almost afraid to come out of the bus. When she saw him, she had that little smile. I think kate really feels guilty for not staying back. Just like Sawyer feels guilty for not taking his chance.

I think we need to wait for the next Katecentric episode before we start accusing her of not pining or showing that she missed Sawyer or whatever. Surely, when after 3 years you are keeping a promise for someone it means that person is still very much in your thoughts. A promise that tore apart a relationship you tried to build. For someone whose name you could not bear to mention without a sob, and when you eventually did mention his name, she had that look.

If everyone could rewatch the scene where Jack says "But he's not here is he?" Watch Kates face. Evangeline Lilly when it comes to expressions and saying it all without a word, is absolutely excellent. When Jack said that, she looked pained as if, how could you? I think we are going to be wiser about Kates feelings for Sawyer very soon.

I do not expect Sawyer to just abandon Juliet. I want kate to suffer. I want them to show us Kate suffering, which is what I hope they mean by "pining". I want her to see that you can not judge a book by its cover and hopefully as she tries to achieve what she came back to the Island for which is clearly something to do with Aaron,she will realise that it always was and always will be Sawyer. Be him James or la Fleur or Ford. A name change can not change feelings. All those are superficial things. Calm, content, smiling, flowers are all aesthetics. What's inside Sawyer/James? We will find out and I can bet Freckles is very much a big part of what's in there. So is Juliet but not in the way some of you hope.

Let us remember that a lot of you are putting a lot of weight on 3 years. James told Horace he lay in bed thinking for a very long time if he had made a mistake. Is that the same bed with Juliet on it? If we are to believe the relationship is 3 years old then that means, he was still wondering about Freckles while Juliet lay next to him. So I guess, good old Sawyer, once a cad, always a cad :)


As a proud Skater, I am not worried. What is worthwhile never comes easy. They are going to torture us. they have tortured us with Jate and now with Suliet but they who laugh last, laugh best. it will all work out in the end because feelings don't get erased just like that. Kate will no longer be confused and that will be the clearest sign to Sawyer that his Freckles is ready, willing and able. They will be OTP.

You're going to post this and then get on another thread and tell someone "Your level of Jaterism is unrivalled. You must be the President of the Republic. LOL" I know your new to the board but you might want to check yourself a little.

.

You're going to post this and then get on another thread and tell someone "Your level of Jaterism is unrivalled. You must be the President of the Republic. LOL" I know your new to the board but you might want to check yourself a little.

.

What am I checking myself for? I am a proud Skater which is clearly why I find Suliet a waste of time. This does not stop me from noticing that a lot of Jaters are suddenly enthusiastic Suliet supporters. Objectivity does not exist at all in my view. It's a case of, Sawyer out of the way, and now we can have Jate. Maybe a lot of Skaters would have done the same if it was Jacket being used as a pawn, who knows? For now, it's Suliet and I am just observing. Besides, this comment was in response to a comment by a Jater that while Sawyer did not gracefully bow out of the triangle, Jack did. I aws pointing out that this is not so and made a side comment.

I can think that about someone or some people and I may be wrong, or I may be right. It's just my opinion and oughtn't be an issue.

I waited for that moment like 13 months!. Im so happy to see them in a same scene together :crush:!. They are the best Lost pair:kiss1:.
And it's not even over yet. Of all the storylines, they chose that scene as their two week cliffhanger. I think that speaks volumes.


To talk about the reunion scene imo would be to make much ado about nothing.

. . .

Struck me more as someone just dumbfounded that he was seeing people he never expected to see again.A lot of the recaps gave it more importance, as do I. The timing of Sawyer's speech and the return of the O6 wasn't lost on them or me. And there's a reason they revealed Kate last, and a reason they started up the Skate theme. It wasn't to show Sawyer was "dumbfounded".

Besides, if Sawyer really believed he'd never see them again, would he really be wasting Jin's time by sending him out searching for them, day after day, grid by grid? Locke said he was going to bring them all back, and it's clear Sawyer still held out hope they would return, even three years later.



We heard Sawyer commiserating with Horace about three years...all one has to do is watch his face as his memories of Kate come flooding back, and then he smiles sadly as he acknowledges that "she's just gone".
Though her face may have faded, and he didn't think of her as often, he'd forgotten about her just about as much as Kate had forgotten about him - she was still honoring a promise to him, three years later, and he was still searching every day.



Again my argument is that to us this relationship between Sawyer and Kate has been going on for years but in (TV) reality it has only been a few months that they were interacting. Now so many years later after the fact it seems a bit hokey that they are fawning over one another still.
It isn't really a three week relationship versus a three year one, it's four seasons versus one episode. The long term romance is between the audience and Skate, they built it up over four seasons. Suliet is the short term one, and as cute as it is, the audience can't really be that invested in it after one episode, as cute as it may be.


unless Sawyer's father rises from the dead and starts haunting everyone, Sawyer will always need to get back to Jack. Hell...Lost is Jack!!
What does this have to do with the reunion?



I think we need to wait for the next Katecentric episode before we start accusing her of not pining or showing that she missed Sawyer or whatever.
I agree, as much as I love Suliet, I have a feeling when they reveal what really happened with the promise, the audience will fall in love with Skate all over again.

I can think that about someone or some people and I may be wrong, or I may be right. It's just my opinion and oughtn't be an issue People? it is an issue when you are talking rudely about posters opinions. we're discussing characters on a show, not how YOU feel about MY opinions. my opinion is that you sound just like someone i've met before on these threads. and my opinion is still the same.

People? it is an issue when you are talking rudely about posters opinions. we're discussing characters on a show, not how YOU feel about MY opinions. my opinion is that you sound just like someone i've met before on these threads. and my opinion is still the same.

Then maybe you should ignore me.

Then maybe you should ignore me.

that would be impossible when you insult me. i'll just report you.;)

Of all the storylines, they chose that scene as their two week cliffhanger. I think that speaks volumes.
Excellent point TRoss. The fact that Jack, Hurley and Kate were back on the Island was an incredible WTF?! moment, and they ended one episode with them seeing Jin again. But coming into a 2-week break, they let the camera move from Sawyer's face to Kate's and back, while their love theme played slowly in the background.

That is not for nothing. :)

jack has no worries.

This is Mr. Jealousy we're talking about here... it's impossible for him NOT to have worries. Sadly for him, though, I think he managed to disillusion, hurt and lose Kate all by himself off the island. I just don't think he's realized that yet. JMO, of course.

Though her face may have faded, and he didn't think of her as often, he'd forgotten about her just about as much as Kate had forgotten about him - she was still honoring a promise to him, three years later, and he was still searching every day. - TRoss
True. And I think both of them were telling themselves the whole time that it didn't mean they still have feelings for the other. Oops. Now that they're face to face again, they'll realize it's not so easy to just sweep feelings under the rug when you want to.

I know a lot of people were looking forward to this reunion. I kinda was but not for Sawyer and Kate. i have to say I really enjoyed Juliet and Sawyer together.

For me personally, ending the episode with Sawyer and Kate starring at each other kinda disappointed me. I hope and pray they don't bring Sawyer and Kate back together. He finally put her behind and fell in love with someone that I fully believe can be the kind of woman he needs.

But coming into a 2-week break, they let the camera move from Sawyer's face to Kate's and back, while their love theme played slowly in the background.

That is not for nothing. :)

Reminds me of the Season 3 mini arc...They ended it with great music and Sawyer and Kate together...a season and half later Jack and Kate are engaged. Now we have this two week break with great music ending the episode and Sawyer and Kate are together...wait for it...with a season and a half to go...hmmmm!

The way Sawyer looked at Kate in the reunion was just devastating and beautiful at the same time. Josh Holloway truly is a great emotional actor. Disbelief, happiness, and love all shone in his eyes. His attention was only on her, making it clear she is the one he has been sending Jin to find for all these years.

I think all skaters and Jaters have felt both confident and doubtful about their ship. One minute 1 couple is on top and then the next they're at the bottom of the barrel.
I felt confident in Skate because they received an emotional and slow development. We got to see their first everything in careful detail. Their scenes were always handled with care, even the unhappy ones. Of course now that they took it this far with Suliet, I have my doubts. Can the writers really do this to Juliet again?
Gregg Nations once said that we should have faith and that's what I have at the moment. Faith that whether Skate ends up together or not, it's done right. It will make sense.
I have put in years into this ship and I will not desert it until the fat lady sings. And we still have a long way to go until she takes the stage :)

i thought you wanted to talk about the reunion:confused:.

the reunion was bittersweet. i would say that there will be a continuation into the next episode. i think that sawyer is very excited and in shock to see kate and jack and hurley. never thinking that they'd make it back, but waiting nonetheless. they could have jumped on a sub for three years, yet waiting for them was what he wanted to do. it was a nice smile that kate gave sawyer. jack, still, looks like the only one glad to be back, though.

Well, if there was an actual "reunion" to talk about then we could talk about one. But, so far there hasn't been one! But, when the shocking and emotional reunion does happen, then we can discuss it then, and I'm sure we will!

Oh, if you're referring to that 20 second clip at the end as the big reunion, then I'd say Jack looked a hell of a lot happier to see Sawyer than Kate did, imo.
100%
I know a lot of people were looking forward to this reunion. I kinda was but not for Sawyer and Kate. i have to say I really enjoyed Juliet and Sawyer together.

For me personally, ending the episode with Sawyer and Kate starring at each other kinda disappointed me. I hope and pray they don't bring Sawyer and Kate back together. He finally put her behind and fell in love with someone that I fully believe can be the kind of woman he needs.


And if the whole 20 seconds at the end IS the reunion then THAT is not a reunion worth waiting for, imo. When Kate and Sawyer get a chance to catch up, I know it will be really sweet and nice and I hope they'll be the best of friends, however, that's as far as that will ever go again. I believe Evi just put out an interview about the "shocking reunion" if anyone's interested.

It will still be nice to have all the Losties back together again.
100%

For me personally, ending the episode with Sawyer and Kate starring at each other kinda disappointed me..

All I know is that if I was waiting for a reunion and that's why I got, I wouldn't be too jazzed. Sawyer was shocked that they were ALL back, after three years and Kate, well, she just kind of stood there in her dazed and confused state. Sure they threw in some nice music, but if that's the epic reunion then someone definitely missed the boat on that one. And as I've said before, I know there will be some moment when Kate and Sawyer play catch up on what they've been doing the past three years, but as evidenced by the show, they've both been living their lives and moving on, with other people.

Please tell me why it's such a bad thing that Sawyer is happy with someone else? Jeez, he could do much worse. Would you rather he just spent the last three years sulking and moping around (like he did the first 3 and 1/2 seasons)? I know some would love to see him just pining away for Kate, and maybe he did for a while. But three years later, he's fine. He's changed. He's become an imporant member of a "society" and he has a very nice, smart, intelligent, beautiful woman waiting for him at home. How exactly is that a bad thing? All I ever see as far as any real discussion or explanation on that issue, is that "Sawyer and Kate are OTP." And that is based on what exactly? Because if you're going to say the story, well, there's a lot of stories going on right now, and they all don't involve that in any way.

I am not negating that Sawyer and Kate had a thing for a couple months and that they do care about each other and I'm sure they always will. And given what ALL of them have been through on that island, I'm sure there's always going to be a bond between all of them. But based on what I've seen and read, and upcoming events, I'd say that Sawyer and Kate's "reunion" will not be what some may hope for. But, just like everyone else posting on these threads, that is just my opinion.

Anyway, Sawyer taking his glasses off and starring at three people he hasn't seen in three years, who somehow managed to find their way back to a disappearing island in 1974, was the ending for now and we'll just have to wait, watch and see what happens next.

This is Mr. Jealousy we're talking about here... it's impossible for him NOT to have worries


yes, he is mr. jealousy. but i think his trust issues have gotten better. i think he is sincerely happy for kate to see sawyer and know that he's not dead. and i think that jack was happy to see sawyer and vice versa.

I thought this thread was for those who wish to discuss and enjoyed Sawyer and Kates reunion. I have kept quiet for the last 9 months after being told to shut up (in much more graphic terms) by someone routing for the other ship on this here board. I read time and time again about skaters invading the celebration of certain scenes Jaters enjoy. But here you all are invading this one and changing the topic. Respect is a two sided street so can we please keep this on topic as I am enjoying reading others opinions on how wonderful this scene was.

I thought this thread was for those who wish to discuss and enjoyed Sawyer and Kates reunion. I have kept quiet for the last 9 months after being told to shut up (in much more graphic terms) by someone routing for the other ship on this here board. I read time and time again about skaters invading the celebration of certain scenes Jaters enjoy. But here you all are invading this one and changing the topic. Respect is a two sided street so can we please keep this on topic as I am enjoying reading others opinions on how wonderful this scene was.

Lmers I'm sorry someone was that rude to you but you should never let someone silence you with their stupidity or bad manners. I agree with your post that respect is a two way street but when you put a thread on the main board as oposed to the couches you have to be open to the comments of non-shippers and other shippers as well. That goes for jaters and sulieters(?) as well. If for example you read the Sawyer and Juliet thread you will see many ,many posts by skaters which are unfavorable/unkind and, on the main board, why not? Skaters should be able to share their perspective on that relationship.

All that being said, your post is well taken and respect should indeed be the order of the day from Jaters, Skaters and everyone else.

This should be a celebatory thread if I was a Jater I'd avoid this type of thread in the first place. I dunno why they want to come in here and discuss it?

I am certainly no shipper and I have no allegiance to Sawyer/Kate or Jack/Kate because frankly I don't know how any sensible man would want Kate, but doesn't the fact that Sawyer is happy with Juliet mean anything? This was certainly the happiest I've ever seen Sawyer and he legitimately seems in love. He only knew Kate for 108 days and now he's known Juliet for 3 years, and they seem to have a happy, stable, loving relationship. So wouldn't the fans of Sawyer be happy for him, regardless who he is with, or is it the allegiance to the Skate ship that is so important?

I actually think the Skater fans are far more happy to see the Kate and Sawyer reunion than Sawyer was to see Kate.;)

Having read some of the posts from Jaters and/or non-skaters on this thread, I worry. LOL. I know there are some things LOST leaves to the viewer to decide what the hell is going on, but there are some scenes that are exactly what they look like. Yes, the reunion was 5 secs. 2 secs if you like. Again, time is irrelevant. The FACT is, they have been hyping the reunion of KATE and SAWYER. Not just our losties. KATE and SAWYER from the beginning of season 5. The promo for La Fleur barely had anything about Suliet..LOL. It was all hyped on the reunion. They intelligently wove their tale of love and loss. 3 years later etc etc. They intelligently showed Sawyer talking to Horace about lost love. They showed Sawyer happy with what seems like a new love. Then they took their time and ended the episode with the camera focusing on Kate and Sawyer looking at each other as if there was no one else. What does that tell you? Whether it is a Jate episode or a Suliet episode, there is always a little bit of SKATE to let everyone know, where it is at. Some of you do not know why some SKATERS and even non-SKATERS think, Sawyer and Kate are endgame? No problem. You will find out soon enough.

Now, you can read into the looks whichever way you want. Whatever gets you through the night. Feel free. However, the writers and producers of LOST did not hype it, focus on it, put that much detail into it, i.e play the SKATE theme, have the camera zoom in on their faces because they thought it was not a big deal, because they thought Sawyer was just happy to see new friends. They could have started playing any theme once the van pulled up. They could have made Sawyer see all 3 at the same time. They did not. They showed Hurley and Jack and TOOK THEIR TIME to create the reunion they themselves say we have all been waiting for. Now, the thing with Skate is, we waited 55hrs to consummate SKATE. We can wait "as long as it takes". Make no mistake about that.

I'm glad that Sawyer is currently happy with Juliet. But IMO their love isn't the stuff legendary TV romances are made of. It's nice, it's calm, it's comfortable. Good for Sawyer at this stage in his development? Sure? Great TV watching? Heck no IMO.

Why should I be invested in something that got one episode of fast forward treatment (probably 10 mins of actual screen time) when I've been lucky enough to see all of Sawyer and Kate's firsts, their big moments, the process of them reluctantly falling in love with each other, their sacrifices for each other, the fights and the reconciliations. The heartbreak of their being tragically separated and so on. A syrupy flower scene is no way to build my emotional investment.

The way the PTB structured this episode, and the way that they framed the reunion makes me believe even more than ever that S/K will eventually be in the right place to be together again. As long as it takes.

In the meantime though, it's going to be angst time, with Sawyer being torn and not wanting to hurt Juliet, whom he loves, but just not in the way he once loved and still loves Kate.

Just as their idyllic life with Dharma is soon to come to a messy, complicated end (due to the arrival of the O3), so do I think that S/J will have to face the fact that their blissful domestic honeymoon time is now likely over.

I thought this thread was for those who wish to discuss and enjoyed Sawyer and Kates reunion. I have kept quiet for the last 9 months after being told to shut up (in much more graphic terms) by someone routing for the other ship on this here board. I read time and time again about skaters invading the celebration of certain scenes Jaters enjoy. But here you all are invading this one and changing the topic. Respect is a two sided street so can we please keep this on topic as I am enjoying reading others opinions on how wonderful this scene was.

hey there. that was me and im sorry. i edited it.


Now, you can read into the looks whichever way you want. Whatever gets you through the night. Feel free


that's funny you say that. it goes both ways.

In the meantime though, it's going to be angst time


angst is the backbone of lost!;)

Having read some of the posts from Jaters and/or non-skaters on this thread, I worry. LOL. I know there are some things LOST leaves to the viewer to decide what the hell is going on, but there are some scenes that are exactly what they look like. Yes, the reunion was 5 secs. 2 secs if you like. Again, time is irrelevant. The FACT is, they have been hyping the reunion of KATE and SAWYER. Not just our losties. KATE and SAWYER from the beginning of season 5. The promo for La Fleur barely had anything about Suliet..LOL. It was all hyped on the reunion.

Personally, I don't think they've been hyping the reunion of Sawyer and Kate but the return of the O6 to the Island. I think they've spent just as much time hyping the reunion of Sun and Jin as much as Sawyer and Kate.

And the reason that they didn't show anything regarding the Sawyer and Juliet relationship was because it was supposed to be a surprise, not because the relationship means nothing. It obviously means something, why throw in the ILY's? It's definitely an obstacle that will delay any Sawyer/Kate relationship. Also, I think it's important that they stressed Juliet has Sawyer's back, 3 different times in this episode. It parallels the same thing that Kate has said to Jack several times.

Since I'm not viewing the show through Skate biased glasses, my interpretations are completely different, and I certainly don't think it's FACT that they've been hyping the Sawyer and Kate reunion, any more than anything else. As I said, to me they've been hyping the O6 return to the Island above all else.

hey there. that was me and im sorry. i edited it.


that's funny you say that. it goes both ways.


angst is the backbone of lost!;)
No Max it was not you and it was not edited.

But.. wouldn't the 06 reunion be when they met Jin not when they met Sawyer. The reason it was a big moment was because of the Sawyer and Kate reunion not the 06 and Losties reunion I have no doubt.

Since I'm not viewing the show through Skate biased glasses, my interpretations are completely different, and I certainly don't think it's FACT that they've been hyping the Sawyer and Kate reunion, any more than anything else. As I said, to me they've been hyping the O6 return to the Island above all else.
I'd agree with you there.

I do think the cliffhanger was all about the Skate reunion. She's the last one revealed, and the music changes once she does, and he takes off his glasses once he sees her - all of this moments after his "I can't even remember what she looks like" speech. And then, cut to "LOST".

I'd agree with you there.

I do think the cliffhanger was all about the Skate reunion. She's the last one revealed, and the music changes once she does, and he takes off his glasses once he sees her - all of this moments after his "I can't even remember what she looks like" speech. And then, cut to "LOST".

I agree that the overall hype has been the return of the 06, but I also agree that with TRoss, that the "cliffhanger" is the Skate look, regardless of how you choose to interpret that look. Hey, I'm a full-fledged high octane Jater, but I can concede that they wanted to promote leaving a question mark in the minds of viewers about what the current status of Sawyer and Kate will turn out to be. That's part of the reason I see the look as ambiguous and IMO that is not hype for any particular angle of the octagon (or whatever) its simply teasing viewers that the next episode will give us more pieces of the puzzle. Until then, Skaters will hope for Skate, Jaters for Jate, ad naseum (at least according to those who despise shipping)

and that's just how I see, it of course... off to clean my lenses...
squid

I agree that the overall hype has been the return of the 06, but I also agree that with TRoss, that the "cliffhanger" is the Skate look, regardless of how you choose to interpret that look. Hey, I'm a full-fledged high octane Jater, but I can concede that they wanted to promote leaving a question mark in the minds of viewers about what the current status of Sawyer and Kate will turn out to be. That's part of the reason I see the look as ambiguous and IMO that is not hype for any particular angle of the octagon (or whatever) its simply teasing viewers that the next episode will give us more pieces of the puzzle. Until then, Skaters will hope for Skate, Jaters for Jate, ad naseum (at least according to those who despise shipping)

and that's just how I see, it of course... off to clean my lenses...
squid
Well said, squid.



And in the end, it's just a story, isn't it?

We all want things to work out for our favorite characters, but they're not real people, they're fictional. We might end up disappointed if our characters' storylines don't go the way we hoped, but no one in the real world is really getting hurt. Maybe we end up liking how the story was told, maybe we won't. But the only real injury will be to the pride of some of those who've turned some aspects of the show into a competition.

so what we should do is enjoy the writing and the acting since all we have is the rest of this season and next. with all the theories and possibilities, i'm ready for some surprises.

This should be a celebatory thread if I was a Jater I'd avoid this type of thread in the first place. I dunno why they want to come in here and discuss it?

To have a discussion and give another perspective...

I don't know how any sensible man would want Kate, but doesn't the fact that Sawyer is happy with Juliet mean anything? This was certainly the happiest I've ever seen Sawyer and he legitimately seems in love.


Sawyer's happiness doesn't count...does he score one over Jack? If the answer is yes then it's all good. :rolleyes:

However, the writers and producers of LOST did not hype it, focus on it, put that much detail into it, i.e play the SKATE theme, have the camera zoom in on their faces because they thought it was not a big deal

Oh yes...the Skate theme. From now on, I won't watch another TV show or movie. I'll just go out and buy the soundtrack...I'll be able to figure out the plot that way. :rolleyes: That said, it was an emotional scene.



And in the end, it's just a story, isn't it?

We all want things to work out for our favorite characters, but they're not real people, they're fictional. We might end up disappointed if our characters' storylines don't go the way we hoped, but no one in the real world is really getting hurt. Maybe we end up liking how the story was told, maybe we won't. But the only real injury will be to the pride of some of those who've turned some aspects of the show into a competition.

We agree on something...we'll see how long this lasts. :hypocrit:

hey Ei! ;) the music has been moving from the pilot. it actually makes me cry at the right moment. and i did get misty for all of them when they finally saw each other.

hey Ei! ;) the music has been moving from the pilot. it actually makes me cry at the right moment. and i did get misty for all of them when they finally saw each other.

There are a lot of episodes that had great music maxaholic...I just don't think the music has any bearing on the plot...I think it's there to emphasize a scene that's all. For instance, the boat launch scene comes to mind...great score there, but it didn't tell me that Walt was about to be kidnapped.

There are a lot of episodes that had great music maxaholic...I just don't think the music has any bearing on the plot...I think it's there to emphasize a scene that's all. For instance, the boat launch scene comes to mind...great score there, but it didn't tell me that Walt was about to be kidnapped.

The music isn't likely to provide spoilers, but it is there to focus and intensify response to a scene. When a theme is repeated from earlier, similar scenes, it's further evidence that this scene is intended to recall those other scenes and to evoke similar emotions. The score for that reunion scene was used in earlier romantic, emotion-filled moments between Kate and Sawyer. The score doesn't promise a happy ending for these two, but to me it suggests that we're not supposed to take that reunion scene as a bit of filler or a ho-hum moment, but an important and emotional one, for both characters.

i have to say this, way off topic. the boat launch.....i cried ever so hard for sun waving goodbye to jin. and that stupid dog! he makes me cry all the time. i miss vincent!

But.. wouldn't the 06 reunion be when they met Jin not when they met Sawyer. The reason it was a big moment was because of the Sawyer and Kate reunion not the 06 and Losties reunion I have no doubt.

Absolutely. The final scene of 'LaFleur' was all. About. Skate. No one else mattered - hell they barely even existed - in those brief seconds as their eyes locked. The camera kept Kate hidden until the "reveal" moment, and as she stepped out from behind Hurley, the camera gently zoomed in on her. Cutting from Sawyer's face, back to Kate's as she smiled gently, with their music playing in the background...before fading to black for a two week break? Was ALL about Skate seeing each other again. It's going to get complicated from here on in...but that one moment was absolutely beautiful for them.
100%
The music isn't likely to provide spoilers, but it is there to focus and intensify response to a scene. When a theme is repeated from earlier, similar scenes, it's further evidence that this scene is intended to recall those other scenes and to evoke similar emotions. The score for that reunion scene was used in earlier romantic, emotion-filled moments between Kate and Sawyer. The score doesn't promise a happy ending for these two, but to me it suggests that we're not supposed to take that reunion scene as a bit of filler or a ho-hum moment, but an important and emotional one, for both characters.

:clap: You nailed it!

The music isn't likely to provide spoilers, but it is there to focus and intensify response to a scene. When a theme is repeated from earlier, similar scenes, it's further evidence that this scene is intended to recall those other scenes and to evoke similar emotions. The score for that reunion scene was used in earlier romantic, emotion-filled moments between Kate and Sawyer. The score doesn't promise a happy ending for these two, but to me it suggests that we're not supposed to take that reunion scene as a bit of filler or a ho-hum moment, but an important and emotional one, for both characters.

I agree with you scenes like the reunion accompanied by music is not just a filler but an important moment...no argument there, but it's not a revealing moment. Other than that, I think you just restated what I said in a more eloquent manner.

I agree with you scenes like the reunion accompanied by music is not just a filler but an important moment...no argument there, but it's not a revealing moment. Other than that, I think you just restated what I said in a more eloquent manner.

Can a moment like that be both important and not revealing? I suppose it could just be repeating something we're already supposed to know--that these two have shared deep, emotional, overtly romantic moments before. But I think it's supposed to be both important and revealing--that this scene is intimately related to those prior scenes, and thus it's not unreasonable to expect further emotional development.

But I think it's supposed to be both important and revealing--that this scene is intimately related to those prior scenes, and thus it's not unreasonable to expect further emotional development.

I disagree here. I think that's what you want it to be...it's not necessarily what it is. Now if this was the last scene of the series then yes...but since it isn't, I think you're trying to read, or predict, the plot through the soundtrack.

The episode narrative was structured around the question of whether three years is truly long enough to get over a great love in someone's life, with the final reunion scene giving us the real answer. So much dramatic irony because the audience knows better than Sawyer when he's uttering those words to Horace. Kate's not gone forever. In fact he's about to see her in living color soon enough.

The final scene was shot and scored in way that reflected its importance to those creating this show and crafted these storylines. They gave it the epic treatment. For closure? Don't think so. ;)

We've got a season and half left to go, and anyone who thinks the romantic relationships are going to be settled and static from here on is likely in for a disappointment IMO.

The episode narrative was structured around the question of whether three years is truly long enough to get over a great love in someone's life, with the final reunion scene giving us the real answer. So much dramatic irony because the audience knows better than Sawyer when he's uttering those words to Horace. Kate's not gone forever. In fact he's about to see her in living color soon enough.

The final scene was shot and scored in way that reflected its importance to those creating this show and crafted these storylines. They gave it the epic treatment. For closure? Don't think so. ;)

We've got a season and half left to go, and anyone who thinks the romantic relationships are going to be settled and static from here on is likely in for a disappointment IMO.

I think the conversation with Horace gave us the question. I don't necessarily think the final scene gave us the answer, I do think the final scene presented the test. If I was transported to an island with no cigarettes it would be easy for me to jabber on about how I don't miss them. If someone lands in a helicopter on the island and emerges with a cigarette in their mouth, of course I'm gonna feel a rush and want one. Upon reflecting though is that the choice I'm going to make...do I really want to start smoking again....I think that's what we're going to have to find out in coming episodes. Think it's premature to say we have an answer as yet. We'll see.

I think the conversation with Horace gave us the question. I don't necessarily think the final scene gave us the answer, I do think the final scene presented the test. If I was transported to an island with no cigarettes it would be easy for me to jabber on about how I don't miss them. If someone lands in a helicopter on the island and emerges with a cigarette in their mouth, of course I'm gonna feel a rush and want one. Upon reflecting though is that the choice I'm going to make...do I really want to start smoking again....I think that's what we're going to have to find out in coming episodes. Think it's premature to say we have an answer as yet. We'll see.

Wonderful analogy.

Hmm likening Kate to an addictive vice that will inevitably blacken your lungs and kill you....okay. ;)

Actually the episode spent some time on the whole Paul/Amy/Horace triangle. It wasn't just that one scene. We saw Amy grieving over the loss of her husband, and letting go of his body as the price in order to save their people's fragile truce, we saw Horace trying to console her. We saw Horace's drunken antics which might have lead to further trouble with the natives, and which was all spurred on by his fight over the keeping of a momento of Amy's dead husband, the love she had lost. Horace was looking for reassurance that Amy had moved on with him and over Paul who is irretrievably dead, and Sawyer gave it. He did a good job of convincing himself too that he was over Kate who was NEVER, EVER coming back...

Which of course was the perfect way to set him up for getting his legs pulled out from under him the very next morning. Ta da, the one that got away, the one Sawyer wondered if he'd made a mistake with, the one that kept him up nights, that he grieved over losing, and nearly fell apart over when he saw her again in the jungle... is back. :biggrin:

The way I see it, it's more like your favourite pie in the world is banana cream pie. You can't get enough of it, and eat it every chance you get. But then for three years you can't get banana cream pie anymore at your local diner. It's off the menu. You crave it for a while, and then eventually settle on new york cheese cake as a substitute, which is yummy too, but in a different more sophisticated way. You're content, and maybe you think don't need banana cream pie anymore, can't really even remember why you craved it in the first place. But suddenly it's available on the menu again. What to do, what to do. :biggrin:

Hmm likening Kate to an addictive vice that will inevitably blacken your lungs and kill you....okay. ;)

Actually the episode spent some time on the whole Paul/Amy/Horace triangle. It wasn't just that one scene. We saw Amy grieving over the loss of her husband, and letting go of his body as the price in order to save their people's fragile truce, we saw Horace trying to console her. We saw Horace's drunken antics which might have lead to further trouble with the natives, and which was all spurred on by his fight over the keeping of a momento of Amy's dead husband, the love she had lost. Horace was looking for reassurance that Amy had moved on with him and over Paul who is irretrievably dead, and Sawyer gave it. He did a good job of convincing himself too that he was over Kate who was NEVER, EVER coming back...

Which of course was the perfect way to set him up for getting his legs pulled out from under him the very next morning. Ta da, the one that got away, the one Sawyer wondered if he'd made a mistake with, the one that kept him up nights, that he grieved over losing, and nearly fell apart over when he saw her again in the jungle... is back. :biggrin:

The way I see it, it's more like your favourite pie in the world is banana cream pie. You can't get enough of it, and eat it every chance you get. But then for three years you can't get banana cream pie anymore at your local diner. It's off the menu. You crave it for a while, and then eventually settle on new york cheese cake as a substitute, which is yummy too, but in a different more sophisticated way. You're content, and maybe you think don't need banana cream pie anymore, can't really even remember why you craved it in the first place. But suddenly it's available on the menu again. What to do, what to do. :biggrin:

Lol I knew someone would pick on the cigarette analogy but if banana cream pie works for you, then fine, banana cream pie it is. Or maybe, since that can be fattening, we can make Sawyer a health nut and have someone emerge from the helicopter eating an organic carrot or something :biggrin: but seriously yours works better, I like Kate as the banana cream pie and Juliet as the new york cheese cake....good dessert choices for them

I think we agree though that the questions is what to do, what to do...we'll find out

you know, it is what it is. if i was a skater, i'd probably be happy with the "beginning" of the reunion. there will be lots more to talk about on the next episode. and it's too bad that they've done this to us twice this season. cut the ending and then add onto the next show. as who i am, i enjoyed the last minute of the show because i couldn't wait for sawyer's reaction to everyone coming back. hurley's his buddy, kate is in his heart and jack, well, jack is becoming a friend, sundance to his butch cassidy. it just occurred to me, it really sucks that we didn't get jin and their reunion!:frown: we just got that glimmer of recognition and just a teeny weeny smile curving his mouth. i guess i can wait for the jin and sun reunion!:JC_hurrah:

timeless, you are new here, or relatively new. since you have arrived, you have done nothing but insult other posters, shippers and generally be disruptive by fanning the shipper war flames. this needs to stop now. stay on topic, do not drag in the other ship into the conversation. do not argue with other posters when they remind to stay on topic etc. they have been down this road before, and their counsel is wise. you really should listen to them.

the rest of you, whose posts have gone missing in the thread purge of off topic-y-ness.. tsk tsk you should know better than to allow a thread to run down that path. i know it is tempting to want to counter the points/comments but don't. just b/c someone new comes in doing it doesn't mean you all should do the same.

that is all.

Can a moment like that be both important and not revealing? I suppose it could just be repeating something we're already supposed to know--that these two have shared deep, emotional, overtly romantic moments before. But I think it's supposed to be both important and revealing--that this scene is intimately related to those prior scenes, and thus it's not unreasonable to expect further emotional development.

lizzie, this is exactly the case. TPTB obviously considered this an important moment, since they saved it 'til the last seconds, leading into a short break. "Leave 'em wanting more" is the rule they live by...and this scene was definitely scripted to leave the audience wanting more.

And just look at the care with which the scene was crafted. Good grief, could they have been any more obvious with their intentions? :shrug:

Things are going to get yummy/angsty between them, and I actually welcome it! Sawyer's current domestic situation will certainly serve it's purpose...it will cause angst & heartache between Sawyer and Kate, and it will keep them apart just a little longer (until the final season, I believe), until it's time for the writers to bring them back together for good. :)

hings are going to get yummy/angsty between them, and I actually welcome it! Sawyer's current domestic situation will certainly serve it's purpose...it will cause angst & heartache between Sawyer and Kate, and it will keep them apart just a little longer (until the final season, I believe),



Im fully expecting them to kiss by the end of the season :)!. I think the whole Skatey love will come in the season finale.

Im fully expecting them to kiss by the end of the season :)!. I think the whole Skatey love will come in the season finale.

This would be awesome, and certainly not out of the question, but I think they may hold out 'til next season to get another kiss. Just think...there's no rush. The series is coming to a close soon enough, and Sawyer/Kate currently have three years of separation and individual growth to make up for. They've got to get to know each other all over again. It took them a few months before...I expect nothing less the second time around. To rush them back together would cheapen the relationship, and it would indicate that TPTB are not serious about them being the endgame romance.

Because the best romances can not be rushed. They can't be jumped into in the middle, based on implication, and "fast-forwarded". They have to be built with care, and enough emotion and angst to get the audience wanting more. Sawyer and Kate are worth that, every time. :heart:

Because the best romances can not be rushed. They can't be jumped into in the middle, based on implication, and "fast-forwarded". They have to be built with care, and enough emotion and angst to get the audience wanting more. Sawyer and Kate are worth that, every time. :heart:
That's right. The real romance is with the audience. The writers have to make the audience fall in love, and the real long-term relationship in that case would be Skate.

Because the best romances can not be rushed. They can't be jumped into in the middle, based on implication, and "fast-forwarded". They have to be built with care, and enough emotion and angst to get the audience wanting more. Sawyer and Kate are worth that, every time. :heart:

Beautiful said. I think that was right what Evi meaned when she gave that interview about the Skate reunion!

When he did see his Freckles, he took off his glasses. I thought glasses were to make you see better but he did not need them because that face has been imprinted in his mind for years regardless of what anyone else thinks.

While I like your interpretation, he is far sighted, so would actually be able to see better with them off. (Aside: No, I have no idea why he was driving with them on. Maybe he needed to read a map or something.)

The way Sawyer looked at Kate in the reunion was just devastating and beautiful at the same time. Josh Holloway truly is a great emotional actor. Disbelief, happiness, and love all shone in his eyes. His attention was only on her, making it clear she is the one he has been sending Jin to find for all these years.

I wasn't sure if he was looking for the Oceanic '06 or for Rose, Bernard, and any remaining socks...but if he had any idea she was out there, I have no doubt he would look for her. I agree Josh Holloway's amazing acting really made the scenes...actually all the scenes in the episode...but this one was the one.

Gregg Nations once said that we should have faith and that's what I have at the moment. Faith that whether Skate ends up together or not, it's done right. It will make sense.

I truly believe in this statement, too. I trust that whatever the writers present us, it will answer our questions and complete our characters.

I think the conversation with Horace gave us the question. I don't necessarily think the final scene gave us the answer, I do think the final scene presented the test. If I was transported to an island with no cigarettes it would be easy for me to jabber on about how I don't miss them. If someone lands in a helicopter on the island and emerges with a cigarette in their mouth, of course I'm gonna feel a rush and want one. Upon reflecting though is that the choice I'm going to make...do I really want to start smoking again....I think that's what we're going to have to find out in coming episodes. Think it's premature to say we have an answer as yet. We'll see.

I can't believe you just compared Kate to cigarettes! :shocking:

Hmm likening Kate to an addictive vice that will inevitably blacken your lungs and kill you....okay.

Lol I knew someone would pick on the cigarette analogy but if banana cream pie works for you, then fine, banana cream pie it is.

Okay, I didn't wander into some weird Twilight Zone, everyone else knows that was a strange analogy, too! Phew. :lookarn:

~

Anyway, about the scene--it's clearly cut off midway through. I wouldn't really even call it a reunion, more like the precursor to a reunion. It was really disappointing the way the marketing people hyped up the reunion of the island team and the Oceanic '05 just to have it cut off before anyone was really reunited, not just Kate and Sawyer.

It was sweet to see Kate smile. She's been through a lot, and I think has been in a dark place with whatever happened that took Aaron from her, so it was nice to see her feeling even just a little bit better from that upon seeing Sawyer. And while Sawyer was excited to see all three of his friends, when he looked at Kate I could just tell that it had all come rushing back. The nature of the Dharma Initiative or the lies he has told himself or whatever...Kate's face was like the key that unlocked what he had buried, and the bigger picture flooded back. Maybe it was just my television, but their music almost seemed too loud (still beautiful, but I mean volume-wise)--Josh Holloway's and Evangeline Lilly's faces were so expressive that they were doing almost all the work for it. Regardless, it felt like my television volume suddenly went up, as if to say, don't miss this...

It was a well done start of a scene, but I'm looking forward to the rest of it more in the next episode.

I'm in the camp that thinks that Sawyer won't abandon Juliet, and if Kate considers herself with Jack, she will probably not abandon him either. I definitely think their relationship will continue to be a slow development, and that is as it should be. I believe we will get to see them be friends again for awhile. Besides, it seems with all the Dharma drama there won't be much time for too much romance when there are island mysteries to be solved, people to rescue and protect.

A Saywer Sandwich is on the cards. If you catch my drift.

A Saywer Sandwich is on the cards. If you catch my drift.

nice!

While I like your interpretation, he is near sighted, so would actually be able to see better with them off. (Aside: No, I have no idea why he was driving with them on. Maybe he needed to read a map or something.)




Just to help clarify, as someone who has been both extremely near-sighted and now is far sighted (eye surgery and age) if Sawyer needs glasses to read small print he's far sighted... ie his distance vision is better than his up close vision... so he'd see better in this instance without his glasses...

Being nearsighted means you can't see beans at a distance...
squid

I'm in the camp that thinks that Sawyer won't abandon Juliet, and if Kate considers herself with Jack, she will probably not abandon him either. I definitely think their relationship will continue to be a slow development, and that is as it should be. I believe we will get to see them be friends again for awhile.

ITA, and this is exactly what I want/expect to see. I don't believe Kate considers herself "with Jack" at this particular moment ("we're on the same plane, Jack. That doesn't make us together."), so I don't see how that relationship could affect her reunion with, or feelings for, Sawyer. She's a free agent. However, Sawyer is not, and that will most certainly factor into their reunion. Their re-introduction and pending romance will be affected by Sawyer's loyalty to Juliet, which I believe is very strong at this point. He & Juliet have been together (both platonically and romantically) longer than he & Kate were together, so their bond, while different to Kate/Sawyer, will be very strong. They've been through a lot together, just as Kate and Jack have been, but ultimately, that sort of bond can never hinder "true love". Which, IMO, is how the writers have been presenting Sawyer & Kate to us, all along. The moment they saw each other again reaffirmed that.

Just to help clarify, as someone who has been both extremely near-sighted and now is far sighted (eye surgery and age) if Sawyer needs glasses to read small print he's far sighted... ie his distance vision is better than his up close vision... so he'd see better in this instance without his glasses...

Being nearsighted means you can't see beans at a distance...
squid

You're completely right--I fixed it in my original post. When I'm tired I type things my hands don't mean. I'm actually far sighted myself, so I'm not sure where that came from.

[Anyway, about the scene--it's clearly cut off midway through. I wouldn't really even call it a reunion, more like the precursor to a reunion. It was really disappointing the way the marketing people hyped up the reunion of the island team and the Oceanic '05 just to have it cut off before anyone was really reunited, not just Kate and Sawyer.


I think they just wanted to turn on people for the episode.
Anyway,i'm super excited to see their reunion. I'm looking forward to see the Sawyer\Hurley and Kate\Sawyer one :heart:!. I feel it will be a lot of awakard between Skate at first.

I think they just wanted to turn on people for the episode.
Anyway,i'm super excited to see their reunion. I'm looking forward to see the Sawyer\Hurley and Kate\Sawyer one :heart:!. I feel it will be a lot of awakard between Skate at first.

The initial moment was, IMO, spot-on perfect. Any good writing team knows how to leave the audience salivating for more, and that's exactly what they did with the end scene of 'LaFleur'!

I agree alec, Skate are going to be very awkward for awhile. They've both been through life-altering experiences, they've both grown and changed...nevermind the fact that Sawyer has some 'splaining about Juliet to do! ;)

I don't expect them to break up Sawyer & Juliet anytime soon...not even this season. And I think they're very fortunate that the pairing works well and are pleasant together; it will provide the necessary Skate angst until it's time for Sawyer & Kate to be together again, closer to the end of the series.

ETA: wanted to address KNJ's question from the 'Sawyer and Juliet' thread:
I'm just confused as to why people who like James would want him with Kate. It would seem clear above all things that Kate has treated him like crap when he has gone out of his way to chase her.
I don't think Kate ever treated him like crap...she simply had committment issues that confused and scared her, caused her to act irrationally at times, and therefore, confused Sawyer. Their miscommunications, IMO, were all due to their own personal issues: Kate with her desire to be/have something "good" and seeing Sawyer as the bad boy; Sawyer with his issues of self-loathing, feeling he deserved to be hated.

I don't think there is any doubt left as to the writers' intentions for Skate. These two characters are the only romantic pairing on the show who have offered to die for one another. Kate informed Pickett that she would do anything he wanted, if he would spare Sawyer. Sawyer knelt in the mud, ready to take a bullet to ensure her safety. Kate charged Pickett's loaded, cocked and aimed gun, throwing herself at Sawyer in order to prevent him being shot. They are the only two who were developed from scratch and brought along slowly, naturally, with all of their significant "firsts" illustrated on screen, in detail, so that the audience could properly invest in them.

So as I said above, IMO, Kate did not treat him like crap. Though I can see where some would consider that, at times. The writers have made mistakes with her character (see: 'Eggtown'), at times making her seem cold, uncaring, fickle, and innately selfish...but I don't believe any of that of her nature, at its core. We've seen her be alternately loving, protecting, infuriatingly stubborn, condescending, playfully flirtatious and wishy-washy, regarding her feelings towards Sawyer, but all of that was due to her confusion, her attempts to fight the fact that she was falling in love with him, and her committment issues - - her desire to run versus her desire to stay put, her desire for a "good man" versus her desire for Sawyer.

Now that they are back together on the Island, they are very different people. Sawyer has become a respected leader. He's in a caring, genuine relationship with another woman. Kate learned to put another life before her own when she took charge of Aaron. She finally stopped running and put down roots in order to create a stable foundation for her son. She's soon going to be faced with the proposition of getting to know James - - who is a good man, worthy of her love, and the only man who has ever loved her unconditionally. She has never had to beg for his trust, he has always been aware of her capabilities and competence, and in spite of their angsty issues, they've always been written as sympatico.

:twocents:

[quote] don't expect them to break up Sawyer & Juliet anytime soon...not even this season. And I think they're very fortunate that the pairing works well and are pleasant together; it will provide the necessary Skate angst until it's time for Sawyer & Kate to be together again, closer to the end of the series.[\quote]

think that their "romance" will last until episode 11 or 12. To the "promise" episode. I think that will be the turning point in the triangle\quderangle. I don't belive Sawyer ever thought that little thing he said to her, she keep it up for 3 years .

Kate's just lost Aaron in some way. That's a huge devastating loss to be recovering from. Not to mention the depression sex which didn't help either.

I didn't expect S/K to be all bouncing around with joy or doing something hollywood trite. The two of them have been throught so much while apart. They've changed as people. It brings an interesting dynamic into play whether neither knows if the other is the same person they remembered.

The subtle play of emotions running over their faces while the music (very unsubtly) swelled and the camera focused on them was just right for two people who are meeting for the first time again, not knowing how they really feel or where they stand, and with Juliet and Aaron on their minds too.

Not to mention the depression sex which didn't help either.



so, you think that she's emotionally withdrawn and upset regarding the night before to have to "recover" from it. :roflmao:

I don't want to go off topic, just that Kate wasn't exactly comforted or in a better frame of mind when getting on the plane. So I don't know why people were expecting her to be effusively running into anyone's arms, let alone Sawyer's. She did just lose her son. ;)
It would have been cheesy as heck to have them grinning at each other like loons or running into each others arms like they had for DesPenny, considering the circumstances. The episode had already used up its cheese quota by then anyways. :biggrin:

i do agree with you that the last thing on kate's mind is romance. i think she will find comfort in seeing sawyer since he really is the only good thing about the island, for her.

I think she may tell Sawyer what happend with Aaron.

The initial moment was, IMO, spot-on perfect. Any good writing team knows how to leave the audience salivating for more, and that's exactly what they did with the end scene of 'LaFleur'!
Absolutely.

I don't expect them to break up Sawyer & Juliet anytime soon...not even this season. And I think they're very fortunate that the pairing works well and are pleasant together; it will provide the necessary Skate angst until it's time for Sawyer & Kate to be together again, closer to the end of the series.
*sigh*...Juliet.

While the last thing I want is to see her hurt, I don't think they created and developed this character with the intent of hooking her up with Sawyer in the end. Skate needs an obstacle, and unfortunately, she appears to be it right now. I concur that it will help provide the necessary angst until it's time for Sawyer and Kate to be together again. It just comes with a bittersweet feeling attached.

I think she may tell Sawyer what happend with Aaron.
I'm really looking forward to their intimate discussions. Time for Chapter 2 in the ongoing story of Kate and Sawyer.

*sigh*...Juliet.

While the last thing I want is to see her hurt, I don't think they created and developed this character with the intent of hooking her up with Sawyer in the end. Skate needs an obstacle, and unfortunately, she appears to be it right now. I concur that it will help provide the necessary angst until it's time for Sawyer and Kate to be together again. It just comes with a bittersweet feeling attached.
The writers have made it very obvious that there is no intent for anyone other than Sawyer/Kate to be standing together in the end, when the dust settles. Providing they both survive, of course. :eek2:

You nailed it James, it will be very bittersweet, because personally, I love the character of Juliet more than I ever even liked the character of Kate, and all along, all I've ever wanted for her is to be reunited with her sister. I enjoy her new romance with Sawyer, but I can't be as invested in it as I am in Skate, simply because I haven't been given any reason to by the storytellers. There was no upswing of their romantic feelings for each other; we were simply plopped down into the middle of it and told "here you go, they're together & happy now", and 5 minutes later we were told "oh look!!, Kate's back and Sawyer may not be quite over her yet!"

Skate angst has traditionally been (largely) from Kate's side of their relationship...so it's actually going to be refreshing to watch them do a little role-reversal!

I'm really looking forward to their intimate discussions. Time for Chapter 2 in the ongoing story of Kate and Sawyer.

With all the changing & growing these two have done, those discussions are gonna be DELICIOUS! :drool:

Skate angst has traditionally been (largely) from Kate's side of their relationship...so it's actually going to be refreshing to watch them do a little role-reversal

Well not olnly the angst.. She started the all their, intimate encounters that we saw on the show. And the woman it seems that 3 years off island haven't got any real satisfcation in that department :eek2:. So i fully expect, she will not resist to at least kiss Sawyer once this season.

I love the character of Juliet more than I ever even liked the character of Kate, and all along, all I've ever wanted for her is to be reunited with her sister

I like Juliet, but i love Kate. Even if Skate don't end up together, i hope Kate will get her happy ending.

I don't want to show any disrespect to any of you because of the name of the thread. this is an ode to kate and sawyer, there is no disputing that. some feel that the reunion was lukewarm and not enough information to make a real look into what it really means, and some think that it was epic. that's the dispute, i know. but i cannot get by this comment:


The writers have made it very obvious that there is no intent for anyone other than Sawyer/Kate to be standing together in the end





i'm not just saying this because i'm for the other ship, but i think that the writers have not given anyone anything obvious, because we wouldn't be debating it back and forth. your opinion is that there is this great love beween the two, that she has this deep love for him. you think that eggtown was a poor perception of kate. THAT was kate. she walked away from him blatantly. and in the finale, when she saw him again, she could have apologized if there was this great love between them. from the operation scene through the moment she approaced jack when she first saw him at the helicopter, she had only eyes and thoughts of jack. if she has this great love for sawyer, what made her turn away from him? so she's back. did she come back for sawyer because of this great love for him, or was she threatened and bribed and forced to return to the island. did she look fresh, happy and excited when she got out of the van? i can't wait to see next week's episode and see how she brightens up and lookes enthusiastic because she's back on the island with sawyer.

i'm sorry, icekat. i don't see where the writers have made it obvious. i think they have enjoyed, thoroughly, jerking each ship around, back and forth. i think there's a reason why kate turned on a dime in eggtown. they said in sky one interview that as soon as they saw the numbers after the pilot, they had to hurry quick make the rest of the story so that they knew where it all was going. they laid out the last three season with zeal that they knew exactly how long the show was going to last and that they had a finish date. they have been wrapping the story up knowing exactly what they're doing for the 4th, 5th and finale season.

Well not olnly the angst.. She started the all their, intimate encounters that we saw on the show. And the woman it seems that 3 years off island haven't got any real satisfcation in that department :eek2:. So i fully expect, she will not resist to at least kiss Sawyer once this season.



I like Juliet, but i love Kate. Even if Skate don't end up together, i hope Kate will get her happy ending.


That's well put.. I have a sick feeling though...epecially if they're really mirroring that triangle of Horace, Paul and Amy.

I hope for the same thing either way Alec. Although, they did say it would eventually have a bittersweet ending all around.

Anyone feeling bittersweet yet? :rolleyes:

some feel that the reunion was lukewarm and not enough information to make a real look into what it really means, and some think that it was epic.
It was truncated. On purpose. The writer's objective is always to "leave 'em wanting more", and that's how that moment was scripted, as they clapped eyes on each other for the first time in three years. And I can't imagine that anyone expected for Kate to hurtle out of the van and throw herself into Sawyer's arms, smothering him with kisses.


i'm sorry, icekat. i don't see where the writers have made it obvious.
Which is perfectly fine. However, I see it the other way. And yes, I do see Skate as obvious, if complicated, and the intended endgame romance, provided they both survive. Could the writers pull another of their beloved "gotcha!" moments in the homestretch, leave Sawyer with Juliet (after about 5 minutes and a WTF?! reveal) and have Kate patch up her shambles with Jack (after all the ugliness and darkness and lies that destroyed them)? Of course they could. But IMO, it would be a horrible injustice to the relationship that they have carefully built and positioned for the past 5 seasons between Sawyer and Kate.

Every Skate moment has been crafted with care, loaded with emotional elements, and connections between them two of them that scream 'OTP' - from both of them having "felt something" during their first kiss (as described in the 'Confidence Man' script), to their sweet bonding moments (playing I Never over drinks, frolicking at the waterfall, Kate seeking out his company, offering to cut his hair, reading to him, digging for clams together, etc, etc), to the fact that they're connected in their past lives (Sawyer meeting Diane, Kate meeting Cassidy), to Kate's dogged determination to nurse him back to health, to her explanation as to why she had been fighting her feelings for him, to them sharing each others' confrontations with their pasts (Kate's horse and Sawyer's boar), to Sawyer's struggles with his own self-loathing (and Kate's recognition of those struggles), to the moment when they finally stopped resisting and made love, to Sawyer's insecurities (fueled by Ben, and Kate's relationship w/Jack) rearing their ugly head, to Kate's commitment issues, tendency to run, and desire for innate "goodness" in her life, to their tragic/heroic separation which put them in the position of being apart for years, through space and time itself, both thinking the other lost to them forever, and attempting to move on with their lives without each other. Their entire story is nothing short of epic.

That, IMO, is how a writing staff conceptualizes and delivers a romantic pairing that they want the audience to recognize as "it"...their primary romance. Anything that is thrown together or revealed as a "gotcha!"/WTF! moment (as Sawyer and Kate's other romances both were), introduced as already in-progress with no development, and then immediately unraveled with angst due to their past loves - - well, I just can't take a pairing like that too seriously, long-term. :twocents:

Even though I think Evangeline Lily is one of the hottest women on the planet, I just can't stand Kate. She doesn't deserve Sawyer. Never has. She's a bounder. She's the type of girl you date when your young and you don't know any better. Juliet is the type of woman you date when you've matured as a person and are tired of all the games.

Kate = silly girl
Juliet = woman

However, I see it the other way. And yes, I do see Skate as obvious


fair enough! ;)

Even though I think Evangeline Lily is one of the hottest women on the planet, I just can't stand Kate. She doesn't deserve Sawyer. Never has. She's a bounder. She's the type of girl you date when your young and you don't know any better. Juliet is the type of woman you date when you've matured as a person and are tired of all the games.

Kate = silly girl
Juliet = woman

I think Kate was that "silly girl". But after all the development we've seen, and her life with Aaron, I'm very optimistic that we're going to see a much more mature, much less wishy-washy Kate, in the homestretch of the series. I don't expect her to reunite with Sawyer, romantically, until the last season. And I don't expect her to reunite with Jack again, ever. The :censored: triangle is gasping its final breaths! ;)

Welcome to Skate 101. Please be seated.

And I can't imagine that anyone expected for Kate to hurtle out of the van and throw herself into Sawyer's arms
This is an example of why Kate and Sawyer have always had the more interestingly written relationship. Unlike a certain scene in "The Moth," with Skate we have a romance that leaves more to the imagination.

Every Skate moment has been crafted with care, loaded with emotional elements, and connections between them two of them that scream 'OTP' - from both of them having "felt something" during their first kiss (as described in the 'Confidence Man' script), to their sweet bonding moments (playing I Never over drinks, frolicking at the waterfall, Kate seeking out his company, offering to cut his hair, reading to him, digging for clams together, etc, etc), to the fact that they're connected in their past lives (Sawyer meeting Diane, Kate meeting Cassidy), to Kate's dogged determination to nurse him back to health, to her explanation as to why she had been fighting her feelings for him, to them sharing each others' confrontations with their pasts (Kate's horse and Sawyer's boar), to Sawyer's struggles with his own self-loathing (and Kate's recognition of those struggles), to the moment when they finally stopped resisting and made love, to Sawyer's insecurities (fueled by Ben, and Kate's relationship w/Jack) rearing their ugly head, to Kate's commitment issues, tendency to run, and desire for innate "goodness" in her life, to their tragic/heroic separation which put them in the position of being apart for years, through space and time itself, both thinking the other lost to them forever, and attempting to move on with their lives without each other. Their entire story is nothing short of epic.
These are examples of why we call them the One True Pairing.

BTW -- Professor IceKat, you rock.

These are examples of why we call them the One True Pairing.
They're also the reason that Skate was separated the way they were. Darlton have told us before, they consider separated couples, with the prospect of being reunited, to be very romantic. Why do we suppose that Jin/Sun and Des/Penny were also two of the couples that they've written into the story? We saw how amazing and emotional Des/Penny's reunion was. Jin/Sun's look to be pretty amazing as well, when it happens. And Sawyer/Kate's was framed beautifully, with their song playing in the background.

Kate was never separated from Jack, Sawyer was never separated from Juliet, and where's the anticipation for reunion, or the angst to overcome, in that? :shrug:

BTW -- Professor IceKat, you rock.
Oh honey...you have no idea... :naughty:

It was truncated. On purpose. The writer's objective is always to "leave 'em wanting more", and that's how that moment was scripted, as they clapped eyes on each other for the first time in three years. And I can't imagine that anyone expected for Kate to hurtle out of the van and throw herself into Sawyer's arms, smothering him with kisses.


Which is perfectly fine. However, I see it the other way. And yes, I do see Skate as obvious, if complicated, and the intended endgame romance, provided they both survive. Could the writers pull another of their beloved "gotcha!" moments in the homestretch, leave Sawyer with Juliet (after about 5 minutes and a WTF?! reveal) and have Kate patch up her shambles with Jack (after all the ugliness and darkness and lies that destroyed them)? Of course they could. But IMO, it would be a horrible injustice to the relationship that they have carefully built and positioned for the past 5 seasons between Sawyer and Kate.

Every Skate moment has been crafted with care, loaded with emotional elements, and connections between them two of them that scream 'OTP' - from both of them having "felt something" during their first kiss (as described in the 'Confidence Man' script), to their sweet bonding moments (playing I Never over drinks, frolicking at the waterfall, Kate seeking out his company, offering to cut his hair, reading to him, digging for clams together, etc, etc), to the fact that they're connected in their past lives (Sawyer meeting Diane, Kate meeting Cassidy), to Kate's dogged determination to nurse him back to health, to her explanation as to why she had been fighting her feelings for him, to them sharing each others' confrontations with their pasts (Kate's horse and Sawyer's boar), to Sawyer's struggles with his own self-loathing (and Kate's recognition of those struggles), to the moment when they finally stopped resisting and made love, to Sawyer's insecurities (fueled by Ben, and Kate's relationship w/Jack) rearing their ugly head, to Kate's commitment issues, tendency to run, and desire for innate "goodness" in her life, to their tragic/heroic separation which put them in the position of being apart for years, through space and time itself, both thinking the other lost to them forever, and attempting to move on with their lives without each other. Their entire story is nothing short of epic.

That, IMO, is how a writing staff conceptualizes and delivers a romantic pairing that they want the audience to recognize as "it"...their primary romance. Anything that is thrown together or revealed as a "gotcha!"/WTF! moment (as Sawyer and Kate's other romances both were), introduced as already in-progress with no development, and then immediately unraveled with angst due to their past loves - - well, I just can't take a pairing like that too seriously, long-term. :twocents:


Wow Icekat55!!! I'm new around here but your posts for the SKATE ship have me practically convinced! You put a lot of thought into why you think these two will end up together.:) I'm kinda new to the whole show and had no idea there was such a big discussion over who was going to end up with who. lol But I'm a sucker for a good love story for sure.

Wow Icekat55!!! I'm new around here but your posts for the SKATE ship have me practically convinced! You put a lot of thought into why you think these two will end up together.:)
She's great, isn't she? When you want an interesting opinion on Skate, or some cold hard facts, you can always seek out her posts.

::standing ovation:: Incredible post Kat. Skate has received such detailed development and it has been incredible to watch. Even the angst.
Sawyer seeing Kate's horse was so symbolic to me. It's interesting because I think this is only the second time multiple characters have seen one of the "ghosts" of the island. Locke and Jack have both seen Christian (I don't know what Claire is so I don't count her). Sawyer and Kate both saw that horse. I'm not sure if the boar was one though although it was obvious who it represented in Sawyer's eyes.

I think she may tell Sawyer what happend with Aaron.

Why? That's very petty and immature. Still her just running from being mature. If she was mature or any of this she would've acted like a responsible grown up and told Jack where his nephew was instead of having sex with him to distract him.

Skaters, remember: KATE AND SAWYER HAD SEX IN A RUN DOWN DISGUSTING FILTHY ANIMAL CAGE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! Where's the romance in that? What's so damn romantic about Sawyer telling them where a sick girl's medicine was unless Kate kissed him? She got into the kiss, duh. Sawyer's a good looking guy, neither of them had any *** for days, course they'll get into it.

As for whoever said that Kate and Sawyer will be the only people left at the end of the show...REALLY? Go watch the show again. I'd love this evidence that Kate and Sawyer are more important than the LEAD CHARACTER, Jack. Sawyer and Locke, for instance, are very important, but they are SUPPORTING CHARACTERS.

Bah, these shipper threads make my nose bleed :)

Skaters, remember: KATE AND SAWYER HAD SEX IN A RUN DOWN DISGUSTING FILTHY ANIMAL CAGE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! Where's the romance in that? What's so damn romantic about Sawyer telling them where a sick girl's medicine was unless Kate kissed him? She got into the kiss, duh. Sawyer's a good looking guy, neither of them had any *** for days, course they'll get into it.


Well that disgusting sex was 10000000000000000000 times number one ot two on the lists( still is) for bes love scene's ever. And that disguting kiss almost five years since aired, is still one of the most talked kisses ever :).

Well that disgusting sex was 10000000000000000000 times number one ot two on the lists( still is) for bes love scene's ever. And that disguting kiss almost five years since aired, is still one of the most talked kisses ever :).

I agree it was hot and sexy, but not romantic. Hell yeah, trapped in a cage with a hottie like that nuthing but pure lust...hell yeah, sounds great!
I was only dismissing it as a romantic scene.
Every time lost has had a "romantic" scene, someone dies: Sayid with Shannon, Hurley with Libby, etc.

Y'all Skaters can be fun ^_^

Plus, I'd like to add that their kiss on the helicopter was great.
This is some sort of really weird, unneeded peace offering haha.

Skaters, remember: KATE AND SAWYER HAD SEX IN A RUN DOWN DISGUSTING FILTHY ANIMAL CAGE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! Where's the romance in that?
First of all, I can 'hear' you just fine without the caps on, so relax. We're all civil here, or "fun" as you put it. Secondly, I agree to some extent with your first point. I didn't like the situation with Aaron either, but I also realise that we don't yet have the full story.

Regarding the cage, you've answered your own question. It didn't matter where they were. It didn't matter who was watching. For Kate and Sawyer, what mattered most in that moment was each other, and the stage that they both knew they'd reached.

That's (part of) what was romantic about it.

agree it was hot and sexy, but not romantic. Hell yeah, trapped in a cage with a hottie like that nuthing but pure lust...

Ummm.. i think, not. As Carlton said they consumated their love :).

shannon and sayid both saw walt.

I agree it was hot and sexy, but not romantic. Hell yeah, trapped in a cage with a hottie like that nuthing but pure lust...hell yeah, sounds great!
I was only dismissing it as a romantic scene.
Every time lost has had a "romantic" scene, someone dies: Sayid with Shannon, Hurley with Libby, etc.

Y'all Skaters can be fun ^_^

Plus, I'd like to add that their kiss on the helicopter was great.
This is some sort of really weird, unneeded peace offering haha.

We're fun? Don't we know it. But that sounds like you came in here to bait us which is against the rules, my romance starved friend.
You didn't think it was romantic, many many others do. If you need a bed full of roses with soft music playing in the background for it to be romantic then that's your preference.
The intimate and loving way they looked at each other in between kisses, the way he slowly caressed her as if savoring every moment, the way she closed her eyes as if doing the same. . .that was perfect to me. It was a great and memorable scene and so was the post-coital one after that which was the emotional icing on the cake.

shannon and sayid both saw walt.
Did he? I didn't recall. I thought only she saw him and he said he believed her.

when kate came to shannon's grave to apologize to sayid for not being there, she told him she just saw a horse in the jungle. she asked him if she was crazy. he said, "i just saw walt in the jungle. does that make me crazy"? kate's reaction was total shock and fear of what he just said.

Sawyer and Kate have a physical attraction and have had a few fleeting physical experiences together. Jack and Kate have had a more stronger connection from the very first episode. They connect emotionally and physically. Also, Sawyer and Juliet have been together for 3 years and they seem so perfect together. To have Sawyer leave Juliet for a woman he knew for a few months wouldn't make sense.

hey jatefan! welcome.

i agree with you!;)

Just because Sawyer and Kate have had sexual scenes on screen more than once doesn't mean that's all their relationship was about. It just means they have amazing chemistry and the writers enjoy actually showing that side of it too. Sometimes they're passionate [In the cages] and sometimes it's just the two of them connecting [Post-coital scene, Eggtown bed scene from my icon]

I'm actually quite taken back that anyone could believe that. Ice's post is really just perfect and I don't mean to repeat it but from the very beginning the connection between them wasn't just sexual. They understood one another in a way no one else did. The wonderful "I never" scene (In fact that whole episode) did an amazing job of showing that. Kate wouldn't run scared from simply feeling physically attracted to a man. It went beyond that which is why she was so conflicted in Season 2 when she commented on it while Sawyer was sick in bed.

I know some people like to dismiss the relationship as just physical but in my opinion, based on everything that we've been shown, that would be a mistake. Would Kate honestly be so torn between two men if one was just about the sex?

Welcome back to Skate 101. Please be seated.

Sawyer and Kate have a physical attraction and have had a few fleeting physical experiences together. Jack and Kate have had a more stronger connection from the very first episode. They connect emotionally and physically.
Sorry. Incomplete report.

Just because Sawyer and Kate have had sexual scenes on screen more than once doesn't mean that's all their relationship was about. It just means they have amazing chemistry and the writers enjoy actually showing that side of it too. Sometimes they're passionate [In the cages] and sometimes it's just the two of them connecting [Post-coital scene, Eggtown bed scene from my icon]

I'm actually quite taken back that anyone could believe that. Ice's post is really just perfect and I don't mean to repeat it but from the very beginning the connection between them wasn't just sexual. They understood one another in a way no one else did. The wonderful "I never" scene (In fact that whole episode) did an amazing job of showing that. Kate wouldn't run scared from simply feeling physically attracted to a man. It went beyond that which is why she was so conflicted in Season 2 when she commented on it while Sawyer was sick in bed.

I know some people like to dismiss the relationship as just physical but in my opinion, based on everything that we've been shown, that would be a mistake. Would Kate honestly be so torn between two men if one was just about the sex?
A well-written, thoroughly detailed paper. Congratulations.

Just because Sawyer and Kate have had sexual scenes on screen more than once doesn't mean that's all their relationship was about. It just means they have amazing chemistry and the writers enjoy actually showing that side of it too.

The fact that Sawyer and Kate have had sexual scenes on screen more than once is WHY they're Lost's central romantic storyline.

How many other hot, romantic, serious television pairings can you name that never had a love scene? (Or at least a teesy tinsy post-coital scene!) And I mean a real love scene...not one that was merely implied by the man waking up alone and then picking up a pair of I Never Wore Pink panties off the floor. ;)

And as we discussed elsewhere in this thread, Skate was the pairing given the monster separation through space & time (along with Sun/Jin, who are also canon & OTP). Did we learn nothing from Des/Penny? From Darlton's words about how they think separated couples are romantic? And how such a big deal was made of the moment where Sawyer and Kate saw each other again?

Lost's storytellers are not going to create this pairing from scratch, putting every minute of development under a microscope, building it with such careful emotion, giving them all the beautiful, fun, loving, angsty moments we've gotten and then inserting an epic separation into their story, only to reveal them as "merely lust" in the end. Because we've already been given evidence to the contrary.

Sawyer and Kate have offered to die for each other, for goodness sake. Don't we remember Pickett? How he had guns on both Sawyer and Kate and warned Sawyer "let go, or I do her too!", and Kate told Sawyer "don't you let go, you fight!"? How Sawyer refused to jeopardize Kate's life, and so knelt in the mud, telling her to close her eyes, and ready to take a bullet? How she screamed "I will do anything you want!" to Pickett? How, on the beach, she ran towards a loaded gun screaming "no!", hurtling at Sawyer as Pickett took aim, knowing that with a flick of his wrist, he could have shot her instead? How Sawyer threw himself off that chopper (after laying one helluva kiss on her!), knowing the fall might kill him, knowing he might drown, in order to ensure that she make it to safety?

There is no way that anyone can reasonably claim that Sawyer and Kate are based on lust or sexual chemistry alone. Not without me pointing, laughing, and refuting that claim with canon evidence, anyway. ;)
100%
Welcome back to Skate 101. Please be seated.


Sorry. Incomplete report.


A well-written, thoroughly detailed paper. Congratulations.

James, you are crackin' me RIGHT the hell up! :biglaugh:
100%
I agree it was hot and sexy, but not romantic. Hell yeah, trapped in a cage with a hottie like that nuthing but pure lust...hell yeah, sounds great!
I was only dismissing it as a romantic scene.

It wasn't necessarily supposed to be romantic. It was about two people who had been fighting falling in love with each other, finally tearing down all those walls between them and giving in. It was about them not just wanting, but needing to be together. It was supposed to be a desperate moment. I think the cages were very symbolic, because Sawyer and Kate were being fueled by their barest human instinct - animalistic desire.

But look at the surrounding moments before you start screaming "only" lust!! Because sure, some will try and claim it as "only" lust, but they'd be 100% wrong. Carlton Cuse said it best in the 'I Do' commentary, when he talked about how we watched Sawyer and Kate, for the first 3+ seasons of the show, falling in love, and then finally consummating their relationship...it was a beautiful moment for the characters. Sawyer had been trying to protect her, letting her believe they had a chance to escape the Island of Alcatraz. Kate's face spoke volumes as she realized that, and then kissed him. Take special note, then, of the wonder on both of their faces as they realize what's about to happen.

Nevermind the fact that, if them making love in the cages was meant to be seen as "only" lust, I don't think the post-coital scene would have been written. Hell, it wouldn't have been necessary at all. All we would have seen would be them pulling their clothes back on with their backs turned to each other, being awkward and wearing "we just made a HUGE mistake" looks on their faces. We wouldn't have seen them lying content in each others' arms, Kate snuggling and kissing Sawyer's chest, exchanging their "I love you"s and then falling asleep together. :shrug:

exchanging their "I love you"s and then falling asleep together. :shrug:


WHOA they exchanged I love yous? I musta missed that part. In the Lost I watch Sawyer asked Kate if she meant her earlier "I love him" induced by Pickett beating the tar out of him. This was followed by an awkward silence, which was then followed by Sawyer's face saving/wishful thinking "I love you too" But I'll rewatch it, maybe I'm mistaken :rolleyes:

WHOA they exchanged I love yous? I musta missed that part. In the Lost I watch Sawyer asked Kate if she meant her earlier "I love him" induced by Pickett beating the tar out of him. This was followed by an awkward silence, which was then followed by Sawyer's face saving/wishful thinking "I love you too" But I'll rewatch it, maybe I'm mistaken :rolleyes:

Nope, you're not mistaken. That's what happened in the Lost I watch too. He asked, and she gave him a kiss instead of an actual answer, because well...............nevermind, that about sums it up.;)

WHOA they exchanged I love yous? I musta missed that part. In the Lost I watch Sawyer asked Kate if she meant her earlier "I love him" induced by Pickett beating the tar out of him. This was followed by an awkward silence, which was then followed by Sawyer's face saving/wishful thinking "I love you too" But I'll rewatch it, maybe I'm mistaken :rolleyes:

"An awkward silence" in which Kate looked deeply into his eyes with a soft smile, kissed him deeply, looked back into his eyes with a steady gaze, dropped a kiss on his chest, and snuggled back down into his arms.

Which, silly me!, of course meant "no I don't love you, you repulse me, don't ever ask me that again." Which is why Sawyer responded with "I love you too", which Kate then corrected him with "no idiot, pay attention, I said I don't love you!"

Sorry. I must have misunderstood the entire scene. :drowsy:

Feel free to continue parading your obvious ship-bias on this thread, but please note that this is a thread about Sawyer & Kate's reunion, and everything building up to it. Your pointless rhetoric will be the fastest way to bring the mods charging in, Lock!button at the ready. Unless, of course, that is your intent.

Well, that's been known to happen too.

Well, that's been known to happen too.
Is that what you want.

Sawyer and Kate have a physical attraction and have had a few fleeting physical experiences together. Jack and Kate have had a more stronger connection from the very first episode. They connect emotionally and physically. Also, Sawyer and Juliet have been together for 3 years and they seem so perfect together. To have Sawyer leave Juliet for a woman he knew for a few months wouldn't make sense.
Posts like this are off topic in this thread. Kate and Sawyer's reunion is the topic. Instead of derailing another thread and getting it closed, can't we just discuss how we all feel about their reunion? Why drag Jack and Kate into it, there are threads to discuss their 'connection' and how strong or weak it is; depending on your POV. There are also a ton of Suliet threads for discussion of that five minute, one episode relationship.

Nice on topic post IceKat. I particularly agree with this:

And as we discussed elsewhere in this thread, Skate was the pairing given the monster separation through space & time (along with Sun/Jin, who are also canon & OTP). Did we learn nothing from Des/Penny? From Darlton's words about how they think separated couples are romantic? And how such a big deal was made of the moment where Sawyer and Kate saw each other again?
TPTB, themselves, have created the focus on this reunion. Made it a moment to wait for, to anticipate. IMO, they have pulled off the previously impossible, avoiding the Moonlighting Effect while re-setting Kate and Sawyer's romance with a new pairing --James and Kate.

Sorry. I must have misunderstood the entire scene. :drowsy:


No need for apologies **edited**

Kate snuggling and kissing Sawyer's chest, exchanging their "I love you"s and then falling asleep together. :shrug:

icekat!!!!!!!! come on.

you know i'm not a skater, but i will admit that i enjoy reading your posts from YOUR point of view. if i had the same opinions as you, i would be in ecstasy.

please, you need to go back to skate 101!!!! as freighter already posted, kate did not say i love you to sawyer. i, as a jater, watched it over and over just to make sure it didn't happen. it didn't happen.

the first time someone tells you that he loves you, you don't

look deeply into his eyes with a soft smile, kissed him deeply, looked back into his eyes with a steady gaze, dropped a kiss on his chest, and snuggled back down into his arms.

and expect him to take that as an i love you.

please don't start posting weird stuff that i can't read any longer. i have a lot more admiration of your opinions than the rest.

losttvfan summed it up.

If you're a Jater, a Sulieter, a "ConMamaer," or whatever you're shipping this week in the hope that Kate and Sawyer don't get back together, keep those thoughts in mind.

TPTB, themselves, have created the focus on this reunion. Made it a moment to wait for, to anticipate. IMO, they have pulled off the previously impossible, avoiding the Moonlighting Effect while re-setting Kate and Sawyer's romance with a new pairing --James and Kate.
Indeed. They did make this an anticipated reunion, and they handled it quite well. Now it's a matter of seeing what happens next.

losttvfan summed it up.

If you're a Jater, a Sulieter, a "ConMamaer," or whatever you're shipping this week in the hope that Kate and Sawyer don't get back together, keep those thoughts in mind.


Indeed. They did make this an anticipated reunion, and they handled it quite well. Now it's a matter of seeing what happens next.

And they didn't save it for Sweeps month for nothing. ;)

i think the reunion will be great. i cannot wait to see if she opens up about aaron, and i seriously want to know what the promise was, how she went about keeping it for him, and what transpired with cassidy.

i'm not "hoping" they won't get back together. as a matter of fact, i'm not worried about it at all.

. Now it's a matter of seeing what happens next.

We know what happen's next. Some great Skate angst, tension, until they don't fall in each other arms again :).

Anyway what is "ConMamer"?.

And they didn't save it for Sweeps month for nothing. ;)
No, I suppose not. :)

Anyway what is "ConMamer"?.
The Claire and Sawyer "thing."

No, I suppose not. :)


The Claire and Sawyer "thing."
Oh man. There is a, Sawyer and Claire ship too :rolleyes:?

We know what happen's next. Some great Skate angst, tension, until they don't fall in each other arms again :).

Anyway what is "ConMamer"?.


Exactly. Until they don't fall in each others arms again! Well said.

Exactly. Until they don't fall in each others arms again! Well said.
HAHA! Yeah, I caught that too - a little Freudian slip perhaps. Anyways, while the reunion may be hyped as much anticipated it does not predispose the audience as to the outcome. I suspect we'll get a better interpretation of that this coming Wednesday.

Again, I think anyone expecting S/K to be falling into each other's arms any time soon is not really understanding where the show is leading at present. JMO of course and I could be horrendously wrong. But these two people have not seen each other for 3 years. They've been or are in other serious relationships. They won't know how to act around each other, and they won't know how they feel about each other.

It gives us a fantastic new dynamic to watch. A fresh new level of tension and uncertainty to the mix. Darlton have said that they wanted to avoid the Moonlighting effect by putting them two together too soon, and I think they've managed admirably in continually changing things up in their relationship so it doesn't become stale, boring, stagnant.

As they themselves said, Jack and Kate have been through the wringer. It's been flogged to death. But these new circumstances, the years apart, the attempts to move on, the keeping of promises, or searching for 'as long as it takes' keeps Sawyer and Kate moving forward into new territory.

They are different people than they were before, and I think the writers are going to honor that, and take it much slower and subtler this time, reestablishing their emotional bond first before they try anything of an overt romantic physical nature. Think Skate's only built on sexual attraction, lust and raw physicality? Well, we'll just see about that...;) I have a feeling the writers are about to go all Jane Austen on our behinds.

Again, I think anyone expecting S/K to be falling into each other's arms any time soon is not really understanding where the show is leading at present. JMO of course and I could be horrendously wrong. But these two people have not seen each other for 3 years. They've been or are in other serious relationships. They won't know how to act around each other, and they won't know how they feel about each other.
There was a spectacular separation featuring a sacrifice and a promise. I expect that to be bookended by a reunion that is more subtle and the details of that promise.


It gives us a fantastic new dynamic to watch. A fresh new level of tension and uncertainty to the mix. Darlton have said that they wanted to avoid the Moonlighting effect by putting them two together too soon, and I think they've managed admirably in continually changing things up in their relationship so it doesn't become stale, boring, stagnant.
Kate's last view of Sawyer was as he made a heroic jump that allowed the O6 to leave the Island. She is going to come back to a man much changed by the three years they have been apart. A leader, supported by a woman who cares for him and who he cares for, surrounded by people who respect him. That will comes as a surprise (shock) to her. James will find a woman who has spent three years as a mother and finally got the doctor she so admired. That's enough to keep them apart a while longer.


As they themselves said, Jack and Kate have been through the wringer. It's been flogged to death. But these new circumstances, the years apart, the attempts to move on, the keeping of promises, or searching for 'as long as it takes' keeps Sawyer and Kate moving forward into new territory.
Exactly, it allows them a new dynamics to play with. They have been apart for years but this time instead of meeting as strangers they have a past behind them loaded with memories and passion.

They are different people than they were before, and I think the writers are going to honor that, and take it much slower and subtler this time, reestablishing their emotional bond first before they try anything of an overt romantic physical nature. Think Skate's only built on sexual attraction, lust and raw physicality? Well, we'll just see about that...;) I have a feeling the writers are about to go all Jane Austen on our behinds.
I share that feeling Zoriah! This time will be different, the stakes are higher, they have both grown and changed. They will be more careful, more gun shy. Sawyer and his Freckles never could keep their hands off each other; but before that chemistry sets fire to the screen again I expect a lot of longing looks and angsty interaction. It should be delicious to watch them deal with one another -- this time as James and Kate.

But look at the surrounding moments before you start screaming "only" lust!! Because sure, some will try and claim it as "only" lust, but they'd be 100% wrong. Carlton Cuse said it best in the 'I Do' commentary, when he talked about how we watched Sawyer and Kate, for the first 3+ seasons of the show, falling in love, and then finally consummating their relationship...it was a beautiful moment for the characters. Sawyer had been trying to protect her, letting her believe they had a chance to escape the Island of Alcatraz. Kate's face spoke volumes as she realized that, and then kissed him. Take special note, then, of the wonder on both of their faces as they realize what's about to happen.

Nevermind the fact that, if them making love in the cages was meant to be seen as "only" lust, I don't think the post-coital scene would have been written. Hell, it wouldn't have been necessary at all. All we would have seen would be them pulling their clothes back on with their backs turned to each other, being awkward and wearing "we just made a HUGE mistake" looks on their faces. We wouldn't have seen them lying content in each others' arms, Kate snuggling and kissing Sawyer's chest, exchanging their "I love you"s and then falling asleep together. :shrug:

Damn Ice, give me a moment to rest! I now have to give you yet another standing ovation :biggrin:

No Kate did not say I love you directly to Sawyer. Interesting that out of everything you said, this is the only thing that some people can pick on. Of course TPTB won't have her say something like that to either of these men. That will be saved till the very end when the triangle finally ends.
But the fact that he said I love you too speaks volumes. There was something in that long loving kiss and look full of emotion she gave him that he understood to mean that she yes, she did in fact love him. And he understands her more than anyone.
And note that she didn't contradict him. She simply continued to smile and snuggled closer to him.

Think Skate's only built on sexual attraction, lust and raw physicality? Well, we'll just see about that...;) I have a feeling the writers are about to go all Jane Austen on our behinds.

This statement cracked me up...:biglaugh:

While I've always found Kate and Sawyer's interactions very romantic, I would not be surprised at all that them having to stay away from each other for awhile won't ratchet up the Austen factor somewhat.

Anyway, as I said earlier, this was really just a precursor to a reunion. Next week, that is the reunion that I'm most interested in.

No need for apologies **edited**

freighter, thank you for the enlightenment about Skate's post-coital scene in 'I Do'...I had no idea that the writers would lie to us so convincingly! *wags finger at Carlton Cuse*

So I was hopeful that perhaps you could give us all your insight on the other points that were raised earlier in this thread. For example (and I'll number them point-by-point, as I genuinely am anxious for you to set me straight on the following):


What are your thoughts on the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only two characters to offer to die for each other, on more than one occasion? From the moment in the cage when Kate told Sawyer "don't you let go!", despite the fact that Pickett would kill them both if Sawyer didn't comply; the moment Sawyer knelt in the mud in order to ensure her life was spared; the moment where Kate charged towards Sawyer as Pickett leveled his gun, ready to fire?

How do you explain the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only couple on Lost that we've seen make love? (I mean TV-14 lovemaking, not Showtime soft-porn.) We saw them undressing each other in 'I Do' and 'Catch 22', saw a hot & heavy makeout session in 'Eggtown' with Kate waking Sawyer up with playful kisses all over his naked chest...so how is it that Kate hasn't even been seen in bed with another man?! (Well, except for one post-coital scene with her then-fiance, Kevin, but that was only to establish her persona as 'Monica'.)

Why do you suppose Sawyer and Kate were given the most complete relationship development, in terms of "getting to know you", over the course of the series? They were given the 'I Never' drinking game, they've been shown having playful moments "just because" (playing poker, swimming, digging for clams, reading magazines, Kate cutting Sawyer's hair). They've been given implicitly romantic moments, too - - Kate mashing up fruit to feed Sawyer and sitting at his bedside, nursing him "like a baby"; Sawyer giving her the mixed tape, or taking her into his arms to comfort her after Libby's death. How about the "you taste like strawberries", "you taste like fishbiscuits" flirting at the cages?

How do you view the moment where Kate admitted to having feelings for Sawyer ('What Kate Did') and how she explained why she had been fighting against her feelings?

And why do you think she felt it necessary to keep a sleepless vigil at his bedside, nursing him back to health with intimate caresses and making out with his forehead...holding on tight to him even after he had swallowed the pill?

What do you make of the fact that Sawyer and Kate were given a huge separation through time & space, both thinking the other possibly dead, and trying to move on with their lives 3 years on down the road?

RE: Kate letting her then-fiance walk away from her because she refused to give up Sawyer's secret in 'Something Nice Back Home' - - your interpretation?

That should do, for starters. And please keep in mind that this thread is dedicated to Sawyer & Kate's reunion, and their relationship leading up to that point. Mentions of, or comparisons to, any other potential ships aren't really needed. I'm sure I'll have a few more points I need clarification on soon, though...hope I can count on your insight! :)

That sound you hear is the Skate 101 bell ringing -- because IceKat just said "Class dismissed."

freighter, thank you for the enlightenment about Skate's post-coital scene in 'I Do'...I had no idea that the writers would lie to us so convincingly! *wags finger at Carlton Cuse*

So I was hopeful that perhaps you could give us all your insight on the other points that were raised earlier in this thread. For example (and I'll number them point-by-point, as I genuinely am anxious for you to set me straight on the following):


What are your thoughts on the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only two characters to offer to die for each other, on more than one occasion? From the moment in the cage when Kate told Sawyer "don't you let go!", despite the fact that Pickett would kill them both if Sawyer didn't comply; the moment Sawyer knelt in the mud in order to ensure her life was spared; the moment where Kate charged towards Sawyer as Pickett leveled his gun, ready to fire?
How do you explain the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only couple on Lost that we've seen make love? (I mean TV-14 lovemaking, not Showtime soft-porn.) We saw them undressing each other in 'I Do' and 'Catch 22', saw a hot & heavy makeout session in 'Eggtown' with Kate waking Sawyer up with playful kisses all over his naked chest...so how is it that Kate hasn't even been seen in bed with another man?! (Well, except for one post-coital scene with her then-fiance, Kevin, but that was only to establish her persona as 'Monica'.)
Why do you suppose Sawyer and Kate were given the most complete relationship development, in terms of "getting to know you", over the course of the series? They were given the 'I Never' drinking game, they've been shown having playful moments "just because" (playing poker, swimming, digging for clams, reading magazines, Kate cutting Sawyer's hair). They've been given implicitly romantic moments, too - - Kate mashing up fruit to feed Sawyer and sitting at his bedside, nursing him "like a baby"; Sawyer giving her the mixed tape, or taking her into his arms to comfort her after Libby's death. How about the "you taste like strawberries", "you taste like fishbiscuits" flirting at the cages?
How do you view the moment where Kate admitted to having feelings for Sawyer ('What Kate Did') and how she explained why she had been fighting against her feelings?
And why do you think she felt it necessary to keep a sleepless vigil at his bedside, nursing him back to health with intimate caresses and making out with his forehead...holding on tight to him even after he had swallowed the pill?
What do you make of the fact that Sawyer and Kate were given a huge separation through time & space, both thinking the other possibly dead, and trying to move on with their lives 3 years on down the road?
RE: Kate letting her then-fiance walk away from her because she refused to give up Sawyer's secret in 'Something Nice Back Home' - - your interpretation?


That should do, for starters. And please keep in mind that this thread is dedicated to Sawyer & Kate's reunion, and their relationship leading up to that point. Mentions of, or comparisons to, any other potential ships aren't really needed. I'm sure I'll have a few more points I need clarification on soon, though...hope I can count on your insight! :)

Wow!! That's a long post. **Edited**

As for answers to your questions I could take the time but I'm not on the board to write college papers**edited**

I will say this though. What do I make of all those things? **Edited**

**edited**

No Kate did not say I love you directly to Sawyer.


this is the only thing that some people can pick on.


the reason being is that it is not fact. everything else she has posted is her theory or has actually happened. we aren't disputing what has happened or her opinion. we are disputing what was said incorrectly. i don't think she's too worried about it.

As for answers to your questions I could take the time but I'm not on the board to write college papers **edited**

I will say this though. What do I make of all those things? **edited**

WOW. That's your response? Claiming that the other person is clueless when you either can't or won't debate the valid points made? **edited**

Once again you are off topic (Jack and Kate) and rude in the bargain. IceKat took the time to put together a very well written, thoughtful post. It would be nice for someone to address that and leave the smugness for real life.

Wow, that's a shame. **Edited**
But, I thank you for playing! :)

We can "play" from now to the end of the series, when I'll be proven correct, but we'll see...**Edited**

**Edited**

Nothing says right more than claiming that the writers and showrunners of the show are wrong about their own material. ;)

Hey, I could be wrong about some of my predictions for future episodes, I've even stated so. However, the fact that my interpretations (and many of my fellow posters) have been supported with confirmations by Darlton themselves as to their intentions and views on past canon scenes (in past episodes) should not be summarily dismissed or trivialized, IMO.

I do like the "Romancing the Cage" love theme that Sawyer and Kate have, though. It's gorgeous and quite recognizable. :biggrin:

Hey, I could be wrong about some of my predictions for future episodes, I've even stated so. However, the fact that my interpretations (and many of my fellow posters) have been supported with confirmations by Darlton themselves as to their intentions and views on past canon scenes (in past episodes) should not be summarily dismissed or trivialized, IMO.
Most definitely not...to do so would be to miss the point they were trying to impress upon the audience.

I do like the "Romancing the Cage" love theme that Sawyer and Kate have, though. It's gorgeous and quite recognizable. :biggrin:
Know what's even better? The fact that they now have two love themes! :wub:

So I was hopeful that perhaps you could give us all your insight on the other points that were raised earlier in this thread. For example (and I'll number them point-by-point, as I genuinely am anxious for you to set me straight on the following):


What are your thoughts on the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only two characters to offer to die for each other, on more than one occasion? From the moment in the cage when Kate told Sawyer "don't you let go!", despite the fact that Pickett would kill them both if Sawyer didn't comply; the moment Sawyer knelt in the mud in order to ensure her life was spared; the moment where Kate charged towards Sawyer as Pickett leveled his gun, ready to fire?
How do you explain the fact that Sawyer and Kate are the only couple on Lost that we've seen make love? (I mean TV-14 lovemaking, not Showtime soft-porn.) We saw them undressing each other in 'I Do' and 'Catch 22', saw a hot & heavy makeout session in 'Eggtown' with Kate waking Sawyer up with playful kisses all over his naked chest...so how is it that Kate hasn't even been seen in bed with another man?! (Well, except for one post-coital scene with her then-fiance, Kevin, but that was only to establish her persona as 'Monica'.)
Why do you suppose Sawyer and Kate were given the most complete relationship development, in terms of "getting to know you", over the course of the series? They were given the 'I Never' drinking game, they've been shown having playful moments "just because" (playing poker, swimming, digging for clams, reading magazines, Kate cutting Sawyer's hair). They've been given implicitly romantic moments, too - - Kate mashing up fruit to feed Sawyer and sitting at his bedside, nursing him "like a baby"; Sawyer giving her the mixed tape, or taking her into his arms to comfort her after Libby's death. How about the "you taste like strawberries", "you taste like fishbiscuits" flirting at the cages?
How do you view the moment where Kate admitted to having feelings for Sawyer ('What Kate Did') and how she explained why she had been fighting against her feelings?
And why do you think she felt it necessary to keep a sleepless vigil at his bedside, nursing him back to health with intimate caresses and making out with his forehead...holding on tight to him even after he had swallowed the pill?
What do you make of the fact that Sawyer and Kate were given a huge separation through time & space, both thinking the other possibly dead, and trying to move on with their lives 3 years on down the road?
RE: Kate letting her then-fiance walk away from her because she refused to give up Sawyer's secret in 'Something Nice Back Home' - - your interpretation?


That should do, for starters. And please keep in mind that this thread is dedicated to Sawyer & Kate's reunion, and their relationship leading up to that point. Mentions of, or comparisons to, any other potential ships aren't really needed. I'm sure I'll have a few more points I need clarification on soon, though...hope I can count on your insight! :)

First of all, I have to butt in...well...just because I love doing it...and since your closing paragraph is like tying someone's hand behind their back and throwing them into a boxing ring, I thought you might want to play too by clarifying a few things:

1. Do you think Sawyer being happy that Kate isn't pregnant is a true show of love? This is relevant because he seemed to want her to play house...just no have babies with her.
2. Since Sawyer's relationship with Juliet will be excused by the 'he thought he'd never see Kate again' theory, what would you call his fling with Ana Lucia hours before giving Kate that comforting hug?
3. Why did Kate choose Jack's group instead of joining her Romeo with Locke?
4. Why didn't Kate jump out of the helicopter? I don't think she had any real bond with Aaron at that point, so the 'she was holding a baby' theory won't do and as you stated she was ready to die for Sawyer previously, why not now?
5. Locke told Kate that everyone on the island was going to die. He gave her a chance to go back. She refused. The 'John Locke is crazy' theory won't do because the issue isn't Locke's sanity, the issue is Kate having a chance to be reunited with her 'fishbiscuit tasting' lover and her passing that up.

Just a few that came to mind, I'm sure i'll have more as soon as your done with these.

'Romancing the cage' does it for me though. It's just so purty! ;)

I love the fact that they had the reunion out in the open. Clear blue sky, wind in their hair, sun shining. It just reiterates to me how their emotional scenes are framed so beautifully, and not in a way that's dark, dreary, or mundane. Even their intimate scenes which did happen at night are generally often lit in a romantic way, with warm colour tones, or light from a fire etc.

We wouldn't have seen them lying content in each others' arms, Kate snuggling and kissing Sawyer's chest, exchanging their "I love you"s and then falling asleep together. :shrug:

Ei2 really don't waste your time. The whole thing started with the claim above ...there's only one question and it's a factual one...did Kate say I love you to Sawyer in the cage? The answer is no regardless of how much people want to talk about kisses, looks and everything else and regardless of how much they want to change the subject. Plain, simple factual question. Plain simple factual answer.

Nice points about the settings, Zoriah. I'm now wondering what their first words to each other are going to be, and how much of that discussion we'll get to watch. One thing I always wanted back in the 'old days' was for them to talk more about their relationship. Now that they've both done some extra maturing, perhaps we'll see that.

As a matter of fact, Kate hasn't said I love you to anyone in the quadrangle yet. But she said it about a gazillion times to Kevin. Guess that's true love then. ;)

But she sure has said, or should I say *screamed* "I love him!" repeatedly with regard to Sawyer. In season two she even talked having feelings for him which she was struggling with in WKD. I don't recall her ever mentioning such about Jack. EVER.

And her kissing Sawyer in I Do, looking deeply into his eyes and snuggling with him on his naked chest and inspiring him to say 'I love you too' back sure would seem to indicate her answer being a positive one. ;) I believe she made her choice then, but there's still more to come before they can truly be reunited and be a couple on the show again. It may not even happen until the last part of next season. But... I am confident that the writers will get them there eventually.

If this reunion is anything to go by, they are going to put it on a slow burn. Awkwardness and denial first, acceptance even that they may have missed their chance, but there's a season and a half to go. I'm trusting the writers on this one to make the journey a satisfying one.

My two cents on the topics being discussed:

I do think, despite not actually hearing her say it in that cage scene, that it was implied that Kate does love Sawyer (perhaps they wanted to leave jusssst enough wiggle-room ambiguity to please the other ship, as is often the case?). So, in my mind, yes she loved Sawyer.

I also think that, even though we never heard her say it, Kate has surely said I love you to Jack as well (during their SNBH days). Cuase you don't get engaged to someone and live with them like that without having said I love you (I mean, what's the normal length of time to say I love you in everyone's opinion? A few months? A year maximum? Certainly before engagement. So, in my mind, yes she loved Jack.

She loved them both. That doesn't negate anything about either relationship. And at this point in the series, neither couple are together and IMO Darlton could decide to go in either direction. Honestly, I personally have NO gut feeling about who, if either of them, Kate will end up with- could easily go either way in my eyes, as they've created a sort of "blank-slate" situation, in a way.

A couple minor things I thought I'd respond to: (I generally agree with a lot of the other points, that's why I'm must picking a couple random ones.)

Kate letting her then-fiance walk away from her because she refused to give up Sawyer's secret in 'Something Nice Back Home' - - your interpretation?

Hmm, I think the fact that she wouldn't tell him shows her loyalty to Sawyer, but I think it was more Jack's drinking and paranoia that drove her away, rather than the desire to keep the secret.

Do you think Sawyer being happy that Kate isn't pregnant is a true show of love? This is relevant because he seemed to want her to play house...just no have babies with her.

A show of love? No, but a sign of not loving her? No. I want a baby like a hole in the head right now (and I'm a girl). If my boyfriend approached the subject I'd be honest about that feeling, but it wouldn't mean I didn't love him. Sawyer wasn't obligated to want a child (or pretend that he did) just cause Kate did.

Very nicely said all around, Kate731.

A show of love? No, but a sign of not loving her? No. I want a baby like a hole in the head right now (and I'm a girl). If my boyfriend approached the subject I'd be honest about that feeling, but it wouldn't mean I didn't love him. Sawyer wasn't obligated to want a child (or pretend that he did) just cause Kate did.
Again, well-spoken.

As a matter of fact, Kate hasn't said I love you to anyone in the quadrangle yet. But she said it about a gazillion times to Kevin. Guess that's true love then. ;)

But she sure has said, or should I say *screamed* "I love him!" repeatedly with regard to Sawyer. In season two she even talked having feelings for him which she was struggling with in WKD. I don't recall her ever mentioning such about Jack. EVER.

And her kissing Sawyer in I Do, looking deeply into his eyes and snuggling with him on his naked chest and inspiring him to say 'I love you too' back sure would seem to indicate her answer being a positive one. ;) I believe she made her choice then, but there's still more to come before they can truly be reunited and be a couple on the show again. It may not even happen until the last part of next season. But... I am confident that the writers will get them there eventually.

If this reunion is anything to go by, they are going to put it on a slow burn. Awkwardness and denial first, acceptance even that they may have missed their chance, but there's a season and a half to go. I'm trusting the writers on this one to make the journey a satisfying one.

Exactly, Z. Kate has never said "I love you" out loud to anyone but Kevin. And that's why her actions in the cage, in answer to Sawyer's question, prove unequivocally that she DOES love Sawyer. She is telling him with her eyes, caresses and kisses "Yes. I love you."

Her words to Kevin were empty. We heard her say "I love you" to him multiple times, and in the end, those words meant nothing. She still drugged him, ruined his life and ran away.

Actions speak louder than words - - that is what TPTB were telling us when the wrote Kate's reaction to Sawyer's question. There was a reason that Kate's FB paralleled her on-Island relationship with Sawyer in that episode. And I don't think we can ignore the fact that they chose to name the episode 'I Do'. Sawyer was asking her 'do you love me'? Her wordless answer screamed 'I Do'.

Personally, I believe it's a no-brainer that we are meant to understand her answer, and Sawyer's response, to be their first exchange of "I love you"s. Sawyer sure thought she was acquiescing. He replied "I love you, too", and she didn't correct him. The question of Kate's choice was answered in 'I Do'...it is, has always been, and was always going to be, Sawyer. After she made her choice, her commitment issues were explored (just as TPTB told us they would be), and then they were epically separated, only to be brought back together again in the homestretch. I don't see how they could possibly make it any more obvious. :shrug:

IMO, they writers are not going to have Kate say those words to anyone until they're ready to reveal, without question, the end of the triangle. And I think that course is obviously set to bring her & Sawyer back together as the final romantic pairing. There's plenty in their way right now; they've got issues to work through, which will sustain them through the end of the series. There's no going back for Kate...she has to move forward. And with everything that she learned back in the real world, with all the maturity and insight she gained, she will now be able to apply that to her future. Which has lead her back to Sawyer. :wub:
100%
First of all, I have to butt in...well...just because I love doing it...and since your closing paragraph is like tying someone's hand behind their back and throwing them into a boxing ring, I thought you might want to play too by clarifying a few things:

That's not how we play.

I extended the challenge.

I posted the questions.

You first.

:)
100%
I love the fact that they had the reunion out in the open. Clear blue sky, wind in their hair, sun shining. It just reiterates to me how their emotional scenes are framed so beautifully, and not in a way that's dark, dreary, or mundane. Even their intimate scenes which did happen at night are generally often lit in a romantic way, with warm colour tones, or light from a fire etc.

It really is beautiful, how they film these two. Always in the open, brightly lit. Good ol' Darlton...they really do know how to take care of their OTP!

Ei2 really don't waste your time. The whole thing started with the claim above ...there's only one question and it's a factual one...did Kate say I love you to Sawyer in the cage? The answer is no regardless of how much people want to talk about kisses, looks and everything else and regardless of how much they want to change the subject. Plain, simple factual question. Plain simple factual answer.

I know...I try to stay away...but it's an itch I gotta scratch.


That's not how we play.

I extended the challenge.

I posted the questions.

You first.

:)


Like I said, It's kind of hard to answer your questions without being able to talk about the other relationships Ice...that is why I kept my questions to Sawyer and Kate. That said i'll take a crack:

1. When push came to shove, Kate didn't come through...She didn't jump out of the 'copter after him, she didn't want to come back to the island to save him and everyone else, and only a couple of island days after this incident she was quite happy to leave him and stay with Jack's group. There's a wonderful theory by Lady on the Kate thread about Kate and Ben that might explain the sacrifice exchange by the cages btw.

2. The same way you'd probably explain Sawyer's fling with Ana hours before giving Kate a hug. If it meant anything they would have built on it...not destroy it. In both cases we saw how it ended: The cage scene: I only told him that so he'd stop hitting you (or something along those lines), and the Othersville scene, well i'm sure Sawyer's teeth are still wrattling after that slap.

I'd just like to add the tent scene here since you conveniently forgot it.

3. Matter of opinion. Other people argue that Kate's other relationship was built just as strong if not stronger...this is the trap in your questions...you want a comment on this without being able to bring up the other relationship. The point is, I don't think anyone said that Kate and Sawyer didn't have any nice scenes together.

4. Having feelings for someone isn't being in love with someone. Again noone disagrees here. Kate has (or maybe had now - still to be determined) feelings for Sawyer!

5. She kept vigil with other characters too...I don't think it's a proof of love, it's proof of compassion on Kate's part.

6. Yet when she was given the option of going back to him and saving him, she didn't want it.

7. In Eggtown, after Sawyer confronted her for ping-ponging (bringing the other guy between them), she didn't have an ounce of regret on leaving him, however, when Kate and "her fiance's" relationship broke down (by Sawyer coming in between them), she was devastated. And here's an important point in all this...Kate didn't leave her fiance...her fiance left her.


IceKat...it's admirable how invested and dedicated you are to Kate and Sawyer, but the fact that you talk like everything is set in stone for them is where you're going wrong. This is the reason that you find Jaters coming into these threads and counteracting your points. You're stating opinion as if it was fact, and in some cases, as freighter pointed out, you're imagining things.

Your turn.
100%
Wow, if someone don't agree with yor opinion is imagining things :rolleyes:.

Of course not...but this is a public thread and people have a right to respond to certain points if they disagree. As long as things remain civil, you can't stop me or anyone else for that matter from disagreeing. Btw, I suggest you go back and read Freighter Hater's last post. IceKat stated something that just wasn't there.

. As long as things remain civil, you can't stop me or anyone else for that matter from disagreeing. Btw, I suggest you go back and read Freighter Hater's last post. IceKat stated something that just wasn't there.

Of cource how can i stop you :eek2:. I saw Icey's post and i completly agree with her.

Of cource how can i stop you :eek2:. I saw Icey's post and i completly agree with her.

Did Kate say to Sawyer 'I love you'? I'm not talking eye talk...body language, hand or smoke signals...i'm asking...did she say it?

Did Kate say to Sawyer 'I love you'? I'm not talking eye talk...body language, hand or smoke signals...i'm asking...did she say it?

Well according to Carlton Cuse and Evi she meaned that :biggrin:.

1. Do you think Sawyer being happy that Kate isn't pregnant is a true show of love? This is relevant because he seemed to want her to play house...just no have babies with her.
I agreed with Sawyer on this matter. Why would they have wanted Kate to be pregnant on that God-forsaken Island? Where people die on a regular basis? Where pregnant women don't survive? Where there are no hospitals for any potential emergencies?

To counter that: why do you suppose Kate was musing that maybe having a baby with Sawyer wouldn't have been "the worst thing in the world"? That particular comment seemed to suggest that she actually wanted his baby!

And why do you suppose we were shown exactly what Sawyer and Kate "would have done with a baby" when they were both involved in saving Aaron?

Just a coincidence that TPTB decided to throw in there?

2. Since Sawyer's relationship with Juliet will be excused by the 'he thought he'd never see Kate again' theory, what would you call his fling with Ana Lucia hours before giving Kate that comforting hug?
Bad writing (;)) and nothing but mere lust. I actually believe that Michelle Rodriguez was given that scene as a swan-song for her. She had voiced desire for Sawyer & AL to "hook up" (I personally think she just wanted to make out with Holloway. And I personally don't blame her!) Sawyer was under the impression that Jack and Kate were together at that point ('caught in a net'), and he was hurting. He had been trapped on that Island for 2 months with no sex. Ana was hot, and she was aggressive when she jumped him. 99.9% of all heterosexual males on the planet, sadly, wouldn't say no in that situation.

Ultimately, the scene was a means to an end; Ana got the gun, which led to her own death. It was never mentioned again because it was obviously not an important element in the Sawyer/Kate relationship. It would have been different if Sawyer & Kate had been together at that point...she would have seen it as a betrayal. However, they weren't together, and so it wasn't used to cause strife between them.

3. Why did Kate choose Jack's group instead of joining her Romeo with Locke?
Kate answered that herself. From 'The Economist':
SAWYER: Then what are you doing with Jack?
KATE: I went with Jack because I believe he can get us off this island.
That was not ship-related. She didn't go with Jack, or abandon Sawyer, because of her romantic entanglements.

4. Why didn't Kate jump out of the helicopter? I don't think she had any real bond with Aaron at that point, so the 'she was holding a baby' theory won't do and as you stated she was ready to die for Sawyer previously, why not now?
Why would Kate have jumped out of the helicopter? She might have been killed! She had a look of relief on her face when she saw Sawyer surface, and she believed that, once the chopper was re-fueled, they'd be going back to the Island for him. Sawyer jumped thinking he might not survive the fall or the swim back (which is why he told Kate his secret beforehand, as a "just in case I don't make it".) What good would it do either of them for Kate to jump after him, and either/both of them to perhaps drown (providing she survived the fall into the water) on the way back to the Island? :confused:

5. Locke told Kate that everyone on the island was going to die. He gave her a chance to go back. She refused. The 'John Locke is crazy' theory won't do because the issue isn't Locke's sanity, the issue is Kate having a chance to be reunited with her 'fishbiscuit tasting' lover and her passing that up.
Kate's main reason for not wanting to return to the Island is Aaron. From the ABC Official recap for 'Jeremy Bentham' (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=175782)"
In Los Angeles, Locke talks to Kate. She understands that everyone will die on the island, but she says no. Doesn't she care about them? Kate says she loves her son, and he loves her. She's never going back because she'll never leave Aaron.
Aside from that, she didn't believe Locke. From 'There's No Place Like Home':
KATE: Who do you think you are?! You call me over and over again for two days straight, stoned on your pills! And then you show up here with an obituary for Jeremy Bentham. (Sighs) When he came to me and I heard what he had to say, I knew he was crazy. But you... you believed him.
JACK: Yes.
KATE: Him, of all people.
Telling Jack "but you... you believed him", insinuated "whereas I did not believe him."

The Island was a nightmare for Kate, it was a dangerous place where people died, quite frequently. She was held captive, physically and mentally terrorized, and was running for her life on a regular basis. So my question is: why would she want to take Aaron back to that? No man - not Sawyer, not Jack - comes before her love and loyalty to her son.

Not to mention, Kate witnessed the Island's disappearance. She may well believe that everyone is lost forever, dead.

So in short: Kate's priority was Aaron. We have canon evidence that suggests she did not believe Locke, and perhaps did not believe that anyone left behind was still alive, even providing the Island could ever be found again.

1. When push came to shove, Kate didn't come through...She didn't jump out of the 'copter after him, she didn't want to come back to the island to save him and everyone else, and only a couple of island days after this incident she was quite happy to leave him and stay with Jack's group. There's a wonderful theory by Lady on the Kate thread about Kate and Ben that might explain the sacrifice exchange by the cages btw.
She did come through. Canon evidence tells us that. When Pickett told Sawyer "let go, or I do her, too", she shook her head at him, telling him "don't you let go! Don't even think about it Sawyer, you fight!" With Jason (I think that was his name?) holding a gun to her head, knowing that a nod from Pickett would equal a bullet in her own head, she told Sawyer not to stop fighting. She would have taken the bullet in that moment.

When Pickett had the gun trained on Sawyer on the beach, she dropped the rope and cautiously stepped towards them. When she heard him c.o.c.k. (why is that word ****d out??) the gun, she ran headlong towards Sawyer screaming "NO!" With the flick of his wrist, Pickett could have turned the gun on her and shot her in mid-stride. She knew that; she ran for Sawyer anyway.

So, sorry, but Kate did come through for Sawyer. Just because she wasn't killed in either of those instances didn't mean she couldn't have been, and didn't mean she wasn't fully aware of that fact.

2. The same way you'd probably explain Sawyer's fling with Ana hours before giving Kate a hug. If it meant anything they would have built on it...not destroy it. In both cases we saw how it ended: The cage scene: I only told him that so he'd stop hitting you (or something along those lines), and the Othersville scene, well i'm sure Sawyer's teeth are still wrattling after that slap.

I'd just like to add the tent scene here since you conveniently forgot it.
But the canon evidence does not change; Kate has never been seen in bed or making love with anyone than Sawyer. Yes they've had angst and misunderstandings between them...all canon television couples have to have that, it's what keeps the audience invested in them. They also have to have heat & passion in order to be convincing; Sawyer and Kate have been given that opportunity. They've had plenty of hot & heavy makeout sessions, lovemaking, playful kisses and caresses. Compared to...not much else for either of them?

3. Matter of opinion. Other people argue that Kate's other relationship was built just as strong if not stronger...this is the trap in your questions...you want a comment on this without being able to bring up the other relationship. The point is, I don't think anyone said that Kate and Sawyer didn't have any nice scenes together.
Again, sorry, but no. Every scene I listed is not a matter of opinion...they happened on-screen. Sawyer and Kate have been developed carefully over the series, canon evidence says so. They did swim together, dig for clams together, seek out each others' company "just because", Kate did cut his hair for him, she did nurse him back to health with loving whispers & touches, Sawyer did make her the mixed tape, they did share each others' symbolically redemptive moments (Kate's horse, Sawyer's boar)...etc, etc.

4. Having feelings for someone isn't being in love with someone. Again noone disagrees here. Kate has (or maybe had now - still to be determined) feelings for Sawyer!
Glad we agree on that, especially since she has voiced them out loud! :)

5. She kept vigil with other characters too...I don't think it's a proof of love, it's proof of compassion on Kate's part.
In keeping her bedside vigil with Sawyer, she drove herself to the point of exhaustion. From 'What Kate Did':
SAWYER: [whispering] Where is she?
JACK: You mean Kate. She's been watching over you for the past 24 hours straight. The only way I could get rid of her was to send her out to get some food for you.
KATE: You hungry? I'm just going to mash you up some fruit here. When you wake up you're going to get a kick out of me feeding you like a baby. I saw a horse. Yeah, that's what happens when you don't sleep.
Her devotion to seeing Sawyer get well was, IMO, considerable.

6. Yet when she was given the option of going back to him and saving him, she didn't want it.
See my other post re: Aaron.

And this does not negate the fact that it was Sawyer/Kate who were given an epic separation, not unlike Des/Penny and Sun/Jin....two other OTPs of Lost.

7. In Eggtown, after Sawyer confronted her of ping-ponging (bringing the other guy between them), she didn't have an ounce of regret on leaving him, however, when Kate and "her fiance's" relationship broke down (by Sawyer coming in between them), she was devastated. And here's an important point in all this...Kate didn't leave her fiance...her fiance left her.
I disagree, I think she had plenty of regret. She had just been musing on having Sawyer's baby; the argument prompted Sawyer to throw a hurtful comment in her face...and the truth hurts! So Kate lashed out, but did she have no regret? Her face seemed to suggest otherwise as she hesitated at the door (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x04/normal_4x04-cap740.jpg) and cast a look back at him (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x04/normal_4x04-cap743.jpg) .


IceKat...it's admirable how invested and dedicated you are to Kate and Sawyer, but the fact that you talk like everything is set in stone for them is where you're going wrong. This is the reason that you find Jaters coming into these threads and counteracting your points. You're stating opinion as if it was fact, and in some cases, as freighter pointed out, you're imagining things.

I suppose my certainty can come across as arrogance...but I really am just 100% certain that Skate are the endgame, and so I will continue to debate in that direction. I'm not saying that Kate doesn't have an important relationship with Jack, because we know she does. But Skate's relationship was set up to be torn apart & brought back together with an epic romantic storyline. Her relationship with Jack was much more truncated, clouded with darkness and lies, and explored over the course of a single episode. IMO, there is simply no comparison to how Skate have been written over 5+ seasons.
100%
Did Kate say to Sawyer 'I love you'? I'm not talking eye talk...body language, hand or smoke signals...i'm asking...did she say it?

Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Sawyer? No.

Did her actions show that she loved him? Yes.

Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Kevin? Yes.

Did her actions show that she loved him? No.

That is the parallel in 'I Do'. :)

I don't know how to divide a signle post into different parts so you're just gonna have to make do with this.

- I think that hasn't been asnwered yet...many people believe that Kate might have pregnancy issues. The fact that she was pregnant is what made her happy, not that she was pregnany by Sawyer. Kate's pregnancy issues is still to be determined.

We weren't shown what they would have done. We were shown that Sawyer was more fit than Miles to take care of the baby after Claire left...the only person that saved Aaron was Sawyer. All Kate did was give Aaron to Sun.

- Anything that doesn't support your predictions will be blamed for bad writing then. As for it not being important, Kate asked Sawyer, he chose not to answer (or maybe lied...don't remember).

- She did abandon him in the end.

- Of course she might have been killed. That's the point...she might have been killed by the cages too. As for her her relief when she she saw him surface...that throws all the 'she didn't want to go back to the island because she thought Sawyer was dead' theories into the burner.

- Again...the issue isn't Locke's sanity. The issue is being able to go back to your true love. But I guess we agree on something, Aaron is more important to Kate than Sawyer, even though he's not her biological son.

I don't think that there's canon evidence that she thought everyone was dead, after all Locke is there talking to her...and last time i checked he was supposed to be on the island. It also contradicts your your claim that she was relived to see him surface and alive.

Just realized you posted again...phew...you gotta give me time to catch up. :)

We weren't shown what they would have done. We were shown that Sawyer was more fit than Miles to take care of the baby after Claire left...the only person that saved Aaron was Sawyer. All Kate did was give Aaron to Sun.
"All Kate did was give Aaron to Sun"? :confused:

What about the fact that she spent the next 3+ years raising him as her own son, keeping him safe and loved?

- Of course she might have been killed. That's the point...she might have been killed by the cages too. As for her her relief when she she saw him surface...that throws all the 'she didn't want to go back to the island because she thought Sawyer was dead' theories into the burner.
They were miles off-shore when Sawyer jumped. Did Kate receive confirmation that he made it back to the Island? That's an awful long swim, even for a strong, healthy guy like Sawyer. Does she know that he survived when the Island disappeared?

We don't know whether or not Kate believed Sawyer to be alive or dead, but there are very strong arguments for both.

Just realized you posted again...phew...you gotta give me time to catch up. :)

Gotta be quick with me! I'm at work, and I'm not gonna actually...you know...work. Where's the fun in that? ;)

She did come through. Canon evidence tells us that. When Pickett told Sawyer "let go, or I do her, too", she shook her head at him, telling him "don't you let go! Don't even think about it Sawyer, you fight!" With Jason (I think that was his name?) holding a gun to her head, knowing that a nod from Pickett would equal a bullet in her own head, she told Sawyer not to stop fighting. She would have taken the bullet in that moment.

When Pickett had the gun trained on Sawyer on the beach, she dropped the rope and cautiously stepped towards them. When she heard him c.o.c.k. (why is that word ****d out??) the gun, she ran headlong towards Sawyer screaming "NO!" With the flick of his wrist, Pickett could have turned the gun on her and shot her in mid-stride. She knew that; she ran for Sawyer anyway.

So, sorry, but Kate did come through for Sawyer. Just because she wasn't killed in either of those instances didn't mean she couldn't have been, and didn't mean she wasn't fully aware of that fact.


But the canon evidence does not change; Kate has never been seen in bed or making love with anyone than Sawyer. Yes they've had angst and misunderstandings between them...all canon television couples have to have that, it's what keeps the audience invested in them. They also have to have heat & passion in order to be convincing; Sawyer and Kate have been given that opportunity. They've had plenty of hot & heavy makeout sessions, lovemaking, playful kisses and caresses. Compared to...not much else for either of them?


Again, sorry, but no. Every scene I listed is not a matter of opinion...they happened on-screen. Sawyer and Kate have been developed carefully over the series, canon evidence says so. They did swim together, dig for clams together, seek out each others' company "just because", Kate did cut his hair for him, she did nurse him back to health with loving whispers & touches, Sawyer did make her the mixed tape, they did share each others' symbolically redemptive moments (Kate's horse, Sawyer's boar)...etc, etc.


Glad we agree on that, especially since she has voiced them out loud! :)


In keeping her bedside vigil with Sawyer, she drove herself to the point of exhaustion. From 'What Kate Did':


Her devotion to seeing Sawyer get well was, IMO, considerable.


See my other post re: Aaron.

And this does not negate the fact that it was Sawyer/Kate who were given an epic separation, not unlike Des/Penny and Sun/Jin....two other OTPs of Lost.


I disagree, I think she had plenty of regret. She had just been musing on having Sawyer's baby; the argument prompted Sawyer to throw a hurtful comment in her face...and the truth hurts! So Kate lashed out, but did she have no regret? Her face seemed to suggest otherwise as she hesitated at the door (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x04/normal_4x04-cap740.jpg) and cast a look back at him (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x04/normal_4x04-cap743.jpg) .


I suppose my certainty can come across as arrogance...but I really am just 100% certain that Skate are the endgame, and so I will continue to debate in that direction. I'm not saying that Kate doesn't have an important relationship with Jack, because we know she does. But Skate's relationship was set up to be torn apart & brought back together with an epic romantic storyline. Her relationship with Jack was much more truncated, clouded with darkness and lies, and explored over the course of a single episode. IMO, there is simply no comparison to how Skate have been written over 5+ seasons.
100%


Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Sawyer? No.

Did her actions show that she loved him? Yes.

Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Kevin? Yes.

Did her actions show that she loved him? No.

That is the parallel in 'I Do'. :)

- Like I said I suggest you read the Kate and Ben theory in the Kate thread. When he jumped she didn't jump after him...she didn't come through.

- Cannon couples need to be seen in bed together in order for people to stay invested in a couple? Not your strongest stuff.

- I swim with my dog in the pool sometimes, and seek out my best friend's company...that doesn't mean i'm going to live happily ever after with them.

- Yeah i'm glad too.

- To the point of exhaustion? Too strong a word for any neutral tv viewer. she stayed by his bedside...that's about it...she didn't pass out...get a fever, or sweat.

- Since you call it devotion for sitting by his bedside...what do you call her not wanting to get back to the island to see him (And please don't bring Aaron into this - we're talking about her feelings for Sawyer)? Not very strong feelings in my opinion. If it was shown that she was torn, then that would be the end of this...she did not care...end of story.

- Actually it looked like a smirk to me. She had a 'how pitiful' look on her face that seemed to say there's more of where that slap came from. Guess it's a matter of opinion here.

Since you finally stated that she did not say I love you to Sawyer, then I guess we finally agree. As for her actions, that's a matter of interpretation and opinion. Guess we'll have to see.
100%
"All Kate did was give Aaron to Sun"? :confused:

What about the fact that she spent the next 3+ years raising him as her own son, keeping him safe and loved?


They were miles off-shore when Sawyer jumped. Did Kate receive confirmation that he made it back to the Island? That's an awful long swim, even for a strong, healthy guy like Sawyer. Does she know that he survived when the Island disappeared?

We don't know whether or not Kate believed Sawyer to be alive or dead, but there are very strong arguments for both.



Gotta be quick with me! I'm at work, and I'm not gonna actually...you know...work. Where's the fun in that? ;)

- She spent those years with Jack...not with Sawyer.

- Your contradicting your self...or your rounding off the corners...however, Locke going off island gave the O6ers conformation that everyone survived. They may call his everyone on the island is going to die story insane...but it doesn't take away from the fact that they have conformation of their survival. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when he says everyone, we the viewers are supposed to assume including Sawyer, just like you assumed Kate said I love you to Sawyer with her actions.

I think everyone is supposed to be at work.

- Like I said I suggest you read the Kate and Ben theory in the Kate thread. When he jumped she didn't jump after him...she didn't come through.
That is not the scene we were discussing. That moment was not an instance of Kate offering her life for Sawyer, it was Sawyer offering his for Kate. The moments I was speaking of happened when Kate twice challenged Pickett's gun.

See above where I addressed Kate jumping after Sawyer. There was no need for her to potentially kill herself by leaping out, if they were going to re-fuel the chopper and go back for Sawyer.
- Cannon couples need to be seen in bed together in order for people to stay invested in a couple? Not your strongest stuff.
Canon couples need romantic interactions, yes. Seeing them making love is part of that. Sawyer and Kate have had ample moments where the audience sees them expressing their physical love. These moments were filmed in bright settings with their faces lit...as opposed to darkness, with implied moments tossed in as an afterthought.

- I swim with my dog in the pool sometimes, and seek out my best friend's company...that doesn't mean i'm going to live happily ever after with them.
Sorry, but :biglaugh: That cracked me up!

- To the point of exhaustion? Too strong a word for any neutral tv viewer. she stayed by his bedside...that's about it...she didn't pass out...get a fever, or sweat.
Did you read the canon quotes I provided? Kate alluded to horsie hallucinations (which we know they weren't, but she thought they were): "Yeah. That's what happens when you don't sleep." Jack told Sawyer that Kate had been sitting at his side for 24 hours straight. I don't think "to the point of exhaustion" is a stretch, given the canon evidence we have from the episode itself.

- Since you call it devotion for sitting by his bedside...what do you call her not wanting to get back to the island to see him (And please don't bring Aaron into this - we're talking about her feelings for Sawyer)? Not very strong feelings in my opinion. If it was shown that she was torn, then that would be the end of this...she did not care...end of story.
I personally believe that we're going to see, in the very near future, what Kate's feelings really were about Sawyer potentially being alive and left behind. If, in her heart, she believed he was dead, I expect that will be revealed. But to this point, we have not seen her POV on the matter.

We know that there is an episode coming where she will visit Cassidy & Clementine, and the nature of Sawyer's secret will be revealed. I fully expect we'll see some of Kate's feelings on the matter at that point.

- Actually it looked like a smirk to me. She had a 'how pitiful' look on her face that seemed to say there's more of where that slap came from. Guess it's a matter of opinion here.
Yep, that's exactly what it is, a matter of opinion. :)

Since you finally stated that she did not say I love you to Sawyer, then I guess we finally agree. As for her actions, that's a matter of interpretation and opinion. Guess we'll have to see.
I think that, if you read my earlier posts, you will see that I never claimed Kate verbalized her love for Sawyer there. My exact words, IIRC, were that they "exchanged 'I love you's", and they did. Sawyer verbally, and Kate with her actions, which was the opposite of what she was shown to do with Kevin. This parallel was not included for no reason. Was it?


- She spent those years with Jack...not with Sawyer.
She spent much of those three years estranged from Jack while they were living in the same zip code, and physically separated from Sawyer by space & time.

- Your contradicting your self...or your rounding off the corners...however, Locke going off island gave the O6ers conformation that everyone survived. They may call his everyone on the island story insane...but it doesn't take away from the fact that they have conformation of their survival. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when he says everyone, we the viewers are supposed to assume including Sawyer, just like you assumed Kate said I love you to Sawyer with her actions.
I'm contradicting nothing. If Kate didn't believe Locke, she didn't believe him. Therefore, she does not have "confirmation of their survival", because she stated that she did not believe him. Locke can come trouncing in and tell her "Kate, guess what? The sky is yellow and the grass is purple and Sawyer isn't dead!!!", but that's not confirmation that his words are indisputably true.

Kate's priority was Aaron; she did not believe Locke. I don't see why it has to be any more difficult than that. It's nothing to do with Kate's desire to see Sawyer or Juliet or Rose or Bernard die horribly, back on the Island, just because she won't go back. We don't believe Kate is that heartless. It's just that she's not going to put anyone's safety ahead of Aaron's...especially not for some crackpot theory from some crackpot ol' guy that she doesn't even believe is telling the truth.

I think everyone is supposed to be at work.
It's a slow week. ;)

- Ladybird has a theory that's getting more and more interesting in the Kate thread or the general theories thread. Part of It discusses the cage scene. The other part of my statement is my interpretation of why she didn't come through in relation with your declaration that she was ready to die for him.

- Since you're implying Jate here, I'm sure there are a lot of scenes that Jaters can list of 'nice moments' in bright settings between Jack and Kate as well beginning from Season 1 Episode 1.

- :)

- Ok you got me...she was exhausted.

- Guess we'll have to wait.

- Agree

- I personally believe that she was in love with Kevin...but she had the Marshal to deal with. She left Kevin to protect him...just like she left Aaron.

- I don't know about 'several' but she did raise Aaron with Jack more than she did with Sawyer.

- That's not the point. The point is Locke was on-island when it disappeared. The O6ers thought everyone died. Locke going inland and meeting the o6ers proved otherwise.

Ei.....not too many want to read LBK's theories. sawyer doesn't fare well.

Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Sawyer? No.

Did her actions show that she loved him? Yes.

Did Kate say the words 'I love you' to Kevin? Yes.

Did her actions show that she loved him? No.

That is the parallel in 'I Do'. :lipsseal:
:biggrin: I don't think this parallel can be dismissed. In fact the title of the episode shouldn't be dismissed either.

The title they choose was "I Do" and in that episode we saw Monica take vows while on Island Kate made a choice. Damon and Carlton don't select titles randomly so; yes I believe Kate's non verbal response to Sawyer was that she loved him. Let's also remember that Kate said during the 'I Never' game with Sawyer that she had never had a one night stand. Kate doesn't take having sex with someone lightly and even Carlton said this about their first love making:

"It was great. I mean, you think about it, you know, in a show, in a television show, to basically go 55 hours before two characters who are in love with each other actually finally consummate and make love. It’s really amazing. And I think it was just as a starting point of the relationship, really kind of deepening it and existing in a different level. It was really a great scene."
That quote pretty definitively states that not only is Sawyer in love with Kate, but Kate is in love with him as well.

Given that Damon and Carlton wrote "I Do" and titled it that; I have to believe they knew the intent of that particular scene. If the intent was that these two characters, who are in love with each other, were shown finally making love to each other; why is it a stretch to believe that Kate's answer was yes she loves him -- even if she didn't say the words? Sawyer didn't crawl out on a limb all by himself; he clearly felt her response was positive by answering with 'I love you too'.

why is it a stretch to believe that Kate's answer was yes she loves him -- even if she didn't say the words? .


When Picket was beating Sawyer up, she said those three magical words. She later told Sawyer she only said them to stop Picket from hitting Sawyer. Anything she has said and done was due to the circumstances she was under. A while later, that is confirmed when even Sawyer confronts her with it and says 'I know that you did what you did because you thought I was a goner' (or something like that). She didn't interrupt him. It was only when he said that she was beating herself up about the Doc did she say that's not true.

When Picket was beating Sawyer up, she said those three magical words. She later told Sawyer she only said them to stop Picket from hitting Sawyer. Anything she has said and done was due to the circumstances she was under. A while later, that is confirmed when even Sawyer confronts her with it and says 'I know that you did what you did because you thought I was a goner' (or something like that). She didn't interrupt him. It was only when he said that she was beating herself up about the Doc did she say that's not true.

She told Sawyer she only said that to stop the beating because she was p*ssed at him. She had just asked him to tell her the truth for once, and he refused. He then brought up the 'I love you' confession and Kate bit back. The scene was crystal clear.

Sawyer told her he wasn't talking about the doc at the beginning of the other scene your talking about. The scene carried on and he told her he was talking about them. He went on to accuse her of pity sex and Kate looked at him in disbelief. I don't think I've ever seen Kate look so hurt. She even moves away from him and I don't blame her, Sawyer was way out of line. But that's Sawyer, he doesn't believe Kate could love him. This scene and the one that followed when Kate asked for a clean slate just adds to the evidence for me that Kate is in love with Sawyer.


I don't think this parallel can be dismissed. In fact the title of the episode shouldn't be dismissed either.

The title they choose was "I Do" and in that episode we saw Monica take vows while on Island Kate made a choice. Damon and Carlton don't select titles randomly so; yes I believe Kate's non verbal response to Sawyer was that she loved him. I completely agree. I absolutely love the poignancy.

What exactly is the anti-Skate crowd so desperately trying to prove here? What exactly is the ultimate point? That Kate never loved Sawyer? Sorry, but that isn't true, and I don't see why anyone would need to believe that in order to enjoy their own pairing.

To IceKat, losttvfan, et al -- brilliant points again.

Ei.....not too many want to read LBK's theories. sawyer doesn't fare well.

I read it but don't think it has any merit whatsoever. IMO, it's nonsense, but I wasn't saying anything merely to be polite.

well, i see that you found the quote from kristin that it wasn't true. and i'm sorry that you find it to be without merit, but

he WAS on a list that was put out by either ausiello or dark ufo. there are quotes all over the spoilers. i didn't make it up. the list included daniel, jin, ben, sawyer and miles. whether it was called major or majorish, he was on the list
.

actually, you could have just posted that you found a new spoiler that cancelled mine out.

well, i see that you found the quote from kristin that it wasn't true. and i'm sorry that you find it to be without merit, but

he WAS on a list that was put out by either ausiello or dark ufo. there are quotes all over the spoilers. i didn't make it up. the list included daniel, jin, ben, sawyer and miles. whether it was called major or majorish, he was on the list
.

actually, you could have just posted that you found a new spoiler that cancelled mine out.

Perhaps I misunderstood you as I thought you were referring to the whole theory... Ben, etc. That's what I was talking about. Sorry for the confusion. I'm well aware of the source for the one specific thing... no offence intended, I assure you.

She told Sawyer she only said that to stop the beating because she was p*ssed at him. She had just asked him to tell her the truth for once, and he refused. He then brought up the 'I love you' confession and Kate bit back. The scene was crystal clear.

Sawyer told her he wasn't talking about the doc at the beginning of the other scene your talking about.


My mistake...you're right I mixed the two scenes together...my bad. But let's make this simple since you're relating their talk to the entire premise of the episode:

This is from Lostpedia and not from my persepective:

(I Do):

Kate and Kevin on the phone:

KEVIN: Love you.

KATE: I love you, too.



Kate and the Marshal on the phone:

MARSHAL: What's his name? [Kate is silent] Does he know who you are?

KATE: Edward, please. I know you don't want to spend the rest of your life chasing me. Please, I love this guy. Just let me go.



Kate and Kevin at the dinner table

KEVIN: You know that honeymoon I've been promising you for 6 months? You are holding in your hand two tickets to Costa Rica. You got your passport ready, baby? [Kate smiles but looks distracted] Hey. What's wrong?

KATE: Nothing. I just love you so much.



Kate and Sawyer in the cage

SAWYER: Lemme ask you something, Freckles. When Blockhead was beating on me, and you said "I love you." That was just... to get him to stop, right?

[Kate is silent as Sawyer strokes her hair. She kisses him without a word, and then lays down on his chest.]

SAWYER: I love you, too.



We know she's able to say the words and I think it should have been easy considering the circumstances. She didn't.



(Stranger in a Strange land):

Should I walk beside you, or ten paces behind you? You've gotten so good at telling me what to do, I can't think for myself anymore.

SAWYER: Don't take it out on me because you feel guilty.

KATE: I don't feel guilty.

SAWYER: The hell you don't.

KATE: We had to leave Jack behind. I didn't have a choice.

SAWYER: I'm not talking about leaving Jack behind. I'm talking about you and me. I know you did it because you thought I was dead man. So don't beat yourself because the Doc's left behind.

KATE: I'm not beating myself up.

SAWYER: Of course you're not. So, now that we got that out of the way, let's go.



Long story short: 'yeah you're right about the guilt but no i'm not beating my self up regarding the Doc.'

What's so hard about this?

As for the title, it would mean everything you guys are saying regarding it and more, if she said those words back to Sawyer. Jack wasn't around...she wasn't going to hurt anyone's feelings if she said them. She didn't. So this is a matter of opinion and interpretation.

I read it but don't think it has any merit whatsoever. IMO, it's nonsense, but I wasn't saying anything merely to be polite.

I wasn't talking about the last part...that wasn't going to fly with this crowd. I was talking about the the overall theory of the possible connection between Ben and Kate. Ice was talking about Kate sacrificing herself for Sawyer. My point is that Kate knew Picket and his buddy weren't going to shoot her. She wasn't sacrificing herself she just didn't want Sawyer to get shot.

I wasn't talking about the last part...that wasn't going to fly with this crowd. I was talking about the the overall theory of the possible connection between Ben and Kate. Ice was talking about Kate sacrificing herself for Sawyer. My point is that Kate knew Picket and his buddy weren't going to shoot her. She wasn't sacrificing herself she just didn't want Sawyer to get shot.

I don't buy that. As I saw it, Pickett was acting completely on his own.. .out of grief and anger, not at all under Ben's orders. Sawyer was just the appointed scapegoat member of the team that killed his wife. I don't believe that Kate had any kind of free pass, nor did she act in any way as if she did. Witness that entire scene on the beach after they've fled from the cages when Pickett caught up to them. Luckily, Juliet came along and settled the matter by killing Pickett.

I don't buy that. As I saw it, Pickett was acting completely on his own.. .out of grief and anger, not at all under Ben's orders. Sawyer was just the appointed scapegoat member of the team that killed his wife. I don't believe that Kate had any kind of free pass, nor did she act in any way as if she did. Witness that entire scene on the beach after they've fled from the cages when Pickett caught up to them. Luckily, Juliet came along and settled the matter by killing Pickett.

Why not shoot Kate instead of Sawyer then? She meant more to Jack (he was at the operating table when Picket's wife died) than Sawyer did.

The beach scene fits in this too...she stood in front of Sawyer because Picket can't shoot her.

I don't believe that anyone has said Kate didn't love Kevin, after all she admitted having been in love and been married when she and Sawyer played "I Never":


SAWYER: Learn by example. I never kissed a man. Now you drink 'cause you've kissed man. Your turn.
KATE: I never implied that I've been to college when I never have.
[Sawyer drinks.]
SAWYER: I never been to Disneyland.
[Kate doesn't drink.]
SAWYER: Ah, that's just sad.
KATE: I never wore pink.
[Sawyer drinks.]
KATE: I knew it.
SAWYER: The '80's. I never voted democrat.
[Kate doesn't drink.]
KATE: I never voted.
[Sawyer drinks.]
SAWYER: I've never been in love.
KATE: You've never been in love?
SAWYER: I ain't drinking, am I?
[Kate drinks.]
KATE: I've never had a one night stand.
[Sawyer drinks.]
KATE: Bottoms up, sailor.
SAWYER: I've gotta drink for each one.
KATE: Your turn.
SAWYER: I've never been married.
[Kate drinks a small sip.]
KATE: It didn't last very long.
The point is not if she was in love with him but the fact that she married him under another name (which makes the marriage invalid), stuck with him only as long as she could handle playing Monica (she doesn't do Taco Night), didn't trust him with the truth (she told it, drugged him and ran), was willing to leave a mess behind (Kevin's life and reputation were in tatters) and never looked back.

Even in the "I Never" scene, when Kate says 'It didn't last very long' she hardly looks upset, sad or even nostalgic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9uuxwt4Wc4

She may have cared about or even loved Kevin but he doesn't seem to have left much of an impression on Kate or her life. After all, Kate didn't marry him, Monica did.

Why not shoot Kate instead of Sawyer then? She meant more to Jack (he was at the operating table when Picket's wife died) than Sawyer did.Pickett had no idea what Kate meant to Jack. He knew she meant something to Sawyer and visa versa hence his remark to Sawyer “If you got something to say to YOUR girl, best say it tonight”.

The beach scene fits in this too...she stood in front of Sawyer because Picket can't shoot her.What? Pickett actually threatened “To do her too” if Sawyer hadn’t quit fighting; so why would Pickett feel he couldn’t kill Kate? Hell he chased them across the Island as he and his buddies fired at them without any apparent regard to who their bullets hit.

What reason did Kate have to feel she would be safe stepping in front of Sawyer to protect him from being shot? Did I miss the bullet proof vest Pickett handed over as a going away gift?

I don't believe that anyone has said Kate didn't love Kevin, after all she admitted having been in love and been married when she and Sawyer played "I Never":

The point is not if she was in love with him but the fact that she married him under another name (which makes the marriage invalid), stuck with him only as long as she could handle playing Monica (she doesn't do Taco Night), didn't trust him with the truth (she told it, drugged him and ran), was willing to leave a mess behind (Kevin's life and reputation were in tatters) and never looked back.

Even in the "I Never" scene, when Kate says 'It didn't last very long' she hardly looks upset, sad or even nostalgic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9uuxwt4Wc4

She may have cared about or even loved Kevin but he doesn't seem to have left much of an impression on Kate or her life. After all, Kate didn't marry him, Monica did.

If she was using Kevin then everything she said wasn't true...if we're mirroring the off island scenes with the ones on island then everything that happened with Sawyer wasn't true or real then in this scenario.

As for the trust thing...I believe she told Sawyer quite directly that she doesn't trust him (Eggtown).

But like you said, Kevin isn't the issue.

Actually I believe the parallel was that what she had with Kevin wasn't real because it was based on living a lie, whereas what she had with Sawyer in the cages was love at its most real, raw and unadorned. It was a contrasting parallel. Lucky for me, the comments by the actress and the writers of that episode agree with me on that interpretation. :biggrin:

Pickett had no idea what Kate meant to Jack. He knew she meant something to Sawyer and visa versa hence his remark to Sawyer “If you got something to say to YOUR girl, best say it tonight”.


Pickett actually threatened “To do her too” if Sawyer hadn’t quit fighting; so why would Pickett feel he couldn’t kill Kate? Hell he chased them across the Island as he and his buddies fired at them without any apparent regard to who their bullets hit.

- I think the reason for separating Jack from Kate and Sawyer was known to everyone.

- Well if we're to go with the theory (and It's a very convincing theory), then Picket was bluffing. After all, when Ben conned Sawyer, he didn't say I'm a better con. He said 'We're better'.

Actually I believe the parallel was that what she had with Kevin wasn't real because it was based on living a lie, whereas what she had with Sawyer in the cages was love at its most real, raw and unadorned. It was a contrasting parallel. Lucky for me, the comments by the actress and the writers of that episode agree with me on that interpretation. :biggrin:

Everything in that episode was compare and contrast, the illusion with the reality. Right down to the pristine perfect white wedding dress versus the total lack of amenities and sheer grubbiness of the cage. That episode was a masterpiece in terms of how it showed us fake Kate versus real Kate. No barrier of lies between her and Sawyer, just complete raw honesty. I don't think either of them had ever been that naked, emotionally, with another person before. That's why it scared them and they started doubting themselves so soon afterwards. Powerful scenes.

- Well if we're to go with the theory (and It's a very convincing theory), then Picket was bluffing. After all, when Ben conned Sawyer, he didn't say I'm a better con. He said 'We're better'.
Theories are not canon. What evidence is there that Pickett was bluffing or that he and his friends wouldn't have killed either one or both of them as they chased them through the jungle? In fact, if I remember correctly, one of them fired AT Kate and hit the walkie she was holding in her hand.

Juliet actually said this:

JULIET: Go, get them back. If you have to, kill them.THEM, not kill Sawyer, make sure you don't hurt Kate.

So a line of dialog or something substantial would be nice if you are going to back up a theory with anything we can all hang our hats on.


- I think the reason for separating Jack from Kate and Sawyer was known to everyone.

I agree, it is well known, Kate asked for Sawyer first. TWICE.

Theories are not canon. What evidence is there that Pickett was bluffing or that he and his friends wouldn't have killed either one or both of them as they chased them through the jungle? In fact, if I remember correctly, one of them fired AT Kate and hit the walkie she was holding in her hand.

Juliet actually said this:


THEM, not kill Sawyer, make sure you don't hurt Kate.

So a line of dialog or something substantial would be nice if you are going to back up a theory with anything we can all hang our hats on.

I said it was a theory and never said it was canon, just quite convincing. I'm just surprised everyone on here isn't actually accepting this as a possibility...especially because a lot of the things stated in this thread have to do with reading between the lines and not what is apparent.

losttvfan, since you're asking for a line of dialog, I suggest you read the earlier posts to see how this discussion started.

Kate asked for Sawyer first. TWICE.
Even before I became a Skater, I could tell who she had the strongest feelings for. This was the part that made it clear for even the casual viewer.

After all this are all the skaters jaters and all the jaters skaters? No, didn't think so.

"For even the casual viewer," as in neutral people who don't ship anything. Not saying it definitely had that effect on every casual viewer, just that it could have.

Once again you misinterpret something and get snarky. Did that work out well for you last time (considering the public admonishment by a mod and fellow posters)? No, didn't think so.

"For even the casual viewer," as in neutral people who don't ship anything. Not saying it definitely had that effect on every casual viewer, just that it could have.

Once again you misinterpret something and get snarky. Did that work out well for you last time (considering the public admonishment by a mod and fellow posters)? No, didn't think so.

James, if you're addressing me, relax yourself I wasn't even talking about you're post. I was simply making a point...after all the back and forth over the past 4 or 5 pages of this thread the people who believed in jate to begin with still believe in jate and the people who believed in skate still believe in skate. If I'm wrong and any converts want to step forward I'd be happy to read their posts.

And btw everything works out well for me all the time,,,it's good to be me :biggrin:

I suspected that much. I may have been on the defensive after you'd addressed me as an "eager little beaver" a few pages ago, or whatever it was ;). Sorry for jumping the gun.

Iosttvfan, since you're asking for a line of dialog, I suggest you read the earlier posts to see how this discussion started.
You are either assuming I didn't or just unwilling to provide any material back up for your own 'theories'. If the first, be assured I did, if the second, you didn't.

After all this are all the skaters jaters and all the jaters skaters? No, didn't think so.
Is that the point of this thread -- to turn Skaters into Jaters or Jaters into Skaters? No, I don't think it is. I believe the thread was created to discuss Kate and Sawyer's reunion. Why not just discuss that and leave Jack, Jack and Kate, the triangle and shipping preferences out of it. Everyone else seems to be able to do so and stay on topic.

You are either assuming I didn't or just unwilling to provide any material back up for your own 'theories'. If the first, be assured I did, if the second, you didn't.


Is that the point of this thread -- to turn Skaters into Jaters or Jaters into Skaters? No, I don't think it is. I believe the thread was created to discuss Kate and Sawyer's reunion. Why not just discuss that and leave Jack, Jack and Kate, the triangle and shipping preferences out of it. Everyone else seems to be able to do so and stay on topic.

You obviously didn't read how it started!!

- They weren't my theories.
- All the discussion centered around Sawyer and Kate.

lol, the atmosphere in here has gotten so testy. It's true, though, that it started as a discussion on Kate and Sawyer's reunion (and the reasons why their fans are happy about it), then swayed off-track when a certain other woman was mentioned, along with comments on "Jaters turning into Skaters" or vice versa.

For the record, I agree with those who say that the music during their reunion was foreshadowing things to come, instead of being a mere tribute to what had come before. We'll know soon enough.

james...it has. it isn't even fun to post let alone read the post.

i'll start again. the sawyer and kate reunion, for me, was too short to know exactly what's going to happen. thankfully, it will be continued on tomorrow night! i thought that sawyer was shocked to see them all, but yes, very happy to see kate. tomorrow, you all will probably have a lot more to talk about, and we, will have a lot to counter!!!;)

I suspected that much. I may have been on the defensive after you'd addressed me as an "eager little beaver" a few pages ago, or whatever it was ;). Sorry for jumping the gun.

Fair enough I can admittedly be an idiot sometimes (I'm sure some would say all the time) My apologies for the remark above. See, I'm not evil.

you all will probably have a lot more to talk about, and we, will have a lot to counter!!!;)
Heh, well why don't we see what plays out on on-screen, maxaholic. I know that people from opposite ships are bound to see things differently from time to time, but I'm sure that no one's stubborn enough that they intend to counter "no matter what" (at least that's what I like to think) ;)

Fair enough I can admittedly be an idiot sometimes (I'm sure some would say all the time) My apologies for the remark above. See, I'm not evil.
Apologies exchanged then. Oh, and if I'm going to be an animal, I'd probably prefer tiger. :)

but I'm sure that no one's stubborn enough that they intend to counter "no matter what" (at least that's what I like to think) ;)



you, and i and a few others, maybe. but we do know that there are some that will argue for arguement's sake. both sides.

Too bad we can't just clone Kate or something. That would satisfy everyone. Then again, this is Lost, so I suppose we can't count that out.

great idea!:biggrin:

Well one thing is sure. My Skateometer will go off the charts, when i will see that hug!.

i'll start again. the sawyer and kate reunion, for me, was too short to know exactly what's going to happen. thankfully, it will be continued on tomorrow night!
It was short (actually, it didn't really get started yet!), but it was crafted that way to lead us into the short hiatus. TPTB are masters of leaving the audience hanging and wanting more. Sawyer and Kate's reunion has probably been one of the highest anticipated moments of this season, if not the series. And the way they led us into it was, IMO, perfect. Just a small taste of what's to come!

It's going to be so awkward between them, but I fully expect the tension to be palpable, and downright delicious!! :drool:

My Skateometer


alec, you silly girl!:roflmao:

It was short (actually, it didn't really get started yet!), but it was crafted that way to lead us into the short hiatus. TPTB are masters of leaving the audience hanging and wanting more. Sawyer and Kate's reunion has probably been one of the highest anticipated moments of this season, if not the series. And the way they led us into it was, IMO, perfect. Just a small taste of what's to come!

It's going to be so awkward between them, but I fully expect the tension to be palpable, and downright delicious!! :drool:
:biggrin: It seems as if everyone is anticipating this reunion:

Wednesday Lost (ABC, 9:00 PM EDT)

Sawyer (Josh Holloway) and Kate (Evangeline Lily) are back together… a development so hotly anticipated that ABC needed to run a repeat last week just so they could get ready for it.

http://www.mania.com/battlestar-galacticas-final-farewell_article_113712.html


Evangeline Lilly, who plays Kate in the Sky One show, has said that viewers believing the tropical romance between the pair was over may be surprised.

"There is a reunion of sorts" awaiting the pair, Evangeline said, despite it appearing that Kate has escaped that mystical island while Sawyer - the handsome rogue played by Josh Holloway - was staying put.

Evangeline called their future encounter "very laced and complicated and simple". However she was careful not to spill any further details. "I never know what I can and can't say," she explained.


http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/tv/news/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=13644781


If we're to believe last night's preview of next Wednesday's Lost, it would seem that the long awaited reunion of Sawyer and Kate (also know as "Skate" on these here internets) will soon be upon us. And so, the bitter debate regarding whom Ms. Austen loves more -- him or Jack -- will burn.


http://blog.zap2it.com/korbitv/2009/02/is-lost-letting-evangeline-lily-go.html

** Don’t fret! Lost is a repeat tonight but will be back next week for the highly anticipated Sawyer/Kate reunion!**http://www.ampradio.com/2009/03/hump-day-tv-idols-supermodels-real-housewives-more/


Phew, right? The preview for the next episode of Lost has alluded to the long-awaited reunion of Kate and Sawyer (Josh Holloway), and Lilly dished on how she hoped it would go down, and what did indeed happen.

“For Evangeline, it was great fun because it’s been a long time since I worked with Josh, and it was great to have that reunion,” she reveals. “I was also nervous that they would write something that would undermine Kate’s character.


http://lost-streams.com/category/blog/interviews-blog

“Sawyer perpetuates a lie with some of the other island survivors in order to ... The episode preview would suggest that we are going to get the reunion of ... love triangle that is Jack, Kate, Sawyer; who will Kate ultimately choose? ... this is probably one of the most highly anticipated episodes of this season.http://www.lostblog.net/

Surprising, long awaited and ANTICIPATED, for sure!

Sawyer and Kate's reunion has probably been one of the highest anticipated moments of this season, if not the series.Well, lets not get carried away now. For Skaters this is undoubtedly true, but there is a sizable chunk of the audience (especially with those not so hardcore, in general, as us Fusies) who really don't give two hoots about the Jate/ Skate debacle and are in fact, quite annoyed by it at this point. For these people, the Skate reunion is not something to get excited about.

I'd say, for probably the majority of fans, the most anticipated moments of the series are things like them getting off the island/ finding out the mysteries, seeing how Locke died, etc.

Well, lets not get carried away now. For Skaters this is undoubtedly true, but there is a sizable chunk of the audience (especially with those not so hardcore, in general, as us Fusies) who really don't give two hoots about the Jate/ Skate debacle and are in fact, quite annoyed by it at this point. For these people, the Skate reunion is not something to get excited about.


I'd say, for probably the majority of fans, the most anticipated moments of the series are things like them getting off the island/ finding out the mysteries, seeing how Locke died, etc.

it's hightly anticipated for skaters because sawyer and kate have been apart for so long and you want them back together. it's highly anticipated for jaters because we think it will not be more than a hug and a smile before sawyer's wheels are turning as to what to do so "they don't screw up what we got". i do agree with kate731 that there is a lot more to the show than just the triangle. in 316, when jate had sex, i was thrilled, but i cannot wait to find out what actually got hurley, sayid and kate on that plane and of course, what happened to aaron. there are so many more great things on lost that i can't even count them.

and i do agree with kate, too, that you're going a little overboard about it being the most highly anticipated moment of the series.


first episode of season 2. WTF happened to walt.
desmond and penny's reunion.
jack making the call for rescue in season 3.
of course, kate and sawyer hooking up
jack and kate hooking up.
opening and going down into the hatch.
you can add the reunion to your list. but not the most highly anticipated.

and i do agree with kate, too, that you're going a little overboard about it being the most highly anticipated moment of the series.
Keep in mind that IceKat said "one of." Your list was pretty good, though.

Well, lets not get carried away now. For Skaters this is undoubtedly true, but there is a sizable chunk of the audience (especially with those not so hardcore, in general, as us Fusies) who really don't give two hoots about the Jate/ Skate debacle and are in fact, quite annoyed by it at this point. For these people, the Skate reunion is not something to get excited about.

I'd say, for probably the majority of fans, the most anticipated moments of the series are things like them getting off the island/ finding out the mysteries, seeing how Locke died, etc.
Thank you for your input.

As James noted above, I specifically said "one of". However, if you refer to Ann's post, it seems that there are plenty of outlets touting the Skate reunion as "one of" the most anticipated moments of this season. Does that mean every single fan of the show? Of course not. But there are plenty of fans (myself included) who are highly invested in the romance between Sawyer & Kate, and are very excited to see the continuation of their reunion ASAP. :)

lol, sorry to start a kurfuffle, I just meant that likening it to one of the most anticipated of the series is (IMO of course) overboard (yes, even as "one of" them). For the season? Yeah, maybe there are enough shippers to make that true. Should have clarified earlier that I was responding to the series portion of the comment.

For me, that label (the series one) is reserved for huge moments that pretty much the entire audience (not just a subset) is waiting to find out (like, how they get off the island, how they get back to the island, whether Charlie lives (back in S3) etc.)

Sometimes I think the Fuse gives a bit of a warped idea of the average, "casual" Lost fan. For example, the Fuse has a lot of shippers. IRL, none of the Lost fans I talk to (the more casual type- I'd say I have about 10 acquaintances I've talked to about the show like this) are interested in the triangle. They want to know the island secrets, etc. Another example is that I find the Fuse has alot of Jack fans, whereas literally none of the "casual" people I talk to IRL seem to like him. *shrugs* This is just my experience however, but I've just never heard one person outside the internet say how much they were anticipating the Skate reunion. I have heard them talk relentlessly about wanting to know what the time travel is, the nature of the Smoke monster, etc. I just always keep in the back of my mind that what we see here in terms of interest isn't really representative of the audience at large. In MY opinion, for the audience at large its not one of the most anticipated moments of the series. Feel free to disagree.

I've been reading this thread, and it's very interesting to see conflicting POVs being debated civilly here, so congrats on that!

In terms of the overall series as well as the 'casual fan', I'd have to agree with Kate731: friends of mine who watch LOST but don't participate the way we do, don't seem all that fussed about the romantic aspects of the show. Of course the romance is important, aids in character development and also in bringing us closer to the characters, but the nature of LOST is such that in the end, most fans are most concerned with the mysteries etc.

As an avid viewer who's a fan of Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Juliet, as well as most other characters, I'm definitely keen on seeing the reunion of them all, including Sawyer and Kate. And, provided the story hereafter in terms of the love interests is well thought out and presented, I'll be happy whoever Kate ends up with. :)

same here, kate and evanesco. whenever i talk to someone and say something about the ships, they roll their eyes. they either hate jack or hate kate. and most of the women loooooove sawyer.

Ya, there's a lot of Kate-hate out there. So many friends of mine (especially women!) seem to despise her for stringing 2 men along (in their view) and for being manipulative and deceptive when the situation calls for it. I can't express how many times I've defended her, bringing up the many times she's risked her neck to save someone since S1, and yet... sigh!

As for Jack, people either love him (flaws and insecurities and issues included, as do I), or they loathe him, call him a wannabe hero, a control freak, and what have you. His rock bottom in S3 was greeted with outright glee by some of my friends, who asked me how I could possibly keep liking him now? My response: I love him even more! was disgusting to them! :D But I completely get Kate's feelings for him, as well as Juliet's, Sara's (at one time), the Italian lady and many, many others, I'm sure. :)

But most people really like Sawyer: they enjoy his snark, his one liners, his looks (of course!) and his general cleverness. I also have enjoyed watching him since the Pilot, because things are never dull when he's around! I can see why Kate would find him attractive, too.

So whoever she chooses to be with eventually, I'll be fine with it. My only problem would be in the unneccessary killing off of Juliet, because that's just a cop out. If TPTB want Kate with Sawyer, they should deal with the fall out in a convincing, realistic manner. As long as they do that, I'm cool.

same here, kate and evanesco. whenever i talk to someone and say something about the ships, they roll their eyes. they either hate jack or hate kate. and most of the women loooooove sawyer.

Even my male friends seem to just love Sawyer as well (not quite in the same way, perhaps ;) ), but they all seem to think he is one of the best/ most interesting and likable characters on the show. (I agree with this actually, its just with the other characters like Jack I feel like I'm constantly having to defend why they're important to the show, even if they're not always as likable. I don't however, like Kate at this point in time, so I don't even bother with that one!)

So whoever she chooses to be with eventually, I'll be fine with it. My only problem would be in the unneccessary killing off of Juliet, because that's just a cop out. If TPTB want Kate with Sawyer, they should deal with the fall out in a convincing, realistic manner. As long as they do that, I'm cool.

Totally agree! Killing off any of the players would be a total cop-out and way for them to not actually have to make a choice. And at this late point in the series, they do need to start picking the one they want and developing it back to a place where the general audience (not just the die-hards) care about the couple again.

I mean, evanesco is dead-on with what I've heard as well from people about not liking Kate's back-and-forth business. I hate it as well, so on this issue I'm "one of them". And the thing is, in my mind TPTB are very capable of writing both relationships well (jate/ skate) cause I've seen them do it in the past. I used to love Skate back in the early seasons, and loved Jate for a while after that, and now just feel apathy towards all of them (mostly cause of Kate's actions in season 3... really turned me off, and I'm not the only one). But if the writers PICK one and do their development RIGHT, I know they can bring the audience back around to caring aobut their chosen couple.

I have no doubt that LaFleur/ the Skate reuinion will set up something for these two... whether it is yet another fling while one of them angsts over another person (geez, just what we need) or whether the writers actually dig in and re-develop this relationship for the long-term remains to be seen.

agreed! no killing juliet for the sake of the quad.

I'm at risk of getting shot every time I venture this opinion, but the Whole; Sawyer - Kate - Jack - Juliet...
on and on and on and on and..........
I couldnt care less about Kates love life, and am far more interested in the dynamic between Jack and Sawyer. Kate blurs their rivalry by making it about her, when there is so much more "Alpha male" stuff to go at.
Now Sawyer has the power. He knows loads about the Island, maybe more than he will let on, he is top dog, and Jack, who has spent so much time suffering and struggling to get back will somehow have to deal with that.
Sawyer is going to get all distracted and Juliet is going to want to kill her... (and quite right too)

I love all the characters in the show without exceptions (and that in a TV show is unique for me), but I hate poncy, convoluted love triangles. Save that tosh for "Greys Anatomy"!!!!!!

I would LOVE for Sawyer to stick by what he said and prove he is with Juliet.
Kate can get on with her mission, Jack can sulk, and the story can move on...

Ya, there's a lot of Kate-hate out there. So many friends of mine (especially women!) seem to despise her for stringing 2 men along (in their view) and for being manipulative and deceptive when the situation calls for it. I can't express how many times I've defended her, bringing up the many times she's risked her neck to save someone since S1, and yet... sigh!


Sadly, I think Kate has been severely damaged by the writers insistance of dragging out the love triangle. If you look at it from Kate's POV, the time elapsed between her romance with Sawyer, and her brief relationship with Jack, was three years. She thought Sawyer was dead/lost forever, so it makes sense for her to try & move on with her life. However...for the viewers, all we've seen is Kate ping-ponging through practically every damn episode. One second she's kissing Sawyer back in the chopper, the next second she's engaged to another man. These two events (and others) happened in episodes that were very close together, so she looks much worse to the audience than I think the writers would have wanted.

It was a complicated, delicate balance, and I think they made mistakes with both Sawyer and Kate along the way, there's no question of that. They stated that Kate would make her choice in 'I Do', but then they'd explore her commitment issues. We did see all of that, but it was very frustrating for many audience members who aren't invested in the romantic aspects. It just made Kate look flighty and fickle.

Now that Sawyer and Kate are back on the Island together, I think we're going to see Jack's role in the romantic aspects diminish significantly. His relationship with Kate was fairly settled off-Island, and he's obviously got an Island destiny to pursue. And I believe it became 100% clear this season that Kate's choice was always Sawyer - was always going to be Sawyer - and now we've got Juliet in the way. She will provide the needed angst to keep the Skate pairing apart until the final season. Once the 'Suliet' pairing runs it's course, the way will be clear for Sawyer & Kate to finally be together. And this time, with all the growth and wisdom they've gained in their years apart, they'll finally be able to get it right. :wub:
100%

I would LOVE for Sawyer to stick by what he said and prove he is with Juliet.


I believe this is exactly what we're going to see, for awhile. Sawyer will try to stay loyal to Juliet, and try to deny that he's still in love with Kate. But I think we all know that he and Kate will eventually have to act on their feelings. I think even Juliet will realize that, which is going to start the angst-fest in this new love triangle.

ETA: lovin' tonight's sneak peek (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/03/episode-509-namaste-4-sneak-peeks.html) where

Sawyer leis Kate! :biggrin:

sandman, i agree with you that they have destroyed kate's "character". the actress seems to be happy with the way they're going this season, so that is definitely a good thing. jack, if you can detect it, has changed as soon as ben told him that he could get him back. he doesn't seem to me sulky anymore. i think he will be ready, willing and able to get on with whatever he needs to do on the island. going up against sawyer? they definitely will butt heads, but isn't that what's fun? the quad is a very boring, tedious storyline. there is way too much going on on the show to not pay attention to the mythology and the island.

if all the talk about the reunion is redundant to you, join the club. we love to make each other miserable!;)

if we go back to kate's character.....what would you like her to do in this situation? elbow juliet out of the way to get to sawyer, put her hands on her hips and say, "he's mine juliet. he always has been and he always will be. i never wanted to come back to the island, but now that i'm here, i need someone to shack up with. oh, and by the way, i slept with jack last night." OR would you like her to be there to find out what she needs to for the island and stick with the man she slept with last night? just wondering.:biggrin:

jack, if you can detect it, has changed as soon as ben told him that he could get him back. he doesn't seem to me sulky anymore. i think he will be ready, willing and able to get on with whatever he needs to do on the island. going up against sawyer? they definitely will butt heads, but isn't that what's fun? the quad is a very boring, tedious storyline. there is way too much going on on the show to not pay attention to the mythology and the island.
*fails to see what the above paragraph has to do with this thread*

if we go back to kate's character.....what would you like her to do in this situation? elbow juliet out of the way to get to sawyer, put her hands on her hips and say, "he's mine juliet. he always has been and he always will be. i never wanted to come back to the island, but now that i'm here, i need someone to shack up with.
I assume this was sarcasm, because no one in their right mind would either want or expect Kate to behave in this manner. In fact, I think Kate's going to try really hard to convince herself that her feelings for Sawyer are no longer romantic, and also try her best not to come between him & Juliet.

She's grown, she's changed, she's much more mature than the Kate that Sawyer knew 3 years ago. She became, for all intents and purposes, a mother. She learned to move past her issues of hero-worship in places where it wasn't warranted, and IMO, she's going to start seeing Sawyer as a much more stable guy now. He's in a position of power, and has done pretty well for himself in the DI, especially considering he's had to live and maintain a pretty massive lie for 3 years. He's also showing himself to be excellent relationship material, having made a bit of a nest with Juliet. He's grown, changed and matured himself. They're both gonna be in much better positions, second time around, to meet each other in the middle and get it right.

Yep...IMO, it's now Sawyer's turn for Kate to begin seeing him in a whole new light...and that light will be a bright, positive one!

And re: the sneak peeks for tonight's episode (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/03/episode-509-namaste-4-sneak-peeks.html):

I absolutely LOVE the shy looks that Sawyer and Kate exchange as he "leis" her! :biggrin:

OK. i brought this forward so we can finally discuss the continuation to the reunion.

we got the hug and the "good to see you, kid". was it everything and more of what you expected? he did get right to the point of what was the best way to bring them in, which we all speculated that he would do. i've said in other threads for namaste that he had some longing looks to kate throughout the episode, but that she seemed demure and standoffish. i know that she's missing aaron and still beside herself for the decisions that she's made; hence the pacing on her porch that evening.

the reunion was exactly the way that evi said it would be "simple".;)

OK. i brought this forward so we can finally discuss the continuation to the reunion.

we got the hug and the "good to see you, kid". was it everything and more of what you expected? he did get right to the point of what was the best way to bring them in, which we all speculated that he would do. i've said in other threads for namaste that he had some longing looks to kate throughout the episode, but that she seemed demure and standoffish. i know that she's missing aaron and still beside herself for the decisions that she's made; hence the pacing on her porch that evening.

the reunion was exactly the way that evi said it would be "simple".;)

"Kid"? The exchange was "It's good to see you, Kate", "It's good to see you too, James".

It was a very mature, if awkward, moment. No 'Sawyer', no 'Freckles'...just the two of them, now changed, very different people, with a touch of "oh yeah...I remember you" familiarity between them.

So far, their reunion is playing out exactly as I presumed it would, and it's fun to watch. Awkward smiles & glances, maybe a bit of shyness and uncertainty. Kate is still reeling from her loss of Aaron. And Sawyer is angsting over the fact that his entire life has been turned upside down by her return. His love for Kate and his loyalty to Juliet are going to cause him plenty of torment, as was evidenced by his torn expression on the porch. He waved at her, and had a look like he wanted to go to her and talk, but he instead turned and went back inside to Juliet.

This, I expect, will continue for several more episodes, if not 'til the end of the season. Sawyer will try to keep up his life with Juliet; Kate will try to stay out of the way. I believe Juliet is going to get insecure, judging by her reaction to the news, and the fact that she A) made Kate sweat a bit in processing, and B) put her in the Motor Pool to keep an eye on her.

All leading up to the inevitable...Sawyer and Kate, eventually rekindling their romance. :)

sorry, i listened to it again. i thought he said kid.

I definitely heard "kid". Not a big deal though, it fit the moment.

I definitely heard "kid". Not a big deal though, it fit the moment.

That would have been cute, too, kind of Casablanca-ish...but he said Kate (which paralleled her "James"). Lostpedia's transcript also has Kate.

I'm hoping they don't get together myself.



Kate has never exactly been nice to anyone including sawyer let alone jack and all the other guys she has betrayed. sawyer should stay with juliet and they should go crazy and have tons of wild sawyer babies.:cool:;):grin::yes::yes::yes: jack should kill everyone in his wild druggie path to get back with kate who will soon enough run away and get mad at him again. jacks crazy if he likes her. :eek2:

who is with me?