i really really really hope Darlton stick with their promise of no time paradoxes and no alternate timelines. they've been staunch about making this rule known since season 3. the only exception is and should only be Desmond. if this turns into Bill and Ted or Frequency and the Losties in 1977 are able to make changes that resonate into 2007 that were never supposed to happen, i will officially call it a shark jump. i hope most people are with me. alternate timelines are done to death. the only other exception i'll make is if the main conflict for Locke is to be able to have free will, but i really hope not.

I agree, this time travel has become unnecessarily complex. They once said time travel will never happen. I wonder when the smoke monster will be nanites, which they also said it wasn't?

i really really really hope Darlton stick with their promise of no time paradoxes and no alternate timelines. they've been staunch about making this rule known since season 3. the only exception is and should only be Desmond. if this turns into Bill and Ted or Frequency and the Losties in 1977 are able to make changes that resonate into 2007 that were never supposed to happen, i will officially call it a shark jump. i hope most people are with me. alternate timelines are done to death. the only other exception i'll make is if the main conflict for Locke is to be able to have free will, but i really hope not.
I don't think you need to worry. I know a lot of people have been unable to understand it, and keep thinking they see changes, paradoxes, and alternate timelines, but there just hasn't been anything to suggest that, infact just the opposite. As you say, if they did it would be pathetic and make the whole show silly and trite, I have total faith this will not happen.

I agree, this time travel has become unnecessarily complex. They once said time travel will never happen. I wonder when the smoke monster will be nanites, which they also said it wasn't?

Wow that actually surprises me. This is the simplest time travel story to follow I've ever seen. The fact that nothing can change is what makes it so easy. What seems to throw people is that they keep looking for change where none exists.

Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure is actually the same sort of linear, unchanging, timeline as Lost. They just wink at the camera more. Consider Ted's father's keys. Order of events:


Ted's father can't find his keys, he accuses Ted of stealing them. Ted has no idea what he's talking about
The boys get access to the phone booth. Wacky time travel adventures ensue
The boys break out of jail and realize they need a car. Ted says that shortly after they give their presentation, he will use the phone booth to go back a few days and steal his fathers keys. He will leave the keys in a specific place
Immediately after Ted says this, he looks in the place he said he left the keys. The keys are there.

There is no alternate time line created here. It is the same as Juliet traveling back to 1977 to make sure Ethan is born. In 2001, Ethan is alive. Why? Because Juliet traveled to 1977. One timeline.

Wow that actually surprises me. This is the simplest time travel story to follow I've ever seen. The fact that nothing can change is what makes it so easy. What seems to throw people is that they keep looking for change where none exists.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Lost can be so complicated in someways, that I suppose a lot of people are thinking that the time travel has to be more complex than it is.

duckab234 >
i really really really hope Darlton stick with their promise of no time paradoxes and no alternate timelines. they've been staunch about making this rule known since season 3.




the only exception is and should only be Desmond.


Talk about having your cake AND eating it ! :hb2:

So, no paradox unless it's Desmond.

Dead is dead unless it's Locke.

And Smokey isn't a pile of nanobites unless Kate's the one to discover it.

"note to writers" ! - Seriously, some of you seem to enjoy complaining about the show more than watching it.


nynaeve >
As you say, if they did it would be pathetic and make the whole show silly and trite, I have total faith this will not happen.


It would make it pathetic for those who have been fooled into thinking the show is about Charlie and the love triangle. Those of us who watch for clues knew Des would change history back in Season 2, while you guys were complaining about Kate not making her choice.

Talk about having your cake AND eating it ! :hb2:

So, no paradox unless it's Desmond.

Dead is dead unless it's Locke.

And Smokey isn't a pile of nanobites unless Kate's the one to discover it.

"note to writers" ! - Seriously, some of you seem to enjoy complaining about the show more than watching it.


It would make it pathetic for those who have been fooled into thinking the show is about Charlie and the love triangle. Those of us who watch for clues knew Des would change history back in Season 2, while you guys were complaining about Kate not making her choice.
Why are you making assumptions about how I view or don't view Lost? Kate making her choice is pretty low down on what has ever interested me or what I deemed lost to be about. I responded to the OP concerns, saying why I believed they shouldn't worry. Going back on whatever happened, happened would mean no past story line is valid, as it could be changed, that would be pathetic and I for one do not think for a second that it will happen. Please don't make judgements about me whan you appear to have misunderstood my post.

bill and ted's is an excellent example

Well, this is a board about Lost and you're making wild, sweeping statements about how "pathetic" a given storyline might be, so I went with the tone of the thread.

But yeah, it was just tongue-in-cheek. Of course I don't know where your Lost interests fall. Apologies.

bill and ted's is an excellent example
Of what? A good or a bad time travel story? I happen to think it's a great one. Frequency is also great, even though I don't subscribe to its rules of time travel.

Well, this is a board about Lost and you're making wild, sweeping statements about how "pathetic" a given storyline might be, so I went with the tone of the thread.

But yeah, it was just tongue-in-cheek. Of course I don't know where your Lost interests fall. Apologies.
My "wild and sweeping statement" goes along with exactly what the writers have said themselves about time travel and what they have shown us so far. I would also say it would be pathetic if they all sprouted wings and started flying round the Island in leotards, and I'm just as certain that wont happen either.

Okay, from your understanding of the show, what have you been certain of so far? Personally, I'm not doing bad - Reincarnation, Powers, Time Travel and Teleportation, Powers in general, "The Box", Manifestations through Memory Access, a 108 Day Loop, Ajira crashing, Kate raising Aaron . . . all predicted years ago. And, as I say, I saw "changing the past / future" coming waaaay back, so I'm feeling lucky.

As for what the writers say, you have to read / listen carefully. They tell the truth, but not at first glance.

So, no paradox unless it's Desmond.
I say no time paradox, period. I've seen nothing to indicate that Desmond can alter the spacetime continuum, and I hope to continue in that state. He is special only because his consciousness and memory can flit around in time.

They once said time travel will never happen.
*defending Darlton for the 1,001st time on this point...*
They NEVER said there would never be time travel.
In season one Damon said, "I don't think we've shown anything yet on the show...that is flat out impossible.... There is no time travel." If some fans took that statement to mean there would never be time travel, that's their mistake.

Okay, from your understanding of the show, what have you been certain of so far? Personally, I'm not doing bad - Reincarnation, Powers, Time Travel and Teleportation, Powers in general, "The Box", Manifestations through Memory Access, a 108 Day Loop, Ajira crashing, Kate raising Aaron . . . all predicted years ago. And, as I say, I saw "changing the past / future" coming waaaay back, so I'm feeling lucky.

As for what the writers say, you have to read / listen carefully. They tell the truth, but not at first glance.
So it's a competition now about who has understood Lost best so far? I could easily go down that and give you a big list, but I'm not that childish and don't feel the need to validate myself in that way. However I will state, there will not be any changing the past, I'm not feeling lucky on that, I'm feeling certain. But time will tell wont it. Maybe you should take your own patronising advice and start reading and listening carefully.

It's not a competition, it's just all very familiar to me. When I suggested any one of those things on my list back in the day I got an identical response: "NEVER going to happen". A couple of years later when it does happen everyone's like, "Well, yeah, that happened, but no way the next thing is going to happen". You're talking in absolutes about what you claim to be certain of, and I'm trying to make you realise that you shouldn't be so sure.

As for changing the past, how do you all explain Desmond's little trip to the pub in FBYE? Did he not change the past, albeit slightly, even back then?

And in terms of story-telling, why do you think Faraday has said what he has said about Desmond's unique ability? As a Red Herring to throw us off the track?

edit :
As for the list of theories you say you could provide me if you wanted to, I just did a search and you haven't started a single theory thread. It's easy to stand back and be a naysayer, it's not so easy to actually make a prediction.

It's not a competition, it's just all very familiar to me. When I suggested any one of those things on my list back in the day I got an identical response: "NEVER going to happen". A couple of years later when it does happen everyone's like, "Well, yeah, that happened, but no way the next thing is going to happen". You're talking in absolutes about what you claim to be certain of, and I'm trying to make you realise that you shouldn't be so sure.

As for changing the past, how do you all explain Desmond's little trip to the pub in FBYE? Did he not change the past, albeit slightly, even back then?

And in terms of story-telling, why do you think Faraday has said what he has said about Desmond's unique ability? As a Red Herring to throw us off the track?

edit :
As for the list of theories you say you could provide me if you wanted to, I just did a search and you haven't started a single theory thread. It's easy to stand back and be a naysayer, it's not so easy to actually make a prediction.
I think you need to reread my post. I said I could give you a long list of what I have thought,and what I have been wright about. I didn't say anywhere what I have or haven't posted. As you say it is very easy to stand back and say after the event that I predidcted this or that, that is exactly why I didn't give a list. I did however say what I think is going to happen or not going to happen, and that is the past being changed.

I think we are going to see them or some of them attempt to change the past and fail. I think this will lead to Ben becoming the person he is and it will cause the incident. I think time travel will only really be relevant in this season, that by the end of it, they will have returned to their normal time. That is my prediction based on what I have been watching.

I really don't need you telling me how to look at anything or what I need to realise, but if I ever do I will be sure to let you know. It must be so nice being so superior.

nynaeve >
It must be so nice being so superior.


While the rest of us theorise, you claim to KNOW what is and isn't going to happen - that's a superiority complex.

Anyway, moving on . . .

While the rest of us theorise, you claim to KNOW what is and isn't going to happen - that's a superiority complex.

Anyway, moving on . . .
I theorize about what I think is going to happen, I only claim to know what IS happening. Whatever happened, happened, they have told this and showed us this all season so far. If you can't see/wont see/don't like that, well good for you, I don't care what you think or how you view Lost.
It was you that originally decided you could comment on my post in a condesending, rude way, just because it doesn't fit in with how you see it, that is what I call a superiority complex.

While the rest of us theorise, you claim to KNOW what is and isn't going to happen - that's a superiority complex.

Anyway, moving on . . .

He never said he knew what was going to happen he just stated based on what weve seen where he thinks it's going, same thing that you claimed to do with the things you listed.

I agree, based on what we've seen, I do not think the past will be changed, but I cannot say for sure because there is always the possibility Desmond will come back and we don't know the full extent of how/why he is different. But so far, nothing has changed.

Come on now children, enough bickering.

They once said time travel will never happen.

I don't recall ever reading or hearing that. They stated there would be no paradox and no multiple realities because this would cause the viewer to not feel invested in the events that happen on the show, much like with Hiro in Heroes. That (along with Syler revealing his nerdy face) is why THAT show jumped the shark in the second season.

I could easily go down that and give you a big list
That implies that you've made posts indicating your predictions. The only other interpretation of this statement would be that you could give a big list of theories you thought to yourself at nebulous times or conversations you've had with your mates while watching the show.

The only thing that counts is what's in evidence.

I don't recall ever reading or hearing that. They stated there would be no paradox and no multiple realities because this would cause the viewer to not feel invested in the events that happen on the show, much like with Hiro in Heroes. That (along with Syler revealing his nerdy face) is why THAT show jumped the shark in the second season.


That implies that you've made posts indicating your predictions. The only other interpretation of this statement would be that you could give a big list of theories you thought to yourself at nebulous times or conversations you've had with your mates while watching the show.

The only thing that counts is what's in evidence.
That was in response to being asked and I quote " what have you been certain of so far." NOT what have I posted so far. And it certainly wouldn't be something I would just say, that I have been right about many things, whether I had or not. If you read my posts on this thread, I said I thought that would be childish, plus as I haven't posted a lot, I couldn't back it up. But, I really don't feel the need to do so either. Lucidy commented on my post to start with in a way I didn't like. So I responded. I wasn't interested in trying to score points.

I could give a big list of things I have felt sure about, doesn't mean I have posted them. I've only had a my laptop for just over a year, before that I only came on the 'large now and again and rarely posted. But I still had many thoughts and theories, I wasn't aware that in order to have or give an opinion on Lost, I had to have a back catalougue of posts.

As for the only thing that counts being what's in evidence, maybe if it was a competition, but bragging and being in competion with other posters really isn't my thing, even if I did have evidence - I'm not 10 years old.
100%
Come on now children, enough bickering.
Haha, it is childish I agree, but being patronised has that effect on me!!;)

Well, as I said the other day, it's not a good idea to be so sure something isn't going to happen.

Here's the book Ben gave Sayid : A Separate Reality (http://www.vitalbodies.com/4/images/cc_a_separate_reality.jpg). But it's probably just a coincidence. ;)

I don't recall ever reading or hearing that.

They have. Someone has posted it on one of the season 5 threads. I forget exactly when it was, but it was during season 3 I believe, where Damon and Carlton were talking about how some wierd stuff goes on in the show, but nothing as wierd as time travel, etc. I'll look around for it.

As for changing the past, how do you all explain Desmond's little trip to the pub in FBYE? Did he not change the past, albeit slightly, even back then?
Desmond's memory filled in something that he never actually saw happen, because he was unconscious. (The bartender getting hit by the bat.)

And in terms of story-telling, why do you think Faraday has said what he has said about Desmond's unique ability? As a Red Herring to throw us off the track?
No, Faraday said Desmond was special because he IS special. But he didn't go into details about what he meant by that. Damon Lindelof has, in a couple interviews, however. He has NOT said Desmond is special because he can change the past. He HAS said Desmond is special because his memory can "bop around in time" as influenced by the "aggregate of destiny". And what we saw on the screen (2007-Desmond waking up with a memory of 2005-Faraday talking to 2004-Desmond) is compatible with Damon's explanation, but not compatible with the explanation of changing the past... because changing the past would give no reason for the memory to skip all the way to 2007 (with Desmond still not remembering yet in 2006).

They have. Someone has posted it on one of the season 5 threads. I forget exactly when it was, but it was during season 3 I believe, where Damon and Carlton were talking about how some wierd stuff goes on in the show, but nothing as wierd as time travel, etc. I'll look around for it.
The quote is from Damon Lindelof at the end of Season 1. He said, "I don't think we've shown on the show so far... anything impossible....There is no time travel."

They never said there would never be any time travel.