I am assuming they are referring to the Degroots and Alvar Hanso. It will be great to see some background on them in future episodes.

That was the best part of the episode to me. Awesome reveal.

Yea it was one of the better reveals/moments in an otherwise bland episode. Didn't carry the momentum of the previous four, five.

Looks like whoever's in Ann Arbor swings a bit more weight on final island decisions within the Dharma Initiative.

Isn't that where The Dharma Initiative got its start? The University of Michigan, if I'm remembering right...? It might have been revealed in the first ARG. I think.

Isn't that where The Dharma Initiative got its start? The University of Michigan, if I'm remembering right...? It might have been revealed in the first ARG. I think.


It was the Swan Orientation in Season 2.
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I am assuming they are referring to the Degroots and Alvar Hanso. It will be great to see some background on them in future episodes.


I don't know about Hanso - he was the money man and Danish, no? But the Ann Arbor reference is certainly the long awaited return of the deGroots to the story.

So does this mention of Ann Arbor kill the speculation that Widmore started Dharma? Seems whomever's in Ann Arbor gives the final word.

So does this mention of Ann Arbor kill the speculation that Widmore started Dharma? Seems whomever's in Ann Arbor gives the final word.

If memory serves me right, Widmore was a part of Richard's group. He was never a part of Dharma.

And yet somehow, Ben's coup over the Dharma resulted in the Hostiles replacing the Dharma folks.

And the food drops continued well after the coup. Pretty cool deal going on there, huh?

How is this a "reveal"? I thought that was a pretty mundane detail... It's been known for awhile that DI was started by the DeGroots, who are grad students at U of M, which is in Ann Arbor...

So does this mention of Ann Arbor kill the speculation that Widmore started Dharma? Seems whomever's in Ann Arbor gives the final word.

Widmore could still be involved with Dharma and certainly help fund it, so I don't think he's been eliminated from the DI loop yet.

How is this a "reveal"? I thought that was a pretty mundane detail... It's been known for awhile that DI was started by the DeGroots, who are grad students at U of M, which is in Ann Arbor...
I'm with you....it is not anything new. The Degroots founded the DI. I did always assume they lived on the Island though.

Alvar Hanso funded the DI but the Degroots were the head of the DI.

If memory serves me right, Widmore was a part of Richard's group. He was never a part of Dharma.

And yet somehow, Ben's coup over the Dharma resulted in the Hostiles replacing the Dharma folks.

And the food drops continued well after the coup. Pretty cool deal going on there, huh?


Yeah, makes me want to speculate about Hurley doing kitchen duty:rolleyes:

I know we've only seen Widmore as part of Richards group, I'm just talking about the theories that Widmore was somehow forced off the island and created Dharma as a way to get the island back from Richard and or Ben. I'm so glad the writers brought back the University of Michigan again so hopefully that means we'll get some more info on how Dharma was begain and who created it.

Yeah, I didn't see this as a reveal, just as a cute little tidbit, almost an easter egg for the fans who obviously know about the Degroots in Ann Arbor. But it was fun to hear.

can someone please fill me in on what ann arbor means? now im curious

can someone please fill me in on what ann arbor means? now im curious

Ann Arbor, Michigan, is where the University of Michigan is located.

The DeGroots (founders of the DI) are Ph.D. students at U of M.

can someone please fill me in on what ann arbor means? now im curious
Ann Arbor is a city in the State of Michigan, USA. The University that the deGroots were affiliated with, University of Michigan, is in the city of Ann Arbor.

I thought it was cool, but it's been a reeeeeeeally long time since we've seen the Degroots onscreen and even then it was only for a split second. Same with Alvar Hanson. However, I do believe it's more likely that he'll be involved in the future of the show based on his connection to Magnus and the Black Rock.

The reason people think that Widmore is connected to the Dharma Initiative is because of his multiple corporate enterprises and the fact that in the book Bad Twin it was stated that the Widmore Group was involved in things described very similarly to what's going on with the Dharma Initiative on the island. That, and it just seems like something he would do.

I liked the reference but feel that we won't get much more on the DeGroots than we already have because of the time constraints left on the series.

I liked the reference but feel that we won't get much more on the DeGroots than we already have because of the time constraints left on the series.

I would be surprised if they don't tie up that loose end by the end of this "time-jumping" storyline. If the Initiative is still around post-purge (and why wouldn't it be, now that we know they have people in the States), we'll see what they're up to when we get back to 2007. We may even see what they're up to now, and then continue the storyline in '07. That would be interesting.

I liked the reference but feel that we won't get much more on the DeGroots than we already have because of the time constraints left on the series.

I think we will. Gut feeling, but I think one or both of them will pop up, with out being on a pre-recorded video.

Suppose Charles Widmore is a direct descendent of Magnus Hanso & used Alvar as an Alias or "Dummy Corporation" name to finance Dharma? The only picture we've seen of Alvar is fuzzy & unidentifiable.

Using the lamppost as evidence, what if Ann Arbor(UOM) is the location of sorta like a master DHARMA station. We know that thats where The DeGroots are got there PhDs and taught classes...whose to say they dont have a station we've yet to see where they sit around....like everyone did at Horaces tonight...and make decisions the same way.

Who knows, maybe its not like that it all. But Id like to think that if The Degroots are in Ann Arbor, its more than them sitting around grading term papers waiting on a phone call from the island.

Theories of old were Widmore Construction was contracted to build the stations. Websites show The Hanso Foundation which funded De Groots DI was part of the Widmore group along with Paik Industries.

Alvar and Charles had a falling out leading to Thomas Mittlewerk replacing Alvar, so their are connections upon which to base theories.

I for one cant see whoever it may be as the head honchos of Dharma not being on the island. I have always wondered about a possible sky station on the island, I mean Naomi had to parachute from something right? In anycase if DI has a main HQ in ANn Arbor surely theyd have means to view everday going ons on the island.

Not a huge reveal, but I thought it was interesting to learn that they contact "the other side" on big time decisions like this.

I think it means Annie is the leader of DHARMA. Her last name is Arbor.






No I don't.

I think it means Annie is the leader of DHARMA. Her last name is Arbor.







No I don't.


ROTFLMAO:biggrin: I love it!

Widmore told Locke that he was the Island's leader/protector for 30 years until Ben tricked him into leaving the Island.

Why the hell would he then fund the Dharma Initiative who would be getting into trouble with his own people?

can someone please fill me in on what ann arbor means? now im curious
Ann Arbor is a place of pure evil.

I actually missed the reference to Ann Arbor on the show last night. Please fill me in.

Ann Arbor is a place of pure evil.

I actually missed the reference to Ann Arbor on the show last night. Please fill me in.

actually that would be Columbus. Ann Arbor is where the Victors reside, we should all hail to them.

Really though, the DeGroots "started" the DI at University of Michigan...which is located in Ann Arbor

If memory serves me right, Widmore was a part of Richard's group. He was never a part of Dharma.

And yet somehow, Ben's coup over the Dharma resulted in the Hostiles replacing the Dharma folks.

And the food drops continued well after the coup. Pretty cool deal going on there, huh?
Maybe this is time travel related somehow(the drops)?
I mean Dharma HQ(Ann Arbor) must have noticed that all their folks have been purged,I think that the food drops were intended for the people in the 70's/80's and "the
Island" somehow got the plane on "a different track on the record" if you catch my drift..

Really though, the DeGroots "started" the DI at University of Michigan...which is located in Ann Arbor

I understand all of that. I just missed where it was referenced on the show last night.

actually that would be Columbus. Ann Arbor is where the Victors reside, we should all hail to them.

Really though, the DeGroots "started" the DI at University of Michigan...which is located in Ann Arbor

beat me to it!

Great reference.....GO BLUE!

beat me to it!

Great reference.....GO BLUE!

Now I know the "War" Widmore told Locke was coming.......

Widmore and Alpert drivers licenses will show they were from Columbus OH(Ohio State).

The Degroots are from Ann Arbor MI.(Univ of Mich).

They already had the "10 year war" in the seventies so they are preparing for WWII????

With all the Zombies on the island, maybe the whispers are BO and WOODY!!!!! Jacob did look like Woody!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Ann Arbor is where the Victors reside,
So, Rich Rod lives outside the city limits?

I understand all of that. I just missed where it was referenced on the show last night.

When the DI were sitting in Horace's house discussing what to do with their prison, aka Sayid, one person said they should call Ann Arbor for a decision, instead they decided to just take a vote.

When the DI were sitting in Horace's house discussing what to do with their prison, aka Sayid, one person said they should call Ann Arbor for a decision, instead they decided to just take a vote.
Thank you.

ok wait... i don't remember Ann Arbor coming up in the episode at all... how did it come up?

ok wait... i don't remember Ann Arbor coming up in the episode at all... how did it come up?

Radzinsky told Horace if he wouldn't act that he would call Ann Arbor and fill them in with what's going on.

I think it was fairly major because we know Dharma has people off the island. So unless all the members of the Initiative close up shop in Ann Arbor, come to the island before the purge, and then get purged, then Dharma could very well still be operational to this day.

That's huge!

Theories of old were Widmore Construction was contracted to build the stations. Websites show The Hanso Foundation which funded De Groots DI was part of the Widmore group along with Paik Industries.

Alvar and Charles had a falling out leading to Thomas Mittlewerk replacing Alvar, so their are connections upon which to base theories.

I for one cant see whoever it may be as the head honchos of Dharma not being on the island. I have always wondered about a possible sky station on the island, I mean Naomi had to parachute from something right? In anycase if DI has a main HQ in ANn Arbor surely theyd have means to view everday going ons on the island.


This is exactly right. Widmore and Paik were tied to the Hanso foundation. i bvelieve in the ARG they mentioned that some of Dharma's offices were on the 8th floor of the Widmore Industries building. It doesn't make sense though because Widmore must still be on the island, he said Ben took everything away from him right? Sop how can Dharma offices be in his building if he is still on the island waiting to be tricked by Ben. Unles Widmore is a company that has been around for some time now.

either way, great Easter Egg but i don't think we'll ever see the DeGroots or Hanso in the future. i think theytied up the Hanso story when Rachael went to go visit alvar and found out that she was his daughter.

Didn't Chang say in the Comic-Con video that he was a physicist from Ann Arbor, Michigan?

University of Michigan is also where they invented LSD, looked like thats what they gave to sayid.

I think it was fairly major because we know Dharma has people off the island. So unless all the members of the Initiative close up shop in Ann Arbor, come to the island before the purge, and then get purged, then Dharma could very well still be operational to this day.

That's huge!
If there are Dharma people off island who survived the purge, why did Chang need to send the Comic-Con video into the future. Why didn't he send a copy of the film to Ann Arbor. He could outline the events of what is about to happen. He could let them know they need to reconstitute the DI. There was the flame station. He could have transmitted the info through that.

If there are Dharma people off island who survived the purge, why did Chang need to send the Comic-Con video into the future. Why didn't he send a copy of the film to Ann Arbor. He could outline the events of what is about to happen. He could let them know they need to reconstitute the DI. There was the flame station. He could have transmitted the info through that.

I think the voice we hear in the background is Daniel who tells Chang "its useless". Do we know how it got to the future? I'm assuming someone from the past brought it to the future?

Not sure why he didn't tell Dharma people on the mainland in Ann Arbor rather than just make the video...but we don't know the whole story yet. Maybe he tried but couldn't ...maybe it was stolen....I don't know.

But I'm not sure at what point Dharma on the mainland(if they existed)realized that the Purge occured as they did continue food drops. I think The Others tried to give the DI on the mainland the impression that The DI was continuing as usual...thus Mikhail and the LG girls were the DI uniforms. They would be the ones in communication with the outside world.

University of Michigan is also where they invented LSD, looked like thats what they gave to sayid.

Interesting tidbit of info about U of M, so now we know where Oldham got it from. Seems like he must've mixed it with sodium pentathol too. I don't think LSD by itself would cause somebody to spout the unvarnished truth like Sayid did.

Great reference to the De Groots, I nearly fell off my sofa when Radzinsky mentioned
Ann Arbor and "them." Seems like it's been a really long time since we heard about them or about Hanso. I love it when TPTB circle back and start filling in some of the blanks.

Widmore could still be involved with Dharma and certainly help fund it, so I don't think he's been eliminated from the DI loop yet.


Why in the world would widmore drop food to ben? the man hes been trying to kill the whole time weve known him just about...and if he was with RIchard's Group why would a hostile turncoat like that. Isnt there only job to protect the Island?
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Interesting tidbit of info about U of M, so now we know where Oldham got it from. Seems like he must've mixed it with sodium pentathol too. I don't think LSD by itself would cause somebody to spout the unvarnished truth like Sayid did.

Great reference to the De Groots, I nearly fell off my sofa when Radzinsky mentioned
Ann Arbor and "them." Seems like it's been a really long time since we heard about them or about Hanso. I love it when TPTB circle back and start filling in some of the blanks.


LSD has been around longer than 1977, also LSD or ACid does NOT put u to sleep in the least bit. and it does not have truth telling properties, ive lied my way out trouble b4. so the Sodium Pentathol would have to be used. i dont think that sayid was given LSD based on the fact he seemed loopy, for all we know he couldve been giving a conctrated dose of sleeping pills (obviously not) but u kno what i mean.

I was wrong about the invention of lsd at UM, they only created and tested it there, probably for the cia but most of the data was destoyed in 1973.

Why in the world would widmore drop food to ben? the man hes been trying to kill the whole time weve known him just about...and if he was with RIchard's Group why would a hostile turncoat like that. Isnt there only job to protect the Island?

The DI is not dropping food to Ben, but the whole group. Plus Ben is not really a part of the DI, he's becoming a Hostile.

Why would Widmore turn against the Hostiles, a group he once belonged too? Hmmm, maybe because he was tricked into leaving the Island. When he was talking to Locke, he sure seemed a tad disappointed he was "tricked" off of the Island. Plus, the DI has the Lamp Post station which can find the Island, something that Widmore wants to do.

These are previous posts that explain the possible connection between Widmore and Dharma.


The reason people think that Widmore is connected to the Dharma Initiative is because of his multiple corporate enterprises and the fact that in the book Bad Twin it was stated that the Widmore Group was involved in things described very similarly to what's going on with the Dharma Initiative on the island. That, and it just seems like something he would do.

Theories of old were Widmore Construction was contracted to build the stations. Websites show The Hanso Foundation which funded De Groots DI was part of the Widmore group along with Paik Industries.

Alvar and Charles had a falling out leading to Thomas Mittlewerk replacing Alvar, so their are connections upon which to base theories.

So it's a possibility that Widmore is somehow connected with the DI.

Christian Shephard is so working for the DI in Ann Arbor.


BTW, LSD was discovered/created by Albert Hofmann in Switzerland in 1938, though its psychedelic properties weren't discovered until 1943.

Christian Shephard is so working for the DI in Ann Arbor.

Yeah, they do have a prominent med school there and I wonder if he maybe studied and met DeGroot there back in the 60's.

Christian Shephard is so working for the DI in Ann Arbor.

Where did Christian Shephard get his medical degree? Any screen caps of his office walls?

There were a couple of odd things about that whole Workers Council scene, besides the omission of some you would have thought fairly important in the decision making process (particularly as it concerned an alleged future science project). Radzinsky forced the vote by threatening to call Ann Arbor (the implication being they would have backed terminal action). Was it the threat of merely getting Ann Arbor involved in an Island community decision, embarassment, or perhaps they were a bit hesitant to reveal that they had an ongoing hostiles problem (to new arrivals, they are described as troublesome natives, though in reality, with their various American and British accents, and generally Western dress sense, they don't exactly conform to the stereotypical South Pacific Islander, even allowing for cargo cults). And then Amy; it was a bit strange in her rather emotive plea to kill Sayid "we have to think about all the children"; well, if life is that dangerous in this science colony, why not evac the kids? Is this outburst an indication that the Hostiles have specifically targeted children before (Alex, Karl, possibly some of the other younger Hostiles?). Perhaps its also evidence of a carefully constructed smokescreen with Ann Arbor (an awful lot of "workmen" and janitors seem to be recruited for the DI, who's mission statement was "a large-scale communal research compound where scientists and free-thinkers from around the globe could pursue research in meteorology (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Meteorology), psychology (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Psychology), parapsychology (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Parapsychology), zoology (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Zoology), electromagnetism (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetism), and Utopian social-"), that enabled the Others to easily maintain the charade after the purge.