I have had my doubts about Amy and Paul since they were first introduced. Amy seemed a little too eager to "off" Sayid when they were trying to figure out what to do with him. Is it possible she knows the others and therefore knows Sayid is NOT an Other/Hostile?

Recall that she pulled the Ankh from Paul's neck before sending his body away with the Others. Why would they want or need his body anyway unless he was possibly one of them. Now Amy is gung ho to kill Sayid based solely on what she has heard. Personally, I would want to at least listen to him or see a video feed or anything other than other people's opinions before VOLUNTEERING to have someone killed.

Maybe this is just my warped Spidey senses going off again but does anybody else get the feeling Amy is somehow associated with the Others?

No, I wondered the same thing! Something has been fishy about her since we first met her.
But if she was with the Others, why would she want to have him killed? Maybe she knows,he's not an Other???

I don't find it too odd, afterall, it was the Hostiles who killed Paul, her husband. She obviously loved him very much because she still has the ankh and Horace and her got into an argument over it 3 years after the fact. So she is most likely still frightened of the hostiles, and now that she has a child, she wants to keep the baby safe. Now that doesn't mean there isn't more to it though.;)

Considering Ethan survived the purge somehow I think you guys might be onto something.

I too have suspected all along that she is a hostile. She knows Sayid is not a hostile. She also knows he is not part of Dharma. Remember how she treated sawyer and them when she brought them in. She knew they were neither hostile nor Dharma, just remember the look on her face when she removes the earplugs.

I have had my doubts about Amy and Paul since they were first introduced. Amy seemed a little too eager to "off" Sayid when they were trying to figure out what to do with him. Is it possible she knows the others and therefore knows Sayid is NOT an Other/Hostile?

Recall that she pulled the Ankh from Paul's neck before sending his body away with the Others. Why would they want or need his body anyway unless he was possibly one of them. Now Amy is gung ho to kill Sayid based solely on what she has heard. Personally, I would want to at least listen to him or see a video feed or anything other than other people's opinions before VOLUNTEERING to have someone killed.

Maybe this is just my warped Spidey senses going off again but does anybody else get the feeling Amy is somehow associated with the Others?

I don't think there was Other-ish conspiracy/malfeascance involved. It's as simple as this:

She's a woman and a new mother at that, and is making her decision on an emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

(Lest anyone accuse me of sexism here, the men are just as dumb because they so quickly acquiesce and go along with this. If Horace was running a tighter ship, Amy, as his wife, shouldn't have ever been there for that meeting. That's very poor leadership and a serious boundary violation.)

But back to Amy and her argument:

No appeals to logic and reason, just emotion. A "think of the children!" argument. I seriously laughed out loud at her brief statement, and then ended up shedding a tear on the inside when everyone else went along with it, because this is sadly how things usually go in real life, too.

If you disagree, try this: A fun drinking game is to watch any political convention or campaign speech, and drink everytime "the children" or "the future" or, better yet, "the future of our children" is mentioned.

You will be sloshed by the end.

I got that feeling as well. I hadn't bought the "Amy was going to defect to the Hostiles" theory until her vehemence about killing Sayid tonight. I really believe she will take Ethan and "defect" to the Hostiles before too much longer.

I don't think there was Other-ish conspiracy/malfeascance involved. It's as simple as this:

She's a woman and a new mother at that, and is making her decision on an emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

(Lest anyone accuse me of sexism here, the men are just as dumb because they so quickly acquiesce and go along with this. If Horace was running a tighter ship, Amy, as his wife, shouldn't have ever been there for that meeting. That's very poor leadership and a serious boundary violation.)

But back to Amy and her argument:

No appeals to logic and reason, just emotion. A "think of the children!" argument. I seriously laughed out loud at her brief statement, and then ended up shedding a tear on the inside when everyone else went along with it, because this is sadly how things usually go in real life, too.

If you disagree, try this: A fun drinking game is to watch any political convention or campaign speech, and drink everytime "the children" or "the future" or, better yet, "the future of our children" is mentioned.

You will be sloshed by the end.

You could be right. She is just not a very likeable character somehow....maybe that's why I'm suspicious of her. :undecide:
But I'm gonna trust my instincts and go with ... she's hiding something.

I got that feeling as well. I hadn't bought the "Amy was going to defect to the Hostiles" theory until her vehemence about killing Sayid tonight. I really believe she will take Ethan and "defect" to the Hostiles before too much longer.

Oooo... That would make a lot of sense. It would explain how Ethan ended up w/ The Others.

I'm thus not as certain about my last comment, that she was just being irrational, although that's still a possibility.

I don't find it too odd, afterall, it was the Hostiles who killed Paul, her husband. She obviously loved him very much because she still has the ankh and Horace and her got into an argument over it 3 years after the fact. So she is most likely still frightened of the hostiles, and now that she has a child, she wants to keep the baby safe. Now that doesn't mean there isn't more to it though.;)


We really don't know that she 'loved him'. Her marriage to him might be part of a cover and keeping the ankh might have been a signal for all we know.

Somehow Ethan became an Other. Its possible that they Hostiles took all the children out before the purge and raised them...

My spidey senses went off as soon as we met Amy with the bag on her head. Something is up with this one.

Also, I am on the fence with Paul. He may have been someone in the DI that the spy Amy fell in love with for real. Or, he may have been a spy as well, but unwilling to carry out orders and thus, he was killed.

I got that feeling as well. I hadn't bought the "Amy was going to defect to the Hostiles" theory until her vehemence about killing Sayid tonight. I really believe she will take Ethan and "defect" to the Hostiles before too much longer.

Agreed! And it will be at this point that she will change Ethan's (and her own?) suname from "Goodspeed" to "Rom". My only disagreement with your theory is that I believe that Amy and Paul have been Hostiles all along.

I have a much different view. I think it was to illustrate the Dharma people's basic brutality that's masquerading as a superior civilization. It's a statement about closed societies and how they will accept, condone, encourage summary execution without trial simply because the mob "thinks" he's a threat. We almost got there after 9/11 too. Having a symbol of "good", a new mother, say it, made it more stark.

I think she was an Other but defected. I think she wanted Sayid killed is because she knows he's not one of the group and just wants him gone. She's so a Hostile!

These are decent arguments for why she might be a Hostile, however, I assumed she's been acting funny for another reason.

I thought she was the only Dharma person to suspect Sawyer and his guys were not who they said they were. Amy was there when they showed up, knew too much about the sonic fence, and the Juliet (a mechanic to her) delivers her baby. Amy knows these guys are lying, but doesn't say anything because they saved her and her baby.

Why she's so anxious to kill Sayid? I dunno, probably the same reason as the other Dharma guys. Plus she's got a baby.

I think Amy could be the spy Radzinky is so worried about. although since she had a bag overhead and was about to be executed I get why she would have an axe to grind with the Hostiles.

Considering Ethan survived the purge somehow I think you guys might be onto something.

I was going to bring that up too. Her son Ethan will be a part of the Others someday so I think something is either going on now or something will go on. I too thought it was weird that she was so vocal and adamant about offing Sayid.

I also thought Amy and Paul were at one time hostiles and defected. But I also believe they were asked to do this by Widmore to act as double agents and feed intel back to him. This mission was so secret that Widmore didn't tell the other others for fear of their covers being compromised.

Evidentally there was a truce between the two sides that included not immediately killing those entering each others territory. I assume this is so a negotiation could take place that might include concessions or a prisoner exchange of some kind. But the others that captured Amy and Paul had no reservations about immediately executing them and I think this is because they viewed them as traitors and not worthy of the protection of the truce.

One more thing that might support this theory is that Paul had an ankh around his neck which would seem to indicate a religious affiliation with the others as opposed to Dharma. Horace knew this of Paul and that was why he was upset upon finding it among Amy's things. When Horace and Sawyer talked about "3 years to get over someone" I'm not so sure he was referring to Amy's love for Paul, but possibly Amy's love for her God...an Egyptian God, maybe Amun-Ra/Osiris/Horus.
100%
One more, I do believe Amy and Ethan are repatriated with the others simply because they are not DI. In 2004, there is a woman (who leads the book club) calld Amelia. Amy in 1977 looks to be about 30 or so, 27 years later in 2004 she would be 57-60, about the age Amelia appears to be.

Amy (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Amelia) :P

I'm going to out on another LOST tangent/limb here. I think Amy/Amelia is the daughter of Amelia Earhart. EA's plane went down in 1939 in the general location of the island location in the South Pacific.

Give her a few years to hook up (maybe with her navigator Fred Noonan) and her daughter would be born around 1945 and making "young" Amelia 32 in 1977.

Her twin engine Lockheed Electra was very close in look and design as the Beechcraft/drug plane. It's possible the Beechcraft was "recognized" by the island due to the previous event with EA and brought it down to the island similar to what happened to 815 and 316.

Pics of EA and "Amelia" are too similar to be a coincidence.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Amelia3x01.JPG

http://www.ameliaearhart.com/about/photos.html

I have had my doubts about Amy and Paul since they were first introduced. Amy seemed a little too eager to "off" Sayid when they were trying to figure out what to do with him. Is it possible she knows the others and therefore knows Sayid is NOT an Other/Hostile?

Recall that she pulled the Ankh from Paul's neck before sending his body away with the Others. Why would they want or need his body anyway unless he was possibly one of them. Now Amy is gung ho to kill Sayid based solely on what she has heard. Personally, I would want to at least listen to him or see a video feed or anything other than other people's opinions before VOLUNTEERING to have someone killed.

Maybe this is just my warped Spidey senses going off again but does anybody else get the feeling Amy is somehow associated with the Others?

i agree. she knows and wants sayid dead before he reveals too much.
goes back to those 'guesses' that little Ethan is not really Horace's son, but an Other's, perhaps even Alpert's. I also think they were there at the picnic scene to take Amy to the Others camp in the 1st place.

I think Amy is an other spy and she wanted Sayid offed cause she didn't have a clue to who he was and that it scared the hell out of her.

I think Amy is an other spy and she wanted Sayid offed cause she didn't have a clue to who he was and that it scared the hell out of her.

Yep, I totally agree.

I got that feeling as well. I hadn't bought the "Amy was going to defect to the Hostiles" theory until her vehemence about killing Sayid tonight. I really believe she will take Ethan and "defect" to the Hostiles before too much longer.


:eek2: This is brilliant! His appearance put a kink in her plans. Really like this!

My take on it is that Amy IS a hostile and is probably a spy. I also think that Radzinski is possible a spy for the following reasons...

Radzinski was overly obsessed with Sayid being a hostile spy don'tcha think? Which led me to believe that perhaps they have been having problems with infiltration, spies, information leaks, etc... So when Sayid shows up, even though Amy (and or Radzinski) would know hes not actually a hostile, they both demand that he be killed before they even get to properly interrogate him... They even appear to work together on it... well thats a good way to cover up your own "spy activities" isn't it?

First of all, say they kill Sayid and then afterwards find that a bunch of info had been leaked to the hostiles, then Amy and Radzinski can just sit there and point the finger at the dead guy. Bing bang bong, obviously he did it and look! Problem already taken care of.

Second of all... say the Dharma folks interrogated Sayid further and he keeps repeating the same stuff he said during the first interrogation and then even offers proof of it via prediciting future events (I don't know major political events or something like that) and eventually the dharma folks come to believe him. Well, he could spill the beans on a few things that the hostiles dont' want dharma to know about (purge and possibly who the real spies are) and in addition to that when it is uncovered that there is a mole in the house... they can no longer point the finger at him.

Yeah, I don't trust her either. Plus, Others having spies in the DHARMA camp makes perfect sense. How else did Richard get passed the security fence? Someone turned it off. Doesn't Amy know how to work the fence?

The only problem with the theory is that when the Losties saved Amy in 1974 and walked back towards Dhamaville, she only stunned them using the fence's defense (no pun intended). Maybe she was curious who they were, too.

That and she didn't want to have to schlep Paul's body back all by herself.

I have thought Amy was a hostile, but defected since she first appeared with Paul. Something didn't seem right about her. I think that Amy and Paul were spies, but then decided to defect to live a happy life in Dharmaville.

With this past episode, I kind of took her attitude to mean as if she wasn't too sure if Sayid was a hostile or not, almost as if she was once with the hostiles, but had not been in a while... When she says "I don’t know what he’s up to, but we can’t keep him here.” she seems genuinely confused.

Also, her plea to Horrace to off Sayid because of the children seemed odd. They find Sayid in the woods and she instantly thinks he is there to potentially harm children?

I took her concern to mean that she was concern for Ethan. The hostiles (others) have a history of taking children (e.g. Alex, Walt, Aaron (almost), and the taily kids from flight 815). Richard even confronts Ben in the woods.

If she is an ex-hostile then she would know about the children-snatching history and would have been scared that Sayid, who claimed he WAS a hostile, was there to take Ethan.....

If Amy is a Hostile, then Horace has to be involved in it. This it what he says to her in Lafleur:


HORACE: We've been friends for a long time, yeah? So this is completely your choice. If you don't want to give him to them, then we will suffer the consequences.


Horace says this to her in 1974, so they've been friends a long time before 1974 (which to me implies several years at least). Ben tells Sayid that he met Richard 4 years ago in 1977, so that would be in 1973. In TMBTC, when Ben arrives on the Island, Horace is talking with Ben's father:


HORACE: Hey, man, heard you ran into a little trouble.
ROGER: We're driving back from the Flame and we hear this huge explosion. Next thing I know, there's a siren wailing, and we're driving through the middle of a shootout.
HORACE: Look we're having some skirmishes with the natives.
ROGER: What do you mean, "natives"?
HORACE: Well, we're not exactly sure who they are.


So in 1973, the DI don't even know who the Natives are, don't refer to them as Hostiles and obviously don't have a truce with them. Horace I think would have to know Amy at this point since in 1974 he says "they've been friends for a long time". So how would a member of the Hostiles have been able to infiltrate the DI prior to this? I think anyone of the DI would be highly suspicious of people they don't know from off the Island. Plus, Horace didn't want Sawyer and the group joining the DI, and they had just shot 2 Hostiles, so they obviously weren't Hostiles themselves. So for Amy to be a member of the DI, and a long time friend of Horace's, I think she would have had to have come to the Island either with Horace, or as an already established member of the DI.

I think the only way that Amy could be a Hostile spy was if she was an off Island spy and joined up with the DI prior to coming to the Island and I just see that as unlikely. Not out of the realm of possibility, but just unlikely.

If Amy is a Hostile, then Horace has to be involved in it. This it what he says to her in Lafleur:



Horace says this to her in 1974, so they've been friends a long time before 1974 (which to me implies several years at least). Ben tells Sayid that he met Richard 4 years ago in 1977, so that would be in 1973. In TMBTC, when Ben arrives on the Island, Horace is talking with Ben's father:



So in 1973, the DI don't even know who the Natives are, don't refer to them as Hostiles and obviously don't have a truce with them. Horace I think would have to know Amy at this point since in 1974 he says "they've been friends for a long time". So how would a member of the Hostiles have been able to infiltrate the DI prior to this? I think anyone of the DI would be highly suspicious of people they don't know from off the Island. Plus, Horace didn't want Sawyer and the group joining the DI, and they had just shot 2 Hostiles, so they obviously weren't Hostiles themselves. So for Amy to be a member of the DI, and a long time friend of Horace's, I think she would have had to have come to the Island either with Horace, or as an already established member of the DI.

I think the only way that Amy could be a Hostile spy was if she was an off Island spy and joined up with the DI prior to coming to the Island and I just see that as unlikely. Not out of the realm of possibility, but just unlikely.

Wow, excellent points! Perhaps Amy isn't an ex-hostile at all, but perhaps maybe Paul? Perhaps if Amy has inside knowledge about the hostiles, it's only because she was married to Paul who is a defected hostile..

Maybe this is just my warped Spidey senses going off again but does anybody else get the feeling Amy is somehow associated with the Others?

i agree. something seems fishy, that little picnic between her and paul was more than we realize, i believe, because of that ankh that she took from him.