So I believe we all assumed that Ben's startled reaction when he woke up was due to the fact that Locke, who Ben stangled to death, was sitting in front of him. But I don't think Locke being alive is what solicited that reaction. I think Ben knew Locke's corpse would reanimate once they returned to the island. That is why he carted Locke's dead body around leading up to the Ajira flight. I believe Ben's reaction was due to something else. Somenthing that happened in the past.

While the Locke, Sawyer and Co were bouncing around in time, Faraday was able to relay info to future Desmond by speaking with his past self, and therefore implanting a "new" memory in future Dez's head. So whose to say this didn't happen with Ben? From a cinematic standpoint, the reaction of Ben that I am speaking of was shown after Richard took young Ben into the Temple. The title of this ep, "Whatever Happened, Happened", leads us to believe exactly what the title says. But what if that is to throw us off? It isn't like that would be the first time the LOST braintrust has done that. What if Dr. Douchebag... I mean Jack's decision NOT to save Ben didn't always happen? Wouldn't that make it necessary for course correction to find another way to accomplish it's grand plan? We have seen it happen before when Dez postponed Charlie's fate. Dez saving Charlie allowed the jamming signal to be stopped, which allowed the freighter folks to get to the island. So this timeline is different from that point forward.

So I think Ben's reaction upon awakening was actually him reacting to the new memory he has of Richard taking him to the temple. That is why Richard says he will never be the same. Because this CHANGES Ben. This event is different. I think this also shows us a little insight into what the island is. Faraday's "rules" for time travel are most likely true. But I think they are true OFF ISLAND. The island is the place where the timeline CAN be changed. The Island is the place that dictate's fate. Those who control the island can decide fate. That would make it pretty valuable, no?

Faraday's "rules" for time travel are most likely true. But I think they are true OFF ISLAND. The island is the place where the timeline CAN be changed. The Island is the place that dictate's fate. Those who control the island can decide fate. That would make it pretty valuable, no?
I really like that part. I have even thought about it myself several times.

You can only change the past if you change things that happened ON the island, and ONLY ON the island? Is that what you are trying to say?

I don't know if they can change the past on the island or not (I typically subscribe to "whatever happened, happened"), but if Ben's past could have been changed, then it could explain two things:

1) Why was he unconscious so long from being hit on the head with an oar? I mean, people get knocked out all the time on this show, yet he was unconscious long enough that someone had to find him and bring him to their sick bay...so maybe he wasn't unconscious from the blow. Maybe his life was in a sort of holding pattern since his past life was in danger (assuming, of course, that the past can change).

2) It would also add new meaning to Locke's greeting: "Welcome back to the land of the living."

As I said, I adhere to "WH,H." But IF the past can be changed, that makes those two elements more intriguing.

Yes Fierro, that is what I am saying. Time off of the island runs like a street, just like Faraday said. But on the island, we can have alternate time lines. I think the whispers are from people from other time lines.

Buckeye - that is a good point about Ben being knocked out for so long. I was wondering what was up with that myself.

Yes Fierro, that is what I am saying. Time off of the island runs like a street, just like Faraday said. But on the island, we can have alternate time lines. I think the whispers are from people from other time lines.

Buckeye - that is a good point about Ben being knocked out for so long. I was wondering what was up with that myself.
LOL. That is the basis of an old theory of mine called "The Circle'. Go check it out. I think you are gonna find it pretty interesting...;)


Here you go! The Circle (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=82356)

Yes Fierro, that is what I am saying. Time off of the island runs like a street, just like Faraday said. But on the island, we can have alternate time lines. I think the whispers are from people from other time lines.

Buckeye - that is a good point about Ben being knocked out for so long. I was wondering what was up with that myself.


I really like your idea Oz - it's almost like the Island is a train station of sorts, with a single track/timeline coming into it, but the Island itself has multiple "spokes" that eminate from the center..

Ben's astonishment and surprise when he woke up reminded me very much of when Desmond woke up with his new "memory" after talking with Faraday. I think something very similar happened to Ben, and he now remembers Alpert taking him to the Temple.

Locke's comment was intriguing as well - maybe now that Locke has died and been resurrected on the Island, he is "unstuck" in time and was able to see/know what Ben had just been thru?? That would definitely lend some weight to his "Welcome back to the land of the living" comment...

Wow Halcyon, nice analogy. And according to the blast door map, the structure of Dharma stations actually could look like a wheel with spokes. And obviously the frozen donkey wheel would fit right into that line of thinking.

And Ben's reaction being so similar to Desmond's was what got me thinking about this whole thing...

Wow Halcyon, nice analogy. And according to the blast door map, the structure of Dharma stations actually could look like a wheel with spokes. And obviously the frozen donkey wheel would fit right into that line of thinking.

And Ben's reaction being so similar to Desmond's was what got me thinking about this whole thing...


I also read the synopsis for this week's episode that was on the digital guide for my cable provider (those are the extent of the spoilers I allow myself :D LOL) and it says: "Ben needs to atone for his past sins, so he tries to summon the smoke monster to pass judgment"

Sounds like he gains some sort of knowledge that the people he's been manipulating and conning all this time are the ones responsible for his survival when he was a boy.... maybe??

There is no doubt Ben's reaction when he awoke was similar to Desmonds when he awoke on the boat after Faraday changed his "record".

This can only mean Ben had no memory of the losties in 1977 UNTIL they went back in time and created that memory which he didn't "absorb" until his own 2008 timeline.

Or I suppose maybe on the flip side of the argument that Ben's astonished look when he wakes up is because he has no idea who in the hell Locke is or where he is at?? Alpert did say that he (Ben) would "forget all of this" and "never be the same"... maybe when Ben woke up all surprised it wasn't because of his "new" memory, but because his lack thereof??