Ironically, Roger is right to be suspicious of Kate, because she was involved in Ben's disappearance.

But... Is his suspicion justified? (i.e. does he have good reason to suspect her?)

Is it realistic? (i.e., would someone similar to him, in real life, have the same suspicion?)

IMO the answer to both is no.

He doesn't have any good reason to suspect her. She's just being nice. So what. There could be any number of reasons for that.

Furthermore, IRL, I don't think he would suspect Kate.

Come on. Are we really to believe that a lonely, sex-starved, single father in his mid-40's would would be suspicious of the attention of a hot, gorgeous woman, because he's suspicious, for no good reason, that she may be involved in the diappearance of the son that he despises?

No chance. A man in his position would rationalize Kate's attention in any way possible to avoid the conclusion Roger came to, and thus alienate her.

So why did Roger accuse Kate of being involved in Ben's disappearance? Honestly, what basis does he have for this?

I agree with you. I think the writers just used this realization to speed up the plot...obviously, he will talk to Horace...I think Jack made it worse with his backing Kate up.

I didn't think it was out of the ordinary for Roger to think that Kate had a part in the disappearance of Ben. For a person who was very worried about Ben a couple of hours ago, leading to her donating her own blood to save him; she seems very calm walking up to Roger and saying that he would be OK.

So she was worried he was going to die...now he's missing and she's calm and optimistic that he's ok, a complete 180. I certainly don't think Roger is trying to get into Kate's pants and is thus making up accusations. I think he is certainly justified.

Kate was acting pretty odd if you ask me
If you saw a random woman you JUST met constantly hanging about your kid, over interested in your kid, wouldn't you think something was up?

Kate is **edited**
and after seeing Roger's reaction, I bet she is regretting ever helping Ben

I agree with you. I think the writers just used this realization to speed up the plot...obviously, he will talk to Horace...I think Jack made it worse with his backing Kate up.

I think Jack talking to him made it worse too. In Jack's discussion with Roger, less would have been more.

I think Jack talking to him made it worse too. In Jack's discussion with Roger, less would have been more.

I agree, I don't think that Jack made it any better. Less certainly would have been better.

I didn't think it was out of the ordinary for Roger to think that Kate had a part in the disappearance of Ben. For a person who was very worried about Ben a couple of hours ago, leading to her donating her own blood to save him; she seems very calm walking up to Roger and saying that he would be OK.

So she was worried he was going to die...now he's missing and she's calm and optimistic that he's ok, a complete 180. I certainly don't think Roger is trying to get into Kate's pants and is thus making up accusations. I think he is certainly justified.

To me, both of those things... Kate giving her blood, and giving Roger the "pep talk" are just indicative of a nice person, trying to be helpful.

I don't think Roger is trying to get into her pants by making up accusations either... I just think a man in his situation would relish the attention of an attractive woman, and would go out of his way to rationalize it... thus avoiding things like unjustified accusations... and as I mentioned above... I really don't see any justification for his accusations.

Kate was acting pretty odd if you ask me
If you saw a random woman you JUST met constantly hanging about your kid, over interested in your kid, wouldn't you think something was up?

Kate is **edited**
and after seeing Roger's reaction, I bet she is regretting ever helping Ben

I'm not a parent so I really can't say. I think I might be suspicious, maybe... but... Roger is making baseless accusations with a certain amount of certainty, as if he has specific reason to believe she's involved. And he doesn't have any good reason to believe that. As I said before, the irony is, in spite of this, he's right.

I don't know if I would be suspicious though. Maybe she's just a nice person with maternal leanings that felt bad cause she saw a kid get shot, and did what she did to help... Is that really that unusual?

To me, both of those things... Kate giving her blood, and giving Roger the "pep talk" are just indicative of a nice person, trying to be helpful.

I don't think Roger is trying to get into her pants by making up accusations either... I just think a man in his situation would relish the attention of an attractive woman, and would go out of his way to rationalize it... thus avoiding things like unjustified accusations... and as I mentioned above... I really don't see any justification for his accusations.

I understand what you are saying and there is absolutely wrong with your opinion, I'm just coming at it from another angle.

Seeing Kate was worried about a little boy who was just shot, leading to her blood donation. She was worried sick about him, in front of Roger. Now Ben just 'got up a vanished' and she is as calm as can be. That is why I think he was suspicious. Would you try to console a parent by saying that 'it's going to be OK?' Maybe....but I would be more inclined to tell him/her that we are going to go and find him right away, be more proactive. But she wasn't, she was unusually calm and I think that is what raised the red flag in Roger's eye.

From his pov I'm sure Kate came off as a total freak. Think about it... your son was just presumably kidnapped, then someone who hardly knows him and who was hanging around the "crime scene", tells you they have a "feeling" that you shouldn't give up hope.

Then there's the whole weird subconscious knowledge that you're talking to your future kin. ;)

I'm actually surprised that the other losties haven't been more suspicious of Kate's interest in Ben. I think there was a glimmer of suspicion in Jack when he learned of Kate's actions from Roger, but he quickly chalked it up to Kate's "heart being in the right place." Oooh, boy.

I understand what you are saying and there is absolutely wrong with your opinion, I'm just coming at it from another angle.

Seeing Kate was worried about a little boy who was just shot, leading to her blood donation. She was worried sick about him, in front of Roger. Now Ben just 'got up a vanished' and she is as calm as can be. That is why I think he was suspicious. Would you try to console a parent by saying that 'it's going to be OK?' Maybe....but I would be more inclined to tell him/her that we are going to go and find him right away, be more proactive. But she wasn't, she was unusually calm and I think that is what raised the red flag in Roger's eye.

Oh I definitely see what you're saying. But, how does he know Kate wasn't a nurse, or a school teacher, or something like that in her previous life? I.e., someone with nurturing instincts? Consoling someone by saying it will be ok, and trying to be a calming presence for them... that's not unusual at all. I just don't think it's something that would lead to suspicion.

Like I said before though, I'm not a parent, so that does likely make a difference. (Although, Roger's a shitty parent... I mean, does he honestly care about Ben at all? This really doesn't add up. Addictedfan is probably right, though, that they just needed to do this to speed up the plot.)

Yes, I think her less concerned/worried attitude post kidnapping was what made Roger question her interest in Ben. Jack certainly didn't help quell his fears or suspicions by acting the way he did.

However, since I love the idea of everyone having to leave Dharma finally, I'm okay with it. :biggrin:

I think he's right to be suspicious of her. She was worried about him and then she was calm and not worried when he was missing. If she was acting more worried and upset about him being missing, then he probably wouldn't accuse her of having something to do with it.

I thought she was suspicious, and I know that's partly because I know Kate, but I could see where he was coming from. I agree with those that say it was the way she tried to console him that was off. It wasn't her helping out that was suspicious...he totally bought that. It wasn't even when she came over and asked him how he was after his son mysteriously disappeared...when he should have been seen leaving and Roger knew that. It was when she started saying mysterious "I have a feeling." Not just, "don't give up hope" or "I'm sure things will turn out for the best"--just this zen "feeling" thing about a kid she supposedly never met and a shouldn't be as invested in as she seems to be. That combined with the fact that an outsider shouldn't have been able to penetrate DI-town, it would seem like she was suspicious to even someone like Roger.

I also agree Jack overdid it. He thinks he calmed Roger, but his defense of Kate was too passionate--he doth protest too much--and I could tell it only raised Roger's suspicions about both of them. He definitely went to go tell someone, probably Horace.

From his pov I'm sure Kate came off as a total freak. Think about it... your son was just presumably kidnapped, then someone who hardly knows him and who was hanging around the "crime scene", tells you they have a "feeling" that you shouldn't give up hope.

Then there's the whole weird subconscious knowledge that you're talking to your future kin. ;)

I'm actually surprised that the other losties haven't been more suspicious of Kate's interest in Ben. I think there was a glimmer of suspicion in Jack when he learned of Kate's actions from Roger, but he quickly chalked it up to Kate's "heart being in the right place." Oooh, boy.


:D I'm sitting here literally LMAO @ this entire conversation and you guys totally know why.

:15:

I think that Roger also dosen't have anyone else but Ben in that village. He's lonely, and deep down afraid of being left alone in that place, with his only connection to the woman he loved suddenly gone. Of course he's going to be freaking out. Combine that with being an alcoholic and all the paranoia that can go along with that...Then you've got this woman, who is new asking questions, and giving blood...and the fear of the hostiles. It's a powder keg waiting to happen (no pun intended).

To me, both of those things... Kate giving her blood, and giving Roger the "pep talk" are just indicative of a nice person, trying to be helpful.

I think she would be less suspicious to him if she had said she had a son too, who she lost. Wouldn't be a lie and it would make sense of all of her actions towards Ben.

I can understand Roger questioning Kate..She has seemed very eager to help his son, some kid that she supposedly doesn't even know. Plus, Roger's a drunk..seems like an angry drunk at that. So, he's drunk and he's worried about his kid, this strange lady is all up in his business, kid goes missing and she is all non-chalant about it..I can see why he had the reaction that he did.

The first thing I said when he went in the classroom to clean and Jack was there was, "Jack keep your freaking mouth shut..don't blow it"...so of course Jack opens his bigmouth. Does he think before doing things? Don't go getting up in the face of the already suspicious guy and start telling him that you are friends with this girl that he is suspicious of, when the two of you are supposed to just be 2 new random Dharma recruits. Play it cool Jack...then again playing it cool has never really been Jack's speciality

She never should have brought it up again with him. The whole thing was kind of underplayed. Why wouldn't he go out to search himself ala Michael if he were that concerned over the kid? Frankly, the whole village should be aware that Roger is a child abuser, and they don't ever go there. With all those cameras around, who has secrets?

I think Roger looking for a scapegoat is true to form. Roger likes to blame others for things that are beyond his control. And he holds a grudge. Look at how he blamed Ben for his mother's death for 30 years. Roger will try to put this on Kate because he needs to blame someone. Kate should have just left him alone, but I think she was too emotionally involved to see that.

I think Roger looking for a scapegoat is true to form. Roger likes to blame others for things that are beyond his control. And he holds a grudge. Look at how he blamed Ben for his mother's death for 30 years. Roger will try to put this on Kate because he needs to blame someone. Kate should have just left him alone, but I think she was too emotionally involved to see that.

That's a great analysis. I think she was suspicious, but even if she wasn't, Roger is the kind of person who needs to find someone other than himself to blame.

I think the problem is you're thinking Roger is a guy who can rationalize normally.

He can't.

He's a drunk and the low guy on the Totem Pole in a group of scientists who probably treat him like, well, a janitor.
He's not the sharpest crayon, he does a job he hates and he drinks a 6 pack like most of us would drink a glass.
I can see his paranoia clearly. He's clearly a guy who can see hot Kate wouldn't hit on him and she's being weird. It's not like they have TV to watch or a library where he would read (if at all), so he pretty much has nothing else to do but brood and think about it.

I'm with you, Poser. The guy has developed a little world for himself believing that everyone around him is screwing him in some way. He's just power downed at least three beers. And somehow, his kid, on Death's Door, has disappeared and the person who was responsible for his child is just standing in the medical ward. He's hypersensitive.

In any normal situation, if I knew somebody's child had disappeared, I would say almost the same thing. "I have a feeling everything is going to be fine." It's just what you say to someone in this situation. But the plot needs to be pushed forward, and this whole Dharma thing has run it's course anyway. It has been incredibly lame.

I think Roger looking for a scapegoat is true to form. Roger likes to blame others for things that are beyond his control. And he holds a grudge. Look at how he blamed Ben for his mother's death for 30 years. Roger will try to put this on Kate because he needs to blame someone. Kate should have just left him alone, but I think she was too emotionally involved to see that.

Great point - Roger is a man who will blame everyone outside of himself for what happens - not that this particular incident was his fault, but he created the environment that made Ben want to run away.
Kate shouldn't have approached him in the first place. Her sympathetic side got going and like Sawyer said, "where was her head?". She's trying to work through the guilt and loss of Aaron by latching on to boy Ben (the irony just compounds here) and now we can see why earlier scenes had Kate all chummy with Roger, to set up her going to him and trying to reassure him that Ben would be OK. That sets in motion the suspicion that will probably bring their Dharma involvement tumbling down.

Even though alcoholics are usually very paranoid, Kate was acting strangely. She just arrived, people! Anyone would at least wonder what's up with her. Maybe, if she had said to Roger that she had a child back on the mainland, he would've understood her 'thing' for little Ben.

Roger is also the type of person who looks for the worst in people, and is suspicious of anyone being "nice" because it is so foreign to his own nature. He frames everyone's actions from his own paranoia and distrust of the world and can't believe Kate would just ask out of the goodness of her heart. He is looking to divert any scrutiny aimed toward him and his relationship with Ben outward. And it does move the plot along conveniently!

Alcoholics are experts at being the victim in any situation. Jack only made the situation worse by making Roger suspicious of him, too. I, too, was screaming silently at Jack to SHUT UP and just let him talk himself out of it. If Jack had just shrugged his shoulders and played it down as Kate just being new, Roger might have brushed it off.

Kate was acting pretty odd if you ask me
If you saw a random woman you JUST met constantly hanging about your kid, over interested in your kid, wouldn't you think something was up?

...

Agree that Kate's over-concern, followed by her seeming lack of concern at Ben's being kidnapped, make her seem suspicious.

I think Jack talking to him made it worse too. In Jack's discussion with Roger, less would have been more.

Also agree.

That's a great analysis. I think she was suspicious, but even if she wasn't, Roger is the kind of person who needs to find someone other than himself to blame.

Totally agree here as well.

Even though alcoholics are usually very paranoid, Kate was acting strangely. She just arrived, people! Anyone would at least wonder what's up with her. Maybe, if she had said to Roger that she had a child back on the mainland, he would've understood her 'thing' for little Ben.

What the heck has happened to Kate? Has her experience mothering Aaron made her so invested in little Ben that she can't keep her cool in a very dangerous situation? This is the woman who orchestrated her father's immolation, a bank robbery, marriage to a cop and a worldwide flight from the police, the woman of a thousand names, who can't manage to just keep a low profile and blend in in Dharmaville? Sawyer's "Where was her head" is right indeed!!! :confused::confused::confused:

Roger is also the type of person who looks for the worst in people, and is suspicious of anyone being "nice" because it is so foreign to his own nature. He frames everyone's actions from his own paranoia and distrust of the world and can't believe Kate would just ask out of the goodness of her heart. He is looking to divert any scrutiny aimed toward him and his relationship with Ben outward. And it does move the plot along conveniently!

Alcoholics are experts at being the victim in any situation. Jack only made the situation worse by making Roger suspicious of him, too. I, too, was screaming silently at Jack to SHUT UP and just let him talk himself out of it. If Jack had just shrugged his shoulders and played it down as Kate just being new, Roger might have brushed it off.

Exactly--it's actually a classic LOST example of POV, really. Roger's POV is to think the worst of people and try to blame anyone other than himself. Earlier when Kate was donating blood he was kind of like "What do you get out of this?," as if caring about a kid needs some selfish motive.

I'm sure Roger is going to run straight to Horace between Kate and Jack. Then we have the mess up with the tape that Miles made that lead Phil to James and Juliet...oops. Miles and Hurley haven't been keeping a low profile either...all the groundwork is being laid down for this all to fall to pieces.

Edit to add: I crossposted with mmpd. Some of us think Kate and Ben have some sort of a connection that LOST hasn't revealed to us yet...that might be why she is so concerned about little Ben.

Exactly--it's actually a classic LOST example of POV, really. Roger's POV is to think the worst of people and try to blame anyone other than himself. Earlier when Kate was donating blood he was kind of like "What do you get out of this?," as if caring about a kid needs some selfish motive.

I'm sure Roger is going to run straight to Horace between Kate and Jack. Then we have the mess up with the tape that Miles made that lead Phil to James and Juliet...oops. Miles and Hurley haven't been keeping a low profile either...all the groundwork is being laid down for this all to fall to pieces.

Edit to add: I crossposted with mmpd. Some of us think Kate and Ben have some sort of a connection that LOST hasn't revealed to us yet...that might be why she is so concerned about little Ben.

^^^ Yes very much so in fact. I agree completely...He'll run to Horace (and might not even be taken seriously to boot).