I was talking about this in another thread, and decided it probably warranted its own title. We've see the Island's main settlement go through a number of transformations over the years. Here is my take on this, although I am completely open to other
suggestions, and I readily admit that I may be wrong on some things, so feel free to comment or add to this. This list is chronological by normal date reckoning:

Phase One: Statue Builder Site - prehistorical
- This is completely a conjecture that there would have been some kind of settlement on this site in the dim past, but it is based on the existence of the Smokey-summoning underground room with the hieroglyphs on its door that later becomes incorporated into Ben's house. It seems likely that, since there was such a structure located in that place, that there would have also been some kind of a settlement there as well. However, this is entirely a guess, since we've not been shown anything at all to substantiate it.
- At this point we know almost nothing about what kind of community this would have been, or what kind of society would have lived in it. We don't even know enough to make guesses about it, other than they appeared to have had access to some kind of technology that no longer exists (example: Smokey), and that they may have had a religious hierarchy associated with them.

Phase Two: Temporary Military Camp - circa 1953/1954
- We haven't (yet) seen this version of the settlement yet, but it is fairly likely that the U.S. Army set up their camp (and their Army-Issue Green Khaki Tents) right where we do see them after the Hostiles have purged the soldiers off the Island, and are living in the tents they left behind.
- The photograph (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=123897&fullsize=1) that is on Ms. Hawking's chalkboard shows a sheltered bay with a river valley going up in to the hills behind it. My guess is that this is an Army/Intelligence photo that shows the landing site that the military used to transport material onto the Island from ships. My second guess is that this then later became the site where the submarine dock was built. If so, then this would be strong evidence to suggest that the Army constructed their tent settlement up that valley right at the place where we later see Richard and the Hostiles residing in them.
- The U.S. Army only occupied this site for a very short period of time.

Phase Three: Hostile Settlement - circa 1954 to ???
- In "Jughead" we saw the Hostiles living in the Army tents at the location. However, when DHARMA arrives on the Island in the 1970s, the Hostiles no longer live there. Indeed, they no longer are even using the Army tents, but instead are living in yurts somewhere else (probably in the general vicinity - I'm guessing - of the entrance to the Temple, since that's where Sawyer and Kate encounter them when bringing young Ben to them). So I'm not sure when the Hostiles STOPPED living at this site, but the were gone by the time (in 1974) when our time travelers show up.
- Apparently the Hostiles live in what I would call a Tribal society. They have very clear roles for various members (Richard, Ellie, and Charles each seem to have a very definite role). They live off of the food they gather from the wild on the Island, apparently (although this is not for certain). They also have some outside contact, it seems, since they manage to obtain weapons, clothing, and tools that are off-Island in origin.

Phase Four: Dharmaville - circa early 1970s to December 1992
- It isn't at this point entirely clear just exactly when DHARMA first came to the Island. We do know that DHARMA was founded in the year 1970 in Ann Arbor, Michigan, by the DeGroots. But it was some time after that when DHARMA actually made it to the Island. However, by 1974, when our time travelers arrive - DHARMA had made it to the Island, and they had already constructed quite a number of buildings on this settlement location, as well as begun on some of the other stations scattered around the Island, where they expected to begin some of their experiments.
- Why DHARMA chose to locate their main settlement on this precise site is uncertain, but my guess is that it was for the same reasons that the U.S. Army chose it as a site for their camp: 1) it is close to the harbor where the submarine dock is built, and 2) perhaps the area was still cleared land (meaning the jungle hadn't reclaimed it yet) from when the Army used it.
- Dharmaville was run on a Socialist framework:
- All the facilities were owned by the DHARMA Initiative, not by individual members.
- Food, clothing, and other necessities were provided by the DI for free. Meals were served communally in the Mess Hall (although individuals could prepare their own meals in their own quarters). Medical care was free, as was education.
- I'm not sure whether there was actually any pay for work rendered - I haven't seen any indication that money was used in any way at all within the Dharmaville community.
- Penalties for misconduct included being sent to work at less desirable jobs, as well as having a lockup holding cell located in the basement of the Security building. What happened to people who ended up in that holding cell is unclear - perhaps they were kept there until the next submarine could escort them off the Island.
- Status within the society was based primarily on the job that a particular member had - not on personal wealth. However, status was also confered on anyone who seemed to have access to direct communication with the off-Island DHARMA administrators. Motherhood was not given any unusual status among DHARMA society at this time, from what I can gather.
- Everyone dressed in uniforms that prevented anyone from using fashion to give them higher status.
- Jobs were given to people as a result based partly on their individual talents, but also on the needs of the community.
- I'm not sure whether status was attached to different housing facilities. It seems as if married couples were given an entire house to themselves, but maybe I'm wrong about that - there may be couples who did not have their own house. Although outwardly all the Dharmaville houses look alike, there may have been some higher status attached to some of these than to others. This is a little unclear to me...
- Decisions were made by consensus. However, absolute consensus was not required. Also, many decisions were made by executive fiat - if someone could convince other DHARMA members that he (or she) had the authority to make a particular decision, then this was all that was needed to justify the decision.
- Within the DHARMA community there were sub-groups, although the existence of these sub-groups seems to have come as a shock to Chang. Each of these sub-groups existed in relative secrecy - the members were reluctant to let outsiders know of their existence. The most notable of these is the sub-group of the time travelers, but there was also Horace's "Circle of Trust", the various work groups associated with the development and construction of different "secret" DHARMA stations, the sub-group associated with LaFleur's Security corps, etc.

Phase Five: Otherville - circa 1992 to December 2004
- After the Purge (December 1992), the Hostiles took up residence in Dharmaville, and it becomes "Otherville" as the Hostiles become the Others - although this is not what they would call themselves, of course. They referred to this settlement simply as "The Barracks".
- For reasons not entirely clear at this point, the Others resumed some of the experiments that the DHARMA Initiative people had started.
- The Others somehow received DHARMA supplies on a regular basis - whether these were airdrops or were brought in by submarine is unclear. We do know that the airdrops occurred near the Swan station - but we haven't been shown conclusively that they also took place near Otherville.
- The Others used the submarine to travel off-Island.
- The Others took over Dharmaville (in other words, the Purge happened) BEFORE they'd kicked Charles Widmore off the Island.
- Ben was given the house that had access to Smokey's "toilet".
- Because we are not entirely clear about exactly what kind of society the Hostiles had before the Purge, we can only make guesses as to how their society changed after they moved into the DHARMA houses. However, it seems as if their society did have some changes. I believe they took on more of a Socialist and less of a Tribal model.
- The Others kept some of the DHARMA traditions after moving in: they served communal meals in the Mess Hall, while still allowing individuals to prepare their own meals in their own homes. They shared resources. Nobody seems to have been paid in cash for anything, etc.
- Although they used some of the DHARMA stations around the Island, they seem to have allowed these other locations to more or less fall into disrepair, except for their own houses and buildings in this main settlement, which were maintained at a very "suburban" feel.
- The Others leave Otherville on the 11th of December, 2004.

Phase Six: Temporary Refuge for Flight 815ers - circa December 2004
- Some of the Losties take up temporary residence in Otherville after it is abandoned by the Others. This is where the Freighties are taken, as well as Ben, who arrives after Keamy's mercenaries have arrived on the Island. This is where Alex is killed.

Phase Seven: Ghost Town
- The settlement is abandoned by everyone (except, apparently Christian), and starts to fall apart due to neglect and the ravages of the jungle. Lapidus and Sun arrive in 2007 to find a dilapidated, abandoned, ghost town.


So, if anyone has any comments, theories, or corrections, please feel free to post.

well,
all i have to say is 'well done'
i think you pretty much summed it up.

well,
all i have to say is 'well done'
i think you pretty much summed it up.
Thanks, but I'm still a little unsure about some of that stuff. For instance, I'm not entirely sure that there was an actual settlement there during the "Phase One" period. Maybe the "Smokey toilet" that was in Ben's secret closet was constructed by Richard or someone else after the Others had moved into the settlement, post Purge. I think it is fairly likely that Richard knows and can read the hieroglyphs on the temple and such. However, Smokey's Summoning Chamber does seem to have the look of "time" on it...

It seems as though the Others live a nomadic lifestyle unless they can usurp other dwellings. Why haven't they ever built a more permanent place for themselves? Why the roving? Did Richard ever live in Dharma/Otherville? If not, why not? Were there other Others that didn't live in Dharmaville after the purge? Is there a difference between "natives" and assimilated others?

Kudos on the data you've gathered here -- very thoughtful!

The only thing I'd add would be a "Phase 5A" to represent the tent/tribal community that Walt stayed in when he was visiting with Bea & Friends.

I know at the time, most of us thought it was just a ruse to keep the 815ers from knowing the Others were techno-savvy, but who knows? Maybe there was a faction of the Others that preferred old-school tribal dwelling.

It seems as though the Others live a nomadic lifestyle unless they can usurp other dwellings. Why haven't they ever built a more permanent place for themselves? Why the roving?

Perhaps they didn't construct a permanent settlement in an attemp to avoid having a lasting impact on a certain area of the island. By moving around they would have limited impact on any area they stay in. Constructing a settlement usually implies changes to the surrounding environment. This brings up the DI, though, because they were oviously granted permission to set up. Either that or they sent armed forces to the island to keep the natives at bay. I suppose either are possible, but if the DI was allowed to set up, it could have been decided by the island/Jacob. Even when Ben was the apparent leader, he told John that "everyone answers to someone."

There were issues from the beginning and there's been comments about silly experiments and whatnot, so the DI definitely weren't a welcome addition. It may have been in the best interest of the island for them to be there for a while. Maybe that is why Richard told Ben he had to wait and the Purge didn't happen until 1992. If the DI had armed forces that ensured their settling on the island, I don't know why the Others would have waited so long to take real action.

Did Richard ever live in Dharma/Otherville? If not, why not? Were there other Others that didn't live in Dharmaville after the purge? Is there a difference between "natives" and assimilated others?

I'm not sure if I think he did or not, but he was quick to respond when Kate and Sayid were found in the Barracks, and then captured. He went to Ben's house with Tom to ask what to do, so he was either close by (at night), or he is living in one of the houses. I wouldn't doubt that some of them don't live at the Barracks, though, since there was a big enough group to confront the A-Team when they went looking for Michael. There were either that many people already in the jungle, or a few people from the jungle gathered the rest from the Barracks.

In Season 2 there were some Others that had shaggy clothing and no shoes, including children who seemed to be Zack and Emma. I'm sure they didn't send a small group of people to surprise Eko and Jin and then just walk by pretending they weren't in the bushes. Perhaps they rotate who does and doesnt because the kids were later seen at the Hydra in normal dress. Of course, the group, including the kids, could have been sent to take Cindy from the Tailies who were crossing the island to the other survivors. It's possible that they were only going for Cindy and the kids were there to make her agree to go.

Very good! Thanks for doing this. One thing to add is that I believe that the DI were paid or will be paid at the end of their "term of service". In one of the recent episodes - Ben's father tells Horace that he will need more money - I believe he asks for 30,000 more and says something like "don't tell me you don't have it".

So you're saying that the location of the army camp is where the Barracks was also built? Well, I went on that notion and went back and watched the scenes in Jughead to see if I could spot anything. Didn't come up with anything definitive, but I noticed they did alot of panaramic shots and shots that half circled around people so that the surrounding mountains were shown quite a bit. May be a hint towards what you're saying. I didn't have the energy to pull out all the shots from previous seasons from the perspective of New Otherton to try and pinpoint things.

However, all that said, it would be interesting in regards to the final resting place of Jughead itself if it is the same location. One would assume they wouldn't transport it that far from where the army had it on that platform. And that would place Jughead near the Dharmaville. Where one of our losties could find it in the 70s, perhaps?

In a recent podcast Damon said something that could be a HUGE spoiler. Read at your own risk.

He said, "trashcan man" in response to a question about jughead. If you are familiar with The Stand, this has some pretty epic potential.

Kudos on the data you've gathered here -- very thoughtful!

The only thing I'd add would be a "Phase 5A" to represent the tent/tribal community that Walt stayed in when he was visiting with Bea & Friends.

I know at the time, most of us thought it was just a ruse to keep the 815ers from knowing the Others were techno-savvy, but who knows? Maybe there was a faction of the Others that preferred old-school tribal dwelling.
The "primitive village" where Michael stayed when he was a captive of the Others is located in a very different part of the Island than where Dharmaville/Otherville/The Barracks lies. For the purposes of my analysis, I was concentrating on the major settlement. I have heard theories put out there that the primitive village was actually just a ruse that the Others used to con the Losties into thinking that they were just a bunch of "natives" - it sort of went along with the whole fake beard and hillbilly costumes they'd wear when they knew they'd be confronting the Losties.

But maybe you're onto something - maybe the primitive village actually was inhabited by some of the Others at times.
100%
So you're saying that the location of the army camp is where the Barracks was also built? Well, I went on that notion and went back and watched the scenes in Jughead to see if I could spot anything. Didn't come up with anything definitive, but I noticed they did alot of panaramic shots and shots that half circled around people so that the surrounding mountains were shown quite a bit. May be a hint towards what you're saying. I didn't have the energy to pull out all the shots from previous seasons from the perspective of New Otherton to try and pinpoint things.
One of the problems I have when watching Lost is that I used to live on Oahu, and I know most of the places where they're filming different scenes very well. One of these places is the valley behind Kaaawa on the Windward Side of the Island, and this is where a huge amount of Lost gets filmed, including the Barracks/Dharmaville village, and the Army camp. In other words, the same general location has been used by the production team to film both of these places in the series.

So the problem comes up when I try to analyze things like this, and I can't help but subconsciously jump to conclusions that, since I know precisely where these places are located on Oahu, that when I see two sets that are located at the same location, that it must mean that they are also at the same location on The Island in the show. So, because they filmed the Army camp at the same place behind Kaaawa as they filmed the Barracks/Dharmaville, I just assumed that they must have been at the same place on Craphole Island.

But as you pointed out, this doesn't necessarily equate.

However, as I outlined in the o.p., I do think there are reasons why DHARMA would have chosen the old Army camp site to construct their main settlement.
100%
Very good! Thanks for doing this. One thing to add is that I believe that the DI were paid or will be paid at the end of their "term of service". In one of the recent episodes - Ben's father tells Horace that he will need more money - I believe he asks for 30,000 more and says something like "don't tell me you don't have it".
Great catch. I seem to vaguely recall that conversation. Wow, I wonder what episode it was in so we could find the transcript. However, I still don't know whether this would mean that money was being used on the Island as a means of exchange. It seems to me that Dharmaville operates on a completely cash-free economy.

Phase Seven: Ghost Town
- The settlement is abandoned by everyone (except, apparently Christian), and starts to fall apart due to neglect and the ravages of the jungle. Lapidus and Sun arrive in 2007 to find a dilapidated, abandoned, ghost town.

this just made me think of what exactly is going on in 2007. Where are the Others? why have they not returned to the barracks?

just thinking out loud.

this just made me think of what exactly is going on in 2007. Where are the Others? why have they not returned to the barracks?

just thinking out loud.
Yeah, I've been wondering that too. Maybe we'll get to see 2007 Richard soon...

great work on the timeline!

SO bens house is the one with smokeys drain - this was once Horaces house if im not mistaken. That instantly gives Horaces' circle of trust statement much more weight.

great work on the timeline!

SO bens house is the one with smokeys drain - this was once Horaces house if im not mistaken. That instantly gives Horaces' circle of trust statement much more weight.
I probably missed something, but I don't recall that being completely made certain that Ben's house was also Horace's. Does someone have some solid evidence to show this? I'd be interested in knowing for sure who's house from Dharmaville ended up being Ben's...

Dont remember where I heard that(maybe just some chatter on here), but in any case SOMEONE must have lived there, and they were privy to vital information. Ben took the house with 2 stories- so Horace seems like a good option. Either way, the others must have had insiders in Dharma.

Either way, the others must have had insiders in Dharma.

Wait, why do you say this?

I have a few reasons..but the one i just was talking about was that Bens house led to smokeys drain, and someone must have lived in that house before the Hostiles took over.

Phase Seven: Ghost Town
- The settlement is abandoned by everyone (except, apparently Christian), and starts to fall apart due to neglect and the ravages of the jungle. Lapidus and Sun arrive in 2007 to find a dilapidated, abandoned, ghost town.



very detailed awesome post.

but we're not sure Christian lived in Dharmaville. He might have traveled here to meet up with Frank and Sun just as Richard traveled to the Beechcraft to meet up with Locke.

Great work, Sauk! I also think Christian made a trip to Ghost Town to meet Sun and Frank, and guide them.

very detailed awesome post.

but we're not sure Christian lived in Dharmaville. He might have traveled here to meet up with Frank and Sun just as Richard traveled to the Beechcraft to meet up with Locke.
Yes, I agree. We don't know where Christian lives, or even if he does live anywhere, or if he even lives, even. I was just sorta joking about Christian living in the ghost town, since, well, maybe Christian might be a ghost himself...
100%
Dont remember where I heard that(maybe just some chatter on here), but in any case SOMEONE must have lived there, and they were privy to vital information. Ben took the house with 2 stories- so Horace seems like a good option. Either way, the others must have had insiders in Dharma.
I agree with your take on this, HH. However, at this point, we're still just guessing. Here's what we know for sure about Ben's secret closet/Smokey summoning chamber:

1) It exists in Ben's house circa 2004.
2) It exists in Ben's house circa 2007.
3) It looks old, but looks can be deceiving.
4) It has hieroglyphs like we see on the Temple.
5) It summons Smokey, who lives in the Temple.
6) The Temple exists in 1977, but we don't know how long before that when it was built.

What we don't know for sure:

1) How old the Temple is.
2) How old the door to Smokey's summoning chamber in Ben's house is (the Others could have built it after moving into Otherville).
3) Whether Ben's house was around in 1977 (the Others could have built it later).
4) How long Smokey has been around.

So, although we can guess that Smokey's summoning chamber existed before Dharmaville was built, and we can also guess that it was incorporated into one of the Dharmaville houses, and we can further guess that it would have been a house where one of the main administrators lived, in the end all we can really do at this point is just guess, since we haven't been shown enough information to allow us to make an empirical judgement on this subject.

However, having said that, it does seem that TPTB want us to believe that Smokey's summoning chamber is OLD - I mean, the door with all the hieroglyphs looks like it ought to be old, and that's probably what it means - that the summoning chamber has been around for a long time.

So, if that is indeed true (but remember this is just conjecture still), then it would be strong evidence to indicate that there had indeed been a settlement on the same site as the Barracks/Dharmaville/Otherville dating back in time to when the early Statue/Temple building people were around.

^ I thought you might be joking, but sometimes on here it's hard to tell.

dont forget, about the temple, we know it was there in 1988 when Rousseau's team had found it with Jin.

^ I thought you might be joking, but sometimes on here it's hard to tell.
I guess I forgot to insert the [/joking_mode] tag at the end. :biggrin:
dont forget, about the temple, we know it was there in 1988 when Rousseau's team had found it with Jin.
Good point. It helps bridge the time between 1977 and 2004 to show the temple still was there.

i agree saukk - lots of guess work to be done. Still stuck in wait and see mode. Also interesting to note that when Dharma built the Barracks, the Hostiles somehow allowed this to go on. What exactly are the terms of their truce, and does it date back to the very beginning of island Dharma?

i agree saukk - lots of guess work to be done. Still stuck in wait and see mode. Also interesting to note that when Dharma built the Barracks, the Hostiles somehow allowed this to go on. What exactly are the terms of their truce, and does it date back to the very beginning of island Dharma?
Maybe it has something to do with Widmore. At the time that DHARMA showed up, Widmore was in charge of the Hostiles. Did he make a deal with DHARMA? Was this how he managed to acquire so much wealth in so short a time after he got kicked off the Island in the early 1990s?

Maybe it has something to do with Widmore. At the time that DHARMA showed up, Widmore was in charge of the Hostiles. Did he make a deal with DHARMA? Was this how he managed to acquire so much wealth in so short a time after he got kicked off the Island in the early 1990s?
widmore is my first guess- mainly because he is in charge and he was also traveling off island. Richard must have some say, but maybe he didnt get his way until the purge. Hopefully they give us some background into this.

It is my guess, and I could certainly be completely wrong, that the house with the Smokey summoner was the residence of Pierre Chang. Although Horace is the chief administrator, I doubt that he takes presidence over the top scientist. Pierre seemed to have a great deal of distain for adminstration when he interviewed Jack. Whether Pierre knows what he's living on top of is another question.

I also believe that Charles Widmore began to acquire his vast wealth during his trips off-island which Ben refers to in Dead is Dead. I don't pretend to know how he did it. Whether with or without time travel, but he must have used knowledge he gleaned while on the island to make some wise investments.

It is my guess, and I could certainly be completely wrong, that the house with the Smokey summoner was the residence of Pierre Chang. Although Horace is the chief administrator, I doubt that he takes presidence over the top scientist. Pierre seemed to have a great deal of distain for adminstration when he interviewed Jack. Whether Pierre knows what he's living on top of is another question.

your guess is as good as mine. I think Pierre is a good possibility, since he knows about the wheel as well. Horace mentioning the circle of trust this week just adds more suspicion to his character, which is why he is currently at the top of my list as a Hostile insider. I could be wrong, but this is just a gut feeling based on some things weve seen

While rewatching Jughead, I noticed a weird pile of rocks (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=122095&fullsize=1) on the site where the army camp was before Locke and the gang flashed away. As the camera pans around it's more noticeable than in that still picture mainly because there doesn't appear to be any other rocks like that in that field. And that pile looks to be something that was purposefully put there.

So I'm thinking that if you are right, and that this is the same site as the original ancients, the army camp, and then Dharmaville, then perhaps that pile of rocks was there to hide the entrance that Ben later has under his house.

So I'm thinking that if you are right, and that this is the same site as the original ancients, the army camp, and then Dharmaville, then perhaps that pile of rocks was there to hide the entrance that Ben later has under his house.
Wow! Great catch, Roy! I mean, like WOW! That pile of rocks sure does look like it could be the entrance to some kind of underground chamber. Cool!

Ok, Sauk... What the heck? I've been waiting for you or someone else to comment on this since Follow the Leader because, on first viewing, I immediately thought of your thread! If anything so far has proven your theory right, FTL was HUGE! So... what gives?
:confused::drowsy::biggrin:


Anyway, just to bring it home, here's the facts:
- We know that Jughead wasn't that far from the army camp
- We know it was quite heavy. RICHARD: It's a 12-foot long, 40,000-pound hydrogen bomb. No, not through the pool.
- So it's pretty safe to assume that the Others aren't going to move it far from the platform we saw in Jughead.
- But just in case we need to be hit over the head with it, Eloise says

ELOISE: All right then, I'll take you to the bomb. Just... one small issue, however. We secured it over 20 years ago underground. But since that time, it appears that someone's built an entire village over it.
JACK: The DHARMA Initiative?


I don't know how you came up with this prior to these episodes (/peer - Lost insider maybe?), but You Da' Man!
:clapping:

I don't know how you came up with this prior to these episodes (/peer - Lost insider maybe?), but You Da' Man!
Wow, well, thanks, Roy, for the compliment. But you had some great insights there, too! I really didn't get this from any spoiler site.

I surmised that the Army camp had been on the same spot as Dharmaville based on a logical assumption that the camp would have been located close to where the Army had come ashore with their amphibious landing parties in preparation for setting up the hydrogen bomb test.

I saw the photograph of the Island that apparently Eloise stuck to the blackboard in the Looking Glass site in Los Angeles, and it shows what appeared to be a landing spot with a valley stretching up behind it. I assumed that this would have been where the Army had landed its equipment. The photo also shows that there wasn't a lot of room there next to the beach landing, and so I assumed that they'd have built their camp up that valley.

And this precisely matches what is taking place with Dharmaville: the Submarine Dock is located in a spot where there is not room for development near the shore, so the village was built inland up the valley. IF this had been developed by the Army, it would have made it easier for DHARMA to have just used the same jeep road and cleared forest area that the military had constructed 16 years or so before.

So I logically concluded that DHARMA would have just incorporated the same pre-existing infrastructure that the military had set up before - it saved resources and time to just do this. That's how I surmised that the Army had occupied this spot before Dharmaville was built.
100%
I also wanted to comment on something else we saw in "Follow the Leader". I'd mentioned how I believed the social structure of Dharmaville was set up as far as leadership went. Here's what I'd written below in the OP: Decisions were made by consensus. However, absolute consensus was not required. Also, many decisions were made by executive fiat - if someone could convince other DHARMA members that he (or she) had the authority to make a particular decision, then this was all that was needed to justify the decision. So, when Radzinsky is beating Sawyer up, and Horace bursts in on them, Horace tries in vain to gain control of the situation, but Radz basically tells him he didn't have the cajones to do what needed to be done. So, this is additional evidence of how leadership took place in Dharmaville - it isn't just that a person can convince other DHARMA members that he or she has the authority to make a decision, but it also shows that a DHARMA person can make a decision through by fiat - in other words, by just declaring that nobody can stop them. Horace had the authority, but that wasn't enough - Radz just went ahead and did what he wanted to do.

This sort of leadership style is very fertile ground for chaos and social instability, as I'm sure we're finding out.

It is interesting that many Hippie communities in the 1960s and 1970s suffered from the same problems. Many Hippies wanted to reject society's structure, and just "go with the flow". But the problem with this is that we humans don't work that way. And so, instead of creating Utopian communities, these kind of groups typically ended up smashing into a wall after a few years, as members of the community ended up either trying to co-opt power for themselves, or developed non-reconcilable differences with one another, which led to a disintegration of the community.

So what we're seeing with Dharmaville is completely typical of how these Utopian Hippe communities worked out.

This is not to say that some Hippie communities did NOT succeed - in fact, there still are some very strong communes left over from the Hippie days that have done quite well, including The Farm (http://www.thefarm.org/) and Twin Oaks (http://www.twinoaks.org/), to name but a couple of the bigger ones.

But anyway, yeah, looks like Dharmaville is doomed to fail.

wow, great work guys-really enjoyed Reading through this thread!

Nice job there Sauk. Maybe this question works in this thread as well. It's been bugging me for years... How the devil did all the stuff to build DHARMAville and all it's stations and VW buses and everything else even get there in the first place. Surely not on some submarine. It takes a lot of heavy equuipment to build such things, the sub won't cut the mustard here.

Furthermore all the elaborate ancient underground stuff and the statue didnt just happen and they probably didn't even have submarines back then. :)

Nice job there Sauk. Maybe this question works in this thread as well. It's been bugging me for years... How the devil did all the stuff to build DHARMAville and all it's stations and VW buses and everything else even get there in the first place. Surely not on some submarine. It takes a lot of heavy equuipment to build such things, the sub won't cut the mustard here.

Furthermore all the elaborate ancient underground stuff and the statue didnt just happen and they probably didn't even have submarines back then. :)
Good questions. Maybe that would indeed warrant a separate thread.

My guess is that the Lamppost MUST be involved with how DHARMA originally was able to locate the Island. And if they did locate it, they theoretically could have sent a freighter to the Island - as we see later that Charles Widmore managed to do. I'm positive that had the freighter not blown up, it would have eventually got to the Island.

But it's probably a lot easier to go back and forth via the submarine setup that DHARMA had in place... Just a guess...

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but just a small correction to the original post: people did earn wages in the Initiative. Roger makes a mention to Horace in Ben's flashback season 3 that he wants more pay because he was in the middle of a shootout.

Also there is some question as to how the stations were built on the island. IIRC Paik industries is responsible for building the stations, they probably had a freighter for that if we are to believe the ARG that is...

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but just a small correction to the original post: people did earn wages in the Initiative. Roger makes a mention to Horace in Ben's flashback season 3 that he wants more pay because he was in the middle of a shootout.

Also there is some question as to how the stations were built on the island. IIRC Paik industries is responsible for building the stations, they probably had a freighter for that if we are to believe the ARG that is...


Right! Paik has to have a connection with the island we haven't seen so far. After all, he is a close friend of Widmore's.