*** IMPORTANT! IF WHILE SCANNING THIS THREAD YOU NOTE WORKS OF LITERATURE THAT BELONG ON THE MASTER LIST OR WOULD LIKE TO BECOME A MEMBER PLEASE PM ME, I can't promise to visit this thread regulary but will check the fuselage daily for private messages ***

I don't know how many people have spent time speculating on the significance of Sawyer's books. He's been reading Watership down (about bunnies starting a new society after their home is destroyed) and a Wrinkle in Time (other dimensions/universes) did i miss any? I don't know about you...but I find these stories rather appropriate to our Lostaway's situations. As an avid reader myself I was surprised to find such well known literature on the island....and knowing the nature of this show, the creators did not just hand Sawyer a book at random. New societies....other dimensions? Does that strike a chord with anyone else?

That is why I propose:
Books Of Overall Kuriosity Will Offer Rather Marvelous Speculation.
(can anyone think of something better?) For those of us who refuse to dismiss Sawyer's books as interesting filler.


MEMBERS
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #1- LastNovember
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #2- care_n_jim
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #3- Bess2728
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #4- ADA0716
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #5- Shootfire
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #6- KalykoKatt
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #7- minaloush
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #8- Madscientist
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #9- creme
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #10- Redemption_Isle
B.O.O.K W.O.R.M. #11- Streakergurl
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B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #17- notlost, justexploring
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #18- necrite98
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #19- nolan
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #20- Jaybird
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #21- LostOCD
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #22- QuinceTheCarpenter
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #23- carodeluxe
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #24- Lost Granny
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #25- DragonWife
B.O.O.K. W.O.R.M. #26- Herk

BOOK LIST

Shortlist of books directly referenced on the show

- Watership Down, Richard Adams
- A Wrinkle in Time, Madeline l'Engel
- Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Caroll (White Rabbit)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=953497&postcount=221) Lord of the Flies, William Golding
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=395287&postcount=91) The Bridge of San Luis Rey, Thornton Wilder (NUM)
- The Green Lantern, Faster Friends #1 (Walt/Hurley's comic book)
- The Third Policeman, Flan O'Brien (Orientation-I think)
- The Bible (The Other 48)
- The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Frank Baum (Henry Gale)
- Bad Twin, ? (Manuscript from the plane, Sawyer book)
- Malice or Miracle, Danielle Steel (Hatch)
- The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoyevsky (hatch?)
- A Hooded Crow, Craig Thomas (hatch)
- A History of World Societies, Bennett D. Hill, John Buckler, Patricia Buckley Ebrey, John P. McKay. (hatch)
- An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge, Ambrose Bierce (hatch)
- Heart of Darkness, Jospeh Conrad (Various allusions throughout the show)




Books that creators/writers have cited as influential and/or have recommended

- The Stand, Stephen King
- The Dark Tower Series, Stephen King
- The Queen's Gambit (recommended by Javi)
- Shakespeare, Othello (Dominick Monaghan comapares his character to Iago in E-online interview)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=991252&postcount=232) Contact, Carl Sagan
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=991252&postcount=232) Solaris, Stanislaw Lem

Books otherwise recommended by fans, possible connections

- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams (connection to number 42)
- Sophie's World, Joestein Gaardner (philosophy connections)
- The Tempest, Shakespeare (shipwreck on island, discussed in a tv guide article)
- Taming of the Shrew, Shakespeare (parallels between Kate and Sawyer)
- The Island of Dr. Moreau (island)
- The Island, Peter Benchley(creepy islands)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=538896&postcount=107) Sphere, Micheal Crichton (conjuring things from the mind)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=596680&postcount=112) Gould's Book of Fish, Richard Flanagan (conman, island, etc)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=518352&postcount=104) The Illuminatus Trilogy,Wilson and Robert Shea's (Number 23,eyes, among other things)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=437660&postcount=97) The Rule of Four, Ian Caldwell & Dustin Thomason (riddles)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=610690&postcount=121) The Solitaire Mystery, Joestein Gaardner (islands, fate)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=606911&postcount=116) Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Coolridge
- English Passengers, Matthew Kneale (Science vs. Faith)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=615433&postcount=126) Walden Two, BF Skinner
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=650316&postcount=138) The Island of the Day Before, Umberto Eco
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=980807&postcount=228) Island, Aldous Huxley
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=987477&postcount=231) The Crying of Lot 49, Thomas Pynchon (conspiracy)
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1002272&postcount=236) Le grand secret (the immortals), rené barjavel
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1054027&postcount=241)Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon



* A dash (-) next to a book title that is hyperlinked will take you to a helpful post in this thread pertaining to that book*

Yea there are lots of posts dedicated to sawyers books - You should try looking on the rest of the "General theories" and "Spoiler Theories" I'm sure you would find alot of information on this subject.

Hope that helps you.

heehee *slightly embarrassed* I should probably search the boards a bit before starting my own topic huh? Still a bit new to the boards and trying to figure out how they work (<---lame excuse of mine) Thanks though....I'll look into the other posts. sorry for my threaded board ignorance :blushing:

I didn't mean it like that at all.* You really, really shouldn't be embarrassed - this site is WAY too big for any of us to read every single thread.....Trust me you're not the first.

Again I didn't mean it like that,* I just thought you might want to read other peoples ideas.* (Because they're really good)

this site is waaayy too big b/c there are too many people who take pride in the number of posts they have. i think at least 50% of the posts should be deleted b/c they add no value to the discussion. it makes it very difficult to read other peoples ideas/theories and news items without having to sift through hundreds of nonsense posts......like this one.

Have no fear nice -before you know it you will be watching your post count and thinking will I ever have enough posts to see the Avatars!!!

November -- yours is the first I have seen for BOOKWORM -- and I have been around a bit -- SO -- SIGN ME UP

AND you should know under the writers thread - the question was asked and although still left unanswered - we were led the believe the books MAY matter -- I will search for the thread and send it your way --

Glad to have you posting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks everyone. I do appreciate that I'm being taken seriously by at least some people, and that your being so kind. ;D Again, I am sorry if this is redundant.....*I have got to stop apologizing for myself...*

I remember Sawyer's reading of Watership Down most vividly.
"Watership Down is the tale of a group of rabbits in search of a home. Fiver, a small, young rabbit, has a gift: He can tell when things are going to happen and he can sense whether they will be good or bad. Fiver foresees great danger to the rabbit's home warren. His brother Hazel, who is slightly larger and helps take care of Fiver, takes Fiver to the Chief Rabbit, the Threarah. Fiver tells the Threarah that he foresees great danger, but the Chief Rabbit does not believe him."

Fiver reminds me of Walt especially, a young rabbit with supernatural gifts...although Locke also seems to have the ability to sense things. As of now i could only find this small portion of the summary^ anyway, scream (well don't really scream) If you have anything to add...I'm just trying to get a discussion started.

Breathes a sigh of relief. Before I jumped in, I thought this thread was going to be related to me :laugh:

I think the books are a big clue to us as to why there are on the island. And there are more books to consider, here's a link to a TV Guide article that also lists more required reading for Lost fans.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=33679&fullsize=1

Happy reading!!! :laugh:

See November -- your thread WAS needed --
I head read that article in TV Guide - forgot to save it -- and NOW I can !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a BOOKWORM -- you need to start a member list on your first page -- :)

This week's TV Guide came with a free LOST poster...on the back was a "map" of the island. I found this segment especially interesting: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LastNovember/lastscan.jpg (I hope the link works) If the creators are pointing to it....than clearly there is significance. The book mentioned were Watership Down and a Wrinkle in Time specifically.

Well, I'm going to read A Wrinkle in Time, the other books sound too sad and/or gory to me -- or scary if you include The Stand --* which is why I never read them in the first place.** But maybe I can learn something about them without having to actually read them, in here.* *:laugh:*

*Ironically, I can read gory murder mysteries with no problem, but I can't handle rabbits in distress or the kind of lynch-mob thing that evidently goes on in LOTF, which I skimmed and (shuddering) put away again.* And Stephen King just scares the @#$& out of me, I would rather have to plow through Giants of the Earth again than read another Stephen King novel.

(I hope that somewhere along the line, Sawyer manages to find a book I've already read and enjoyed.* Didn't anybody on that plane read Michael Crichton or John Nance?* Or better yet, Agatha Christie?)

I read Watership Down awhile back....those bunnies had quite the life ;) I also vaguely remember A Wrinkle in Time...it's a good read regardless of its connection to the show, speaking of which...does anyone remember exactly how the kids in AWIT get where ever it is they end up?

Maybe I'd better avoid this thread until I've finished reading it.* *:laugh:* But I'll be back.* :)

November -- I read that book in 84 or 85 - and to the best of my recollection -- Mrs. WHO was shaped like a horse and flew them -- on her back --
I must go dig it out --

KATO don't go - your idea on the number thread was good - we need to work on that over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a summary of the book at this site:

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/wrinkle/summary.html

Thanks for the summary, that's very helpful...I think I still have my copy of AWIT...somewhere. I just found WaterShip Down...I'm going to check out thepossibilities brought up at NUMBERS, I'll post it if I find anything.

The fourth chapter of Watership Down in called "the Departure" there is one paragraph and about 4 sentences on the page, as one sentence is extremely long. The 8th, 15th, 16th, 23rd, and 42nd words though are "course" "or" "of" "are" and "several" respectively. (in my April 1975 copy) Does that mean anything to anyone? There are a total of 50 chapters divided between 4 parts. plus an epilogue.chapter 8 in called "The Crossing" chapter 15 is called "The Story of the King's Lettuce" chapter 16 is called "Silverweed" and chapter 23 is called "Kehaar" and chapter 42 is called "News at Sunset" That's all I've got so far...maybe we need to repeat the word procedure for each chapter?

What happened guys? I feel like this thread died :'( Maybe we'll have some more insight after tonight's Lost?

Will you allow me to join? :)

of course Bess! your number 3, I'll add you to the list and you can put in your profile. Everyone can join.

super. I'm a librarian by profession - so this is up my alley.

Okay, I finally got around to reading A Wrinkle in Time so I'm back.*

Man, that book was so full of Lostish things that I seriously wonder if they have Sawyer reading it just to yank our chains.* Scientists, a math genius, a little boy who can essentially read minds, a "black thing," a battle between light and dark, a religious theme, a medium with a sort of a crystal ball (only instead of the future it shows locations -- and that chapter is called "the Happy Medium," ha), father issues including the absent father, eyeglasses are very important at one point... and that's all off the top of my head.* I should have taken notes, but I'd be interrupting myself to write a note about once a page.*

Bess, how cool to be a librarian.* :)*

Oh.My.Gosh.

I am a total bookworm.

I haven't read LotF since my jr. high english class, but I own A Wrinkle in Time and it is one of my favorites.

Can I join??

ADA0716

of course ADA0716 *adding to members list*
You can put your number in your siggy, and keep posting up here if anything interesting pops up for you

Thanks a bunch!

Can I join?

I have a couple of observations regarding Watership Down and AWIT. Both of those stories are about characters with multiple intelligences. I think, possibly, Lord of the Flies can be incorporated into that idea as well.

In AWIT Meg is considered dimwitted by most people. What they don't understand is that she is way ahead of other people. They just don't get that she's several steps ahead of them and can't slow down to their speed. The same can be said for the little brother. He just lets everyone think he is an idiot. Yet it is all of their skills that are needed to reach their goal, even if those skills are not obvious to everyone.


Watership Down has some of the same elements. When the leader doesn't trust the special insight of his brother, it leads to trouble for all the members of their society. When they visit the rabbits that are being fed by the farmer, the intuitive rabbit, sorry I can't remember his name, doesn't want to stay. He senses that something is wrong. The next day they find that the farmer that has been feeding them has trapped/snared one of the rabbits. If the leader had listened to his brother, who had a special skill, it would have prevented them from being placed in a dangerous situation.

In Lord of the Flies the hunters seek to dominate the society. The civilized boys want to combine their effectiveness by working together. When the hunters succeed in their goal, tragedy follows. In fact, the hunters succeed in dragging the civilized boys down to their level, leading to shame for the civilized boys when they are eventually rescued.

Hello! Can I join in too? I've been making reading the related books a special project of mine. So far, I've finished The Stand, and the Wrinkle in Time series. (Actually, the whole series has many correlations to Lost, not just Wrinkle in Time.) I'm presently in the middle of Watership Down. I was beginning to discuss it in Sawyer's Book Club: http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=14509.0

I've been underlining/marking in my books so I can actually start a notebook of Lost Book parallels/inspirations...

ETA: Ooh, ooh... I finally have a real seat on the plane. :)

*adding everyone to members list* That's a really good thought shootfire. I didn't really think about that. to look at it in a bit of a darker light, supposing someone who just kind of breezes by nonchalantly really is on top of it all. Not exactly the same idea but, like the rabbit (fiver? something like that) in WD who could sense that something was amiss maybe someone on the island who we haven't seen much of is on top of it all. One's first thought is Locke...since he really is in tune with the island. And yet, I feel like as much as the possibility of him keeping a secret, we know too much about Locke to be surprised if he pops up with all the answers. *brewing new theory*

we know too much about Locke to be surprised if he pops up with all the answers. *brewing new theory*

I agree, LastNovember. I expect certain insights from Locke, but I think we are probably going to be surprised by some people. Bess has been doing some interesting speculating about Shannon in the Nerd thread. Personally, I think it would be hysterical if Shannon came up with some useful technical information regarding the hatch. :laugh: I also think Hurley is going to be interesting to watch regarding the numbers on the hatch. These are the two you would least expect to figure out the mystery, but wouldn't it be interesting if they did? Perhaps a, someone "gave Shannon her faults"and "gave Hurley his communication," scenario will be played out?

Shoot - interesting - giving Shannon her faults. Perhaps you are on to something. Meg also is befriended by a popular boy, whom she later marries.* Sayid and Shannon?

Aw shucks - about the interesting ideas on Shannon over in NERDS! :) Made my day to have you say that!

For those that haven't read Lord of the Flies this site has an excellent summary of the symbolism in the book.

http://www.rit.edu/~sjg2490/lotf/analysis.html

Sayid and Shannon?
Derrrr....thanks Bess. Sayid is the communications officer, isn't he?

These are the two you would least expect to figure out the mystery, but wouldn't it be interesting if they did? Perhaps a, someone "gave Shannon her faults"and "gave Hurley his communication," scenario will be played out?

I actually think this is a very plausible idea, although I didn't think about it until you mentioned it. We were shown Shannon as a blonde, Barbie type, but the more we get to know her she is very smart and yet doesn't believe it. Her self esteem is actually low, like Meg's, I think.

Hurley really surprised us by turning out to be a possibly very major character in the mystery, so it would seem that Shannon might be also. It's something we would least expect, yet so obviously easy.

Its true. So much of Hurley's story has yet to be unfurled. Since the Numbers are such a big part of the plot Hurley is just the character enlighten everyone.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/watership/themes.html Has a good summary of the themes in WaterShip Down. There are so many little things you can pick out of that....Like the Warren of the Snares and Sayid in Rousseau's layer, or the idea of a "home" or safe haven and the caves. Leaving the Warren divided the rabbits as leaving the Beach divided the Lostaways. I'm trying to look at the bigger picture though, we can always find a ton of comparisons if we look hard enough.

i'm in.

WD has now made it in a Tiberius posting. If you don't follow this Tiberius, you want to take a look at the thread started by conundrum. It's interesting to say the very least. Don't know who this Tiberius fellow is...but he sure is interesting! :)

Can I be a B.O.O.k W.O.R.M, too?* I'm fairly new to the site, but one of the first things that caught my eye was the 'reading list', especially Watership Down.* I am a book geek and I can't wait to really re-read Watership Down and find some arcane symbolism, or just the obvious.* Love LOTF and Wrinkle, too.* Haven't read The Stand, though, but I'm definitely going to now.* Any other recommended readings that I should be aware of?*

'course mina and mad. I'll add u to the member list.

Can I be a B.O.O.k W.O.R.M, too? I'm fairly new to the site, but one of the first things that caught my eye was the 'reading list', especially Watership Down. I am a book geek and I can't wait to really re-read Watership Down and find some arcane symbolism, or just the obvious. Love LOTF and Wrinkle, too. Haven't read The Stand, though, but I'm definitely going to now. Any other recommended readings that I should be aware of?


Here are a couple of threads that have reading suggestions.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=9369.msg160976#msg160976

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=9854.0

Hey, I already started Sawyer's Book Club in Lost Talk on April 17th.* :-[* Thanks for posting the link, KalykoKatt. But that's okay, you're getting more responses, and you're talking about all the books at once.* We're going book by book.* We've got a bunch of discussion questions for WD if you want to borrow them.* I'll drop by here as well.*

I remember reading somewhere recently, that one of the common threads in WD, LotF, AWIT, and Alice in Wonderland was the issue of moral compass. It seems that none of the lostaways has a really firm grasp on morality. Even characters who are portrayed as having the best of intentions waver in times of crisis. Isn't crisis the time we need our moral compass operational above all other times? Sayid broke his promise to himself and tortured Sawyer, and let's not forget he had Jack's approval. Which characters haven't done something that casts a shadow on his/her morality since arriving on the island?

Speaking of a moral compass, interesting that Locke said he didn't need his literal compass anymore. He gave it to Sayid, but it was broken? Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if Locke gave him that compass prior to torturing Sawyer? I think he did. Later Locke uses a compass again. Did the island give him a new literal/figurative moral compass? Or was he possibly having a crisis of faith, causing him to need something tangible to refer to. He no longer trusted his inner voice? Hmmmm.....

I remember reading somewhere recently, that one of the common threads in WD, LotF, AWIT, and Alice in Wonderland was the issue of moral compass. It seems that none of the lostaways has a really firm grasp on morality. Even characters who are portrayed as having the best of intentions waver in times of crisis. Isn't crisis the time we need our moral compass operational above all other times? Sayid broke his promise to himself and tortured Sawyer, and let's not forget he had Jack's approval. Which characters haven't done something that casts a shadow on his/her morality since arriving on the island?

Claire & Sun :) I find it interesting that we see Jack in the flashbacks doing a very moral thing by turning in his father, but the longer he's on the island, the more morality he seems to lose. (almost a return to primitive man, if you will...) The opposite seems to be true with Sawyer. He seems to be getting a real set of morals and goodness on the island. (I just loved him reading to the baby.)

Another theme of these books is taking a major crisis to help the characters discover who they really are and what they really stand for. In civilization we have so many things to keep us busy that we don't really think about our values. Yet, it's those times where we're forced to look inside ourselves that we discover/decide our true character. I think this is the main point of Season 1, we're slowly discovering who these people are (as they themselves discover who they really are).

Claire & Sun

Hmm....Sun allowed Jin to think that she was unable to communicate with the other lostaways. She revealed it at a time that, while it kept Jin from being killed, it also humiliated him. That is kind of a big betrayal IMHO. I'm not really sure her moral compass is indicating true north either. I agree about Claire though. What about Hurley? Has he done anything that smacks of morality crisis? I know he stole Sayid's maps, but is there anything else? It's not really anyone's business that he won the lottery, so I'm not sure withholding that information really matters. He did tell Charlie, though Charlie didn't believe him. Should he have pressed the issue in the name of honesty and revealed something about himself to his friend?

Oh yes, good point about Sun. I didn't think about that. Actually, Hurley might be the most moral person on the island. (Unless, there's something I'm not thinking of.) However, he probably feels very immoral because he used the numbers and "caused" all those tragidies.

So we're all on the same page: Morality: n 1: concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct [ant: immorality] 2: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: ethical motive, ethics, morals]

I can't help thinking about the new baby. He hasn't had a chance to be faced with morality challenges....as far as I'm concerned at least, morality doesn't apply to him yet. And yet, he certainly affects it in all the other Lostaways, such as Sawyer reading to him, and I know that Claire and possibly Charlie and Sun will think about the baby above themselves now. Now maybe this is a stretch (okay it isquite a stretch) but could the baby be a bit of a metaphor for a morality compass? I think of new babies as a motivation for good, and as representatives for all that is good and innocent. (please exclude Rosemary's Baby ) As long as Claire has been on the island her welfare and well being has been a morality issue for at least a few lostaways as she was carrying another human being....maybe that "role" has been transferred to the baby? I'm a little off today.....I know thats kind of out there, and a bit OT, but since it was brought up...

I think of new babies as a motivation for good, and as representatives for all that is good and innocent.

nicely put. I also agree with the morality compass and emphasis shifting from Claire as pregnant mother to be to her child.

I have always viewed Sun as the "voice of reason."

Super discussion!

Suggested Reading

Tabula Rasa the Horror

It's the mysterious Tiberius! *googling*

Is this what you meant, Tiberius?

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/Horror/Fiction.html

Their article on The Stand is quite interesting as well...

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/StephenKing/Stand.html

ETA: The Stand link

Oooh, oooh! Me, me! I wanna be a BOOKWORM.

I'm such a joiner.

So are we talking about literary references in general, or just Sawyer's library?

One can not judge a book by its cover

Look Down under

Tiberius

Now maybe this is a stretch (okay it isquite a stretch) but could the baby be a bit of a metaphor for a morality compass?

I like that idea. A baby would be a good moral compass. When you think about it, don't people try harder to do the right thing when there is a child watching? What one might consider doing without the audience, one wouldn't do if it meant influencing a child in the wrong way. I can see Sawyer now....he's about to hide some food for later or something. The baby looks up at him and coos, and suddenly he's giving the extra food to Claire to help keep her nutrition level up to par. :angel: :laugh:

One can not judge a book by its cover

Look Down under

Tiberius


**skipping in from the Tiberius thread***

search on Australia, tabula rasa led to....

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/MirrorDanse/
And from this site, on the side bar:*
COMING SOON
Storm
* *Constantine
Algernon
* *Blackwood

Hmmmm...
"There's a storm coming..."
Lots of mirror theories here at the fuselage.

Storm Constantine wrote Egyptian Birth Signs.* The best part of all is the link (Bookworm)
http://www.bookworm.com.au/cgi-bin/bookmall/bookworm/result.tam?rlk=6297561

Algernon Blackwood
http://print.google.com/print?id=egKW52QcI5AC&dq=algernon+blackwood&oi=print&pg=1&sig=AE5eYcW5ibkVL-thBCmG-v-gtEw&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dalgernon%2Bblackwood

If you google algernon blackwood, you'll get a cute little book symbol to the left of the listing.* The books are blue, red, yellow and green.* Type in another book....say "Gone with the Wind," and you do not get the little icon.*

I've run into these sites time and time again researching at the Tiberius thread.* Colors, percentages, acronyms, etc.* It's koo koo.* *Perhaps the B Wormies can figure this out....

Suggested Reading

Tabula Rasa the Horror


http://print.google.com/print?id=dST-lVg-eVQC&dq=constantine&oi=print&pg=17&sig=H5DQvWQdXTUJUu2R6Ma5KWraLQM&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dconstantine%26spell%3D1

Googling tabula rasa horror
Shades of Time and Memory: The Second Book of the Wraeththu Histories by Storm Constantine

stopping in to add creme and then skipping off again to finish lurking the boards. I'll be back in a bit.

Shades of Time and Memory: The Second Book of the Wraeththu Histories by Storm Constantine
That book has yet to be released. It's not due out until this summer...July 2005 is the projected release date.

The description of the book deals with a warring hermaphrodite race, the Wraeththu, who've supplanted humans as the dominant species on Earth. Sounds a bit too odd for my taste. I prefer bunnies. :D

Sounds a bit too odd for my taste. I prefer bunnies.

Me too, Bess. I used to joke that the monster was Harvey, the pooka. Since he was fond of Locke, I figured Locke was a crackpot or a rumpot. Obviously, he was not Mr. Wilson. :lol2:


Actually, Hurley might be the most moral person on the island.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this statement Kalyko. I think I agree with you at this point. The thing is, we really don't know that much about Hurley. For instance, we don't know why he calls himself Hurley instead of Hugo. In all of the discussion about Ethan not being on the manifest, nobody was really checking on Hurley. Naturally, he knew who he was, but if someone else had been checking the manifest, wouldn't they have thought Hurley was not there either? Did anyone offer to let Ethan explain why he was not on the manifest? It's interesting that Sawyer asked if anyone had ever thought that Ethan was lying about his name. Then Walt commented that it dumb to lie about your name. Yet, don't we already have Sawyer doing it, and possibly Hurley? Maybe Hurley had his reasons. Maybe he was afraid his name would be clearly recognizable, given the press hoopla around lottery winners. Still, could it be that he, too, is trying to reinvent himself? If he is, what is so wrong with Hugo that he doesn't want to be that person anymore?

Creme, I don't know about Last November, but I am willing to consider any literature that has been referrenced in the show, Sawyer's or not. Also, literature that is known to have influenced the writers, or that the writers have specifically mentioned in intervies in connection with the show. I can't say that I plan on reading The Stand, because personally, Stephen King stuff gives me nightmares! I'm a pansy! ::) :lol2:

Sign me up. I am currently reading Watership Down. Love them bunnies.

I have prev. read WIT series and LOTF. Need to do STAND and Tempest.

creme and shootfire- I'm all for any literature that connects to the show or is referenced.There are so many classic themes in this show that mirror those of books and stories that it is impossible not to make connections.

Redemption_Isle I'll add you right away :)

I've been doing some more thinking about common threads in AIT, WD, AiW, and LotF. In all of these books, the characters have been transplanted. They have left everything they are familiar with and have been flung into worlds they have no idea how to function within.

Locke is a puzzle, though. He functions better in his new world doesn't he? Are there instances of other characters that function better in their new world than in the old?

The only character that jumps out at me as functioning better in his new environment is not from the books you listed. However, I think Harold from The Stand fits that profile. For those that haven't read it, Harold was the fat kid in school that everyone made fun of. He has a lot of insecrities and a lot of pride. However after the superflu hits, he immediately takes charge of his situation. He makes sure Frannie, whom he secretly loves, is taken care of and helps her find a new civilization. He makes signs to tell everyone who might see them where they are headed so they can follow. Even when they get to the new forming civilization in Boulder, he becomes of of the leaders of the community and makes great suggestions. Unfortunately, he goes to the bad side at the end because of his wounded pride. We'll see what happens with Locke...

I'm sorry, I haven't had time to read this whole thread. I belong to too many clubs :lol2:

Is The Bridge of San Luis Rey on the reading list yet? It's a must for this show. It deals wtih questions of fate and free will. The bridge scene in Numbers may pay homage to the book. It's by Thornton Wilder.

Is there a simple list of recommended reading?

I'm working on a list of literary refs for the Long Lost List. If anybody has a book list with notes to homages and references, I'll add it to the LLL (provided that all the refs are real and fact checked in the show).

Charlie mentioned Kurtz from Heart of Darkness in the episode "Numbers". Haven't seen that mentioned here, yet. Thought I'd let y'all know.

BTW, great thread!

Edit:

Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, now his most famous work, was first published in 1899 in serial form in London’s Blackwood’s Magazine, a popular journal of its day. The work was well received by a somewhat perplexed Victorian audience. It has since been called by many the best short novel written in English. At the time of its writing (1890), the Polish-born Conrad had become a naturalized British citizen, mastered the English language, served for ten years in the British merchant marines, achieved the rank of captain, and traveled to Asia, Australia, India, and Africa. Heart of Darkness is based on Conrad’s firsthand experience of the Congo region of West Africa. Conrad was actually sent up the Congo River to an inner station to rescue a company agent—not named Kurtz but Georges-Antoine Klein—who died a few days later aboard ship. The story is told in the words of Charlie Marlow, a seaman, and filtered through the thoughts of an unidentified listening narrator. It is on one level about a voyage into the heart of the Belgian Congo, and on another about the journey into the soul of man. In 1902, Heart of Darkness was published in a separate volume along with two other stories by Conrad. Many critics consider the book a literary bridge between the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and a forerunner both of modern literary techniques and approaches to the theme of the ambiguous nature of truth, evil, and morality. By presenting the reader with a clearly unreliable narrator whose interpretation of events is often open to question, Conrad forces the reader to take an active part in the story’s construction and to see and feel its events for him—or herself.

Is there a simple list of recommended reading?

I'm working on a list of literary refs for the Long Lost List. If anybody has a book list with notes to homages and references, I'll add it to the LLL (provided that all the refs are real and fact checked in the show).

Creme - I'm going to make a whole literary notebook for Lost as my summer project. Almost all the related books I've never read, so I've been trying to take notes and underline as I read. I'd be happy to share as I get it together.

Thanks. When I get a spare moment I'll copy over the notes I have so far.

Wake up thread! *shakes*

I was watching last night's episode with my mother and she stated "I don't know about all these theories...I think its just a creepy island." I had to disagree with her there though...all the mystery and the build up, there must be something more. "It'd be a huge downer though," I told her "if it was all a dream, or a story of something." then it hit me...I remembered a book I'd read last summer called "Sophie's World"
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/sophie/summary.html

The most apprapo part of the story was "Sophie learns about the focus on humanity in the Renaissance and the extremes of the Baroque and then Alberto focuses on some key philosophers. Urgently, he teaches her about Descartes, who doubted, and by doing so knew at least that he could doubt. They move on to Spinoza as it becomes clear that Hilde's father has some awesome power over them. Then Sophie learns about the empiricists. Locke believed in natural rights and that everything we know is gained from experience. Hume, an important influence on Kant, showed that our actions are guided by feelings and warned against making laws based upon our experiences. But Berkeley is most important to Sophie because he suggested that perhaps our entire lives were inside the mind of God. And Alberto says that their lives are inside the mind of Albert Knag, Hilde's father."
Maybe all the Lostaway's are an elaborate story in someone's mind? that's a littel far fetched and I'd be let down personally if that is how it ended. And yet, in a book shelf search for "Sophie's World" i remembered a chapter in ti about John Locke...and I went to investigate.

From Sparknotes:
"Locke
Sophie tells her mother a little bit about the situation with Alberto and Hilde's father, but only succeeds in making her mother worry more than ever. Two weeks go by and Sophie hears nothing from Alberto. She receives two birthday cards for Hilde. On June 14th Hermes comes to get her, and before taking her to Alberto's house he says happy birthday to Hilde. Sophie is amazed, but it seems Hilde's father can do anything. Alberto tells her about the empiricists, philosophers who felt that everything in our mind comes from our experience through the senses. They were critics of the rationalists. Locke, Berkeley, and Hume are the most important, and Alberto starts by discussing Locke. He wanted to understand where our ideas come from and how trustworthy our senses are. Locke felt we could perceive simple sensations, and that we build these up through reflection to form complex ideas. However, he also divided the world into primary and secondary qualities, and only the first—such as size or number—are accurately reproduced. Secondary qualities, like taste, vary from person to person. Locke had a few rationalistic features to his thought. He felt that the same natural rights applied to everyone and also that the existence of God was knowable through reason. Locke also advocated a division of power within government."
And then just to delve deeper : http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/sophie/themes.html

Maybe that's not all entirely appropriate but the book "A novel about the history of philosophy" seemed to fit with so many different philosophical undertones of the show...and I just had to share.

wow..big post. I hope this'll wake up the thread.

LastNovember! I loved Sophie's World! It certainly does fit! Good call.

I've never heard of that book, but it looks really good. I'll have to put it on my list.

And, thanks for waking up the thread. :)

no problem....it was dwindling.
And Sophie's World is an excellent book, no hesitations in recommending it.

Shortlist of books directly referenced on the show:

- Watership Down, Richard Adams
- A Wrinkle in Time, Madeline l'Engel
- Alice in Wonderland, C.S. Lewis (White Rabbit)
- Lord of the Flies, William Golding
- The Bridge of San Luis Rey, Thornton Wilder (NUM)
- The Green Lantern, Faster Friends #1 (Walt/Hurley's comic book)


Books that creators/writers have cited as influential and/or have recommended

- The Stand, Stephen King
- The Dark Tower Series, Stephen King
- The Queen's Gambit (recommended by Javi)
- Shakespeare, Othello (Dominick Monaghan comapares his character to Iago in E-online interview)

Books otherwise recommended by fans, possible connections

- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe (connection to number 42)
- Sophie's World (philosophy connections)
- The Tempest, Shakespeare (shipwreck on island, discussed in a tv guide article)
- Taming of the Shrew, Shakespeare (parallels between Kate and Sawyer)
- The Island of Dr. Moreau
- The Island, Peter Benchley

Then, of course, there are various works of philosophy...

Great list creme! Now that the season is over :(, I need to get more into my summer book project.

Here's a couple more that's on my list...

The Tempest by Shakespeare (cited as required reading in TV guide's article) - about a purposeful shipwreck on an enchanted island for revenge

The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carrol (mysterious monster? - it's been mentioned here several times)

sorry to jump in, but I think you should add the Island of Dr. Moreau to your list of connections/similarities!

I updated the list. I also forgot Taming of the Shrew.

Sorry I've been missing for awhile, just checking in now. Great list creme! I'll see how many of those I can get through. I can't wait until next season!

Hey everybody, I bought 5 of the books on that list at Amazon for less than $20 total including shipping.

I didn't pay more than about 57 cents per copy, all paperback editions in great reading condition.

Word to the wise!

hehe, thanks creme. In the summer my local library ahs a book bag sale, fill a grocery bag with as many books as you can fit for five dollars. That is where I originally found WSD and AWIT. I intend on going in armed with your list this time though ;D

Cool! I still haven't read all the books from the list that were already in my home library. :lol2:
Some of them I have to reread because it has been so long. I'm afraid I will miss something important if I don't. Next on my list is Hitchhiker's Guide, which I already own but haven't read yet. :)

We have an awesome used bookstore where I live. I got Watership Down (presently reading) for 37 cents. :) Next up on my list is also Hitchhikers Guide since I just saw the movie and my husband told me I needed to read it. (heh heh..)

So, off to the used bookstore with your handy list next week creme. Yay!

Lost November,

Maybe you could copy that Reading List to the first post on this thread so we can easily find it?

Thanks!

no problem. *copies list*

Um, I was just looking at the nice list posted at the begining, and I wanted to point out that Alice in Wonderland is by Lewis Carrol, not C.S. Lewis.

Also, does anyone know who wrote The Queen's Gambit & The Island of Dr. Moreau?

Um, I was just looking at the nice list posted at the begining, and I wanted to point out that Alice in Wonderland is by Lewis Carrol, not C.S. Lewis.

Also, does anyone know who wrote The Queen's Gambit & The Island of Dr. Moreau?


Doh. I knew that.

C.S. Lewis, of course, wrote the Chronicles of Narnia and I'd be shocked if don't eventually have some reference to that. Maybe King Lion will show up on the island ;)

Ooh... I would LOVE it if we had some Narnia references! Great stuff!

Of course, some funny hobbit references toward Charlie would be pretty good too... ;)

Ooh... I would LOVE it if we had some Narnia references! Great stuff!

Of course, some funny hobbit references toward Charlie would be pretty good too... ;)


Some, myself included, consider the dropping of his finger-tapes on the trail (found by Jack in COWBOYS) to be a nod to LOTR-TTT.

Some, myself included, consider the dropping of his finger-tapes on the trail (found by Jack in COWBOYS) to be a nod to LOTR-TTT.


I had to think for a minute, and I just watched TTT again last night... :P But, I could see that.

AmaAlso, does anyone know who wrote The Queen's Gambit & The Island of Dr. Moreau?

Amazon lists two books titled "The Queen's Gambit." One is by Walter Tevis (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400030609/qid=1118307518/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-2442049-9742235) and has a lot of editorial reviews, so I take it that it is quite a popular book. The other is by Deborah Chester (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441009972/qid=1118307518/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-2442049-9742235) and seems to be a fantasy romance of some kind, and appears to be part of a series.

The Island of Dr. Moreau (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553214322/qid=1118307799/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-2442049-9742235?v=glance&s=books) was written by H.G. Wells, the same writer behind "The Invisible Man", "The Time Machine," and "War of the Worlds."

One book you guys don't seem to have picked up on is "The Beach" by Alex Garland :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140258418/qid=1118341095/sr=8-2/ref=pd_ka_2/202-3922172-6133456

If you haven't seen the Film by Danny Boyle (starring Leo Di Caprio), then i'd definitely recommend the book... : )

Thank you Lab Rat :)

I wrote up a bit in the Numbers episode forum containing my observations on connections/similarities with The Bridge of San Luis Rey a while back, in case anyone is interested. It's here (http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=8338.msg176959#msg176959).

Just found this thread and would like to join. I have been reading (and in some cases re-reading all the books referenced to the show and that have come up in many of the threads here. Looks like you have a few here that I haven't gotten to yet. Looking forward to contributing here.

I've read Watership Down, Lord of the Flies, Alice in Wonderland and A Wrinkle in Time.

I just finished reading Prey by Michael Crichton because of all the nano-technology theories floating around and because the writers have said they have used Crichton as an inspiration. I would recommend adding this book to the list. Also, there's a thread in spoiler theories on the connections to Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None that was pretty interesting. Another possible add.

I'm off to read Hitchhiker's Guide and pick up a few of these other books that I have yet to read.

I've been tryng to read Sophie's World, but it's really slow going. I love philosophy, but I'm having a hard time getting into this book. I'm at about page 125 or so. Can anybody who has read it tell me if it picks up the pace anytime soon?

creme- It does start off slowly...I would have given up had it not been for my accidentally forgetting to bring any other books to the beach with me. I don't remember when it picks up but as Sophie's lessons become more interesting and as you progress through the ages the rest of the plot thickens. By the end of the book I was positively hooked. It's definitely worth trudging through if you are willing to keep at it.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm maybe a third of the way though the book. They are talking about the Reformation now.

Once I've got this much time invested in a book, it's pretty hard to just give up and put it down so I'm going to keep slogging through in hopes that the pace will pick up.

I've always had a hard time when narrative is interrupted with extraneous stuff - aka the writing device used in The Princess Bride.

I picked a book up over the weekend while visiting relatives. I walked into a little grocery store (the hub of the whole town) and found a rack of books, selection very limited as you might guess, but one looked interesting and I needed something to read so I thought what the heck. I ended up reading the whole thing in two days! I love it when I make a good connection with a book. :laugh:

Anyway, it's called The Rule of Four by Ian Caldwell & Dustin Thomason, their first publication no less. It's actually a book about a book. Similar to the DaVinci Code, but I liked this better. The plot is about a 16th century renaissance book called the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili, which scholars have tried to crack codes and riddles with hidden meanings within the book and the two college kids in The Rule of Four have figured out most of the riddles and are on the verge of figuring the whole thing out. Of course there's murder and intrigue involved as they get closer to the answer.

It's quite fascinating to go through the discoveries with them and the process of how they put it all together. Maybe some of it has sunk in enough to help me figure out the mysteries and puzzles of LOST!

C.S. Lewis, of course, wrote the Chronicles of Narnia and I'd be shocked if don't eventually have some reference to that. Maybe King Lion will show up on the island ;)
We may have already had a few. Aslan was a Christ symbol after all. There may be a few Christ symbols already in the show. Possibly in Walt or Aaron, but maybe in Boone -aka "God's friggin' gift to humanity" - and Charlie as well.

Can't believe I missed Sawyer reading A Wrinkle in Time. What epi was that anyone? That book is one of my all time favorites. Now I am going to have to go and read it again. **Searches madly for box of books from childhood stashed in attic**

I don't know if this is the spot to put this, but it seemed like it might fit.

I got to thinking about the books, and got off on a tangent, and started thinking about phrases and names and started doing some research.

I googled "Jungle of Mystery" (one of Sawyer's remarks)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22jungle+of+mystery%22
which gave me "The Jungle of Mystery, in the Jungle Thrills Gallery; "


and got the following reference to books.

http://www.violetbooks.com/gal-jungle.html
Leading me to a book by James Foster called Jungle Thrills Gallery

Synopsis:
An elephant is shown chasing our boy heros through a never-before-explored jungle on the dustwrapper of James Foster's Forest of Mystery (Akron, Ohio: Saalfield, 1935). This young-adult jungle thriller has a marginal lost race & fantasy content, with intimations of unseen aboriginal giants, as well as odd flora & fauna including a white pygmy elephant.


Lots of Points in there that could be Lost-ish.

Hello BOOKWORMers...a recent newcomer, I have been flitting around the site and picked up a suggestion for your reading list.
In a post from Tiberius he mentions Dark Of The Moon...which mainly googles to a recent novel...however it is also the title of a play by Howard Richardson and William Berney about "...an ill fated witch boy"

(He also mentions I, Robot....however I feel that was only to evoke the Laws of Robotics)

Just thought I would mention it

An interesting, but probably unrelated bit from The Little Prince:

"Men occupy very little space on Earth. If the two billion inhabitants of the globe were to stand close together, as they might for some big public event, they would easily fit into a city block that was twenty miles long and twenty miles wide. You could crowd all humanity onto the smallest Pacific islet."

See article on The Third Policeman (Flan O'Brien) in Chicago Tribune, 9-21-05. Article title is "Another Clue."

Re: Robert Anton Wilson and Lost

The Eye in the Pyramid -- first book in Wilson and Robert Shea's Illuminatus Trilogy, refers to the "all seeing eye," also known as the Eye of Providence, which is used in the Great Seal of United States. The eye has long been a symbol of Freemasonry, and Wilson and Shea claimed (their book was an intentional mixture of fact and fiction) that the eye was also used as a symbol of Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Illuminati (a common, though not totally proven, assertion.)

Most episodes of Lost begin by focusing on the eye of one of the characters. An eye also makes its appearance in the Hatch mural. Also, Wilson and Shea's book makes a connection between the all seeing eye, and the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph, the Eye of Horus. Interestingly, the Eye of Horus is claimed by some as the source of the symbol Rx, to represent pharmaceuticals.

The Illuminatus Trilogy in general also has frequent reference to the post-modern pseudo-religion discordianism, whose followers revere chaos. One of the oft-cited premises of the religion is the "Rule of Fives," which says that all things happen in fives. Jack has a five tatooed on his arm, and there is another that appears on the mural wall. The books also cite discordianism's concept of "The Curse of Greyface", which comes from a non-Wilson book called Principia Discordia, written by Greg Hill (although is often rumored to have ghost-written it.) On page 00042 of Principia Discordia (yes, one of the "numbers", and yes, that is how the page numbers are written in the book) it is explained that an ominous figure called Greyface (possibly the man in the grey mask featured in the Hatch mural?) taught his followers a lesson that drove them all to become spiritually and psychologically imbalanced (a theme raised with the numbers) and that mankind has born this curse ever since. It is also suggested that Greyface's follower treated life as a "game," and cared more about winning the game than about life itself (yet another recurring Lost theme.)

The Illuminatus' main characters discover an island where World War III is set to take place, as well as a government project in Las Vegas to mutate the anthrax virus in a way that could kill everyone on the planet. Sickness and pandemic are also themes in Lost, and the Desmond storyline seems to be heading further in that direction. These are just a couple of many references throughout to what Wilson and Shea call "immantizing the eschaton," which means either creating heaven on earth or bringing about the end of the world. Or both.

In Cosmic Trigger: Final Secret of the Illuminati, Wilson describes being able to change reality by changing his brain state. The Walt-related apparitions (bears, birds) as well as Locke's ability to walk again could be related to this.

Wilson was also obsessed with, and commented frequently on, what he and fellow madman author William S. Burroughs called the 23 enigma. (http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id327/pg1/index.html)

Anyway, that's a start, but really there is just SO MUCH that I don't consider myself come close to catching all the references. You'd need a pretty encyclopedic knowledge both of Wilson and of the show to handle that task.

Thanks so much, and I'm really diggin the 23 Enigma hook up.

Turn of the Screw
The Third Policeman

has anyone read Michael Crichton's Sphere? Well, basically the way it goes is some people find some magic sphere etc etc and they are given the power to manifest things. This power isn't obvious to them...so i thought maybe Walt manifested the polar bears. Notice how the *went away* when he stopped reading the comic book...were they in his head..?

Hey everybody. Just wanted to let you all know that I'm not dead. I don't have quite enough time to read everything now but all of your ideas look awesome. I"ll be back as soon as I can with a quality post =P

Doesn't look like this thread has seen any action for a while.I just wanted to join the group.
As many others are I'm slowly going to read all the books that have ties with the show starting with the Illuminatus trilogy.Look forward to some discussion with you guys :-)

I was excited to see this thread! i'd like to be a bookworm too.

I'm currently reading LotF which I tried to read in Jr. High, but I just couldn't get my prepubescent girlie girl brain around it back then. I like it a lot better this time around.

I've read a few on the list, WD, Turn of the Screw, the Stand and looking forward to reading some more... will post when I've had some time to think about it.

There are lots of references that could relate to the show I am noticing in the Illuminatus trilogy so far.The number 23 for instance is discussed and used several times in the narrative.
There is also a small island in the book called 'Fernando Poo' which is tied in to the end of the world....

Everybody, pick up Richard Flanagan's Gould's Book of Fish -- I would NOT be surprised if the creators of Lost were familiar with this book. It's basically about a con man who picks up an old journal/sketchbook by a guy named Gould, who turns out to have been a criminal in a penal colony on Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania -- which is where I personally think the Black Rock was headed). The prisoner assumed the name (Gould) of an older man he'd known previously in his life (sound familiar?) and his livelihood involved the painting of fish. Lots of similar themes -- trickery, survival, prisoners, retribution, redemption, etc.

I thought it was just nicely parallel and such, until I read on page 145 that there is a character (referenced, but never met) named Major de Groot. WOW.

And at the end, you learn that half of the book's wild characters are figments of Gould's imagination which certainly plays into some peoples' theories about the castaways on Lost.

Plus it's just an amazing, amazing book.

Definitely sounds like it had some influences especially with the De Groot named character too.Interesting...

Hey all - I'd like to join BOOKWORMS. I know Last November hasn't been around, but I'll wait. ;) I've read Watership Down and A Wrinkle in Time, and I'll be starting The Third Policeman this week. I love that the writers openly reference books that influenced them - makes it easier to find the the books out there that are a little more obscure, but clearly very good.

I was just wondering if anyone has read Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

I'm making some connections to this Romantic epic. The Mariner is on a cursed ship because he did something wrong - killed the albatros. The ship is steared from above with the good sails and below by an evil unknown power source. The Mariner corners a wedding guest to tell his tail and release himself from the rime. Some theorist see this as the guest replacing him so that he may be free.

Do any of the well read people here see a connection?

Everybody, pick up Richard Flanagan's Gould's Book of Fish -- I would NOT be surprised if the creators of Lost were familiar with this book. It's basically about a con man who picks up an old journal/sketchbook by a guy named Gould, who turns out to have been a criminal in a penal colony on Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania -- which is where I personally think the Black Rock was headed). The prisoner assumed the name (Gould) of an older man he'd known previously in his life (sound familiar?) and his livelihood involved the painting of fish. Lots of similar themes -- trickery, survival, prisoners, retribution, redemption, etc.

I thought it was just nicely parallel and such, until I read on page 145 that there is a character (referenced, but never met) named Major de Groot. WOW.

And at the end, you learn that half of the book's wild characters are figments of Gould's imagination which certainly plays into some peoples' theories about the castaways on Lost.

Plus it's just an amazing, amazing book.

I totally see a connection here. Example - when Jack saved Boone from drowning but the other lady drown. Some didn't see her but he goes through a throw of emotion over his choice. The thought process for Jack was more important than the lost lostaway.

I was just wondering if anyone has read Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

I'm making some connections to this Romantic epic. The Mariner is on a cursed ship because he did something wrong - killed the albatros. The ship is steared from above with the good sails and below by an evil unknown power source. The Mariner corners a wedding guest to tell his tail and release himself from the rime. Some theorist see this as the guest replacing him so that he may be free.

Do any of the well read people here see a connection?

I have indeed read this -- there may not be a direct connection, because "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" has become a literary trope in and of itself (i.e. "albatross around the neck" has become synonymous with "major baggage"). But it's definitely parallel, and the passing down of the story from the Mariner to the wedding guest could be manifested in the passing down of "hatch duty" from Kelvin to Desmond to the losties.

I mentioned Gould's Book of Fish earlier, and come to think about it, it definitely shows signs of "Rime" as well. Both take the form of what's supposedly a worn-out old manuscript that's meant to be passed on so that the story can be told and retold (as evidenced by the glosses in "Rime" and the first chapter of Gould's, where a modern-day Tasmanian con artist picks up the eponymous book). Similar themes of burden and redemption (or lack thereof), too.

Good catch!

I mentioned Gould's Book of Fish earlier, and come to think about it, it definitely shows signs of "Rime" as well. Both take the form of what's supposedly a worn-out old manuscript that's meant to be passed on so that the story can be told and retold (as evidenced by the glosses in "Rime" and the first chapter of Gould's, where a modern-day Tasmanian con artist picks up the eponymous book). Similar themes of burden and redemption (or lack thereof), too.


Okay, I'm thinking I'll put down the Dark Tower and pick up Gould first.:smile:

Okay, I'm thinking I'll put down the Dark Tower and pick up Gould first.:smile:

OOOOH YESSSSSS! It's soooooo good. It's one of those books that I just absolutely adore. If you like it, read Matthew Kneale's English Passengers too -- also about Van Diemen's Land, and equally outrageous even though it isn't very Lost-y. Well, I guess it's also about con artists, and its plot revolves around a search for the Garden of Eden...

ah! Here I am. I'll add everyone in a sec. but first, I've actually some information to post!

I just read the post about Gould, and it reminded me of another Joestein Gaardner book I read, (he's the Sophie's World author). It is called the Solitiare Mystery.

http://www.readinggroupguides.com/guides/solitaire_mystery.asp
here's a synopsis and discussion questions ^

but in the end,
much like Gould, it is discovered that the first man on the island thought up the playing card inhabitants and they just came to life one day

and the fact that the book takes place on an island doesn't hurt.

Descartes is in a bar finishing up his drink. The bartender asks him if he would like another. Descartes responds, "I think not" and *poof* he was gone!!!

I've updated the members and book list on the front page.

They did show the Holy Bible in the tailies hatch last night. Should that be added to the list shown on the show?

I did. The Bible-number code descussion from way back when seems to have died down but so much of our literature is based off of the bible anyway. regardless of religious connotations,the stories it holds are still timeless. Who knows what we might find...

Hmm.Anyone read or know much about this book...Walden Two by B.F Skinner (who if you remember was referenced in the orientation film)

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/walden2/summary.html

I haven't abandoned the Wolves of Calle yet to read Gould but I will read Gould next. However, reading Wolves this weekend brings back all the connection between king's dark tower and his many other novels. I'm also noticing a bit of serendipity. Events that happen that cannot be written off by coincidence but cannot be linked to a higher meaning...yet.

King's Drawing of the three included 3 from New York who enter the dark territory (Roland's world) through 3 doors/portals. The 3 from New York are from 3 different time periods yet their lives have overlapped on a number of occasions. They learn these connection over the next 3 books. This reminds me of the connections between the lostaways. Especially how Shannon and Jack are connected and how I believe Locke and Hurley are connected.

It's almost like Lost is a combination of the Dark Tower and King's Lanoilers (plane crash through time portal). I almost think King must be a silent partner in Lost. Like when he was writing under the name Bachman.

I finished the illuminatus trilogy (finally.long book!) and can see some similarities with Lost.They are really just the ones I mentioned before about the Numbers and a small seemingly insignificant Island playing a role in the end of the world.
One other aspect I did notice is the way the narrative plays with time going forwards and backwards chronologically.
Started Stephen Kings The Stand (When I heard the official podcast this morning citing it as an influence it made me grin lol).I can definitely see the influences this book had on the show.The characters are so fleshed out and the way we get to see their lives BEFORE the catastrophic event that changes everything merely adds to this.

I'm so excited to see this thread revived! Just thought I'd share where I am in my reading. I've finished Lord of the Flies and the first Dark Tower book. Lord of the Flies seems to really have a lot of parallels right now with all the assorted groups on the island.

I'm now in the process of reading Turn of the Screw. It's finally starting to get interesting in a strange way. I just want to know where was I in highschool. I never had to read any of these books before, so it's been a lot of catching up for me... :)

I'm so excited to see this thread revived! Just thought I'd share where I am in my reading. I've finished Lord of the Flies and the first Dark Tower book. Lord of the Flies seems to really have a lot of parallels right now with all the assorted groups on the island.

I'm now in the process of reading Turn of the Screw. It's finally starting to get interesting in a strange way. I just want to know where was I in highschool. I never had to read any of these books before, so it's been a lot of catching up for me... :)

The first Dark Tower book was a little hard for me to get through. It's like you can tell that King wrote it in college. His writing has come so far. Drawing of the Three, Wastelands, Tailisman and Black House are my favorite King books that relate to the Dark Tower (Randel Flagg, Crimson King). My all time favorite King book is Bag of Bones. It's a book that posses the question "should future generations pay for the sins of the father".

PS: I NEVER read in high school. Didn't get into books until college. I've been catching up for 20yrs and loving it.

I've only read a couple of King's books "The Stand" and "It" both are really great books, just not what I like to read.

ABC made a TV movie of "The Stand" and a few other of King's novels so he might have a working connection with ABC.

The first Dark Tower book was a little hard for me to get through. It's like you can tell that King wrote it in college. His writing has come so far. Drawing of the Three, Wastelands, Tailisman and Black House are my favorite King books that relate to the Dark Tower (Randel Flagg, Crimson King).

Herk: Yea! I definitely have something to look forward to then. I actually liked the Gunslinger very much, although it was hard to get into.

ABC made a TV movie of "The Stand" and a few other of King's novels so he might have a working connection with ABC.

Sam: Since I have heard both that The Stand was a major influence of LOST, and that King himself is a big LOST fan, I have had a little theory that King was some type of silent partner of the show.

don't know if this was posted but

in official podcast 2 or 3 i can't remember DL & CC answer a post about the 3rd policeman. They say they have never read it and haven't read most of the books showcased on LOST. They did mention "The Stand", said it was a heavy influence and thanked Steven King for not sueing them for ripping him off.

don't know if this was posted but

in official podcast 2 or 3 i can't remember DL & CC answer a post about the 3rd policeman. They say they have never read it and haven't read most of the books showcased on LOST. They did mention "The Stand", said it was a heavy influence and thanked Steven King for not sueing them for ripping him off.

Sometimes I think people can point to a book and understand the major points of it without using the details. I think a good example of this is Turn of the Screw. It's just a really good example of the questionable/troubled/unreliable story teller. I think this idea is closely tied to the moments of overlapping story between what we were shown and what the tailenders saw. A turning point on the point-of-perspective thing.

I'm new to The Fuselage and was skimming around. I'd love to be a Bookworm! May I join?


I've read LotF, WD and The Stand. Looks like I have a lot more reading to do.

So many books, so little time. You're in great company turtletrackz.

Welcome!

Just finished the Bridge of San Luis Rey.It's similar in structure to Lost.There is an accident and then the book goes into flashback with each individual involved in the accident.Some of the flashbacks also overlap and reuse characters.

Hello, Bookwormers! I´m happy to have found this thread.

Ok, I’m afraid I don’t qualify as a bookworm for this list myself because reading fictional books is forbidden for me for a while, I just must finish in a few months something I’m writing, an academic thing, and I just can’t read any fictional book because I’m such a passionate reader that I can’t really put a book down until I’m finished. So, being of non-english background, the only books of this list that I’ve read are Alice in Wonderland, Sophie’s World, and the Bible and I can read no other of them for a while, but with your help, I guess I’ll be able to keep an eye on the important connections.

The point of my post here is to ask if any of you have read Umberto Eco’s “The Island of the Day Before”. My sister told me it reminded her of Lost a lot, but she cannot reread it either any time soon, although she remembers liking the book a lot. After a little search in internet I have found nobody mentioning it in connection to Lost. A summary in Amazon says the main character’s name is Robert (as Danielle’s husband), and he gets stranded by himself on a pacific island, close to the date change line, and there are lots of flashbacks to his previous life. Bad thing is that all happens in the XVIIth century, but Umberto Eco (Eko?) makes lots of connections with science, philosophy and religion. Some reviewers found it kind of heavy and some others a real good stuff. You know, that’s Eco’s style anyway. I’m sure it’s an interesting reading for some good bookworm as you guys, but I wouldn’t want to be held responsible if it turns out to be really boring. Anybody would like to give it a try and give us a little feedback?

Thank you, and keep this good thread alive.

I have seen on other threads the mention of Umberto Eco's work. You might want to try the search option to search for more active threads regarding Umberto.

Thank you, Herk, I finally managed to find something about it in a thread with the title: "Mr. Umberto Eco" in "General Theories". I had found nothing before. I guess I don't find my way around this board as well as I had thought.

Descartes is in a bar finishing up his drink. The bartender asks him if he would like another. Descartes responds, "I think not" and *poof* he was gone!!!

:24:

I've updated the members and book list on the front page.

Yay, great job. Thanks for reviving the thread.

I've only read a couple of King's books "The Stand" and "It" both are really great books, just not what I like to read.

ABC made a TV movie of "The Stand" and a few other of King's novels so he might have a working connection with ABC.

Sam G, I can't read anything scarey. I'm a pansy.

:24:

Yay, great job. Thanks for reviving the thread.

Sam G, I can't read anything scary. I'm a pansy.
Shootfire, King's books are beyond scary. His descriptions are very visual and there are scenes you will never forget, in a bad way. "It" is probably the one that I have the most lasting impressions from. Really good books, epic stories, but......a world where I wouldn't want to live.

:24:
.

Thank you! You're very good at positive reinforcement.

Not explicitly referenced in Lost, but suffusing it in style, cute verbal & visual allusions, and (I suspect) theme, is Watchmen.

Note especially for shootfire because you don't read King -

Many people on the Stephen King threads are bringing in a lot character analysis, which btw is air to my lungs. I just thought I would mention that many, myself included, see Roland the gunslinger in Locke. King has often said that he took more than just Roland's name from Robert Browning.

Browning is not my cup of tea, not that there's anything wrong with that. I read him in college but alas the years have gone by.

Those who don't read King - this one's for you - can you connect Locke's character to Browning's Roland?

Howdy, is it too late to join?

Howdy, is it too late to join?

I never really joined. I just hang out here. The best thing is that they haven't asked me to leave or anything.

;) :D

Note especially for shootfire because you don't read King -

Many people on the Stephen King threads are bringing in a lot character analysis, which btw is air to my lungs. I just thought I would mention that many, myself included, see Roland the gunslinger in Locke. King has often said that he took more than just Roland's name from Robert Browning.

Browning is not my cup of tea, not that there's anything wrong with that. I read him in college but alas the years have gone by.

Those who don't read King - this one's for you - can you connect Locke's character to Browning's Roland?

Thanks Herk. I actually watched The Stand on television years ago. For some reason, movies and television don't get into my psyche the same way a book does, though admittedly there are movies that I can't watch either. I suppose I have too vivid an imagination for my own good.:biggrin: Thanks for the Roland tip. The first time I tried to read SK was probably the last time for me.

Howdy, is it too late to join?
It's never too late. I'm sure LastNovember will be along soon to add you to the list.

I never really joined. I just hang out here. The best thing is that they haven't asked me to leave or anything.

;) :D

Herk, why haven't you joined? Obviously, you belong here.:smile:

Edited for punctuation error.

I'm an English teacher, and my freshman just finished Lord of the Flies . I really think Lost is a combination of Lord of the Flies and Watership Down. The plot is crazy similiar.

It suddenly occurs to me that this is probably already been discussed and now I'm just gonna look like one of those morons who didn't bother to read the whole thread.

It suddenly occurs to me that this is probably already been discussed and now I'm just gonna look like one of those morons who didn't bother to read the whole thread.

We really just post stream of consciousness here anyway. :biggrin:

I'm an English teacher, and my freshman just finished Lord of the Flies . I really think Lost is a combination of Lord of the Flies and Watership Down. The plot is crazy similiar.

I tend to agree with you, but with a bit of Alice in Wonderland thrown in for good measure. :)

Thanks for the kindness! You are right about Alice -- I hadn't thought of that.

Wow, just read through this entire thread. Great stuff! I would love to join (or at least hang out.) This is an important and interesting thread.

Herk, I'm with you. I never read my required reading in high school. I hated it. When I was 17, my first year of college, I read Stephen King's The Stand and since that time there has not been a day that I haven't been carrying a book on me. That was eight years ago. I can't read enough and I always feel like I'm catching up.

Of the books mentioned in this thread I've read The Stand, Watership Down, Hithchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy, and Sphere. As avid a reader as I like to consider myself, I have some very serious catching up to do just on this list. I am currently reading both The Turn of the Screw, and The Third Policeman.

Welcome Necrite98! Looks like you're well on your way down the reading list. Feel free to post any thoughts, connections, etc.

Well, I finished Turn of the Screw. I have to admit that's the first I've read on this list that I really didn't like. I had a hard time getting into it, so I probably missed a lot. I'll need to do some review of it online I guess.

I've looked everywhere for The Third Policeman. It's hard to find. My local library doesn't carry it, so I guess I'll have to get an interlibrary loan or something. So, I'm now starting book 2 of the Dark Tower series. We'll see how Roland fares on his quest.

Note especially for shootfire because you don't read King -

Many people on the Stephen King threads are bringing in a lot character analysis, which btw is air to my lungs. I just thought I would mention that many, myself included, see Roland the gunslinger in Locke. King has often said that he took more than just Roland's name from Robert Browning.

Browning is not my cup of tea, not that there's anything wrong with that. I read him in college but alas the years have gone by.

Those who don't read King - this one's for you - can you connect Locke's character to Browning's Roland?

I am very interested in this statement. Has anyone made the connection mentioned here by Herk? I've only read book one of The Dark Tower series, and never read Browning. I suppose I should.

I am very interested in this statement. Has anyone made the connection mentioned here by Herk? I've only read book one of The Dark Tower series, and never read Browning. I suppose I should.
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Browning_R/Childe.htm

Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came

I was just rewatching Walkabout, and I noticed that Jack made mention of Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad.
Jack: "Tell me something, how come every time there's a hike in the heart of darkness you sign up? You know what's in there."
I actually didn't know it was a book before, but one of the sailors is reading it in King Kong. Looks like the book is basically about a quest in the Belgian Congo on a riverboat and a comparison of the white men and the natives who live there. Guess that's another book I'll have to add to my list.

At this point, I'm not entirely convinced that we will really be able to garner any real insight into the show by reading the books mentioned. Damon and Carlton have stated in the podcast that they haven’t read the books mentioned or seen in the show. “The Third Policeman” was the book specifically referred to I believe.

I can see the relationship to “Watership Down” is the story of a group of castaways forming a new society and the struggles required to succeed. I think this was used in season 01 as foreshadowing to season 02, in which the lostaways stop trying to figure out how to get off the island (season 01) and start trying to establish a society and a life on the island (a theme that I think has been very prevalent in season 01 and I believe will only become more important as the story progresses…for proof of this see Jack’s comment about establishing an Army.) Beyond that, I didn’t really find anything too deep or revealing in “Watership Down”, though it was an excellent read. I highly recommend this one.

I have to admit that I have been stuck reading both "The Turn of the Screw" and "The Third Policeman" and honestly am having a very difficult time enjoying either of them.

"The Turn of the Screw" is written in such a style that I feel completely confused in the middle of what feel like some of the longest run-on sentences I've ever encountered. I have noticed some motifs in this one that bear a strong similarity to Lost, particularly the destructiveness of heroism (not knowing who is the hero and who is the villain of the story), the emphasis on vision and whether or not it can be trusted (strong connection to the number of Lost episodes which have begun with a shot of an opening eye) and the metaphor of a "ship lost at sea" of which the governess perceives herself to be at the helm. The corruption of the innocent is a motif which could come into play later where the Others are concerned, as they have kidnapped several children and seem to be very interested in them, though I doubt this one will come to much.
This sentence struck me as interesting: “What arrested me on the spot-and with a shock much greater than any vision had allowed for-was the sense that my imagination had, in a flash, turned real.” I found this interesting as it could relate to Walt. At times in the series I have had the feeling of Walt possessing the ability to make a reality of his imagination, but we haven’t seen much of that in a while.

Also, the phrase “the turn of the screw” means to drive home the point of a story and to turn up or increase the stakes of a story (as Douglas does by one-upping the previous story concerning one child with his concerning two.) When this book appears in the show, the writers are increasing the stakes with the discovery of the hatch, and more importantly, the Orientation film (which is stored behind Desmond’s copy of the book.) I would venture to say that the Orientation film is the show’s creative team’s way of driving home the point of the story.

"The Third Policeman" is simply so strange that I feel completely at a loss for what could be going on. I don't think I'm missing anything, I think a lot of things are just happening at random. If I can figure anything out as I read further I will certainly be back to share it.

Turn of the Screw: for me it brings into the Lost the theme of Point of View. In the book, the storyteller is crazy. That's why you feel the way you do in the middle of the book. Point of View is a point driven home by the creators by use of the symbolism of the eye. A lot of episodes have very important close up of a specific character's eye. The story is told through the creators/directors eyes .... The story is interpretted by the viewer's eye..... The scene is told through the character's eye...

An important question: Can you trust the what you see if it is filtered through the "eye" of a liar or a mad woman or what ever.?

okay, so here I am breaking the rules...this isn't a book entirely but....

I just saw Donnie Darko last night and I drew some sharp comparisons to Lost.

You may not want to visit these links if you haven't seen the movie and intend on doing so.

http://www.ruinedeye.com/cd/time1.htm <---- The fictional book from the movie The Philosophy of Time is an interesting read and this (http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net/ddfaq.htm) guide to the movie has one bit near the end....."Q. What does Donnie mumble when he has the knife held to his throat?

"Deus ex Machina", followed by "Our Saviour".

Q. What does "Deus Ex Machina" mean?

This is latin.

Deus = God

Ex = from the

Machina = Machine

Therefore, God from the Machine.

1. In Greek and Roman drama, a god lowered by stage machinery to resolve a plot or extricate the protagonist from a difficult situation.
2. An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot.
3. A person or event that provides a sudden and unexpected solution to a difficulty.

Reference: American Heritage Dictionary

Note that Deus Ex Machina is also mentioned in one of the deleted scenes related to the classroom discussion about Watership Down.
"




I thought you guys'll be alright with my post not being strictly book oriented since it does include a book to some degree, albeit a fictional book.

ETA: Necrite98, I've added you to the list, and now I'm going to scamper off and catch up on the rest of the thread...I'm sorry I haven't been around much, midterms and the like.

ETA2: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=8665&highlight=donnie+darko entire thread dedicated to this....oops.

Wasn't the god machine referenced as the plane that killed Boone? makes sense to me.

I am new here, but I have read the whole thread. My BA was in English, so this is perfect for me! =) I am especially struck by the similarities that exist between The Tempest, The Stand and Heart of Darkness (all some of my personal favorites). For those of you afraid of reading King, The Stand is not among his "scariest," at least in my opinion. It's more like The Dark Tower series than it is like Carrie or It.

I think some reading that has not been mentioned that should maybe be added to the list is some mythology. Greek mythology for the people who think the Apollo bars and some consellations / myths might be relevant to the symbology in the logos we've seen (I disagree, as some have said, that there are but six constellations of Apollo - I count at least eleven from which to choose).

I've not reallyl heard much discussion about a couple of the books that I think are pretty important, so I figured I could put in my two cents here:

Heart of Darkness is not just about exploring the Belgian Congo. It's about one man's descent into madness and another man's journey to that same edge. It's about what divides civilization from savagery - and how that's not always technology and nice pants versus spears and loincloths. It's about which is scarier: The dark unexplored regions of a map, or the dark unexplored regions of the soul. Plus it's an easy read at (I think) under two hundred pages. You get get some of the same themes in a better package in Lord Jim by the same author. But Brando never played in a big-screen Vietnam era adaptation of Lord Jim. (Apocalypse Now = HoD) =)

The Tempest has a LOT of parallels - down to the smoky / misty / cloudy monster! For you Sci Fi buffs out there, you can read the Tempest and /or check out the black and white classic Forbidden Planet (also good for you Leslie Nielsen fans - it's him starring in no less than a serious male lead role!), which is a version of the Shakespearean play in a futuristic setting.

I would like to see discussions about some of these other works as I think that they really have a lot of intriguing parallels!

I also am seeing a lot of similarities to 'Heart of Darkness' especially in the last few episodes. The changes that some people have noted in Locke's behavior, Charlie's struggle and Jack's move closer to the brink of rationality in particular.
Though they have not been directly referenced in LOST the fiction works of Jorge Luis Borges remind much of the feeling of LOST.

Welcome Sekhmet and Sioobhan! Thank you for validating Heart of Darkness for me. It is definitely on my reading list now.

I'm finding tons of parallels in The Dark Tower series by King. Roland seems so much like Locke. And, in The Drawing of the Three, the first scene with Eddie and the heroin and the plane is so much like Charlie.

I will concur that King's horror is too much for me, but both The Stand and The Dark Tower, so far, is really great.

Has anyone started to tackle the very real works of John Locke?

I've been thinking a lot about the conotations of words and in this case, stories. Maybe Lost mirrors so many of these stories, not because it is going to match them, but rather for the emotional effect it has on the people who watch and know the stories. The parallels to Lord of the Flies makes me excpect darkness and corruption of the innocent. Maybe that is what the writers are after.

Ooh, that's a great thought.

BTW, you're baby is a cutie. :smile:

Hello. I am new to this post so I apologize if I am repeating stuff.

It's been mentioned before that the book Mysterious Island relates to Lost because of the Joop project etc.

Now that Henry Gale is on the scene there are some interesting connections about the hot air balloon story.

Has anyone else read it?

Has anyone started to tackle the very real works of John Locke?

I guess we look at John Locke more as a political/historical figure rather than an author or character.

Because of John Locke, I have always traced the theme in the Lost. I see it as a sociology project - what type of government and society will they form. But I don't really put that stuff in this thread.

However, I have discussed Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies here because they are fictional books with society and politics as themes.

Currently, I am back to Animal Farm. I just keep thinking that John and Jack keep changing the rules, just like the ones on the side of the barn in the book. I also think there's a parallel because the rules in the book are written down and never discussed AND 99% of the animals can't read. It's just like on our island the big wigs like John, Jack and Sayid keep secrets from the rest of the people.

I have skimmed this thread and could find no link to this website so ghere goes my contribution.

A quick outline of The Third Policeman. Here are some quick quotes of particular signifigance that parallel Lost quite interestingly.

Purgatory Theory:
"De Selby is a natural sceptic of all known laws of physics, who cavalierly dismisses the evidence of human experience. He contends, for example, that “the permanent hallucination known conventionally as 'life' ”(98) is an effect of constantly walking in a particular direction around a sausage-shaped earth, and that night results from “accumulations of 'black air' ” (33)."

"“When you are writing about the world of the dead – and the damned – where none of the rules and laws (not even the law of gravity) holds good"

"If At Swim-Two-Birds is an expression of what might be, an exploration of the many roles that might be assumed in a life, The Third Policeman is its inverse."
Dharma Stations and strange apparatus/powers:
"he discovers the station of the third policeman of the title, Policeman Fox, who has custody of the black box. Fox reveals that the box does not contain money, but “omnium”, a substance MacCruiskeen once described as: “the essential inherent interior essence which is hidden in the root of the kernel of everything” (113), but which is literally everything one desires."

Link to the page:

http://www.litencyc.com/php/sworks.php?rec=true&UID=7924

What do you think?

The purgatory theory was debunked by the creators.

As for "Maternity Leave" - what was the book given to Gale? and I loved Gale's King reference. I think it was a joke between the creators and the audience.

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Sawyer was reading a book called Lancelot

Walker Percy: Lancelot (http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/knights/lancelot/percy.html)...hmmm, very interesting...
On the surface, this book has very little resemblance to the traditional Arthurian tales and the protagonist does not much seem like our typical Lancelot. The story is set in the New Orleans of the 1970s. What becomes clear is that this novel partly asks the question of what would Lancelot be like in our day and age?
In a land chivalry is meaningless, what happens to the epitome of chivalry? What happens to a crusader for goodness, when the idea of goodness is becomes horribly muddled? Percys answer is that he would probably become a drunk. This Lancelot does not stay drunk forever, though. When he wakes, since he cannot discover what good is anymore, he decides to find the essence of evil. If he can prove that evil, that sin, exists in a definite form, then good must likewise exist. And so begins his little crusade. While Percy shows how out-of-place a Lancelot is today, he also reveals that, in his own time, Lancelot might have been just as scary. All around this is a great book, and one worthy reading for any reason.

The Brothers Karamazov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_Karamazov)...lots of lost fun stuff here...
The Brothers Karamazov (Братья Карамазовы in Russian, /'bratʲjə karə'mazəvɨ/) is generally considered one of the greatest novels by the Russian author Fyodor Dostoevsky and the culmination of his life's work. It has been acclaimed all over the world by authors as diverse as Sigmund Freud, Andrew R. MacAndrew, Konstantin Mochulsky, Albert Einstein, and Pope Benedict XVI and is often regarded as a masterpiece of literature and one of the greatest novels ever written. The book is written on two levels: on the surface it is the story of a patricide in which all of the murdered man's sons share varying degrees of complicity but, on a deeper level, it is a spiritual drama of the moral struggles between faith, doubt, reason, and free will. The novel was composed mostly in Staraya Russa, which is also the main setting of the book. Dostoevsky spent nearly two years writing The Brothers Karamazov, which was published as a serial in The Russian Messenger, and completed in November of 1880. He died less than four months after publication.
from http://www.amazon.com/ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679729259/ref=nosim/102-8429254-8532955?n=283155)
There are few words to describe this towering achievement: Magnificent. Chilling. Overwhelming. Ferocious. Intense. Uplifting. Dostoevsky's masterpiece, published just months before his death, is the single greatest book I have ever read. Every book I'd encountered is just a pale shadow of this one, for it contains everything the human heart holds dear. What I truly love about this book is its depiction of human suffering and evil--why, even the Devil himself makes an appearance, as an old Frenchman who engages atheist Karamazov brother Ivan in a philosophical discussion. The Devil takes the old Latin phrase, "I am human, therefore nothing human is alien to me" and changes it to: "I am Satan, therefore nothing human is alien to me." Jesus. My blood runs cold at the perfection of that. And Ivan himself says to his young Christian brother Alyosha: "I believe that if the Devil exists, man created him in his own image." These are some of the truest, most profound words ever spoken....

That King reference was great!

Thanks for the summaries, bri.

Walker Percy: Lancelot (http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/knights/lancelot/percy.html)...hmmm, very interesting...


The Brothers Karamazov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_Karamazov)...lots of lost fun stuff here...

from http://www.amazon.com/ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679729259/ref=nosim/102-8429254-8532955?n=283155)

I am currently right in the middle of "Lord of the Flies" (shamefully for the first time...not sure how I've gone 25 years and managed to never read that) but I think I will be reading "Lancelot" by Walker Percy next. Percy is a really good author. I recommend his "The Moviegoer" to anyone out there lookign for a good (though not Lost-related) existential read. I wonder if the plot of the novel will be in any way related to Lost, or is it just a shout out by TPTB to the city of New Orleans, as many of Percy's novels are set there.

And LastNovember, thanks again for starting this thread. I really enjoy a thread that I can come back to every few days or weeks, check in, and take part in some great Lost-related book discussion.

As an English teacher I applaud your digging to Lord of the Flies! I always enjoy discovering a new book.

As an English teacher I applaud your digging to Lord of the Flies! I always enjoy discovering a new book.
So far it's great.

"Sucks to your Auntie!"

"Sucks to your a**-mar!"

That's good stuff.

just wait

That's what my wife keeps telling me. The other day I was talking and she had something to say and she interrupted with "Hey, I have the conch!"

I didn't get it, but the next day I read far enough that I understood.

TWT
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=995&pos=339 Stars

Judy Blume
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=995&pos=235 Are you there God? It's me, Margaret.

For anybody who is interested (or trying to sneak in your reading while at work) you can read the whole text of The Brother's Karimozov online at:

http://www.ccel.org/d/dostoevsky/karamozov/karamozov.html

Can anybody make out any of the books in this picture? I see the one titled "Stars" and I see a Danielle Steele novel but I can't make out the title.

http://static.flickr.com/40/116889060_139b5e4021_o.jpg

I'm going to guess either Malice or Miracle on the Danielle Steel one. However, Miracle came out in June of 2005, so probably not that. (Yay for Amazon!)

Can anybody make out any of the books in this picture? I see the one titled "Stars" and I see a Danielle Steele novel but I can't make out the title.

http://static.flickr.com/40/116889060_139b5e4021_o.jpg

The red one with the gold lettering at the top of the image (as it is oriented in the link above) might be A History of World Societies (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395944899/ref=sib_rdr_dpp/104-6346998-4279158?me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155) by Bennett D. Hill, John Buckler, Patricia Buckley Ebrey, John P. McKay.

The fourth book down on the left side might be A Hooded Crow (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060179546/qid=1143160968/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6346998-4279158?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) by Craig Thomas.

I am just going by what I could read in the picture. I don't have copies of either book and cannot verify the exact look of them.

The red one with the gold lettering at the top of the image (as it is oriented in the link above) might be A History of World Societies (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395944899/ref=sib_rdr_dpp/104-6346998-4279158?me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155) by Bennett D. Hill, John Buckler, Patricia Buckley Ebrey, John P. McKay.

The fourth book down on the left side might be A Hooded Crow (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060179546/qid=1143160968/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6346998-4279158?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) by Craig Thomas.

I am just going by what I could read in the picture. I don't have copies of either book and cannot verify the exact look of them.

By the words I got from those two, I'd say you're right.

The red one with the gold lettering at the top of the image (as it is oriented in the link above) might be A History of World Societies (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395944899/ref=sib_rdr_dpp/104-6346998-4279158?me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155) by Bennett D. Hill, John Buckler, Patricia Buckley Ebrey, John P. McKay.

The fourth book down on the left side might be A Hooded Crow (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060179546/qid=1143160968/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6346998-4279158?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) by Craig Thomas.

I am just going by what I could read in the picture. I don't have copies of either book and cannot verify the exact look of them.

Wow. Good catch.

This thread is interesting; I had fun going through it. I generally don't read that often. Maybe about 1-2 books a year. This thread has sparked my interest to read some of the books mentioned. Now I have a long list of stuff I want to read, which is cool.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0006471749.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Interesting image for the Hooded Crow there.

This thread was very fun to read through. I've picked up several of the books mentioned from the library.

The creators saying they never read any of them was truly a bummer. But if Lost is as deep as we think it is, they had to get their inspiration from somewhere, right? One doesn't pull all of these ideas out of thin air...

I was a little bummed too when I heard that the producers hadn't read the books, but I think it's still great that the writers can give shout outs to books which they feel tie into the mythology and themes of Lost, and expose us to a few works we might not read otherwise.

I'm not at all surprised that the producers haven't read the book. You know none of the creators of O Brother, Where Art Thou, have ever finished the Odyssey -- which is what the movie was based on.

I don't know, the Coen brother are pretty smart guys. They may have read it.

No, they confessed that they've never finished it. No one who worked on the film had.

I just finished reading The Island of Dr. Moreau. The two similarities I found that it had to Lost was the deification of Moreau. It reminded me of how Desmond questioned Locke, "Are you him?" or Fake Henry's apparent fear of a power greater than even Mr. Zeke. Unlike Lost Moreau wasn't really super mysterious; the reader is quite aware of his limitations. This may or may not be a clue to whoever Fake Henry is referring to. Perhaps the man he fears is not that powerful at all. The beasts on the island revered and feared Dr. Moreau, and unwittingly could (and did) destroy him at any given moment with sheer physical strength. Dr. Moreau's power over then was totally psychological. I'm wondering if a similar thing is going on in Lost.

The other similarity is the supposed legless creature Moreau had created (although killed) which reminded me slightly of the monster. This creature was endlessly angry and destructive and moved around like a serpent. The monster/security system/Cerberus in Lost at least seems sort of angry and is somewhat of a serpent, except it is quite a capable mover while aerial. Like this serpent, Cerberus appears to be an experiment that eventually went wrong and perhaps now roams the island on its own whims. Then again, perhaps it's under complete control.

The book was rather short, I was expecting something a few hundred pages.

I was disappointed about the producers not having read the books too, but some of them must have read some of them (say that 3 times fast!). I finished The Stand a few weeks ago and ran across this interesting paragraph:

"Old dynamite sweats, dear heart," he said, and looked up at her. She saw that his entire face was running with sweat, as if to prove his point. "It perspires, to be perfectly couth. And what it perspires is pure nitroglycerin, one of the world's great unstable substances. So if it's old, there's a very good chance that this little Science Fair Project could blow us right over the top of Flagstaff Mountain and all the way to the Land of Oz."

Sounds like Dr. Arzt and his ill-fated trip to the Black Rock. It's not what Arzt said verbatim (This is what he did say: http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Exodus_II_Lost.htm) but it sounds awfully familiar. And I got a kick out of the "Oz" reference.

The character Stuart Redman in the Stand also reminds me a little bit of Sawyer. Southern, tough guy with a heart of gold, he's not a con man, but he's not "Mr. Follow the Letter of the Law" either. And he read Watership Down.

There are enough other references in Lost to make me think at least one of them has read "The Stand". If you haven't read it, it's a very long, interesting, not so scarey (if you're not a Stephen King fan) book. I was a little disappointed in the ending because I felt that it didn't deliver, but I think it's still worth a read.

MB

The Logo font and photo today looks familiar, like a book cover but I cant' put my finger on it.

Any ideas?

SOS

A-L was looking at an atlas.

The page that Locke drew the 2nd map on
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=918189#post918189

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1039&pos=643

36. ON THE BEGINNINGS OF MESDEMOISELLES RACHEL AND PAULINE GARCIA
(thanks munkie_boy)
Thus therefore, although one says, she does not dry up,
The immortal source and fertilizes
What the divine messenger fit to gush under its steps;
She always exists, this sap of the world,
She flows, and the gods are again here low!


To what serve us therefore frivolous so many fights,
So many efforts always vain and always reemerging?
A chaos if pompeux of useless words,
And so powerless hammers
Striking the former idols?


Let us discourse on the arts, let us do the connoisseurs;
We will have beautiful to change errors
As a libertine of mistress,
The lilas in the spring will always be in flowers,
And the immortal arts will rejuvenate continually.


Let us discuss our breadth, our dreams and our tastes,
Compare to leisure the modern one and the antique one,
And clank under these jealous flags!
When we will be at the end of our rhetoric,
Two born children of yesterday some will know more than we.


O young hearts fill with antique poetry,
Be the welcomes, children cherish gods
You have the same age and it same genius.
The soft clarity is blessed
What do you bring back in our eyes!


Go! that the happiness follows you!
This is not chance an inconstant whim
Who you fit to be born to the same instant.
Your here low mother, this is the Wanders around attentive
Who on the sacred fire watches eternally.


Obey without fear to the god that inspires you.
Are unaware of, if it can itself, that we talk about you.
These complaints, these agreements, these pleurs, this soft one to smile,
All your treasures, give them-we
Sing children, do we leave to say.


1839.

I was disappointed about the producers not having read the books too, but some of them must have read some of them (say that 3 times fast!). I finished The Stand a few weeks ago and ran across this interesting paragraph:

"Old dynamite sweats, dear heart," he said, and looked up at her. She saw that his entire face was running with sweat, as if to prove his point. "It perspires, to be perfectly couth. And what it perspires is pure nitroglycerin, one of the world's great unstable substances. So if it's old, there's a very good chance that this little Science Fair Project could blow us right over the top of Flagstaff Mountain and all the way to the Land of Oz."

Sounds like Dr. Arzt and his ill-fated trip to the Black Rock. It's not what Arzt said verbatim (This is what he did say: http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Exodus_II_Lost.htm) but it sounds awfully familiar. And I got a kick out of the "Oz" reference.

The character Stuart Redman in the Stand also reminds me a little bit of Sawyer. Southern, tough guy with a heart of gold, he's not a con man, but he's not "Mr. Follow the Letter of the Law" either. And he read Watership Down.

There are enough other references in Lost to make me think at least one of them has read "The Stand". If you haven't read it, it's a very long, interesting, not so scarey (if you're not a Stephen King fan) book. I was a little disappointed in the ending because I felt that it didn't deliver, but I think it's still worth a read.

MB
Sounds very similar to what Artz said. Good find. Whoever wrote that scene read that book for sure.

I'm reading the Third Policeman and I'm nearly finished. I must say it is the most nonsensical book I've ever read. It started of intriguing and humorous, but it really dragged during the middle. I can't say there's really any decent stuff in there upon which to theorize with, especially since the central concept of the book is a debunked theory.

I must say, I'm really disappointed.

I can't take credit for this one. I found it in the Movie thread that I visit. I saw Death of a Salesman on Broadway with Duston Hoffman.

It refers to "Ben" who coaxed Willie into killing himself. Ben was in his head but was also a real person who was already dead.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=926953&postcount=37

Just thought I would say hi to everyone. I'm new to the Fuselage, these boards and this thread. I wish I had found this much earlier.

I wish I could say that I have read the books that are shown in LOST but alas I have not. I would consider my self an avid reader and probably have over 300 hard back books, some passed from my mother. My library is over flowing. I hope to have an opportunity to find and read these books.

Paty

Welcome to the Fuselage, JustPaty! This is a great thread. I still enjoy keeping up with it. I am in the same boat you are. I read a lot, but most of the books in this show I just had never gotten to. Since I began watching however, I have read a few and I can tell you that they are worth it. The books probably will not provide huge insight into the mysteries of Lost, but they are good reads.

I recommend starting with Watership Down. I loved that book, and had never read it prior to watching the show. Also, Stephen King's The Stand is one of my all time favorites and, according to the producers of the show, a HUGE influence for them.

Welcome to the fuse! If you want an easy entertaining read try Are you There God, It's Me Margaret. Sawyer was reading it! Just kidding!

Welcome to the fuse! If you want an easy entertaining read try Are you There God, It's Me Margaret. Sawyer was reading it! Just kidding!

I was thinking of picking that one up for my neice!:) Who would have thought Sawyer would read anything he got his hands on! Who knows how many books could be on a plane. Sometimes I have two with me on a flight in case I finish one.

Back to Are You There: I've read the back cover and you could link it to the Lost.

Welcome JustPaty! I know what you mean, so many books so little time. :)

I have to say though, for the most part I've really enjoyed the LOST book selections. They picked some great ones. I can't say that I enjoyed The Third Policeman. It was just to weird, with no seeming real plot. (At least not as far as I read. I didn't finish it.)

@kalykokatt - new avatar. Nicest cat I've seen!

@kalykokatt - new avatar. Nicest cat I've seen!

Thanks! She's the master of manipulation, so it's hard to tell how much or when she's really being nice. ;)

I have to say though, for the most part I've really enjoyed the LOST book selections. They picked some great ones. I can't say that I enjoyed The Third Policeman. It was just to weird, with no seeming real plot. (At least not as far as I read. I didn't finish it.)

Having just finished The Third Policeman, I will agree that the book is completely wack-a-doodle, however, I found it so bizarre that I actually enjoyed it!

I'll use spoiler fonts for anybody who is still reading the book or wants to.

The main character in this book is not in the debunked purgatory, but rather, I think, is in Hell. Hell in this book is a never ending cycle of confusion for the main character (and apparently most readers) and if you can get past the red, bloated policeman who are obsessed with bicycle thefts in the story, I think there are a lot of interesting things to the book, not the least of which is the author's repetitive use of the number 23.

A quote from the publisher notes at the end of the book struck me - apparently the author wrote:

"Joe (the name the main character gives to his soul) had been explaining things in the meantime. He said it was again the beginning of the unfinished, the re-discovery of the familiar, the re-experience of the already suffered, the fresh-forgetting of the unremembered. Hell goes round and round. In shape it is circular and by nature it is interminable, repetitive and very nearly unbearable."

It made me think about the original title of the Lost series, which I have read was "The Circle". Whereas I don't actually think the Losties are in Hell, I do think that everything that is happening to them is cyclical. The flashbacks are a perfect example of how the characters actions in their former lives come back to haunt them. I seem to remember that in the first season when Sawyer heard whispers in the jungle they said, "it will come back around." In other words, what you have done in the past will affect your future (and maybe even your afterlife!)

The Third Policeman is completely surreal, but I found it interesting precisely because of that.

Having just finished The Third Policeman, I will agree that the book is completely wack-a-doodle, however, I found it so bizarre that I actually enjoyed it!

The Third Policeman is completely surreal, but I found it interesting precisely because of that.

I'm so glad you were able to enjoy it and pull some interesting thoughts and symbolisms from it. The exploration of his thoughts were very interesting and how he realized that as things physically changed then he ceased to remember them (ie his name and his watch). I don't remember the number 23f, but I might not have gotten that far yet. However, I did find the part with the boxes and the point so sharp you can't see it fascinating.

In light of LOST I like your thoughts on hell being a neverending cycle. I don't think they're in hell (which I don't think you do either), but I like the tie in with the "it'll come back around." It definitely fits in with "The Circle" in a more abstract way.

There was definitely deep thoughts to be had, but for me the bizarre imagination and abstract plotline made it insufferable. (Just not my type of genre..) Cool thoughts. I definitely am interested in what others have been able to pull from it.

Hi all, I've been on the 'lage for about 2 months and just found this thread. I'm so excited because I love to read and I'm always looking for new titles. I'm always glad to find other avid readers. They're hard to find in this day in age.

Welcome pissedofgirafe! Enjoy!

Welcome to the club pissedoffgiraffe!

I don't know if anyone else has read or is reading the new "Unlocking the Meaning of Lost" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402207263/qid=1146238871/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-4677192-8017417?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) book that was released a week or so ago, but there are some really good discussions on what they call "ancestor texts" to Lost. I really enjoyed the author's discussion of the various books (they also talked about TV shows and movies) that we have talked about here.

The one book that the most time was spent examining was "The Stand". The author draws some really good parallels between characters from the book and Lost.

I enjoyed this one, and recommend it to any Lost fan. Be warned however that no brand new information is to be found in the book. Despite that, it is a good Lost reference guide.

Hello B.O.O.K W.O.R.M.S
There is a good link in my signature below to a list of lost books over on lost-forum.com showing some of the covers as seen in the show. That post also has a link to the full online comic (Green Lantern) that appears in Lost. I was interested to see "The Bridge of San Luis Rey, Thornton Wilder (NUM)" on the B.O.O.K W.O.R.M.S list, as I had not seen that one listed elsewhere and did not notice it in the show. I'll have to check it out.

I have read:
- Watership Down, Richard Adams
- A Wrinkle in Time, Madeline l'Engel
- The Green Lantern, Faster Friends #1 (Walt/Hurley's comic book)

Also,
> The Watchmen, Alan Moore (highly recommended)

Read, but not recently:
- Lord of the Flies, William Golding
- The Stand, Stephen King
- The Dark Tower Series, Stephen King
- Sphere, Micheal Crichton (conjuring things from the mind)
- Shakespeare, Othello (Dominick Monaghan comapares his character to Iago in E-online interview)
- The Tempest, Shakespeare (shipwreck on island, discussed in a tv guide article)
- Taming of the Shrew, Shakespeare (parallels between Kate and Sawyer)
- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe (connection to number 42)
- Sophie's World, Joestein Gaardner (philosophy connections) (although I never finished it - need to pick it up again)
- The Island of Dr. Moreau (island)
> The Epic of Gilgamesh
> The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, by Frank Baum

Not read yet:
- The Third Policeman, Flan O'Brien (Orientation-I think)
- Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Caroll (White Rabbit) (read parts, but never straight through)
- The Bridge of San Luis Rey, Thornton Wilder (NUM)
- The Bible (The Other 48) (read parts, of course, but not Lost references in particular)
- The Queen's Gambit (recommended by Javi)
- The Island, Peter Benchley(creepy islands)
- Gould's Book of Fish, Richard Flanagan (conman, island, etc)
- The Illuminatus Trilogy,Wilson and Robert Shea's (Number 23,eyes, among other things)
- The Rule of Four, Ian Caldwell & Dustin Thomason (riddles)
- The Solitaire Mystery, Joestein Gaardner (islands, fate)

Also not read, but on the list for Lost at lost-forum.com:
> The Turn of the Screw, Henry James
> An Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge, Ambrose Bierce
> The Brothers Karamazov, Fyordor Dostoevsky (available online)
> Lancelot, Walker Percy
> Are you There God? It's Me Margaret, Judy Bloome (I can probably skip this one ;) )
> Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad (I can't believe I never read this, but I haven't)

Whew, what did I miss?

Posted elsewhere (Is this a good/complete list?):These are the scriptures (partial visible on Ep 10) written on Ekos 'Jesus Stick'
Revelations 5:3
Psalms 25
Colesians T:4?
Titus 3: ?
Plus the word "Hateth"Lost also reminds me of some of C.S.Lewis writings (Screwtape Letters perhaps), and maybe Dante's Inferno. Not that I believe Lost is Purgatory, but some of the themes are there.

Side note, reading "Watership Down" led me to read another Richard Adams book called "The Plague Dogs" and it was very entertaining. I have also been looking at some writings by R. Buckminster Fuller somewhat in relation to Lost (trying to figure out the geometry of the blast door maps and noticing the geodesic dome of the Hatch).

Happy Reading!

When you list it like that, it is a really extensive reading list!

^ Agreed. Now I need about a month of vacation and a nice beach to plant myself on to get through all these :grin:

The only time I have to read, I spend on the 'lage. If I want to read more, I need to say away from the computer.

I don't know if anyone else has read or is reading the new "Unlocking the Meaning of Lost" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402207263/qid=1146238871/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-4677192-8017417?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) book that was released a week or so ago, but there are some really good discussions on what they call "ancestor texts" to Lost. I really enjoyed the author's discussion of the various books (they also talked about TV shows and movies) that we have talked about here.

The one book that the most time was spent examining was "The Stand". The author draws some really good parallels between characters from the book and Lost.

I enjoyed this one, and recommend it to any Lost fan. Be warned however that no brand new information is to be found in the book. Despite that, it is a good Lost reference guide.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I went over to Amazon and checked it out. It's definitely on my wish list. I also noticed that there's another book Getting Lost : Survival, Baggage, and Starting Over in J. J. Abrams' Lost (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932100784/ref=wl_it_dp/103-8267582-1644614?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1JYMSPDQP6ODT&coliid=I2DF5UF712IONN&v=glance&n=283155) set to release in August which is edited by one of my favorite authors, Orson Scott Card. I'm so excited!


The only time I have to read, I spend on the 'lage. If I want to read more, I need to say away from the computer.

This is my problem too. I used to read all the time before I had a computer. Tis the price we pay for the great technology of the world. ;)

Another piece of "Oceanic literature" that might be of interest to the B.O.O.K.W.O.R.M.S. crowd is Matthew Kneale's "English Passengers." Elements that might interest you all are...

-- a big ensemble cast of colorful, conflicting characters -- and their flashbacks!
-- the conflict between a "man of science" and a "man of faith," both of whom are horrendously dislikeable characters. There also happens to be an ill-tempered, womanizing slacker on the side who can't stand either of them.
-- spirituality and redemption (one of the characters is a quiet, tortured Aboriginal man with a dark past)
-- the notion of "special" places, in this case Tasmania, which some of the characters believe contains the Garden of Eden (Adam & Eve!)
-- Australian/Tasmanian penal colonies (takes place around the same time as the Black Rock, which many 'lagers suspect may have been a prison ship)
-- con artists, as the plot involves a ship full of rum smugglers that's posing as a charter ship in order to avoid capture. There's a great scene early on where the smugglers are stealing silverware.
-- an irritating wombat whose antics rather remind me of Sawyer's boar/tree frog escapades

PLUS, it's OUTRAGEOUSLY FUNNY. Read "Gould's Book of Fish," and then read this one, and you'll have a perfect introduction to mid-19th-century Australian/Oceanic history.

Thanks for the heads up there carodeluxe! That sounds like a really interesting book. I added it to my Amazon wishlist. That list is filling up with Lost related books these days.

Howdy Bookworms.
I remember Yung mentioning VALIS by Phillip K. Dick. So I dug up a copy I had around and began to read.

Horselover Fat is losing his mind, he tries to understand this by doing extensive research in between suicide attempts. At some point he had written an exegesis that he occasionally refers to which seems to eerily relate to some major plot points in Lost. Here's a couple of passages from Fat's exegesis:
1: One Mind there is; but under it two principles contend.
2. The Mind lets in the light, then the dark; in interaction; so time is generated. At the end Mind awards victory to the light; time ceases, and the mind is complete.
The entire exegesis itself is pretty mind blowing and somehow seems relevant. So I would suggest that book be added to the list of non referenced books.

Another non referenced book that I would suggest is "The Age of Spiritual Machines" by Ray Kurzweil
This is not a work of fiction but a theory about an exponential trend of technological evolution.

Carodeluxe, "Gould" and "Fish" makes me think of Stephen Gould and Cambrian explosion writings ... but I gather this is a different Gould...

By the way, you have nice, um, eye. ;) (*wonders if the right eye is boogly*)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re-reading "Lord of the Flies" ... it holds up well...

- Jack, a choir boy before, is leader of the boar hunters (choir) on the island.
- One chapter "Beast from Water" reminds me of Ethan attacking from the sea.
- Simon hallucinates in the Jungle.
- On the island, they wonder about the fate of the external world (Atomic war in progress), while worrying about a "Beast" on the island.
- They eat a bunch of fruit, and are very glad when they get boar to eat.
- They build a signal fire and struggle with keeping it going through the story.

-----
Edit: Okay, finished off "Lord of the Flies" and had a few more comments:

- Simon is killed in a frenzied dance in a thunder storm, mistaken (more or less) for the "Beast." - this is somewhat similar to Shannon being killed by mistake in the rain. The real danger, in both cases, was fear and panic, rather than some external threat.
- There are twins, Sam and Eric, become treated as one, and called Samneric.
- In the Castle Rock chapter, when the tribe grabs the twins, it says "Now the painted group felt the otherness of Samneric..."
- When Ralph is hiding under the thicket in the Cry of the Hunters chapter, he sees a hunter's legs approaching - reminded me of the view Eko and Jin had of the Other's as they ran by in the jungle.
- At the end, they appear as a group of children with sharp sticks - reminded me of Locke's comment when they were discussing what to do about Ethan's threats, when Jack decided to get the guns.
- The relationship of Ralph and Jack in Lord of the Flies is similar to that between Jack and Locke in Lost. The first is a better leader in each, while the second fills the role of boar hunter. They are also similar to Jack and Sawyer, man of civilization vs. man of the wild.
- I am tempted to compare Piggy as advisor to Ralph in Lord of the Flies to Hurley in relation to Jack, but it's a stretch.
- Piggy's glasses, being broken and later stolen, involve the eyes, and connect them with power (fire-making) and civilization... There is a bunch of eye related imagery in Lost, though unexplained so far. And, of course, Sawyer's glasses.
- In the notes by E.L. Epstein at the end of the book, he calls the story a "test situation", not a simple adventure story, but a larger commentary on the nature of society and the role of individual personality in shaping society.

There is nothing I can think of in Lost comparable to two major symbols in Lord of the Flies ... the conch (used to call meetings, and as a symbol of civilization and order), and the pig's head on a stake (Beezlebub, the Lord of the Flies, anarchy, the darkness in mankind).

Good day dear BW's**MOD edited to remove your own thread/theory pimping...all handed you some points**

P.S. I'd like an official BW number please :biggrin:

Sorry folks... Thought it might have interested you guys since it was book related.

Carodeluxe, "Gould" and "Fish" makes me think of Stephen Gould and Cambrian explosion writings ... but I gather this is a different Gould...

By the way, you have nice, um, eye. ;) (*wonders if the right eye is boogly*)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re-reading "Lord of the Flies" ... it holds up well...

- Jack, a choir boy before, is leader of the boar hunters (choir) on the island.
- One chapter "Beast from Water" reminds me of Ethan attacking from the sea.
- Simon hallucinates in the Jungle.
- On the island, they wonder about the fate of the external world (Atomic war in progress), while worrying about a "Beast" on the island.
- They eat a bunch of fruit, and are very glad when they get boar to eat.
- They build a signal fire and struggle with keeping it going through the story.

-----
Edit: Okay, finished off "Lord of the Flies" and had a few more comments:

- Simon is killed in a frenzied dance in a thunder storm, mistaken (more or less) for the "Beast." - this is somewhat similar to Shannon being killed by mistake in the rain. The real danger, in both cases, was fear and panic, rather than some external threat.
- There are twins, Sam and Eric, become treated as one, and called Samneric.
- In the Castle Rock chapter, when the tribe grabs the twins, it says "Now the painted group felt the otherness of Samneric..."
- When Ralph is hiding under the thicket in the Cry of the Hunters chapter, he sees a hunter's legs approaching - reminded me of the view Eko and Jin had of the Other's as they ran by in the jungle.
- At the end, they appear as a group of children with sharp sticks - reminded me of Locke's comment when they were discussing what to do about Ethan's threats, when Jack decided to get the guns.
- The relationship of Ralph and Jack in Lord of the Flies is similar to that between Jack and Locke in Lost. The first is a better leader in each, while the second fills the role of boar hunter. They are also similar to Jack and Sawyer, man of civilization vs. man of the wild.
- I am tempted to compare Piggy as advisor to Ralph in Lord of the Flies to Hurley in relation to Jack, but it's a stretch.
- Piggy's glasses, being broken and later stolen, involve the eyes, and connect them with power (fire-making) and civilization... There is a bunch of eye related imagery in Lost, though unexplained so far. And, of course, Sawyer's glasses.
- In the notes by E.L. Epstein at the end of the book, he calls the story a "test situation", not a simple adventure story, but a larger commentary on the nature of society and the role of individual personality in shaping society.

There is nothing I can think of in Lost comparable to two major symbols in Lord of the Flies ... the conch (used to call meetings, and as a symbol of civilization and order), and the pig's head on a stake (Beezlebub, the Lord of the Flies, anarchy, the darkness in mankind).

Excellent analysis! What about the hatch being the equivaliant of the conch -- the conch symbolized control and order -- whoever controls the hatch is in control -- Locke versus Jack. It is a bit of a stretch but I thought of it while reading.

The pig's head on stick . . . in the end the evil was inside the boys themselves -- so what about smokey -- especially after we saw Eko look straight into and saw images. Maybe when you look into Smokey you see inside yourself.

I also thought the Ralph/Jack and Locke/Jack comparison was interesting because the book said that Ralph was better looking than Jack and therefore more popular. Some would argue that Jack is better looking than Locke and that is why people respond to him as a leader. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I used to try and convince myself that just like Lord of the Flies there wouldn't really be any danger from the others that it was just the fear of what might be that was bringing stress and danger - but since Henry and the taking of Walt, I guess that doesn't hold up any more.

I hadn't thought of the Shannon/Simon parallel -- although all the boys (even the good ones) participated in Simon's death and only Ana Lucia shot Shannon. Hmmm. . .

I would like to recommend Robin Cook's "Chromosome 6" to the B.O.O.K W.O.R.M.S

It involves a big corporation funding genetic research, DNA transfers between people and bonobo apes, a modern hospital for organ transplants in equatorial Africa, and some issues of medical ethics that come up in using apes for research. Sounds weighty, but is actually pretty light summer fare. And it seems fairly close to some of the hinted material about the transgenic Joop over on thehansofoundation.org

Allo all! CRAZY episode huh?

I'm scrolling through the board now, adding to the big bookworm list but I cannot stress enough that the easiest thing to do if you need to get in touch with me is through private messaging. If you want a bookworms number or notice an error on the big list PM me and I'll hop right to it. Thanks!



Edited for spelling errors


ETA: I've begun the process of linking each book title in our master list to the post from which it was suggested or explained, that way you won't have to wade through the entire thread for choice information. Just wanted you all to know what's new.

That is an awesome idea, LostNovember

Can I be a B.O.O.k W.O.R.M, too?* I'm fairly new to the site, but one of the first things that caught my eye was the 'reading list', especially Watership Down.* I am a book geek and I can't wait to really re-read Watership Down and find some arcane symbolism, or just the obvious.* Love LOTF and Wrinkle, too.* Haven't read The Stand, though, but I'm definitely going to now.* Any other recommended readings that I should be aware of?*There's a good link in my signature (showing book covers, and with some links to online material for some items).

Also, see this post by me earlier in this thread, for a pretty long list of titles:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=949305&postcount=213


Edit: I just realized that I got confused somehow and replied to a post that is over a year old (quoted above) ... oh well, someone might find this post helpful. :doh:

Just found something interesting that I think all of us bookworms might want to look into. I think we should perhaps add Aldous Huxley's "Island" to the reading list if it hasn't been already.

The Pearl Orientation tape's reference to the "Pala Ferry" last night could possibly relate to Huxley's fictitious utopian island Pala in this book!

The most interesting thing to me is that Pala is a utopian island where science and religion are combined in an attempt to reach the true inner self. Science and religion combined? Sounds terribly familiar.

Check this out:
http://www.huxley.net/island/

I'm off to the library to check it out!

I was re-reading English Passengers last night because I was inspired to return to it from this thread, and came across an uncannily Lost-like occurrence. It is, however, near the end of the book, so I'm spoiler-fonting it. I don't think it ruins TOO much, except that it reveals that one of the characters almost dies but doesn't. But you might not want to read it if you're planning to read the book and are totally spoiler-phobic.

At one point, the characters are attempting to reach the summit of a mountain in Tasmania because they've been led to it by their expedition leader, a fanatical "man of faith" who believes he is on a quest for the Garden of Eden. (Remember, this is 1857-1858!) Their guide is a half-Aboriginal Tasmanian with a dark past and a taste for revenge, and the British expedition members have quite some disdain for him.

One of the members of the expedition is a spoiled, cynical young naturalist named Timothy who's only along on the trip because his parents thought it would be a great way to get rid of him and toughen him up (parent issues, anyone?) Gradually, though, the author inserts hints that he has potential to be a voice of reason and humanity. But the reader still isn't really sure. He's still the spoiled rich kid to us.

Anyway, at one point, the expedition is lost on the mountain, right near a cliff face, and they're losing hope. One of the British porters grows fed up with their Aboriginal guide and lifts his gun to shoot him, but in a moment of altruism (the first one we've ever really seen from this character), Timothy tackles the porter and the gun misses. They wrestle, and grow dangerously close to the edge...

...and, yes, Timothy falls off the cliff. Unlike Boone, a particularly strange situation arises that enables him to recover from the injuries he sustains. But seriously, how random is it when somewhat-redeemed rich kids start falling off cliffs during a search for someone else's spiritual answers (be it in the Garden of Eden or a Beechcraft)?

So, you know, whenever I envision that scene in my head, I see Ian Somerhalder...

poor rich kids. I haven't read English Passengers but that is an odd coincidence. I wonder about the Aboriginal guide. He's a native of the island? Kind of like Rousseau. She's not a native of course but she has been on the Island longer than all of our other Losties, and she is often leading them here and there.

I'd like to recommend The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon. It's about a woman who discovers what she thinks is a conspiracy, but she can't prove if the Tristero foundation behind the conspiracy exists. When she hears about the conspiracy, she finds a trumpet symbol everywhere--but was it planted by the conspiracy? Was it always there and she just didn't see it? There's a lot more to it. Just thought I'd toss this in. (Actually, anything by Thomas Pynchon would have these themes, but this is the only book I finished 'cos it's the shortest!:redface: )

Hey guys~

Just thought you might want to know that Gregg Nations indicated a couple of books that may (or may not) have influenced the show. Contact (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=49087) and Solaris (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=49090).

Happy reading

Hey guys~

Just thought you might want to know that Gregg Nations indicated a couple of books that may (or may not) have influenced the show. Contact (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=49087) and Solaris (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=49090).

Happy reading

He seemed to be more concrete about Solaris. I have Contact but have never read it; maybe I will now. I, um, had never heard of Solaris. (runs and hides)

I totally want to go on my "Tasmanian literature" rant for Gregg and tell him to read all my Oceanic (literally) faves, but I don't want to seem like the overeager nerd. You know, if I go all "OMG GOULD'S BOOK OF FISH!!!!" on him he'd probably find a mod to ban me.

IMHO, one of the great things about Lost is that it gets people to read books they may otherwise have never even heard of :) I'd agree with the Vonnegut/Pynchon stuff, personally. Really well written, funny, 'sci-fi'/conspiracy stuff.

I've read Contact. It was REALLY good -- much better than the movie! I've seen the movie Solaris but haven't read the book.

read rené barjavel's le grand secret (the immortals). a scientist discovers a virus which gives immunity to and heals every disease. anyone who gets it, becomes immortal. these people are transferred to a remote island (307) to hide the truth from the rest of the world

wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Barjavel)

OK, so I suppose that Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens should be added to reading list after last night's season finale, right?

An interesting note: I read somewhere that this is the book that author John Irving has said he will not read until he is on his deathbed - exactly like Desmond, he is saving it until his final days.

I don't think I will be able to wait until my dying days to read it.

Hi there!
I'd like to join the group!

There's a new book to add to the list as of last night- "Our Mutual Friend" by Charles Dickens!

Also-I've been reading the Stand for the first time and love it so far!!

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/883 you can read the book online it is free.
http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/CD-OMF.html

Our Mutual Friend wasl Charles Dickens last completed novel and is, arguably, his darkest and most complex. The basic plot is vintage Dickens: an inheritance up for grabs, a murder, a rocky romance or two, plenty of skullduggery, and a host of unforgettable secondary characters. But in this final outing the author's heroes are more flawed, his villains more sympathetic, and the story as a whole more harrowing and less sentimental.

There is a good synopsis at Amazon

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1085&pos=431 Lost media screen cap

I'm slowly reading Richard Flanagan's book (recommended previously in this thread) Gould's Book of Fish (on about my 3rd fish of 12), and happened on this Lost-coincidental statement by the main charcter, Gould, on p.134 ... as Capois Death said, if sh*t ever becomes valuable, the poor will be born without arseholes. That was our fate, & I didn't pretend I could alter it, I only wished to survive as best I could, & what else was I to do? I had no desire to become a sawyer or sheperd or whaling deckhand. I didn't have the hands or back for it, far less the necessary practical skills.

I'd like to recommend The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon. It's about a woman who discovers what she thinks is a conspiracy, but she can't prove if the Tristero foundation behind the conspiracy exists. When she hears about the conspiracy, she finds a trumpet symbol everywhere--but was it planted by the conspiracy? Was it always there and she just didn't see it? There's a lot more to it. Just thought I'd toss this in. (Actually, anything by Thomas Pynchon would have these themes, but this is the only book I finished 'cos it's the shortest!:redface: )

Great recommendation...(I'm not a BOOKWORM, but I figured I'd add here, anyhow)...I would also highly suggest Gravity's Rainbow by Pynchon. Aside from being a brilliant and fun read, it is likewise full of the paranoia and paranormal. Also features the main character going off to the Mittelwerkes (for those doing the Experience that will be familiar), which is where the Germans made the V2 rockets. Great deal about loss of identity and trying to find the way home, plus loads on Pavlovian conditioning and psychology vs. mathematical precision, unethical experiments, etc. One of the driving factors of the main character (several of them, actually) is also to locate a rocket known as the Black Rocket...hmmm.

Just thought I'd share.

I've gotten so busy, it's crazy... I haven't had time to do much of anything except the summer class I've been taking. However, I finally finished book 4 of the Dark Tower series, Wizard & Glass. This book tells several stories at once it seems, but the Wizard of Oz parallel at the end was quite interesting.

I can tell I'm going to have to read the whole series over again to really get everything. It's so good, but there's just so much. Lots of LOST parallels, but next time around I'll have to actually take notes.

For the person that really likes historical fiction a fantastic series (6), The Lymond Chronicles. It is my #1 set of books, all time. This series would have kept Sawyer interested for awhile. You want to see the best and the worst in people, read this set of books.

You know how the writer's love to have us hate a character when we first meet them? Then they start to show us how they got to be the way they are? I think they took lessons from Dorothy Dunnett.

Thought I'd pop in and drop off some books:

Lost Horizon (it is about the Shangrila)

Erewhon

Looking Backwards (Bellamy)

Walden II (Skinner)

Rite of Passage (Alexei Panshin)

Gullivers Travels


All of these seem to have bits woven into Lost.

I am currently reading "Lancelot" by Walker Percy, which Sawyer was seen reading at one point in season two. It's a really great book (I like Percy a lot...The Moviegoer was great) but I'm not seeing the relation to Lost in the book. Maybe I'm just being dim about it? Not sure.

Has anyone else read it? What ties to the show did you find?

Hello Bookworms! Although they have not been mentioned on the show, I'd like to recommend Douglas Addams' Dirk Gentley books. These books are totally strange (as is most of Addams' writing!) and you have be a little odd to enjoy his style of humor (as I do!). What remided me of Lost, was the protagonist's belief in the "inter-connected-ness" of everything in the universe. In his theory there are no coincidences, and all events that occur in the stories strengthen his beliefs. I think the Losties would be the crowning proof to Dirk that his theory is dead on!;)
dragonwife

Hi, I'd like to join. I wish I had discovered this thread earlier. I've read five works listed in the original post. They are:

- Watership Down, Richard Adams
- Hear of Darkness, Joseph Conrad
- Shakespeare, Othello (Dominick Monaghan comapares his character to Iago in E-online interview)
- The Tempest, Shakespeare (shipwreck on island, discussed in a tv guide article)
- Taming of the Shrew, Shakespeare (parallels between Kate and Sawyer)

BTW,
- (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=606911&postcount=116) Rime of the Ancient Mariner, ?
is written by Samuel Taylor coleridge.

Alright, the English teacher in me has to protest comparing Kate and Sawyer to Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew. The characters in the play are so much more dynamic, and round than any character on Lost. I have to say that that would be a pretty weak comparison. Although I could see the comparison of two strong characters who must learn to submit and relate to one another -- but that would mean that Kate would have to chose and committ to Sawyer -- which is not the case as of yet.

Sorry.
Rant over.
(Rant not directed at poster, but rather at the concept)

I'd have to agree with you there, Notlost. In addition, Kate and Sawyer are not married. Taming of the Shrew is about a marriage relationship.

Has everybody forgotten about Desmond? He says he has read every "sweet word" ever written by the great Dickens, and there is a whole storyline on that tattered copy of Our mutual friend...
Yes, books are important.

I've read and taught quite a bit of Dickens -- and I'm not sure that I would call every word "sweet". That is one long-winded author! I love Great Expectations but cut to the chase buddy! Dickens often made statements in his works about the social situations of his day. He didn't agree with status and class. I'm sure there's significance that Desmond mentions him -- aren't they all participating (willingly and unwillingly) in a social experiment?