She doesn't have to be dead, right? RIGHT?? I don't think I could deal with it if she was!!

From how amazing and kickass she was all episode, to her heartbreaking 'death' scene, Juliet is the best female character on the show. They can't kill her, right? Please?

I am so sad, so terribly sad. Why did she have to die like that? It was devastating.

If the show resets, then I guess there is a chance we'll see her alive again. And maybe we'll see her in FBs no matter what. But this is so sad.

It was beautiful what she did at the end, causing it to blow up. An amazing ending. Amazing that her character got to end the season that way. But, it's terribly sad.

Since she detonated the bomb, no one died, I think. Eko, Charlie, Nikki, Paulo, Claire, Shannon, Ana, Libby, etc everyone is alive because the plane never crashed, right?????????

I think she will be alive, just as the Jack kate and sawyer will be. That pocket causes time travel - i bet they jump to another time ..

I think they jump further into the past.

Juliet was very sad...I was tearing up. Definitely close in my mind to the death of Charlie...but not just quite there.

But in all honestly, a lot of my emotions were Lost whenever we saw that she actually didn't die from the fall. So technically she 'died' with everyone else. But it was still extremely upsetting.

She doesn't have to be dead, right? RIGHT?? I don't think I could deal with it if she was!!

From how amazing and kickass she was all episode, to her heartbreaking 'death' scene, Juliet is the best female character on the show. They can't kill her, right? Please?

She better not be DEAD DEAD!

Juliet is the best female character LOST ever had.

I hope time reset itself.

It was sad. That was a good, tough scene to watch. I didn't like seeing her alive at the bottom of the shaft, I don't know if she'd survive that, but I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for that. The whole episode was great. imo, I think the finale gave us a clear indication where the quadrangle lies.

I think the nickname was a key indicator of feelings, and the fact that Kate changed her position based on Jack's insistance. Just my two cents.

Time can do whatever it wants as long as Juliet is still alive!

Holy crap.

Sawyer/Juliet's last scene there was so freaking heartbreaking. There isn't even words to describe that moment By far - the most emotional I've ever been watching Lost. Ever.
But then when we see Jules alive at the bottom, I was practically BESIDE her yelling at that bomb to go off.

And it did.

Soooooooooooo.... I have NO IDEA what to think now. But the bomb did go off with Sawyer, Jack, Kate, et al still right there .... that seems to suggest they are either all dead..... or now all alive??

And since, there is another season I'm guessing they aren't all dead.

I'm hopeful that JULIET LIVES!

She doesn't have to be dead, right? RIGHT?? I don't think I could deal with it if she was!!

From how amazing and kickass she was all episode, to her heartbreaking 'death' scene, Juliet is the best female character on the show. They can't kill her, right? Please?
A Hydorgen Bomb was detonated. They are all dead. Or they are all alive. Either way, at this point they all share the same fate.

Oh, what a scene. When Sawyer was hanging on to Juliet's arm, it seemed to go on so long, and their expressions were so heartbreaking. So well done, but I 'm so upset & sad. I hate Darlton. :mad:

Holy crap.

Sawyer/Juliet's last scene there was so freaking heartbreaking. There isn't even words to describe that moment By far - the most emotional I've ever been watching Lost. Ever.

Me too, Eowyn. I was bawling - by far the saddest scene of Lost for me so far, even more so than Charlie. I don't actually even know what Sawyer or Juliet were really saying since I was crying so hard. :crybaby:

I hope so badly that she is alive. And if she isn't :crybaby: I hope Darlton at least tells us that so we don't spend 8 months hoping she's still alive only to have her be dead. That would be awful.

I don't think she will be dead, but that fall should have killed her. Big fall plus a lot of sharp metal all around.

It was so freaking SAD! OMG I was yelling at the TV that she would reset time and would not be dead. Absolutely the saddest scene EVER on LOST. Why do almost all my favorite characters die? Faraday, Sayid, Juliet, Libby, Boone, etc.

I will truly miss her. She was just a cool, Kick-butt lady. I've never seen anyone have such power over James. Just her yelling his name made him stop beating Jack. He is going to be so lost without her and VERY angry.

I do hope she will appear someway in the future/past but I don't think she will. I think we will see Sawyer join her next Season.

Given the nature of the events that transpired there is no way of knowing if Juliet is dead or alive.There is no telling who is alive or dead.

Given the nature of the events that transpired there is no way of knowing if Juliet is dead or alive.There is no telling who is alive or dead.

True. Maybe it's Sayid. As much as I like him, I am kind of wishing death on him if it means Juliet can live. Or maybe it's Locke, since is for sure dead now.

As long as I can keep hoping Juliet is still alive!

Wow Juliet totally kicked butt this episode, and I'm hoping she'll be alive. She went out like Charlie though saving everyone once again lol. I'll just hope she'll be alive for season 6, and I hope for EM's sake V does amazing things. I'll miss Juliet though, she was like totally the coolest character.

So sad...Juliet.
LOTR. Don't you dare let go...

I liked Charlie more and his death scene was cool, but the expressions of Sawyer and Juliet was AWESOME! Great acting there!!! Beautiful scene!!! Too bad I never trusted her....and therefore will never miss her. But beautiful acting and fantastic death scene!

Her being alive at the bottom....really unrealistic.

I was really sad as well. I loved Juliette. Really enjoyed seeing her and Sawyer happy together back in Dharmaville before everything went awry.
If anyone had to go, I wish it would have been Kate.
But alas, it's always the best people who sacrifice themselves for the greater good, right?

I hope that by her blowing the nuke, she was able to affect a change in the timeline. That her death was not in vain.

They kill Juliet(apparently) but keep Kate alive. Now that is tragic.

Her being alive at the bottom....really unrealistic.

Um... yeah, you're right. Time traveling, body-snatching, never aging, etc... are all way more realistic.:rolleyes:

Given the nature of the events that transpired there is no way of knowing if Juliet is dead or alive.There is no telling who is alive or dead.

My sentiments exactly. It's much like the bright light as Locke fell down the well, or Des turning the failsafe key. We've no idea what anyone's fate is on the other side of that flash including Juliet. I have high hopes that we will see her alive next season.

It was a very, very powerful scene. My husband and I were BOTH sobbing.

It's weird to feel sad about Juliet and Sayid (my favorite character) being gone--but then realizing they're ALL dead, so the distinction is really academic and I should be grieving for Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin and Miles as well. The only people we know for sure survived are Chang (who got away thanks to Miles) and the women/children/nonessential personnel in the sub.

Um... yeah, you're right. Time traveling, body-snatching, never aging, etc... are all way more realistic.:rolleyes:
Ya got a point there. I dunno they seriously can't kill Juliet off without one mention of her sister? LOL WHAT IS THAT? Sawyer gives Kate one look and Juliet bolts on him for obvious reasons, but he lets her. Then is like ahh don't leave me? The more I think about this episode the more I don't like it, which is kinda funny. I feel like they just totally sacrificed one of the best characters on the show for no good reason at all. And I absolutely hate the 2007 storyline so I guess that leaves me Lost hm

I liked Charlie more and his death scene was cool, but the expressions of Sawyer and Juliet was AWESOME! Great acting there!!! Beautiful scene!!! Too bad I never trusted her....and therefore will never miss her. But beautiful acting and fantastic death scene!

Her being alive at the bottom....really unrealistic.

People have survived falling out of Airplanes when the chutes didn't open, so her "surviving" a 80 meter fall (I believe Rad said) isn't that unrealistic. Plus she didn't exactly look like she had long to live from the massive injuries anyway.

My sentiments exactly. It's much like the bright light as Locke fell down the well, or Des turning the failsafe key. We've no idea what anyone's fate is on the other side of that flash including Juliet. I have high hopes that we will see her alive next season.

Me too! Maybe I'm just being naive, but come on, it's Lost! Stranger things have happened. Jin certainly seemed dead and blown up at the end of last season, but he came back. Juliet could do the same! :)

I want to believe so badly that she could be okay!

Although killing her was so unfair, contrived (snaked by a chain?) and bad for the show, Juliet was the absolute true hero of the night. She effused dignity and love.

Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?

Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?

This is my new favorite theory! Desmond and Locke both survived that mysterious flash in the Swan. Juliet could too! Thinking about it, there were a lot of similarities to Desmond turning the failsafe key at the end of S2.

That scene was tragic. :bawling: I still tear up thinking about it. Brilliant acting on both sides. It's not easy to pull off the man-cry, but Holloway sure did it, and EM, she always rocks. I really hope they're able to bring her back next season. She just might have become my favorite character tonight.


I don't think she will be dead, but that fall should have killed her. Big fall plus a lot of sharp metal all around.
Remember, the Island won't let you die till it's done with you. The bomb didn't go off, so it dragged poor Juliet down to MAKE it go off. At least that's my theory. :71:


I will truly miss her. She was just a cool, Kick-butt lady. I've never seen anyone have such power over James. Just her yelling his name made him stop beating Jack. He is going to be so lost without her and VERY angry.

I do hope she will appear someway in the future/past but I don't think she will. I think we will see Sawyer join her next Season.They just did the "I'm broken up about the death of my girlfriend" bit with him the beginning of this season, so I hope they don't do it again (though I'd be pissed if he DIDN'T grieve - he sure looked broken when they were pulling him away :frown:) If things work the way Faraday says they will, Sawyer will land in LA and not even remember it. :23:


Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?
:24:

This was the first time I cried during a death a Lost. Even with Charlie, I only cried watching it the second time around, and I loved him.

It was those awful looks on Sawyer's and Juliet's faces that killed me. It reminded me of Sun watching Jin die (or appear to). I could hardly stand to watch it.

But I'm very glad she fell, because I was really worried that the lower half of her body was about to be pulled off, and that would have traumatized me.

RIP Juliet.

Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?

This is my new favorite theory! Desmond and Locke both survived that mysterious flash in the Swan. Juliet could too! Thinking about it, there were a lot of similarities to Desmond turning the failsafe key at the end of S2.

That's exactly what I was coming over to say. Did Juliet basically turned the first fail safe key?

She is not dead, same thing as with Desmond.

Given the nature of the events that transpired there is no way of knowing if Juliet is dead or alive.There is no telling who is alive or dead.


I agree, I thought it was nearly identical to Desmond blowing up the hatch/flash of white thing back in season 2...


So we're assuming the bomb "killed" her? If that's so, why isn't anybody wondering if Kate, Sawyer and Jack died? A freakin' plutonium bomb went off!! And they are all relatively nearby... a plutonium blast would have wiped out everything for miles around.

I think Jack's plan worked, and Juliet flashforwarded, along with everybody else. That's what the soundless flash of white was about.

Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?
Damn but I'd like to see the ratings for that episode.

Juliet is the major death. She is not coming back alive except maybe in flashbacks. She was not touched by Jacob. She has no part to play in the run in. I am pleased they gave her character a decent ending. Just being dragged into the hole by chains would have been harsh. Atleast she got to detonate the bomb and be useful for something.

It is interesting how they paralleled Sawyer losing his parents to the loss of Juliet. Interesting that as his mother died, she too was saying ILU. With what had gone in the previous minutes with Juliets fb and all, I am glad she realised that James would stay with her out of loyalty if she let him, not out of any everlasting love. I'm amazed she needed "the look" to push her over the edge.

I loved Juliet this episode. She was kick *** and she was honest. None of that dharma fantasy for her anymore. I did think all the shouts of ILU at the end were too much especially as James was not saying the same but kept repeating their usual type of mantra of "I got you" "Don't let go" "Don't leave me" all great and hall marks of their relationship.

Juliet set her own death in motion because she despaired of her future ahead which in her view she was certain would not contain James, the man she had so grown to love.

Its sad but the Island is done with Juliet. Now we get to the real meat of the show :)

I have to say, I loved the introductory clip to the show, preparing us for season 6 and this finale. Damon and Carlton, thank you. Thank you very much :)

She got hired on a new TV show for this fall. She won't be back. (much like Libby did)

I teared-up , poor Sawyer! Im not sure she will be alive but hope she is.

C'mon guys. She's dead. They aren't going to cheapen an emotional scene like the one of Juliet hanging down the shaft by resetting it next season. I think by detonating the bomb she flashed everyone back into 2007, but it won't help her any because she would have died from her injuries anyway.

It's an incredible shame that Juliet got killed off as triangle fodder. Even her childhood flashback only served to tell us that Sawyer/Kate were meant to be and Juliet/Sawyer were not supposed to be together. Yuck.

I cried. I cried during the Ben and Jacob scene too. I am such a sap.

Remember, the Island won't let you die till it's done with you. The bomb didn't go off, so it dragged poor Juliet down to MAKE it go off. At least that's my theory. :71:


thank you, TRoss! this i agree with. she wasn't dead because the island wanted her to detonate that bomb. and i think that all that were alive will be able to flash to wherever they are going i don't think she's gone for good.

EM and josh were phenomenal. i never ever thought i'd cry over juliet dying as much as i wanted her dead in season 3, but she was great.

knj, i think that when juliet told him it's over, that he was so stunned and confused that he didn't know what to say. he grabbed a hold of her and tried to control the conversation, and she wouldn't let him. she is a very confident, strong woman and what she was saying was it. he asked her her opinion on going to help jack and she said, "live together die alone". HE asked her. it wasn't over for him and he was letting her see this. then in the end, they both looked at each other before jack dropped the bomb and smiled their i love yous. i think the don't you let go was very cool and i look forward to them reuniting someday.

Atleast she got to detonate the bomb and be useful for something.


i think she's quite useful.

I thought it was a great scene. Did anyone else get the feeling that it was similar to when Smokie pulled the french guy down under the temple? The chain -- the chain noises and it wrapping around her body like that and Sawyer holding on to her arm. It was a little creepy how similar the two scenes were.

Word, max! Sawyer did indeed ask her what she thought they should do when Kate was fretting over Jack. Didn't seem over to me, not even at the bitter end.

And the man was just destroyed after, did you see him laying there totally uncaring of his fate? Kate and Jack had to wrest him away, for pete's sake. How can that be anything less than love? Re: duty, I haven't seen people willing to die for duty, after the person they feel dutybound to is likely dead. Sawyer seemed like he couldn't care less what happened to him just then.

And Kate was wonderful, she tried her hardest to save Juliet.

I don't know whether she'll make it next season. I really hope so.

Evanesco, I have responded to you on another thread where you expressed similar sentiments. That hole was there for Sawyer to jump into if anyone is insinuating that he wanted to die. He did not. He was devastated. As WWK had spoiled early on, a chain of decisions by several characters which lead to the death of a major character. No one forced Sawyer to look at Kate as Rose and bernard waxed lyrical. He could have looked at Juliet. She aws right there infront of him and SHE looked at HIM. He looked at Kate. Which got Juliet to make her decision to join Jack, which led to her death.

He could not move after watching her slip away. Kate saw the crane falling and for the 2nd time, got Jack to help her save Sawyer from death. Kate the indestructible. She ran to help Jack. Ran to help Juliet. Ran to help Sawyer. The Island just loves her. Nothing ever seems to try to kill her.

I have never ever said Sawyer does not love Juliet. I have simply said, its not the kind of love some are making it out to be. I think I have been proved accurate in my assesments by Juliets dialogue but more importantly by the clip where the writers of the show tell us the show THEY are writing and describe their own characters to us.

Demise? What demise? If she's dead then the rest of them are too from the blast of the hydrogen bomb that went off. I won't believe she's dead until we see it on the show. I'm guessing that the incident will catapult them all back to present time.

Locke was the death. If Juliet is dead EVERYONE is dead. I think they foiled us.

I agree, I thought it was nearly identical to Desmond blowing up the hatch/flash of white thing back in season 2...


So we're assuming the bomb "killed" her? If that's so, why isn't anybody wondering if Kate, Sawyer and Jack died? A freakin' plutonium bomb went off!! And they are all relatively nearby... a plutonium blast would have wiped out everything for miles around.

I think Jack's plan worked, and Juliet flashforwarded, along with everybody else. That's what the soundless flash of white was about.

Demise? What demise? If she's dead then the rest of them are too from the blast of the hydrogen bomb that went off. I won't believe she's dead until we see it on the show. I'm guessing that the incident will catapult them all back to present time.

Locke was the death. If Juliet is dead EVERYONE is dead. I think they foiled us.

Well, Desmond, Locke, Charlie and Eko all survived when Desmond turned the failsafe key at the Swan and we all saw what that did to the Swan, and blew the hatch lid all the way to the beach. I think a precedent was set from that scene that people can survive such an explosion/implosion. I think Juliet is dead, but I wouldn't be surprised if she is alive, as they pulled this on us last year with Jin.

I do really like Juliet, and thought this scene was incredibly sad, but I still think Charlie's was more emotional. Charlie went to his death, knowing exactly what was going to happen. Charlie's death was a sacrifice. While I'm not downplaying Juliet's actions, she didn't jump down the shaft to set the bomb off, she only set it off once she was already down there. It certainly was heroic and also a sacrifice, but I just find Charlie's more gutwrenching, since he really didn't have to die. He chose to die because he thought by doing so he was making Desmond's vision come true and Claire and Aaron would be rescued.

Locke was the death. If Juliet is dead EVERYONE is dead. I think they foiled us.

This is possible, they definitely left themselves some wiggle room, but I think that Juliet's proximity to the bomb would ensure her death, while maybe the others at the surface are just blown back to present time. :shrug:

I hope Juliet survives, because I'd love for nothing more than to see her reunited with her sister. But if they do decide that she's dead, then that was a helluva way to send her out. Juliet has been mostly pathetic and useless this season, and I was so happy to see her regain a bit of the kick-:censored: Juliet we know & love last night.

The fact that they had her be "the Other Woman" yet again was fairly lame and redundant, but given that her name is Juliet, I reckon it's just her lot in life to be unlucky in love.

I think Juliet is alive and well. I think she may have changed the events that just happened and then she never would have been dragged down by the chains. Not yet anyway!! If there is a time loop it'll all happen all over again. Not sure what the bomb did or didn't do.

It's not just Juliet's death which bothers me, but the death of Juliet and Sawyer's relationship (which came in the finale before Juliet died.) The one thing in his life which was good and decent - wiped out. Maybe the same for her, too (after having had a bad marriage, and then being stuck "in hell" with Ben.)

Meanwhile, Kate gets a two-foot thick lead and concrete character shield. Grrr. :mad:

Well, Desmond, Locke, Charlie and Eko all survived when Desmond turned the failsafe key at the Swan and we all saw what that did to the Swan, and blew the hatch lid all the way to the beach. I think a precedent was set from that scene that people can survive such an explosion/implosion. I think Juliet is dead, but I wouldn't be surprised if she is alive, as they pulled this on us last year with Jin.


Exactly. It could go either way. Desmond survived the Swan exploding once, Juliet could do the same. I don't think she will be a regular next season, obviously because of V, but they could certainly bring her back for a few episodes if they wanted to be nice to us and not have her be dead! :)

It's not just Juliet's death which bothers me, but the death of Juliet and Sawyer's relationship (which came in the finale before Juliet died.) The one thing in his life which was good and decent - wiped out. Maybe the same for her, too (after having had a bad marriage, and then being stuck "in hell" with Ben.)

Meanwhile, Kate gets a two-foot thick lead and concrete character shield. Grrr. :mad:

Jacob wants it so. She was touched. Juliet wasn't. This is life. Gotta say loved kick *** Kate and kick *** Juliet working in tandem and its a pity we could not have had some more of that over the years or next season, before smokey in chain form took Juliet away.

I didn't see any demise. Looked more like a time skip flash. Her detonating the bomb is too unlikely. I don't know how many nukes you're going to set off hitting the side with a rock at 2 miles per hour.

I'd be more shocked if the writers made it explode than I was about Locke not being Locke.

I didn't see any demise. Looked more like a time skip flash. Her detonating the bomb is too unlikely. I don't know how many nukes you're going to set off hitting the side with a rock at 2 miles per hour.

I'd be more shocked if the writers made it explode than I was about Locke not being Locke.

This may be out there but since we don't really know what would happen if a nuke did go off at the same time the event was happening who's to say that Desmond didn't detonate a nuclear bomb when he turned the failsafe key. Maybe a nuke is the only way to shut it down.Just a thought.

In reply to the topic. I was bawling like a baby. Personally I think that Juliet got it wrong though...I think the two people who were not meant to be together were Sawyer and Kate. The flashback that Juliet had were of her parents who did not work out.It was obvious that Juliet and Sawyer worked. In my opinion Juliet just gave up on the relationship because she thought nothing ever good would last in her life...she did the same thing when she didn't fight for Jack but conceded him to Kate.

As for Sawyer looking at Kate...sometimes guys want the one they can't have...it doesn't mean she's the right one. I don't think anyone could say he didn't love Juliet after his reaction to her falling down the shaft. It was the most emotion he's ever shown. To be honest if they come back and Juliet is the only one who is dead, I think that Sawyer may wind up hating Kate because he knows that she's the only reason that Juliet agreed to side with Jack which would have led to her death.

From an article on E Online:

"...Juliet made like her namesake from the play and cheerfully, melodramatically died of a dysfunctional relationship. And in the end, that's not cool…I truly thought our Juliet had more gumption."

That's basically the feeling I have. If Juliet is actually dead - that was beyond not cool. An epic and heart-wrenching 'death' scene, yes. But a fitting end for the character and story of Juliet? No. Hopefully this 'death' scene was kind of an nod to Shakespeare's Juliet.. but isn't the end of Lost's Juliet.

But I still maintain that if she died from exploding the bomb - then Jack, Sawyer, and Kate are all dead, too.

If on the other hand it was a time-flash like thing, then maybe they were all whisked away. Juliet would be seriously wounded (as Sayid is) but her surviving wouldn't be the strangest thing to happen on this show.

I will be SO mad if she lives.

She fell. Down. A. Well.
FAST!

Keeping her alive would ruin the Sawyer/Juliet scene that was so great.

I'm not going to comment on the quadrangle - I'm sure they are/will be plenty of threads for that, but I haven't been anywhere but this thread yet.

I was screaming as Juliet got dragged by the ropes, and crying hysterically as she and Sawyer had their final scene together. Juliet has been one of my favorites since her beginning on the show, and this was absolutely gut-wrenching. I knew she would let go of her hand, and it was just miserable.

As for the spoiler that people are referring to - many of us don't read them, so it doesn't make much sense. Are you implying there was to be only ONE death on this episode? Because if so, there is still a lot of clarification to be made. And yeah, I read Kristin's from E!'s synopsis. But a lot can change in the next few months.

It was a great scene. She didnt die, she ensured she will live by setting off the bomb.

But I'm very glad she fell, because I was really worried that the lower half of her body was about to be pulled off, and that would have traumatized me.

RIP Juliet.rip Juliet (half her body pulled off...rip Juliet..:biggrin:

I know I kinda cried too
Which would be the first time i'd do it in the whole show.
Amaazing finale, just, amazing.

When she was hanging there, i was like "NOO, HOLD ON, HOLD ON PLEASE, YOU CAN" :s
My mom thought I was crazy or something...


And the fact that she got to blow the bomb, amazing. I also think she didn't die of the fall because she HAD to do that, which makes me think, so the explosion was part of the destiny in that case???
Perhaps, in order to change the future she shouldn't have to detonate it... :\

Who knows..


The only thing I didn't understand, is, Why is it that the bomb didn't explode when Jack threw it???

Juliet's fall was right up there with Charlie's drowning for me. Amazing, emotional scene. I hope that the fact she was still alive when the potential reset happens means there is a possibility she'll come back with all the rest of the characters.

I think Juliet will be back next season, but not as a regular character. If Juilet died, then Sayid is dead as well, and so is everyone else if the bomb went off. I tend to think they will go back to 2004 but with the progress they have made as characters. That's what Jacob meant when he said everything else is progress. I dunno I could be totally wrong, but comon Darlton, give us more Juliet.
Also, I think it was the worst death ever on Lost, way worse than charlie IMO.

For what it's worth, earlier today, the EOnline recap (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b123839_lost_redux_what_just_happened.html) had a paragraph confirming that Juliet was the major death that had been been hinted at the past few weeks. However, that paragraph is completely gone now, with no explanation. That gives me a shred of hope that she could be back next season in a few episodes at least! And I love Juliet too much to give up all hope until Darlton tell me to! :)

Elizabeth Mitchell is a main character in a new tv show. She won't have time to do both shows I don't think. IMO, she's dead.

I don't get the everybody might be dead thing.
This was a quite small size fission (not fusion) bomb (small tactical nuke).
exploded deep in a shaft.



Unless the rest of the gang was within a hundred feet from the shaft,
They're certainly alive, though they probably concussed and
and burned from the blast wave and will have sustained a radiation dose
(though with the size of that bomb and the direction of the blast, certainly
non lethaL).

Juliet can only wish on a time flash prior to the blast for survival, the others
could time flash after the blast and still survive.

Must confess:

Have hated Juliet from day one!

(Love E. Mitchell, tho.)

Must admit:

1. Much impressed with redemptive death --

2. Very happy Sawyer got to "apologize" for ogling Kate in front of Juliet before she bit it.

(Common mistake men make -- just happy Juliet didn't die outta revenge, as in:

"Oh yeah! Go ahead and look at her, pretty boy! Then watch me plummet to my doom! Jerky!")

3. Think Juliet's determination to complete the job MOST IMPORTANT -- and very cool.

4. Still not 100% sorry she's gone (have hated her for years). However, very happy to see her pick a side -- the RIGHT side -- in the end.

Go girl!

Elizabeth Mitchell is a main character in a new tv show. She won't have time to do both shows I don't think. IMO, she's dead.

When she was on Kimmel she said she was doing both shows (Lost and V) simultaneously. Given Lost's delayed shooting schedule (compared to other shows that start seasons in September) I think it may be conceivable that she could do both.

She is my favorite so I don't want her to be dead, but if she survives I hope we have more than just "oh just kidding, i'm not dead yet!", because her scenes last night were so powerful.

Her being alive at the bottom....really unrealistic.
You're not taking into consideration the magnetic field. Water is diamagnetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetic), meaning it is repelled by magnetic fields, and the human body is mostly water, meaning that a strong enough magnetic field could levitate a human body... or slow its descent.

But yeah. Gut wrenching scene because of the acting by both actors. Really some of the most amazing acting we've seen, IMO.

If she's dead, that means Sayid's probably dead too. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually did die -- those chains must have mangled the lower half of her body. But I think the flash relocated everyone to another time and/or place and reset everything.

But yeah. Gut wrenching scene because of the acting by both actors. Really some of the most amazing acting we've seen, IMO.

No joke. I thought she might die, so I was expecting it; what I wasn't expecting was James totally breaking down and weeping. That made me cry.

2. Very happy Sawyer got to "apologize" for ogling Kate in front of Juliet before she bit it.

(Common mistake men make -- just happy Juliet didn't die outta revenge, as in:

"Oh yeah! Go ahead and look at her, pretty boy! Then watch me plummet to my doom! Jerky!")
I think it was beyond ogling. I think it was that Rose/Bernard said something about romantic about spending the rest of your life with your soul-mate. It made her smile and look at Sawyer. But she saw that it had made him look at Kate. It's not exactly something you can apologize for.

I think it was beyond ogling. I think it was that Rose/Bernard said something about romantic about spending the rest of your life with your soul-mate. It made her smile and look at Sawyer. But she saw that it had made him look at Kate. It's not exactly something you can apologize for.

I think he did when Jack dropped the bomb. Sawyer only looked at Juliet and she smiled when she got that.

Such a sad scene. Nothing will ever beat Charlies death for me - I still cry my eyes out every time I watch it, and even just thinking about Charlie, which makes people think I'm nuts - but it was so sad.
I picked Juliet as one of the deaths of this season (depending on if she's actually dead, but I'm not going to get into the whole 'if she died in the blast everyone died in the blast but she must be dead cos she's on a new TV show thing) but I didn't expect it to be so sad.
On one hand, I was like 'hey cool, I was right' and then, on the other hand, I was crying and thinking "No! Poor Sawyer!"
Wonderful acting.

this is courtesy of my buddy, GEORGEIII. don't read if you don't want to be spoiled!!!!!



On another note, since this is a spoiler thread I'll post this:

Kristen posted this today: "Sources confirm that Elizabeth Mitchell will appear in season 6"

Ausiello posted the identical thing a couple of months ago

this is courtesy of my buddy, GEORGEIII. don't read if you don't want to be spoiled!!!!!




Interesting but remember

Charlie appeared in S4 so that doesn't really tell us much.

(my spoiler only refers to a past episode, but maxaholic's spoiler could be inferred from it, so I tagged it)
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Her being alive at the bottom....really unrealistic.
Yes, but more realistic than 50+ people plummeting from a disintegrating airliner and surviving unharmed.
rip Juliet (half her body pulled off...rip Juliet..:biggrin:
That's cold.

And hilarious!

I think he did when Jack dropped the bomb. Sawyer only looked at Juliet and she smiled when she got that.

Apology does not mean denial. I thought it was interesting that when Juliet said "I saw you look at her" Sawyer did not even question it or ask what look. He looked at Kate on the sub and on the raft, but he knew it was none of those. He knew the look he let slip when Rose and bernard were being all soul-matey. He knew what Juliet was talking about and did not bother to deny or even reassure her with ILU or it's you I want to be with forever.

He said, "I do not care who I looked at. I am with you". There is a difference b/w "I am with you" and "I want to be with you". Subtle but an important difference and poor Juliet understood that and I think she died heartbroken. Accepting but heartbroken even taking into account the smile at the end. She should not have to get a "pity" look. Sawyer should look at her without her having to throw a tantrum and agree to blow up the Island to get a look. LOL. I mean, come on!

Anyway, that significant look was enough for Juliet to give her break up speech which was a long time coming IMO and from then on she was Blondie, no longer Juliet, and he was no longer La Fleur.

What in retrospect I have come to be disappointed by is the fact that such a strong female like Juliet was introduced as in season 3, got to turn into someone so weak this season, and then die because she knew she would eventually lose the man she loved? So, because of that she was ready to blow up the spot? Now, look what happened! It's the worst reason. Just as bad as Jacks. The only person who had a decent reason was Kate. For Claire and Aaron but even she was stupid to agree to this plan.

For what it's worth, earlier today, the EOnline recap (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b123839_lost_redux_what_just_happened.html) had a paragraph confirming that Juliet was the major death that had been been hinted at the past few weeks. However, that paragraph is completely gone now, with no explanation. That gives me a shred of hope that she could be back next season in a few episodes at least! And I love Juliet too much to give up all hope until Darlton tell me to! :)

Well that's interesting.


...
She is my favorite so I don't want her to be dead, but if she survives I hope we have more than just "oh just kidding, i'm not dead yet!", because her scenes last night were so powerful.

Agree. I love Juliet and would love to have her back, but it was a very powerful death scene and the return would have to be pretty significant to outweigh negating that.

i don't understand why she could NOT survive. she was alive at the bottom, although spitting up blood. obviously only had a few moments to live. but sayid, being shot and losing blood, jack or someone made the remark that they had to get moving before he croaked. so if sayid and juliet are hanging on by a thread and the bomb goes off, why would they not flash, all of them as long as they are alive?

also, i am not saying that when they flash, that they all flash together. juliet not be a part of the plane would most certainly not be with the losties wherever they flash to. she was holding a very boring book club meeting when the flight went down.

Did Juliet Die? Or was that a flash forward at the end? Now that bomb dropped a long way down that shaft and did not explode, so you think a rock was going to set it off? I really believe that the end was a flash forward to 2007 and when Jacob said to Unlocke "they are coming" he was referring to jack and companions including Juliet. BTW Juliet fell down the shaft and she was hurt but still kicking.....

Ozieozwall, what part was she kicking? The part where she was bleeding profusely from her mouth, or the part where she could not move her lower body because it had been mangled by steel chains and was still trapped by steel chains?

she was hurt but still kicking.....

i think this means she's "alive and kicking". it's a saying. i don't think it's meant to be taken literally.;)

I think some people are assuming that when we get back to the show next year that it will pick up on the island where it left off - with the 1977 people, in whatever shape they were in at the end of this episode, vaulted back to 2007. I don't think we have any evidence that that's what will happen. They set off an h-bomb. The 1977 island with everyone on it - kicking or not - is gone.

Anything can happen with this reset. Is the island gone forever now? Probably not. But the way they've structured it, they could move the entire show to LA for the last season if they wanted to - a Elizabeth could do both her shows. Alternatively, they could do several episodes without her while she films V (which I don't think has even been officially picked up as a series yet, has it?) and then she could come back to finish out LOST. We have nothing that tells us that Juliet is dead and gone forever any more than we have for the other characters who all blew up at the end.

This story has been told as a reset from the beginning. There isn't even really much that tells us that the characters in 1977 will end up in 2007 other than we expect Jin and Sun will find each other again.

Regarding Juliet's demise - man, I've cried at TV shows and movies before but I was actually sobbing. I felt so numb after. Josh and Elizabeth acted their butts off in that scene and, more than anything, I don't want Sawyer and Juliet to lose each other. I want them to find each other again because they have the kind of love that Rose and Bernard have - the kind where the person is almost a part of you.

Has anyone suggested that she'll wake up naked in the jungle?
Ooh I hope so!
EM is a fox!

The part where she was bleeding profusely from her mouth, or the part where she could not move her lower body because it had been mangled by steel chains and was still trapped by steel chains?

Well, she did roll completely over onto her stomach to hit the bomb. That tells me her back wasn't broken and that she wasn't completely mangled or trapped by all that metal craziness that fell on top of her.

And actually the blood out of her mouth is an interesting topic that's been discussed here and over on Dark's website. First camera shot has blood coming out of her mouth, the next camera shot just has a little blood trickling out of her mouth, and then after she saw the bomb (in another shot), there is no blood coming out of her mouth.

Mean anything? Maybe not. But just thought I'd bring it up :)

I am fully aware what he meant Maxaholic and I answered accordingly. When you say someone is alive and kicking, it means, they are hail and hearty. This was not the case with Juliet. I don't know if she is dead. she most likely is. It's a non-issue for me.

Dany, I can't understand why you would compare Sawyer and Juliet to Rose and Bernard. There is no similarity whatsoever. LOL. Even Sawyer did not see a similarity(and he ought to know better than us), hence the LOOK, that started the chain of events for Juliet that led to her demise which is the topic of the thread :)
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Eowyn, the problem with us as Lost fans is sometimes we refuse to believe simple things and think everything has myth behind it. Juliet fell down a God knows how many feet pit after being mangled by steel chains and was at the bottom as metal objects tumbled into that pit. When we saw her, blood was trickling down her mouth and when she turned over, it came right out of her mouth. Barring an injury to her mouth, that is the first sign of internal bleeding anywhere, which would be an understandable result of her accident. Her back is the least of her problems.

Besides, detailing her injuries serves no purpose. If they want her to die by a butter knife, she will die like that. If they want a character to survive an explosion, the character will survive. I dread the hiatus. We will hear all sorts. LOL.

OH and something else...
This has probably already been brought up but the similarities between Season 5 and Season 2 have been touched on a few times but the most obvious comparison is Desmond exploding the hatch (to white) and Juliet exploding the bomb (to white).

And somehow, Desmond managed to survive being at ground zero for that explosion.

Here's hoping :)
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Besides, detailing her injuries serves no purpose. If they want her to die by a butter knife, she will die like that. If they want a character to survive an explosion, the character will survive. I dread the hiatus. We will hear all sorts. LOL.

haha. its true. But that's one reason I'm holding out hope she's alive. We haven't seen her dead. And anything can happen on this show, lol.

I also dread this hiatus. *headdesk*

I think some people are assuming that when we get back to the show next year that it will pick up on the island where it left off - with the 1977 people, in whatever shape they were in at the end of this episode, vaulted back to 2007. I don't think we have any evidence that that's what will happen. They set off an h-bomb. The 1977 island with everyone on it - kicking or not - is gone.

Anything can happen with this reset. Is the island gone forever now? Probably not. But the way they've structured it, they could move the entire show to LA for the last season if they wanted to - a Elizabeth could do both her shows. Alternatively, they could do several episodes without her while she films V (which I don't think has even been officially picked up as a series yet, has it?) and then she could come back to finish out LOST. We have nothing that tells us that Juliet is dead and gone forever any more than we have for the other characters who all blew up at the end.

This story has been told as a reset from the beginning. There isn't even really much that tells us that the characters in 1977 will end up in 2007 other than we expect Jin and Sun will find each other again.

Regarding Juliet's demise - man, I've cried at TV shows and movies before but I was actually sobbing. I felt so numb after. Josh and Elizabeth acted their butts off in that scene and, more than anything, I don't want Sawyer and Juliet to lose each other. I want them to find each other again because they have the kind of love that Rose and Bernard have - the kind where the person is almost a part of you.

I'm one of the people who thinks the Incident will flash the Losties back to 2007. I don't think the last season of Lost will be shot in L.A. If the bomb did what Daniel expected it to do, I will give props to the writers, because taking the story from a reset to a conclusion in one short season is more than I can imagine. If it happens, all the better. I do think Jacob's "They're coming," is a clue that the 77 Losties are coming, but he could be referring to Ilana and Co.

As to everyone dying and the island disappearing if the bomb exploded, there are different opinions on this. Some people say it is not the whole bomb and it is in a very deep shaft, and would certainly kill anyone at the bottom but not necessarily everyone at the top. I don't know anything about bombs, so I can't say.

I do think that Juliet and Sayid are in a comparable position, both badly hurt. I don't think Sayid will necessarily die, though I guess he could. He either gets flashed to another time and someone (Jack? the island?) repairs him, or gets reset and isn't wounded. I think Juliet's proximity to the bomb makes it possible that she is killed by it while Sayid at the surface is spared. But she could get fixed in a flash to another time or escape injury in a reset as well.

I think it's possible that the white light was just a flash and not the bomb, but I think it was probably the bomb. Even when Des set off the failsafe, there was some sort of explosion. I don't think the magnetism by itself would send people flashing, would it?

ETA: As Jade said, if it's an explosion that sets off a time flash, Juliet could survive it as Desmond does. I guess we are supposed to wonder about all this over the hiatus -- that's what cliffhangers are all about!

as injured as juliet was, i agree with that she was kicking. kicking butt to get done what needed to be done. to get done what they had set out to do. when sawyer said, this ain't LAX, it seemed to be a little bit of distress, disappointment of what they had just been through and done that the bomb didn't go off. so for juliet to be so near death, she was "kicking" in order to get that bomb to go off.

and is it appropriate or not that the last words we hear from juliet's mouth are the most famous sawyer words....sonofab*tch!:biggrin:

...

and is it appropriate or not that the last words we hear from juliet's mouth are the most famous sawyer words....sonofab*tch!:biggrin:

Agree, max, great writing!

It was so freaking SAD! OMG I was yelling at the TV that she would reset time and would not be dead. Absolutely the saddest scene EVER on LOST. Why do almost all my favorite characters die? Faraday, Sayid, Juliet, Libby, Boone, etc.

You forgot probably the most loved character of them all. Good ol' Charlie.

Dany, I can't understand why you would compare Sawyer and Juliet to Rose and Bernard. There is no similarity whatsoever. LOL. Even Sawyer did not see a similarity(and he ought to know better than us), hence the LOOK, that started the chain of events for Juliet that led to her demise which is the topic of the thread :)


It doesn't appear that Kate saw any similarity between Rose/Bernard or Kate/Sawyer then because she sure wasn't looking back at Sawyer. I think Sawyer and Juliet have the same kind of relationship the Bernard and Rose do. They have a mature, loving, trusting relationship where each is an integral part of the other. All the epic couples on this show have the same kind of relationship - Jin/Sun, Rose/Bernard, Sawyer/Juliet, Desmond/Penny. Perhaps Sawyer and Kate could have gotten there - I don't personally believe they could have given their issues - the fact is, they didn't. I think Jack and Kate are more likely to get there but they haven't yet either.

Your style of writing implies a confidence in what you believe, gocp, which is fine. But telling other fans what the writers are "really" telling us isn't conducive to good conversation and it can really tick people off.

Dany, I am not telling others what the writers are really telling us. I wouldn't. I was just repeating what the writers said or did.
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Have you noticed the difference in the couples that you have compared Sawyer and Juliet to? LOL. They were all established in the first season. All have been separated and re-united. All have had one type of drama or the other to overcome. ALL have had backstories. Episodes dedicated to their backstories.

The writers felt it "insignificant" to show that for sawyer and Juliet and hoped the audience would buy it. Some did. They were established in the 7th episode of the penultimate season. The were living a fantasy though genuine fellings were involved..I mean, I think we will just agree to disagree because for conducive discussion it is always best to deal with the visual presentation on screen and not sentiments.
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If Kate had looked back at Sawyer it would have been presumptuous of her. Kate does not need to prove she loves Sawyer anymore to any viewer. WHH did that and while some were doubtful over what that episode meant, The writers have set us straight that it meant exactly what it looked like it meant. . I think we should try and keep the thread on topic and leave Sawyer and Kate out of it as best we can. I know it is difficult :)

Yes Sawyer and Juliet were set up later than the first season. The only couple you could truly say was set up from the beginning of the ones I mentioned was Jin/Sun. We didn't even met Bernard until Season 2, Desmond/Penny also Season 2.

Sawyer and Juliet were set up in Season 5. But, in my opinion are the same type of couple as those other epic couples, the same "flavour" if you will, and are just as valid a coupling as any of those.

The writers felt it "insignificant" to show that for sawyer and Juliet and hoped the audience would buy it. Some did. They were established in the 7th episode of the penultimate season. The were living a fantasy though genuine fellings were involved


I don't think the writers decided anything was insignificant. The fact that they have a certain amount of story left to tell in a certain amount of time means that sometimes, non-essential background is left out. I personally would love to see Sawyer and Juliet starting at the beginning but I haven't gotten that. But then, we've only gotten "glimpses" into the lives of the other epic couples. For all of them, in fact, we saw how they met but we didn't see their first sexual experiences - or the first kisses.

I mean, I think we will just agree to disagree because for conducive discussion it is always best to deal with the visual presentation on screen and not sentiments.

Again, I don't know what you're saying. Are you saying I'm being sentimental in finding Sawyer and Juliet epic? One has to accept that people have different views - my version of epic is not the same as someone else's. I'm offering my opinion based on what I saw "in the visual presentation on screen" and how it made me feel. Others don't feel the same, which is fine. But every single poster here is commenting on what happened on screen and how they feel about it.

I don't understand why some people imply that Juliet wanted or chose to die because she realized that Sawyer would never love her as he loves Kate. It's not like she put the chain around her waist and jumped into the hole. She chooses to detonate the H bomb because she wakes up and realizes she would never make it out of the pit anyway (and this is putting the medical knowledge she has to have aside).

PS: and yes, Sawyer and Juliet's relashionship was set up later in the show but that doesn't mean we are not going to know more about it, at least through flashbacks.

R.I.P. fantastic cleavage shots. You shall be missed.

Exactly. It could go either way. Desmond survived the Swan exploding once, Juliet could do the same. I don't think she will be a regular next season, obviously because of V, but they could certainly bring her back for a few episodes if they wanted to be nice to us and not have her be dead! :)

Wait, OMG are you saying that Juliet (or the woman playing her, eh) is going to be in the remake of V?
OMFG! I loved that show when I was a kid and to have Juliet in it eating small rodents? I am having an emotional Swan Station sized meltdown.

Wait, OMG are you saying that Juliet (or the woman playing her, eh) is going to be in the remake of V?
OMFG! I loved that show when I was a kid and to have Juliet in it eating small rodents? I am having an emotional Swan Station sized meltdown.

She's apparently got the lead, though only the pilot has been shot and the series hasn't been picked up yet. I didn't see the original but your talk of Elizabeth Mitchell eating small rodents has certainly piqued my curiosity, if not my appetite. ;)

Everyone should remember what show it is we love so much! I don't think she is dead?

Maybe she was just blasted into the jungle with no clothes, like Desmond. I can see her in tie-dye, definitely.

Personally, I suspect she's dead. That was such a huge and dramatic exit, and they don't usually backtrack on one of those. However, anything is possible on LOST. She might be blown into the jungle like Desmond, and wind up being cared for by Rose and Bernard in some new little hut in whatever time period they flashed to... IF they flashed. Maybe the island will heal her. Anything is possible, but I still think it's most likely she's dead.

She was a great character, and she had a good run and a magnificent exit. That might be all we can hope for for any of them. :eek2:

Maybe she was just blasted into the jungle with no clothes, like Desmond.
Oh my! There's a thought! (blush!!!) :redface: A private fantasy of mine fulfilled!

naughty, :naughty: naughty!

I thought it was a great scene. Did anyone else get the feeling that it was similar to when Smokie pulled the french guy down under the temple? The chain -- the chain noises and it wrapping around her body like that and Sawyer holding on to her arm. It was a little creepy how similar the two scenes were.

Exactly! (And like all of the other times Smokie grabbed people such as Locke & Eko). I was searching this thread to see if anyone else saw the connection.

I think maybe they thought ripping her arm off would be too cruel, or, she needed her hands to detonate the bomb ;) You see how convenient writing can be for Darlton?! I keep saying Juliet was killed by smokey in the form of chains. It is too similar to the many ways Smokey has taken people.

Personally, I suspect she's dead. That was such a huge and dramatic exit, and they don't usually backtrack on one of those. However, anything is possible on LOST. She might be blown into the jungle like Desmond, and wind up being cared for by Rose and Bernard in some new little hut in whatever time period they flashed to... IF they flashed. Maybe the island will heal her. Anything is possible, but I still think it's most likely she's dead.

She was a great character, and she had a good run and a magnificent exit. That might be all we can hope for for any of them. :eek2:Hope, I hope to seen her again, like Charlie, Shannon and Boone. It was such a heart wrenching exit, you don't want to diminish the impact. Yet, TPTB added the slight hint she may be pregnant, what would the purpose have been if she is truly dead?

Exactly! (And like all of the other times Smokie grabbed people such as Locke & Eko). I was searching this thread to see if anyone else saw the connection.When I rewatched yesterday morning, I noticed that too. In a way it reminded me of the Balrog, in LOTR, falling into the abyss, lashing back to snatch Gandalf.

what would the purpose have been if she is truly dead?

beyond that, why would she be dead, really?

all of the losties standing above ground, including sayid if he is still alive, will transport. why would juliet not? she was alive, beating the bomb with a rock. sayid was the one that said, "i'm already gone" to jack seeing that he was taking his last breaths. the time span between jack leaving the van and the bomb actually being detonated could easily have given sayid his last breath. but juliet was alive; therefore, would go back with wherever the losties go. she will probably not be lying in the woods where they are, but somewhere on the island.

Hope, I hope to seen her again, like Charlie, Shannon and Boone. It was such a heart wrenching exit, you don't want to diminish the impact. Yet, TPTB added the slight hint she may be pregnant, what would the purpose have been if she is truly dead?
.

What was the slight hint she might be pregnant?

What was the slight hint she might be pregnant?

I think people are thinking the "hand to the stomach" scene with Juliet at the end of the Rose and Bernard scene was the hint.

There's other threads on it. Sawyer and Kate have already walked off, Bernard asks Juliet if she wants to stay and have tea (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1490-891.html) with the combination of Juliet placing her hand on her stomach. It was very subtle.

When I rewatched yesterday morning, I noticed that too. In a way it reminded me of the Balrog, in LOTR, falling into the abyss, lashing back to snatch Gandalf.

Yeah, I thought of that too. Also, Sawyer holding onto her saying "Don't you let go" totally reminded me of Sam holding Frodo in Mt Doom saying the same exact thing.
Interesting too, when you think how in LOTR the RING ends up getting destroyed in the fire, and in Lost we (might) have Juliet "destroying" a TIME LOOP in a (thermonuclear) fire so to speak. Juliet is a real hero in this case, and a great way for a great character to go out (assuming she does).

Maybe she was just hungry.

Peckish, even. :essen:

LOL. God knows she hasn't been able to play old mama bear, too often, grilling bacon and ham in blind happiness, since the 06 returnerd.

Or Maybe she was just sickened by what she had just seen. Rose and Bernie wax lyrical about soul mateyness, she looks at her love, he looks at his love, his love not daring to look anywhere lest she be shot by Juliet or her fans, looks at a leaf, though she finally slides a glance to her love as she gets up. God knows when you hear something unpleasant, it is an unconscious thought to place hand on midriff. Tea? Maybe Bernard saw her looking upset. Maybe we will fine out Bernard knew she was going to die. He was looking like a visionary with the facial hair and stick like Moses.

Re Jules pregnant-Dear God! Online Lost fans will never cease to amaze me with such active imaginations.

Guess what? That is what the show and this board are all about. Imaginations and theories and best guesses and this is the place to talk about all those things.

And seeing we are posting here, it makes us all online fans so your comment is a tad overboard.

Bailey, No harm intended. I include myself in any online fans comments :)

I think people are thinking the "hand to the stomach" scene with Juliet at the end of the Rose and Bernard scene was the hint.

That seems pretty slight indeed, to me.

^^^i'm with you.

I believe Juliet was a sacrifice the island demanded. I hope not but I think so.

Personally, I think it's pretty unfair for the writers to NOT save Juliet's character after what she did to detonate the bomb. Part of the reason the scene was huge was that she was under the assumption that detonating the bomb will make it so she (and everyone else who died) would live. It's some bologna sandwich if she ends up being dead.

It was beautiful what she did at the end, causing it to blow up.


Why was her causing the bomb to (supposedly) blow up beautiful? They were all working together to help detonate the bomb and in doing so they were all going to die.
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Personally, I think it's pretty unfair for the writers to NOT save Juliet's character after what she did to detonate the bomb. .


After what she did to detonate the bomb? What did she do? She smacked it with a rock after being dragged into the hole by those chains that magically grabbed her around the waist. She didn't do anything heroic. They were all sacrificing themselves by trying to detonate the bomb.

I wouldn't hold out hope
unless you are one of the big four on Lost, post season 4, you are DEAD DEAD DEAD

Why was her causing the bomb to (supposedly) blow up beautiful? They were all working together to help detonate the bomb and in doing so they were all going to die.
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After what she did to detonate the bomb? What did she do? She smacked it with a rock after being dragged into the hole by those chains that magically grabbed her around the waist. She didn't do anything heroic. They were all sacrificing themselves by trying to detonate the bomb.

I think the melodrama of the scene has got people blowing it out of proportion. It was a "nice" send off for the sawyer and Juliet pairing but there was nothing heroic or beautiful about it or Juliet detonating the bomb when you think about it.

Its not like Juliet jumped into the pit after Jack threw the bomb in there and it did not explode. She was dragged in there, kicking and screaming. If anything, with all the pain she was feeling, she wanted to put herself out of her own misery. She knew no one was coming down that pit to look for her. Not even Sawyer after all his "Don't you let go" melodrama. That's all gravy but he a'int jumping in after ya... So, she might as well blow up the spot.

They gave her something useful to do right before she died, so her death wouldn't seem the useless, pointless, serving the original triangle fodder it actually was. Yawn.

Yeah, I don't think she is coming back, but it would be nice.

They do have a formula here. If you aint one of the original 4 your dead. Someone else said it so I'm going to say it too. EVERYONE BUT, Kate, Jack, Sawyer, and Locke are GUNNA DIE!

....but thats the thing. Locke is dead. TOQ is just playing another character. Locke is dead and was carried around in a box until he was revealed.

I have to say for the record, As long as all our original Losties, meaning Kate, Sawyer, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Sayid and Jack make it to the end of the series, I will be fine. I am in full support of offing any hitch hiker once they've served their purpose :) We don't have enough episodes in the series finale to waste on giving others lines and mini stories. I would not mind more of Des and Pen but I don't know whats happening there.

Poor thing and she had a red shirt the whole way through...=((

I think the melodrama of the scene has got people blowing it out of proportion


melodrama: a work characterized by extravagant theatricality.

forgive me, but i think when one part of a couple is falling into a pit to her death and the other is unsuccessfully holding onto their hand to save their life that it deems some sort of drama.

Locke is dead.

you're right, locke is dead. he was killed off the island, and he is dead because he did what the island wanted him to do. he went and tried to convince the o6 to return. he was done. he wasn't special like he had hoped.

as far as juliet is concerned, i think she served her purpose by being magically dragged into the pit in order to set off the bomb. whoever had been standing nearest would have been dragged down. she was just there. but when the bomb detonated, she was not dead. was sayid? he thought he was "already gone", but he may have been able to hold on until the bomb went off, maybe not. if he died before the bomb, then i think that sayid is the "death". now as far as juliet, why would she not survive along with the others above ground? she was alive. just because some are thrilled that she may be gone doesn't make it that she is.

Maxaholic, IMO, whether I like the couple or not, whether you think my opinion cool or uncool, that scene was melodramatic. Exaggeration of emotions to intensify the scene. There is no definition of melodramatic you will find that will not apply to that scene.

I could easily say the only reason you like it is because you like the couple for other reasons and thats not cool. It's my opinion. You can disagree with but it's no more uncool than yours :)

For the record, I am not thrilled that Juliet is gone. I am not bothered, but I am not thrilled. I would not have minded her in season 6 because Jack is going to need someone to help now that he is the only doctor left there and he is also going to need her shoulder for the 2nd time to lean on.

i think the drama was very important to the scene whether either one of us likes the couple. it broke my heart to see sawyer trying so hard to hold onto her. she said "it hurts" so when she said that it's ok, i suppose she didn't want to be cut in half. i think if we switched sawyer with jack, it would have been the same minus the ILYs of course. they are all friends, have been for 3 years and to lose someone that horrifically would be devasting or dramatic. i'm just questioning your theory of the actors

Exaggeration of emotions to intensify the scene.

What theory of the actors?

I agree that it would have been the same no matter who barring the ILU and I will always love you repeatedly chanted by Juliet.

Afterall, Kate was there pulling the chain and I remember how emotional Sawyer was still dragging the rope when Locke fell into the pit so any death at this point, especially one so brutal, would be emotional but I guess there is a fine line on how such things play out and if I find myself saying "fall already" in a scene that is supposed to make me sad, then its OTT for me. JMO. You and I disagree which is fine :)

JMO. You and I disagree which is fine :)

you're right. it is fine.;) and i can totally see where you're coming from with the "fall already". been there done that many times.

We need a "Bring Back Brigade"

Bring back Juliet - throw Kate down the hole (thier acting is like chalk and cheese sorry evie but the best scene youve done was counting to 5 in S1) ...Bring back Jacob in Ekos body and lets see someone try to put a knife in him then. Bring back Daniel in a surprise twist where he posted himself a letter saying wear a bulletproof vest and finally bring back Froghurt because he was just so darn cute.

anyone seen the screenshot of a Juliet look-alike in the Ben walking to the foot scene, she is about 59 years old..

@Dylan-1200- Nobody is bringing back anybody. Dead is dead. Hehe ;) Dontcha just love the episode titles?! I think we have to wait till next season on Juliet.

IMO, I think she is dead. There was a major death in the finale. Not in the 1st episode oif next season so it can't be Sayid. So, its either Juliet or Locke. Locke did not die in the finale. He was revealed as dead in the finale. Who fell down a pit and detonated a hydrogen bomb in her face? Juliet. She may appear again like Charlie and so on but not as an ongoing character.

As far as acting, Evies eyebrows act better than EM so lets not even go there :) IMO. We all have our preferences.

...
As far as acting, Evies eyebrows act better than EM so lets not even go there :) IMO. We all have our preferences.

You know, that's true, it is absolutely all IMO. And we do all have our own preferences. ***Mod edited***

it was beautiful what she did at the end, causing it to blow up. An amazing ending. Amazing that her character got to end the season that way. But, it's terribly sad.

the bomb did not go off! And it will not go off!

OK I was a bit harsh on Evie shes been great to watch over the years and she goes out with a hobbit so that def scores her points. =))

I guess its like cheers. We know the main chars but we all fell in love with Woody. Its tough to watch some of the chars introduced along the way we invest emotionally in bite the proverbial bullet.

I don't know about the safety of the originals. Charlie was as original as they come, major league character and they killed him off.

So I don't think any of them are safe at this point, the Final season. Any one of them could go at any point.

We need a "Bring Back Brigade"

Bring back Juliet'

count me in on bringing her back, but I disagree on Kate, I also love her. I just think Juliet deserves more than being another pawn for this triangle crapola fest. Just have Skate get together, it's inevitable-Damon's mentioned his grandma lurves Sawyer-and concentrate on other storylines. Jack can be the hero, and Juliet deserves to find her sis and be happy for once.

She better not be DEAD DEAD!

Juliet is the best female character LOST ever had.

I hope time reset itself.

She doesn't have to be dead, right? RIGHT?? I don't think I could deal with it if she was!!

From how amazing and kickass she was all episode, to her heartbreaking 'death' scene, Juliet is the best female character on the show. They can't kill her, right? Please?

A Hydorgen Bomb was detonated. They are all dead. Or they are all alive. Either way, at this point they all share the same fate.

I agree with all your posts and I hope you're right teksmith

I don't know about the safety of the originals. Charlie was as original as they come, major league character and they killed him off.

So I don't think any of them are safe at this point, the Final season. Any one of them could go at any point.
Indeed. Like it or not, that's where we are in the series. At least Juliet got a huge, show-stopping death that meant something to other characters. She'll be grieved for and missed. Poor Locke, who was a far bigger part of the show, died in a crummy hotel room feeling like a total failure. And if that weren't enough, some potentially malignant force has hi-jacked his likeness. That sucks. :(

No matter how I fanwank it, I can't come up with a scenario in which Jules will live. It was only the detonator and not the entire H-bomb, but it would still create a heck of an explosion in that pit. Enough to stop the stream of electro-magnetic energy, at least. I just don't believe they'll be landing at LAX... nobody gets to play god like that.

Locke, Juliet, and possibly Sayid. It's getting brutal. :frown:

I think at this point the writers are keeping their options open. She may be dead, but she might not. Great scene, though, EM was awesome, as the seasoned actress that she is, and it's the best we've seen of Holloway so far.

she has to be alive. either the hydrogen bomb killed all the losties (wouldn't happen) or it fixed things. or an unforeseen third option. but elizabeth mitchell is definitely hot. that much is certain. so she needs to come back for next season.

i think that everyone who was alive before the bomb went off will be alive. all the folks who died after he plane crash will still be dead because i don't think they're going to be in LA. i think they'll be on another part of the island.

juliet will definitely be alive.

i think that everyone who was alive before the bomb went off will be alive. all the folks who died after he plane crash will still be dead because i don't think they're going to be in LA. i think they'll be on another part of the island.

juliet will definitely be alive.

I don't know. But my goodness if Juliet is still alive next season the whole WHH crowd will be spitting nails with fire and melted lead on them. If Juliet can survive the impossible it means she changed history (and the lives of the rest of the Losties present).

I think the melodrama of the scene has got people blowing it out of proportion.

How can you say that the emotion was out of proportion for the moment? If my loved one was being sucked down a hole, I'd be screaming to 'hold on' too. And if I were the one who was being sucked down the hole, I'd be screaming that I loved the person trying to save me. If it hadn't been so emotional, I would have thought there was something wrong.
100%
If Juliet can survive the impossible .

Didn't all of our Losties survive the impossible...some of them more than once?

Didn't all of our Losties survive the impossible...some of them more than once?
absolutely!

if the ones up top survive, why wouldn't she survive too?

and it was a very dramatic scene, worth every moment. no melodrama involved.

'Lost Scoop': Juliet mystery (sort of) solved

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/05/lost-scoop-juli.html
And now for some news that should surprise no one (http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-eliza.html): ABC is expected to announce tomorrow that it has picked up a reboot of the camptastic '80s thriller V and that Lost heroine Elizabeth Mitchell is a full-time castmember. Translation: She will not be returning to Lost as a series regular.

However, before you go declaring Juliet DOA from last week's detonated hydrogen bomb, I should point out that this piece of scoop comes with a big but attached: Mitchell's Lost days are not done. Multiple sources confirm that the actress is expected to appear in an unspecified number of episodes next season, so it's entirely possible Juliet survived Jughead and her absence will be explained in another way. (Check out Doc Jensen's column this Wednesday for a comprehensive Juliet theorypalooza.)

yea i was upset when i saw her fall but thrilled at what she did to the bomb.....

Didn't all of our Losties survive the impossible...some of them more than once?
Yes, I'd say falling from a broken jet is a bit less survivable than a couple hundred feet of sliding down a well.

Yes, I'd say falling from a broken jet is a bit less survivable than a couple hundred feet of sliding down a well.

falling isn't the problem. It's how you land that determines whether you'll live or die.

The more information about V that we get, the more I think it highly unlikely that we'll see Juliet in any live form next season. And consider: her story arc was largely dropped by the writers in the last two seasons, and this once fantastic, enigmatic character has been useless. Her motivation to return to her sister, as well as the pregnancy issues and her 'vs. Ben' story, sadly, all but forgotten. So I really do believe that they've finished with her character, here in the home stretch of the series. IMO, they made her fairly weak and wibbly this season; with the return of Kate and Skate, she became mere triangle fodder. But they did give her a fantastic exit from the show. To go back now and pull a "gotcha! She's actually alive!", I think would really cheapen her final scene. She made an incredible sacrifice in blowing the bomb, and IMO, the writers will leave it at that. It had the same emotional resonance as Charlie's sacrifice...and I don't see any coming back from that.

In addition, Elizabeth Mitchell will be filming full time in Vancouver next year. That's not a quick trip between there and Hawaii, we're talking a 6+ hour flight each way, so she certainly won't be expected to be back on Lost full time. I think we'll be left with the question of whether or not Juliet survived all summer (Darlton must have their fun!), but if she returns next year, it'll be in a small capacity...a dream/vision sequence, or perhaps a flashback? :shrug:
100%
falling isn't the problem. It's how you land that determines whether you'll live or die.

Exactly. And we saw that Juliet had blood coming out of her mouth, which indicates severe internal bleeding. Even if the fall didn't kill her instantly, I think we're meant to understand that her minutes were numbered.

maybe her minutes were numbered, but she wasn't dead. we have no idea if the losties, when transported, are going to be injured as they were in the finale or if everything they've been through has been wiped clean. and as i've said before, if juliet survives, she wouldn't be on the same part of the island as they are. so, it would be very likely that she may not show up until later in the season, giving her plenty of time to taped her episodes for V.

maybe her minutes were numbered, but she wasn't dead. we have no idea if the losties, when transported, are going to be injured as they were in the finale or if everything they've been through has been wiped clean. and as i've said before, if juliet survives, she wouldn't be on the same part of the island as they are. so, it would be very likely that she may not show up until later in the season, giving her plenty of time to taped her episodes for V.

This is certainly possible, but as I said, with the majority of Juliet's storylines ignored for the past two seasons, I can't see what point there would be to bringing her back now. I think they wrapped her up the best way they could, in the time they have remaining, and at least managed to give her a kick-:censored: final episode.

We shall see.

Since she detonated the bomb, no one died, I think. Eko, Charlie, Nikki, Paulo, Claire, Shannon, Ana, Libby, etc everyone is alive because the plane never crashed, right?????????

I don't know if universe has a course correcting one way or another they will die...:rolleyes:
But it would definitly be great if we have the Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind vibe in lost...

if they actually went back to the time when they were on the plane, in the air, then i would think everyone would be alive. but i don't think that's where they're headed; therefore, whoever dead remains dead. that's why i think that juliet will survive and sayid only if he didn't die before the bomb went off.

I might be alone in this but I don't see how her story lines were ignored.

Her conflict with Ben was resolved when she found the courage to betray him and tell Jack the plan about kidnapping the pregnant women. She faced her fears and overcame them, and she got out from under Ben's power.

Amy was still there well into her last month of pregnancy, so the problem with carrying a baby to full term doesn't seem to have been an issue in the seventies. Women simply went to the mainland to give birth. Therefore, there was nothing for her to do about it since you can't study or fix a problem than doesn't exist.

She lost all confidence in herself as a doctor after the traumatic experience of watching all her patients die. She didn't even want to be a doctor any more, she chose to become a mechanic instead. However, we saw her overcome her fears when she performed a successful C-section on Amy. She was thrilled at being able to do that! And she immediately doctored Ben - it was just that the care he needed demanded a skilled surgeon, which is not her specialty.

As for her sister, she wouldn't have been reunited with her in 1974 if she had gone on the sub. She just would have lost any chance at getting back to her own time line. Nor would she be reunited with her sister in 1977, for that matter. Fixing the time warp was not in her power, so I don't see what she could have done about that either.

Reuniting with her sister is the only bit of her story that's left to resolve, but in a way that has been partially covered by the fact that she got to see that her sister was alive and had survived the pregnancy and was happily raising her child. Again, partly resolved.

As for the residual issues left from her parents' divorce, the visit with the Nadlers and the resolution of her relationship with Sawyer seems to have brought her clarity on that too. Now she understands that her parents did love each other, but that it was not the kind of love that keeps people together forever. Just as she knows Sawyer truly loved her, but had another love in his heart that he feels for Kate.

I liked Juliet and hate the fact that they've killed off a strong female character when we have so few of them. I would much rather have seen her go home to her family, but then again I really want a happy ending for almost all our Losties. However, I don't feel as though Juliet is leaving behind a string of unaddressed issues. I actually think they did a pretty good job of showing us how she resolved them.

Exactly. And we saw that Juliet had blood coming out of her mouth, which indicates severe internal bleeding. Even if the fall didn't kill her instantly, I think we're meant to understand that her minutes were numbered.

The freakin' hatch exploded/imploded and they all survived and you think we're supposed to just assume that Juliet is dead?

The freakin' hatch exploded/imploded and they all survived and you think we're supposed to just assume that Juliet is dead?

I know! As if a bomb that went off that was intended to blow the entire island to nothing and kill them all to reset all the actions of the past means nothing. I guess then it is safe to assume Sawyer, Kate and the rest of the survivors on the island died too last season? I mean we did see a bomb explode and Sawyer, Kate, Juliet, Jack, Sayid, Hurley, etc all be with in close distance of it exploding.

I wonder what Darlton are going to do next season with all it's main characters according to some people's logic now dead? What is Darlton going to give us a puppet show of the characters for the next however many episodes are left next season? I think not.:rolleyes:

***Mod edited***

again, whether juliet had blood pouring out of her mouth or not, she was not dead when the bomb went off. she cannot be eliminated if the others survive. especially sayid. he had moments left as well.

Poor thing and she had a red shirt the whole way through...=((
LMAO! I didn't even notice that...

Did Juliet's FB seem weird to anyone? Nothing dates it. Hair and clothes look like they could be present day. Jacob doesn't visit her, as he did in everyone else's FB. It seems very out of place and kind of a waste of time, if all they were saying, was sometimes love doesn't last.

Kate's and Sawyer's FBs have a dated feel to them.

Did Juliet's FB seem weird to anyone? Nothing dates it. Hair and clothes look like they could be present day. Jacob doesn't visit her, as he did in everyone else's FB. It seems very out of place and kind of a waste of time, if all they were saying, was sometimes love doesn't last.

Kate's and Sawyer's FBs have a dated feel to them.
There's a thread somewhere discussing the time of the FB.
The book on the coffee table has a copyright date of 1986.

ETA
-----------------------
Here's the thread
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=113615

Has Juliet joined the elite club of Variables? Desmond, Ben and Locke have all managed to change time.

Has Juliet joined the elite club of Variables? Desmond, Ben and Locke have all managed to change time.

I think so! I think that the point of showing us her background without showing us a meeting with Jacob after is to show that while the other losties are destined, she is one of the human variables that Daniel talked about.

It's also why I think she'll wind up somewhere totally random (probably the middle of the jungle like Des), separated from wherever the rest of them end up. (Hopefully she lands really close to the medical station ;) )

I think so! I think that the point of showing us her background without showing us a meeting with Jacob after is to show that while the other losties are destined, she is one of the human variables that Daniel talked about.


Woah. That's a very cool idea!

And yeah, Desmond wasn't touched by Jacob either.... and he survived the blowing up of the hatch (at the same location Juliet was trying to blow up the bomb) somehow. Hmmm Desy and Jules are variables, brought to the island both by other ways - wihch did not including being visited/touched by Jacob. Interesting!!

Did Juliet's FB seem weird to anyone? Nothing dates it. Hair and clothes look like they could be present day. Jacob doesn't visit her, as he did in everyone else's FB. It seems very out of place and kind of a waste of time, if all they were saying, was sometimes love doesn't last.

Kate's and Sawyer's FBs have a dated feel to them.


The flashback seems weird because they crowbarred it in trying to explain her stupid flip-flopping and decision making. She wants on the sub, then she wants off the sub to stop Jack, then she wants to help Jack... so everyone stands around while Jack tries to detonate the nuke and then everyone decides to actually do something to help Jack.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

The flashback seems weird because they crowbarred it in trying to explain her stupid flip-flopping and decision making. She wants on the sub, then she wants off the sub to stop Jack, then she wants to help Jack... so everyone stands around while Jack tries to detonate the nuke and then everyone decides to actually do something to help Jack.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Yes, it was pretty literal and lame.

they cut juliet's FB right in the midst of her running outside. it was abrupt, and for me, could easily continue on next year with her surprisingly running directly into jacob.

they cut juliet's FB right in the midst of her running outside. it was abrupt, and for me, could easily continue on next year with her surprisingly running directly into jacob.


A flashback to a flashback? Agh.

it doesn't really matter. i don't think that jacob's touch was to keep them alive after the bomb. i think it was to choose them to get on the plane and to be a part of the war.

juliet was chosen by ben and richard.

they cut juliet's FB right in the midst of her running outside. it was abrupt, and for me, could easily continue on next year with her surprisingly running directly into jacob.

Could be.

it doesn't really matter. i don't think that jacob's touch was to keep them alive after the bomb. i think it was to choose them to get on the plane and to be a part of the war.

juliet was chosen by ben and richard.
She was chosen by Ben, not Richard. He was just doing Ben's bidding when he recruited her. He specifically told Locke that he thought Ben's whole preoccupation with the pregnancy problem was a distraction from what he should have been thinking about.

no matter whether richard was involved or not. my point is that jacob not meeting and touching her has nothing to do with whether she will live or die.

We don't know the purpose of Jacob's touch: whether it was to protect these people, mark them, draw them to the island, or something else entirely. So, linking Jacob's touch with death or survival is speculation only at this point.

Seems to me after reading the entire thread that poor Juliet's getting the same treatment in death that she did in life: bearing the onus of the other woman. ***Mod edited***

I think it could be a fitting way to close the circle of Juliet's story if she is in fact dead: her destruction of the warhead causing the infertility problem that brought her to the island in the first place :)

no matter whether richard was involved or not. my point is that jacob not meeting and touching her has nothing to do with whether she will live or die.
Ok, got it now. Jacob's touch could mean anything right now... it's all so mysterious!:eek2:

We've only got 17 precious hours left to tell what seems like a lot of story. Juliet got a spectacular exit compared to poor Locke. He's the one who got a really crummy death. However, I think if they're going to move the story forward it won't be by undoing deaths as we go. JMO, of course.

Off island Juliet was married to Edward and they were divorced. He was seeing his lab assistant, something Juliet didn't seem surprised to learn, although, it was a new lab assistant. In retrospect she wouldn't have been the Other woman, although, she may have felt like it.

what goes around comes around, right?;)

We've only got 17 precious hours left to tell what seems like a lot of story. Juliet got a spectacular exit compared to poor Locke. He's the one who got a really crummy death. However, I think if they're going to move the story forward it won't be by undoing deaths as we go. JMO, of course.

Hello, fellow Canuck :wavey: , lol

The only thing is that with every other major death it has been confirmed right away that "yes [so-and-so] is dead". The latest being Locke and Daniel. To leave it in question for 8 months only to surprise the audience with "oh yeah... she actually died", seems super cruel of them? lol.

I do agree with you though - crummy death for Locke :( He was (as far as I understand it) a pawn used by evil-Jacob to find his loophole. :frown: Poor guy

eowyn, they purposely said in interviews that after the the finale, we would be wondering throughout the hiatus who was alive and who wasn't. so they are doing exactly what they told us they would do!;)

Haven't they left us hanging with Jin and Desmond? Blowing up raft, imploding hatch, blowing up freighter.

blowing up freighter.


right. the whole break everyone speculated about jin. oh he couldn't have survived. no way. i remember saying that he probably jumped, that the last scene of the freighter was right before it blew up and that there was no proof he was still on it. i was told i was wrong about that.

so you're right, sam, this is just the same. and how much fun is that?;)

I think it could be a fitting way to close the circle of Juliet's story if she is in fact dead: her destruction of the warhead causing the infertility problem that brought her to the island in the first place :)

You're right. That is quite a cruel irony and would be a fitting way to end Juliet's arc. The audience would have to find out that the pregnancy issue was a result of the bomb, and the bomb detonation would have to be Juliet's destined task, I guess, too -- no remaining jobs to do on the island. I'd love to see her survive, although I think there are pretty compelling dramatic reasons for having her dead.


...
Juliet got a spectacular exit compared to poor Locke. He's the one who got a really crummy death
...


Totally agree, Dezdemona.

Haven't they left us hanging with Jin and Desmond? Blowing up raft, imploding hatch, blowing up freighter.

Yep!
That's kind of my point though... we were left hanging about those - and they both ended up living? Same goes for Season 1 when Sawyer got shot on the raft.

And on the topic of Jacob's touch... we also have to remember that Jacob touched Locke. And Locke is now dead (and has been since last season apparently). It seems like Jacob's touch could be more about who came to the island initially? vs. who'll be there at the end?

All the people he touched were on flight 815. Desmond and Juliet were brought to the island through other means/people. And coincidently (?) both were on the island for the same three years. Weird?

Hello, fellow Canuck :wavey: , lol

The only thing is that with every other major death it has been confirmed right away that "yes [so-and-so] is dead". The latest being Locke and Daniel. To leave it in question for 8 months only to surprise the audience with "oh yeah... she actually died", seems super cruel of them? lol.

I do agree with you though - crummy death for Locke :( He was (as far as I understand it) a pawn used by evil-Jacob to find his loophole. :frown: Poor guy
Hello back, fellow Canuck! :wavey: :biggrin:

I know what you mean about the post-death interviews they've done with other characters, but I think this year they want to keep us guessing about EVERYBODY at the blast site. Honestly, my greatest fear is that they will pull a big Locke on us, have us watch all of S6 only to tell us at the end that all our Losties at the Swan have been dead since the explosion... and we were just watching ghosts or entities like Christian (whatever he is). Can you imagine? Finding out that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Hurley, Jin et al were actually dead all season long???????? :eek2:

I don't trust Darlton on stuff like this. It would be just like them to joke about zombie season for years when that's exactly what they had planned all along. Aargh! This is going to be the toughest hiatus yet!!!! :confused:

Hello back, fellow Canuck! :wavey: :biggrin:

I know what you mean about the post-death interviews they've done with other characters, but I think this year they want to keep us guessing about EVERYBODY at the blast site. Honestly, my greatest fear is that they will pull a big Locke on us, have us watch all of S6 only to tell us at the end that all our Losties at the Swan have been dead since the explosion... and we were just watching ghosts or entities like Christian (whatever he is). Can you imagine? Finding out that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Hurley, Jin et al were actually dead all season long???????? :eek2:

I don't trust Darlton on stuff like this. It would be just like them to joke about zombie season for years when that's exactly what they had planned all along. Aargh! This is going to be the toughest hiatus yet!!!! :confused:

K... I thought the "zombie season" joke was funny until you made that point.:eek2:
Seriously...that would be terrible! lol. Haven't they promised us that this has nothing to do with purgatory? That would be too much like that.

She doesn't have to be dead, right? RIGHT?? I don't think I could deal with it if she was!!

From how amazing and kickass she was all episode, to her heartbreaking 'death' scene, Juliet is the best female character on the show. They can't kill her, right? Please?

Since Juliet was very much alive and kicking before the bomb went off, then I believe she will be alive afterwards. Juliet was part of the time tripping crew, so if Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Miles, Sayid, and Hurley survive, why wouldn't Juliet? All of them were right next to ground zero when that bomb went off, so either all of them died or all of them survived.

Again, Juliet was alive before the bomb went off. She wasn't dead like Locke, Boone, Shannon, Charlie, etc., so the "dead is dead" rule doesn't apply to her.

Since Juliet was very much alive and kicking before the bomb went off, then I believe she will be alive afterwards. Juliet was part of the time tripping crew, so if Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Miles, Sayid, and Hurley survive, why wouldn't Juliet? All of them were right next to ground zero when that bomb went off, so either all of them died or all of them survived.

Again, Juliet was alive before the bomb went off. She wasn't dead like Locke, Boone, Shannon, Charlie, etc., so the "dead is dead" rule doesn't apply to her.


I'm just hoping you are right!

Since Juliet was very much alive and kicking before the bomb went off, then I believe she will be alive afterwards.
She wasn't "alive and kicking" at all. She was bleeding profusely from injuries sustained in an 80 foot (or more) drop. Unless they really do reset time so that the plane never crashed - which I don't believe they'll do - she'd likely be dead in minutes. She detonated the bomb because she always detonated the bomb, just one more case of WHH. We always knew about The Incident, now we know how it happened. Just like we always knew Ben became a cold, manipulative SOB and we got to see how that came about.

The story is now moving in a whole different direction, with Locke, Jacob, Ben, as well as Richard with Ilana's group. I don't think they're going to go backwards in the story just to pick up a character they just dropped. Juliet's death was tragic and emotional, but I do believe that it was her demise. If we see her on the show again, it will likely be with Esau or Jacob using her image as they did with Locke, Christian, Yemi and Alex.

"alive and kicking" is a saying. whoever quoted that meant that she was alive.....which we know that she was, and she was kicking.....as in kicking some a** to detonate the bomb. i think we all know that she was not literally kicking.

i don't understand why juliet is the only one out of all the people that is going to die. and i don't agree that "this is always what happened". daniel made it clear to jack that his mum lied to him that he wasn't suppose to be there. jack had never been in that place before and when dan showed up at the others camp and was killed by his mum, which always happened, then there was no bomb. off island hawking put jack there so that he could take the moment that "always happened" with dan dying and then convincing on island hawking to help him carry out dan's plan. chang's arm got hurt like "it always happened" because they were at the moment when the incident was beginning. if what i'm saying isn't true, then why did daniel say that jack wasn't suppose to be there and that his mum lied?


Alive and Kicking by SIMPLE MINDS

Now it's all or nothing
'Cause you say you'll follow through
You follow me, and I, I, I follow you

What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?
What you gonna do when the Love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?
Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What's it gonna take to make a dream survive?
Who's got the touch to calm the storm inside?
Who's gonna save you?
Alive and Kicking

i don't understand why juliet is the only one out of all the people that is going to die


It's only my opinion but I think her story was over. It's the only reason I can think of that Darlton would allow her to audition for other shows. If they needed her for season 6 she wouldn't be doing V. I know they could work around her schedule so that she could film both but I don't think anybody has stopped to think if that's what Elizabeth would want to do. She has a family and lives much closer to where V is filming than Hawaii. It seems to me that would take a lot of time away from her child/children and husband to try and do both shows full time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if she flashed with the rest of them wouldn't she take her injuries with her?

Correct me if I'm wrong but if she flashed with the rest of them wouldn't she take her injuries with her?
actually, i have no idea. i suppose whatever they want to do they will do. it's an odd place to be and anything can happen. we certainly didn't see the non-locke coming.

i think that when they were batting around the idea for sawyer and juliet to hook up, they, along with cast and crew didn't think it was going to work. they probably thought that juliet would die at the end of the season; therefore, gave her permission to audition for V. TV guide said that they were taken aback by how much they thought suliet had chemistry and really liked it. the fans liked it, at least some of them. maybe the writers changed their minds, saw that it worked with her filming V and lost at the same time. i don't think she'd come back as a regular, but she could finish up her storyline or start a new one to end the series easily by filming both shows.

but....if she's dead, then sayid has to be dead. he was hanging by a thread and if he flashes with his injuries as well, in all reality, he's a goner.

but we know that what the island wants, it gets. if it wants someone alive, they live.

And how will Juliet not suffocate underneath the Swan if there's a time jump to the present? She's in an 80 feet deep shaft and we have seen that the characters land exactly where they were when they flash to another time line and said shaft is gone in present time. All that's left is soil.


Haven't they left us hanging with Jin and Desmond? Blowing up raft, imploding hatch, blowing up freighter.


The difference is that neither DDK nor HIC signed up as the series lead on a new show when their character's lives were hanging in the balance.

I almost feel like they didn't do enough with Juliet. They had so much oportunity with her but I honestly feel that TPTB squandered it for whatever reason. We did learn how the Others were recruiting post purge which was cool. We also learned via Juliet why the Others were so interested in Claire in season 1... nevertheless I still think they could've done more with her.

I felt cheated when I saw her fall down the mine shaft, but I was a bit relieved when she went out with a bang.

I have a feeling she'll be one of those undead characters that pop up.

that's the thing, caelitus, she was underused probably because she got the part on V. they knew they were gonna kill her off, so they downplayed her character and gave her this lovely "send off" by putting her in a 3-yr relationship with sawyer. but what they didn't realize was that it worked. the fans loved it. so, they could let her be dead like they probably planned, or they can use her to switch up and tweek the series ending.

again, like i said before, jack and charlie were both suppose to die early on. jack never did and charlie lasted 2 more seasons. it can happen. it can work.

I'm with you Max. I feel that if she were only going to be a ghost or something corny the head of ABC wouldn't have made a big deal about her being on both shows. I may be the only person that thinks V was handed to her on a platter, but that's my thinking. Anyway I get the feeling the story is going to revolve around the origional characters next season. keep in mind Ben showed up earlier than Juliet (season 2) so she could have easily been allowed to do V, and Lost if they don't need her until the last half of the season. Elizabeth did stress on Kimmel that she has been doing both shows at the same time, "if that gives you any kind of an idea." Everything she said in the Kimmel interview was actually true, so I would assume she'll be working on Lost more than some people may think. Of course this is my opinion and I've been proven wrong before, but I dunno that's what I think.

I may be the only person that thinks V was handed to her on a platter, but that's my thinking.

You're probably right. EM has some chops, in fact she not only is the best actress on Lost, but probably one the top 5 actors on the show all together. I'm really looking forward to seeing V, I hope they do a good job with it!

I hope all the main actors/actresses in Lost have a great career afterward.

that's the thing, caelitus, she was underused probably because she got the part on V. they knew they were gonna kill her off, so they downplayed her character and gave her this lovely "send off" by putting her in a 3-yr relationship with sawyer. but what they didn't realize was that it worked. the fans loved it. so, they could let her be dead like they probably planned, or they can use her to switch up and tweek the series ending.

The only way this logic makes sense is if Elizabeth had already been cast as the series lead on V in August of 2008, which she obviously didn't because the V project only got greenlit by ABC at the very end of January 2009.

TPTB underused Juliet because they stopped caring about her character with the end of season 3. From that moment on they only viewed her as triangle fodder and nothing else. So they threw her together with Jack for some Jack/Kate angst when they planned to temporarily hook up Kate with the Doc and now that they have to swing back to the Skate side of the triangle, they threw her together with Sawyer to delay the Sawyer/Kate union into season 6. Oh, and to make Sawyer worthy of Kate's character of course. The writers never had any intention to write a complete story for Juliet's character and give us proper resolution for any of the storylines (Ben, Sun, pregnancies, her family etc.) that made her who she was.

but you have to be fair. look at the people you just mentioned, ben and sun. both had what....three episodes to call their own. if that. ben had dead is dead and the first couple and sun had the first few as well. jin was left as a mute. even when he was on, he hardly spoke. sayid had three episodes. i hope they all got paid for full seasons and not just episodes! hurley wasn't even used much. the DI and sawyer and juliet really had the most airtime while jack and kate hung out in the background. for me, it was a rotten season. filler.

i think we are just going to have to disagree on this matter. i really think that she will show up in the beginning to let us know that she's alive. maybe she will be injured like cindebugg said and someone will have to tend to her injuries. then i don't think we'll see her til probably after halfway through the season.

now, if you like sawyer, and i know that you do, i do now even though most don't think so, do you really want him to grieve for juliet regardless of how much he loved her for one a few weeks? last season the time frame was what....3 weeks? so, i cannot see this next season being much longer. i think that sawyer's character would be questioned if he was ready to jump in the proverbial sack with someone else right away. and i don't mean just sex...fall in love all over again.

i think we are just going to have to disagree on this matter. i really think that she will show up in the beginning to let us know that she's alive. maybe she will be injured like cindebugg said and someone will have to tend to her injuries. then i don't think we'll see her til probably after halfway through the season.

I have an idea for how this could be done if it happens. I've seen some suggestions that one of the earlier episodes (1 - 3) in season six may give us a Juliet centric while she's seemingly dying. I hope that if it happens, it will be primarily "Others 101" centric, showing how Juliet did a Sarah Connor and turned from a seemingly shy and docile woman off-island into a martial arts knowing, sharp-shooting, latin speaking, manipulative and capable leader (or co-leader, which I think she fares best as) in just three years, and secondly some Dharma flashbacks (definitely secondly). But I expect that instead of just showing her slowly bleeding to death (which I doubt Disney would allow one of their subordinate networks to air at family-friendly time), she flashes out of the hatch like Desmond did and is found by the Smoke Monster which seems to be accompanied by some shadowy figure, maybe hooded, this time. We won't know what year it is or where the rest of her people are.

Smokey starts to probe her mind, triggering the flashbacks, as a way of determine if she is good enough to deserve being saved (and I certainly believe she is, and that Smokey can heal even extensive injuries), and the shadowy figure ask some questions inbetween. Then at the end of the episode, the shadowy figure reveals himself to be Mr. X in his original look, who then claims to be the guardian of Smokey rather than being Smokey itself. And finally he asks Smokey to render its verdict. I thought that it would be cool if Smokey inverts color to white at this, and then seemingly throws itself at Juliet in first person view, ending the episode with another white screen and cliffhanger for later episodes (like the 11th, 12th or 13th one). Just me hoping that a possible Juliet return would have some mythological impact instead of throwing her back into the devastating Triangle of Doom at once. And that she has a happy ending and gets off the island, alongside with at least Claire (Kate, being Kate, is of course 200% guaranteed to succeed with her mission, I have no doubt about that) of course.

intriguing, ben!

but....if she's dead, then sayid has to be dead. he was hanging by a thread and if he flashes with his injuries as well, in all reality, he's a goner.

but we know that what the island wants, it gets. if it wants someone alive, they live.
I don't believe this is correct. When Charlotte died, her body did not move with the next flash. So IMO, the sequence will be: Juliet falls, sustains massive internal injuries, explodes bomb, dies in explosion, her body remains in the 70s while shockwaves from the explosion trigger a course-correcting flash that sends Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Jin, Rose, Bernard, Vincent and Jack back to their correct time, which is where Sun, Ben and Frank are waiting.

IMO, Juliet's story seems to be done, because otherwise (as mentioned above) the producers wouldn't have given Liz Mitchell a heads-up in time to move on to another project as large as the 'V' series. It's not like she's working on some small part in another random show, or making a quick movie during the hiatus. EM has landed a lead role in a major production. That pretty much spells it out, IMO. Juliet is dead. We'll see her again, I have no doubt, but in a guest-starring role over one or two episodes, and not in her "live" form.

now, if you like sawyer, and i know that you do, i do now even though most don't think so, do you really want him to grieve for juliet regardless of how much he loved her for one a few weeks? last season the time frame was what....3 weeks? so, i cannot see this next season being much longer. i think that sawyer's character would be questioned if he was ready to jump in the proverbial sack with someone else right away. and i don't mean just sex...fall in love all over again.

Characters have never grieved properly on Lost. I give Sawyer one episode and then he'll probably be back to making goggle eyes at Kate again. Didn't we see the same thing with Ana-Lucia? Sure, it wasn't love but it only took Sawyer what? 3 days until he slept with Kate after he boinked Ana and she died? And then there's also always the chance for a further time jump, most likely at the very end of the show. It could be that they will keep Kate's choice a mistery until the last frame of the entire series and who would honestly blame Sawyer for a hook up with Katie 5 years after Juliet's demise? The only thing I am now hoping for is that they can get there without trashing Juliet's memory in the process. Lord knows they have already trashed everything else.


IMO, Juliet's story seems to be done,


Yup, I sadly have to agree. Not because they resolved it all, which they obviously didn't, but because of the obvious lack of interest in writing for her character over the last 2 seasons. To me the way the writers dropped the ball on Ben/Juliet in Dharma times and instead chose to focus on Ben/Sayid and Ben/Kate are obvious signs that Juliet as a character doesn't matter anymore. She was only a triangle prop in the eyes of the writers and now that they will enter their final season, they will go back to their original triangle and the prop aka Juliet isn't needed anymore. In some ways Elizabeth Mitchell can consider herself lucky that her character was killed off of Lost. I think there's no chance in hell that Scott Peters will trash her character for the sake of a love triangle on V, mainly because if it were to happen they would have to rewrite the whole show.

I give Sawyer one episode and then he'll probably be back to making goggle eyes at Kate
boy, that would be horrible IMO. look at the character assassination kate got when she flip flopped between the two men. she has haters up and down all over the place because of her choices. the actress has had questions as to her character's choices. so, i would not hope this upon sawyer ever.

and for all of our sakes, i certainly hope that whenever the triangle is completely done, that it gives the couple a little more than one episode to rejoice over it. to wait until the end of the series would be devastating and actually, idiotic.

I really hope Juliet is alive. But if she is dead then my take on Sawyer's attitude is that he won't turn to Kate AGAIN. At least, not romantically. I think that Kate will stand by him and help him deal with his grief.

and lostie, although this isn't the thread for me to blab about it, there was more to the finale than just juliet and sawyer. perhaps lives will be changed forever after the bomb detonated, and maybe things will go back to exactly how they were before the bomb went off. if sawyer is ready to move on, he has to move on to someone who is willing. seems to me his decision was made along with many others in the season finale.

boy, that would be horrible IMO. look at the character assassination kate got when she flip flopped between the two men. she has haters up and down all over the place because of her choices. the actress has had questions as to her character's choices. so, i would not hope this upon sawyer ever.

and for all of our sakes, i certainly hope that whenever the triangle is completely done, that it gives the couple a little more than one episode to rejoice over it. to wait until the end of the series would be devastating and actually, idiotic.
I fully agree.

I hope tptb don't underestimate the fans enough to think it's going to work for Sawyer to ever be making goggle eyes at Kate again after that final scene between him and Juliet. eww.

I hope tptb don't underestimate the fans enough to think it's going to work for Sawyer to ever be making goggle eyes at Kate again after that final scene between him and Juliet. eww.

That's the difference between a show like Prison Break and a show like Lost. A show like Prison Break depended so much on fan reaction and ratings that the fans managed to keep the Molly character (a new love interest for the series lead Michael) from ever making it to the TV-screen and brought back Sara Tancredi after the writers had beheaded her and stuffed her head in a box (one of the most disgusting and disrespectful moves in recent TV memory IMO). But Lost is different. They have their guaranteed end date, which means they don't have to cater to fan groups. The writers can do whatever they want whenever they want without being in danger of cancellation. Case in point the Kate character. She's the most despised character on the show and still got 2 centric episodes + a childhood flashback in the finale this year while Juliet, the most popular female character on the show, didn't get a centric and then was disposed of with a lame childhood flashback that was pure triangle fodder and didn't tell us anything about her. And then they dumped her in the nearest abyss like a worthless piece of trash.

They have their guaranteed end date, which means they don't have to cater to fan groups. The writers can do whatever they want whenever they want without being in danger of cancellation.


oh, i don't agree with this at all. i don't think that putting suliet into the finale is keeping the show from being cancelled. obviously not. but what i think is that the writers and producers of the show definitely want the viewers. they want the numbers. why on earth would they want to piss off their fans just because they know they have a definite 17 episodes in their final season? that would be just like you or i wanted our ship to be endgame only to have it not be. we will watch til the very end, but if they answer the triangle dilema right away, some fans are gonna be gone, right? will the writers and producers care if their numbers plummet? absolutely. that is why they won't end the triangle until the very last moment or at least near the end so that the ship can enjoy their endgame. no matter what, someone is going to be disappointed and the numbers will drop. every time a tv show is on or every week a new movie comes out, someone is looking at those numbers. they are looking to see if they are going to be nominated for emmys each season. so, of course they care about their viewers and their fans. do you think that something as stupid as juliet coming back as a ghost saying, "oh, sawyer, i love you, but i'm gone. you can be with the one you truly love. i won't haunt you 4-ever. be happy" would fly? would it be believable to the non-shippers that take up a major part of the fanbase? i'd rather see juliet dead in the first episode with sawyer cracking up.


Case in point the Kate character. She's the most despised character on the show and still got 2 centric episodes + a childhood flashback in the finale this year while Juliet, the most popular female character on the show, didn't get a centric and then was disposed of with a lame childhood flashback that was pure triangle fodder and didn't tell us anything about her. And then they dumped her in the nearest abyss like a worthless piece of trash. first off, the FB for juliet, IMO, will be saved for next year when we finally see her again. as far as kate is concerned, she is the most despised character because of her character assassination. but for some reason, most are still asking for her to be beaten down again. the finale showed her in a situation that would not be anything but a flip flop if she hooks up with sawyer next season if juliet is dead.

i don't know what the writers are going to do. i just feel that she will be alive. i think that her being alive gives the writers a lot of different directions for them to go with her. she can remember, not remember, choose sawyer, choose to go back to her sister and nephew or end up dying before the season is over. but to make her dead and give sawyer "permission" to move on is ridiculous. like sawyer needs permission.

Yup, I sadly have to agree. Not because they resolved it all, which they obviously didn't, but because of the obvious lack of interest in writing for her character over the last 2 seasons. To me the way the writers dropped the ball on Ben/Juliet in Dharma times and instead chose to focus on Ben/Sayid and Ben/Kate are obvious signs that Juliet as a character doesn't matter anymore. She was only a triangle prop in the eyes of the writers and now that they will enter their final season, they will go back to their original triangle and the prop aka Juliet isn't needed anymore. In some ways Elizabeth Mitchell can consider herself lucky that her character was killed off of Lost. I think there's no chance in hell that Scott Peters will trash her character for the sake of a love triangle on V, mainly because if it were to happen they would have to rewrite the whole show.

I think the biggest insult of all, supposing this will hold true, is that they didn't even give Juliet one single centric for a whole season, while Kate had TWO centrics (what was the first one even about? I can't remember because Kate's centrics are usually so boring). The only other main cast characters who have been treated this way are Libby (a far less prominent character than Juliet) and Charlotte. Supposing that Juliet is dead of course (which I'm still not convinced about). Oh, what a coincidence, all three just "happens" to be women. The lack of a centric is the biggest spit in the face of Elizabeth, Juliet and the fans of her I can imagine, even if she do survive. They even had Namaste being a overall non-centric episode and still didn't give a damn about making it a Juliet centric, when they could easily have compressed the whole 316/Hydra Island sidestory into other episodes to free up time.

The writers better have a damn good excuse for this or I don't think I can bring myself to watch season six at all because Juliet have been one of the only few characters I even care about anymore and one I think deserves a happy ending more than anyone, and even worse, the Lost makers would have played the viewers for fools and used this cliffhanger just to ensnare Juliet fans into watching the first episodes just to see Juliet die in the hope that they will keep watching anyway. If the writers do intend to have a Juliet centric as she lies dying thinking about her life, let's just hope it will be something like I suggested earlier in the previous page (with Smokey) and that it will be left open that she could return in maybe the 11th, 12th or 13th episode or so (I think EM should well be done with V by then, so by that stage it will mostly be a matter of how much story the writers are willing to give her). Besides, I doubt that Disney would even allow one of their subordinate networks to air an episode where a helpless woman bleeds to death alone and hopeless unless there is some kind of saving grace at the end.

Seriously, what a gender equal season the sixth one looks to become. On the male side we would have Jack, Sawyer, Mr. X/Fake-Locke, Jacob (I think he'll be back), Ben, Richard, Hurley, Miles, Jin, Frank Lapidus, Sayid, Charles Widmore, Desmond (?), ghost-Christian and Bram. And let's see what we'll get on the female side: Sun, Kate, Claire, Ilana and maybe Eloise Hawking. And Ilana and Claire might not even be regulars. Sun's storyline is all about being a mother and wife instead of an individual and reuniting with her husband, Kate will likely spend another season ping ponging between Sawyer and Jack and get everything she points at by the writers whether she deserves it or not, Claire is probably the most useless and individually helpless female this show has ever introduced and Illana is a slightly better Ana-Lucia rip-off who have been introduced too late for the audience to root for her. And Eloise Hawking is an old lady off-island who seemed to have failed in motivating Desmond to go back to the island (leaving it a possibility that he goes off to a happy ending after "The Variable"). Kate and Sun will in effect be the only major female characters in a sea of more prominent male characters pushing the story forwards. It's so obviously misogynistic that I don't know whether to laugh or cry. And I'm saying all of this as a male myself. Seriously, the Lost makers should have hired in Sigourney Weaver from the very beginning as a consultant in how to write strong and compentent female characters properly (read: Ellen Ripley).

On the other hand, Juliet is a martial arts knowing, sharp-shooting, carpentering, baby delivering, car fixing, Latin speaking, intelligent, manipulating and capable leader/co-leader with medical expertise and the only character who have been with both the Others, the Losties and the Dharma Initiative, regardless of whether she have a storyline and/or is a triangle prop. In the real world, if you find a woman like that, you stick to her. In Bizzaro Soviet Russia Planet Lost however, that woman will have to play second fiddle to a baby-stealing criminal who isn't even half of the woman Juliet is while Darlton are trying to tell us that is the most normal thing in the world. Please tell that I'm just dreaming... :puke: :rolleyes:

And what can Claire or Sun do in comparison? And while Kate is capable of being really *ss-kicking, she stop being that completely after "Enter 77" IMO. Where did the Kate who treatened to shot Aldo's knee off and later claims she wasn't kidding go? I'd love to see that Kate again. But after "Enter 77", Juliet has slowly been gaining ground during three seasons as the replacement for the occasionally bad*ss Kate that disappeared to somewhere unknown after Enter 77, leaving us with emo ping pong Kate. And while Juliet was indeed dumbed down from Namaste onwards, the damage was nowhere near as severe as Kate's gradual decline as "strong lady" after Enter 77, IMO. Kate's return in LaFleur has dumbed her down even further, because she has been continuisly bossed around by Sawyer and Juliet, following the plans made up by others and making a complete blundering fool of herself with Roger Linus. Juliet has kind of gradually filled the vacuum left by the disappearence of bad*ss Kate in the first half of season 3. It's just absurd to kill off a strong female of Juliet's caliber, whether she will have a storyline or not. And believe it or not, I do want Kate to get her spine back again as well (although the damage is already irreversible IMO, unlike with Juliet).

your whole posts answers it all. she is not done. they wouldn't end her in this finale. she is coming back for next season to close up what she's all about. that's why i think she will have another FB next season. they have stagnated a lot of the characters this past season. sun, sayid, hurley, ben, kate, jack and jin. even though jack and kate had some airtime, what was it all about anyway? filler, background. kate's first centric was about her giving up aaron. and then her childhood. that's really it. you can hate kate for the fact that she's been involved with the ridiculous triangle. either men have not been criticized whatsoever regarding the triangle.

juliet will be back next season, and i'd like to see the background she had on the island, how she became the other. but i doubt any of that will be addressed. it will all be about the triangle/quad.

I hope tptb don't underestimate the fans enough to think it's going to work for Sawyer to ever be making goggle eyes at Kate again after that final scene between him and Juliet. eww.

I don't believe it has anything to do with fan estimation. And IMO, they'll make it work because (a majority of) the fans already know that this is their intent. Kate was the reason Juliet broke off from Sawyer. She saw the writing on the wall from the moment she learned the O3 were back on the Island. She told Sawyer the way it was with her "I saw you look at her" comment, and Sawyer A) didn't deny it, B) didn't try to defend it and C) didn't go after her when she walked away.

she is not done. they wouldn't end her in this finale.
Of course they would. They ended Shannon when they were finished with her, and I'm sure there was plenty about her that we didn't know...they could have done much more with her character. Same with Boone. Same with Ana Lucia, Libby...all the characters that have been killed off. We have plenty of unanswered questions that we'll never know. For example: who was Libby's ex, and what's with the boat named for her...'The Elizabeth'? Why did she introduce herself to Desmond as Elizabeth? Who is David? Hell, who is Libby, for that matter? How was she in the same mental ward with Hurley?
juliet will be back next season, and i'd like to see the background she had on the island, how she became the other. but i doubt any of that will be addressed. it will all be about the triangle/quad.
Juliet's larger storylines were dropped and never picked back up in detail. She was demoted to triangle fodder this season, and turned into a weak, wibbly female. She knew, in the end, that Sawyer did love her and was loyal to her ("you'd stay with me forever if I let you"), but that ultimately, his heart instinctively belongs to Kate. So in your opinion, were they to bring her back next season, what more could they do with her?

I think Juliet was a badly misused character, but I'm very pleased with the send-off they gave her. It rivaled Charlie's, in terms of emotion and sacrifice, and it did justice to what the character once was, and might have been.

i guess opinions just have to be weighed on whether you want the character alive or not.

i guess opinions just have to be weighed on whether you want the character alive or not.

Believe me, I'd love to have her alive, and have her returned to us as the Juliet I fell in love with in S3. She, Sawyer, Sayid and Desmond are/were my only reasons to continue watching Lost. With her gone, I'm left with no female characters that I care too much about, Sawyer (who has somehow misplaced his cojones), Desmond (who lays in bed and bleeds and wibbles to Penny) and Sayid (who continues to kick all levels of :censored:)

But with the disrespect that the writers gave her...I suppose it's better off that she's gone. If you had told me back in S3: "Juliet is gonna be great this season and she & Jack are gonna start a romance, but she's going to bow out because of Jack's fascination with Kate, and then later she's going to be with Sawyer but she's going to bow out of that too because of Sawyer's fascination with Kate and then she's gonna die pointlessly by being dragged down a well", I'd have laughed in your face and said "NO WAY will the writers be that sloppy/stupid/pathetic/disrespectful to such an incredible character!!"

But...look what happened. These writers can't suprise me anymore, and I'm not invested enough any longer to be disappointed in them. I just wish that Juliet had been dealt a better hand. :frown:

the reason she was with jack was only because ben planned it that way. he had her be the first one he saw after he was kidnapped, made her be friendly with him, made him trust her and then ultimately made her infiltrate the beach. being away from ben around normal people made her come to her senses and join the losties. IF she was truly in love with jack, well then i guess she got what was coming to her since she lied her way into his trust. there was no chemistry between her and jack and the writers used her to keep him away from kate.

she looked more like herself in because you left all the way up to the beginning of lafleur. even tempting us with tidbits of other information. they didnt expect her and sawyer to get the fan base that it did. i think that when they were happy together, they had a lot of chemistry. maybe it was because sawyer seemed so darn happy to be in DI with no problems whatsoever. i don't know what they plan to do with her next season. i would prefer her to have no memory and go back to her other roots, get her memories back and reunite with sawyer.

I think the biggest insult of all, supposing this will hold true, is that they didn't even give Juliet one single centric for a whole season, while Kate had TWO centrics (what was the first one even about? I can't remember because Kate's centrics are usually so boring). The only other main cast characters who have been treated this way are Libby (a far less prominent character than Juliet) and Charlotte. Supposing that Juliet is dead of course (which I'm still not convinced about). Oh, what a coincidence, all three just "happens" to be women. The lack of a centric is the biggest spit in the face of Elizabeth, Juliet and the fans of her I can imagine, even if she do survive. They even had Namaste being a overall non-centric episode and still didn't give a damn about making it a Juliet centric, when they could easily have compressed the whole 316/Hydra Island sidestory into other episodes to free up time.

First of all I have to correct you somewhat. Charlotte was never a series regular on Lost. They did list Rebecca Mader among the regulars in the opening credits, but she was only contracted as a guest star. You'll see this if you take a look at some of Lost's press releases. Anyways, the lack of a main character status was the reason why she got killed off without a centric episode. Like Naomi, Mikhail, Keamy etc.

And the second correction is that not only was Namaste a non-centric episode, so was Follow The Leader (episode 15). As it stands the writers had to divide 17 episodes among 12 regulars and they decided to give Kate 2 centrics; Jack, Sun, Jin, Ben, Locke, Sayid, Miles, Daniel, Desmond, Sawyer got one each and when they had to make the choice between writing a Juliet episode or a non-centric episode, they gladly chose the latter. Twice. What does that tell us? In my opinion it tells us that the writers had no interest in writing for her character anymore and especially if you consider that her season 4 centric The Other Woman wasn't a real Juliet-centric either. It was all about Ben, but told from Juliet's point of view. In that episode we found out that Ben was romantically obsessed with her and that he would do anything (even letting one of the most worthy members of his community get killed) to get what he wanted. They further used the episode to showcase how brilliant he was when he conned himself out of his prisoner situation in Dharmaville. And what did we learn about Juliet? As far as I know the only things we found out were that she had a therapist and Goodwin was married, and the latter obviously didn't have all that much to do with her. It was a huge load of crock.

So yeah, looks like 2 series regulars went out without a centric episode and both turned out to be women. I don't think that's a coincidence, just like I also don't think it was a coincidence that when Darlton introduced the freighties they always had the intention to kill off both Naomi and Charlotte within the first 8 episodes of their introduction.

The writers better have a damn good excuse for this or I don't think I can bring myself to watch season six at all because Juliet have been one of the only few characters I even care about anymore and one I think deserves a happy ending more than anyone, and even worse, the Lost makers would have played the viewers for fools and used this cliffhanger just to ensnare Juliet fans into watching the first episodes just to see Juliet die in the hope that they will keep watching anyway. If the writers do intend to have a Juliet centric as she lies dying thinking about her life, let's just hope it will be something like I suggested earlier in the previous page (with Smokey) and that it will be left open that she could return in maybe the 11th, 12th or 13th episode or so (I think EM should well be done with V by then, so by that stage it will mostly be a matter of how much story the writers are willing to give her). Besides, I doubt that Disney would even allow one of their subordinate networks to air an episode where a helpless woman bleeds to death alone and hopeless unless there is some kind of saving grace at the end.

What angers me the most about this possible Juliet death is that it has ruled out any chance that EM will get the obligatory show departure press tour, especially because there are certain rumors about her alleged dismissal out there that I would have loved to have addressed.

There's only 1 possible Juliet-centric episode I can see happening in season 6 and that is an episode in which some of the other characters (mainly Ben, Sun, Sawyer, Kate, Jack) come to terms with Juliet's demise in different ways and they all remember one specific moment they had with her on the island. And I find even that unlikely because I think the writers don't care enough about her character to go there anyway and they have completely dropped the ball on most of those relationships of hers.

And Ilana and Claire might not even be regulars.

Claire will be back as a series regular. I take it as a sign that she will come back in the flesh.

On the other hand, Juliet is a martial arts knowing, sharp-shooting, carpentering, baby delivering, car fixing, Latin speaking, intelligent, manipulating and capable leader/co-leader with medical expertise and the only character who have been with both the Others, the Losties and the Dharma Initiative, regardless of whether she have a storyline and/or is a triangle prop. In the real world, if you find a woman like that, you stick to her. In Bizzaro Soviet Russia Planet Lost however, that woman will have to play second fiddle to a baby-stealing criminal who isn't even half of the woman Juliet is while Darlton are trying to tell us that is the most normal thing in the world. Please tell that I'm just dreaming... :puke: :rolleyes:

I take it to mean you don't watch Smallville. It's the same issue on that show. Chloe, who is an incredibly loyal, independent, ambitious, intelligent, caring and selfless character has been playing second fiddle to murderous, hypocritical, lying, manipulative and selfish Lana Lang for more than 7 years.

If you want to see EM's character be treated correctly you should watch V. There's no way that the show will suddenly drop all of her storylines and turn her into a triangle plot point over there because if Erica Evans were to give up on her mission the aliens would take over the world and that will never happen.

oh, i don't agree with this at all. i don't think that putting suliet into the finale is keeping the show from being cancelled. obviously not. but what i think is that the writers and producers of the show definitely want the viewers. they want the numbers. why on earth would they want to piss off their fans just because they know they have a definite 17 episodes in their final season? that would be just like you or i wanted our ship to be endgame only to have it not be. we will watch til the very end, but if they answer the triangle dilema right away, some fans are gonna be gone, right? will the writers and producers care if their numbers plummet? absolutely. that is why they won't end the triangle until the very last moment or at least near the end so that the ship can enjoy their endgame. no matter what, someone is going to be disappointed and the numbers will drop. every time a tv show is on or every week a new movie comes out, someone is looking at those numbers. they are looking to see if they are going to be nominated for emmys each season. so, of course they care about their viewers and their fans. do you think that something as stupid as juliet coming back as a ghost saying, "oh, sawyer, i love you, but i'm gone. you can be with the one you truly love. i won't haunt you 4-ever. be happy" would fly? would it be believable to the non-shippers that take up a major part of the fanbase? i'd rather see juliet dead in the first episode with sawyer cracking up.

As if anyone would still drop out on the show for as silly reasons as their ship not working out at this late stage in the game. :rolleyes: Lost has it's hardcore fanbase now (8 million viewers) that will keep watching no matter what. And if the writers actually cared about what the fans wanted Charlie would still be alive and the triangle would long be over because the whole fandom is sick and tired of it. Darlton have a vision and completely free reign because of their set end date. They can do whatever they want and have to please no one. If you care about the things they care about (Kate's choice, Jack's destiny, Sawyer's Han Solo-like journey, Ben etc.) you can consider yourself lucky. But if you want to see Juliet solve the pregnancy problem and get revenge on Ben or for the show to properly explain what the hell was up with Walt, what the Raised By Another prophesy was all about or why Aaron had to be baptized you are crap out of luck.

first off, the FB for juliet, IMO, will be saved for next year when we finally see her again. as far as kate is concerned, she is the most despised character because of her character assassination. but for some reason, most are still asking for her to be beaten down again. the finale showed her in a situation that would not be anything but a flip flop if she hooks up with sawyer next season if juliet is dead.

Nope. Not only because of that. People hate Kate for various reasons. They hate her for the triangle and her constant flip flopping. They hate her because she never has to bear the consequences for her actions (e.g. getting off scots-free at her trial). They hate her because she gets everything she wants (she wants Jack she gets Jack, she wants Sawyer she gets Sawyer etc.). They hate her because other female characters get sacrificed at her triangle altar (Juliet, Ana-Lucia) and written out of the show for her benefit (Kate needs to play mommy to Aaron ---> Bye Bye Claire, Kate needs to have the free choice in season 6 ---> Bye Bye Juliet). People hate Kate because other characters get dragged down so that the audience feels sorry for her and views her as the victim (e.g. meanie Sawyer broke Kate's heart when he jumped from the chopper out of cowardize) only that it never works. There are lots of reasons for people to hate Kate. The character assassination is the smallest problem. But Darlton don't get it. They keep on pushing and pushing it. It feels as if they are living in a bizarro world where everyone bowes down to Kate's awesomeness.

she is coming back for next season to close up what she's all about.

And what would that be? The writers trashed her connection to Ben when they completely ignored the potential of the young Ben in Dharma storyline and instead chose to focus on young Ben/Sayid and the combination of young Ben/Kate/Roger Linus. Not to mention that Ben hasn't done as much as mention Juliet again since TTLG in season 3 and Juliet has failed to mention adult Ben since TOW in season 4. The relationship between Juliet and Sun has become another dropped plot point. Neither character did as much as give the other a single thought in over a year. The pregnancies? Apparently Juliet went into retirement. So I don't see any potential for that one anymore either. They will most likely pull some crazy mythical crap out of their behinds that will solve it and Juliet's only connection to this mythology plot point will be that she was too dumb to fix it or do so much as to find out the cause for it. And don't even get me started on Rachel and Julian.The childhood flashback was the perfect opportunity to bring the storyline back in play, but instead they turned the scene into triangle fodder and essentially told us "Skate is fated. Suliet is not". I'm actually surprised that the writers still remembered that Juliet once had a sister she was desperate to return to, but little Rachel's appearance was sadly only a cheap gimmick.

I don't believe it has anything to do with fan estimation. And IMO, they'll make it work because (a majority of) the fans already know that this is their intent. Kate was the reason Juliet broke off from Sawyer. She saw the writing on the wall from the moment she learned the O3 were back on the Island. She told Sawyer the way it was with her "I saw you look at her" comment, and Sawyer A) didn't deny it, B) didn't try to defend it and C) didn't go after her when she walked away.


Well, IMHO, judging by every poll that's been out there on the net since Suliet's introduction, a "majority" of fans seem to want Suliet more than any other ship on the show. And Doc Jensen (in his interview with Darlton) pointed out they got the most overwhelmingly positive feedback for the episode "LaFleur" - the very episode that introduced Suliet.

And in answer to your points A) Juliet stopped him from saying anything after she brought up the "I saw you look at her", so he B) just cut right to the chase saying he didn't care who he looked at, and assured her that he was with her C) did actually go after her when she walked away (not initially but you see him in their next scene walking behind Juliet when Jack is walking away with the bomb) and then he resolutely stands beside her (http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5356/theincident1127.jpg) after that and consults her before making a decision about Jack. Which, IMHO, is significant because Juliet was worried that Sawyer would only stay with her "if [she] let him" - but now, even though she's trying to not let him, he remains with her.

It's all up to everyone's different interpretation, obviously. *shrugs* But I think Juliet realized she was wrong about thinking her and Sawyer weren't meant to be together (Sawyer sticking with her, asking her opinion, the 'look' before the bomb, him trying to save her, etc).... too late unfortunately because of the magnetic chains of death. But I'm hopeful it'll all get sorted out next year ;)


Of course they would. They ended Shannon when they were finished with her, and I'm sure there was plenty about her that we didn't know...they could have done much more with her character. Same with Boone. Same with Ana Lucia, Libby...all the characters that have been killed off. We have plenty of unanswered questions that we'll never know. For example: who was Libby's ex, and what's with the boat named for her...'The Elizabeth'? Why did she introduce herself to Desmond as Elizabeth? Who is David? Hell, who is Libby, for that matter? How was she in the same mental ward with Hurley?

I would argue Juliet is in a completely different category than Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, and Ana-Lucia. Juliet's been around for three years, she's the only person who's been with the Others, Dharma Initiative, and the Losties, she's a fertility specialist on an island that had a big honkin statue of the Egyptian god of fertility, pregnancy, and childbirth, etc etc.

Plus, there were some extenuating circumstances for some of the 'exits' those characters had - that had more to do with what was going on in the real world.. not the show :undecide:. And Darlton has said outright that they had offered the actress who played Libby opportunities to come back - but she has declined. They can only do some much!


Juliet's larger storylines were dropped and never picked back up in detail. She was demoted to triangle fodder this season, and turned into a weak, wibbly female.


I would totally argue against the idea that Juliet was just a "weak, wibbly, female" this year! We saw a side of her that we've never really seen before - her actually being happy & in love. When she needed to be her kick-butt self, she (as always) brought it.
That being said, she's also a human character with insecurities - one of which the writer's highlighted in the finale. Her parents divorce and what her mother said, etc. (plus all the other crap she's had to go through that we've seen previously). It's one of the reasons I like her. She's very three dimensional :)

her actually being happy & in love


Yes. For the awesome amount of 10 minutes and then from Namaste onwards all she did was whine and worry that her relationship with Sawyer was over now that Kate was back. Very multi-dimensional indeed. And to think that this might have been her final arc on the show and this is how she went out. What a waste of a great character and actress.

When she needed to be her kick-butt self, she (as always) brought it.


Yes, she was kick-butt in the first half of the season when she was still a free agent and not Sawyer's girlfriend. Then she went on a downward spiral from Namaste onwards and in the finale we finally got another flash of pre-LaFleur Juliet again, but then the writers dumped all over it when they had her decide to blow up the entire island and all the people on it because Sawyer looked at Kate. Boy that one still hurts. I really need to get it out of my memory.

And Darlton has said outright that they had offered the actress who played Libby opportunities to come back - but she has declined.

That is a lie and a very cowardly move by Darlton IMO. Cynthia Watros did come back and appeared in Meet Kevin Johnson, but all the writers had her do was carry towels and say 2 lines.

the 'look' before the bomb,

Sawyer looked at Juliet before the bomb explosion because he knew it would matter to her. It was a conscious decision on his part. But when he looked at Kate it was an instinctive reaction. He wasn't thinking. That showed where his heart stands and what (or better yet who) it really wants.


him trying to save her


What did people expect Sawyer to do? Did they expect him to turn around and say "Sayonara Juliet." and let her fall down the hole to her death? Sawyer has always risked his life to save people. Way back in season 1 he nearly got himself killed in an attempt to save Walt. That doesn't mean that Juliet is the love of his life. She can't be on a show which features a series long love triangle that will come down to the female lead's choice. Sawyer did love Juliet and would have sacrificed his own happiness for her, but the heart wants what it wants and she would have eventually lost him anyway. Juliet recognized this when she called him out on it during their break up.


i guess opinions just have to be weighed on whether you want the character alive or not.


Sure. Anyone who isn't on the "Juliet will definitely be back alive next season" train after the writers have trashed every single thing that was slightly meaningful about the character before they had her get dragged down an 80 feet deep shaft by a bundle of chains, then had tons of debris rain upon her and capped it off with an atomic bomb blowing up in her face are mean Skaters who hate Juliet and want to see her dead because they want their ship to happen.:rolleyes:

As if anyone would still drop out on the show for as silly reasons as their ship not working out at this late stage in the game. :rolleyes: Lost has it's hardcore fanbase now (8 million viewers) that will keep watching no matter what.

If she really is dead, then I'm just as disgusted by the thought of her not having a centric closure episode as I am with the fact that they even bothered to bring Sawyer and Juliet together in the first place. I jumped on the S/J bandwagon as a former non-shipper because it seemed like the healthiest of the quadrangle permutations and hopefully provided a blockage to a thing I've hated ever since season 1, namely the Kate-centered Triangle of Doom. But if they were just going to kill her off, it's just downright cruel to create a new relationship that attracts tons of new followers, including non-shippers like me and former disillusioned Skaters, only to dissolve it like an oasis mirage in the desert. If she truly is dead and won't come back alive, then it really sickens me how they even bothered with setting up false hope in a new ship fanbase only to take that hope from them so soon. It's downright cruel against Juliet fans and Suliet fans in particular (and non-Suliet shipping Juliet fans). It almost feels to me that they owe the new fanbase they have created an "epic reunion" for pulling this cruel stunt of (possibly) false hope on them. I want Juliet to have decent closure for her story line(s) alive, and maybe she and Sawyer can have their epic reunion (I ultimately just want a happy ending for as many characters as possible), but it mustn't inflict upon her chances of getting off the island in the end. They should honestly have had the decency of never having created the ship in the first place if Juliet really isn't coming back.

Nope. Not only because of that. People hate Kate for various reasons. They hate her for the triangle and her constant flip flopping. They hate her because she never has to bear the consequences for her actions (e.g. getting off scots-free at her trial). They hate her because she gets everything she wants (she wants Jack she gets Jack, she wants Sawyer she gets Sawyer etc.). They hate her because other female characters get sacrificed at her triangle altar (Juliet, Ana-Lucia) and written out of the show for her benefit (Kate needs to play mommy to Aaron ---> Bye Bye Claire, Kate needs to have the free choice in season 6 ---> Bye Bye Juliet). People hate Kate because other characters get dragged down so that the audience feels sorry for her and views her as the victim (e.g. meanie Sawyer broke Kate's heart when he jumped from the chopper out of cowardize) only that it never works. There are lots of reasons for people to hate Kate. The character assassination is the smallest problem. But Darlton don't get it. They keep on pushing and pushing it. It feels as if they are living in a bizarro world where everyone bowes down to Kate's awesomeness.Even Evangeline Lilly herself has expressed concern (in season five promo interviews) over what the whole triangle bouncing story is doing to the fan image of her character. But Darlton just won't listen. They're like a couple of stubborn donkeys who just can't let it go. Once again, Sigourney Weaver should have been hired early on as a consulant in how to write strong female characters properly. Then poor Evie wouldn't have to complain to deaf ears about how the triangle is destroying her character and Kate would still be treatening to shoot people's knee's off, Juliet would have a got a season five "Others 101" centric and Sun would do more than keep asking "whezz mah Jin?" (they could at least show Sun displaying some taekwondo skills, especially since Yunjin Kim actually do that in real life). And now we're having Claire back, the most useless female character the show has ever produced. Ilana might have been awesome if she was introduced a lot earlier. Despite being a guy myself, it does strike me how bad the writers are in writing female characters. Juliet is their best female so far, and now she won't be a regular and might not even be alive. She'd better damn be :mad:.

Yes. For the awesome amount of 10 minutes and then from Namaste onwards all she did was whine and worry that her relationship with Sawyer was over now that Kate was back. Very multi-dimensional indeed. And to think that this might have been her final arc on the show and this is how she went out. What a waste of a great character and actress.


Again I disagree. She had smaller more 'passive' kick-butt moments because there wasn't any real need to up until the finale.(What was she suppose to do? Take someone out with a wrench in the Motor Pool just to liven things up a bit?) For example, I really liked her "Well. Here we go." line. It was almost unsettlingly calm - which EM does really, really well (it sort of harkens back to beginning of Season 3 Juliet). She knew exactly what was coming.
And she wanted to go with Kate to help deliver little Ben. She was willing to give up everything right then and there to help the kid, but Kate refused to let her go.

As for her worrying ...
She worried if the O4 showing up meant that their time of 'playing house' in Dharmaville was over. Sawyer said it wasn't and he had everything under control. Well, it turns out Juliet's fears were actually spot on - the O4 turning up did mark the beginning of the end for their time in Dharmaville.

Remember, she was actually worried about how to tell Kate about her and Sawyer without it coming off the wrong way. She also sent Sawyer out to help Kate with little Ben - by himself. Kate, herself, wasn't initially the problem. Juliet was just worried about all of them and their effect on her, Sawyer, Jin, and Miles' lives there.

The only time we really saw her get that worry about her and Sawyer's relationship was after he called Kate "Freckles". And we have to remember from that moment - until the end of the season was ... what? a couple hours at most? The last few episodes all happened within that time frame. And there was a LOT going on.


That is a lie and a very cowardly move by Darlton IMO. Cynthia Watros did come back and appeared in Meet Kevin Johnson, but all the writers had her do was carry towels and say 2 lines.

Just wondering - is that your opinion or do you have a quote from Cynthia Watros on the matter? I'm actually curious about it. I can't see that Darlton would flat out lie about something like that... but...?


Sawyer looked at Juliet before the bomb explosion because he knew it would matter to her. It was a conscious decision on his part. But when he looked at Kate it was an instinctive reaction. He wasn't thinking. That showed where his heart stands and what (or better yet who) it really wants.

lol well I disgaree again, but that's your opinion. Your entitled to yours. I'm entitled to mine.

She can't be on a show which features a series long love triangle that will come down to the female lead's choice. Sawyer did love Juliet and would have sacrificed his own happiness for her, but the heart wants what it wants and she would have eventually lost him anyway. Juliet recognized this when she called him out on it during their break up.

Again. Yuck to it all being down to just "Kate's choice". There are three individual, independent, adults in this 'triangle' and I'd like to think that Jack and Sawyer aren't just sitting back waiting to see who Kate finally chooses. ugh.
And if it's all a matter of destiny anyway... you wonder who much 'choice' there will be? lol. I've seen that quote a lot "the heart want what the heart wants" - so is there even a choice? hmmmm. I mean if we go that way... it really depends on who Kate's heart really wants. And the writers could do almost anything with that, lol



Sure. Anyone who isn't on the "Juliet will definitely be back alive next season" train after the writers have trashed every single thing that was slightly meaningful about the character before they had her get dragged down an 80 feet deep shaft by a bundle of chains, then had tons of debris rain upon her and capped it off with an atomic bomb blowing up in her face are mean Skaters who hate Juliet and want to see her dead because they want their ship to happen.:rolleyes:

Well, because you and others think that Juliet got such a crappy 'ending' to her character - hopefully she'll be back alive and kicking butt again (in whatever capacity EM can!) :) At least we're all in agreement on that! Here's hoping Juliet's "demise", isn't!

But if they were just going to kill her off, it's just downright cruel to create a new relationship that attracts tons of new followers, including non-shippers like me and former disillusioned Skaters, only to dissolve it like an oasis mirage in the desert. If she truly is dead and won't come back alive, then it really sickens me how they even bothered with setting up false hope in a new ship fanbase only to take that hope from them so soon.

I think what it comes down to is that nobody associated with the show expected the audience to jump on the Suliet bandwagon. Quite the contrary. They expected the audience to hate it and if they expected the audience to hate it, they also expected the audience to root for Sawyer to get rid of Juliet in one way or another in order to get back together with his one true love Kate and especially after WHH and if they expected the audience to root for Juliet to disappear they also figured that people wouldn't be all that torn up about Juliet getting killed off. It's a vicious circle.

It's downright cruel against Juliet fans and Suliet fans in particular (and non-Suliet shipping Juliet fans). It almost feels to me that they owe the new fanbase they have created an "epic reunion" for pulling this cruel stunt of (possibly) false hope on them.

Doesn't the same apply to lots of other fanbases on the show? The writers and producers have been giving Jaters and Skaters hope for 5 years and one of those 2 groups will come out empty-handed in the end.

Personally I have the feeling that the Lost finale will be immensely unsatisfying and leave lots of people pissed off. In fact the show has already pissed off quite a lot of it's viewers.

I want Juliet to have decent closure for her story line(s) alive, and maybe she and Sawyer can have their epic reunion (I ultimately just want a happy ending for as many characters as possible), but it mustn't inflict upon her chances of getting off the island in the end.

I want for Juliet to get off the island too. Mostly because the writers have dangled this carrot in front of her eyes so many times only to snatch it away every single time. She deserves better than to die a gruesome and lonely death at the bottom of a ditch.

They should honestly have had the decency of never having created the ship in the first place if Juliet really isn't coming back.

In light of the way the writers treat their female characters on the show I wouldn't be shocked if they hooked Juliet up with Sawyer because they knew they were going to kill her off at the end of the season and saw this as their last chance to use up her potential as female love interest. That's all women are good for on Lost. Serve as props in the stories of the males, give birth to babies and die.

Juliet would have a got a season five "Others 101" centric

I've been waiting for this episode ever since the first time I watched Not In Portland. What can I say? 3 years later and I'm still waiting for it to happen.


Just wondering - is that your opinion or do you have a quote from Cynthia Watros on the matter? I'm actually curious about it. I can't see that Darlton would flat out lie about something like that... but...?


Cynthia Watros did come back, didn't she? It's not her fault that the writers did nothing with her appearance in MKJ.

She worried if the O4 showing up meant that their time of 'playing house' in Dharmaville was over. Sawyer said it wasn't and he had everything under control. Well, it turns out Juliet's fears were actually spot on - the O4 turning up did mark the beginning of the end for their time in Dharmaville.

According to the episode recap Juliet was mostly thinking of her relationship with Sawyer there. That's why I also view several other moments (Juliet looking like she got kicked in the gut when Sawyer tells her that Jack, Kate, Hurley are back on the island, Juliet whining that the time wasn't right for her to have a baby with her Jim, Juliet whining to Jack that he was ruining her perfect little Dharma life etc) in the same light.

But I give you the Ben plot in Whatever Happened Happened. It was pretty much the only episode that was bearable to watch for a non-Suliet shipping Juliet fan in the second half of the season.


The only time we really saw her get that worry about her and Sawyer's relationship was after he called Kate "Freckles". And we have to remember from that moment - until the end of the season was ... what? a couple hours at most? The last few episodes all happened within that time frame. And there was a LOT going on.


And when Kate did as much as to board the submarine Juliet looked like she was about to crap herself in fear. And then she topped it off with her decision to blow up the entire island because of a look.


Again. Yuck to it all being down to just "Kate's choice". There are three individual, independent, adults in this 'triangle' and I'd like to think that Jack and Sawyer aren't just sitting back waiting to see who Kate finally chooses. ugh.


Maybe you should go and tell Darlton this. But this is how the show is written. Kate = Jack and Sawyer's one true love who gets to pick the guys willy nilly. Love triangle = Kate's series long storyline through which she sorts out her daddy issues. Juliet and Ana-Lucia = Love triangle props and Kate place holders. Darlton even called Juliet the Ross Perrot of the love triangle once. She and Ana are always destined to lose in a love triangle with Kate and that's why I don't get invested in any of Juliet's "romances" on the show. In the long run they are always for Kate's benefit and Juliet gets absolutely nothing out of it except for her storyline trashed and a degradation to other woman/second choice status. It surprises me that so many people still don't realize it. It's no different to Desperate Housewives where Susan is the one and characters like Edie and Kathryn always get thrown under the triangle bus for her sake. Or Smallville where Lana was every man's one true love and Chloe was the sucker who always lost out to her. It's the exact same dynamic. When it comes to female characters in love triangles the supporting character never wins against the lead. Unless she's iconic and it's already set in stone because of comic book continuity. And even that is not accurate because there hasn't been an actual Chloe/Clark/Lois love triangle yet.

BenDeRoy, I just have to say I love your posts here. Your analysis of the pathetic handling of female characters is spot on; I couldn't have expressed it better.

And coming from a male viewer, it's even more heartening to find that the ridiculous treatment of women on LOST doesn't just irk us chicks, either! :)

Eowyn, I agree with everything you said in your last post. JMO, naturally!

I do think the network cares about 'backsides on seats' and is aware of the fan reaction to Darltons possible disposal of Juliet in the finale. Carlton Cuse has come out and said that although the ending is planned out, they've left room for character development and I think he was talking about Sawyer and Juliets' unlikely romance working brilliantly and being embraced by fans.
I can understand non Suliet fans of Juliet feeling short changed because most of this season, Juliet was all about her wanting to hold on to this happy life she and James had built and her other story lines were dropped.But I think her no longer being a regular could have had less to do with Darlton no longer wanting EM and more to do with abc wanting to keep her beyond 2010 and getting her to audition for a new show with prospects. Darlton have said they don't force their regulars to stay if they want to move on. They've also worked around the schedule of guest stars who are working with other shows and even in other countries, so there's hope as far as I'm concerned.

The writers have always said that the love triangle (Jack/Kate/Sawyer) will continue until the very end of the show. Not the love quadrangle (Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Juliet). That should give people a very good idea of Juliet's chances at survival here and especially after the writers have trashed and ignored everything (Ben, pregnancies, Sun, her family) that was once meaningful about her character and instead turned her into a love triangle prop. She sadly won't be needed anymore from here on in.

That's a depressing thought, not just the end of Juliet, but the continuation of the Triangle From Hell. Ugh!!!! Of all the aspects of LOST, the contrived romantic conflict is what I truly can't stand, and to think we'll be saddled with more of the same in the last season?

Just, no! (I know it will likely happen that way, sadly).

I do think the network cares about 'backsides on seats' and is aware of the fan reaction to Darltons possible disposal of Juliet in the finale. Carlton Cuse has come out and said that although the ending is planned out, they've left room for character development and I think he was talking about Sawyer and Juliets' unlikely romance working brilliantly and being embraced by fans.
I can understand non Suliet fans of Juliet feeling short changed because most of this season, Juliet was all about her wanting to hold on to this happy life she and James had built and her other story lines were dropped.But I think her no longer being a regular could have had less to do with Darlton no longer wanting EM and more to do with abc wanting to keep her beyond 2010 and getting her to audition for a new show with prospects. Darlton have said they don't force their regulars to stay if they want to move on. They've also worked around the schedule of guest stars who are working with other shows and even in other countries, so there's hope as far as I'm concerned.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. EM wouldn't even have been considered for V unless Darlton were planning to write her off the show. That's just how things work. Networks don't go poaching actors from their own successful shows (spin-offs being the only exception) and if EM had not already been freed up from her LOST contract, they would have cast someone else in her role in V.

so if they were going to end her time on lost and she auditioned and got the part on V, then why is she coming back next season? my assumption would be because she was such a huge fan favorite like dom was, and they decided to change up the final season. i know that they pretty much have the ending in their minds, but i doubt that the full scripts are written and finalized at this moment. anything can happen. the theories of her being dead and a ghost, alive and no memory or with memory, any of these theories could be in the works. nothing is in stone yet.

and evanesco, i'm thinking that the triangle is pretty much ended. that's my opinion, but i'm sure others are speculating that it's not. if they've said that it will go up until the end, and when they said that that they didn't mention the quadrangle, again, it wasn't yesterday that they said it, it was a while ago. like i said above, things change.

so if they were going to end her time on lost and she auditioned and got the part on V, then why is she coming back next season?

Please, which former series regular did not come back on Lost after they've been killed off? Except for Eko they've all come back at one point or another. And of course she will be back. She was featured in the cliffhanger. They need her to resolve it.


my assumption would be because she was such a huge fan favorite like dom was, and they decided to change up the final season.


And did they let Charlie survive? No, they didn't. "Save the hobbit. Save the world." campaign be damned.

hamburg, charlie was suppose to be dead when he was hung from the tree. that was halfway through season one and he last until the season 3 finale. for me, that's a long time. dom was happy to leave then because he was having no storyline. he said pick it up or i'm outta here. so they gave him the story he was worthy of and he was thrilled. said so on kimmel.


As if anyone would still drop out on the show for as silly reasons as their ship not working out at this late stage in the game
i know a lot of people that don't watch the show anymore, whether it's because it's too hard to follow or because the triangle is ridiculous. i've read posts from both ships that are "done" whenever something bad happens with their couple. i've also seen people not post for weeks and come back to say they haven't even finished watching the season. so, whether it's one fan or 1,000 fans, it does happen.

my quote:so if they were going to end her time on lost and she auditioned and got the part on V, then why is she coming back next season?
hamburg wrote:

Please, which former series regular did not come back on Lost after they've been killed off?

Dezdemona wrote:

EM wouldn't even have been considered for V unless Darlton were planning to write her off the show. That's just how things work. Networks don't go poaching actors from their own successful shows (spin-offs being the only exception) and if EM had not already been freed up from her LOST contract, they would have cast someone else in her role in V.

i was responding to dez's quote. sorry i didn't explain better. i think that when she auditioned for V that they had no plans to bring her back for the next season. when suliet became a fan fav, they decided to have her back but not as a series regular. i think there is a huge possibility for her to return and finish up her story. i've said it before, there are many options. and since you are such a huge juliet fan, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. i certainly don't want her to come back as a ghost to haunt those on the beach. it would be nice for those who love her so much to see her back struggle to reunite with her family or sawyer, whichever.

If she really is dead, then I'm just as disgusted by the thought of her not having a centric closure episode as I am with the fact that they even bothered to bring Sawyer and Juliet together in the first place. I jumped on the S/J bandwagon as a former non-shipper because it seemed like the healthiest of the quadrangle permutations and hopefully provided a blockage to a thing I've hated ever since season 1, namely the Kate-centered Triangle of Doom. But if they were just going to kill her off, it's just downright cruel to create a new relationship that attracts tons of new followers, including non-shippers like me and former disillusioned Skaters, only to dissolve it like an oasis mirage in the desert. If she truly is dead and won't come back alive, then it really sickens me how they even bothered with setting up false hope in a new ship fanbase only to take that hope from them so soon. It's downright cruel against Juliet fans and Suliet fans in particular (and non-Suliet shipping Juliet fans). It almost feels to me that they owe the new fanbase they have created an "epic reunion" for pulling this cruel stunt of (possibly) false hope on them. I want Juliet to have decent closure for her story line(s) alive, and maybe she and Sawyer can have their epic reunion (I ultimately just want a happy ending for as many characters as possible), but it mustn't inflict upon her chances of getting off the island in the end. They should honestly have had the decency of never having created the ship in the first place if Juliet really isn't coming back.




I think the short answer to this is it's their story to tell. The sense of entitlement, that we as an audience should get the story or the ending we want is ridiculous IMO. The story and TPTB have shown/said that Suliet was a fantasy. Not a story to get deeply invested in.
I don't think Juliet was sacrificed at the alter of the Quadrangle I think she was sacrificed at the altar of the Writer's strike. It makes sense that the stories that were cut were of those characters that weren't original Losties. Even if there wasn't a writer's strike IMO Juliet would have not made it to season 6. I think they would have wrapped up her story differently but I don't believe it was ever going to end happily. I always thought she would somehow die. Her name is Juliet after all.

I think the short answer to this is it's their story to tell. The sense of entitlement, that we as an audience should get the story or the ending we want is ridiculous IMO. The story and TPTB have shown/said that Suliet was a fantasy. Not a story to get deeply invested in.

that's a little harsh, isn't it.:o i think that if you're going to say this, you need to be saying it to all suliet fans, not just ben. you may as well be saying this to all who ship suliet, skate and jate. and since you do ship, why are you shipping if this is how you feel? and i have never heard TPTB say that suliet was a fantasy.

maybe it was a trial in the beginning. TV guide interviewed josh and elizabeth and they both said that it was shocking to see them put together, but that it worked. if it works, then there's a possibility for it to be extended into next season. possibly not.

certainly all ships have their hopes and ben deroy is no different.

that's a little harsh, isn't it.:o i think that if you're going to say this, you need to be saying it to all suliet fans, not just ben. you may as well be saying this to all who ship suliet, skate and jate. and since you do ship, why are you shipping if this is how you feel? and i have never heard TPTB say that suliet was a fantasy.

maybe it was a trial in the beginning. TV guide interviewed josh and elizabeth and they both said that it was shocking to see them put together, but that it worked. if it works, then there's a possibility for it to be extended into next season. possibly not.

certainly all ships have their hopes and ben deroy is no different.

Max, I wasn't trying to be harsh towards anyone and I used the word "we" which I meant to be all encompassing of everyone who watches this show. We all Hope that the story ends how we want it to but no one is entitled to see that happen. That was all I was trying to say.

that's a little harsh, isn't it.:o i think that if you're going to say this, you need to be saying it to all suliet fans, not just ben. you may as well be saying this to all who ship suliet, skate and jate. and since you do ship, why are you shipping if this is how you feel? and i have never heard TPTB say that suliet was a fantasy.

maybe it was a trial in the beginning. TV guide interviewed josh and elizabeth and they both said that it was shocking to see them put together, but that it worked. if it works, then there's a possibility for it to be extended into next season. possibly not.

certainly all ships have their hopes and ben deroy is no different.

Actually, Damon and Carlton used exactly that word, i.e. "fantasy" to describe the Sawyer and Juliet relationship. I think it was in one of the podcasts. They both used that word.

well, if it was a fantasy, it sure was a good one. i just agree with ben when he said that they drew a lot of the fans into the suliet ship only to let them all down. i mean, for some of us, we probably knew it was a dead horse, but for most who were not shipping anyone and got roped into the relationship, i feel sorry for them. especially with the finale, him leaving on the sub with her, not wanting to go and help jack, going because she said to, getting completely confused when she tried to break up with him and not to mention getting the crap beaten out of him for her and their past, then watching her fall to her death, it was a suliet finale. now, they're throwing crumbs to the suliet fans telling them that juliet will return but not on a regular basis, so the ship board is going crazy with hope and speculations. i just read on the EW/ausiello site that darlton only planned on bringing her back for two episodes, but that was back in may. i have no idea if they are staying with that plan or if they're going to change it up. they even said that they're going to go with their gut, but that that doesn't mean much i bet they're laughing it up! they're still playing the same games only they've added another couple.

That should give people a very good idea of Juliet's chances at survival here and especially after the writers have trashed and ignored everything (Ben, pregnancies, Sun, her family) that was once meaningful about her character and instead turned her into a love triangle prop. She sadly won't be needed anymore from here on in.

Again, if you think that her character was so 'trashed' in its later stages - shouldn't you be on the "hoping-Juliet-lives" side so that the Juliet you like could have a chance to come back and possibly delve a little into those issues?
I just don't get how you can think it was such a bad way to end a character's story... and then not hope that Juliet is back around next year?

I think the short answer to this is it's their story to tell. The sense of entitlement, that we as an audience should get the story or the ending we want is ridiculous IMO. The story and TPTB have shown/said that Suliet was a fantasy. Not a story to get deeply invested in.
I don't think Juliet was sacrificed at the alter of the Quadrangle I think she was sacrificed at the altar of the Writer's strike. It makes sense that the stories that were cut were of those characters that weren't original Losties. Even if there wasn't a writer's strike IMO Juliet would have not made it to season 6. I think they would have wrapped up her story differently but I don't believe it was ever going to end happily. I always thought she would somehow die. Her name is Juliet after all.

LOL where and what exactly was the quote that TPTB said that said Suliet was just a 'fantasy'? They said that the three years spent in Dharmaville aren't really that significant - which it isn't because their day-to-day lives in Dharmaville has nothing to do with the overall sort of 'mythology' of the show. We just needed to know that this is where they've been for three years. The idea that they could stay on the island 'playing house' in Dharmaville back in the past was the fantasy - not the relationship, itself.
What I did here TPTB saying about Suliet was along these lines...
Carlton Cuse: "[Suliet is] a mature, adult, relationship, which was basically not about the sort of 'chemsity' or the passion, but it was about two people who, you know, fell in love and have that deeper connection of that long-term bond"

I actually think Charlotte was the one that got the biggest shaft because of the writer's strike :( I think I read somewhere that hey originally had a centric-episode for her in Season 4 but later had to cut it out. So, she never got one at all.

And sure it was always a thought that she would die, with her name being 'Juliet'. Almost a little too obvious for Lost writers, IMHO, lol. Didn't Jacob catch a red herring at the beginning of the finale? lol who knows what Darlton has planned!
I think it's just as likely that Juliet was so named because of what happened to her overall. She bonded with Jack (and eventually the other Losties) even though she was originally from the other side of the 'feud'/war. Love also seems to have alluded her in her life (ex-husband, Goodwin killed, Jack in love with Kate) until Sawyer - and then they're ripped apart by magnetized chains. I think that's tragic enough as it is, without adding her 'death' to the end of it. JMO, of course. The writers will do whatever they want :)

Why? Don't you think there is a possibility that Darlton took into consideration the reaction of the fans and will bring Juliet back for more episodes?They are always hearing what fans have to say and if they write Juliet off for the final season it won't be good.

Well, IMHO, judging by every poll that's been out there on the net since Suliet's introduction, a "majority" of fans seem to want Suliet more than any other ship on the show. And Doc Jensen (in his interview with Darlton) pointed out they got the most overwhelmingly positive feedback for the episode "LaFleur" - the very episode that introduced Suliet.
I'm not referring to a few thousand online fans/shippers who can multi-vote in online polls, I'm referring to the 8+ million viewers who are following the story, as it's being told on screen. :)

And in answer to your points A) Juliet stopped him from saying anything after she brought up the "I saw you look at her", so he B) just cut right to the chase saying he didn't care who he looked at, and assured her that he was with her C) did actually go after her when she walked away (not initially but you see him in their next scene walking behind Juliet when Jack is walking away with the bomb) and then he resolutely stands beside her (http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5356/theincident1127.jpg) after that and consults her before making a decision about Jack. Which, IMHO, is significant because Juliet was worried that Sawyer would only stay with her "if [she] let him" - but now, even though she's trying to not let him, he remains with her.
Juliet got her answer when Sawyer didn't stop her and continue their conversation. Yes he trailed along after her, but she had the final word. Rather than him stopping her in mid-track and saying "no you don't Blondie, this conversation ain't over. I love you and only you and want to be with you and only you and you're not getting rid of me quite so easy!", he aquiesced with his silence. She knew that she was right, and so did he, which is why he didn't press the issue.


I would argue Juliet is in a completely different category than Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, and Ana-Lucia. Juliet's been around for three years, she's the only person who's been with the Others, Dharma Initiative, and the Losties, she's a fertility specialist on an island that had a big honkin statue of the Egyptian god of fertility, pregnancy, and childbirth, etc etc.
It really is such a shame that the writers abandoned Juliet so completely. With the Egyptian statue being revealed at last, and with the meaning behind it - - why was Juliet put into the freakin' Motor Pool in the DI? Why was she not introduced as a doctor, and given free rein in the medical facilities to continue working as her calling...a doctor? :(

That tells me that the writers had no intention of returning Juliet to any sort of important status in the Big Picture of the story. Rather, she was relegated to triangle fodder and Skate obstacle. Such a waste. :shakehead:


I would totally argue against the idea that Juliet was just a "weak, wibbly, female" this year! We saw a side of her that we've never really seen before - her actually being happy & in love.
True, it was nice to see her happy and in love...for all of, what, one scene? The next moment, Kate was back, Sawyer was racing out the door to get to her, and Juliet's resignation kicked in as soon as she got the news. The majority of the rest of their time together was filled with various brooding (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season5/5x14/normal_variable279.jpg) looks (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season5/5x16/normal_theincident329.jpg) from Juliet, guilty (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season5/5x16/normal_theincident922.jpg) looks (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season5/5x14/normal_variable400.jpg) from Sawyer, and of course her multiple "this is over" comments.
100%
It almost feels to me that they owe the new fanbase they have created an "epic reunion" for pulling this cruel stunt of (possibly) false hope on them.
Darlton owe no one anything, except to be true to the story they want to tell. They don't owe Skate fans a happily ever after for Sawyer and Kate, or Suliet fans one for Sawyer and Juliet, they don't owe Juliet fans her life (or her death to non-Juliet fans, for that matter), so let's just keep the word "owe" out of the discussions, please. :)

Again, if you think that her character was so 'trashed' in its later stages - shouldn't you be on the "hoping-Juliet-lives" side so that the Juliet you like could have a chance to come back and possibly delve a little into those issues?
I just don't get how you can think it was such a bad way to end a character's story... and then not hope that Juliet is back around next year?

i agree with this.



And sure it was always a thought that she would die, with her name being 'Juliet'.
and as the story goes, romeo dies too.

Why? Don't you think there is a possibility that Darlton took into consideration the reaction of the fans and will bring Juliet back for more episodes?They are always hearing what fans have to say and if they write Juliet off for the final season it won't be good.
if you're talking to me, absolutely, lostie! i think that they will change it up. i'm just telling you what they said back in may. may was also when they had the results from the abc poll and the E poll. if they were smart, they'd change the story up. they've known for 4 years how the ending was going to happen, but that doesn't mean that they have the scripts done and the storylines up to the ending in stone. i think that they were sure juliet was a goner, she got the role for V, put her together with sawyer knowing that the other gal was coming back to the island and thought it would be easy to pull suliet apart. it wasn't so easy was it? fans came out from all over the place. people that didn't ship at all. goodness, i talk to men that think that juliet is a saint and beautiful and see the changes in sawyer and like it. this isn't a fly by night couple anymore like they had planned it. i think they'd see it have as much steam as ana lucia and sawyer, but it was like the little train that could.

i have no worries. not at all. but if they disappoint, i wouldn't be surprised at all. i've come to expect disappointment when it comes to shipping.

I think what it comes down to is that nobody associated with the show expected the audience to jump on the Suliet bandwagon. Quite the contrary. They expected the audience to hate it and if they expected the audience to hate it, they also expected the audience to root for Sawyer to get rid of Juliet in one way or another in order to get back together with his one true love Kate and especially after WHH and if they expected the audience to root for Juliet to disappear they also figured that people wouldn't be all that torn up about Juliet getting killed off. It's a vicious circle.


I actually disagree with this a little bit. I don't think the writers understood the full effect of the Kate-hate that has grown in leaps & bounds over the past few seasons, so it made sense that a few fans would root against her getting Sawyer back with no effort/obstacle. And speaking as a still-going-strong Skater, I didn't hate Juliet's romance with Sawyer. It was disappointing to me that they wasted her character on such an obvious and contrived plot point (Skate angst), but they were very sweet together, if underdeveloped. However, I never saw the point of getting too invested in Suliet, because from what I saw, the story was always moving away from their fantasy life, and swinging Sawyer and Kate back into each others' orbits. It's just sad that Juliet had to suffer for that storyline. She could have remained single in the DI and been put into the medical situations, would have given her a MUCH more rewarding character arc.

:twocents:

so let's just keep the word "owe" out of the discussions, please. :)


Originally Posted by Ben DeRoy http://forum.thefuselage.com/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=2197747#post2197747)
It almost feels to me that they owe the new fanbase they have created an "epic reunion"


he said "it almost feels like they owe". he didn't say they owe it to us.

I'm not referring to a few thousand online fans/shippers who can multi-vote in online polls, I'm referring to the 8+ million viewers who are following the story, as it's being told on screen. :)

lol well, again, that's your opinion. And that's fine you think a majority of fans agree with you. I don't but we can't really throw those kind of statistics around without any evidence, right?
I just mentioned the polls (etc) because its one way to gauge general fan reaction. *shrugs* Not perfect, but at least its something.


Darlton owe no one anything, except to be true to the story they want to tell. They don't owe Skate fans a happily ever after for Sawyer and Kate, or Suliet fans one for Sawyer and Juliet, they don't owe Juliet fans her life (or her death to non-Juliet fans, for that matter), so let's just keep the word "owe" out of the discussions, please. :)

I agree with you there. The writers will do what the writers will do, whether endgame be Suliet, Skate, Jate, or even Jacket. Or maybe they'll all die. Who knows.
We're all just guessing what will happen based clues that the writers have given us in the show. But it's their call.

Why? Don't you think there is a possibility that Darlton took into consideration the reaction of the fans and will bring Juliet back for more episodes?They are always hearing what fans have to say and if they write Juliet off for the final season it won't be good.
They don't have that option of keeping her. Elizabeth Mitchell will be playing the lead role in one of ABC's new shows, one they're very psyched about. Her new show has actually been given a four-year pick-up, which is something unheard of ever before. Lost was the first series to negotiate and end date, but V has it built in from the very start. Steven McPherson said this story will have a beginning, a middle and an end. This is a huge FIRST in scripted television, and a victory for fans of serialized TV drama everywhere. It's also a big gamble for ABC. So it's only logical to me that the network is going to want EM's time and energy focused on her new show. That's why I don't imagine her making more than a token appearance or two on Lost next season.

Juliet was always an ancillary character. She was brought in as a love interest for Jack, to cause some distraction in the triangle. Then she had a relationship with Sawyer in Dharmavile. The fact is, Juliet's screen time has always been in proportion to her involvement with both of those men. I think that as far as Darlton are concerned, they've already wrapped her story up as much as they intend to. They've specifically said they are "winnowing" the characters down because they want the final season to focus on the original survivors of Flight 815, and that makes me dread the loss of Miles and Frank at some point.

I certainly don't think TPTB believe they're going to lose a huge number of fans because they killed off Juliet. Why would they believe that? The people watching now are hard core fans that will be watching till the series wraps. They took a dip in S5 because that's when they went hard core Sci-Fi, so I doubt they were surprised at losing some people. But from here on, it's the wrap up that everybody's been waiting for since they crashed on the island. If anything, they might pick up a few people who will come back to see how it all ends.

Yeah, Maxaholic, I have that same feeling. The writers thought of writing Juliet off a piece of cake. And I have to say that would be the case exactly if they killed Juliet back in Season 4. But now, her character has gained the support of the the fans and also of the people who want this love triangle to be over. Juliet gave Sawyer what he really needed; the willing to change and become a better man. However, his connection with Kate is still there and that would be the key factor if Juliet has died. He will definitely turn to Kate, but no romantically. He will find a true friend in her, a person who understands him better of all people.

LOL where and what exactly was the quote that TPTB said that said Suliet was just a 'fantasy'?

The quote is from a video feed of Damon & Carlton answering fan questions, link here (http://lylyford.blogspot.com/2009/04/liveautos-videos-or-one-of-best-day-in.html):
D: You are very welcome Lily for doing an episode about Sawyer and Kate's little whispery moment and Kate's promise to Sawyer. It was our pleasure.

C: As for the future of Kate and Sawyer, you're going to have to keep watching the show. We obviously can't tell you exactly what is going to happen, but we can tell you there is definitely more to come.

D: I think Lily's a little concerned that Sawyer's living in some sort of fantasy world with Juliet.

C: Hmmm.

D: We'll see how long that lasts. We're not sure.

C: We're not sure.

D: Fantasies have a way of--

C: Being fantasies. That's why they're called fantasies.

D: Precisely.

IDarlton owe no one anything, except to be true to the story they want to tell. They don't owe Skate fans a happily ever after for Sawyer and Kate, or Suliet fans one for Sawyer and Juliet, they don't owe Juliet fans her life (or her death to non-Juliet fans, for that matter), so let's just keep the word "owe" out of the discussions, please. :)

Maybe not, but I still maintain that I think they should never have gotten Sawyer and Juliet together in the first place if she truly is dead. The writers should have realized that they would only leave a new fanbase of shippers disappointed by this sudden turn. If they just planned on having Juliet dead anyway, they didn't even need to have S/J together for her to detonate that bomb. If S/J will turn out to have served a higher purpose other than just triangle fodder, I'm OK with it, but if Juliet won't come back alive, I definitely wish that S/J never happened at all. I'm mostly a non-shipper who jumped on the S/J bandwagon for 80% strategic reasons and 20% emotional reasons, and I basically just want a happy ending for Juliet and as many other characters as possible. I was mostly talking about those who ship S/J for 100% emotional reasons. It just seems like such a gigantic waste right now. The biggest thing that it has done for me is that it turned me from being basically just indifferent to the Jack/Sawyer/Kate triangle to hating it with a passion.

And while they can tell the story the way they want, they still want a story that a new generation of fans 30 years from now can watch and like, and killing a character that a substantial portion of the fanbase have come to like in a horrible and bloody death will seem just as tasteless after 30 years as it seems now. They didn't just kill her (unless they didn't), they gave her a fraction of one episode of relative happiness only to take that away from her and throw her into an abyss to die alone. And all of this without giving her one single centric as closure. And in retrospective it will be very obvious that she was killed(?) just to make way for Kate to make her "choice", as things seems right now. And future viewers will see that this is after she has already stepped aside from Jack already and gave him up to Kate, and now the writers had her doing it a SECOND time with Sawyer, this time possibly by death. Do you think that future viewers are going to appreciate watching that, and how will it make Kate look in their eyes?

D: I think Lily's a little concerned that Sawyer's living in some sort of fantasy world with Juliet.

I think this refers more to how they're living on borrowed time in the past in a community that will be dead within 15 years, and are lying about who they are and where they're from in order to have a place there. I think that is the fantasy they're refering to, not necessarily the relationship itself. The Dharma fantasy ended in "Follow the Leader" when they were exposed and exiled.

And while they can tell the story the way they want, they still want a story that a new generation of fans 30 years from now can watch and like, and killing a character that a substantial portion of the fanbase have come to like in a horrible and bloody death will seem just as tasteless after 30 years as it seems now. They didn't just kill her (unless they didn't), they gave her a fraction of one episode of relative happiness only to take that away from her and throw her into an abyss to die alone. And all of this without giving her one single centric as closure. And in retrospective it will be very obvious that she was killed(?) just to make way for Kate to make her "choice", as things seems right now. And future viewers will see that this is after she has already stepped aside from Jack already and gave him up to Kate, and now the writers had her doing it a SECOND time with Sawyer, this time possibly by death. Do you think that future viewers are going to appreciate watching that, and how will it make Kate look in their eyes? excellent ben.

i do however have something to say that's depressing. remember shannon? she was so very boring to me. i didn't care one way or the other if she was alive or dead. the actress actually grew up in my hometown, so i was really excited to have her on the show. can we say boring????? anyway, they put her with a phenomenal character, sayid, and their relationship grew. the episode where she died, they gave us her FB and i was actually beginning to care about her and then BOOM she's shot dead. heartbreaking heartbreaking!!!! so this would not be the first time that the writers did something stupid. the only thing different is that juliet was not a boring character and she had a storyline. some say she didn't, but she really did.

keep the hope, ben. she IS coming back next season whether anyone likes it or not. at first, it was for a couple episodes, but that may change. i'm sure we will get more spoilers, but like i've done for 5 long years, you always have to hope! no matter what anyone says to the contrary is speculation until the spoilers arrive.

Maybe not, but I still maintain that I think they should never have gotten Sawyer and Juliet together in the first place if she truly is dead. The writers should have realized that they would only leave a new fanbase of shippers disappointed by this sudden turn.
Oh don't get me wrong, I hear you. Tell it to the Sayid/Shannon shippers. Or the Charlie/Claire shippers. ;)

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but the word "owe" has never sat well with me amongst fandom. The writers/creators do not owe the fans anything, and they do not pander to any particular group of fans. If they did, then NONE of the characters would ever have died, because they all have/had fans who supported them. I loved Mr Eko, but I had to let him go. I loved Charlie, Juliet, I grew to like Shannon very much...had to let 'em all go, too.

Darlton have made tweaks and adjustments based on fan reactions (see: Nikki/Paolo), but they aren't going to change the big picture that they're telling. Nikki/Paolo didn't factor into that. Neither did Charlie. Neither did Juliet. Thus, they were expendable characters, after their purpose had been served. I have a feeling that the O6 will be the big players. Maybe Ilana and part of her group, and obviously Ben, Locke and Jacob...but besides that, I think we'll need Sawyer, Kate, Sun, Jin, Hurley and Jack. Rose/Bernard, I'll be surprised if we see them again, other than to see what their final fate is.

Juliet will certainly be mourned. She was introduced as a complete enigma, and I fell in love with her and Liz Mitchell the first moment she stepped onto the screen. Fan reaction was very positive, and the producers spoke very highly of the character and clearly adore the actress. A few keystrokes on Google will find all sorts of supportive quotes from them about both Juliet and Liz Mitchell. As well as Charlie/Dom, Shannon/Maggie, Libby/Cynthia, etc, etc. But that support won't make their characters any less dead. :(