When unLocke confronts Jacob, he says "You have no idea what I had to do to get here." Supposedly he has only been "occupying/using" Locke for a short while--since Ajira crashed. So what did he mean by that? Did it refer to all the planning time involved in selecting Locke as the one to use?

When unLocke confronts Jacob, he says "You have no idea what I had to do to get here." Supposedly he has only been "occupying/using" Locke for a short while--since Ajira crashed. So what did he mean by that? Did it refer to all the planning time involved in selecting Locke as the one to use?

I think so. I can't help but think he was "occupying/using" Christian Shepard just prior.

Well, at the beginning of the episode Jacob indicates that Esau or whatever his name is brought the black rock and those people to the island in order to disprove Jacob's theory (whatever it is). So, I'm assuming that Esau was also responsible for bringing Oceanic 815 to the island for the same reason, so he's been manipulating Locke and the others to some degree for some time.

I thought that it was *Jacob* who kept bringing people to the island, to the dismay of "Esau." No?

Well, at the beginning of the episode Jacob indicates that Esau or whatever his name is brought the black rock and those people to the island in order to disprove Jacob's theory (whatever it is). So, I'm assuming that Esau was also responsible for bringing Oceanic 815 to the island for the same reason, so he's been manipulating Locke and the others to some degree for some time.

Sounds like you have that backwards - the Other Guy was accusing Jacob of having brought the Black Rock (and other people) to the island.

When unLocke confronts Jacob, he says "You have no idea what I had to do to get here." Supposedly he has only been "occupying/using" Locke for a short while--since Ajira crashed. So what did he mean by that? Did it refer to all the planning time involved in selecting Locke as the one to use?

1. Analyzing and failing to con Eko using fake Yemi.
2. Using Christian to get Locke off of the island.
3. Using Alex to convince Ben to follow Locke.
4. Using Locke to convince Ben to kill Jacob.

No one is occupying Locke's body. Locke's body is dead on the beach. Locke himself materialized himself a new body. "Esau" was a past life of his, which he is now more fully aware of. Locke was talking to Jacob about all the things he has gone through that we've seen him going through; just as he talked to Ben about the things they had experienced together, about when they first met, about Ben's charade at the cabin; and to Sun about Jin and their friends.

Well, at the beginning of the episode Jacob indicates that Esau or whatever his name is brought the black rock and those people to the island in order to disprove Jacob's theory (whatever it is). So, I'm assuming that Esau was also responsible for bringing Oceanic 815 to the island for the same reason, so he's been manipulating Locke and the others to some degree for some time.

You're remembering it wrong. It was Jacob who brought the ship to prove Esau wrong. Esau/Locke says people only destroy and corrupt. Jacob says that on the way they also make progress.

Well, at the beginning of the episode Jacob indicates that Esau or whatever his name is brought the black rock and those people to the island in order to disprove Jacob's theory (whatever it is).

Are you sure? I thought Esau was upset with Jacob for Jacob bringing them to the island.

"Esau" had to jump through a ton of hoops spread out over a considerable amount of time in order to achieve his end game: securing the right person under the right circumstances who would be able to get to Jacob and willingly kill him. One of the main issues is he appeared to be trapped in a sort of Phantom Zone (i.e. The Cabin). My guess is Jacob somehow pulled some strings in order for him to be trapped there.

Seems like Esau tried to analyze Eko to see if he was worthy for his plan. Remember, Eko was also a very religious and man of faith man as Locke was. When Esau aka the Smoke Monster figures that he is not worthy, he moves on to Locke which is why Eko tells Locke "You're next"

Seems like Esau tried to analyze Eko to see if he was worthy for his plan. Remember, Eko was also a very religious and man of faith man as Locke was. When Esau aka the Smoke Monster figures that he is not worthy, he moves on to Locke which is why Eko tells Locke "You're next"

Great catch. Eko could have been a contender....if you would have been untrue to himself.

Good question.

It seems that Locke was in commune with Smoky/Mr Loophole when he thought he was in commune with the Island itself.

And likely that Smoky conned Locke again when it pretended to be a trapped Jacob in the cabin.

I think Smoky/Mr Loophole killed Mr Eko because Eko definitely saw through it/him.


All meaning Locke played for the wrong side the entire time.

Richard sensed this, but why no warning from Jacob?



When unLocke confronts Jacob, he says "You have no idea what I had to do to get here." Supposedly he has only been "occupying/using" Locke for a short while--since Ajira crashed. So what did he mean by that? Did it refer to all the planning time involved in selecting Locke as the one to use?

I think so. I can't help but think he was "occupying/using" Christian Shepard just prior.

That would fit very well with "Christian's" instruction to Frank and Sun to wait for "John Locke".

Eko was written to contend for Lockes position as spiritual advisor of our losties. I dare say hence the almost reversal of name. Unfortuantely due to his dislike of living in Hawaii since his second episode he was quite happily written out of the show.

I think everything is reset with the FDW and they play another game of prove me wrong. Variables are people and the MIB (man in black) finally realises that using that is the only way to provide him the loophole he needs to kill Jacob.

I think so. I can't help but think he was "occupying/using" Christian Shepard just prior.
So by this theory what was going on when Locke was watching over unconscious Ben on hydra island, and simultaneously, Ben and Sun saw Smokey moving the trees on the main island near the dock, and then talked to Christian in the Processing Center?

So by this theory what was going on when Locke was watching over unconscious Ben on hydra island, and simultaneously, Ben and Sun saw Smokey moving the trees on the main island near the dock, and then talked to Christian in the Processing Center?

I've posted a similar question Pythagoras in other threads and haven't seen a response.:undecide:

Locke is the perfect archetype of a messiah... he is doubted and insulted until the end. No, beyond the end. Even after the resurrection there is nothing but doubt and insult for John. Doubting Thomas indeed.

Locke is the perfect archetype of a messiah... he is doubted and insulted until the end. No, beyond the end. Even after the resurrection there is nothing but doubt and insult for John. Doubting Thomas indeed.

Oh dear... looks like someone is in deinal :)

So by this theory what was going on when Locke was watching over unconscious Ben on hydra island, and simultaneously, Ben and Sun saw Smokey moving the trees on the main island near the dock, and then talked to Christian in the Processing Center?

Are you really asking me?
Because I have no clue. I was just saying that I couldn't help but think it.
I don't think I'd dare actually theorize as to what's going on now :D

So by this theory what was going on when Locke was watching over unconscious Ben on hydra island, and simultaneously, Ben and Sun saw Smokey moving the trees on the main island near the dock, and then talked to Christian in the Processing Center?

Maybe we're ascribing too many shenanigans to Cerberus? I still see Cerberus as a tool rather than a sentient being. Since Esau used "we" instead of "I", maybe what we're seeing is a race of beings who all have the ability to shapeshift?

No one is occupying Locke's body. Locke's body is dead on the beach. Locke himself materialized himself a new body. "Esau" was a past life of his, which he is now more fully aware of. Locke was talking to Jacob about all the things he has gone through that we've seen him going through; just as he talked to Ben about the things they had experienced together, about when they first met, about Ben's charade at the cabin; and to Sun about Jin and their friends.



That theory is wrong in so many ways it's just not true !!!!
100%
Seems like Esau tried to analyze Eko to see if he was worthy for his plan. Remember, Eko was also a very religious and man of faith man as Locke was. When Esau aka the Smoke Monster figures that he is not worthy, he moves on to Locke which is why Eko tells Locke "You're next"


And why would Smokey / Esau try and drag Locke down a hole ?



This Esau storyline has got some of you in an even bigger tangle than the time travel. If people stopped and thought about previous seasons, there are too many reasons for Locke not to have been possessed the whole time / Esau not to be Smokey / Esau not to be Christian in the cabin. Whichever route you take, you'll come to a gaping hole.

All the mistakes Locke's made since S1, all the doubt, the second guessing, the link of new failures to his own past.... all implies Locke certainly wasn't being possessed by Esau for such a long time. It would render Locke's character redundant, if it were true.

Right now, however... I've asked this on other threads without response: if Smokey used dead bodies to contact people and speak to them e.g. Yemi, Christian, then this (Esau being Locke) is signficantly different, since Locke's dead body exists at the same time, same place. Esau clearly isn't occupying Locke's actual dead body.

So, I'd say we're meant to find Esau/Locke a separate entity, compared to Smokey 'being' Alex, Yemi etc.

I'd say the two have merged in a sense, hence new Locke's knowledge of real Locke's history. Reincarnation? Sounds intriguing, and if seen in the context of these two supernatural beings (Jacob and Esau) playing out this same conflict for centuries, it could fit. But I'll reserve judgment for now...

Seems like Esau tried to analyze Eko to see if he was worthy for his plan. Remember, Eko was also a very religious and man of faith man as Locke was. When Esau aka the Smoke Monster figures that he is not worthy, he moves on to Locke which is why Eko tells Locke "You're next"

Rabidranger is right, that is a great catch!

What's impressed me many times about Lost is how the explanations for seemingly complicated things end up being rather straight-forward. Jacob isn't Jack or Locke, he's Jacob. Alpert didn't foresee the future to visit newborn Locke, he just acted on what time-skipping losties told him. Ben didn't see Jacob, he pretended. Danielle went nuts because her crew really DID go crazy and tried to kill her.

I believe there will be a fairly straight forward and easy-to-understand explanation for why Esau now looks like Locke. However, I have no idea what that explanation is. Heh. It seems to me that Locke is a lot more "real" than any apparition we've seen of Smokey. He eats, he travels across water (have we seen him jump a fence? ;)), puts shoes on, makes jokes and is generally "visible" for a very long time. Not at all like Yemi or Alex who just made brief "visits".

It's possible that unLocke = Esau = Smokey, which would mean unLocke/Esau is a shapeshifter. A shapeshifter who liked to look like a human being and sit on a beach once upon a time. Too many weird details there... There's a connection between Esau, Smokey and unLocke, (and Jacob too!) but I'll be damned if I can figure it out! TPTB are doing a good job of keeping some key pieces of the puzzle hidden.