Lots of things were answered or became clear with this finale. Vincent, Rose and Bernard are having a wonderful time in the 70s. Jacob has some mysterious guy that some here seem to believe is his brother Esau (not completely sure about that myself). Of course Jacob himself up close and personal for the first time. He visited every one of the O5 (plus Jin) but what about the all important sixth one, Aaron? Maybe I blinked and missed it but it seems Jacob ignored Aaron (Claire too).

With all the hoopla concerning Aaron in the beginning it gave me the hint he's important. Apparently not.

Bummer.

At least Jack and Kate had that conversation about Aaron and Claire. That's a good sign that the writers don't want us to forget about them.

I guess we're meant to expect that if Jack did manage to "reset" the events leading up to the plane crash, that it would then be Claire's decision on whether she would put him up for adoption or not. I have to wonder that if Claire would even be on 815 at that point. Malkin was the one who insisted that she take that flight, but maybe someone connected to the island put him up to it. Maybe the "reset" changes circumstances so that whoever it was no longer has the motive to get her on the plane. I also doubt there really was a couple waiting to adopt in LA, but maybe so.

There was also the scene with Sun finding the cradle and Charlie's ring.

I'm thinking Aaron was too young to be visited by Jacob, or rather that he was too young to be influenced by Jacob.

Yes it was very cool that they brought back the ring Charlie left.

I'm thinking it may be that Aaron is something different. I've always felt there was a sort of doom surrounding the child. Maybe that's why he was not visited?

I really think that Aaron will be very important next season and may end up coming back to the island. If Esau or whatever we're calling him has been manipulating Locke as Christian, he may have also been manipulating others using Claire. When Claire went to Kate in the dream and told her not to bring Aaron back it could have been because Aaron could be used by Jacob in some way.

I also think this is tied to the statue though I'm not sure how. If Aaron is important in this way, it's probably tied to the fact that women can't have children on the island. Maybe Aaron's presence would undermine something Esau did to the dynamic of the island causing children to not be born. Could be just metaphorically but the statue representing god and childbirth being destroyed has to be connected somehow.

They've always made Aaron out to be some sort of critical element to the overall "grand scheme" of the show.

I just came to the idea, in another thread, that Aaron might grow up to be the body Jacob is inhabiting in the Season Finale (with the assistance of island-driven time travel).

In fact, if this whole "possessing bodies" thing is a real part of how Jacob operates, perhaps Aaron grows up to be Jacob's first body.

I don't know. I'm just trying to think of a way for Aaron to be as "crucial" to the story as they had been making him out to be in the first few seasons.

... and what about Walt?

Excuse me, I mean:

WAAAA-HA-HA-HAAAALT!!!!

Yes it seems Aaron and Walt may be something to watch for. Jacobs last words "They're coming" lead me to believe he was talking about the people he touched (Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Locke, Sun and Jin) but maybe its the ones he didn't touch like Aaron and Walt, the only other two who left the island and is still living. Also makes me wonder since Locke had a lot to do with them both during the time on the island. Taught Walt how to focus and throw a knife and built the cradle for Aaron.

Well we didn't see Claire all season, doesn't mean Claire didn't get a visit by Jacob. Jacob could of visited Walt and Claire off-island, but maybe thats reserved for season 6.

Perhaps Claire was forced to give up Aaron to protect him from Jacob's enemy, and why he got sent off-island. I do think Claire telling Kate in a dream not to bring Aaron back, is because Jacob's enemy wants him for something, and he can be protected off-island.

I think Sun finding the DS ring, could be a sign she will meet up with Claire soon, given shes the only 815 survivor in present day where Claire is now, until the other losties return there.

What about Aaron???


... and what about Walt?



What about them?

As i re-watch the first 2 season. I am beginning to believe Aaron is on the side or some sort of plan of the man in black. That's why Jacob doesn't visit him or Claire. That could explain the terrified look on the psychic's face when he initially read Claire's mind. Maulkin knew he had to get Claire (and thus Aaron) on that island because the MIB told him to do it during those readings.

I just cant wait to see whats in store from Aaron- I knew from the beginning he would be important and I know he will be. My only fear ( like many of you) is that he will be used for evil.

I think that Claires protection is the only thing that prevent him from any evil that he may encounter. I think if Jacob did visit Claire it might be saved for season 6 because of its content. If he didn't make a visit, then maybe he wants things to run its course and not interfere?

I definitely think Aaron will be important. The whole thing in Raised By Another in season one about how 'evil surrounds this child' and how Claire's goodness had to be an influence in his life.

Worrying stuff, seeing as Claire and Aaron have been separated for the last three years...

I also get reminded of Charlies visions about Aaron ...

I also get reminded of Charlies visions about Aaron ...

Oh hell yeah! I really want these explained!

Oh hell yeah! I really want these explained!

Maybe it was Jacob trying to protect him from MIB or vice versa?

Yeah I've thought of that... I really hope they explain these dreams. It just seems like such a loose end and I'd be very disappointed if we never got to find out what was going on.

are we talking about when Charlie saw Claire as the virgin Mary and Hurley as John the Baptist (I'm assuming)? Then a white dove flies out of nowhere.

Yea when he suddenly feels the need to baptize the baby

I just got done watching Fire & Water on my rewind starting from S1. To me it was pretty obvious that Charlie was being manipulated in the same fashion as Locke had been in episodes like Deus Ex Machina. It is really an indictment against Locke at that point in time for not being very understanding of what Charlie was going through. Which makes me wonder if those two were being manipulated by the opposing players.

Anyway, my theory is that whoever was manipulating Charlie was trying to get rid of Aaron for some reason. I think they were trying to get Charlie to inadvertantly drown Aaron. Much in the same way that I think Hurley's visions of Dave were an attempt by one of the players to get rid of Hugo by attempting to get him to jump off that cliff.


Now if you can subscribe to the idea that Locke and Charley were being manipulated by different forces, hence their tendancies towards animosity, it does lead one to conclude that neither of those guys (Jacob or MiB) are very nice dudes. One leads Locke to a point that ends in Boone getting killed. The other tries to lead Charlie to drown Aaron. Maybe...

But who knows? Maybe it is all the same guy doing the manipulating. Regardless, I can't think of an alternative outcome to all of Charlie's Aaron obsessions that would end in a possitive conclusion.

I just got done watching Fire & Water on my rewind starting from S1. To me it was pretty obvious that Charlie was being manipulated in the same fashion as Locke had been in episodes like Deus Ex Machina. It is really an indictment against Locke at that point in time for not being very understanding of what Charlie was going through. Which makes me wonder if those two were being manipulated by the opposing players.

Anyway, my theory is that whoever was manipulating Charlie was trying to get rid of Aaron for some reason. I think they were trying to get Charlie to inadvertantly drown Aaron. Much in the same way that I think Hurley's visions of Dave were an attempt by one of the players to get rid of Hugo by attempting to get him to jump off that cliff.


Now if you can subscribe to the idea that Locke and Charley were being manipulated by different forces, hence their tendancies towards animosity, it does lead one to conclude that neither of those guys (Jacob or MiB) are very nice dudes. One leads Locke to a point that ends in Boone getting killed. The other tries to lead Charlie to drown Aaron. Maybe...

But who knows? Maybe it is all the same guy doing the manipulating. Regardless, I can't think of an alternative outcome to all of Charlie's Aaron obsessions that would end in a possitive conclusion.

This makes some sense to me. I seem to remember reading some of the whispers transcripts for this episode and, if I remember correctly, they made it sound like Charlie was being manipulated.

Anyway, my theory is that whoever was manipulating Charlie was trying to get rid of Aaron for some reason. I think they were trying to get Charlie to inadvertantly drown Aaron. Much in the same way that I think Hurley's visions of Dave were an attempt by one of the players to get rid of Hugo by attempting to get him to jump off that cliff...

But who knows? Maybe it is all the same guy doing the manipulating. Regardless, I can't think of an alternative outcome to all of Charlie's Aaron obsessions that would end in a possitive conclusion.

I totally agree with your take on the behind-the-scenes manipulation, Roy. I've been thinking that Jacob has been pushing for Aaron to be raised by Claire, which would signify 'progress' in terms of unification of the lostaways (after all, Kate did tell Claire "This baby is ALL OF OURS, but I need you to push, OK?").

The MiB, on the other hand, seems bound and determined to prove that destruction and corruption lie at the end of the lostaways' journey...whether this will come about through Aaron's death, or his removal from the island to be raised by another. Once Aaron had been safely delivered and his death had been successfully diverted, the MiB may have continued to use Hurley (and Christian) to assure that he would be taken from the island, and removed from the care of his mother.

Charlie, perhaps somehow guided by Jacob, gave the lostaways a shot at averting Aaron's eventual removal from the island when he relayed The message, "Not Penny's Boat". Had his cohorts on the beach simply passed this message on to Jack, Aaron may have remained on the island. BUT, in combination with Christian's separation of mother and son, Hurley's decision to throw Sawyer's walkie talkie into the ocean sealed Aaron's fate. Aside from significant outside persuasion, it seems unlikely that Hurley would have prevented the transmission of a message that his best friend had just given his life to retrieve.

I definitely think Aaron will be important. The whole thing in Raised By Another in season one about how 'evil surrounds this child' and how Claire's goodness had to be an influence in his life.

Worrying stuff, seeing as Claire and Aaron have been separated for the last three years...

Yup-yup-yup. *Just* finished re-watching this episode (in blu-ray!) and I was really surprised about how sinister the prediction was. All this time I had recalled that Claire must raise the baby herself as a protection of Aaron against danger. (it's "danger surrounds this child", btw) I had totally missed/forgotten that the prediction totally makes it sound like she's carrying baby-Hitler and her "goodness" is the only thing that will keep things safe.

However, it's tricky reading too much into the early episodes, though. Claire's dream in this ep has Locke with stones for eyes (one light and one dark, natch) saying that she was "responsible" for caring for the child and now "everyone" is in peril because she wanted to put it up for adoption. It... doesn't really fit into how the character of the island and the story in general has evolved.

But if they're mining the actual prediction to figure out how this will all work out, Aaron sounds like a time-bomb. Dangerous.

and keep in mind that claire realized the psychic knew and had sent her there (the island) on purpose. Strange thing is she never told anyone else except Charlie who was there when she realized it.

But if they're mining the actual prediction to figure out how this will all work out, Aaron sounds like a time-bomb. Dangerous.

Dangerous if she doesn't raise him? (we'd have to believe malkin was telling the truth) or Dangerous if she does raise him? (we'd have to believe Malkin was lying to her in order for Claire and Aaron to fall into MiB's grasp)

That Claire was kept on the island and Aaron allowed to leave, when a seemingly sinister CS in Boots comes strolling out the jungle, makes me think that Claire's importance may be greater to the story we'll see unfold. Aaron may have importance in a sense that's alluded to but not shown.

How much acting can they expect to get out of a four year old? I think we'll learn Aaron's importance by learning what Claire's is.

It's tough to guess who's thrall she's fallen under because it depends on the interpretation of what Malkin told her. Jack is important to the island and events that take place there, so I think Claire will be too.

Is Aaron being off island good or bad? Tough call.
and keep in mind that claire realized the psychic knew and had sent her there (the island) on purpose. Strange thing is she never told anyone else except Charlie who was there when she realized it.

No one else knows about the pyschic but a dead/not dead/dead but here Charlie. And Eko, indirectly. Huh.

Claire and Aaron stories may have to be looked at a lot closer before the final curtain call.

Some great posts on this thread.

I especially like Roy's summary:

I just got done watching Fire & Water on my rewind starting from S1. To me it was pretty obvious that Charlie was being manipulated in the same fashion as Locke had been in episodes like Deus Ex Machina. It is really an indictment against Locke at that point in time for not being very understanding of what Charlie was going through. Which makes me wonder if those two were being manipulated by the opposing players.

Anyway, my theory is that whoever was manipulating Charlie was trying to get rid of Aaron for some reason. I think they were trying to get Charlie to inadvertantly drown Aaron. Much in the same way that I think Hurley's visions of Dave were an attempt by one of the players to get rid of Hugo by attempting to get him to jump off that cliff.


Now if you can subscribe to the idea that Locke and Charley were being manipulated by different forces, hence their tendancies towards animosity, it does lead one to conclude that neither of those guys (Jacob or MiB) are very nice dudes. One leads Locke to a point that ends in Boone getting killed. The other tries to lead Charlie to drown Aaron. Maybe...

But who knows? Maybe it is all the same guy doing the manipulating. Regardless, I can't think of an alternative outcome to all of Charlie's Aaron obsessions that would end in a possitive conclusion.

When Locke punched Charlie in the face, if he was at that point the same man we saw in this last season, that would seem to indicate Charlie was playing the opposite role.

Whatever is going on, Aaron is either very important or symbolically refers to someone else who is very important. I'm also struck by the DVD commentary where J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindeloff went around and around about how Claire was right or not in her predication about Aaron being a boy...and ended up finally concluding she was wrong! Say what?:confused:

Edit to add:
And remember, Shannon asked Claire if she knew what it was. Alien/faerie/daemon baby much?

Dangerous if she doesn't raise him? (we'd have to believe malkin was telling the truth) or Dangerous if she does raise him? (we'd have to believe Malkin was lying to her in order for Claire and Aaron to fall into MiB's grasp)


Well, here's the transcript:

RICHARD MALKIN:, No, no. I saw something -- sort of a blurry thing.
CLAIRE: And blurry's bad?

RICHARD MALKIN: Blurry's bad. That's why I stopped the reading. Are you sure you want to go on now?

CLAIRE: Yes, please.

RICHARD MALKIN: I can tell you... this is important.

CLAIRE: Okay.

RICHARD MALKIN: It is crucial that you yourself raise this child.

CLAIRE: You mean with Thomas? Is he --

RICHARD MALKIN: The father of the child will play no part in its life, nor yours.

CLAIRE: So, what exactly are you saying?

RICHARD MALKIN: This child parented by anyone else, anyone other than you ... danger surrounds this baby.

CLAIRE: Danger?

RICHARD MALKIN: Your nature, your spirit, your goodness must be an influence in the development of this child.

I guess it's the "must be an influence" part that suggests to me that Aaron is ambiguously powerful/important and Claire is "crucial" for influencing the scales to tip a certain way.

"...her spirit..."

Interesting. I dont' think she's dead, but it's always cool to go back and read double, triple meanings into things.

Blurry's bad. And it sounds like Malkin's refering to blurry being bad for the the baby, because he wants Claire to protect him (if, again, we can believe Malking).

I really hope the Claire/Aaron arc pays off in some way. Eko's story about Aaron and Moses, about Aaron speaking on Moses behalf, because moses had difficulty speaking, is the only indication of any importance Aaron might have, if that is indeed a connection.

Could Aaron be the replacement Jacob? Or a replacement Richard? Will we even see him again next year?

"...her spirit..."

Interesting. I dont' think she's dead, but it's always cool to go back and read double, triple meanings into things

Heh! :) Her spirit! That is indeed rather open-ended and could have more meanings, yes? Hee.

Blurry's bad. And it sounds like Malkin's refering to blurry being bad for the the baby, because he wants Claire to protect him (if, again, we can believe Malking).

Honestly, fellas, I can't wrap my head around the Aussie psychic. With these particular sorts of early Lost characters, I think of the old prospector from Cannibal!: The Musical ("Yer DOOOMED! Yer all doomed. Deeewwwmed"). Malkin was too mysterious-doom for me, much like Hurley's number-and-doom-spouting friend in the asylum and number-and doom-spouting-friend's military partner's doom-spouting widow. They're more atmosphere than an actual cryptic foreshadowing. I guess I'm skeptical that there are clues with these creepy characters since I'm still disappointed about Libby's story-line being abandoned. And I'm also disappointed that the numbers' story seems to be abandoned, come to think of it.

So: That being said, it's very intriguing and I'd love to hear some hypotheses! I really can't put it together what the psychic's role could be once you factor in these shadow-of-the-statue people on top of Jacob, MiB, Dharma, Hanso's Dharma, the Others-as-led-by-Ben and the Others-as-led-by-Richard. There are a ton of conspiracies moving around. Malkin's motivation also seems tied up to whatever cosmic or human strategy there was to 815 crashing. Fate or conspiracy? Why would he lie to make sure Claire was on the plane? .

Will we even see [Aaron] again next year?

Oh my, I would think so. Or, I hope so. Claire has been on the back-burner all season, it seems. Her story is simmering to get a good flavor before getting dumped into the big pot. Her presence/story-line has remained afloat: We saw her mother again and Kate's episodes were as much about Aaron as they were about Kate, IMO.

But I absolutely have no clue how a story involving Aaron, Claire and the prediction could all get set off. But I hope I get to watch it.

. (it's "danger surrounds this child", btw)
.

Thanks for the correction.

I can't wait to find out more about Claire and Aaron's storyline. I spent all of Season Five yelling, "But where the hell is Claire!!!"

Thanks for the correction.

I can't wait to find out more about Claire and Aaron's storyline. I spent all of Season Five yelling, "But where the hell is Claire!!!"

Me too.

The only ship I had a chance of boarding was the Charlie/Claire one/ (Clairlie?:shrug:
:biggrin:)

I thought they were going to atleast give a few minute tease of Claire in the last few episodes of the season, to sort of re-introduce her to the people that may have forgotten she's suppose to come back next year. And as an introdruction to what that return might be.

There wasn't even much mention of her, not by Jack or Kate or by Sawyer on island, who I thought they had set up nicely as being her "big brother" and who seemed to feel responsible for losing her. There were no search parties for her, as there were for Locke. They weren't mentioned if there were anyway.

honestly, I didn't read through the whole feed, but I havent even thought of Aaron since he was given to his grandmother!!!

I really missed Claire last season and I can't wait to see her again. I really do hope something amazing happens with her. And I really hope you guys are right and Aaron is going to play a part in how things turn out.

Even if Aaron's importance is relayed through Claire's importance. A scenerio that brings Aaron as we last saw him, back into the fold believably, is a little tough with him being off island now, though it could be done. I'd be happy if we got word about him at least.

Which is what I thought they could have doen through out five with Claire. Even with out an appearance by Emile De Ravin, there could have been a bit more mention of her I think.

Anyway I always had expectations for Claire's story line, I hope some of them are met.

That Claire was kept on the island and Aaron allowed to leave, when a seemingly sinister CS in Boots comes strolling out the jungle, makes me think that Claire's importance may be greater to the story we'll see unfold. Aaron may have importance in a sense that's alluded to but not shown.

How much acting can they expect to get out of a four year old? I think we'll learn Aaron's importance by learning what Claire's is.

It's tough to guess who's thrall she's fallen under because it depends on the interpretation of what Malkin told her. Jack is important to the island and events that take place there, so I think Claire will be too.

Is Aaron being off island good or bad? Tough call.

Is it possible that Jacob sent Not!Christian as an emissary of sorts to separate Claire and Aaron in order to protect both of them?

Maybe Jacob foresaw that the only way to protect Aaron in the short-term was to get him off the island and back to the mainland under Kate's custody? So he and any of his island allies could place their full energy behind protecting Claire from the MiB.

Perhaps Jacob foresaw that if Claire and Aaron had remained on the island together, they both would have fallen victim to MiB? So separating them for a short period of time was, somehow, a necessary evil. Aaron needed the time on the mainland to prepare him for his eventual return to the island and the forthcoming battle against darker forces.

AS far as manipulating goes, so far we have seen Jacob touch people on the hand, shoulder, etc as if picking his players, and saying stuff directly to ther faces... No manipulation, straight forward talking, most notably with Hurley.
BSG/Man #2 whatever, has directly manipulated. BEN!
We have seen no other evidence of manipulation, maybe Sun/Frank to a degree, but he used Lockes image to maniplate Ben and the others into getting him in to see Jacob so that he could get Ben to kill him. He as much as said that he would have had to convince Ben to do it, if Ben hadnt told him he would do whatever Locke told him to do. Does that senence make sense...:ohwell:???) As it happensI think that exact moment is the bit that proves fake Locke isnt Smokey as some people have suggested.
He seems fairly surprised at Bens revelation, and quite pleased that he wont have to convince Ben to kill Jacob...
If he had been the one doing the threatening, then he would have known... Wouldnt he?!?

Anyone ever think that all the visions telling people not to bring Aaron back to the island was to protect him from MIB and being a vessel like what happened to Locke?

Seemingly, Aaron would have had to have been dead to be used as a vessel like Locke (and possibly Christian).

The off island dreams and the you're not suppose to raise him talk could have been refereing to Aaron, but it could have been refering to Locke as well. Think raise, as in raise from the dead. I don't know which they were intending, but the language works both ways.

And if the Christian Shepherd that seperated Claire from Aaron is actually shown to be MiB or a tool he uses, then by his own doing MiB got Aaron off of the island. If the man in black needed him, he would have kept him I think.

'Course, we don't know if CS is a tool for MiB or what. It could still be Aaron's wanted by the apparent dark island force.

I always thought "Raised by Another" could have been the psychic's mistaken interpretation of his hearing "Raised by an Other."

And his "Blurry" talk has to be related somehow to the blurry figure connected to Claire, Jack, and Christian, on the "Lost Connections" video, doesn't it?