Ben admits that he lied the whole time and never met Jacob.

So, how do we explain the fact the he promised Juliet that Jacob would heal her sister? Was this a lie, and Jacob took care of it anyway? I've considered that Jacob was sending message through Alpert, but this doesn't make sense as it seems clear that Richard was unaware that Ben had never met Jacob. Are there anymore instances of Ben making promises on Jacob's behalf that were carried out somehow?

I always felt that Ben had lied about her sister getting ill again. It's simple to pretend she is ill, then show her "healed". Juliet never had 100% proof that her sister was actually ill.

No, Ben never talked to or saw Jacob. Any claims on his part was a lie, which as he said in this ep is "what he does." I'm sure Alpert had a hand in perpetuating the ruse as well.

No, Ben never talked to or saw Jacob. Any claims on his part was a lie, which as he said in this ep is "what he does." I'm sure Alpert had a hand in perpetuating the ruse as well.


I'm not disputing the fact that Ben never talked to or saw Jacob. I'm asking, if Ben wasn't in a position to promise that Jacob would heal Juliet's sister, how did that come to happen?

I'm curious as to why you think Alpert was in on the lie. What would he gain? As he said, they have a rigorous selection process for their leaders. Why would he agree to let someone lead that he knew was lying to everyone about having met Jacob, who Richard clearly had met. And how did Ben convince Richard that he really was communicating with Jacob?

It was stated within the show that Richard is the one who communicates with Jacob. I have no doubt that it is part of the leader position to listen to "the adviser" concerning Jacob's wishes.

The same is probably true with Eloise when she is leader. She probably doesn't communicate directly with Jacob either. Richard passes the messages along.

An earlier post deals with the sister question nicely.

I'm not disputing the fact that Ben never talked to or saw Jacob. I'm asking, if Ben wasn't in a position to promise that Jacob would heal Juliet's sister, how did that come to happen?

I'm curious as to why you think Alpert was in on the lie. What would he gain? As he said, they have a rigorous selection process for their leaders. Why would he agree to let someone lead that he knew was lying to everyone about having met Jacob, who Richard clearly had met. And how did Ben convince Richard that he really was communicating with Jacob?

Negative character traits aside, the fact remains-Ben was the Leader. What Alpert does and doesn't know remains a mystery. As for Juliet's sister-we have no idea how she was cured. Ben claimed Jacob, but realistically, it could have been any number of things.

It was stated within the show that Richard is the one who communicates with Jacob. I have no doubt that it is part of the leader position to listen to "the adviser" concerning Jacob's wishes.

The same is probably true with Eloise when she is leader. She probably doesn't communicate directly with Jacob either. Richard passes the messages along.

This was my original thought, but if this is true, why would Richard just stand there when Ben "agrees" to take Locke to see Jacob back in S03? If Richard was the one who did the communicating, then he'd know that Ben was in no position to take Locke to Jacob. Additionally, it wouldn't explain, as Ben pointed out in the Finale, why Richard would immediately agree to bring Locke to Jacob.

I don't remember it ever being explicitely stated that Richard was the only one who communicated with Jacob, and the evidence seems to point to the contrary, actually. Both Ben and Widmore have claimed authority with Richard by stating "Jacob wants it this way" or something to that effect. I realize that Richard used that line with Widmore too. That's part of where my confusion is coming from. Who speaks to Jacob, and how did Ben cover up the fact that he's never seen or talked to him?

An earlier post deals with the sister question nicely.

I agree that Ben could have lied about Juliet's sister getting sick again. But why? He had to know that it would prompt her to want to leave. Why raise the issue in the first place?

A few ideas keep floating through my head here. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world he did not exist". Also the idea of angels and fallen angels.

From what has been shown, Jacob could truly be viewed as an angel, appearing to people in their time of need or desperation, Kate, Locke, Hurley, Jack, etc.

What if Jacob's presence on the island was clearly understood by Richard and others, but Esau's was not? The cabin in the woods was inhabited by some creepy entity that Ben and others thought was Jacob but in all reality it was Esau?

Locke is dead, just as Christian is dead and Yemi is dead. The person who went to Jacob (FLocke) is not Locke, rather an incarnation of him most likely Esau who was released from his cabin by the breaking of the ash circle. We have seen many people who died on the island or were brought to the island already dead, walking and talking and interacting with other many times in many previous eps. Perhaps a big part of the loophole involves Locke's dead body actually making it to the island. Only one other person that we've seen die off-island is Christan and he clearly is being used in many ways, visible in Jacob's (Esau's) cabin... Hmmm.

Looking at the symbolism, Esau is dark haired and dark complected, Jacob blonde and fair. Jacob's behaviors of appearing to people in time of need fits the role of an angel. Even offered up Esau some fish! Esau's statements of envy and wanting to kill him clearly fit with the idea of a dark or fallen angel. Who else fits the description of a jealous, envious person? Ben.

Widmore sent mercenaries to capture/kill Ben because Widmore already knew that Esau was jockeying for control of Ben's actions as pawn to kill Jacob.

Ben was the one cajolling the Oceanic 6 to go back, including dead Locke. Whether Ben's actions in getting the 6 back and killing Jacob was explicitly Esau's direction or whether it was subtle reverse-con manipulation is what is really intriquing. At any rate, Ben will get nothing out of this, he has been fully illustrated as weak and suffering from several of the 7 deadly sins, ultimately killing out of jealousy and nothing more.

If you follow these ideas back to the fact that Widmore has wanted to kill Ben, I think we've just seen the big Ah-Ha switcheroo where Widmore and Jacob are really found to be on the GOOD side, and the bad twin (Esau) has been the manipulator and darker force at play.