I've been rewatching Lost and I'm noticing a number of clues popping up. Here's some; feel free to add your own:

Pilot Part 2:
LOCKE: Two players. Two sides. One is light … one is dark.Deus Ex Machina:
LOCKE: A game. It's my favorite game, actually. I used to play it with my brother. It's called Mouse Trap.

KID: How do you play?

LOCKE: Well, you start with all these parts off the board. And then, one by one, you build the trap - shoe, bucket, tub - piece by piece it all comes together. And then you wait 'til your opponent lands here on the old cheese wheel. And then if you set it up just right, you spring the trap.Fire + Water:
LIAM: [off camera] Come on, baby brother. You can't save us if you don't play.

MRS. PACE: Save us, Charlie. Save us.

[Charlie starts playing and we see a close up of his hands at the piano. We hear sounds of the ocean and as the camera zooms out Charlie is playing piano in the surf. We hear the sound of a baby crying and Charlie stops playing.]The Long Con:
[We see Hurley sitting by a fire reading a manuscript entitled "Bad Twin" by Gary Troup. Sayid enters carrying a pole and the radio.]

HURLEY: Hey, check this out. I found a manuscript in one of the suitcases. It's like a mystery book.

skipping ahead in the scene

SAYID: Radio waves at this frequency bounce off the ionosphere. They can travel thousands of miles. It could be coming from anywhere.

HURLEY: Or, any time. -- Just kidding, dudeThe Whole Truth:
[We see Gales reading in the armory. Jack enters.]


JACK: How is it?


GALE: [reading from the book] Men reject their prophets and slay them, but they love their martyrs and honor those whom they have slain. [to Jack] So what's the difference between a martyr and a prophet?


JACK: Either way, it sounds like you end up dead.edit: Also consider Locke's flashback in Deus Ex Machina: Locke meets his mother, Emily, for the first time. She tells him that he is special, that he was immaculately conceived. Later he finds out he has a father, Anthony Cooper. Cooper eventually gets Locke to willingly give up his kidney, only to find out it was a con. This parallels Locke's journey throughout the show. Locke was conned out of his identity, his life.

This is very cool. They're all really good! Excellent job on finding them.

This is very cool. They're all really good! Excellent job on finding them.

Thanks! I don't usually look that hard for connections, but while rewatching seasons 1 and 2 these things jumped out at me --Especially Ben's line in The Whole Truth. I couldn't believe it. I hit pause and ran to the computer to post on the forums :biggrin:

Thanks! I don't usually look that hard for connections, but while rewatching seasons 1 and 2 these things jumped out at me --Especially Ben's line in The Whole Truth. I couldn't believe it. I hit pause and ran to the computer to post on the forums :biggrin:
Very interesting finds! I replayed this season's episodes, and the thing that hit me the most, was how obvious it appeared the Locke (or NotLocke) was manipulating Ben during the episode that Ben pulls the plug on the water and waits for Smokey to come and judge him. It's really worth a rewatch. Every time Locke disappears, something happens or appears. As soon as Locke appears, the occurrence has just stopped or he cons Ben into doing something.

Something that struck me as creepy in light of the finale --

In Part 2 of the Pilot, when Walt was talking to John about the game board he had

LOCKE: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Archeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of ancient Mesopotamia. Five thousand years old. That's older than Jesus Christ.
WALT: Did they have dice and stuff?
LOCKE: [nods] Mhhm. But theirs weren't made of plastic. Their dice were made of bones.

At the time I took it was they made the dice out of pieces of bones but...what if he meant bones as in people?

There is a part in Par Avion that caught my eye when I re-watched it. Kate is talking to Danielle about her daughter:

ROUSSEAU: Your friend, Jack. Do you care about him?
KATE: Yes.
ROUSSEAU: Imagine sixteen years from now, you’re told he’s still alive, but in your heart, you know that he wouldn’t remember you, he wouldn’t know you. He wouldn’t even know that you ever cared about him. I haven’t asked you questions about my daughter, because I do not want to know the answers.

Not sure that the writers were "hinting" at anything, but it definitely made me think twice after contemplating the idea proposed in the season finale that after the Incident, none of these people will know each other ever existed.


Also on a completely unrelated note, I noticed this convo between Kate and Charlie in the Pilot Part 1:

KATE: May I ask you something?
CHARLIE: Me? I'd be thrilled. I've been waiting.
KATE: Have we ever met, anywhere?
CHARLIE: No, that would be unlikely.
KATE: Hum.
CHARLIE: I look familiar, though, right?
KATE: Yeah.

I don't know if this was a clue, or if my mind is just framing this scene that way now that I know the rest of the story.

IT WAS JUST ON SCIFI!!! i was about to write the same thing ...lol that scene seemed like an over the top clue knowing what we know now

Also on a completely unrelated note, I noticed this convo between Kate and Charlie in the Pilot Part 1:

KATE: May I ask you something?
CHARLIE: Me? I'd be thrilled. I've been waiting.
KATE: Have we ever met, anywhere?
CHARLIE: No, that would be unlikely.
KATE: Hum.
CHARLIE: I look familiar, though, right?
KATE: Yeah.

I don't know if this was a clue, or if my mind is just framing this scene that way now that I know the rest of the story.

That kind of goes along with this from White Rabbit when Kate thought Sawyer stole the water and she tackled him

SAWYER: Well, it's about time.
KATE: For what?
SAWYER: I made this birthday wish four years ago.

In response to HunkyHurley: lol yeah that's where I saw it too. I wasn't really paying attention and then I overheard Rousseau's line and my mind was boggled at how I had never analyzed it as an important line until now.

Also on a completely unrelated note, I noticed this convo between Kate and Charlie in the Pilot Part 1:

KATE: May I ask you something?
CHARLIE: Me? I'd be thrilled. I've been waiting.
KATE: Have we ever met, anywhere?
CHARLIE: No, that would be unlikely.
KATE: Hum.
CHARLIE: I look familiar, though, right?
KATE: Yeah.

I don't know if this was a clue, or if my mind is just framing this scene that way now that I know the rest of the story.

Stop thinking so much ;)
They were referring to him being in a major rock band.

that Saywer quote is interesting

SAWYER: Well, it's about time.
KATE: For what?
SAWYER: I made this birthday wish four years ago.

If Sawyer says this in 2004, do we have any information about what was happening in 2000?

Perchance 2000 is a time period that will be visited per the Jughead jump?

Just thinking out loud is all.

Pilot - first time we see Locke is when Kate looks at him from a distance, creepy music plays, he looks at her, smiles with the oragne slice in his mouth. Kate is creeped out.
(major foreshadowing?? seems like they had the notLocke twist planned from the beginning, but maybe they pushed it back 4 or 5 seasons? :biggrin:)


Expose, Locke: Things don't stay buried on this island

That kind of goes along with this from White Rabbit when Kate thought Sawyer stole the water and she tackled him
Quote:
SAWYER: Well, it's about time.
KATE: For what?
SAWYER: I made this birthday wish four years ago.


Really? That's just Sawyer making a joke, and what could possibly have happened in 2000? I don't think that works at all.
The rest of these are great though.

Really? That's just Sawyer making a joke, and what could possibly have happened in 2000? I don't think that works at all.
The rest of these are great though.

The first time I saw that ep, I was very puzzled by that line from Sawyer. If it's just a joke, I don't get it! I continue to puzzle over it.

Pilot - first time we see Locke is when Kate looks at him from a distance, creepy music plays, he looks at her, smiles with the oragne slice in his mouth. Kate is creeped out.
(major foreshadowing?? seems like they had the notLocke twist planned from the beginning, but maybe they pushed it back 4 or 5 seasons? )
Expose, Locke: Things don't stay buried on this island


This really struck me about Locke through the whole episode and first season... he seems to be the same as he was towards the end of season five when he was "revived" on the island... I feel like we are seeing Locke as he was in the first season?

i've been rewatching myself. thanks all for the clues you found, very insightful thread.

This really struck me about Locke through the whole episode and first season... he seems to be the same as he was towards the end of season five when he was "revived" on the island... I feel like we are seeing Locke as he was in the first season?
Yes! This is what I felt like while watching Locke this season too! I'm not sure what it means, or even if it means anything at all. Maybe the writers kind of knew where Locke's story was headed even then, but then pulled back from it when they realized they'd have more seasons to tell it in. And so we got the more unsure and "stumbling" Locke for a while. Or maybe it means something else. ;) But yes, I definitely felt like S5 Locke was a lot like S1 Locke.

This really struck me about Locke through the whole episode and first season... he seems to be the same as he was towards the end of season five when he was "revived" on the island... I feel like we are seeing Locke as he was in the first season?

I feel the same way, especially after watching "Raised By Another". Claire's dream/nightmare where the runs into the jungle and Locke tells her "He was your responsibility but you gave him away. Now we all have to pay the price."

I've heard that he had one black eye and one white eye (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/3/37/Lockeyeblackwhite.jpg) but the scene is too dark for me to make that out.

You're right, he did have one black eye, and one light. Creepy! Foreshadowing Jacob vs. Esau?

You're right, he did have one black eye, and one light. Creepy! Foreshadowing Jacob vs. Esau?

I think Claire's dream has gone on a whole new level now. Locke having one black and one white eye may highlight the fact that he was a piece for both players. When the plane crashed he was healed by Jacob but then he failed in his mission to keep the losties on the island in order to fulfill their destiny. At that time, after Ben turned the wheel, Locke was used by Esau and became a piece on his side.

SAWYER: Well, it's about time.
KATE: For what?
SAWYER: I made this birthday wish four years ago.

If Sawyer says this in 2004, do we have any information about what was happening in 2000?

Perchance 2000 is a time period that will be visited per the Jughead jump?

Just thinking out loud is all.

What about 2003. 3 years in the DI and one year from the new jump in time!

What about 2003. 3 years in the DI and one year from the new jump in time!
Given that during the DI years, Sawyer has latched onto Juliette, I would doubt this line referring to that time period.

I have one to add. I tried to find the exact quote yesterday but couldn't find it. It's a conversation between Jack and Locke and I believe it's in Season 2. They're in the Swan Hatch and they're talking. I'll try to paraphrase it the best that I can:

Jack: I don't believe in destiny Locke.
Locke: You believe in destiny, you just don't know it yet.

OMG that seems to be major foreshadowing so early in the series!

I have one to add. I tried to find the exact quote yesterday but couldn't find it. It's a conversation between Jack and Locke and I believe it's in Season 2. They're in the Swan Hatch and they're talking. I'll try to paraphrase it the best that I can:

Jack: I don't believe in destiny Locke.
Locke: You believe in destiny, you just don't know it yet.

OMG that seems to be major foreshadowing so early in the series!


It was in Season 1 finale, on their way to blow up the hatch.

JACK: I don't believe in destiny.
LOCKE: Yes you do! You just don't know it yet!

I think Claire's dream has gone on a whole new level now. Locke having one black and one white eye may highlight the fact that he was a piece for both players. When the plane crashed he was healed by Jacob but then he failed in his mission to keep the losties on the island in order to fulfill their destiny. At that time, after Ben turned the wheel, Locke was used by Esau and became a piece on his side.

Nice call, i completely agree.

Jacob had plans for Locke, but Esau turned the tables. (However in the end, i think Esau was playing into Jacob's hands because Jacob planned to sacrifice himself).

This is what makes things tricky to figure out... whenever Locke says "the Island" wants this or that, we don't know if it's Jacob or Esau he's speaking of??

Nice call, i completely agree.

Jacob had plans for Locke, but Esau turned the tables. (However in the end, i think Esau was playing into Jacob's hands because Jacob planned to sacrifice himself).

This is what makes things tricky to figure out... whenever Locke says "the Island" wants this or that, we don't know if it's Jacob or Esau he's speaking of??


In my opinion, when Locke said that the Island demanded things to be done in a certain way it was really the voice of Jacob. However, this changed after his death when Esau took over. By the way, I agree with you. Esau is playing with the rules Jacob had imposed as of now. Jacob definitely wanted to die.

nice posts guys! I'll add some more:

Lockdown:
JACK: So, what's done is done? LOCKE: That's right.?:
YEMI: What is done is done.The Numbers:
MARTHA: You make your own luck, Mr. Reyes. Don't blame it on the damn numbers. You're looking for an excuse that doesn't exist.I think the numbers quote will end up being significant to the overall show. The numbers = WHH, fate I think Hurley overcoming his "curse" will play a big part in the end. Just a theory :cool:

edit: I think Claire's dream has gone on a whole new level now. Locke having one black and one white eye may highlight the fact that he was a piece for both players.

I hadn't thought of that. I like it!

nice posts guys! I'll add some more:

Lockdown:
?:
The Numbers:


I think the numbers quote will end up being significant to the overall show. The numbers = WHH, fate I think Hurley overcoming his "curse" will play a big part in the end. Just a thoery :cool:


I am one of those who consider Hurley as a big player in the 'game' of the finale.;)

After re-watching the first 7 episodes of season 1 so far, I am definitely a fan of the theory that Locke was "possessed" by MiB/Jacob from the very beginning. There are several subtle clues hinted at in the first season. Here are just a couple I have noticed:

Pilot: Locke smiling with the orange peel in his mouth..not really a clue, but definitely creepy and it seems like he knows more than anybody..There are several scenes in the Pilot that depict Locke as being creepy and devious from the get-go.

From White Rabbit:
KATE: I can go into the jungle, try to find some fresh water.
SAYID: You're not going alone.
LOCKE: When the others find out the water's gone it's going to get ugly. And when they find out that someone pinched it, it's going to get uglier. I'll go. Camp needs you two here, especially with the doctor gone. And besides, I know where to look.

From House of the Rising Sun:
CHARLIE: Don't talk to me like you know something about me.
LOCKE: I know a lot more about pain than you think. I don't envy what you're facing. But I want to help. [Charlie walks away]. Do you want your guitar?
[Charlie turns and comes back.]
LOCKE: More than your drug?
CHARLIE: More than you know.
LOCKE: What I know is that this island might just give you what you're looking for, but you have to give the island something.

That last quote makes me think that Locke got his legs back again in exchange for his body being used by MiB/Jacob. Anyway, these are just little things that make me think about it. If you re-watch the beginning of season 1, there is just an aura about Locke that he doesn't have in season 2-4.

i don't know if this is actually a clue, but i just got done watching Outlaws and when sawyer is in the bar with christian and they introduce themselves, christian asks him what's eating him and he says he has something to take care of (killing his so-called sawyer) and christian says what're you waiting for? go. and sawyer goes and kills the wrong man, leading him to his guilt.

i find it funny that sawyer chickened out his first visit to frank, yet christian is the one to encourage him to do the dirty deed. yes, i know, christian didn't know what sawyer was doing, but he still is the one who got the ball rolling. so, is this foreshadowing how christian fits into the whole island deal? he is the one who told locke that he spoke for jacob and that he needed to turn the wheel. he is the one who told locke not to tell anyone that claire was with him. and he is the one who confronted locke in the orchid and told him to turn the wheel when the wheel was already lit and ready to go.

just what is christian?

just what is christian?

If Locke was a pawn in the game all along, why not Christian too? Perhaps he, like Locke, was under the control/influence of Jacob or MiB prior to his death in light of both men dying just in time to be shipped on THE flight that would take them to the island.

Hi everyone! I find all the comments about Season 1 Locke interesting because I do wonder, had they been forced to tell the entire show's story in one season, the clues leading up to what was basically the reveal in the end of Season 5 (which, in a single season, would've presumably happened perhaps 2 episodes away from the finale?) would have to be laid out over the course of the season. Unfortunately my Season 1 set was stolen (:mad::frown::mad::frown::mad:) so I can't take a look for myself yet, but I'm really curious to know if anybody can figure out at what point they 'backed off' Locke in order to make him more human (I assume the whole hatch plot? that certainly stalled his 'growth' for a while) ..

I think the first real chink in Locke's armor was Boone's death. And then yes, the whole push the button/not push the button in S2 slowed him down as well. It will be really interesting to see whether Locke was influenced/possessed by Jacob or his nemesis during those early days, or if something else was going on.

As I continue to re-watch the first season, I'll let you know when Locke really becomes conflicted and seemingly more "human." Off the top of my head, I believe it is when he starts feeling the numbness in his legs again when him and Boone try to use the trebuchet to open the hatch and it fails. That whole episode is centered on Locke and his paralysis conflict. The episode is 1x19 Deus Ex Machina, I believe.

As I continue to re-watch the first season, I'll let you know when Locke really becomes conflicted and seemingly more "human." Off the top of my head, I believe it is when he starts feeling the numbness in his legs again when him and Boone try to use the trebuchet to open the hatch and it fails. That whole episode is centered on Locke and his paralysis conflict. The episode is 1x19 Deus Ex Machina, I believe.

I believe you are correct! I think that is a very important episode.

My theory is that Man in Black didn't want Locke to open the Swan hatch. Notice how when they're bringing the dynamite back from the Black Rock the monster attacks Locke.

LOCKE: What I know is that this island might just give you what you're looking for, but you have to give the island something.

That last quote makes me think that Locke got his legs back again in exchange for his body being used by MiB/Jacob. Anyway, these are just little things that make me think about it. If you re-watch the beginning of season 1, there is just an aura about Locke that he doesn't have in season 2-4.
S5 and S1 Locke are so much alike - it was great seeing him charge through the jungle leaving Ben and Richard questioning what was going on. I've tried to think what made Locke wimp out in S2-3-4. It seems like Ben is the catalyst for Locke's pathetic transformation. At first, Locke was all for beating up Ben to get answers - it was Jack who forced Locke to open the door to stop Sayid. But after that, Ben played his mind games and used Locke's insecurities to control him. So was this a dual personality going on? Real Locke as a box-company clerk on the Island was manipulated for seasons by Ben so that Man in Black could set up his loophole? (I always felt like S1 was real Locke but considering his off-Island life, I'd guess that S1 & S5 are more consistent with this Man in Black character).

From House of the Rising Sun:
CHARLIE: Don't talk to me like you know something about me.
LOCKE: I know a lot more about pain than you think. I don't envy what you're facing. But I want to help. [Charlie walks away]. Do you want your guitar?
[Charlie turns and comes back.]
LOCKE: More than your drug?
CHARLIE: More than you know.
LOCKE: What I know is that this island might just give you what you're looking for, but you have to give the island something.

That last quote makes me think that Locke got his legs back again in exchange for his body being used by MiB/Jacob. Anyway, these are just little things that make me think about it. If you re-watch the beginning of season 1, there is just an aura about Locke that he doesn't have in season 2-4.

Very, very interesting line..... "this island might just give you what you're looking for, but you have to give the island something"
I wonder if that's somehow going to end up applying to everyone?

This thread is awesome, btw! Now you've all convince me to join the great Lost re-watch during the hiatus.....

LOCKE: A game. It's my favorite game, actually. I used to play it with my brother. It's called Mouse Trap.

Do we know anything about Locke's brother? Maybe Jacob and other guy are brothers, and Locke has been possessed the whole time. So, basically Jacob and other guy are playing one big game of mouse trap.

From Hearts and Minds (S1)

Locke is sitting on the beach watching the waves when Jack approaches him.
Jack: Any ships?
Locke: Not yet. But I'm -- patient.
Jack: Mind if I join you? It's been awhile since you and I talked, John.



This reminded me instantly of Jacob and MiB at the beginnning of The Incident.

This topic is a great idea....i started to rewatch season 1 and something caught my attention in the pilot....Jack told Kate he took pilot lessons but it wasn't his idea.....suggesting it was Christian who insisted for that....my idea is that Christian was possibly acting the same way Eloise did with Dan because he knew what was going to happen to Jack.

This topic is a great idea....i started to rewatch season 1 and something caught my attention in the pilot....Jack told Kate he took pilot lessons but it wasn't his idea.....suggesting it was Christian who insisted for that....my idea is that Christian was possibly acting the same way Eloise did with Dan because he knew what was going to happen to Jack.

He said it "wasn't for me" but it still may have been his dad's idea. If this is true, perhaps Eloise contacted Christian and told him about his son meeting her when she was younger. She maybe could have tried to convince him by showing him Daniel's journal. I don't know though, maybe we're reading too much into what Jack told Kate about flying lessons. :JC_thinking:

i thnk locke changed his attitude after the hatch imploded. remember when he awoke, he couldn't talk and then he went into the "sweat" tent and came out to look for eko? after he saved eko from the bear, he could talk again. something happened to him there. right before the hatch imploded, he said, "i was wrong".

There is so much talk about fate, destiny, belief, etc in the first season. And I forgot how creepy Locke was in the first season. But I liked him anyway. Mostly because he annoyed Jack....

SAWYER: Well, it's about time.
KATE: For what?
SAWYER: I made this birthday wish four years ago.

If Sawyer says this in 2004, do we have any information about what was happening in 2000?

Not sure if I remember this correctly but didn't we see Kate's mother serve Sawyer a piece of pie at her diner? Could that have been in 2000?


That last quote makes me think that Locke got his legs back again in exchange for his body being used by MiB/Jacob.

What would Rose have given back in exchange for becoming cancer-free?

"The dice are made of bones" - Locke on Backgammon.

Interesting sequence from Pilot, part 1; Vincent quietly watching Jack Kate and Charlie's trek from cover... then it starts to rain... shot of Locke embracing the storm... then, Charlie: "guys, is this normal? This day turns into night, end of the world type weather?" Then a smokey attack. Smokey disappears, Jack resurfaces, rain stops.

In 01x13 Hearts and Minds, Jack and Locke have a talk on the beach. They are sitting next to each other in almost the exact same way Jacob and MiB sit by each other in The Incident:

[Back at the beach we see Locke looking out toward sea. Jack approaches.]
JACK: Any ships?
LOCKE: Not yet. But I'm -- patient.
JACK: Mind if I join you? It's been awhile since you and I talked, John.
LOCKE: Well, you're a busy man.

If you watch this scene, it is eerily similar to the Jacob/MiB scene in the Incident.

Awesom thread. I am also rewatching the first season, and it is great how everything is coming together now. Locke is so creepy in season one.

Something that struck me as creepy in light of the finale --

In Part 2 of the Pilot, when Walt was talking to John about the game board he had

.

At the time I took it was they made the dice out of pieces of bones but...what if he meant bones as in people?

VERY interesting! It certainly seems to fit into the Jacob vs Esau theme.

Just had a thought, what if during the conversation between Sawyer and Christian in the bar in Austrailia, Christian was already dead and being possessed or used or whatever by either Jacob or Nameless McLoophole?

Just a thought I had after re-watching that scene and reading this thread.

Any takers? debunkers? :)

there is something about the dead on the island. I was watching some of those Best Of Lost clips, and in the one with Eko's death, his brother comes to him, Eko tells him he has no sins to confess ect., and then the brother tells him, "You talk to me as if I was your brother" Then he walks off and Eko follows him, then the smoke monster gets him. It seems just about everyone that dies on the island, comes back, as someone else. Charlie came to Hurley, but we didnt get enough time with Charlie to see if he was acting different. Locke being possessed, Eko's brother. and somewhere someone brought up the theory of christian not being a good character. I dont know, just thinking out loud

there is something about the dead on the island. I was watching some of those Best Of Lost clips, and in the one with Eko's death, his brother comes to him, Eko tells him he has no sins to confess ect., and then the brother tells him, "You talk to me as if I was your brother" Then he walks off and Eko follows him, then the smoke monster gets him. It seems just about everyone that dies on the island, comes back, as someone else. Charlie came to Hurley, but we didnt get enough time with Charlie to see if he was acting different. Locke being possessed, Eko's brother. and somewhere someone brought up the theory of christian not being a good character. I dont know, just thinking out loud

Naomi did tell Miles there are "a number of deceased individuals residing on the island"...

In 01x13 Hearts and Minds, Jack and Locke have a talk on the beach. They are sitting next to each other in almost the exact same way Jacob and MiB sit by each other in The Incident:

[Back at the beach we see Locke looking out toward sea. Jack approaches.]
JACK: Any ships?
LOCKE: Not yet. But I'm -- patient.
JACK: Mind if I join you? It's been awhile since you and I talked, John.
LOCKE: Well, you're a busy man.

If you watch this scene, it is eerily similar to the Jacob/MiB scene in the Incident.

Awesome

I watched early parts of Season 3 last week, and one line that stuck in my mind was in the episode where John goes to save Eko from the polar bear. Boone appears in his sweat lodge vision and says he needs John's help (or something along those lines) in order to "bring the family back together".

Is there more to this line than meets the eye on first viewing? Jacob and MiB related somehow?

A couple more things that I've noticed during Season 1. They both support the theory that Jacob was possessing Locke during parts of season 1:

From 01x18 "Numbers"

CLAIRE: Thanks, for this -- giving me something to do. I'm tired of trying to remember what happened to me out there.
LOCKE: How's that coming? Your memory?
CLAIRE: Bits and pieces here and there. Nothing that makes any real sense.
LOCKE: Well, maybe I can help. I'm good at putting bits and pieces together.

This exchange is interesting and when Locke says the part about bits and pieces, he has that creepy smirk on his face. Makes me think he is talking about bringing all of the losties to the island.

From 01x22 "Born to Run"

LOCKE: Yep. Something you want to tell me, Walt?
WALT: I didn't do it.
LOCKE: Didn't do what?
WALT: I heard Jack. He thinks somebody got my dad sick. And I didn't do it.
LOCKE: You think because I know you burned the first raft that I'd think you made your dad sick? [Walt nods.] We're friends, Walt. I didn't tell on you before and I'm not going to tell on you now. [He puts his hand on Walt's wrist.] And I know you would never do anything to hurt your dad.
[Walt looks down at Locke's hand and pulls his arm away.]
LOCKE: What's the matter?
WALT: Don't open it.
LOCKE: What'd you say?
WALT: Don't open it, Mr. Locke. Don't open that thing.
LOCKE: What? What thing?
WALT: Just don't open it.

In this scene everything is fine until Locke touches Walt's arm, and then Walt freaks out. He is also knelt down and talking in the same kind of manner that Jacob did when Jacob was off the island "touching" the losties. I'm not sure what this scene means, but it seems important.

[Walt looks down at Locke's hand and pulls his arm away.]
LOCKE: What's the matter?
WALT: Don't open it.
LOCKE: What'd you say?
WALT: Don't open it, Mr. Locke. Don't open that thing.
LOCKE: What? What thing?
WALT: Just don't open it.

In this scene everything is fine until Locke touches Walt's arm, and then Walt freaks out. He is also knelt down and talking in the same kind of manner that Jacob did when Jacob was off the island "touching" the losties. I'm not sure what this scene means, but it seems important.

I just re-watched this episode and I noticed that as well. As soon as Walt touches Locke, he gets weird and says don't open that thing. Very big foreshadowing, but just about the hatch plot-line, IMO.

If Jacob and the man in black are related, it further supports the correlation with the biblical story of Jacob and Esau.

I think Claire's dream has gone on a whole new level now. Locke having one black and one white eye may highlight the fact that he was a piece for both players.
I think this is spot on. Locke was obviously between cross purposes from Deus Ex Machina on. Especially being pulled between the Swan hatch and the Pearl. Which I still can't figure out why. What was the point of drawing him to the Pearl for either Jacob or MiB?


But I think one key Locke moment happened very early on. In Walkabout when he had his encounter with (a? the?) monster. This is a key episode to watch for a Locke change. And it actually helps to skip the flashbacks for one viewing of it.

When Locke, Kate, and Michael go out for their hunt, Locke is sort of nerdish. He's like a book smart on hunting guy who's bought all the right clothes, but he doesn't quite act like he's done it before. He knows the signs, but you just don't get the sense that he's accustomed to what he's trying to do.

Then they have their run in with the boar, Michael gets wounded, John marches off alone after calling Kate Helen. "Don't tell me what I can't do".

Now here's the important part. It's just a few seconds of footage. Locke is hiking along twirling his knife like he's Conan (which is kind of a noobish thing to do) and he hears a boar in the brush. He takes a few steps towards it (what's he going to do? tackle it?) and then we hear monster sounds. And the boar squeels as if caught. **Listen to these few seconds a couple times.** John stops in his tracks and looks up as if frightened and amazed at the same time.


I don't think John killed that first boar. I think the monster did. And I think his encounter with the monster changed him somehow because after that he started knowing exactly how to help the people around him.

Alot of people want to attribute his ability to predict the weather to some external power or extraordinary senses, which sort of makes me sad. Modern man has lost so much practical knowledge when it comes to outdoor life that old skills are now seemingly magic to most. You can forcast weather just by listening to birds sing or noting changes in your surroundings. And that follows with the book smart, weebalo Locke. It shouldn't be all that impressive.

What's impressive is his ability to tell what each person around him needs. At least for the semi-antisocial and/or social skills stunted Locke that we were shown. He was sort of socially clumsy (what the orange peel and flashbacks was supposed to show us) prior to the meeting with the "bright light", and a very confident and socially wise man in regards to the needs of others after.

But I think one key Locke moment happened very early on. In Walkabout when he had his encounter with (a? the?) monster. This is a key episode to watch for a Locke change.

Locke is hiking along twirling his knife like he's Conan (which is kind of a noobish thing to do) and he hears a boar in the brush. He takes a few steps towards it (what's he going to do? tackle it?) and then we hear monster sounds. And the boar squeels as if caught. **Listen to these few seconds a couple times.** John stops in his tracks and looks up as if frightened and amazed at the same time.


I don't think John killed that first boar. I think the monster did. And I think his encounter with the monster changed him somehow because after that he started knowing exactly how to help the people around him.

I agree that the monster killed the boar. I believe it was an offering of sorts, and you're right his demeanor changed after that scene.
_______________________________________________

I just watched Something Nice Back Home yesterday. I completely forgot about this conversation:

BERNARD: All right. Honey, I am sure Jack is gonna be okay. An appendectomy is just about the most common kind of surgery there is.
ROSE: That's not what I was thinking about. I was thinking, "Why did he get sick?"
BERNARD: Why? It's just--it's just bad luck.
ROSE: The day before we're all supposed to be rescued, the person that we count on the most suddenly comes down with a life-threatening condition, and you're chalking it up to bad luck?
BERNARD: Well, what are you saying, that--that Jack did something to offend the gods? People get sick, Rose.
ROSE: Not here. Here, they get better.Did Man in Black or Jacob make Jack sick?

I am also re-watching the first season and have to say it seems, tone wise, to be closer to season 5 then any other season. I've been catching a lot of the things you have all been talking about, and not other things so it's fun to read this. I just noticed this a couple of days ago when i watched the episode "Special". Claire had another dream along with the Locke with one white eye one black eye. It's never seen but it's mentioned in her diary.
CHARLIE: It's Claire's, her diary.
SAYID:You're reading her diary?
CHARLIE: Yeah, I know, I'm bloody scum. Just listen to this. "I had that weird dream again, the one with the black rock I can't get away from. I try to leave it but it won't let me."
SAYID: Black rock?
JACK: It's just dreams, Charlie.
CHARLIE: No, Sayid mentioned Black Rock before.
SAYID: The French woman mentioned something about her team returning from the Black Rock. The triangle on the map. Maybe it's the triangle on the map.

Seems to me that Claire was also a bigger player in this game all along. She has two dreams that seem to reveal she has a connection to the island or the island is interested in her. Is that why she was taken by TMIB? or Jacob? I guess we will find out next season!

^^^^ I caught that too, the bit about the Black Rock in Claire's diary. I agree that she's a bigger player in this game as you said. Same goes with Aaron.

Again from the episode Something Nice Back Home:

HURLEY: Well, yesterday, [Charlie] told me you were gonna be coming by. He wanted me to give you a message.
JACK: A message?
HURLEY: He made me write it down so I wouldn't mess it up. "You're not supposed to raise him, Jack." Does that make any sense?
JACK: No, that... doesn't make any sense.
HURLEY: Do you think he means Aaron?and here's one from Cabin Fever:
LOCKE: Claire?
CLAIRE: Hi, John.
LOCKE: What're you doing here?
CLAIRE: Don't worry. I'm fine. I'm with him.
LOCKE: Wh--where's the baby?
CHRISTIAN: The baby's where he's supposed to be, and that's not here. It's probably best that you don't tell anyone that you saw her

Wow, that almost sounds like Christian/this friend of Jacob's needed Aaron off the Island - either for his loophole plan to work or because of the war that's coming. I'm not sure why Aaron would be so special though - Ethan was not only born but conceived on the Island and he didn't amount to much in the end.

Ethan was not only born but conceived on the Island
Eh? How do you know that?

We saw Amy 3 years before she married Horace and then pregnant 3 years later, giving birth to Ethan --with no indication that she'd ever left the Island. I don't think we'll hear more of her story at this point. but I could be wrong

From "House of the Rising Sun":

MICHAEL: It's the watch. Mine broke and I found this in the wreckage, and I figured, hey, why let a $20,000 dollar watch go to waste which is ridiculous since time doesn't matter on a damn island.

This was without a doubt written with the time-travel element of the story in mind. There are tons of lines like this from the very beginning that have one meaning in the context of the present story and another in retrospect.

When Kate asks Charlie if they knew each other, I believe it also holds a double meaning.

All comments in this thread are awesome, thank you.
I also think that when in “Further Instructions” an unconscious Eko talks to Locke, he might have been impersonated by either Jacob or his rival, in order to put Locke in his right path. It would be just a continuation of the inspiration he received from the dream earlier in that episode, where Boone was being his guide. This is the exchange between Locke and Not-Eko:

LOCKE [to Eko who's unconscious]: I'm sorry. Sorry I ever doubted you. Sorry I gave up on my faith in the island. I messed up. Now our people are captured -- if I'd just listened to you -- if I'd just let you keep pushing the button. I could have gone with them, protected them. I could have saved them.
EKO: You can still protect them. You can still save them.
LOCKE: I don't even know where they are.
EKO: You will find them. After all, you are a hunter, John.

All comments in this thread are awesome, thank you.
I also think that when in “Further Instructions” an unconscious Eko talks to Locke, he might have been impersonated by either Jacob or his rival, in order to put Locke in his right path. It would be just a continuation of the inspiration he received from the dream earlier in that episode, where Boone was being his guide. This is the exchange between Locke and Not-Eko:

LOCKE [to Eko who's unconscious]: I'm sorry. Sorry I ever doubted you. Sorry I gave up on my faith in the island. I messed up. Now our people are captured -- if I'd just listened to you -- if I'd just let you keep pushing the button. I could have gone with them, protected them. I could have saved them.
EKO: You can still protect them. You can still save them.
LOCKE: I don't even know where they are.
EKO: You will find them. After all, you are a hunter, John.


Nice catch! I tend to believe, it was Jacob who communicated with Locke. He tried to renew his faith and help Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

How about in S1 when Jack say's,"I won't let him do it again."
while running after Eathan.At first I thought he ment his dad,because of the flashback
but upon rewatching I think he did mean Eathan
and in the same eppy Locke tells Boone it's gonna rain in 1 min
also he seems to lead Boone to The Hatch

Possibly they have some memory or knowledge of events
I have been getting a wierd feeling about Rose and Bernard...1 white,1 black
Possibly possed by Jacob and MiB?
also Locke makes me wonder about who is really in charge of his actions at times

From Hearts and Minds (S1)

Locke is sitting on the beach watching the waves when Jack approaches him.
Jack: Any ships?
Locke: Not yet. But I'm -- patient.
Jack: Mind if I join you? It's been awhile since you and I talked, John.



This reminded me instantly of Jacob and MiB at the beginnning of The Incident.


That is unbelievable! I've always thought Jack and Jacob were parallel (mainly b/c of their names) but this seems pretty indicative of a direct Lock and MIB parallel as well. The question now is this : Are they parallels or are they the same story?

That is unbelievable! I've always thought Jack and Jacob were parallel (mainly b/c of their names) but this seems pretty indicative of a direct Lock and MIB parallel as well. The question now is this : Are they parallels or are they the same story?
Well, we are thinking that Jack is parallel to Jacob because they are the "good guys" and Locke and MIB are the "bad guys" but we don't know if this is true. We can think that Jack is a better person than Locke but we don't anything about Jacob and MIB. MIB killed Jacob, that's true, but we don't know why he did it. Conclusion: I don't know, but the parallelism don't have to be like most people think.

From Deus Ex Machina:

LOCKE: [glancing at a red folder Frainey has] What about my father?
FRAINEY: Here's the thing -- your mother sought you out, so she's fair game. But this guy—maybe he doesn't even know you exist. I've done this enough times to know this stuff isn't meant to be, even though it may feel that way. But this probably won't have a happy ending. So, do you want it, or not?
LOCKE: I want it.
It's what sets Locke on this course, arguably. Perhaps the "mouse trap" in this episode wasn't the trap set by Cooper. As others have said here, perhaps it's the trap set by Jacob or MiB.

I'd like to throw something into the mix.

Lost Missing Pieces #13 "And so it begins".

Christian talks to Vincent like he's a human, telling him "I need to you to go find my son. He's over there in that bamboo forest, unconscious. I need you to go wake him up. He has work to do".

Bam, Jack's eye opens as the very first thing we see on season 1.

I know that it wasn't part of the show, but it was introduced a couple seasons ago and was later put on the season 4 Blu Ray (I think, too lazy to go look).

I just wanted to toss that out there because of the few comments from people about who and what Christian is.
100%
I just went through all of the Missing Pieces and every single one of them has some sort of reference to time. HAHA!

Totally missed that when they were pumping them out after season 3.

Well, we are thinking that Jack is parallel to Jacob because they are the "good guys" and Locke and MIB are the "bad guys" but we don't know if this is true. We can think that Jack is a better person than Locke but we don't anything about Jacob and MIB. MIB killed Jacob, that's true, but we don't know why he did it. Conclusion: I don't know, but the parallelism don't have to be like most people think.

I agree that the parallels are not as they seem. In re-watching some of the episodes, I'm less convinced that the traditional view is correct; that of Jack/Jacob/Good vs. Lock/MiB/Evil. I think right now I'm leaning toward Jack/Jacob/Evil/ vs. Lock/MiB/Good, but that seems counter-intuitive with the general connotations of black and white.

I always thought that Jacob/MiB were two sides of the same coin.Neither one is good or bad they are just different. With different outlooks on the end. Jacobs' little touches are not all that benign. Just a bit more subtle than hijacking a body.

"Confidence Man" transcript via lostpedia

[We see Sawyer at a restaurant with Jess and her husband, David.]
SAWYER: I'm not sure this is such a good idea.
JESS: Why not?
SAWYER: Because business between friends is always a little sticky. I don't know you well, but I know your wife. Working with her at the auto dealership, I'm just not sure I'm comfortable.
DAVID: Louisiana will invest two thirds of the drilling costs. What is this? A loophole?





-Loophole? A loophole?! Season 1, episode 8. It was right there and we all missed it.
Just kidding.

This thread's very interesting.

Upon rewatching season 2, there's this amazing Hurley moment in Lockdown, which gets a whole new meaning after The Incident:

HURLEY: Well, that would, like, assume that anyone actually tells me anything. Maybe if I were in the loop I could be more helpful.
JACK: There is no loop, Hurley.
CLAIRE: [entering with Aaron] Excuse me, Jack. He's been really hot and fussy. Do you mind having a look at him?
JACK: Yeah, sure, sure.
HURLEY: [exiting] Loop, dude, loop.



Transcript from Lostpedia.

S5E11 - Whatever Happened, Happened.

Richard says he doesn't answer to either Ellie or Charles, as he takes little Ben into the Temple.

Does he answer to Jacob, MiB, both, or the Monster? Or is Richard the Monster (Sawyer was like, where did you come from, and later we see they were only a few hundred yards from the Temple)?

In the first season DVD, a deleted scene between Jack and Kate called "Secrets":

JACK: The TV in the hospital’s coffee room runs soap operas all day.
KATE: Sorry?
JACK: I think we got ‘em beat. Sun, speaking English, her own husband not knowing? I mean, come on!
KATE: That’s ridiculous. It’s only a soap opera when the evil twin shows up.

That evil twin thing reminded me of Jacob, alone in the beach, and then MiB shows up...

"Claire's Doctor Visit":
JACK: Memory coming back?
CLAIRE: Bits and pieces, you know, certain people, seem familiar. Like I’ve met them before in another life or something. Helps more I talk about it. Brings things into focus more, you know? But, um, everyone’s avoiding me. I think I freak them out. I’m the weird amnesia chick.

Depending on what happens with the hydrogen bomb, she may know them from "another life" after all.

Transcripts by Lostpedia.

In the first season DVD, a deleted scene between Jack and Kate called "Secrets":

JACK: The TV in the hospital’s coffee room runs soap operas all day.
KATE: Sorry?
JACK: I think we got ‘em beat. Sun, speaking English, her own husband not knowing? I mean, come on!
KATE: That’s ridiculous. It’s only a soap opera when the evil twin shows up.

That evil twin thing reminded me of Jacob, alone in the beach, and then MiB shows up...



The evil twin thing reminded me more of Nemesis Locke in the statue while dead Locke is dumped out on the beach.

Wow, that almost sounds like Christian/this friend of Jacob's needed Aaron off the Island - either for his loophole plan to work or because of the war that's coming. I'm not sure why Aaron would be so special though - Ethan was not only born but conceived on the Island and he didn't amount to much in the end.

^^^^ I caught that too, the bit about the Black Rock in Claire's diary. I agree that she's a bigger player in this game as you said. Same goes with Aaron.

Again from the episode Something Nice Back Home:

and here's one from Cabin Fever:

I was confused about the whole Aaron thing, who he is supposed to be with, there seemed to be two opposite views. But now that I know there is Jacob and there is MiB, some things are a little bit clearer to me. What about this one, who is this talking through Claire in Kate's dream, MiB?

KATE: (Whispers) Claire? How did y--
CLAIRE: (voice breaks) Don't bring him back, Kate. (Chair creaks) Don't you dare bring him back.

The evil twin thing reminded me more of Nemesis Locke in the statue while dead Locke is dumped out on the beach.

*insert huge DUH! sign here*

How come I didn't think of that! *facepalm*


I think Aaron is with Claire's mom, but since it's LOST, who knows?

i think aaron "wasnt supposed to be there" because he was born on the island and the time hopping was about to start, and that would have killed him. We know the people who had spent more of thier life on the island died sooner. Aaron being born there would have been killed instantly. They sent Aaron away to protect him.

I think this is spot on. Locke was obviously between cross purposes from Deus Ex Machina on. Especially being pulled between the Swan hatch and the Pearl. Which I still can't figure out why. What was the point of drawing him to the Pearl for either Jacob or MiB?


But I think one key Locke moment happened very early on. In Walkabout when he had his encounter with (a? the?) monster. This is a key episode to watch for a Locke change. And it actually helps to skip the flashbacks for one viewing of it.

When Locke, Kate, and Michael go out for their hunt, Locke is sort of nerdish. He's like a book smart on hunting guy who's bought all the right clothes, but he doesn't quite act like he's done it before. He knows the signs, but you just don't get the sense that he's accustomed to what he's trying to do.

Then they have their run in with the boar, Michael gets wounded, John marches off alone after calling Kate Helen. "Don't tell me what I can't do".

Now here's the important part. It's just a few seconds of footage. Locke is hiking along twirling his knife like he's Conan (which is kind of a noobish thing to do) and he hears a boar in the brush. He takes a few steps towards it (what's he going to do? tackle it?) and then we hear monster sounds. And the boar squeels as if caught. **Listen to these few seconds a couple times.** John stops in his tracks and looks up as if frightened and amazed at the same time.


I don't think John killed that first boar. I think the monster did. And I think his encounter with the monster changed him somehow because after that he started knowing exactly how to help the people around him.

Alot of people want to attribute his ability to predict the weather to some external power or extraordinary senses, which sort of makes me sad. Modern man has lost so much practical knowledge when it comes to outdoor life that old skills are now seemingly magic to most. You can forcast weather just by listening to birds sing or noting changes in your surroundings. And that follows with the book smart, weebalo Locke. It shouldn't be all that impressive.

What's impressive is his ability to tell what each person around him needs. At least for the semi-antisocial and/or social skills stunted Locke that we were shown. He was sort of socially clumsy (what the orange peel and flashbacks was supposed to show us) prior to the meeting with the "bright light", and a very confident and socially wise man in regards to the needs of others after.


Excellent observation. It reminds me of the crib Locke made for Claire
100%
I remember Damon and Carlton telling us on one of the early podcasts that everything we need to know is in Season 1. Great thread because now I'm understanding what they mean.
100%
I remember Damon and Carlton telling us on one of the early podcasts that everything we need to know is in Season 1. Great thread because now I'm understanding what they mean.