Things that Gimple and Goyer have said have sparked thoughts in my brain.

Is it and would it be possible to help someone change their future flash?

All this talk of the Sphinx and Oedipus brings up Jocasta for me. Once she realized what she thought was going on she tried to keep Oedi from continuing his quest for more info until the whole ugly truth came out and she runs off to kill herself. Granted the situation isn't the same but....would you help someone change their future? Would it be a swapsies kind of thing? You help me, I help you?

:eek2:
hmmmm....

Now yer talkin', q.

(You may just dig this show...)

Temptation. Would you want someone else to take your choices away from you? Is it then your life anymore?

All this talk of the Sphinx and Oedipus brings up Jocasta for me. Once she realized what she thought was going on she tried to keep Oedi from continuing his quest for more info until the whole ugly truth came out and she runs off to kill herself. Granted the situation isn't the same but....would you help someone change their future?

What is interesting about Jocasta is that she is the reason the prophecy came to fulfillment. If she had simply killed the son as she was asked to, nothing would've come of it.

King Laius did not bring it on himself per se. Sure, he is the reason Oedipus went to another family, and subsequently the reason Laius was killed on the road, but who is to say that he would not have been killed by a son of his if he hadn't attempted to kill all of his sons? If he had succeeded in his plan to kill them all, he couldn't have been killed by any of them. Because Jocasta was hesitant, she ended up killing King Laius indirectly. Maybe she thought she was helping King Laius? Maybe she thought she was just helping Oedipus. Either way by trying to help she ended up allowing the situation to follow through.

The moral of the story is, in FlashForward, we may find some people eager to help other people who don't necessarily want/need it. These people who want to help might exacerbate things, or even cause some of the visions themselves. I wonder who our hero, Mr. Fiennes, will kill? His character is drinking again and he is very determined to figure this whole thing out. Simple curiosity? Or is his motive based on something he is guilty of?

:D

And to answer the question so I'm not called out for being completely off-topic: No I would not want to help someone change their fate of their vision. I wouldn't be entirely convinced that what I saw was going to come true. Sadistic maybe but that's how it is :D

All of these thoughts are definitely part of the DNA of the show. In the writers' room, I also talk a lot about the the "weight" of the future pressing down on our characters. Like atmospheric pressure. In real life, lots of people worry about the future. But in FF, the worry isn't just idle. It's real. Deciding whether or not to fight it, face it, or facilitate it is the core of our story-telling.

Plus the never knowing how any action might cause or destroy the possible outcome seen in the flash. I mean, in games like Sudoku or chess, you can see how an action will lead to several possible outcomes, or maybe even to a stalemate, and then you can choose to do a different action. But in life, you can't always predict what your action might do, and if you have a vision of an endgame, or at least a point in time, you can look at your own actions and how they may get you there or avoid it, but you can't predict the ripple affect they will have on anyone else.


Eeek, this is going to drive me nuts.

Temptation. Would you want someone else to take your choices away from you? Is it then your life anymore?

I think the only way to approach this issue would be to get their permission, which would almost be one of the most difficult aspect of the process, convincing someone to change their opinion, their actions and their goals dependant entirely on an entirely personal vision that may or may not turn out to be relevant.
100%
All of these thoughts are definitely part of the DNA of the show. In the writers' room, I also talk a lot about the the "weight" of the future pressing down on our characters. Like atmospheric pressure. In real life, lots of people worry about the future. But in FF, the worry isn't just idle. It's real. Deciding whether or not to fight it, face it, or facilitate it is the core of our story-telling.

Have you decided yet whether you are in a deterministic or relativistic universe? I know you won't share the answer and I hope you do not, but it would be interesting to see if you are taking a fixed approach from the beginning or going along for the ride and seeing what feels right.

...Have you decided yet whether you are in a deterministic or relativistic universe?...
A great bookend to that is what was posted at TruthHack (http://truthhack.com/feature-articles/questions-of-future-and-fate/)

Doctor Lisa England, a researcher from the UCLA Department of Physics and Astronomy, said that there are generally two schools of thought on the idea: eternalism and presentism.
“The idea of eternalism – or what some people call ‘block universe theory – regards ‘time’ as having a dimension of its own, the same way that space does,” England said. “So if time’s simply another dimension, then the future already exists. It’s been there the whole time, but humans don’t have the facilities to comprehend it.”
However, eternalism is regarded with some hostility amongst some scientists, who align themselves with the paradigm of presentism. “People who believe in presentism think that neither the past nor the future exist. The past ceases to exist as it’s eclipsed by the present, and the future doesn’t exist, because it hasn’t happened yet. Ultimately, it’s the way most people instinctively understand time.”

I don't know much about this sort of thing, but I feel like the Butterfly Effect (yes, I know it refers to the idea that a butterfly flapping its wings can change wind currents somewhere else as well as to the idea that killing even a butterfly can change everything when traveling through time) could apply to the future. That is, if I helped someone change his or her fate, or even do one little thing to make sure that his/her fate won't come true (making that person go to a different place, wake up at a different time, etc) I'd change something else as well. I'm still grappling with the fated-vs-free debate, but I do think that if you mess with one thing, you're messing with everything.

I think, if someone I knew had seen a glimpse of their future that they didn't like, I would try to help them change it. Whether this would work or not is debatable, and although I buy into the Whatever Happened, Happened on Lost, and accept the fact that fate seems to be winning over free will, I'd still like to see free will win in the end.
If we see the future, can we change it? Or will trying to change it result in it happening? I think I'd try, even though I may have always tried, which may cause the events that I was trying to avoid.

I think, if someone I knew had seen a glimpse of their future that they didn't like, I would try to help them change it. Whether this would work or not is debatable, and although I buy into the Whatever Happened, Happened on Lost, and accept the fact that fate seems to be winning over free will, I'd still like to see free will win in the end.
If we see the future, can we change it? Or will trying to change it result in it happening? I think I'd try, even though I may have always tried, which may cause the events that I was trying to avoid.

Yay! Your post gives me an excuse to bring up Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead! Alrighty: basically, there's this passage in the play that interests me, where Guildenstern (IIRC) is talking about the boat they're traveling on, and it becomes this massive metaphor for our existence (oh, high school AP English Lit). To put it simply (and dear Lord this has saved my butt on so many essays), you're on a boat. You can move around and act like you have some semblance of control of where it's going, or you can jump ship. Either way the boat's going to go where it's going to go. Only you can decide how you're going to deal with the boat.

Wait, what am I doing? I still have 3 weeks of summer left before I have to put on my philosophical liberal arts major hat on!

Yay! Your post gives me an excuse to bring up Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead! Alrighty: basically, there's this passage in the play that interests me, where Guildenstern (IIRC) is talking about the boat they're traveling on, and it becomes this massive metaphor for our existence (oh, high school AP English Lit). To put it simply (and dear Lord this has saved my butt on so many essays), you're on a boat. You can move around and act like you have some semblance of control of where it's going, or you can jump ship. Either way the boat's going to go where it's going to go. Only you can decide how you're going to deal with the boat.

Wait, what am I doing? I still have 3 weeks of summer left before I have to put on my philosophical liberal arts major hat on!

That's a brilliant way to explain it! But, what if you, for example, start a fire in the engine room? Or something else that causes the ship to break down, or sink, or perhaps even change course?
Lol, and now have I'm on a Boat (by the Lonely Island) stuck in my head. "I'm on a boat and, it's going fast and...."

That's a brilliant way to explain it! But, what if you, for example, start a fire in the engine room? Or something else that causes the ship to break down, or sink, or perhaps even change course?
Lol, and now have I'm on a Boat (by the Lonely Island) stuck in my head. "I'm on a boat and, it's going fast and...."

Ugghhh yea that's definitely stuck in my head now too. Can't wash it out.

Perhaps the metaphor refers to more of a, well, paddle boat with no paddles that's moving on its own? I dunno. I'd still like to think you can stick your hand in the water and make it turn :D

Ugghhh yea that's definitely stuck in my head now too. Can't wash it out.

Perhaps the metaphor refers to more of a, well, paddle boat with no paddles that's moving on its own? I dunno. I'd still like to think you can stick your hand in the water and make it turn :D

Like, a wee paddle boat (with no paddles) that is drifting along in the currents? I'm with you, I'd still like to think that you could stick your hands in the water and paddle yourself to where you want to go - or at least change the original course.

So, because of a dream you change your life?
What if you are interpreting the dream wrong? What if you see something that might be bad, but it turns out to improve your life? You avoid it and miss something good?
What if you see yourself doing something really cool, like getting married, but it ends up being a bad thing? Either way it is a risk.

The beauty of it is all is that we have free will to choose to risk or play it safe.

From what I gather (from watching only the commercials) , it doesn't feel like a dream - it is a memory - that hasn't happened yet. :stars:

Oops, yep. I should have said Flashforward memory... of the future...well, it was easier to say dream! :ohwell:

I think I get too2strange's thinking and I agree. The blackout may be an actual memory that hasn't happened yet but it's still just 2 min 17 seconds out of an entire lifetime. I know I can think of plenty of times when my life has sucked for more than just 2 min 17 seconds but if I had prevented that event I wouldn't be who I am or have the life that I have.

Deciding that your life is good or bad based on such a tiny fragment -- it's like giving out the Acadamy Award based on one frame of the film.

What if they had an episode where say, identical twins' were cross-wired and experienced the other twin's ff? Really, there are lots of script idea possibilities for the show.

What if they had an episode where say, identical twins' were cross-wired and experienced the other twin's ff? Really, there are lots of script idea possibilities for the show.

Or a woman in her first or second month of pregnancy could experience her unborn child's ff -- I imagine there wouldn't be much imagery or sound. I'm sure it would freak me out thinking that it was my own ff.

What if they had an episode where say, identical twins' were cross-wired and experienced the other twin's ff? Really, there are lots of script idea possibilities for the show.

Interesting idea!

I was wondering about the animal side to the story. Recently, my dog was tormented by a neighbor boy. I caught the boy, worked it out, but my dog has NOT liked this boy since. What if my dog had a flash forward of April 29 and on that day a boy was tormenting her? So, now, even though April 29th hasn't happened yet, my dog doesn't like the boy? As the dogs owner I'd be suspicious of the boy, not knowing why my dog didn't like him. I might even talk to the boy about not tormenting animals, so that now, have I prevented my dog from being harassed by the boy on April 29th? So, it never happens? It might happen anyway, but my dog has the memory and to her it has already happened.

So, even though I've changed the outcome of April 29th, nothing has changed for my dog.