White Rabbit...As Jack moves around Christian's Australian hotel room, notice the cigarette (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=12577&fullsize=1) and ashtray (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=12574&fullsize=1) (lower left)...strange that Christian is never seen smoking.

(not related but notice the window drapes open from here (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=12574&fullsize=1)to here (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=12580&fullsize=1)
exposing the big brass circle/sun...that had been just a shadow behind the curtain).

Outlaws.... It's Sawyer who smokes cigarettes. (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=14539&fullsize=1) Sawyer (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=2550&fullsize=1) not Christian (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=1786&fullsize=1). (Notice the nautical wheel on the wall, the circular windows, the fan, and the light shadow which looks like a polar bear (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=216&fullsize=1)). Compare the fan and pizza sign (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=1964&fullsize=1)with the fan and pizza box (http://www.photogallery.longlostlist.net/displayimage.php?pid=1743&fullsize=1) from The Greater Good in which Sayid's friend is smoking and playing Half-life.


cigarettes (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cigarettes) from Lostpedia...

Ed Mars smokes in What Kate Did.

Locke tries to light up after a support meeting in Orientation, but doesn't.

In the Pearl Orientation video, when Mark Wickmund is standing between the two viewing chairs, cigarette smoke rising up to his right. Chang is never seen smoking.

Paolo used to smoke. The cigarette found by Locke and Eko in ? in The Pearl Station still has not found its righteous smoker. There is no indication whatsoever in Exposé that the cigarette was left by Paulo. Who's the mysterious smoker in the Pearl? Is it the same person who was smoking in Christian's hotel room?

:)

well you definately know how to pick up indications. nice sun connection there. determining the symbolism of cigerette's and cigerette "smoke" is the thing.

where there's smoke, there's ?

Who's the mysterious smoker in the Pearl? Is it the same person who was smoking in Christian's hotel room?

Yes, it was Paulo, in both cases.
Long ago I posted several times my theory that it was Paulo.
Reasoning and highlights of my theory are:

1) Paulo used the same type hard-top, flip-cover cigarette pack as was seen in Christian's room.
2) Paulo was in Sydney at the same time as Christian.
3) Nikki significantly pointed out to Paulo that "ashes are evidence".
4) A huge chunk of screen time and dialog in Expose was about Paulo's smoking.
5) Zukerman, the man Pikki poisoned, was reported in the news to have died of a heart attack. The very same week Christian was found dead, reportedly of a heart attack.

I think Pikki were hired by someone to kill Zukerman and Christian. The diamonds were just a bonus Nikkie decided to pick up.
If so, it means Zukerman and Christian had a connection, probably one that went way back. (I used to think they were both in Dharma. Not sure, now. I still like the idea that Zukerman was the director of the Dharma videos, altho that wasn't him in the one scene we saw being filmed.)

Of course it doesn't have to be someone we've seen. They could still cast Wm. B. Davis. I loved when he showed up on Smallville as the mayor whose name apparently alternated.

I find it interesting that Sawyer doesn't seem to have any problems like Paulo does with quitting on the Island, although maybe we are just not shown that because it would be a boring storyline when we are already watching Charlie detox. Maybe Sawyer doesn't have problems because he has access to gum, or maybe because he didn't smoke prior to the 815 wake up. The first thing we see him do is have trouble lighting a cigarette and throw it away in frustration.

Cigarette smoking could tie in with The X Files "Cigarette Smoking Man" (a.k.a. CSM, a.k.a. Cancer man) played by William B. Davis--the "Darth Vader" of The X Files.

Hildy has pointed out before that cigarettes have been digitally removed from Matthew Fox's hands in behind the scenes content, but not other actors.

On LOST, smoke makes us think of the "smoke monster."

"Smoke gets in your eyes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_Gets_in_Your_Eyes)"

Patsy Cline's song, "Three Cigarettes in an Ashtray (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/cline-patsy/three-cigarettes-in-an-ashtray-10515.html)"

(On the non-smoking angle--nice. The sun/son came out!)

~
Edit to add: Oops, Suds beat me on the CSM speculation.

~
Of course, if Sawyer does smoke, it adds to the pile of evidence that many of Jack's memories actually belong to Sawyer, and that Christian is actually a father figure to Sawyer.

The question of the cigarettes (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=677957&postcount=43) has come up many times since we first saw White Rabbit. We still haven't found an answer. Still the other thing that was very interesting about the things in Christians room was that one of the bottles of pills says "Placebo".

If you re-watch the episode, the curtains are motorized.

There is a deleted scene from the pilot episode where Charlie asks Sawyer for a cigarette.

There is a deleted scene from the pilot episode where Charlie asks Sawyer for a cigarette.

That deleted scene is another Sawyer and Charlie mirroring scene. :yes:

Yes, it was Paulo, in both cases.
Long ago I posted several times my theory that it was Paulo.
Reasoning and highlights of my theory are:

1) Paulo used the same type hard-top, flip-cover cigarette pack as was seen in Christian's room.
2) Paulo was in Sydney at the same time as Christian.
3) Nikki significantly pointed out to Paulo that "ashes are evidence".
4) A huge chunk of screen time and dialog in Expose was about Paulo's smoking.
5) Zukerman, the man Pikki poisoned, was reported in the news to have died of a heart attack. The very same week Christian was found dead, reportedly of a heart attack.

I think Pikki were hired by someone to kill Zukerman and Christian. The diamonds were just a bonus Nikkie decided to pick up.
If so, it means Zukerman and Christian had a connection, probably one that went way back. (I used to think they were both in Dharma. Not sure, now. I still like the idea that Zukerman was the director of the Dharma videos, altho that wasn't him in the one scene we saw being filmed.)

I do think Christian might have killed himself or have been murdered, but not by Pikki... you'd think Jack would have brought up the cigarettes if they seemed out of place.. of course he doesn't notice the curtains opening either, so...

In fact, Nikki tells Paolo not to smoke because of the forensic evidence this would leave behind... so I doubt she would allow him to smoke in CSs hotel room if they were involved in his death.

And Paolo brought gum, but Sawyer stashed all the cigarettes...

The diamonds might be another metaphor. Daimons were the souls of men of the golden age acting as guardian deities. The first thing Nikki asks Paolo after the crash is "Where are the diamonds?" The king of diamonds is Julius Cesar... Julius means Jove's child... Jove = modern day John... or Jack. Jove also = Jupiter, the ruler of the fire sign, the archer... flaming arrows (aka Apollo). Linus = son of Apollo. Ben = son of

son of John names
Hanso
Janssen
Jenkins
Jackson
Jones

John related names
Jack
Elizabeth (mother of John the Baptist. daughter of Aaron. wife of Zach)
JOOP is Dutch for John
Joanne
Juliet
Julian
James (brother of John)
Simon (son of John)
Cesar


then there are the female names that have to do with light...there is also a diamond called the Jacob diamond.
Claire
Ana Lucia
Sun
Cindy Chandler
Noor (a famous diamond)
Helen
Ilana
Lucy
Rachel Blake

Here's one for you it'sagame...Barbara Joanne (variant of John) Miller ...the passport photo Kate burns... St. Barbara is protector against fire and lightening.

Devera, I find it interesting as well that Sawyer doesn't complain about running out of cigarettes, and yet he takes to the Dharma beer and Jack the alcoholic doesn't.

I didn't see any of the Dharmans smoking, so the two cigarettes burning... in the Pearl video and the Pearl itself... is an interesting clue... that perhaps the film wasn't made when we think...

I think we have seen the smoker... I'm starting to think Christian and Sawyer are one and the same...both have used the alias "Tom" the one Kate loved and killed. Cooper aka "Tom" is the father of John whom Sawyer killed. "Tom" aka Christian is the father of Jack... John's alter ego... one of them... and I think Kate killed him as she killed the man she loved and Sawyer asks her why did you kill me... the toy plane belongs to Tom, Christian is in the cabin where a pilot would be.

YouTube - Lost - 05x1 - White Rabbit - sub español - 2/5

@8:54 you will see the curtains open. I don't think there's a reason why Jack would pay attention to the curtains opening. There is also a blood pressure monitor in Christian's room and another medication in the drawer with the bottle of alcohol. If I remember correctly the medication is used by someone with heart problems. None of this is brought up or mentioned. By Jack or from the FB's with Christian.

Sam I didn't notice the curtains, thanks... also the pills- if they were placebos, the bottle would never say that they were if they were meant to be therapeutic...prescribed... unless the patient was really a dumbo, so who had he been giving them to? and what did he say they were?
100%
Sawyer also has heart problems ...

@ 9:19 on this youtube you can see the packet in the drawer. The site that used to have the screen caps isn't running anymore. Hydralazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydralazine) this was the other medication. Hypertension not heart problems.

Christian would certainly know what a Placebo was. I don't know if that might have been an inside joke to see if we were paying attention.

I did save the Placebo (http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/SamG1/?action=view&current=lostep050609.jpg) pic in photobucket. Hope you can see it. Click on it to enlarge. You can also see the prescription on the other bottle was filled out 9/4/05. OH, Does it look like it says Dr. Chang on the top of that bottle?

Read the news paper headlines. Lots in that one picture.

I do think Christian might have killed himself or have been murdered, but not by Pikki...

Paulo and Nikki represent someone else.

Devera, I find it interesting as well that Sawyer doesn't complain about running out of cigarettes, and yet he takes to the Dharma beer and Jack the alcoholic doesn't.

Yep, in Island-world, most people drink too much and do too many drugs, except we noticeably don't see Jack doing so. Kate is suspicious of his motives for wanting alcohol in The Pilot, but he explains it is for the wound. Jack was apparently "looking for the liquor cart" according to Kate in the "I Never" scene. (Sawyer: "It's a good thing I found it instead, then, huh?"). Sawyer does give all of the remaining liquor to Kate, though, to take to Jack for medical reasons...(those are the bottles that hide little baby Aaron according to Suds' infamous theory :biggrin:).

Checking Lostpedia, Sawyer ends up with some wine from the supply drop that Bernard and Rose brought back, he's in on the beer party with Jin, Hurley, and Charlie (however, he is the only one drinking alone afterwards--no Freckles there to hang out with), and he drinks some of the boxed wine in New Otherton. None of these seem particularly more excessive than any of the other drinkers on the Island, but certainly he might have alcoholic tendencies like many of the characters seem to do.

The 70s probably don't count, because Sawyer is playing a different person in the 70s.

I think we have seen the smoker... I'm starting to think Christian and Sawyer are one and the same...

Strange, then, that Christian calls Sawyer "son" in the bar and is wearing Jack's shirt. However, Jack's shirt might not really be Jack's shirt, if some of Jack's memories belong to Sawyer.

Family names might also come into play, and the fact that Thomas means twin. Our confusion on name clues might come from that...a set of twins both identified with the alias "Tom" due to being twins, along with passed down family names.

3) Nikki significantly pointed out to Paulo that "ashes are evidence".
I'm imagining the inset of Garett Morris cupping his hands around his mouth and shouting that at me as I realize now what a shout-out that line was to the audience, thanks.

Makes me wonder now what was around Horace's/Jacob's shack before it burned, and why.
100%
I find it interesting that Sawyer doesn't seem to have any problems like Paulo does with quitting on the Island, although maybe we are just not shown that because it would be a boring storyline when we are already watching Charlie detox. Maybe Sawyer doesn't have problems because he has access to gum, or maybe because he didn't smoke prior to the 815 wake up. The first thing we see him do is have trouble lighting a cigarette and throw it away in frustration.
Maybe one Sawyer smokes and the other one doesn't. Maybe one Sawyer read Of Mice & Men and the other didn't.

Regardless, Mr. Holloway looked so kewl smoking in that early shot, making like Clint Eastwood making like Gary Cooper.

Reminds me of David Lindelof's telling me how he'd started smoking: for a school play.

Cigarette smoking could tie in with The X Files "Cigarette Smoking Man" (a.k.a. CSM, a.k.a. Cancer man) played by William B. Davis--the "Darth Vader" of The X Files.
They cast him to that type in Smallville too -- hilarious!

Hildy has pointed out before that cigarettes have been digitally removed from Matthew Fox's hands in behind the scenes content, but not other actors.
Hiding it from his kids?

Paulo and Nikki represent someone else.
They do, but the mappings aren't 1:1, so it doesn't preclude their representing others.

The 70s probably don't count, because Sawyer is playing a different person in the 70s.
He's not just playing!

Robert

The Pearl is the gemstone for the Moon. The Moon happens to rule the 4th zodiac Cancer.

"Today, the Greek term carcinoma (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Carcinoma) is the medical term for a malignant tumor derived from epithelial (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Epithelium) cells. It is Celsus (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Aulus_Cornelius_Celsus) who translated carcinos into the Latin (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Latin) cancer, also meaning crab."

Cancer (the constellation) is symbolised by a crab.

The only pic we have of Alvar Hanso reminds me of Cancer Man from X-Files.

So...MilesSmiles, are you saying the Hatch is smoking?
100%
Maybe one Sawyer smokes and the other one doesn't.

Regardless, we are only shown Sawyer smoking once on the island and having no withdrawal problems.

Maybe one Sawyer read Of Mice & Men and the other didn't.

I'm very tempted at this point to pull a Ben and be really mean and say that Sawyer can't read...but I'm not such a jerk about dyslexia as Ben is.

I agree with you about the mappings not being 1:1.
100%
Sawyer also has heart problems ...

Does he have heart problems, or heart:heart: problems?--if you know what I mean.

Very interesting thread, guys. Sorry if I've missed something, but what's the significance of the motorized curtains?

When you're just looking at screen caps it looks like an error. You have to watch the scene to see the curtains open on their own.

When you're just looking at screen caps it looks like an error. You have to watch the scene to see the curtains open on their own.

So, it's just a prop-error we're noticing here, or does this link up with the notion of a smoking culprit? Sorry, I cant view the video at work.

So, it's just a prop-error we're noticing here, or does this link up with the notion of a smoking culprit? Sorry, I cant view the video at work.

The implication is that there might be another person in the room, since someone had to cause the curtains to open.

There is someone in the room with Jack - the Hotel manager - You can see him push the remote to open the drapes in the episode. It just looks odd in screen caps, when it's out of context, it's not a error but it could look that way.

There is someone in the room with Jack - the Hotel manager - You can see him push the remote to open the drapes in the episode. It just looks odd in screen caps, when it's out of context, it's not a error but it could look that way.

Thanks, Sam. So it probably has nothing to do with the smoking clues...although I do love the metaphor.

The implication is that there might be another person in the room, since someone had to cause the curtains to open.


Oh, I see. It would have been my assumption that a button had been pushed and the curtains began to open. It was a pretty nice hotel after all, with a nice view if I recall.

That aside, I kinda like all the smoking bits of the theory...

quote=Devera - So...MilesSmiles, are you saying the Hatch is smoking?


Couldnt help but think of the Cigarrette Smoking Man (Cancer Man) in the Moon.

Sam I didn't notice the curtains, thanks... also the pills- if they were placebos, the bottle would never say that they were if they were meant to be therapeutic...prescribed... unless the patient was really a dumbo, so who had he been giving them to? and what did he say they were?
100%
Sawyer also has heart problems ...
Does the bottle say "adult" after the word placebo?
Could Christian have been medicating someone? (Not medicating someone...)

I'm imagining the inset of Garett Morris cupping his hands around his mouth and shouting that at me as I realize now what a shout-out that line was to the audience, thanks.

Makes me wonder now what was around Horace's/Jacob's shack before it burned, and why.
100%

Maybe one Sawyer smokes and the other one doesn't. Maybe one Sawyer read Of Mice & Men and the other didn't.

Regardless, Mr. Holloway looked so kewl smoking in that early shot, making like Clint Eastwood making like Gary Cooper.

Reminds me of David Lindelof's telling me how he'd started smoking: for a school play.


They cast him to that type in Smallville too -- hilarious!


Hiding it from his kids?


They do, but the mappings aren't 1:1, so it doesn't preclude their representing others.


He's not just playing!

Robert
Love the idea of Garret Morris! (Thanks for that!)
(And yes, Sawyer was a different person.)

Thanks, Sam. So it probably has nothing to do with the smoking clues...although I do love the metaphor.
Loving the "smoke and mirrors" of it all!
100%
What is that silver thing in the placebo photo? A box cutter?
(The butt in the drawer is not very attractive...)

The Swan and the Pearl...
Since Hans = Swan, Han = John, Hanso = Johnson I'd say the Swan is John
If Desmond David Hume is the Black Swan; could the twins be John and David?

Are there two sets of twins? male/male and female/female?
Margaret, Karen, Maggie, Penny, Margo, Mary... names that mean Pearl
Who might the Black Pearl be?

Or perhaps male-female twins?

Maybe our mystery smoker is a female? Diane Janssen is dying of lung cancer?

Sawyer in the 70s seems to take on the role of the Eds... the name means guardian-protector/sheriff/marshal/gate guard/cop. But is it a new role..both Kate and Sawyer wanted to get into the Halliburton case.

Sawyer said he did a lot of growing up. Is that a clue that he has taken on the role of say...his father?

Might Jack's dad and Sawyer's dad be brothers?

Maybe our mystery smoker is a female? Diane Janssen is dying of lung cancer?

Who are our suspects? Who went into the Hatch that we know of?
-Desmond
-Kate
-Jack
-John
-Sawyer
-Eko
-Ben
-Sayid
-Ana Lucia
-Hurley
-Charlie
-Libby
-Michael
-Sun (thanks LadybirdKate)

Am I missing anyone?

Devera...which hatch, the Swan or the Pearl? according to Lostpedia, known visitors to the the Pearl (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pearl)

Nikki
Paolo
Locke
Eko
Juliet
Ben
Tom Friendly
Sayid
Desmond

from 70s
Mike the Technician
Mark Wickmund
skeleton from polar bear cave

On Paulo's visit to the Pearl, looking to hide the diamonds, one of the tables contained what appeared to be the stubbed-out ashes of a cigarette (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cigarette). So, Paolo couldn't be the smoker, if the ashes were already there...
100%
Rose did laundry in the Swan hatch...

I'm very tempted at this point to pull a Ben and be really mean and say that Sawyer can't read...but I'm not such a jerk about dyslexia as Ben is.

.

Given the amount of times we've seen him with books...that would actually be amusing. :D

Who are our suspects? Who went into the Hatch that we know of?
-Desmond
-Kate
-Jack
-John
-Sawyer
-Eko
-Ben
-Sayid
-Ana Lucia
-Hurley
-Charlie
-Libby
-Michael

Am I missing anyone?

Sun helped Kate take care of Sawyer in WKD.

Devera...which hatch, the Swan or the Pearl?

Oops, which one had the smoking cigarette? I just assumed it was the Swan. It was in the Pearl?

Edit to add:
Did Rose eventually go in the Swan? I thought she didn't want to...

She went and helped Hurley take inventory of all the food and Kate came in and took the shampoo. Rose took a Apollo bar for Bernard.

She went and helped Hurley take inventory of all the food and Kate came in and took the shampoo. Rose took a Apollo bar for Bernard.

Thanks, Sam. Gee, I need to do some more rewatching.

Emily Locke's mother smokes

also lyrics to the song "Three Cigarettes in an Ashtray..."
in The Incident, Parts 1 & 2 are changed

"Two cigarettes in an ashtray,
My love and I in a small cafe.
Then a stranger came along,
And everything went wrong." Patsy Cline

does this indicate a missing smoker...? the 3rd Smokey... from the 3 heads of Cerberus.

missing heads
Charlie's father chops heads off dolls
Jin chops the head off a fish
Roger's head falls off when Hurley and Jin try to move him out of the van
the skull in the polar bear cave with no body
Alvar Hanso in TLE was the "missing head" of Hanso
the book cover of the book Ben gives Sayid
Doc Ray's throat was slit
missing white "king" from chessboard
bear head skull in Ben's hydra office
heads of animals on Cooper's wall
the pilot... head of the plane...dies from injuries caused by Smokey.
the statue
DS album cover (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/8/87/Driveshaft_cdcases.jpg)3 skulls on one... the other cover's guitar has smokey colored flames around it
and the S is backward.

another skull (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/d/d3/GeronimoJacksonDharmaLady.JPG)

also thought about the ashes around the cabin...

Ring Around the Rosey
Pocket Full of Posies
Ashes, Ashes, We All Fall Down

One of the queens in Wonderland constantly said "Off with his head!" The Cheshire cat was sometimes only a talking head.

Good one, simone5p !!!
Composed in view of the black plague...
"Man's" non-understanding (myth) of the natural world...
"Man's" fear of the unknown.
100%
One of the queens in Wonderland constantly said "Off with his head!" The Cheshire cat was sometimes only a talking head.

!!! Nice !!!
(Now we're getting somewhere!)