The perspective when her FF (can't remember her name, sorry...) was shown, it was like Noh was intentionally left out of the shot.

Anyone else think she didn't actually see him, and embellished that little detail, assuming she was on the beach to marry him?

I definitely thought that was a possibility. All it really shows is her on a beach in a white dress...that doesn't necessarily mean wedding and even if it does it doesn't necessarily mean to Noh.

I previously posted that Zoey might have been asleep and dreaming of her wedding when her FF occurred.
My son was watching tonight and he said he thought she was having a dream when she FF. I never mentioned to him what I had posted.

I previously posted that Zoey might have been asleep and dreaming of her wedding when her FF occurred.
My son was watching tonight and he said he thought she was having a dream when she FF. I never mentioned to him what I had posted.

Good thought.

I've wondered that about several characters' FFs.

For that matter, maybe Noh was asleep in his FF and just not in REM sleep when it happened! :biggrin:

There are lots of possibilities at this point.

Good thought.

I've wondered that about several characters' FFs.

For that matter, maybe Noh was asleep in his FF and just not in REM sleep when it happened! :biggrin:

There are lots of possibilities at this point.
I'm also hoping Demetri was sleepig and not in REM. ;)

I'm also hoping Demetri was sleepig and not in REM. ;)


Me too!

I really like the guy... He was great in Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle!!

Also, I like his character *a lot* on the show.

I think it's really interesting how all these FBI Agents are sudddenly given over to flights of fancy and he's the only one maintaning a real rational perspective.... I like what he brings to the mix.

Yep I noticed that also that Demetri wasn't actually in her FF; at least the few seconds we saw of it.

It may turn out to be true he gets murdered - on that day - and they find out at the wedding (and he doesn't show up).

Same here!

Yep I noticed that also that Demetri wasn't actually in her FF; at least the few seconds we saw of it.

It may turn out to be true he gets murdered - on that day - and they find out at the wedding (and he doesn't show up).


Ooooo... . Interesting.

Yeah, all we see are the people she's walking towards and they are at a distance. It definitely could have been a dream and it's believeable that she could be asleep at 10 pm.

Yep I noticed that also that Demetri wasn't actually in her FF; at least the few seconds we saw of it.

It may turn out to be true he gets murdered - on that day - and they find out at the wedding (and he doesn't show up).

Ooooo... . Interesting. [/quote]

The woman, I've seen it mentioned in a few places that her name is Nhadra Udaya, that called Demetri said that he was murdered on March 15, 2010. He had been shot in the chest three times.

Zoey was stating what she thought she saw, expected to see but she couldn't see who was really on the beach.

Maybe we only don't see him because it means we will keep speculating about whether he was there or not.

I mean, what if he was there? Why doesn't he remember?

I really like her and think they have great chemistry. I love Gabrielle Union, and being unspoiled, had no idea she was going to be Zoey.

I agree they have a really nice chemistry.

The water in her dream was beautiful. I would like to know where that was filmed.

I may start a theory thread on this but I'm seeing a pattern among those that have good visions versus those that have bad visions. Speaking specifically of Zoe and Demitri, Demitri's "vision" has been corroborated by the woman who called confirming that her vision revealed his murder. Zoe's was not corroborated by Demetri (obviously) or anyone else as far as we know. So we could be seeing a case where the bad visions are some reality someone is trying to manipulate and make happen, and the good visions are simply dreams. For those who were asleep and dreaming at the time of the GBO, it is possible their visions could not be tampered with.

(But of course that doesn't explain Charlie, who claims she dreamt bad things that are corroborated).

My two cents. I think Noh's murder on March 15th is going to be faked. The woman only read a report right? I think he was awake and that's why no flash, his murder is faked and he may marry his girlie from where ever he is in hiding.

I may start a theory thread on this but I'm seeing a pattern among those that have good visions versus those that have bad visions. Speaking specifically of Zoe and Demitri, Demitri's "vision" has been corroborated by the woman who called confirming that her vision revealed his murder. Zoe's was not corroborated by Demetri (obviously) or anyone else as far as we know. So we could be seeing a case where the bad visions are some reality someone is trying to manipulate and make happen, and the good visions are simply dreams. For those who were asleep and dreaming at the time of the GBO, it is possible their visions could not be tampered with.

(But of course that doesn't explain Charlie, who claims she dreamt bad things that are corroborated).

I think there is the potential that this represents a split-path scenario. On the one hand we have Zoe, who was supposedly at their wedding. She claims to have seen Demetri, though the viewers have not seen him in her flashforward. On the other we have woman who said Demetri had been killed. Based on Demetri's choices, he might be able to head down one path or the other. Thus, he had no vision, because his path had not yet been set.

Obviously there is the possibility that Zoe was not at a wedding, or that it just wasn't for Demetri.

There is also the possibility that the woman's report was wrong. Afterall, it was simply a report. Not photographic evidence.

There is also a question in my mind about Demetri. When he was talking with Zoe about her dream, how did he know she was barefoot? White dress is simple enough, but I didn't hear her tell him she was barefoot....

oi vey

Hi everyone

My thoughts on this was that Zoe, even though Demetri has been murdered, still goes ahead with the ceremony. Sort of like a remembrance/promise to Demetri.

The people she sees are also there to take part in it.

Going against that idea though is she isn't crying and doesn't look upset and is walking almost dream-like.

I really hope Demtri isn't killed!

What's really interesting about the thing w/ her FF (and this happens w/ others' FFs as well) is how the FF undermines traditional Western notions of causality. (as well as sequential, linear temporality, which are really inextricably interwoven w/ one another.)

In summary -

- She envisions herself on a beach, as what she interprets to be her marrying Noh on 4/29
- So in response to that, they set their wedding date for 4/29... because she saw it....
- Thus, she's at that beach on 4/29.... sees herself in her FF on the beach... which is what causes her to be on the beach to begin w/.

Both events - her FF and her being on the beach - are both cause and effect of one another. Thinking about it and trying to figure it out makes my head spin, which I guess isn't surprising since the whole thing is entirely circular in nature.

Not only do I not know what to think about all this, but I don't know *how* to think about it, since, the way we are conditioned (in the post-Enlightenment West) to percieve the world presupposes linear temporality and causality as foundational aspects of what reality is and how the universe works.

I think the wedding date was already set for 4/29/2010. I'm pretty sure Zoey mentioned this to Demetri.

I think but I might be wrong, what Zoey meant when she said that the date was already set was because she saw them in her ff getting married on April 29, 2010, to her that means the date was already set. Does that make sense?

ETA
The question is what made them decide to have that wedding date first before they had the ff?

Demetri's reaction indicated that it hadn't been set yet--Zooey argued that in the future they had already made the decision, hence her flashforward. :)

BrothaJefe316's post is kind of what I've been trying to say about "self-fulfilling prophecies." Mark is convinced everything on his bulletin board is important...but maybe the only reason some things are on his bulletin board is not because they were ever important, but because he saw them there in his flashforward and therefore investigated them. It's a mind twister.

Zoey's FF (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2793212&postcount=119)

Zoey's FF (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2793212&postcount=119)

Would it be a stretch to wonder if this could be a funeral/memorial service rather than a wedding? We don't actually see Demetri, so...

I cant tell who the people are. There are 5 including someone who looks like a priest. There also might be children or a child present. It is hard to tell if it's bouquets being held, the man on the end isn't holding one and there are 4?

Both men are wearing white but can't tell much else about them.

That water is unreal!

Okay, so here are my thoughts on Zoey's FF.

She claims to have seen Dimitry. However, all we saw of her FF was her walking on a beach and a group of people all dressed in white way off in the distance. Now, if that was her entire FF, then I would think that if she was pressed, she would have to admit that no, she did not really see Dimitry, because the people were too far away to see. Unless of course we get another view of this FF - i.e. one of the people in the group.



SueS

Heres something that just came up. If thats her FF and we havent met anyone whos had the same FF, then none of Demitris friends (or demetri himself) were there! Mark and janis defintely werent on that beach otherwise they wouldve had the beach wedding FF.

Janis' FF seemed to have added a little more the next time she talked about it. I suspect, Zoey's FF is going to alter also.

Janis' FF seemed to have added a little more the next time she talked about it. I suspect, Zoey's FF is going to alter also.

They just love to do that to us to keep us guessing :D

Then again that very thing could launch a theory in itself.

Each time they think back to it, it's after they've done something in the real world. Perhaps it has an impact on what they actually think happened. Who knows. I'm not making any sense. But what I'm saying is, perhaps their recollection of their FF changes as they recall it. Expands maybe? Shifts? Who knows. Another thread, maybe.

Well, doesn't that happen when you try to remember something? You see the basic picture and then you are reminded of more specific details.

Well, doesn't that happen when you try to remember something? You see the basic picture and then you are reminded of more specific details.

Yea, but not when I remember something immediately after I just experienced it. It seems to me like more aspects of their vision emerge as they go on, but I see what you're saying. It could be explained either way, but I like mine better because conspiracies are more fun. :D

It was my first thought that she just wanted it to be Dimitri in her FF, and that there was no reason for her not to believe that it was.

Yeah, all we see are the people she's walking towards and they are at a distance. It definitely could have been a dream and it's believeable that she could be asleep at 10 pm.

Unless she is in Hawaii which in this case it could be late afternoon. Late late afternoon. Hawaii is just a few hours behind L.A. so...

You know, this is one flash-forward in which both participants see totally different events. Nice alternate usage of this story telling device.

Anyone notice that there isn't a dog in the story? Hmmm!

And on that note... P. S. Go Vincent!

I really think it was a dream.

If it's 10:00 pm in LA then it's 7:00 pm in Hawaii.
The sunset (http://www.sunrisesunset.com/calendar.asp?comb_city_info=Honolulu,%20Hawaii;158 ;21.4;-10;0&month=4&year=2009&time_type=0)on April 29, 2009 was 6:56 so the sunset in 2010 should be about the same.
That means the sun had already set when the ff occurred. Isn't it a little bright for 7:00 pm?

The shadows don't match up.
Zoey's shadow (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/FlashForward/Screencaps/Zoes_vision001.jpg)is to the left of her as she is walking towards the group. That means she is walking South. That would mean the group (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/FlashForward/Screencaps/Zoes_vision005.jpg)is facing East and the sun is behind them. Souldn't there be an extremely long shadow in front of the group if it's 7:00 pm? If Zoey's shadow is due to the camera the shadows of the group are still too short.

Me too!

I really like the guy... He was great in Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle!!

Also, I like his character *a lot* on the show.

I think it's really interesting how all these FBI Agents are sudddenly given over to flights of fancy and he's the only one maintaning a real rational perspective.... I like what he brings to the mix.

Me too. He's the only one so far that I feel invested in. I don't know, none of the others are really doing it for me. The double A mentor I think fits his role perfectly, I just haven't seen enough of him to know if his arc is going to be done well enough.

Janis seems intriguing.
Yeah, all we see are the people she's walking towards and they are at a distance. It definitely could have been a dream and it's believeable that she could be asleep at 10 pm.

Or a daydream. On april 29th, at whatever time that is, Zoey could be day dreaming of her wedding day with Demetri. She could be awake, and taking a little mind vacation from reality at the moment her FF showed her. Who hasn't spent part of their days, especially at work, wishing they were somewhere else, somewhere happy?

Happy for her seems to be marrying Demetri.
My two cents. I think Noh's murder on March 15th is going to be faked. The woman only read a report right? I think he was awake and that's why no flash, his murder is faked and he may marry his girlie from where ever he is in hiding.

INteresting. It would be nice to get some medical history on the characters that see nothing. Perhpas something in their genetic makeup, or some later life procedure or sickeness, measels, chickenpox, radiation treatment, who knows, plays a part in them not being affected by whatever the hell that was there at the end of 137 Sekkunden.

We don't know enough yet, imo, to classify no FF as being death. That may be a diversion they want us to focus on.

What's really interesting about the thing w/ her FF (and this happens w/ others' FFs as well) is how the FF undermines traditional Western notions of causality. (as well as sequential, linear temporality, which are really inextricably interwoven w/ one another.)

In summary -

- She envisions herself on a beach, as what she interprets to be her marrying Noh on 4/29
- So in response to that, they set their wedding date for 4/29... because she saw it....
- Thus, she's at that beach on 4/29.... sees herself in her FF on the beach... which is what causes her to be on the beach to begin w/.

Both events - her FF and her being on the beach - are both cause and effect of one another. Thinking about it and trying to figure it out makes my head spin, which I guess isn't surprising since the whole thing is entirely circular in nature.

Not only do I not know what to think about all this, but I don't know *how* to think about it, since, the way we are conditioned (in the post-Enlightenment West) to percieve the world presupposes linear temporality and causality as foundational aspects of what reality is and how the universe works.

I don't know about them being circular. I think people are seeing what's in their FF and believing that it has to happen that way.

As we saw with Demetri when he found that custom agent Guyer saw; Demetri knocked over the guys bong. At that moment he had a choice. He could bust the guy, which would negate his application and cause a ripple effect. Guyer wouldn't see him on april 29th.

Or Demetri could let it slide, forget about it, let the kid get accepted and be there to meet Guyer when he arrives.

I find it curious that we didn't see Demetri's choice in the matter. I think he busts the kid. Sort of his personal experiment in seeing if the FF's can be altered. The people we've seen so far have all but convinced themselves that what they're seeing is going to happen. I don't see too many people working at making different choices.

It's early yet tho.

...That would mean the group (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/FlashForward/Screencaps/Zoes_vision005.jpg)is facing East...

Going to go out on a really weak limb and just say on the right-hand side of the screencap is the cloud again from 1991 Ganwar :D

Hehe.

Janis' FF seemed to have added a little more the next time she talked about it. I suspect, Zoey's FF is going to alter also.

Or... what if... as people try to secure their flash-forward or try to do things to avoid their flash-forward, they actually change their flash-forward. When they remember it, it changes. After all, it's a memory and not a vision. It has already happened. Right?

In this case, can we say that "whatever happened, happened" in the future and that it is set in stone? Or can the characters do nothing to change their flash-forward?

I'm leaning towards the latter, because huh,... it makes a better story. For me it does.

P. S. Go Vincent!

Or... what if... as people try to secure their flash-forward or try to do things to avoid their flash-forward, they actually change their flash-forward. When they remember it, it changes. After all, it's a memory and not a vision. It has already happened. Right?

In this case, can we say that "whatever happened, happened" in the future and that it is set in stone? Or can the characters do nothing to change their flash-forward?

I'm leaning towards the latter, because huh,... it makes a better story. For me it does.

P. S. Go Vincent!

I'm leaning with you Papa Thor!

Or... what if... as people try to secure their flash-forward or try to do things to avoid their flash-forward, they actually change their flash-forward. When they remember it, it changes. After all, it's a memory and not a vision. It has already happened. Right?

In this case, can we say that "whatever happened, happened" in the future and that it is set in stone? Or can the characters do nothing to change their flash-forward?

I'm leaning towards the latter, because huh,... it makes a better story. For me it does.

P. S. Go Vincent!

Yea that's pretty much what I was saying in this thread.

It's very similar sentiments actually.

Our brains must be communicating. >.>

I find it curious that we didn't see Demetri's choice in the matter. I think he busts the kid. Sort of his personal experiment in seeing if the FF's can be altered. The people we've seen so far have all but convinced themselves that what they're seeing is going to happen. I don't see too many people working at making different choices.

It's early yet tho.


I find it interesting that on the one hand we have Mark who is actively trying to make his FF happen - i.e. trying to recreate his board in an almost self-fulfilling prophecy kind of way. And on the other hand we have Demetri who at least appears to be toying with the idea of changing his FF - i.e. did he or didn't he bust Murphy for the bong.

I think the big question for Demetri is going to be - "what action is going to change my FF for the better?" Will busting Murphy really help? It might change Murphy's future, but that could mean that someone else now processes Guyer through customs. Perhaps he tries to prevent Guyer from being released. But again is that going to change anything for him?

If Demetri really thinks that the "murder" in FF is his own, I would think that he would try to get in touch with Guyer. And see if he can get any more information from him.

It's interesting how these FF are getting misinterpreted because people have very limited knowledge of what is happening ... and what happened before. The future in between the FF and the present is a complete blank.

Right now, we're assuming the "murder" from Guyer's FF is the group or "murder of crows", and Demetri's assumption that the "murder" is an actual murder - possibly his own - is wrong. But, what if we're the ones who are wrong? It is going to be several months before Guyer is released, so who's to say that Demetri's murder (if it does happen) doesn't play a factor in his release.


Sue S

One thing missing from everyone's speculation on Zoey's FF is her feelings. Olivia said she 'felt' emotions when she saw the stranger in her vision, and Mark said he 'felt' like the drinking he was doing was not the first time he'd fallen off the wagon.

So, wouldn't that mean that if Demetri were dead, Zoey's vision would 'feel' different? After all, if he's supposed to die 6 weeks earlier, she would know it, and that's too short of a time to be switching grooms.

But then, maybe that stokes the fires on the theory that she's just dreaming about he wedding when 10pm on D day happens.