It has always seemed to me that the freighter not only had two teams--the scientists and the mercenaries--but that the two teams had different loyalties, or at least two different missions. On the surface they all seemed to be working for Widmore, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt it. Here's what I think happened:

1) Widmore hires Naomi
2) Penny finds out about Naomi and intercepts her, offering to pay her extra if she finds Desmond on the Island (giving Naomi the picture of her and Desmond)
3) Naomi meets with Abaddon, who informs her about the scientific team she will be protecting (the scientific team is Widmore's Plan A to find Ben)
4) Naomi asks about survivors on the Island as a result of her conversation with Penny putting that idea in her head
5) Naomi therefore has two missions--Penny's mission for her to find Desmond and Widmore's mission for her to protect the scientific team

Meanwhile...

1) Ben finds out about the freighter
2) Ben hires the mercenaries to infiltrate the freighter and pretend to work for Widmore
3) The mercenaries were supposed to put on a show of kidnapping Ben and reinforce in the Others' minds the danger the Island is in (and how much they need Ben to protect them)
4) Ben also hires Michael, leading him to believe that he is the only one on the freighter working for Ben (Michael will be the means by which Ben will kill the mercenaries when he's through with them)
5) Widmore finds out about the mercenaries, and offers to pay them more if they work for him instead (the mercenaries become Widmore's Plan B in case the scientific team doesn't find Ben)

So when Keamy arrives at the Barracks with Alex, Ben doesn't realize that Keamy now works for Widmore. Therefore, he thinks Alex is perfectly safe. So when Keamy threatens to kill Alex, Ben believes it's all part of the show. When Keamy actually shoots Alex, he is taken completely by surprise. This is why he says, "They changed the rules," because his original instructions to them were to kill none of the Others.

This is the nature of the argument between Ben and Charles in Charles' apartment--each one blaming the other for Alex's death. Charles did not give Keamy instructions to kill Alex; Keamy came up with that on his own. That is why Charles says that Ben brought this on himself, because it was Ben's idea to hire the mercenaries in the first place. But Ben blames Widmore because Widmore double-crossed him and paid the mercenaries to work for him instead.

Ben's original plan was to allow the mercenaries to kidnap him and bring him to the freighter. Then he would escape, but not before giving Michael instructions to blow up the freighter and kill everyone on it (including himself). Ben's specific instructions to Michael not to kill any "good" people would play right into Ben's hands, because when he returns to shore with them, he will look like the hero. The danger that the mercenaries presented to the Island would reinforce the importance of Ben being the leader, and his heroic deed (which is just like the bad guy's plan in the Pixar movie The Incredibles) would seal the deal.

But when Alex is murdered, he realizes he has to come up with a new plan. Shortly after that is when they go to the cabin and Locke receives the instructions to move the Island. Ben, having just experienced a huge failure with the mercenaries, realizes that it's finally time to leave the Island to Locke. He believes that he must turn the wheel and be banished from the Island because he failed.

I think it's over-analyzing things. Why can't Ben and Widmore's conversation just be Ben bringing things onto himself because he 'tricked' Widmore off the island?

If Penny contacted Naomi to find Desmond then why tell Charlie "Who is Naomi?"

I think Keamy was just a loose cannon who was going to do things his way and if he died, everybody died. Widmore believed that Ben stole the island from him and he wanted it back.

If Ben's plan was to allow the mercenaries to kidnap him I think he would have walked out the door when Keamy showed up with Alex, thus making himself a martyr in his people's eyes for sacrificing himself (and probably making the Others more likely to save him from Keamy as Richard did once already).

If Penny contacted Naomi to find Desmond then why tell Charlie "Who is Naomi?"

See, that's the problem with doing a re-watch. I focus on what I just watched and forget the stuff that comes later. Dangit.

I think Keamy was just a loose cannon who was going to do things his way and if he died, everybody died. Widmore believed that Ben stole the island from him and he wanted it back.

If Ben's plan was to allow the mercenaries to kidnap him I think he would have walked out the door when Keamy showed up with Alex, thus making himself a martyr in his people's eyes for sacrificing himself (and probably making the Others more likely to save him from Keamy as Richard did once already).

You're probably right. Oh well, it was fun to write anyway. Back to the drawing board! :undecide:

See, that's the problem with doing a re-watch. I focus on what I just watched and forget the stuff that comes later. Dangit.



You're probably right. Oh well, it was fun to write anyway. Back to the drawing board! :undecide:

Theorizing is most of the fun and in the end most of us will be wrong anyway ;)

If Ben hired Keamy why was Keamy so surprised that Ben knew everything about him?
"Cabin Fever"
KEAMY: You gave me up.
GAULT: What?
KEAMY: Linus knew who I was. He knew my name. He knew everything about me.
GAULT: No, I'm not the one who gave you up.
KEAMY: Then who did?

The thing that confuses me is why Naomi had the picture of Desmond and Penny. To my knowledge it still hasn't been explained (and neither has her bracelet, which says "N, I'll always be with you. R.G."). Naomi said that she was hired by Penny, but admitted that she never actually met Penny. Perhaps Abaddon was their connection--I'm still not 100% convinced that he is totally loyal to Charles exclusively. As he has said, his job is to get people where they need to be, and so I assume that means that if doing so goes against what Charles wants, then so be it.

The thing that confuses me is why Naomi had the picture of Desmond and Penny. To my knowledge it still hasn't been explained (and neither has her bracelet, which says "N, I'll always be with you. R.G."). Naomi said that she was hired by Penny, but admitted that she never actually met Penny. Perhaps Abaddon was their connection--I'm still not 100% convinced that he is totally loyal to Charles exclusively. As he has said, his job is to get people where they need to be, and so I assume that means that if doing so goes against what Charles wants, then so be it.

My thoughts are this: Naomi was sent ahead so that she could relay coordinates back to the freighter, just like she said. Knowing that she would most likely encounter someone, she needed a good cover story for why she was there. "I'm just here to relay coordinates back to a ship so some mercenaries can come over and kill Benjamin Linus and whoever else gets in the way" might not have gone over too well, but claiming to be working for Penny to find her long lost love was more likely to get the Losties to help her or at least to not kill her outright -- and having the picture seemed to prove her claim. One of Widmore's associates probably got the picture for him.

My thoughts are this: Naomi was sent ahead so that she could relay coordinates back to the freighter, just like she said. Knowing that she would most likely encounter someone, she needed a good cover story for why she was there. "I'm just here to relay coordinates back to a ship so some mercenaries can come over and kill Benjamin Linus and whoever else gets in the way" might not have gone over too well, but claiming to be working for Penny to find her long lost love was more likely to get the Losties to help her or at least to not kill her outright -- and having the picture seemed to prove her claim. One of Widmore's associates probably got the picture for him.

But the thing is, Penny WAS looking for them. So it's not like Widmore pulled that idea out of a hat and it just so happened to be true. It's totally unnecessary to come up with a lie for WHY the freighter was at the Island--it could be as simple as the fact that they've come to rescue the survivors. There doesn't need to be some extra layer about, "Oh yeah, and the rescue party is paid for by a rich girl who's in love with someone on the Island." None of the survivors will care about why they're there, they'd probably be more interested in HOW they found the Island.

And not only that, but Minkowski recognized Desmond's name, saying that the freighter had been receiving calls from Penny and the crew was under orders not to answer her calls. So there is a connection between Penny and the freighter. At the very least, even if she didn't have anything to do with Naomi, then she must have found out about the freighter and began calling it. But in my opinion, everything points to the fact that Naomi was being totally honest about Penny.

Actually, I like the idea...or at least bits and pieces of it....

It does make sense that, if Ben thought Keamy was working for him, he would have been so brazen in his conversation with him, since he would have thought Alex's life wasn't in any danger. And there's a possibility that these people simply gave different names to their two employers. Imagine a scene in which, after Penny asks Charlie, "who's Naomi?", Charlie (who just happens to have a snapshot of her!) flashes a picture of Naomi, and Penny replies "Ooohh! You mean Margaret! I get it!" :71:

Could that idea make the scene between Keamy and Gault work? If Ben actually did hire Keamy, but under a different name? But then, if Ben knew all about him under that name, presumably he would have known he was actually working for Widmore, too.

But Ben knew all about Keamy and co because his ''man on the boat'' Michael slipped info to him. And Michael had no way of knowing where Keamy's loyalties lay, he'd just be able to give surface info to Ben on the freightees, which seemed to be the case.

And there's a possibility that these people simply gave different names to their two employers. Imagine a scene in which, after Penny asks Charlie, "who's Naomi?", Charlie (who just happens to have a snapshot of her!) flashes a picture of Naomi, and Penny replies "Ooohh! You mean Margaret! I get it!" :71:

Could that idea make the scene between Keamy and Gault work? If Ben actually did hire Keamy, but under a different name? But then, if Ben knew all about him under that name, presumably he would have known he was actually working for Widmore, too.

OMG, that totally makes sense! Because of course Ben is going to hire Keamy under the pretense of being Widmore. Perhaps after being hired by Ben, Keamy did his homework and contacted the real Widmore, who gave him more money. If Keamy's smart, that's how he would play it--mercenaries are in it for the money, after all.

But Ben knew all about Keamy and co because his ''man on the boat'' Michael slipped info to him. And Michael had no way of knowing where Keamy's loyalties lay, he'd just be able to give surface info to Ben on the freightees, which seemed to be the case.

If my theory is correct, Michael is there as Ben's cover story. He is there to provide an explanation for how Ben knows who is on the freighter and why, and he is there to clean up the mess when it's over by blowing himself and the mercenaries up when Ben's done with them. Ben said from the beginning that the freighter belonged to Widmore. Before Michael even got on the freighter, that's what Tom told him.

But Ben knew all about Keamy and co because his ''man on the boat'' Michael slipped info to him. And Michael had no way of knowing where Keamy's loyalties lay, he'd just be able to give surface info to Ben on the freightees, which seemed to be the case.True, but Ben seems pretty good about having more than one source of information, playing one side against another without letting either side know he knows both, that sort of thing. Sure, he knew about Keamy from Michael, but that's not to say he only knew about Keamy from Michael.

But Ben knew all about Keamy and co because his ''man on the boat'' Michael slipped info to him. And Michael had no way of knowing where Keamy's loyalties lay, he'd just be able to give surface info to Ben on the freightees, which seemed to be the case.

What puzzles me is how Michael got the information to Ben.

Well, Secoura, I just watched Kevin Johnson and as I remember, Tom called him on his cell phone when he got on the freighter to see if he received that 'package' they sent him. So, maybe it was just simply through phone calls.

But, really, ya never know.

I think someone, and I will definitely try today, should watch the finale in season 4 to see the conversation again between Ben and Keamey when Ben is ready to kill him. I read the first post on the thread before I rewatched Shape of Things, and really, I can understand where the theory is coming from. But there certainly needs to be a stronger clue somewhere. I felt that when Ben met Widmore in his hotel room that it was clear that Ben didn't hire the mercenaries, but really, maybe Widmore knew that he had become involved hence the....this is your fault thing. But again, we can go back to Ben kicking Widmore off the island.

What puzzles me is how Michael got the information to Ben.

I couldn't remember off the top of my head either, so I had to look up the transcript for "Meet Kevin Johnson" on Lostpedia, which gave the answer. Ben called Michael from the Barracks, claiming to be Walt. When Michael answered it, Ben instructed him to get a list of everyone's names, and that the next time Ben calls the freighter, Michael will give him that list.

Thanks Max and Jonathan! I guess I was stuck on pondering how Ben made contact if Naomi couldn't contact the freighter until after Charlie turned off the jamming signal. Obviously Ben could have instructed the two at the Looking Glass to turn the signal off and then turn it back on after the phone call. That was my "duh!" moment for the day :biggrin:

Secoura, there are many "duh" moments in Lost!;)

Thanks Max and Jonathan! I guess I was stuck on pondering how Ben made contact if Naomi couldn't contact the freighter until after Charlie turned off the jamming signal. Obviously Ben could have instructed the two at the Looking Glass to turn the signal off and then turn it back on after the phone call. That was my "duh!" moment for the day :biggrin:

Actually, I think I'm the one having the "duh" moment, because you just made a good point I never thought about. With jamming going on, how DID Ben contact the freighter? I never thought about this being a problem, and there was no explanation ever given for how he was able to do it. So basically you not only brought up a problem that the show never addressed (but should have), you also solved it. Kudos, dude! :biggrin: