I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.

WHEN was the first instance of TT on Lost? What I mean by this is that TT is arguably the McGuffin of this series. So when did it first happen?

Dharma obviously had the TT facilities set up at the Orchid. Did they use it? If they did, when? Since TT seems to be the driving force behind the plot that has gotten us to the start of Season 6, it's relevance should be shown through the original use of it. Will we see that first instance of TT? Will that instance prove to be key to the overall nature of Lost?

Ben turned the wheel and travelled through time, making him the first person we as viewers saw to do it in a physical sense. Desmond turned the failsafe key, and travelled in time as well...but in a consiousness sense, prior to Ben.

Yes, I believe the first instance of time travel could be crucial to determining the nature of 'reality' on the show. Of course we wouldn't have seen the first instance yet. When was the first instance? I think probably a future relative to what we're seeing in 2007. How far out? Hard to guess.

Here's my theory on the original time travel event in a nutshell: There is a coming cataclysm (ELE) that needs to be avoided. I theorize that our Losties are the progenitors of the first time travelers who time traveled and crashed on the Island, creating a new reality- the one we've been watching. Jacob's want is to get a 'Grandfather paradox' (daddy issues) which collapses the reality (they left from) which was set to be destroyed by the calamity. He's going to do this using the Black Swan, Desmond Hume - who can access both timelines/realities. What this does is set our story, which always was the alternate universe relative to the other one, as the only reality left standing. But Jacob keeps trying and failing and the Man in Black is saying "let's get on with it". This time around (event cycle) it's different because Jacob finally decided to make use of technology (he brought Dharma there). The catch is the calamity is happening in both realities - because 'God' says so, so it's not as simple as just getting this new reality to stick. They've still got to stop the calamity, whatever it is.
Eh...it's an idea.

Then again Damon says on the Season 5 DVD (paraphrased) "we're not doing time travel because we want to, we're doing it because it's the best way to tell the story"...and yet they've also said in the last year or so that time travel has been in the DNA of the show since the beginning. So my guess is the early rough outline that he and JJ came up with involved a time travel event but they broke it out of the closet and used it more than they had originally planned 1- to get us used to the idea, because it's maybe involved in a big way at the end and 2- because it was the best way to tell the story.

So maybe they are totally done with time travel, maybe not. I don't think they need it to explain everything, especially (for one example) if they were always using aliens/angels-demons anyway.

re:macguffins
A strong case could be made (depending on what happens) for "The Sickness", the blood samples (if related) and the vaccinations etc. being the biggest macguffin on the series. Macguffins are just there to move the plot forward and can be substituted out for something else. I don't believe that the time travel on the show is a macguffin, personally.

A McGuffin is also used to express "a smoking gun...." I think there are several of these.... Locke's I can walk miracle ... this element of specialness necessitates a satisfying use of itself otherwise ... the audience will wonder why it was there in the first place. Jacob's touch is another.

Why would time travel be a nice way to tell a story...? It can move between significant events in a lifetime in quick jumps. It can be used as a con to make someone believe they are older or younger than they are or living in a time they really aren't ... decorate a room like heaven, knock someone unconscious and let them wake up there.

First instance of Time Travel. Possibly the Polar Bear that Charlotte discovers in Tunisia. If Dharma was training PB's to turn the frozen donkey wheel, like most of us assume, then a bear is probably some of the earliest cases.

Well, we know the time machine has existed since Egyptian times.

Per wikipedia and Lost University:
One significant limitation of such a time machine is that it is only possible to go as far back in time as the initial creation of the machine

If the time machine has been around that long, it wouldn't surprise me to learn someone has used it.

Before I get too confused on this...what are we referencing when we say "time machine"?

The device attached to the Frozen Donkey Wheel allows you to move through space, certainly, but has it been established that it moves through time as well? If so, does it move a consistent amount of time (the space appears to be consistent, you always end up in Tunisia).

We did see bunnies legitimately travel in time at the Orchid (which is, presumably, attached to the Frozen Donkey Wheel) -- but they didn't seem to have spent any time in Tunisia and their return was (to us) instantaneous...

...much like Des' experience. And what of Des? He was nowhere near the Wheel -- and his experience was different than the "Wheelies" (it appeared to be more of an out of body experience) -- but it was certainly time travel, wouldn't you agree?.

So what machine are we talking about? If it's the FailSafe Mechanism, how do you explain the bunnies? If it's the Wheel, how do you explain Des? Plus, the Wheel is very awkward. You can't program a particular time to go to, from what we've been shown, you always end up in Tunisia, plus it has the unfortunate side effects of banning you from the Mysterious Island for life (and moves the Mysterious Island when activated, which has to be inconvenient for all involved).

Help me ObiWan Kenobi, Damon & Carlton got me confused!

The Island is the "time machine", IMO.

Or it was rendered a "time machine" by whatever is buried under it.

Because according to Hawking in 316, it is moving in space and time.

I'm not sure Desmond TT or just was remembering his past. Could be either and soon we will know.

We still need to see how the island returns from the place/time Ben moved it to. Remember that it disappeared for the Oceanic Six in 2004, but it was there for Sun and Ben in 2007.

I'm not sure Desmond TT or just was remembering his past. Could be either and soon we will know.

It couldn't be either. How does he know to visit Daniel Faraday at Oxford if he's not time traveling from 1996 to 2004? How does he know what happens in the soccer match if he's not reliving the same event in FBYE? Let's make this simple, he was time traveling.

We still need to see how the island returns from the place/time Ben moved it to. Remember that it disappeared for the Oceanic Six in 2004, but it was there for Sun and Ben in 2007.

And it was there in all of 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 for Richard Alpert and (probably) Claire. It doesn't need to "return" from anywhere. Richard told Locke "I didn't go anywhere, you did" and when Flocke appeared to Richard, Richard said "it's been three years". So when Ben moved the Island, Locke disappeared, Richard didn't go anywhere, he spent three years waiting to see "Locke" again.

And it was there in all of 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 for Richard Alpert and (probably) Claire. It doesn't need to "return" from anywhere. Richard told Locke "I didn't go anywhere, you did" and when Flocke appeared to Richard, Richard said "it's been three years". So when Ben moved the Island, Locke disappeared, Richard didn't go anywhere, he spent three years waiting to see "Locke" again.

Yes, Richard didn't go anywhere because the Island took him with it. And when Ben turned the wheel, the Losties moved through time and the Others didn't, I guess because they are "attuned" to the Island, they are on the Island bus, so to say - while the Losties are on a different bus.
However, the Oceanic Six saw the Island disappear. Are you implying that the Island didn't move but the Oceanic Six did? I can imagine that the Island moved into another dimension or another place, it doesn't have to be time travel, but it seems that the Oceanic Six are back in the world they belong to and the Island is somewhere different.

I used to have a theory that says that you can only access the island every three years - and maybe the island jumps through time regularly and only stops at 3-year intervals. After all, we've seen the years 1974, 1977, 1980 (Dharma orientation videos), 1992 (the purge - Kelvin Inman gets onto the island shortly before the purge and after the Gulf War, must be 1992), 2001 (Desmond and Juliet), 2004 and 2007. Sadly, the arrivals of Rousseau's team and Mikhail Bakunin don't fit into this pattern.

I'm sorry ambergris, not trying to be difficult. I still don't know what you mean.
I'll just tell you what I believe and see if that helps.

The Island always moves in space-time. It moves at a slow rate and a fast rate.
The wheel cranks it up to a fast rate, otherwise the Island "idles" at the slow rate.
This is according to Damon Lindelof in a podcast, explaining the meaning of "always moving".

So Ben pushes the wheel and they hit the fast rate.
#1, the Island literally moves in space. So Hurley from the helicopter sees it disappear.
#2, relative to these people on the Island who aren't 'grounded' it's also moving in time.
#3, after a few days, John Locke sets the wheel on it's axis and it stops moving at the fast rate.

It's still January 2005, the island is basically now located at X, geographically. And it's moving at it's normal slow rate.

When the Oceanic Six are in their press conference in January 2005, the Island is at X -location.
The Island continues moving at it's slow rate.
Then in late 2007, early 2008, Eloise hawking finds it at location Y.
So the Oceanic Six return, etc.

From X-location to Y-location
Richard is on the island this whole roughly 3 year period. We agree that he goes nowhere in time.
What difference does seeing what happened on-Island to Richard in 2006 or Claire in 2007, if they are in either geographic location? It makes no difference. They can show a flashback on-Island during that period and not even pay mind at all to where they are, geographically.

This was what I was originally responding to.
We still need to see how the island returns from the place/time Ben moved it to.I just don't know why it matters, unless you are right, it's another realm.
Then how did Eloise find it? DId it "move back"? Maybe this is what you mean. It effectively hid somewhere. Anyway, if they already found it, why do we need to see it return to anywhere?

I hope you understand what I'm saying, you could be right and it moved somewhere important, but I don't see the significance currently.

Anyhow, I hope I helped maybe shine a light on my own opinion a little bit.
In any event, a few more days and we'll have something really exciting to talk about. :)

I'm sorry ambergris, not trying to be difficult. I still don't know what you mean.
I'll just tell you what I believe and see if that helps.

The Island always moves in space-time. It moves at a slow rate and a fast rate.
The wheel cranks it up to a fast rate, otherwise the Island "idles" at the slow rate.
This is according to Damon Lindelof in a podcast, explaining the meaning of "always moving".

So Ben pushes the wheel and they hit the fast rate.
#1, the Island literally moves in space. So Hurley from the helicopter sees it disappear.
#2, relative to these people on the Island who aren't 'grounded' it's also moving in time.
#3, after a few days, John Locke sets the wheel on it's axis and it stops moving at the fast rate.

It's still January 2005, the island is basically now located at X, geographically. And it's moving at it's normal slow rate.

When the Oceanic Six are in their press conference in January 2005, the Island is at X -location.
The Island continues moving at it's slow rate.
Then in late 2007, early 2008, Eloise hawking finds it at location Y.
So the Oceanic Six return, etc.

From X-location to Y-location
Richard is on the island this whole roughly 3 year period. We agree that he goes nowhere in time.
What difference does seeing what happened on-Island to Richard in 2006 or Claire in 2007, if they are in either geographic location? It makes no difference. They can show a flashback on-Island during that period and not even pay mind at all to where they are, geographically.

This was what I was originally responding to.
I just don't know why it matters, unless you are right, it's another realm.
Then how did Eloise find it? DId it "move back"? Maybe this is what you mean. It effectively hid somewhere. Anyway, if they already found it, why do we need to see it return to anywhere?

I hope you understand what I'm saying, you could be right and it moved somewhere important, but I don't see the significance currently.

Anyhow, I hope I helped maybe shine a light on my own opinion a little bit.
In any event, a few more days and we'll have something really exciting to talk about. :)


You're not difficult ;-). I understand what you're saying and before I joined this forum I believed exactly the same. I believed that the time distortion as measured by Faraday was caused by an interaction between the magnetic field of the island and the magnetic field of earth. So the slow movement of the island causes this small temporal distortion of half an hour while a higher movement causes a heavier distortion a.k.a. time travel (like the induction of current with a spool and a magnet). However, now I believe that some kind of "wormhole" effect must be involved in addition to the continuous movement. Otherwise I can't explain the Tunisia site and the sudden disappearance of the island when Ben turned the wheel.
BUT, this sudden disappearance (with the ocean filling the vacuum) might have been just for dramatic effect, maybe it was meant to be a continuous movement through space but that would have looked boring - like an iceberg slowly drifting away. In this case, Locke "un"-turning the wheel might have already been the effect I was looking for. And I was wondering about the new island location anyway, because Sydney-Los Angeles doesn't exactly cross Los Angeles-Guam.
One can probably unite the "higher speed" vs "wormhole" theories if one assumes that the higher speed causes the wormhole, like mass not only distorts space but also, at high density, creates a black hole.

The very 1st instance of time travel is episode 1, 1st scene of Jack's eye opening. Remember how we learned from Daniel how time is 'different' on the Island. His experiment with the device launched from the freighter proved that. remember how Sayid questioned Frank about leaving the Island at dusk & arriving at ship in the afternoon. ALL the events on the Island have taken place outside of the time & space of the reality that the Losties existed in while on board flight 815 before they crashed.
2 points to make about the time travel. the Losties from flight 815 have only traveled through time while on the Island.
Desmond is the only character we know who has time traveled while off the Island & his was a consciousness, not a physical jump. Daniel, his early girlfriend & Makowski from the freighter all have shown time slips, but we don't know to what extent they traveled, & they all ended up worse off for it. Elle Hawkins told Desmond he is special, & this is why.
Check out my theory about Desmond's time traveling here;
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=83065

However, now I believe that some kind of "wormhole" effect must be involved in addition to the continuous movement. Otherwise I can't explain the Tunisia site and the sudden disappearance of the island when Ben turned the wheel.
BUT, this sudden disappearance (with the ocean filling the vacuum) might have been just for dramatic effect, maybe it was meant to be a continuous movement through space but that would have looked boring - like an iceberg slowly drifting away. In this case, Locke "un"-turning the wheel might have already been the effect I was looking for. And I was wondering about the new island location anyway, because Sydney-Los Angeles doesn't exactly cross Los Angeles-Guam.
One can probably unite the "higher speed" vs "wormhole" theories if one assumes that the higher speed causes the wormhole, like mass not only distorts space but also, at high density, creates a black hole.

There's no question a wormhole has been hinted at in the subtext.

I think it's a pretty straightforward explanation actually.

From the perspective of the helicopter, which is outside of the radius created by the wormhole 'firing up', the spacetime literally in front of them (helicopter) changed. And you are right, the 'drop' we saw ("bloop" as Hurley said) was just for dramatic effect, for the benefit of the viewer. Otherwise people would be saying they were just on the wrong course or something.

The Island moves at the slower rate, when the wheel is turned it releases the negative matter that holds open the wormhole and things move a hell of a lot faster. The wormhole is 'anchored' to Tunisia. Without getting into a bunch of technical jargon, I believe this is the basic explanation.

1) Based on the bearing into the wormhole, various amounts of time dilation (time differences) occurs. So yes, I agree it could be argued some "time travel" occurred when 815 crashed on the Island.

2) If you look at the depiction of the wormhole at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel - the negative energy is identified at the throat of the wormhole. Shouldn't this be where the Island is, since it has the negative energy?

3) I think only the Orchid/FDW is part of a wormhole that is 'anchored' in Tunesia. Most people traveling to/from the Island use a sub/boat at a particular bearing out in the ocean. This is true for the Dharma sub, Michael & Walt, and the Freighter. Thus, there must be another 'mouth' of a wormhole out in the Ocean just off the Island, which I believe connects to different points on earth. Alternatively, there is a Roman ring of wormholes (see wiki linked above), and the Island is connected by a group of wormholes to Earth.

Considering 2 and 3 above, I wonder if the Island is technically at the throat of a wormhole, with one end 'anchored' in Tunesia and the other end connecting to different points on earth (i.e. moving from point to point). At the same time, the multiple 'pockets' of energy on the Island suggest multiple wormholes.

If you read this one way... "Your timing is impeccable, John... how did you know when to be here?" it could be referring to the Locke who comes out of the bushes with the bullet in his leg ... sort of a red herring.

I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.

WHEN was the first instance of TT on Lost? What I mean by this is that TT is arguably the McGuffin of this series. So when did it first happen?

Dharma obviously had the TT facilities set up at the Orchid. Did they use it? If they did, when? Since TT seems to be the driving force behind the plot that has gotten us to the start of Season 6, it's relevance should be shown through the original use of it. Will we see that first instance of TT? Will that instance prove to be key to the overall nature of Lost?

Ben turned the wheel and travelled through time, making him the first person we as viewers saw to do it in a physical sense. Desmond turned the failsafe key, and travelled in time as well...but in a consiousness sense, prior to Ben.

Ben seemed unfazed by it when he showed up in Tunisia months later than when he left, right? We know they were talking about it with people as long ago as 1954, so, at that point people became aware of the possibility. Whoever put the capstan (wheel) in the Orchid basement knew what it was capable of. I am of the mind that Jacob and MiB have been looping for 5,000 years, even though I don't believe they are ancient people. They may, in fact, be from the Losties own future (future Dharma perhaps?).

Ben seemed unfazed by it when he showed up in Tunisia months later than when he left, right? We know they were talking about it with people as long ago as 1954, so, at that point people became aware of the possibility. Whoever put the capstan (wheel) in the Orchid basement knew what it was capable of. I am of the mind that Jacob and MiB have been looping for 5,000 years, even though I don't believe they are ancient people. They may, in fact, be from the Losties own future (future Dharma perhaps?).

exactly

It has always troubled me that one of the best candidates for time travel has been Richard, as he doesn't appear to age, and yet, he seemed completely oblivious to time travel when first approached by Locke in '54. He later accredits his non-aging to Jacob. Is it possible that Richard time traveled and didn't know it?

I am of the mind that Jacob and MiB have been looping for 5,000 years, even though I don't believe they are ancient people. They may, in fact, be from the Losties own future (future Dharma perhaps?).

Aren't there a few threads around here about Jacob being Aaron or someone else from the future? I'll have to go look at what the supporting evidence is...

Aren't there a few threads around here about Jacob being Aaron or someone else from the future? I'll have to go look at what the supporting evidence is...

Thanks. I've been on hiatus. I have also been toying around with that idea that fair-haired Aaron grows up to be hair-haired Jacob. Reuniting Aaron with Claire is Kate's state purpose for returning to the island. Maybe she will make that happen after all. Only, instead of bring Claire to him, the child will be brought back to the island.

I'm not trying to complain about the rules of time travel on the show. I love it and I am willing to suspend some disbelief, however there doesn't seem to be much consistancy. Here's the points of veiw when Ben turned the FDW:
The 06 saw the Island move in space (and possibly time). The evidence is visual (the 06 saw it) and physical (water filled in the space). Other than that, time is and had been pretty consistant for them. They were on the Island 108 days and when they left the Island it was 108 days later.
The Others did not seem to notice anything move. The Island could have physically moved without them knowing. Time seems pretty consistant. Richard told leg-shot Locke that HE (Locke) disappeared and when Flocke returned Richard told him it had been three years, the same amount as for folks off-Island. This leads me to believe that for these two groups, (06 and the Others) time on the Island moves the same as time off the Island.
The Losties saw a flash and then were in the Island's past. The Island did not move in time, or else the survivors' camp, the Orchid station, etc. would be in the "real world" 70's. The theory that the Island moves to differnent dimensions is interesting, but we've seen examples of people from the Island communicating with people off-Island in the "same" reality, such as Richard recording Juliet's nephew (Juliet helped her sister get pregnant), the Red Sox winning the world series, and Losties communicating with the freighter.
Ben was thrown in time and space. He ended up 10 months later on the other side of the planet.

This makes me wonder about Ms. Hawkings and Daniel's description of the Island's time properties. She said the Island moves through "time and space" and Daniel said it was like a "skipping record." This is weird to me though. Unless the Island was in '04 when the plane crashed, skipped around time a lot, and just happened to end up back on '04 108 days later, skipped around a lot and then just happened to be in '07 three years later when Ajira crashed, then it seems like the Island is moving through time at the same speed as everything else.
And what about Daniel's rocket experiement? That showed that the Island's time is different as did the doctor's body washing up on the Island before he was murdered off the Island. Seems inconsistant to me. What exactly did the FDW do...it seems it a) threw Ben off the Island and into the future b) sent the Losties back in time c) moved the Island in current time to another location d) nothing (if you where on the Island).
And one more thing. Ms. Hawking said the Island couldn't be found because it was moving through time and space. But it was in SOME space in the Pacific on September 22, 2004 and in the same place from when Desmond turned the failsafe key until the freighter arrived. So what gives? How could no one find it.
I have absolute faith that the writer's will tie up many of these loose ends (they still have yet to explain the pallet drop there's always that), but for now it seems like they've given themselves too much room with the "rules." I'm looking foward to tomorrow when they begin to lay it out for us!

The Others did not seem to notice anything move. The Island could have physically moved without them knowing. Time seems pretty consistant. Richard told leg-shot Locke that HE (Locke) disappeared and when Flocke returned Richard told him it had been three years, the same amount as for folks off-Island. This leads me to believe that for these two groups, (06 and the Others) time on the Island moves the same as time off the Island.
The Losties saw a flash and then were in the Island's past. The Island did not move in time, or else the survivors' camp, the Orchid station, etc. would be in the "real world" 70's. The theory that the Island moves to differnent dimensions is interesting, but we've seen examples of people from the Island communicating with people off-Island in the "same" reality, such as Richard recording Juliet's nephew (Juliet helped her sister get pregnant), the Red Sox winning the world series, and Losties communicating with the freighter.
!

The Losties weren't the only ones who saw the flash.

From Follow The Leader:

RICHARD: So, John... you, uh, you ready to tell me where you've been the last three years?
LOCKE: You really don't know?
RICHARD: Well, I know that on the day that Ben here turned the wheel, that you and I were sitting on a log. There was a bright light. There was a loud noise, and then you just... you disappeared.
So I'd say the Others were aware that something happened.

But back to the issue of the ever-moving island.

Compare the island to, let's say, an airplane. When you are sitting in the plane you don't feel yourself hurtling through the sky because you are moving at the same speed as the atmosphere around you (the plane). If you are on the island you aren't going to be aware of the movement because you are moving with it -- it would appear to you that the objects outside the island were moving. It is only from outside the island that you would perceive the island's movement. So the island could very well have traveled after Flight 815 crashed and returned to a point that put it almost in line with time in the outside world, thus allowing the island to be found.

Yeah, but it's not quite like an airplane. An airplane moves from point a to point be in a line. The Island seemed to teleport to a different point without moving through the space in between. And if you were on the Island when this happened you could tell because the reference points (i.e. stars, clouds, wind) would be different.
And good call on the quote. I seem to remember some other point when Richard said he DIDN'T notice the light. Perhaps in Because You Left when he was taking the bullet out of Locke's leg. And he didn't seem to notice in Jughead. Oh well.

Yeah, but it's not quite like an airplane. An airplane moves from point a to point be in a line. The Island seemed to teleport to a different point without moving through the space in between. And if you were on the Island when this happened you could tell because the reference points (i.e. stars, clouds, wind) would be different.
And good call on the quote. I seem to remember some other point when Richard said he DIDN'T notice the light. Perhaps in Because You Left when he was taking the bullet out of Locke's leg. And he didn't seem to notice in Jughead. Oh well.

I think there has been evidence of movement -- the sudden "end of the world" type weather (to quote Charlie) that comes on suddenly; in "Whatever The Case May Be", Sayid comments that the tide is rising too fast to be normal.

As for the quote, I think the only reason it stood out to me when I rewatched that episode is because it did seem that Richard didn't notice anything during the other flashes -- only during the initial flash when Ben turned the wheel.

WHEN was the first instance of TT on Lost?</p>I don't think we've seen one yet.

I would like to present my thoughts on the time travel, rather how it works.

There is negatively charged exotic matter in the ice caves behind the wheel. It has been enclosed in something with an apiture type opening at the top and this apiture is controled by turning the wheel. The exotic matter is a black body and quite possibly a singularity. A black body needs to be cold or it expels large doses of electromagnetism. When the wheel is turned it allows the exotic matter to heat and expel this em. In nature, when this happens there is something called an ultraviolet catastrophy that occurs. This is the purple sky event. The em holds open a wormhole, which ends in Tunisia. This force of the em's expulsion moves the island through spacetime at a higher rate of speed. The Swan computer controled the buildup of em from the black body by safely expelling it every 108 minutes. It built up to a "maximum capacity" when Desmond turned the failsafe key and he released this energy rapidly. This caused him to time travel. If you noticed he seemed to be bouncing back and forth in time, kind of like a ping-pong ball. As the energy dissipated his time trips became shorter. When the wheel is turned it is an emormous, natural release of the em. This is enough to hold open the wormhole. The casimir effect is movement in a vacuum. That vacuum is spacetime. It is so dangerous and is the last resort because there is no way to control this release or tell how much em will be expelled. The losties seemed to be "in tune" with the island as it moved and they moved with it. That, I cannot explain. I don't see any science behind it. Dan's journal had a big clue. It showed a diagram of spheres with lines connecting them and some were noted "real time," "real space," "imaginary time," "imaginary space." This is pointing to wave function. The alternate universes being created, probably when a major event occurs like young Ben being shot (and would explain why his bullet wound appears to have changed sides of his chest). I believe we have been watching these alternate realities throughout the entire series. They have been similar but with small differences. It is quantum mechanics answer to the existance of alternate universes and is called Many-Worlds Interpretation. There are many variations of this theory and I lean towards the Copenhagen Interpretation, where there is no observer necessary to collapse an alt world. I believe that it is caused by mathematical probability, which fits in to why all of the games on LOST. I think the games represent Exptime and Pspace and these are basically the probabilities of how many moves can be made in the game based on the number of squares of the board. Anyway, sorry for rambling, it all seems to fit scientifically, even if it is science theory only.

An example of the time travel also causing a new universe, or bubble or alt world, can be found in the Orchid video. When the bunny is sent into spacetime and drops back out of it behind Chang, the room is ever so slightly different. The objects on the shelves behind him have changed or they are in different places. It is a new reality. Check it out and see for yourselves.

And what about Daniel's rocket experiement? That showed that the Island's time is different as did the doctor's body washing up on the Island before he was murdered off the Island. Seems inconsistant to me.!

It's not inconsistent, the freighter was not inside the radius, therefore Daniel's little rocket had to travel a specific path in order to experience no time disturbance. But it didn't, so it was proof for Daniel that they had to follow that specific bearing in the helicopter.

The dead body was thrown over board outside the radius as well and entered the Island's radius and experienced the strange time effects, it showed up before he was dead.

This was a crude way of introducing past time travel.

Two things about the "airplane" example. It doesn't quite work, IMO.
It works to display what Secoura was talking about, relative to the moving object, you appear to go nowhere. But the radius distorts the field of vision, think of being on that helicopter and being able to look straight into the mouth of that wormhole at a 305 bearing. When the Island moves, the 'doorway' changes, relative to you.

It's also the same reason they never see airplanes flying by or ships far out at sea, the Island is in it's own bubble relative to everything else outside of that radius. So when the Island moves, you wouldn't be able to tell from sitting or standing on the Island and tryign to observe the clouds, the clouds aren't moving any differently.

Think of the whole Island 'realm' as a bubble of space time. If the bubble moves, you wouldn't know it from observing the sky or sea.

I agree that if the island were moving in space and time they couldn't get current events and traveling by sub to the mainland. Also how would Ann Arbor possibly keep up on the changes to constantly know where to drop food. The coordinates to get on and off would be totally changed each time. I don't understand this point at all,lol.

If there was a stable aperture to the wormhole in Tunisia, why didn't the Dharma people build a station there. They built a station everywhere else.