Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

The dialog between Jack and Richard was silly.

We're still thinking about Ben's story. Hmmm, not sure what to make out of it. Ben as a noble teacher doing the right thing for Alex???

Anyway, so now we have two camps sans Jin and Sawyer. Wonder where they are.

At least we have the two sides lining up. That's good. Otherwise, the jury for us is still out on this one.

The dialog between Jack and Richard was silly.

We're still thinking about Ben's story. Hmmm, not sure what to make out of it. Ben as a noble teacher doing the right thing for Alex???

Anyway, so now we have two camps sans Jin and Sawyer. Wonder where they are.

At least we have the two sides lining up. That's good. Otherwise, the jury for us is still out on this one.

Last week Claire asked Locke why he's not sending in Jin or Sawyer to speak to Dogen, so that's where they are.

Last week Claire asked Locke why he's not sending in Jin or Sawyer to speak to Dogen, so that's where they are.

I was just saying they they didn't have screen time. They're probably at the Hydra Island.

Anyway, we didn't see them in this episode or the last one.

Every week is the same. Plot inches along at a snails pace. Flash forwards showing how character of the week "found" their way. I got it move on already, I stopped caring about these characters several seasons ago. Terrible dialog, characters acting like morons, and more plot holes. Week after week of filler, cut to the chase already or island sinking in this case.

I'm a little shocked seeing the overwhelming response in the "Loved It" thread, I thought this episode was pretty awful. Of course, no answers were given and nothing was accomplished, but that seems par for the course this season. The whole storyline with Ben as a teacher, trying to take over as principal - seriously, does anyone really even care? Seemed like a huge waste of time to me, but then again, that's the standard in season 6. And Richard has become a whiny little girl, what he hell has happened to him?

But the worst was that awful, sappy, slow-motion reunion scene near the end of the episode. It was just screaming out, "Gee, let's pretend we're Season One because we've obviously got nothing to offer in Season Six." Sorta sad and pathetic from a show that used to be cutting edge.

There weren't any answers again. We had *wink* moment of m-a-y-b-e Richard came over on the Black Rock and another open statement about the candidates. That's it.

And Miles turning into a *gasp* grave robber playing with diamonds at the end? Another super slow mo reunion of the lost coming back to the beach AGAIN. This was touching when we saw it the first time four years ago and it has lost it's emotion as it is nothing but filler to see it again and again.

Is anyone else totally turned off by these ham handed force feeds of people showing up in alts? The Alex/Ben reunion was nothing but creepy. What does this have to do with anything?

I think Doc Artz had the right idea. Tell me what I want to know or get the hell out.

I honestly think this is going to end like the Sopranos...snap to black and we will be left to make up our own minds as to what happened.

... Another super slow mo reunion of the lost coming back to the beach AGAIN. This was touching when we saw it the first time four years ago and it has lost it's emotion as it is nothing but filler to see it again and again.

Is anyone else totally turned off by these ham handed force feeds of people showing up in alts? The Alex/Ben reunion was nothing but creepy. What does this have to do with anything?

I think Doc Artz had the right idea. Tell me what I want to know or get the hell out.

When the slo-mo scene started, MamaThor and I looked at each other and said, "Oh, brother!"

That was sooooooo cheesy. That kind of dramatic effect only works once. This time it was just so bad.

The Alex and Ben connection is just so far fetched as are so many of the other connections. It really is stretching the imagination.

Yep This is just getting Pathetic. Last Season.
Counting Down, All the mysteries to solve and we get filler episodes.
And Reunions on the Beach. They have lost there meaning.

That was sooooooo cheesy. That kind of dramatic effect only works once. This time it was just so bad.

The Alex and Ben connection is just so far fetched as are so many of the other connections. It really is stretching the imagination.

Especially considering they JUST used a slow-mo ending last episode. Different emotional tone, but still. Slow mo isn't something you should be constantly using on any show. Once a season is more than enough.

I appreciate the nod to previous episodes, but at some point, I'd rather have new content to make the current show mean something to me than constant nods to when the show did mean something more to me.

The Alex thing was just dumb. They could of easily accomplished the same scenario with another, unknown, student. The flash-sideways are just impossibly unbelievable at this point. I understand things being different in another universe, but I don't understand EVERYONE living in the same 5 mile radius of LA.

The point in the first two seasons was that all these people from vastly different backgrounds were interconnected in ways they didn't know. The way they are showing people's connectedness this season is way too blatant and implausible.

No surprise that the Flash Sideways continue to be a cameo of the week bore. It's painfully obvious that they don't have much story left to tell as they're spending so much time with the Flash Sideways. They're cheesey, contrived, and boring.


Let's recap....


Artz complains about a lack of lab aprons... I almost expected Ben to say something like, there you go blowing up again... and then wink at the camera.

Alex as Ben's AP student, who needs tutoring in history, and wants to get into Yale? She's also hoping to make the cheerleading squad and go steady with Karl the school's hunky quarterback.

And the whole "pervert" principal sex/email plot line was cheesey. The Flash Sideways plots are ripped straight from Lifetime's made for TV movies. Expect Meredith Baxter-Birney to pop up soon as Richard's abused housewife.

Llana tells Ben that Jacob was the closest thing she had to a father, finds out he killed Jacob, but doesn't ask why and just walks away. Later, of course, she grabs her gun and makes him dig his own grave (get it?). So instead of just killing Ben, Llana pulls a cartoon Bond villain move delaying Ben's death so he can escape. Locke shows up and uses his newfound telekinetic powers to release Ben's shackles. Hmm.

Llana tells Sun that either her or Jin is a candidate to replace Jacob. Sun asks to do what? Llana says... *insert cryptic Lost character reply here*

Hurley and Jack run into Richard while strolling through the jungle... because characters bump into each other in the jungle all the time now in season 6.

Richard says he has something he has to do at the Black Rock. Jack asks what. Richard says... *insert cryptic Lost character reply here*

Instead of telling Richard he'll help him kill himself if he answers some questions, Jack plays chicken with the dynamite fuse. Tense moment huh? I actually thought it was going to explode and kill Richard and Jack.

When he finds out Ben's plan to blackmail perverted Principal guy, Arzt says to Ben, "You're a real killer"... and resists the urge to wink at the camera.

Slo-mo beach montage? I threw up a little in my mouth. Enough said.

I almost expected Ben to say something like, there you go blowing up again... and then wink at the camera.

LOL
well, they certainly did everything but that, sadly it wouldn't have been out of place anymore.

People in this thread have already broken down what I disliked about the episode. The main problem is that the story is not moving at all. I understand that you can't just give all the answers in one episode, but no answers are being given at all, and the manner of the story telling is so tedious on-island. The off-island stuff still makes no difference to anything so it's been a waste of time so far. There are no hints at all that it will ever make a difference, no connection at all, so I don't know how we are supposed to take it. If they could at least give some little clue as to what relevance it will have, it would make it easier to digest, add some mystery to it. But instead it's like 2 separate shows

Another waste of an episode. And people actually Loved it!! Amazing. Same thing is repeated. The Flash Sideways once again was meaningless filler. I believe one can actually edit the tiny important parts from all the episodes sans the finale & make a single hour-long episode & it would still make sense (if 'making sense' is the intention of TPTB at all).

Oh yeah, no doubt about it this is another installation of "Lost: A Moment of Truth, the Ben Edition" weekly movie brought to you by the Lifetime network.

Seriously? They couldn't have come up with a better flash-sideways story? Caring teacher, corrupt principal.. blah blah. No twists, no interest. I would have prefered the story if after the principal had sent out the recommendation letter, Ben went ahead with his plan and blackmailed him. Having your cake and eating it too, etc. But no, Linus has apparently turned into a big ole ball of wus. If we have to continue to endure FS stuff, could it please be written in a way that does NOT insult my intelligence?

There are many faults with this episode and others have stated it more eloquently than I can at 7am.

Can anyone tell me why Alex is attending an English school? Aren't her parents French?

Why have the themes of the first few seasons become the plot of the show? The theme of characters with issues that need to be resolved on a crazy island where scientific experiments happened was a cool premise. Now drop all the science and the theme has become the plot. It's weird, off putting and I can't get invested in it.

BTW anyone giving this episode a 10 is a blind fanboy. I can no longer take fans of this show that praise every turd seriously. This episode loses 3 points just for the flash sideways.

Why this episode didn't work for me....

1. No Sawyer for the third episode in a row. Was he off shooting other work?

2. No other cast members for so long now that a certain momentum has expired. I've actually forgotten about Desmond, though I feel certain he'll be in someone's sideways. I've also forgotten that Sun and Jin haven't seen each other in three years and that I should be anxiously hoping for their reunion.

3. Ben as a lonely, noble teacher let him show off his acting chops, but honestly, I preferred Machiavelli Island Ben. And the idea that Alex (mysteriously in America) had her whole Ivy League future hinging on a recommendation letter was just dumb.

4. I feel like we've seen the shot of long-gone survivors coming around that one bush on the beach, while other castways spot them and a joyful, musical reunion ensues, at least ten times.

5. Richard has always been cool, patient, level-headed. Now he's suddenly having an existential crisis? Not buying it. And we need more answers on his story.

6. I don't like Ilana. I just don't. Her character doesn't work for me. I was hoping Ben would shoot her.

7. Lapidus, Sun and Miles collectively had about eight lines of dialogue. I just can't stand seeing characters I really enjoy reduced to extras.

8. It felt like another slow, purposeless episode in the vein of last week's - lethargic pacing and boring plot until the last five minutes, when a twist was dished up.

I ripped on you last week Beema, but you're dead on this week. Horrible episode. I was really hoping that the ending would be an awesome cliffhanger and totally redeem things. What a joke of an episode. ***Mod edited***


Especially considering they JUST used a slow-mo ending last episode. Different emotional tone, but still. Slow mo isn't something you should be constantly using on any show. Once a season is more than enough.

I appreciate the nod to previous episodes, but at some point, I'd rather have new content to make the current show mean something to me than constant nods to when the show did mean something more to me.

The Alex thing was just dumb. They could of easily accomplished the same scenario with another, unknown, student. The flash-sideways are just impossibly unbelievable at this point. I understand things being different in another universe, but I don't understand EVERYONE living in the same 5 mile radius of LA.

The point in the first two seasons was that all these people from vastly different backgrounds were interconnected in ways they didn't know. The way they are showing people's connectedness this season is way too blatant and implausible.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about a Yale "quality" student needing help in 8th grade level history and the sob story of if not Yale, then no college. Pretty sure there are a lot more schools than Yale in which she can apply and even get aid.Or other Yale folks to write said letter.

Loved the creepy principal angle too. Yesh, good to see he has range instead of playing creepy news reporter TMZ goof types all the time.

The Not Locke wink that released Ben's shackles was absurd as was the hide and seek with the gun. Why not just give it to him or better yet, Let Ilana die from smoke poisoning??

The toy sub at the end was kinda weird too. Oh goody, another plot point.

I should add the whole black rock scene was just absurd.

Starting with the huge island that is so big random plot devices can be found that were never seen before but so small that people taking all day jungle treks run into each other.

Then we have the whole "touched by Jacob" non-sense. You can't commit suicide but assisted suicide is okay? Playing with unstable dynamite is suicidal therefore it won't blow up but sitting next to a lit stick of dynamite will get you killed because clearly that isn't sucidal? Asking someone to kill you isn't suicide? Nevermind, a couple episodes ago where Sayid couldn't be killed but could only kill himself. Also forget about several seasons ago when the "island won't let you die". Just change the rules to whatever you want to fit this weeks episode.

All the plot holes aside, what was the point? "I want to kill myself because my whole life is meaningless". "I'm going to stay here too, let's talk", "Okay, we didn't blow up. I guess I'm happy with life again and no longer want to die", "Nice talk we had about nothing, glad I risked my life for those answers...."

For 6 seasons now, the characters rarely try to get answers that people in their position would. As we know, when they do ask something, it's met with a cryptic non-answer and the character just accepts it and asks no follow up.

So why didn't Jack try to get some answers from Richard? Richard was desperate to have Jack help him die. Jack could have said he'd help but only after Richard told him everything he knew. After all, Richard seems to like Jack and besides if he's going to die so why wouldn't he tell Jack what he knows about the island, Widmore, Jacob, Smokey, Dharma, etc.?

After Richard told him everything, then Jack could have gave his little speech and lit the dynamite.

But no, this is Lost. The characters actions and motivations are a joke. Situations are so unbelievably contrived. The characters have to be written as idiots because Lindelof and Cuse need to crow bar them into and out of situations to create "mystery".

Please pardon the long form rambling.. in short, no, I did not love it. In long...

Believe it or not, even though I've been ragging on lost since season 2's frog episode, I DO WANT Demon and Curse to pull this off. I would genuinely love to have this series end in a striking, memorable fashion. I REALLY WOULD. Since the appearance of Jacob and the "a wizard did it" explanation, half of me has been hoping it's a wonderful red herring, a total misdirection, and in the final episodes, D&C will yank the rug and reveal something truly interesting, not just a rehash of the (admittedly wonderful) Babylon 5 story arc of Shadows vs Light for the Destiny of Man. Something unexpected.
D&C suggest this is so - with talk of an episode a few away that features no cast members and occurs in "a place you've never seen on a tv show before" - they are baiting us with the notion that Jacob and MIB are NOT the big reveal..
I do HOPE.

Hope got smacked in the face in the first 5 minutes of last night's episode. It was the first one of season 6 that I watched throughout... admittedly while wandering in and out of the room. But within the first FEW MINUTES:
Open on Hurley - he is hungry and asking about breakfast. (Hurley fat, check)
Hurley and Jack begin jungle trek to incredibly campy comedy music not too far from Gilligans island music cues (Hurley, being fat, is funny. check)
Which way is the temple? (on again-off again jungle trekking-tracking powers, check)
Within seconds, they both run into Alpert (perfectly timed jungle bump into, check)
"Where'd you come from" "You wouldn't believe me if i told you" "Try me" "Not just yet". (vital question dodged, character accepts moronic non answer, check)
"Follow me" "Dude are you gonna trust that guy" "at least he isn't stalling" (idiotic reason to trust and follow someone)

Not too much later I catch Ben talking to Miles, turns out Miles was supposed to fly 815 (pointless retcon of dot-connecting, check)
Ben gets a close up and sweet moment, and a gun barrel appears at his neck. Cha clik. (gun cocked, check.)

Too much ~ I can't sit still for this, so lose focus, but get to see all the old crutches brought out, yawwwwwn. I notice still no Sawyer, apparently chilling in a cave without rope ladders to use to exit, since he broke them getting in. I see the Black Rock but learn nothing new. I get references to Artz and other S1 events and characters but they amount to, and illuminate, nothing. "When Jacob touches you you get a gift". Oh. A wizard did it, yup. By the end of the show, Locke is inviting Ben to The Other Other Island, you know, the one everyone forgot existed in season 5? Which, I dunno, moved with the main island while time hopping yet remaining invisible, the one Ben was gonna swim to from the main island to join The Smoke Lockester, the island that is not visible from a helicopter... that connects to the main island via.. who knows?

And having missed a great deal of season 5 and this, I have to ask - have they addressed, at all, the 40+ other survivors? Did they ever die like they were supposed to? Did they time-trip? Do they get flash-whatevers?

Exhaustingly pointless and predictable and self-contradictory. At this point, season 6 seems to have been written as some sort of EFF YOU to the complainers like myself. You couldn't put together a parody of the show that brought the flaws into higher relief.

I HOPE they have something great in store. But it is probably a fool's hope. Thank God the show is also bad enough to make it fun to rag on, or I'd feel even worse about wasting these hours of my life.

...

But no, this is Lost. The characters actions and motivations are a joke. Situations are so unbelievably contrived. The characters have to be written as idiots because Lindelof and Cuse need to crow bar them into and out of situations to create "mystery"....


Bingo! I think you have just about summed it all up.

Open on Hurley - he is hungry and asking about breakfast. (Hurley fat, check)

Hurley and Jack begin jungle trek to incredibly campy comedy music not too far from Gilligans island music cues (Hurley, being fat, is funny. check)

I HOPE they have something great in store. But it is probably a fool's hope. Thank God the show is also bad enough to make it fun to rag on, or I'd feel even worse about wasting these hours of my life.

Hurley dreaming about food once again. Yeah, we get it - big and tall guys always dream about food. Give the guy a break. At least he didn't utter, "Mallomars."

Upon waking it would have been quite endearing if he had said, "Libby."

And that hokey music they played when Jack and Hurley started their trek to the Temple. What would have been more fitting is if we had heard "The Baby Elephant Walk."

As far as ragging on the show, you know, sometimes it's more fun to rag on a show if there's stuff to rag on. And for the past few episodes, there is.
100%
But no, this is Lost. The characters actions and motivations are a joke. Situations are so unbelievably contrived. The characters have to be written as idiots because Lindelof and Cuse need to crow bar them into and out of situations to create "mystery".

In most other shows, "mystery" is keeping information from the viewers. In Lost, it's just dragging things on for a long time. We really wish the characters were a little sharper and not so dense as to not press for answers.

Hurley dreaming about food once again. Yeah, we get it - big and tall guys always dream about food. Give the guy a break. At least he didn't utter, "Mallomars."

Upon waking it would have been quite endearing if he had said, "Libby."


Yes, it surely would have - if these writers loved the characters like their viewers do, they might have done this simple, touching act. But of late they've been doing pathos with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel

Nowadays there always seems to be one scene where they just go over-the-top (over-the-shark?) with some random, unnecessary new plot invention. Last week it was "Dogen himself was keeping Smokey out of the Temple!" This week it's "Locke can use the Force!"


I understand that you can't just give all the answers in one episode, but no answers are being given at all, and the manner of the story telling is so tedious on-island.I think the tediousness and lack of answers are related on the frustration scale. If the plot was more than just characters waiting around for something to happen (or walking to a place where they will eventually wait around for something to happen), we wouldn't notice that with all this time they have, they could be asking for details about the mysterious things happening from those in the know who are right there with them!

Right now they've got Ilana, Ben and Richard. And no questions.

BTW anyone giving this episode a 10 is a blind fanboy.There is something about someone saying, "I thought this episode was mostly boring. I gave it an 8."

I'm a little shocked seeing the overwhelming response in the "Loved It" thread, I thought this episode was pretty awful.

I'm shocked as well. It sucked. Bad. My standards are very low for this show since I know that it's ending and they can't drag their feet anymore, but man, last night's episode was awful. I could have sworn that most would think this was the worst episode of the season and the tipping point for what has been a very bad sixth season so far.

Mostly, my reaction is "whatever" since we're so close to the end, but I have to admit my anxiety level is increasing because there is so much to wrap up and now we're down to just 9 episodes. I'm worried there won't be enough time to address everything meaningfully and give it its proper weight and time.

As far as the side-ways filler, they had better be ultra-important in the end -- like that's the "real" time-line and we've been unknowingly watching all of the characters post show/island fate all this time -- or else that is just one massive waste of time/misdirection to hide the fact they don't have enough real story to tell. Coming off of season five, I thought we were past that non-sense.

A very frustrating and poorly done episode, but somehow the best of the season. And by that, I mean it was like a 2, instead of a 1. Probably because of Ben's acting, and the fact that most of the characters are at least consolidated in 2 places. Hopefully we can begin something interesting and rewarding?

I also began screaming at the TV when the slow motion began. The past few episodes, I've been watching in absolute boredom for 45 minutes, pretty much just waiting for the finale where hopefully they'll give us any kind of hint that things are going to get excited, and when they actually turned on the slow-mo for a Sun-Jack-Hurley reunion I flipped out. Sun hasn't seen them for a week or two, tops, and it's not like any of these people were ever close anyway.

Remember when Season 3 was supposed to be boring and not going anywhere? I would take 50 episodes of Season 3 over this. I would take an entire Nikki and Paulo season over this.

Admittedly this episode was better than last week's, but a less bad episode is still bad. The slow-mo reunion scene particularly highlighted how hollow, emotionless, and unnatural this show has become. Sigh. I want to like this show, I really do... I still love the first three seasons... but you're not giving me much to work with here. :drowsy:

Three words for this episode:

Stink, Stank, Stunk...

***Mod edited - off topic***

colin72 - I'm in steadfast agreement with pretty much all of your criticisms. Just out of personal curiosity though, was there ever a point in time that you felt the show wasn't perpetrating these things, where you really enjoyed it? I only ask because I could definitely see many of these points applying to previous seasons (although not to the degree they do now).

colin72 - I'm in steadfast agreement with pretty much all of your criticisms. Just out of personal curiosity though, was there ever a point in time that you felt the show wasn't perpetrating these things, where you really enjoyed it? I only ask because I could definitely see many of these points applying to previous seasons (although not to the degree they do now).

Just to jump in. I know that it has been the case with the show from the beginning. That they didn't ask questions, that mystery after mystery was revealed with no answer, contrived situations just for certain things to happen. It's true. But now that it's the final season those things are supposed to come to light and start making sense. Instead it continues and we are being told that those mysteries didn't matter.

So it's magnified to me and the worthless flash sideways are only adding insult to injury.

Just to jump in. I know that it has been the case with the show from the beginning. That they didn't ask questions, that mystery after mystery was revealed with no answer, contrived situations just for certain things to happen. It's true. But now that it's the final season those things are supposed to come to light and start making sense. Instead it continues and we are being told that those mysteries didn't matter.

So it's magnified to me and the worthless flash sideways are only adding insult to injury.

I agree. Many of these shortcomings were much more forgivable back then, because as far as we knew, there was all the time in the world to resolve them. Now we have no time and it's more of the same. What's worse for me is knowing that Darlton themselves set their own end date, and yet continued to throw in all these tangential plot lines during seasons 3 - 5 that they never intended to resolve, or at the very least, knew they wouldn't have time to resolve, given the storyline they WANTED to tell.

No surprise that the Flash Sideways continue to be a cameo of the week bore. It's painfully obvious that they don't have much story left to tell as they're spending so much time with the Flash Sideways. They're cheesey, contrived, and boring.


Let's recap....


Artz complains about a lack of lab aprons... I almost expected Ben to say something like, there you go blowing up again... and then wink at the camera.

Alex as Ben's AP student, who needs tutoring in history, and wants to get into Yale? She's also hoping to make the cheerleading squad and go steady with Karl the school's hunky quarterback.

And the whole "pervert" principal sex/email plot line was cheesey. The Flash Sideways plots are ripped straight from Lifetime's made for TV movies. Expect Meredith Baxter-Birney to pop up soon as Richard's abused housewife.

Llana tells Ben that Jacob was the closest thing she had to a father, finds out he killed Jacob, but doesn't ask why and just walks away. Later, of course, she grabs her gun and makes him dig his own grave (get it?). So instead of just killing Ben, Llana pulls a cartoon Bond villain move delaying Ben's death so he can escape. Locke shows up and uses his newfound telekinetic powers to release Ben's shackles. Hmm.

Llana tells Sun that either her or Jin is a candidate to replace Jacob. Sun asks to do what? Llana says... *insert cryptic Lost character reply here*

Hurley and Jack run into Richard while strolling through the jungle... because characters bump into each other in the jungle all the time now in season 6.

Richard says he has something he has to do at the Black Rock. Jack asks what. Richard says... *insert cryptic Lost character reply here*

Instead of telling Richard he'll help him kill himself if he answers some questions, Jack plays chicken with the dynamite fuse. Tense moment huh? I actually thought it was going to explode and kill Richard and Jack.

When he finds out Ben's plan to blackmail perverted Principal guy, Arzt says to Ben, "You're a real killer"... and resists the urge to wink at the camera.

Slo-mo beach montage? I threw up a little in my mouth. Enough said.
This pretty much sums it all up for me. Many laughs in that post, so no need to add to that.
100%
For 6 seasons now, the characters rarely try to get answers that people in their position would. As we know, when they do ask something, it's met with a cryptic non-answer and the character just accepts it and asks no follow up.

So why didn't Jack try to get some answers from Richard? Richard was desperate to have Jack help him die. Jack could have said he'd help but only after Richard told him everything he knew. After all, Richard seems to like Jack and besides if he's going to die so why wouldn't he tell Jack what he knows about the island, Widmore, Jacob, Smokey, Dharma, etc.?

After Richard told him everything, then Jack could have gave his little speech and lit the dynamite.

But no, this is Lost. The characters actions and motivations are a joke. Situations are so unbelievably contrived. The characters have to be written as idiots because Lindelof and Cuse need to crow bar them into and out of situations to create "mystery".
Also agree with this one, as well as many others on this thread.

Compare the first six episodes of this season to the first six of S1. Does anyone in his or her right mind actually believe this piece of garbage would still be on the air, if the first six episodes of this season were the first six of S1? With all of the inane sideways flashes scenes, Smokey killing countless idiots no one cares about, the lack of a real main character (one that actually, you know, stands out- even though we all know it is supposed to be Jack), this thing would have easily been cancelled by now. For the final season, this is just truly pathetic writing. It is still, however, the best comedy on TV.

I agree. Many of these shortcomings were much more forgivable back then, because as far as we knew, there was all the time in the world to resolve them. Now we have no time and it's more of the same. What's worse for me is knowing that Darlton themselves set their own end date, and yet continued to throw in all these tangential plot lines during seasons 3 - 5 that they never intended to resolve, or at the very least, knew they wouldn't have time to resolve, given the storyline they WANTED to tell.

It doesn't help that the only character that ever seemed interested in the mysteries, Locke, was killed off last season and they now take a stance of if the characters don't care, we don't care.

Convenient. The current characters have never cared about the mysteries.

Compare the first six episodes of this season to the first six of S1. Does anyone in his or her right mind actually believe this piece of garbage would still be on the air, if the first six episodes of this season were the first six of S1?

In all fairness, the first season of any show is used for character development. The second season usually introduces a specific challenge or a nemesis. After that a show will usually introduce other characters and perhaps new challenges. Of course, this is the usual manner in which shows unfold.

I believe the Lost has followed the usual story structure unfolding process and I don't see anything wrong with it, per se.

That being said, my big grip about the show has been the dragging on of clues and information that would usually move a story forward. On top of that is the unnatural responses the characters are having towards events and their unwillingness to press for answers.

I believe the frustration many fans have is with so little time to finish the story of the Losties, that the show is dragging on and it is not as action-packed and adventure filled as expected or as promoted in the previews and spoilers. Plus, we are being introduced to new characters this late in the series. (I personally don't mind, but other fans object to this and that's fine.)

This last episode, Dr. Linus, moved the story forward only as far as placing the characters in two separate camps or sides. With the re-introduction of Widmore, there could be three camps each with their own agenda. That's all the episode did for us.

Personally, I didn't feel this part of the story going much further than that and I thought the 44-odd minutes telling this part of the story could have been used more wisely. In other words, at this late stage in the story, I would like to see more answers and a faster pace to the show's conclusion.

Lost seems to have lost its way. Plot is silly and contrived. Personalities are fragmented. My favourite character, Ben, is a pathetic shell of his former self. I would expect the final season to be tight, polished, and even profound -- which is the way Lost started out. Instead, it's just floundering. I expect that ultimately they will leave us with more mysteries unresolved than questions answered.

Lost seems to have lost its way. Plot is silly and contrived. Personalities are fragmented. My favourite character, Ben, is a pathetic shell of his former self. I would expect the final season to be tight, polished, and even profound -- which is the way Lost started out. Instead, it's just floundering. I expect that ultimately they will leave us with more mysteries unresolved than questions answered.

As in previous season premieres and early season episodes we are seeing multiple storylines that will eventually come together to a season climax. That is what is happening again right now. I only wish the stories moved more quickly and the writing was more edgy.

I agree with you Haggis, that this last season should be as promised more tight, polished and certainly more profound in its unfolding. I fear that at the end we will be left hanging with more mysteries than answers.

This last episode was promised to answer more questions, but it didn't. I have a feeling that the writing for the rest of the season is not going to improve and that we will be seeing more of the same.

***Mod edited - off topic***

colin72 - I'm in steadfast agreement with pretty much all of your criticisms. Just out of personal curiosity though, was there ever a point in time that you felt the show wasn't perpetrating these things, where you really enjoyed it? I only ask because I could definitely see many of these points applying to previous seasons (although not to the degree they do now).

The problem now is the writing, it just isn't as good as it was. Think about Ethan Rom. He had information, he was tremendously creepy, and the reason that he couldn't share answers was because he got shot when he was found out, and he got shot because he had tried to kill Charlie, so whatever frustration we as the audience felt was offset by the logic of Charlie's character. We understood he wanted vengeance, and we sympathized with wanting to shoot the guy. We wanted answers, but Charlie wanted to protect Claire. That's a situation an audience can live with, especially if the work has been done to make us like the characters of Charlie and Claire.

Stuff like that doesn't happen anymore. Take last week's Sayid and Dogen episode. Dogen sends out Sayid to what he thinks is an inevitable doom, Sayid comes back perfectly alive, and Dogen decides to sit down and have a heart-to-heart with him, completely letting his guard down and leading to his own demise. That doesn't make sense. That is 100% frustration, and it's purely because of the writing. They could have set up a similar situation that could have ended in the same result; Sayid killing Dogen, but they wrote it so poorly and so nonsensically that it just feels insulting.

I thought Season 5 was a train wreck. And it wasn't because I disagreed with the plot points, I'm fine with the pre-destination paradox and time travel and the Losties causing the incident, what bothered me was the terrible writing and absurd character reactions along the way. Sawyer and the gang were only found out by the DI because Miles couldn't be bothered to grab a hugely incriminating videotape that he was just instructed to destroy. The Incident, something that has been theorized for years by the audience, wasn't an experiment in progress, it was the idiotic demands of Radzynski, who against all logic, decided that during a time of high alert on the island, he had to dangerously and recklessly continue drilling despite all indications that something was going wrong. How did Daniel Faraday get killed? Because totally against his character, he forced a crisis by storming into the Others camp and waving a gun around.

And so far, Season 6 is picking up right where last season left off.

colin72 - I'm in steadfast agreement with pretty much all of your criticisms. Just out of personal curiosity though, was there ever a point in time that you felt the show wasn't perpetrating these things, where you really enjoyed it? I only ask because I could definitely see many of these points applying to previous seasons (although not to the degree they do now).


Hi beema

I do think most of what fans are criticizing now have always been a part of Lost. Maybe it was easier to overlook some things early in the series because fans gave TPTB the benefit of the doubt. As I've mentioned before, when fans criticized the characters for not communicating and not exploring the island early on, the typical reaction was that it would be explained. Many fans said it was probably "the sickness". Also, and tell me if this sounds familiar, people said that those criticizing Lost were "impatient" and expected all the answers "now".

So here we are in the last season with just over 8 hours of story left. Countless plot lines and criticisms have been swept under the rug. Things are being dragged out and much of what we're seeing just isn't entertaining or engaging. The big problem is the way they're dragging things out... making the characters uninquisitive morons, character's constant cryptic non-answers, cheesey cliched plot lines, Lifetime movie of the week Flash Sideways, boring and repetitive Flash Sideways, contrived lack of communication, and contrived situations.

***Mod edited - off topic***
100%
OK. I'll make sure this is on topic.

As I said above, many of my criticisms of this episode are criticisms that I've had in the past (compare with the season 2 finale (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=1014213#post1014213)). For example:

Lifetime movie of the week/afterschool special plot lines

Characters not asking questions and not sharing info

Characters defying common sense because they have to be idiots so all plot lines can remain secret

Characters crow-barred into contrived scenarios

One piece of enjoyment I got out of this episode, though, was when Hurley asked Jack why they were following Richard and he said: "He's not stalling". I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. I can't decide if the writers are being ironic (wink to the fans fed up with waiting), sarcastic (angry at the fans fed up waiting) or clueless to their own dialogue.

I know exactly what Jack meant by the stalling thing (and yes, i know it has nothing to do with answers), but to me especially since Richard just got through answering a question with something along the lines of "Now is not the time" then in the next breath for Jack to say he's not stalling just seemed pointedly funny.

I can't believe this is the same show that for the first 5 seasons I defended it by saying there wasn't a single bad or boring episode. This all changed in Season 6. It's just downright terrible. As if there weren't dozens of unfinished plots, do they really have to give us this filler crap (flash sideways) that clearly nobody seems to enjoy?

I know at one point in the future they are going to show us why the flash-sideways are so important (something to do with fate, I'm sure), but do they have to bore us to death for exactly half of this season? As everyone else has mentioned, the dialogues are getting ridiculous. If this was Season 1, I wouldn't mind the I'M-SO-DESPERATE-TO-APPEAR-MISTERIOUS dialogue, but at this point it's just so painfully obvious that they simply have no interest in explaining in detail any of the "supernatural" aspects of the show. And now we know the reason: The answers would be mostly stupid crap like "Oh, I can live forever and not age because Jacob touched me". Seriously?

Again, I wouldn't mind it if we didn't get any satisfying answers as long as the show was still fun (hell, I never complained about the lack of answers before), but at this point I've completely lost faith in the producers. Season 6 is a complete and utter failure.

"There are only 6 candidates left."
Oh, groaoaoaoaoaoaoaoaoan - that was bad enough when it was the Oceanic Six.



Having guessed both the time travel and alternate universe rubbish (I know, not a proud boast), here is my guess for the end of LOST.

Jacob is Willy Wonka.

“We feel the show needs more questions than answers. It’s not up to us to tell the audience what’s happening and why. Our job as writers is to present new characters, new questions and new mysteries without resolving them.”
“In the old days, writers of books, plays, operas, movies and TV dramas were stuck with restrictive artistic rules that bound them to telling stories in a coherent way that would engage their audience in the story and the artist would explore the subject with their audience, creating mysteries and then reveal the answers to those mysteries in a coherent and satisfying way”
“We feel that our style, our new style of story telling is far better. We cram in random, incomplete and inane plot points by the barrel full and then the audience can pick out the ones they like and they can relish them in their mind as they go about their sad, bland little lives.”
“Our way of story telling is the new way. Poe and Serling were talentless losers. We’re the future.”
Boom!!!!!

"There are only 6 candidates left."
Oh, groaoaoaoaoaoaoaoaoan - that was bad enough when it was the Oceanic Six.



Having guessed both the time travel and alternate universe rubbish (I know, not a proud boast), here is my guess for the end of LOST.

Jacob is Willy Wonka.

YES, I have seen the comparison elsewhere - this is a LOT like Willy Wonka. You bring in 6 candidates, you subject them to bizarro adventures to test them, highlight their flaws, see if they can overcome them - if they do, they get the island/candy factory for their very own.

Sad.

Expect Meredith Baxter-Birney to pop up soon as Richard's abused housewife....

...So instead of just killing Ben, Llana pulls a cartoon Bond villain move delaying Ben's death so he can escape...

... *insert cryptic Lost character reply here*...




I got a great laugh out of your comments! You crystalized what was somewhat more vague in my own mind...Thanks.
100%
"There are only 6 candidates left."
...
Jacob is Willy Wonka.


Brilliant! I never thought of this, but this is an exquisite parallel! Now, which Willy Wonka, Gene Wilder or Johnny Depp?

I vote for the Depp Wonka, because he is downright creepier.

The Incident, something that has been theorized for years by the audience, wasn't an experiment in progress

Yeah this bothered me a lot. I actually address it in my "mysteries" document, so I'll just quote my reaction to it from there:
This is also perplexing because the Swan Orientation Video refers to the Incident as if it happened after the Swan had already been completed and experiments were already being conducted within it. In addition, the cemented-off area in the Swan is through a doorway, as if the area that the Incident occurred in was already built into the structure of the Swan. However, the Incident we are shown occurs when the Swan is still under construction, and there are no visible experimental facilities at the location.


How did Daniel Faraday get killed? Because totally against his character, [I]he forced a crisis by storming into the Others camp and waving a gun around.

Oh believe me, I totally called this out as BS last season, especially because I loved Faraday's character. I mean come on, you couldn't write a character off a show in a way that made sense in the context of the character? Dan would never run into hostile territory waving a gun willy-nilly and yelling like a maniac. Completely out of character.

[QUOTE]Yeah this bothered me a lot. I actually address it in my "mysteries" document, so I'll just quote my reaction to it from there:
[INDENT]This is also perplexing because the Swan Orientation Video refers to the Incident as if it happened after the Swan had already been completed and experiments were already being conducted within it. In addition, the cemented-off area in the Swan is through a doorway, as if the area that the Incident occurred in was already built into the structure of the Swan. However, the Incident we are shown occurs when the Swan is still under construction, and there are no visible experimental facilities at the location.[QUOTE]

That's a swell list, and one would HOPE that something a lot like it exists in the writer's room.. but I doubt it.

You are not alone in feeling that the show has "changed" for the worse.

I recently read another article in TV Guide where the writers answered some questions. They stated they felt they have answered most of the questions. Which was dismaying to me. One of the things they mentioned having felt answered was the fertility issue. Take that as you will. I can't find an online version of the article, but maybe it's on here somewhere, but there are some minor spoilers in it.

You are not alone in feeling that the show has "changed" for the worse.

I recently read another article in TV Guide where the writers answered some questions. They stated they felt they have answered most of the questions. Which was dismaying to me. One of the things they mentioned having felt answered was the fertility issue. Take that as you will. I can't find an online version of the article, but maybe it's on here somewhere, but there are some minor spoilers in it.

Did they happen to mention how they thought this was resolved? I've seen every episode and I have no idea what resolution they are talking about. Then again, per this board, I must be one of those intellectually impared and impatient viewers who needs every answer handed to me on a silver platter. :rolleyes:

Did they happen to mention how they thought this was resolved? I've seen every episode and I have no idea what resolution they are talking about. Then again, per this board, I must be one of those intellectually impared and impatient viewers who needs every answer handed to me on a silver platter. :rolleyes:

They did and it only sort of made sense. I think maybe one could have formed it as a theory, but with no confirmation, even though they say they aren't getting into it further.

Do you listen to podcasts. Donald from Donald is Lost goes into the article on the Donald and Alex are Lost podcast. Definitely will bring you upto speed and they avoid the spoilers in the article http://www.donaldislost.com/archives/1538

They did and it only sort of made sense. I think maybe one could have formed it as a theory, but with no confirmation, even though they say they aren't getting into it further.

Do you listen to podcasts. Donald from Donald is Lost goes into the article on the Donald and Alex are Lost podcast. Definitely will bring you upto speed and they avoid the spoilers in the article http://www.donaldislost.com/archives/1538

I feel nothing but embarrasment when watching this show. Can't believe i'm still watching to be honest. If it wasn't the last season i'd chuck out the DVDs and stop watching but i can't. No matter how the flash-sideways are somehow made "relevant" it still doesn't make them interesting to go back and rewatch. The DVDs will be going on Ebay.

I've also seen some articles where they've mentioned plotlines that i presumed were still ongoing and they've laughed off and said there was no story there to begin with or said "We feel the show is constantly evolving, we've told as much as we want to on that subject and now we're moving on [to other, nonsensical, random crap]"
The podcasts also make Darlton seem like more self-important, self-appreciating dicks.

I've just read some posts calling this ep "one of the best of the entire series". Did they watch the same episode as me? A story about a pervert headteacher getting blackmailed in the final season. And we're supposed to like this. Added to more bad CGI submarines. That's basically the story of Lost; many characters arrive on island in different times using different methods (sub, boat, plane, balloon, time travel etc), want to go home, want to go back, want to go home etc.

The Loop is a very fitting term for this tripe no wonder Smokey's had enough.

Note in my own journal: Anything with the credit Damon Lindelof, Carlton Cuse or JJ Abrams attached to it, steer clear at all costs.

Note in my own journal: Anything with the credit Damon Lindelof, Carlton Cuse or JJ Abrams attached to it, steer clear at all costs.

Even though I am not a fan of the way these guys write, (Joss Whedon still writes the best dialog) you have to admit they know how to stretch a story out and keep people watching.

Me? From knowing who is writing and who is directing, I can already tell what to expect to come out of the character's mouths and the pace of the show.

The writing for this episode didn't really hit the spot, although I thought the directing was pretty good. Good pace, really good editing, good camera movement. The dialog ... fell flat.

P. S. 08marsh, I really like your avatar.

Even though I am not a fan of the way these guys write, (Joss Whedon still writes the best dialog) you have to admit they know how to stretch a story out and keep people watching.

Me? From knowing who is writing and who is directing, I can already tell what to expect to come out of the character's mouths and the pace of the show.

The writing for this episode didn't really hit the spot, although I thought the directing was pretty good. Good pace, really good editing, good camera movement. The dialog ... fell flat.

P. S. 08marsh, I really like your avatar.

Yes, i will agree that technically Lost is still a fantastically well made show. The writing has just just gone way off. Most of my problems aren't with the overall arc or plan over a season. It's with the smaller scenes and actual dialogue given to characters that flips between forced, contrived and cheesy.
And also the acting; apart from Emilie (sometimes, she's pretty good this year) and dodgy guest stars i guess the actors are top notch.

Ps. Thank you. I made it myself, lol.

[
There is something about someone saying, "I thought this episode was mostly boring. I gave it an 8."[/quote]

You hit the Jacob right on the head there!!! I can't give this episode anything above a three and thats being overly liberal. As for this season so far, there is no way I would give it over a two at best. In my opinion this is not even close to being the same show I started watching over five seasons ago. Furthermore if I would of had any prior knowledge of this show even remotely turning out like it has, I definately would be watching NCIS at this point in time. For over two seasons now I feel like they have just stuck there middle finger up at us and said "it doesn't matter what we do because your going to watch it anyway" and there is something about this that is just plain wrong. There was a time when the episode would just be getting over and I would look at my wife and say "that was the fastest hour of my whole life" and would actually jones for the next episode. I would talk about the show all the time, even one time my wife made the remark "your gonna turn into LOST" and I just laughed. If she were to say that to me now I would probably punch her. As for the saying "thats just LOST" when a question is asked and the response is "it dosen't matter" or "there is no time" or the spectacular "never ask me that again" well let me tell you what, that got old a long time ago. It is just a big cop out!!! I don't give a rats you know what if they answer any questions at all. I just want to watch the show that had intrigue and suspence, kept you on the edge of your seat wanting more. It sure isn't anything even remotely similar to that now. At one time I thought that the production crew and writers actually did research to make plot angles. The actors seemed to like there parts and actually acted. Now it appears to be forced and shallow, Everybodys pockets are full of money, we are close to the end, and nobody cares anymore if it even makes sense or not. Just get it out, so we can have it over with, and move on with our lives, I think is the attitude now, and has been for some time. Anybody who can honestly, and I mean honestly, say that they knew where the show was headed from way back in season one is only fooling themselves!!! This is not the same show I started watching five and a half seasons ago. It may have the same name, and a few of the same actors that, that other show did, but it is a completely different show all together. I personally don't see it as a progression, but more as a lack of interest and down right laziness on the part of the production staff of this show. We wound up here because of convoluted storylines that led to confusion and frustration, that ended up as a total lack of enthusiasm, conviction, and even concern as to what or where the story was going. We know, or at least they told us that they had an ending of sorts, so now they have to try and put this mess that they have on there hands, into some sort of a position that can Intersect and intertwine with the preplanned ending. I think that we are just a few episodes away from reaching that stage. The problem is that all this filler inbetween has been nothing but boring,sluggish and extremely dismal to put it mildly, to watch. Painfully I have watched the actors completely reduce their characters to emotionless, idiotic retards that I can't even stand anymore. Hopefully they were not leading us on when they said that they had an ending of sorts clear back when the show was still LOST, and in the final episodes they can pull there heads, out of there you know where's, so they don't have to look out there belly buttons anymore, and show themselves worthy of the great television show we once knew as LOST!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that the show seems to have disappeared up its own backside and is too self involved.
Every scene or line of dialogue is a vague reference to someone or something we "aren't supposed to know yet". It's not exciting. It's tedious.
The money and fame really has gone to their heads. When the show started to decline for me (late s4, early s5) i always thought it would still have the acting going for it even if the writing was lame.
But now even Michael Emerson isn't keeping me interested and Naveen Andrews needs to decide which accent Sayid has and stick with it, he goes from cockney to Iraqi to posh to American, it's embarrasing. Never thought i'd say it but Emilie de -moi baby- Ravin seems to be putting a lot more effot into her performance than the previous two guys.

Also, note to writers and directors, the strong wind and mechanical noises followed by Flocke's limp out from a bush or onto the beach is getting really old. Boring.

I agree that the show seems to have disappeared up its own backside and is too self involved.
Every scene or line of dialogue is a vague reference to someone or something we "aren't supposed to know yet". It's not exciting. It's tedious.

I agree.

The first three seasons were enjoyable and exciting.

In fact, the season three finale was one of the last episodes that was truly exciting to watch. After that the story seemed like it was being stretched a bit too far over too many episodes.

This season and especially this episode seems to drag on. I'm not feeling that we are going to have a even season. I'm sensing that the good stuff is going to come towards the end.

Filler? Not really. Just poor storytelling, poor plot lines and over the top music.

Brilliant! I never thought of this, but this is an exquisite parallel! Now, which Willy Wonka, Gene Wilder or Johnny Depp?
I vote for the Depp Wonka, because he is downright creepier.

I didn't think of it either. Don't know where I first heard it.

But once the time-travel storyline came up (let's say starting with Desmond) it seemed like the show was heading for alternate realities, multiple universes. Problem with that is, it can explain away ANYTHING. Maybe even the Big Shock Ending will involve a pissed-off giraffe.

Anyway, here we are, final season... alternate realities!
I for one am very disappointed.

I don't like the endless plot twists and cliffhangers, the lame writing ("How long do you think it would take to train an army?"). I can live with that (it's TV). Same with characters that don't reveal anything, IF there's a good reason for it, e.g. time police, the mafia?

But the characters talk like they're trying to conceal things from an imaginary audience. When you watch the actors being interviewed about the show and trying to avoid spoilers, they talk the same way their characters talk IN the show!

It seems like extremely weak storytelling. Said it numerous times before, it's like somebody tried to make "Jaws" with a surprise ending that it's about a shark.

"Extremely weak storytelling." Yup, that sounds like Lost.

One piece of enjoyment I got out of this episode, though, was when Hurley asked Jack why they were following Richard and he said: "He's not stalling". I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. I can't decide if the writers are being ironic (wink to the fans fed up with waiting), sarcastic (angry at the fans fed up waiting) or clueless to their own dialogue.

...but to me especially since Richard just got through answering a question with something along the lines of "Now is not the time" then in the next breath for Jack to say he's not stalling just seemed pointedly funny.

Yeah I thought this was absurdly funny as well. I can't decide what exactly it was a nod to. It would be nice if it was a self-deprecating nod to the fact that the writers are indeed stalling, but somehow I doubt it. They are so pompous and I get the feeling that they don't think they can do any wrong.

What's worse than Lost season 6? The fact you can't have an opinion on it without getting you posts deleted. Pathetic.

Okay, that's what I thought happened! I wasn't sure if it was some glitch or what, but the posts are gone! I never received notification that my posts were to be deleted. Whatever.

This had nothing to do with not allowing posters to have an opinion! There's nothing wrong with that as long as you follow the site rules and the rules for this particular thread - which you didn't!

Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

Really, you're shocked we posted "hey, where are our posts"? Without notification by the mods of why our posts were deleted how would we have known this? I never received any notification as to why my posts were deleted. I thought they had disappeared into the ethernet of space.

In this thread I wrote about how crappy I thought the writing was. That would fall into the didn't love it catagory, or am I mistaken. Perhaps we started talking about how the writing was terrible in not just this episode, but in many episodes.

This is not the only thread where my posts have been deleted. The other post was deleted when I tried to stick up for my own opinion that someone had quoted. It seems to me like the only opinion that is allowed is "I love Lost..etc."
I have read in other threads the most insulting responses to people who do not agree that this is the best show ever. Where are the mods then? Why are people allowed to berate my opinion, but when I stand up for myself, my post is deleted? It really makes me feel unwelcome here.


I'm not a troll. I'm a grown married professional woman who is merely expressing an opinion and if your site condones other posters to attack me, then this is not the place for me and all these years I have been mistaken to think that I belonged.

I'm not really sure why you have so many exclaimation points, you realize that means you are yelling at me.