View Full Version : Dogen
WhatKateDid 02-03-2010, 09:22 PM According to LostPedia, this is the Temple-Other's leader/samurai dude's name. He is Japanese, which throws a kink in things. I am dying to get a translation of what he said... Particularly when Lenon, his translator, says that the water is murky. Dogen says something in Japanese, with a knowing look. If I were to guess, it would be like, "This cannot be good" or something... but you never know, he could be saying something really important, a major clue...
Anyway, if you find a transcript, link it here! If you know Japanese, let us know!
Princess Arwen 02-04-2010, 01:24 AM I love Dogen. He is very masterful and commanding as a leader though I did not like the fact that his first instinct was to kill Hurley, Kate, Jack etc. His disdain with speaking English is in keeping with trying to keep himself centered on a spiritual path and separated from all technology which appears to be the life style in the Temple.
The actor who plays him, Hiroyuki Sanada, is excellent and I believe he was perfectly cast. I hope we see more of him. He is a natural leader and plays the part well. I can imagine living in a temple with him as the leader. :)
Lostpedia says Dogen "..was the name of a prominent Japanese Buddhist philosopher, who founded the Soto Zen tradition. He was, for much of his life, the head of a monastery, Eihei-ji (which roughly translates to 'the temple of eternal peace').,,,The historical Dōgen died on September 22, 1253, the same calendar date as the original Oceanic Flight 815 crash."
beema 02-05-2010, 02:15 AM I think, as we've seen him so far anyways, this character is a pretty crappy addition to the show. His one bit of English dialouge was about the cheesiest thing I've ever heard uttered on Lost.
His character overall seems pretty flat, and seems to be an amalgam of bad stereotypes from mindless action flicks or kung fu movies.
His shiny new leather vest and perfectly styled hair also don't help me buy into the idea that this is a mysterious secluded group of people.
MichaelMyers87 02-05-2010, 05:57 AM Not sure what, but something stood out about him. I hope there's more of him to come in season six and that he don't just end up being monster food.
100%
And ya somebody needs to post some translations to what he said throughout the ep, pronto.
EricGunn 02-05-2010, 08:32 PM Translations from LostPedia.
DOGEN: [Speaks Japanese.] dare da omaetachi (誰だ 御前達―Who are you?)
LENNON: [Translating.] Who are you?
DOGEN: [Japanese] karera wa koko e kurubekidewa nakatta(彼らはここへ来るべきではなかった―They should not have come here.) kono basyo wo mirukoto wa yurusaren(この場所を見ることは許されん―Seeing this place is unforgivable.) ute!(撃て!―Shoot them!)
LENNON: You sure?
[DOGEN walks away.]
LENNON: [shrugs, addresses an other] Shoot 'em.
DOGEN: [Japanese]ima nanto itta!?(今何と言った!?-What did you just say?)
LENNON: What, What'd you just say?
DOGEN: [Japanese]Jacob ni atta?(ジェイコブに会った?―Have you encountered jacob?) syoumei shiro!(証明しろ!―Prove it!)
LENNON: He wants you to prove it
DOGEN: [Japanese]uso wo tsuiteiru!(嘘をついている!―He must tell a lie!) ute!(撃て!―Shoot them!) [An Other cocks his rifle.]
HURLEY: He gave me that guitar case!
DOGEN: [Japanese]kono naka wo mitanoka?(この中を見たのか?-Did you look inside?)
LENNON: Did you look inside it?
[DOGEN extracts a piece of paper within the Ankh and reads it. He speaks again.]karera no na wo ****(彼らの名前を聞け―Ask their names.)
LENNON: What are your names?
About Sayid
DOGEN: [Japanese]socrape kare wa?(そして彼は?―And he?)
LENNON: What about him?
DOGEN: (Folds up the paper.) [Japanese]yoshi ikou! (よし行こう!―All right! Let's go!) keganin no Jarrah wo hakobe.izumi ni tsureteiku(けが人のジャラーを運べ。泉に連れて行く―Bring the injured Jarrah. We're going to the spring.)
LENNON: Pick him up - get him to the spring.
LENNON: The water isn't clear - what happened?
DOGEN: [Japanese]nani ga okottanoka wakaran(何が起こったのか分からん-I don't know what happened) [he goes to spring, cuts his palm with a knife]
About Sayid's wound
DOGEN: [speaks Japanese while pointing at Sayid]kore ha dareni yarareta noda(これは誰にやられたのだ?-Who was this done by?)
LENNON: [pointing at Sayid] Who did this to him?
DOGEN: [Japanese]dekiru kagiri no koto wa suruga, soreniha kiken ga tomonau(出来る限りのことはするが、それには危険が伴う-I'll try as much as I can, but it'll come with risks.)
LENNON: If we do this there are risks ... you understand?
DOGEN: [Japanese]kono otoko wo izumi no nakae(この男を泉の中へ-Put this man into the spring.)
LENNON: [addressing others] Take off the coveralls, put him in.
To Hurley about Sayid
DOGEN: [Japanese]kare wa shinda(彼は死んだ-He died.)
LENNON: You're friend is dead.
DOGEN: [Japanese]kare wa sudeni teokure datta(彼は既に手遅れだった-It was too late for him.)
LENNON: He was beyond saving.
DOGEN: [Japanese]de, Jacob wa itsu kurunda(で、ジェイコブはいつ来るんだ-So, when is Jacob coming?)
LENNON: When's Jacob getting here?
While securing the temple's perimeter
DOGEN: [yells in Japanese to the others] (Everybody, to posts!)
LENNON: Everyone to your posts! On the walls, prepare the ash!
[an other loads a large flare, another other starts pouring ash around the temple]
DOGEN: [Japanese]higashi no kabe ni shubi wo katamero! (東の壁に守備を固めろ!-Defense to the east wall!)
DOGEN: [Japanese]juu nin ha kita ni maware(10人は北に回れ!-Ten men to north side!)
LENNON: Ten men on the north side!
DOGEN: [Japanese]juubun chui shiro!(十分注意しろ!-Very careful!)
LENNON: Send the warning!
DOGEN: [Japanese]mina ni konokoto wo tsutaerunda, yoshi tenka! (皆にこのことを伝えるんだ、よし点火!-??? Okay, light it!)
LENNON: Light it!
Lennon pretty much translated everything Dogan said. He just added what needed to be said, never embellishing or diminishing what he heard. All in all, the others at the temple sure look like they come from all time periods.
Princess Arwen 02-06-2010, 11:06 AM Thank you for the translation Eric. A lot of people have been asking for it. The translation of each word puts everything in context and adds more understanding to the scenes and the characters. It looks like it took you quite a while to get this done and I, for one, appreciate your effort.
100%
From Lostpedia:
"When Jack, Kate Hurley and Jim and the injured Sayid arrive at the Temple,[Dogen] orders them to be shot for trespassing. But when Hurley announces that Jacob sent them, with the ankh in the guitar case, he reconsiders and brings Sayid to the spring within the Temple. Sayid is pronounced dead by Dogen after The Others are apparently unable to revive him.
In a separate room within the Temple, Dogen receives news from Hurley that Jacob has died, and orders The Others to get into position and protect the Temple from "him"[,] who is likely to be The Man in Black......The producers say [Dogen] holds an important key (as in secret) in the series'.."
WhatKateDid 02-06-2010, 10:38 PM Wow, That was disappointing. Sometimes the producers hide things in there for us, and I was really hoping there was something in the Japanese. Particularly with the "the water isn't clear. What happened?" But all Dogen says is "I dunno." I really do hope his character is going somewhere this season... It would be unfortunate to add another Nikki or Paolo to the very small list of flops this show had.
piscescat 02-07-2010, 09:12 AM It'll be interesting to see how he fits into everything.
LordXwee 02-10-2010, 12:12 PM I'm liking Dogen. Which could be bad news, since all my favorite characters seem to die. (Boone, Mikhail, Dan, Locke...)
hatchboy 02-10-2010, 12:53 PM I hope we never have to hear another word about the stupid Valenzetti equation. Dogen, with his comment "I was brought here... you know exactly what I mean", makes the island seem so much older.
The numbers seemed to be such an important part of bringing people to the island via the Dharma radio tower, but I hope we will likely see the numbers bear greater significance in other, more ancient contexts, long before this fictitious Valenzetti guy was dreamed up by Gary Troup. I have not read the book, but if anybody has read The Valenzetti Equation book and it refers to the numbers based on ancient clues, then I will admit I am off-base. If they really were more than just numbers on the hatch and in the radio tower, lets get to know them in their primitive, pre-Dharma, pre-Valenzetti contexts.
How did the numbers bring Dogen to the island, if not a radio transmission or a hatch computer mishap?
At least he cleared up the question of whether there ever were "original inhabitants. I thought he said they were all "brought" there.
Michaud 02-14-2010, 05:08 PM Another fantastic actor brought into the Lost fold, and another one who'll probably be bumped off before the series ends. I really should review which characters I like, because they usually end up dead.
emmaAmethyst 02-15-2010, 02:33 AM Sorry I'm late to the discussion. Thanks so much for the translations!
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DOGEN: [Japanese] karera wa koko e kurubekidewa nakatta(彼らはここへ来るべきではなかった―They should not have come here.) kono basyo wo mirukoto wa yurusaren(この場所を見ることは許されん―Seeing this place is unforgivable.) ute!(撃て!―Shoot them!)
LENNON: You sure?
[DOGEN walks away.]
LENNON: [shrugs, addresses an other] Shoot 'em.
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That's the one that's most interesting. Nobody is allowed to see inside the Temple walls, unless they're part of the membership. We generally don't kill people, but this is particularly problematic. And clearly the names inside the ankh say that our losties are indeed in the club. That is important!
WhatKateDid 02-16-2010, 02:29 PM Dogen, with his comment "I was brought here... you know exactly what I mean", makes the island seem so much older.
How did the numbers bring Dogen to the island, if not a radio transmission or a hatch computer mishap?
At least he cleared up the question of whether there ever were "original inhabitants. I thought he said they were all "brought" there.
I was under the impression that he was talking about fate rather than the numbers. "Fate" was the first word that popped into my mind when he said that, and then I remember the long line of moments when Locke has talked about fate and destiny.
The second thing that popped into my head when he said that was Jacob. I don't think this is really a spoiler, since it has aired, but it said on the Enhanced version of The Incident that Jacob's touch brings our Losties to the island
Not to say that the numbers aren't also essential... I just always thought of them as secondary to the big picture of Science vs Faith/Fate
Liplocked 02-16-2010, 09:10 PM While we still don't know, anyone want to hazard a guess as to from when Dogan arrived? he may have landed out of time in some regard (It's a Brighton Monster thing)
Nice bonsai - he didn't grow those overnight (I'll bet he has a nicely folded origami swan somewhere too) but if he was sporting a WWII military cut when the Island called him he's had a few years to work on that beard.
It isn't grey though - perhaps he blessed with cheekbones that are holding his face from falling into wrinkles? His distaste for english could be born of that conflict or something to do with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Portsmouth
I got baseball introduced into Japan in 1872 ...I haven't a solid clue to go on do I? :biggrin:
Creek 02-20-2010, 11:02 PM I just rewatched The Beginning of the End (Season 4, Ep 1). After Hurley is separated from the group and looks through the cabin window, we see Christian rocking in the chair. A face then briefly (and frighteningly!) looks out the window at Hurley. That face looks just like Dogen. I really think it's him, but don't have any screencaps. Has anyone else noticed this?
MysteryFan 03-04-2010, 01:21 AM I'm liking Dogen. Which could be bad news, since all my favorite characters seem to die. (Boone, Mikhail, Dan, Locke...)
yeah, I see what you mean!
Michaud 03-04-2010, 04:46 AM Another fantastic actor brought into the Lost fold, and another one who'll probably be bumped off before the series ends. I really should review which characters I like, because they usually end up dead.
Ahhhh, I knew it.
Capmaster 03-09-2010, 05:18 PM I didn't like Dogen much. Anyone who would disparage one of my favorite Losties - Hurley, threatening (in Japanese) to cut off his head and feed it to the boars ...well, he had to go :biggrin:
WhatKateDid 03-10-2010, 11:02 AM I'm not very satisfied with his death. I'm really hoping he comes back in a big way. We've got to have some explanation as to how he was keeping the smoke monster out...
hiccup 03-10-2010, 05:33 PM I love this character, and I am hoping he is revived in the healing waters. Loved how he opened up a big ol' can of whupass on Sayid! Nice bit of casting. Keep him around!
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