I posted this on another thread but want to bring it here for more discussion and so I don't lose it ;)

I know that lots of bad things have happened when it isn't raining, but I do sense a pattern here.


I found it interesting that it was pouring rain when Shannon shot Locke. Just like it was when Charlie shot Ethan. (HOME)

Wasn't there rain when the pilot was munched in Pilot 2?

I don't recall rain during Sceve's death, but we didn't see his crushing. However, it was water related. Ethan "came by water" and wasn't Sceve found kinda in the water? (HOME)

Joanna drowned in the ocean. (HORS)

Shannon was lying dead in the river bed in Boone's hallucination. (HAM)

The Marshal was euthanized. No water there. Thought: he asked to be put to death. (TR)

No rain or water around when Boone died, but he also asked Jack to let him go. (DNH)

Jack and Ethan fought in the rain just before Jack and Kate found Charlie hanging, heart stopped, from a tree. It wasn't raining when they found him, but it may well have been when he was strung up. It was dry when Jack revived him.

What else?

ETA: Sawyer shot Frank Duckett in the rain (OUT).

Was it raining when Locke was pounding on the hatch at the end of DEM?

Was it raining when Locke was pounding on the hatch at the end of DEM?


I don't think so, Creme. Great observations though.

THANK YOU, creme! I started a post last night about this and more or less got shot down. I'm with ya on this. Let's put it this way...If I noticed it...it's GOTTA be more than a coincidence!

I copied this post over to General Theories where it is getting more attention. Sorry, I missed your OP.

Sorry, huskie - if you want to delete this one, go right ahead. I thought it would die a quiet and neglected death here ;)

I never thought of that correlation. Good job Creme ;)

I noticed this too, coincidence...maybe?

Okay. Why are all the agree-ers posting in YOUR post, but the naysayers posted in mine?! >:( ( :P )

Are you including flashbacks??* I very vaguely recall that it was raining when Locke left the hospital to confront his kidney-stealing-father.* (I think the wipers were wiping on the VW windshield Locke was driving.) But don't quote me on that one.* *;D


Witchy <making mental note to go back and re-watch all taped episodes of LOST this weekend>

Interesting...

Although this is not a death or violence to add to the list, I think it might be worth mentioning here.

How many times have we seen Locke smiling in the rain? I have noticed several times that he seems to take great joy in a good rainshower, tipping his face upward, eyes closed, big smile. In one scene he told Boone it would begin to rain in xx seconds - then it did, right on cue. Sure, some people enjoy the rain, but this "rain lovin Locke" theme has been revisited multiple times, making it seem to me like more than a side note.

This thread seems to be suggesting that there is something about the water, (ocean,river, rain) that either accompanies or promotes death and violence. I assume that you are wondering if the island (for lack of an individual or group to blame- since we don't know that much yet) is somehow controling and causing this type of occurrence.

Maybe Locke's love of the rain has something to do with his connection with the island. While it has negative effects on the others, "Locke the Island Minion" finds it to be a positive experience.

I guess the thing required to follow up on this idea is to find out if positive things happen for Locke in the rain and water. What event followed the scene where Locke predicted how many seconds till it rained? Was that the day they found the hatch?

I am not trying to hijack your thread here. I just thought this might add another dimension to your theory. While all these horrible violent events seem to be happening in the rain and water, Locke seems to take pleasure in a good downpour.

I'm starting to get confused about what I've said here and what I said on the thread in General Theories (http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=15910.0).

More or less, though, I'm not proposing a theory - just making observations.

I do believe that the pattern is not accidental.

I do believe that is a pattern and not a law. (How boring would it be if every bad thing happened in the rain)?

Are you including flashbacks??*



Ohh, Good one Witchy. Sawyer killed the wrong guy (forget his name) in the rain!

Ohh, Good one Witchy.* Sawyer killed the wrong guy (forget his name) in the rain!


Well, hells bells.* How could I have forgotten that one??* Sawyer killing Frank Duckett in the rain.* Who started this thread??* creme?* You might be onto something with all this water symbolism........


Witchy

Yeah, flashbacks would count also. I added Duckett to the list.

There was the *drowned* doll in the water that Jack found.

There was that section of people dead (from the plane) in that lake/waterfall that Sawyer and Kate found.

Well, I've been doing some googling on "water symbolism death."* Water is linked with death/rebirth in a religious sense (think baptism).* From http://www.iwha.net/religion.htm:
* *** Water is a living and spiritual matter, working as a mediator between humans and gods. It often represents the border between this world and the Other.
* *** Symbolism of water often implies both death and rebirth. In baptism the initiate dies in water and he is then reborn from it in the kingdom of God.
* *** ...water is the essence of life. But water is also death, and violent waters are attributed with destructive and negative capacities.

Interesting.......particularly when several characters have referred to death/rebirth/new life (i.e. Jack when he said "We all died three days ago" and Locke to Shannon about "We all get new lives here")


And apparently the Death Card in a Tarot deck is associated with water (http://www.tryskelion.com/deathcrd.htm).

* *** Water is the Elemental Ruler of Death for a number of reasons. First, water represents fluidity, the ability to change and adapt to circumstances and situations. Second, Death also symbolizes rebirth, and it is in water that life begins. Third, water has the ability to change form -- it can be liquid, solid, or gaseous. Thus, it is ideal to represent the changing aspects of the Self.



Witchy

I may be all wet on this but what about the plane crash? Wasn't that in the middle of a storm i.e. rain?

Was Charlie shooting Ethan to death in the rain on your list?

Does anyone save a tape of the episode where Michael was hit by a car? Was it raining there?

A lot of us thought Charlie's song..."Along came the rain and drowned the spider out' kind of odd. We don't know if has any significance or not but I thought I'd just throw it in the mix.

A lot of us thought Charlie's song..."Along came the rain and drowned the spider out' kind of odd. We don't know if has any significance or not but I thought I'd just throw it in the mix. In another thread I mentioned that the song and Hurley's correction from "drown" to "flush" the spider out both took place shortly before the scene where they confronted Locke in the rain and did not kill(drown) him but did get him to reveal his actions(flushed him out). But that may be a big stretch as far as in episode foretelling goes.

Those are good connections, but I'm not so sure it was intentional (I wouldn't go so far as to say we're grasping at straws here though, it's certainly possible) in as much as it's directly related to the story or to what happens. It's more of a artistic device used to set the mood. Rain, darkness and lack of saturated tones in an image add the effect that we're about to kill someone.

If you kill someone on a light, sunny day with lots of bright colors you don't quite get the same effect.

That's one of the things that makes lost so great, plenty of nice camera tricks and angles, lighting and composition effects and attention to the little things.

If you kill someone on a light, sunny day with lots of bright colors you don't quite get the same effect.
You get "High Noon" with Gary Cooper ;D

OK I can buy the mood setting concept for rainy days as a possible reason instead of a water = death theory.

Has anyone seen Donnie Darko? I can't remember right off hand what the water exactly symbolized in the movie, but it was basically a connection between universes. Donnie Darko hasn't been mentioned in the series...yet...but several people have compared the numbers written on the hatch to the numbers Donnie found on his arm when waking up after the universes split.

Does anyone remember if any of the powers that be of Lost mentioned anything about Donnie Darko being one of their movies? I mean, Donnie Darko ALSO alluded to Watership Down and time travel. Don't you just love Lost? I've never thought so much and tried to tie so many things in together than I have with this show. It's going to make Americans smarter! And eventually other countries, I guess, when they watch it. But we're first! :lol2:

I may be all wet on this but what about the plane crash? Wasn't that in the middle of a storm i.e. rain?

Was Charlie shooting Ethan to death in the rain on your list?

Does anyone save a tape of the episode where Michael was hit by a car? Was it raining there?




I don't think the plane crashed in the rain. I'm pretty sure it was sunny when the tail ripped off.

It wasn't raining when Michael was hit by a car.

I may be all wet on this but what about the plane crash? Wasn't that in the middle of a storm i.e. rain?



I'm pretty sure that it wasn't raining when the plane crashed.

It seems to me that the writers could be well versed in something called pathetic fallacy. This is when the weather is a foreshadowing of things to come or depicting human emotion, etc. This is a tool that Shakespeare used regularly as well as many other talented writers. It doesn't have to be a pattern, it seems that it is used at times intentionally and then there are times it's not being employed. Good catch though. I've been too busy to write out an elaborate post to mention this. :)

Has anyone seen Donnie Darko?

Yes, one of my favorite movies of all time. So deep and so quietly powerful.

I can't remember right off hand what the water exactly symbolized in the movie, but it was basically a connection between universes.

Yes, you have that right. The water effects also work as a kind of time travel since those water spears serve to *predict* what someone will do. Plus his power over water symbolizes his power over the elements as a kind of savior figure.

Donnie Darko hasn't been mentioned in the series...yet...but several people have compared the numbers written on the hatch to the numbers Donnie found on his arm when waking up after the universes split.

So then ... 4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes and 42 seconds? :)

Does anyone remember if any of the powers that be of Lost mentioned anything about Donnie Darko being one of their movies?

I don't think so. :(

So then ... 4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes and 42 seconds? :)


Well, maybe not THAT much of a correlation. I mean, we know that the numbers have some grand significance to the whole story. Many numbers have been repeated, besides this sequence or portions thereof. Although, I have heard others interpret the numbers just like you do. I think it's a little less obvious than that. I believe those numbers will show up in the last episode as part of the key to the whole kit-and-kaboodle. That's always a little trick of writers is to have something from the beginning of the story end up at the end as a grand revelation tool.

But, not to hijack the thread, I'll get back to the water significance. I mean, they're on an island! Water has a LOT to do with their predicament! I wonder if anyone has thought about that. :) If there wasn't so much water around them, they wouldn't be separated from the rest of the world!

Any comments on that?

good theory!
providing its the spoilers are true- it seems a practical theory
something indeedy will happen when they sail out (onto water) :P

but yeah im usually a lurker but decided this was something worth praising

Rain/water can also signify cleasning. Like cleansing of their sin's.

Rain/water can also signify cleasning.* Like cleansing of their sin's. Ah Ha! No wonder Locke gets such a kick out of staring up into the rain ;D

No rain death for Tom, unless you consider it a shower of bullets. :P

Actually, maybe we should look closer. Maybe the water/rain deaths have to do with malice/murder.