Just a quick little theory before I head off to work.

There are three known non-aging members of the character cast: Jacob, the Man in Black, and Richard.

Richard appears to be a co-captain of the Others along with whomever has been chosen as their current leader. He's been there in the 50s, the 70s, the 90s, and now. It's possible that the Others are "his" people, and that rather than taking a god-like leadership position over them, he simply watches from the sidelines and only intervenes when someone threatens his people.

Jacob appears to be in league with Richard. Previously, we've always sort of assumed that Richard is some sort of subordinate of Jacob. It is possible that Richard and Jacob are actually on an equal playing ground, though. Perhaps they forged some sort of alliance long ago to keep the Man In Black on the island. Two against one. Jacob's people appear to mainly be the Others at the Temple. They are quite different from Richard's people. More eclectic. Richard's people co-mingle with Jacob's people due to their truce. An order from Jacob is just as important to Richard as an order from himself. While Jacob remains secluded at the Statue, Richard is his eyes and ears.

The Man In Black does not appear to have a group that he calls his own. Rather, he steals members from Richard's and Jacob's groups and "infects" them to become pawns. His goal is to find a way to break away from Jacob and Richard. He has now dealt with Jacob, leaving only Richard in his path. So he calls Richard to meet with him inside the Statue. Richard isn't quite so dense as to walk into a death trap, though. When UnLocke returns to the beach, there is very obvious recognition in Richard's eyes as soon as UnLocke reveals who he is. They have met before. And then UnLocke knees Richard out cold and drags him off into the jungle.

Is it a coincidence that Locke's first two targets are Jacob and then Richard? Perhaps not. Maybe one of the big reveals coming up is that it's not a duality, but a trinity. How very fitting for Lost's religious themes.

Hmm, I guess it wasn't a "short" post after all! :rolleyes:

It's been confirmed that the MIB has a Nemesis, but it ISN'T Jacob

Just a quick little theory before I head off to work.

There are three known non-aging members of the character cast: Jacob, the Man in Black, and Richard.

Richard appears to be a co-captain of the Others along with whomever has been chosen as their current leader. He's been there in the 50s, the 70s, the 90s, and now. It's possible that the Others are "his" people, and that rather than taking a god-like leadership position over them, he simply watches from the sidelines and only intervenes when someone threatens his people.

Jacob appears to be in league with Richard. Previously, we've always sort of assumed that Richard is some sort of subordinate of Jacob. It is possible that Richard and Jacob are actually on an equal playing ground, though. Perhaps they forged some sort of alliance long ago to keep the Man In Black on the island. Two against one. Jacob's people appear to mainly be the Others at the Temple. They are quite different from Richard's people. More eclectic. Richard's people co-mingle with Jacob's people due to their truce. An order from Jacob is just as important to Richard as an order from himself. While Jacob remains secluded at the Statue, Richard is his eyes and ears.

The Man In Black does not appear to have a group that he calls his own. Rather, he steals members from Richard's and Jacob's groups and "infects" them to become pawns. His goal is to find a way to break away from Jacob and Richard. He has now dealt with Jacob, leaving only Richard in his path. So he calls Richard to meet with him inside the Statue. Richard isn't quite so dense as to walk into a death trap, though. When UnLocke returns to the beach, there is very obvious recognition in Richard's eyes as soon as UnLocke reveals who he is. They have met before. And then UnLocke knees Richard out cold and drags him off into the jungle.

Is it a coincidence that Locke's first two targets are Jacob and then Richard? Perhaps not. Maybe one of the big reveals coming up is that it's not a duality, but a trinity. How very fitting for Lost's religious themes.

Hmm, I guess it wasn't a "short" post after all! :rolleyes:

If I had to pick three sides I'd say Smokey, Jacob and the Island. I don't really know that the Man in Black wasn't just a costume, so I hesitate to identify him as anyone other than Smokey.

If I had to pick three sides I'd say Smokey, Jacob and the Island. I don't really know that the Man in Black wasn't just a costume, so I hesitate to identify him as anyone other than Smokey.

Fair enough. I just equate MiB to Smokey because that was the first form we've seen him in, chronologically. I guess my lineup would be Smokey, Jacob, Richard then. Smokey represents the failing of humanity (constant). Jacob represents the island and the goodness of humanity (constant). Richard is the balance and protects the people themselves (variable).

There is a another force at work, but I'm not sure it's Alpert:


It's been confirmed that the MIB has a Nemesis, but it ISN'T Jacob


where did you hear that from?? that is very interesting!

There is a another force at work, but I'm not sure it's Alpert:


It's been confirmed that the MIB has a Nemesis, but it ISN'T Jacob


Shouldn't that first line be spoilerfonted too? It sort of says the same thing as the spoiler below it...
100%
As a side note, this trinity is paralleled in the Others' camp with Eloise Hawking (Richard?), Charles Widmore (Jacob?), and Benjamin Linus (Smokey?). They are all competing for the island just like the upper echelons.

You know, this is a good point. For a few seasons now we've seen Richard act calm and collected. Once he found out that Jacob was gone/MIB had taken over he was freaking out. There is much about Richard that we don't know and I feel that his place on the totem pole is higher than we think.

You know, this is a good point. For a few seasons now we've seen Richard act calm and collected. Once he found out that Jacob was gone/MIB had taken over he was freaking out. There is much about Richard that we don't know and I feel that his place on the totem pole is higher than we think.

It's possible Alpert is "The Cobra," the real puppet master in the Lost universe who has been hiding in plain sight. He sure keeps a low profile though, as evidenced by getting beat to a pulp by Flocke. Taking one for the team? As an aside, I find it fascinating that Flocke is still referenced as Locke by not only in show characters and commentary, but by Darlton and such when talking about the show.

It's possible Alpert is "The Cobra," the real puppet master in the Lost universe who has been hiding in plain sight. He sure keeps a low profile though, as evidenced by getting beat to a pulp by Flocke. Taking one for the team? As an aside, I find it fascinating that Flocke is still referenced as Locke by not only in show characters and commentary, but by Darlton and such when talking about the show.

So....you think there's some RAZZLE DAZZLE going on? :D

So....you think there's some RAZZLE DAZZLE going on? :D

Hey, I liked Expose! I thought it was hilarious. I also think important information is contained in the least likely places on occasion....

Hey, I liked Expose! I thought it was hilarious. I also think important information is contained in the least likely places on occasion....

They'd actually said (though it could have been jokingly) that there was key information in that episode. And when it aired, there was a lot of discussion about the cobra being a secret player. And it fits in with the growing idea that there are three grandmasters in this game.

If there is a 3rd force I think it's the Hurleybird..... (I'm serious - this bird might have been a shapeshifted god. Mr. Cobra, hmm.... A snake and a bird....)

Dammit, I couldnt help myself with rabids spoiler lol. Insane I love it.

Dammit, I couldnt help myself with rabids spoiler lol. Insane I love it.

Yeah, that's extremely interesting imo. And will put a whole new spin on an already rapidly rotating tale.

They'd actually said (though it could have been jokingly) that there was key information in that episode. And when it aired, there was a lot of discussion about the cobra being a secret player. And it fits in with the growing idea that there are three grandmasters in this game.

What are the odds they make an Expose spinoff show? Now THAT I would like to see...

It's possible Alpert is "The Cobra," the real puppet master in the Lost universe who has been hiding in plain sight. He sure keeps a low profile though, as evidenced by getting beat to a pulp by Flocke. Taking one for the team? As an aside, I find it fascinating that Flocke is still referenced as Locke by not only in show characters and commentary, but by Darlton and such when talking about the show. I've thought the same about Alpert.

Lostpedia... LOCKE is still used for Smokey-Locke.

I can't help but feeling that we are gonna learn, eventually, that the Sickness itself is something else besides the Smoke Monster. And that it is also sentient and might be this third force that a lot of people are suggesting. As proposed by Dogen, I will call it: The Darkness.

This 'entity' might be the oldest one and be related to the island in a much deeper way than any of the other two. The origin of this thing might be left unsolved, but we could just say that it is an EBE that came on an asteroid that impacted the Earth millions of years ago and took over the island turning it into what it is now: a place where miracles happen.;)


Years later, Jacob came to the Island and become some kind of interface between humans and the Darkness...Perhaps his initial mission was getting people to the island to 'feed' this thing or in exchange for some kind of 'powers' that we know Jacob has, something along those lines
:biggrin:

But what about MiB/Smokie?

Ok, I can't help getting this image off my head:

Jacob taking 'innocent' MiB to some ancient chamber and locking him inside, leaving him alone with the Darkness...which might look just like the Smoke Monster. After that encounter, MiB himself stopped being 'human' and became the latest stage in the evolutionary process of this sickness;/darkness.
Now, this might have happened around the same time the Black Rock came to the island...
And Richard might have become Jacob's ally in his plan to get rid of MiB for some unknown reason...

I also think that all this hypothetical situation might happen right after the conversation that Mib and Jacob had in Season 5's finale and that we all witnessed.

Of course, this is all just pure speculation, like always!

I don't really know that the Man in Black wasn't just a costume, so I hesitate to identify him as anyone other than Smokey.

I hadn't thought of it that way. This unnamed man on the beach could have been the current physical form he was taking. That would explain Jacob's calm acceptance that his old friend was standing there looking like Locke. Jacob must recognize this thing whatever body it's in.


You know, this is a good point. For a few seasons now we've seen Richard act calm and collected. Once he found out that Jacob was gone/MIB had taken over he was freaking out. There is much about Richard that we don't know and I feel that his place on the totem pole is higher than we think.


The discussion about Alpert is fascinating. He's been the one to contact child Ben, deliver lists and messages to adult Ben, intervene with Sawyer to kill Sawyer/Cooper, advise & argue with Locke - definitely the one who is looking after 'his people'. And Locke's/Flocke's comment to him, about making these rules up as he goes along . . . I'm intrigued to find out who Alpert really is.

I hadn't thought of it that way. This unnamed man on the beach could have been the current physical form he was taking. That would explain Jacob's calm acceptance that his old friend was standing there looking like Locke. Jacob must recognize this thing whatever body it's in.

In TV guide, when answering questions pertaining to Locke/Smokey/Man in Black,
TPB said Season 6 is going to explore MiB, his motivations, and how he got to be how he is today How the flash-sideways will have anything to do with this I do not know.

There are a lot of answers to questions about the premiere. Things people are theorizing on and apparently wrongly. Like why the Island's under, for instance.

The discussion about Alpert is fascinating. He's been the one to contact child Ben, deliver lists and messages to adult Ben, intervene with Sawyer to kill Sawyer/Cooper, advise & argue with Locke - definitely the one who is looking after 'his people'. And Locke's/Flocke's comment to him, about making these rules up as he goes along . . . I'm intrigued to find out who Alpert really is.

I feel that Smocke's statement about the rules was pure irony.
Those rules were in place to prevent exactly what Smocke ended up pulling off.

As far as a mythology episode goes: heres a title, episode #, and centric spoiler for you
episode 10 Ab Aeterno- Richard Alpert * Nestor C (The Actor who plays him) said he was astounded at the answers and amount of them in his episode.
The title loosely translated means 'from the beginning of time'
I know some other stuff that I'd rather not, so I won't spoil you there. Not stuff I'm unhappy with per se, just real shockers that would've been nice to see; not hear about. Though with as much as I know, I can't make a lick of sense of it.

I really have no idea but to over think the mystery is pobably just that.....:eek2::hypocrit::lipsseal::eek::ohwell::c oolorng::huh::yes:

Get back to your hole, SNL. It's cute that you've retaliated to the recent bout of trolls plaguing your forum, though.

As an aside, I find it fascinating that Flocke is still referenced as Locke by not only in show characters
The only in show character we've really heard call NotLocke John since his body was discovered was Ben.
"LA X"
BEN: Richard. [Panting]
RICHARD: Ben. What happened in there?
BEN: Everything's fine. John wants to speak to you.
ILANA: Is Jacob all right?
BEN: I'm sorry. Who are you?
RICHARD: Answer her question, Ben.
BEN: Well, of course Jacob's all right. They're both together inside. John just wants to talk to you.
RICHARD: John wants to talk to me?
BEN: That's right.
[Richard grabs Ben and pulls him along the beach.]
BEN: Richard, what are you doing? I don't understand.
RICHARD: Well, I'm happy to talk to John. But before I do, maybe you should talk to him first.
[Richard throws Ben down on the sand next to where the body of John Locke lays half-dumped out of the cargo container.]
The only reason Ben called him John was because he was trying to get Richard to go in the Foot.
[Rifles are cocked and pointed at Locke as people see him and Ben walking toward them]
RICHARD: Don't shoot him! Don't shoot him!
LAPIDUS: I'm seein' it - But I'm still not believin' it.
[Locke walks up to Richard]
LOCKE: Hello Richard. It's good to see you outta those chains.
RICHARD: [eyes widen] ... you?
LOCKE: Me.
[Locke immediately hits Richard in the throat, then knocks him unconscious]
LOCKE: I am very disappointed ... in all of you.
[Locke puts Richard on his shoulder, and walks right past the corpse of Locke in the Ajira cargo box]
Richard knows what/who he is but he's gone. The only one of the group on the beach who knows what/who he is, is Ben and do you really think Ben's going to tell the truth about what happened in the Foot?
I wonder if Ilana has any idea what/who he is or if she's as clueless as everyone else?
Will the Temple Others know?
I wonder what the characters will be calling him now?
He who is NotLocke? The Thing? It? Bad Twin Locke?
So which of the TT Losties is going to be the first to meet up with him?

Get back to your hole, SNL. It's cute that you've retaliated to the recent bout of trolls plaguing your forum, though.
I am only here to cause a little hate and discontent is all.........

IMO, the island is the third and most powerful force. SNL had a good post on another thread and I agreed with some of it.

It's possible Alpert is "The Cobra," the real puppet master in the Lost universe who has been hiding in plain sight. He sure keeps a low profile though, as evidenced by getting beat to a pulp by Flocke. Taking one for the team? As an aside, I find it fascinating that Flocke is still referenced as Locke by not only in show characters and commentary, but by Darlton and such when talking about the show.
For four seasons, D&C denied time travel to the ends of the earth, even going so far as to saying, "consciousness time travel yes, traditional time travel absolutely not, no, never, not ever" once they were called out on Desmond's flashes. Another thing they've repeatedly said is "no character on the show is another character from the future, no, absolutely not, never, not ever."

Hmm...