How 'bout that :)

I just wanted to make a thread to express my complete joy over what we got to see of Locke's life in the parallel universe.

He seems to still have some issues with self-doubt, and frustration, but he doesn't seem to be letting them control his life and ruin his relationship as we saw previously. I think it's clear that in this universe he doesn't have issues with Anthony Cooper, and that of course would make a drastic difference in his life.

The scene towards the end -- where Locke finally stops deluding himself, and accepts that he has limitations, and then Helen lets him know she doesn't care about all that -- was really touching. Brought a tear to my eye.

Just so happy to finally see Locke persevering, finally having some realistic hope and happiness in his life, not hope based on delusions of grandeur brought on by Island "miracles." Real, honest to god hope and happiness.

Now, whenever it seems he can't catch a break, there is always an updside to it.
He looses his luggage, but it leads to him meeting Jack and possibly a new friendship or even healing his disability.
His wheelchair lift breaks and he falls on his lawn getting soaked, but instead of getting angry, he shakes it off, and there's Helen, to love and comfort him.
He gets fired from his job, but runs into Hurley in the parking lot, who offers him a new opportunity.

Everything's coming up Locke for once, and it feels great (for him, and for me as a Locke fan).

I thought it was great to see Helen with Locke again, I didn't expect that. Hope we see more of this alternate universe Locke.

Hear hear!

What I think is more important is that in the off-island timeline we saw previously, Helen had left him and he was using a chat-line girl as a substitute. It also seems that, since Helen mentioned him coming to the wedding, that Locke's relationship with his father is also different in the timeline. Very curious.

indeed. They are so sweet together. Really makes you wonder about Anthony Cooper...

Seeing them together and so happy made me happy. I really liked following the twists and turns of their storyline in this episode.

After the heartbreaking "I don't understand" line in LA X, it was so satisfying to see that in one reality at least Locke has a good life, a wonderful soon-to-be wife, and a relationship with his father.

The only thing that confuses me about this scenario is the suggestion that things may be different between Locke and his father, otherwise why would Helen speak of the father without a tinge of hatred in her voice. You wouldn't normally invite to your wedding someone who pushed you out of a window, right? If that's the case, how did post-LAX Locke end up in the wheelchair? He's still angry about being paralyzed, but how did it happen?

Questions, questions ...

Yes, the whole flash-sideways world is completely, utterly different and paradoxical until they explain it to us...they are definitely drumming it home in case we miss it...but the character stories are great.

It was really great to see those two together again. It made me all warm and fuzzy inside.

We didn't hear Locke's "theme" at all in this episode either. Maybe there will be a new, positive, Locke theme.

I really, really liked Locke and Helen's dynamic together... total kudos when she told him she wanted him, regardless and that she was waiting on him not a miriacle of his walking again... great portrayal of real love that. They kept some of Locke's old doubts and struggles, but he apparently tooks some different forks in the road in the past and present and I think this and other storylines will turn out to be the positive outcome of last season's finale... somehow sending waves through time or realties or something that results in that progress Jacob refered to as we all approach the only time it ends. Having seen the good things that have happened Locke's life (and Kate's going back to help Claire last week, it makes me wonder if Jacob is a good guy or just another bad guy... his touches don't seem to have resulted good influences necessarily)

squid

I was always a little suspicious that Helen was working with Cooper to con Locke. It was nice to see that she just loved Locke for who he was.

When Helen came out of the house my mom and I teared up and screamed "YES!!!! HELEN!!!!!" I just love her so much. She's so amazing, I love her vibe. So warm and nurturing and cool. God, I just love her! And I love Katey Sagal too.

I loved seeing Helen and Locke together, but thought it was bittersweet. Locke is, by far, my favorite LOST character and watching Ilana, Ben, Frank, and Sun bury him last night in the regular timeline was so sad...I didn't want to see Locke go out like that. At all!!!! So, I was glad to see him happy with her in the ALT.

The reason I say bittersweet though, is that it seems that even though some things are different in the ALT timeline, people's fate/destiny/whatever...seems to be the same. Locke is still in a wheelchair, Hurley still owns the box company, Rose still has cancer....makes me think Helen still dies in 2006.

Plus, when Helen mentions his dad...we don't know if Locke was adopted as a child and she's referring to his adoptive dad...and Anthony Cooper could still be a scumbag. Seems like the starting point of the changes for the ALT would probably be 1977.

The reason I say bittersweet though, is that it seems that even though some things are different in the ALT timeline, people's fate/destiny/whatever...seems to be the same. Locke is still in a wheelchair, Hurley still owns the box company, Rose still has cancer....makes me think Helen still dies in 2006.

Could be, just like what Abaddon told Locke, that her path was meant to end there.

I'm not sure it's relevant though, because I have the feeling we will see some sort of convergence between the universes long before that.

I just wanted to make a thread to express my complete joy over what we got to see of Locke's life in the parallel universe.

He seems to still have some issues with self-doubt, and frustration, but he doesn't seem to be letting them control his life and ruin his relationship as we saw previously...... Just so happy to finally see Locke persevering, finally having some realistic hope and happiness in his life, not hope based on delusions of grandeur brought on by Island "miracles.".......The scene towards the end -- where Locke finally stops deluding himself, and accepts that he has limitations, and then Helen lets him know she doesn't care about all that -- was really touching.
I can't argue that it's wonderful to see any character happy as opposed to struggling. It's important that he's more realistic about his condition i.e he can't work in construction or go on a walk-a-about. Still, for me there is something bothersome about a complete surrender to destiny. The balance is off.

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things that I can;
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Locke, Helen, Rose have got the accepting part down, but seem to be lacking the wisdom to know what actually can be changed and the drive to change those things.

There is a big difference between a cancer patient who simply accepts the fact they are going to die and refuses treatment, the patient who holds onto unrealistic hope about the treatment and spends his remaining days scouring the earth for alternate cures, and the one who keeps up treatment with realistic expectations while accepting the fact that they still may never be cured.

Locke met a spine surgeon, not a witch doctor or a scam-artist, who told him nothing is irreversable. Not even hearing the surgeon out goes beyond content acceptance. It is a complete surrender of the will to try.

I posted this in another thread:

What I took away from this episode's portrayal of the ALT universe was the predominance of accepting Destiny, the absense of Faith, and the surrender of Free Will.....A universe heavily weighted by MIB.

Locke has accepted his destiny of life in a wheelchair by ripping up Jack's card and discarding his chance to try to make a difference.

Helen, who suggested that meeting Jack may have been fate, also quickly succumbs to the idea of destiny. She's content staying "as is", has no problem letting go of the faith that Locke can one day be fixed, and is willing to give up her free will which would keep her pushing him to try.

Rose has also surredered to her destiny. No more trips around the world having faith in a cure. Her appearance suggests she may not even be recieving chemotherapy.

Hurley has embraced the numbers and his lottery riches. Maybe things aren't completely a-o.k now that he's a rich man, but he's accepting his destiny, buying up companies and living to prosper.

Is this what the ALT is really about? What if these characters are collectively faced with a bigger situation where they choose to accept a tragic destiny instead of using their free will to try to prevent it???




.

I have a bit of a different take on this scene than many I guess. I did not understand it to be about Locke's acceptance of his condition but of Helen's acceptance of his condition. When Locke is in the tub and Helen is coaxing him to call Jack, Locke is having doubts about whether he is good enough for Helen. He then goes to make the call but hangs up and tells Helen, in essence, accept me as I am cause it ain't gonna change. Helen does. I strongly suspect that we will see Locke make the call eventually. However, he will do it for himself not because he feels inadequate for Helen.

The casting of Katy Segal as Helen was well done, I always liked Helen and Locke and was glad to see them happy in the alt.

I have a bit of a different take on this scene than many I guess. I did not understand it to be about Locke's acceptance of his condition but of Helen's acceptance of his condition.

I completely agree. I thought that was made pretty clear by the whole conversation. Locke was saying that he thought she wanted him to change, and to prove that she didn't, she ripped up the card.

They have great chemistry together!
Love seeing them both happy and Locke coming to terms with his physical limitations.
Since she left him originally cause he was deceptive about seeing his father after he faked his death, it was interesting in this timeline that he was able to be entirely open and trusting with her.
Wonder if Ben will screw things up for them this time, like Cooper did before?

The only thing that confuses me about this scenario is the suggestion that things may be different between Locke and his father, otherwise why would Helen speak of the father without a tinge of hatred in her voice. You wouldn't normally invite to your wedding someone who pushed you out of a window, right? If that's the case, how did post-LAX Locke end up in the wheelchair? He's still angry about being paralyzed, but how did it happen?

Questions, questions ...

Maybe it's in another thread I haven't read yet but this is bugging me too and you're the first I've seen ask the question.

As I recollect, Locke and Helen had been split up a while before Locke got pushed out the window. I guess I'm missing something here.

my first thought when she said that was her parents and his father were dead, and she was referring to urns or something. she said "just grab them and go to vegas" or something.

i am getting a feeling things in the alt timeline are different just for the sake of being different, and the actual reasons wont be explained. like if cooper is "good" in the alt, how could that be caused by the island not being there?

I can't argue that it's wonderful to see...

Good points in your post here. It does seem like they have "given up" on the idea that things can change, but I think there are significant signs that still can and will change.
I have not given up hope on the idea that Jack and Locke will still get together, and that Jack may indeed "fix" him.
Helen was just showing her true love for John, and I think more than anything she was relived that he decided to no longer live in the shadow of his disability.

I also still don't understand the idea people have that Jacob is the bastion of "free will" somehow. He spends his entire life manipulating people into circumstances that lead them down one fated path.
How is that free will at all?

I loved the scenes of Locke and Helen and even laughed along with Locke when he ended up in the yard with the sprinklers going. I don't know what changed for Locke in that his dad's a part of his life as well as having Helen. I'm just glad his life seems to be better than it was. Makes me anxious to see James' story and see if his parents are still conned and, if so, how he is in the ALT.

There's a picture of Locke and Helen in his cubicle, looks like it was taken in Hawaii. It also looks as though Locke is standing. So, Helen met him before he became paralyzed, just as in the original reality. Sadly, Original Helen died. LP has her dated of death as April 8, 2006. Of course, Locke could have been conned by the tombstone. Wouldn't be the first fake death in his life.

I can't argue that it's wonderful to see any character happy as opposed to struggling. It's important that he's more realistic about his condition i.e he can't work in construction or go on a walk-a-about. Still, for me there is something bothersome about a complete surrender to destiny. The balance is off.

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things that I can;
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Locke, Helen, Rose have got the accepting part down, but seem to be lacking the wisdom to know what actually can be changed and the drive to change those things.

There is a big difference between a cancer patient who simply accepts the fact they are going to die and refuses treatment, the patient who holds onto unrealistic hope about the treatment and spends his remaining days scouring the earth for alternate cures, and the one who keeps up treatment with realistic expectations while accepting the fact that they still may never be cured.

Locke met a spine surgeon, not a witch doctor or a scam-artist, who told him nothing is irreversable. Not even hearing the surgeon out goes beyond content acceptance. It is a complete surrender of the will to try.
.

I really liked your whole post, and I definitely agree that there is a delicate balance to be maintained. This theme is actually something I've come across many times when watching the show. Is "letting go" a good thing? In some cases it is, but in other cases it is just giving up. One needs to have a balance between the two.

I also agree with everyone who sees this scene about Helen accepting Locke for who he is, but I actually think it really is more about Locke in the end. Locke appears to have perceived or somehow felt that she didn't love him just as he was. He needed to hear her tell him that that wasn't the case. She loves him. Helen might have also been struggling, but in the end that scene was about Locke realizing that she truly loved him unconditionally. I think that is why Helen made the grand gesture of tearing up the card...she realized that doing so would alleviate his fears.

Helen was the only thing in Lockes entire life that was worth it. I hope things work for them, even though I know they are probaly going to split or Helen dies.

I have a bit of a different take on this scene than many I guess. I did not understand it to be about Locke's acceptance of his condition but of Helen's acceptance of his condition. When Locke is in the tub and Helen is coaxing him to call Jack, Locke is having doubts about whether he is good enough for Helen. He then goes to make the call but hangs up and tells Helen, in essence, accept me as I am cause it ain't gonna change. Helen does. I strongly suspect that we will see Locke make the call eventually. However, he will do it for himself not because he feels inadequate for Helen.

The casting of Katy Segal as Helen was well done, I always liked Helen and Locke and was glad to see them happy in the alt.

I think it was all about Locke's acceptance. Remember, he was still parking in normal parking spaces, asking for construction jobs, trying to go on Walkabouts. But in this life, his dad (who shattered his ideas of trust in the previous universe) probably hasnt conned him and as a result this Locke can accept things better, because he has loving people around him. He has his dad and he has Helen.

What I think is more important is that in the off-island timeline we saw previously, Helen had left him and he was using a chat-line girl as a substitute. It also seems that, since Helen mentioned him coming to the wedding, that Locke's relationship with his father is also different in the timeline. Very curious.

It looks like somehow what happened on the Island after 1977 (in the original timeline) also had a bearing on the life of Locke's father.

Now that events are different (well, in the alternate reality anway) it looks like Locke's father actually didn't screw him over and they have a good relationship.

That probably also has repercussions on the personality of alt-Sawyer who took the name that Locke's father used after the tragic events following him conning Sawyer's parents. Maybe he's not a conman in the alt-universe, probably doesn't even use the surname 'Sawyer' either.


It is interesting that some of the parents of our main characters seem to have been connected with/influenced by events on the Island in the past. It would also explain why parents of main characters have been featured prominently in flashbacks in earlier seasons.


So far at any rate, it would seem that the alternate reality is a much better reality for most of the people on Oceanic 815. It certainly is for all the ones who died in the crash or on the Island.

Locke also has a picture of himself and Cooper in his cubicle...

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=134537&fullsize=1

Count me in as a lover of this timeline, although now I'm even more perplexed as to what originally caused Locke's paralysis. Didn't Jack from the Jay and Jack show once have a theory that Locke was the one who wrecked with Adam Rutherford (Shannon's Dad) and that's how he got paralyzed? 'Cause that could possibly lead to explaining why Shannon isn't on the plane, as well as why Jack seems to be kind of, I don't know, stable. Because he never met Sarah if that's the case. But if he fixes Locke, that parallels his originally fixing Sarah, who was originally in the wreck.

Ok, are we assuming that exploding the device in 1977 changed reality in the whole world? If so, could we also assume that Locke's Dad didn't cause his paralysis and therefore he has a spinal injury that can be fixed, like Jack's ex that Jack fixed way back when?

Personally, I was thrilled when Helen opened that door and saw her standing there. Their relationship really added a lot to this episode and made me feel good for Locke for once. He finally has a good thing going for him. I just wish he would stop acting like he isn't in a wheelchair. The parking issue would never have been had he just parked in the right spot. Of course, then he wouldn't have met Hugo.

Anyway, I'm hoping this relationship lasts a good long time and that in this alt reality Helen doesn't die.

Hate to say it but I think Helen is still going to die. Helen's nail polish was the color black. So knowing Lost this is a clue that death will be coming.

Maybe Helen's death will get Locke to finally call Jack.

I'm glad Locke has a woman and all, but I don't want him to turn all soft. I still want to see him blow stuff up.

The only thing that confuses me about this scenario is the suggestion that things may be different between Locke and his father, otherwise why would Helen speak of the father without a tinge of hatred in her voice. You wouldn't normally invite to your wedding someone who pushed you out of a window, right? If that's the case, how did post-LAX Locke end up in the wheelchair? He's still angry about being paralyzed, but how did it happen?

Questions, questions ...

Do you remember in the episode where Emily Locke finds John? She is in the big fur coat and he is following her around a parking lot. A car backs out of a spot and hits John, he is knocked to the ground, gets up and keeps following his mother. Perhaps in the alt time-line, that is how it happens, or somthing like it.

When Helen came out of the house my mom and I teared up and screamed "YES!!!! HELEN!!!!!" I just love her so much. She's so amazing, I love her vibe. So warm and nurturing and cool. God, I just love her! And I love Katey Sagal too.

Agree 100% Warm and Nurturing are great words to use!

I am curious about how Locke and Helen met in the alt-uni. In the first timeline they met in anger management therapy. Without Cooper stealing his kidney, Locke would not have been in therapy.