Richard: "Candidate, what do you mean a candidate?"

Flocke: "Didn't Jacob tell you any of this?"

Richard: "Any of what?"

Flocke: "Richard, I'm sorry....you mean, you've been doing everything he told you all this time and he never said why?"

This really screams to me that Jacob/Flocke were indeed working against a third party (the island? God? Fate? Ned Flanders?), but had, at some point, a philosophical split in how to go about achieving their supposed goal of getting off the island.

The only weakness in this is Ilana in her wonderfully tight shirt with her recruiting comment. Although, Jacob could have been hiding the full truth from her as well.

You mean you read that scene as to say that he was surprised Richard didn't know about the great and important plan him and his buddy Jacob were working on for centuries? Interesting, but I think that if they are working together it can't be reasonably assumed from this scene. MIB seems to be baiting Richard, much as he did to Ben. "You mean he didn't tell you everything. Wow. What a bad guy. Come to the dark side man, all answers, no responsibilities. Drugs and rock and roll!"

Richard doesn't fall for it, but if MIB actually wanted Richard to come with him (and Jacob if they are working together), he would simply tell Richard that Jacob and him are on the same side.

My guess is he's making the whole "candidate" notion up, in order to delude someone into helping him escape. First MIB tries to con Richard, and when that doesn't work, we see him immediately go to Sawyer and try to do the same. There's absolutely nothing that definitively says Jacob had anything to do with those names scrawled on the wall of the cave, so for all we know that was all MIB's doing.

Jacob is not bad. I think the show is playing out fairly straight forward now.

Richard doesn't fall for it, but if MIB actually wanted Richard to come with him (and Jacob if they are working together), he would simply tell Richard that Jacob and him are on the same side.

Which implies that MIB knows that Richard knows enough about the situation (not everything, but enough) not to fall for a line like "we were working together the whole time, honest!" So instead he tries to appeal to a sense of frustration about being left out of the loop.

When Bram asked Ilana, after the Ajira crash, if Lapidus was a candidate, what was he referring to? They were both shocked at Smokey assuming Locke's visage, and yet, she was shocked that Jacob died. Who or what did they think Lapidus could be a candidate for? If Jacob needed a candidate so badly, why not pick one of his loyal servants or bodyguards? Seems like they're willing to lay down their lives for him.

When Bram asked Ilana, after the Ajira crash, if Lapidus was a candidate, what was he referring to? They were both shocked at Smokey assuming Locke's visage, and yet, she was shocked that Jacob died. Who or what did they think Lapidus could be a candidate for? If Jacob needed a candidate so badly, why not pick one of his loyal servants or bodyguards? Seems like they're willing to lay down their lives for him.


This goes to the questions......

Why did Jacob choose those he touched?
What was the criterion for choosing those people?
Why are the names on the wall? Is it simply a checklist?
What constitutes a viable candidate?

Jacob is not bad. I think the show is playing out fairly straight forward now.

agreed

I think that conversation demonstrated that Jacob and the MIB's methods aren't all that differant. Two sides of the same coin. I'm not sure if they're working together towards a common goal, but with how convoluted everything is-who knows?

My guess is he's making the whole "candidate" notion up, in order to delude someone into helping him escape. First MIB tries to con Richard, and when that doesn't work, we see him immediately go to Sawyer and try to do the same. There's absolutely nothing that definitively says Jacob had anything to do with those names scrawled on the wall of the cave, so for all we know that was all MIB's doing.

But Jacob's people (Illana, and that guy...can't remember his name) were talking about Lapidus being a candidate. I think it's an actual thing, not made up by MIB.
100%
Jacob is not bad. I think the show is playing out fairly straight forward now.

Really? After last night's ep, I'm 100% on MIB's side, I think it was pretty clear (to me at least) that Jacob is an a-hole, and MIB is against him for that reason. Unless Locke hypnotized me...

Jacob is not bad. I think the show is playing out fairly straight forward now.

I must disagree with this notion. Even though MIB was asking Sawyer to join him, leave with him, ala join the dark side in Star Wars, I am still not sure who is "evil" and who is "good". If what MIB told Sawyer is true, that Jacob is recruiting these people to protect nothing, then Jacob, in my mind, would be considered "evil". He is just using these people, just like Cooper and countless other people in this show.

The who is good, who is evil question is far from being concrete or even revealed yet.

The only weakness in this is Ilana in her wonderfully tight shirt.
Weakness? Why is that a weakness?
I loved the way she looked in that tight shirt
:kiss:

Weakness? Why is that a weakness?
I loved the way she looked in that tight shirt
:kiss:


LOL me too....I meant weakness in the theory, because she's definitely anti-MiB. Is it me or Ilana SMOKIN'.

If what MIB told Sawyer is true, that Jacob is recruiting these people to protect nothing, then Jacob, in my mind, would be considered "evil". He is just using these people, just like Cooper and countless other people in this show.



I'm not sure who's good and who's evil either, but remember that Jacob spent many, MANY years on the Island "protecting" it. I am sure that he believes that it's something worth protecting. And if he believes that, I'm not sure you can call him evil trying to find a substitute. I'm pretty certain he's not doing it just to mess with our Losties...:)

please learn to use the spoiler font. Its the big S in the reply.

Actually no, they shouldn't! That's the reason why any information about upcoming episodes - and that includes speculation based on spoilers - outside of the spoiler-sections has to be spoiler fonted.

I agree with those who say that it is far too early to be calling anyone good or evil. To do so would be to make assumptions based on a shortage of facts, which makes the assumptions unusable. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I'm convinced that the split between Jacob and MiB was over their philosophies of how to deal with a singular problem, that they are both trapped on the island. Although after this episode, it seems more that MiB is trapped there by Jacob, not because of any power that Jacob has over him, but because Jacob and MiB were in disagreement of whether the island needed to be protected or not. It's possible that they came there together and thus must leave together, which would explain why MiB felt that his best shot would be to kill Jacob.

LOL me too....I meant weakness in the theory, because she's definitely anti-MiB. Is it me or Ilana SMOKIN'.

No, it is most definitely NOT just you.
:5:Ilana:8:

JWilson3- Dude seriously, you should really be more spoiler sensitive.
I knew both of those already (but especially the 2nd one) wish I didn't.
I got them from DarkUFO months ago when I couldn't take the drought any longer.
Maybe be a little more vague next time, even with spoiler tags, when not in the spoilers section.

I know a lot of times if I'm reading a post and it has a spoiler tag;
I'll click it because I want to get the context of the post. ( and knowing that I'm pretty spoiled anyway) but I'd bet half the people who clicked that wish they didn't.
I keep waiting for the reveal. See below for an example of how I'd have put it.
Ilana has quite a special Relationship with the Island/Jacob and
Jacob may not be Smocke's only nemesis.
just a suggestion, to keep some of the mystery in it.

The big reveal, as far as Jacob and MIB is concerned, begins with Jacob-zombie saying to MIB:

"Pay up, Mortimer, I've won the bet..."

Yes, MIB's first name is Mortimer, as a matter of fact.

Randolph Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000897/): Pay up, Mortimer. I've won the bet.
Mortimer Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000747/): Here, one dollar.
Randolph Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000897/): [chuckling] We took a perfectly useless psychopath like Valentine, and turned him into a successful executive. And during the same time, we turned an honest, hard-working man into a violently, deranged, would-be killer!
[laughs]
Randolph Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000897/): Now, what are we going to do about taking Winthorpe back and returning Valentine to the ghetto?
Mortimer Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000747/): I don't want Winthorpe back, after what he's done.
Randolph Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000897/): You mean, keep *Valentine* on as managing director?
Mortimer Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000747/): Do you really believe I would have a n*gger run our family business, Randolph?
[Valentine's eyes widen with outrage]
Randolph Duke (http://forum.thefuselage.com/name/nm0000897/): Of course not. Neither would I.

great flick sorry OT

When Bram asked Ilana, after the Ajira crash, if Lapidus was a candidate, what was he referring to? They were both shocked at Smokey assuming Locke's visage, and yet, she was shocked that Jacob died. Who or what did they think Lapidus could be a candidate for? If Jacob needed a candidate so badly, why not pick one of his loyal servants or bodyguards? Seems like they're willing to lay down their lives for him.

Great question! In this context, I think Bram was referring to Jacob's team or followers and not a "candidate" replacement for Jacob. It does seem ambiguous but using the term "candidate" in that scene has turned out to be a huge "EE".

Bram and Ilana did not know that Jacob would be killed at that time. Ilana and Bram must have known that dead Locke in the crate could be a potential body to be used by the BSM. Ilana had to have known something was up because of Jacob asking her for help.

Hopefully we'll get more on Ilana's back story and how she came to know Jacob.
100%
The big reveal, as far as Jacob and MIB is concerned, begins with Jacob-zombie saying to MIB:

"Pay up, Mortimer, I've won the bet..."


Yes, MIB's first name is Mortimer, as a matter of fact.

Exactly how would you know for a fact that MIB's first name is Mortimer? If this is a canon spoiler, please use the spoiler tags. Just a suggestion.

Exactly how would you know for a fact that MIB's first name is Mortimer? If this is a canon spoiler, please use the spoiler tags. Just a suggestion.

Futura: I appreciate your concern. I hate untagged spoilers as much as do you. The Mortimer reference was a gag intended for anyone familiar with the movie, "Trading Places." But just to be safe, I will spoiler tag the next big reveal:

Jacob (aka Randolph) and MIB (Mortimer In Black) are brothers and their last name is Duke. They are all done with arguing about heredity versus environment, and are now on to free will versus destiny. Otherwise little really has changed.
I don't want to brag but I foresaw Lost turning out to be basically a rip-off of Trading Places way back at the end of season five. The proof is contained in this link. (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=2191245&postcount=14)

;)