Okay, having rewatched, I have questions:

We know Jacob and Flocke have been hanging around this island for a while.

We know Flocke is desperate to bail, and 'go home.'

We know Jacob is the one orchestrating people finding the island: now we apparently know that they're meant to be candidates, who can replace him as Protector.

I'm wondering:

1. If Jacob needed a Candidate, why didn't he simply tap into Ben, or one of the Others, like Widmore or Ellie, years ago? Surely, rather than coercing/ manipulating unsuspecting people to the Island over and over, he would've been better off using someone who was willingly on the Island, wanted to stay, and was aware of the island's properties? Seems like a lot of guesswork and a waste of time, bringing strangers to the Island repeatedly and hoping one of them turned out to be Candidate. Unless someone else altogether is providing him with names?

2. If Jacob was looking for a replacement, doesn't that indicate he would've left the Island after finding one? I mean, you don't need a replacement unless you're leaving. So, if he left, wouldn't MIB be able to leave too? Considering these two are bound together? And if that's the case, wouldn't MIB want Jacob to find that replacement pronto, so he could hightail it out of there? Unless Jacob's departure somehow meant eternal island imprisonment for MIB?

3. So many crossed out names, so many possible candidates. To me, it seems being the right/ successful candidate requires some sort of uniqueness, or some enormous sacrifice. It's a job that hasn't been filled for decades, maybe even centuries. What does one need to be the right candidate?

Thoughts? And apologies if there's another thread for this.

2. If Jacob was looking for a replacement, doesn't that indicate he would've left the Island after finding one? I mean, you don't need a replacement unless you're leaving. So, if he left, wouldn't MIB be able to leave too? Considering these two are bound together? And if that's the case, wouldn't MIB want Jacob to find that replacement pronto, so he could hightail it out of there? Unless Jacob's departure somehow meant eternal island imprisonment for MIB?

That's been bugging me too. Or did Jacob know he was going to die and therefore need a replacement? He could be kind of selfish at that point, and let the island fend for itself.

Seems strange that Rousseau said that Smokey protects the island and Montand said it he protects the temple when, in reality, neither seems to be true.

Why didn't Jacob pick someone like Illana or Bram. They were perfectly willing to work for him and risk their lives to come to the Island. Why weren't they suitable candidates?

Why didn't Jacob pick someone like Illana or Bram. They were perfectly willing to work for him and risk their lives to come to the Island. Why weren't they suitable candidates?

Good followers do not generally make good leaders.

Good followers do not generally make good leaders.

A fine point. It just speaks to who these "candidates" are though. What makes them so special? Other than being the stars of the show that is?

Why didn't Jacob pick someone like Illana or Bram. They were perfectly willing to work for him and risk their lives to come to the Island. Why weren't they suitable candidates?

It can't just be some random person though. They have to fulfill some sort or requirements. One is being on this huge list (I don't think Richard, Bram, etc. are on it.) After that you have to pass certain tests I think.

We see Charlie going through tests with is heroin. After he kicks it, they find a plane full of heroin. Hurley trashes his food then food drops from the sky. I bet there are specific tasks and tests that each of our Losties are going through.

It can't just be some random person though. They have to fulfill some sort or requirements. One is being on this huge list (I don't think Richard, Bram, etc. are on it.) After that you have to pass certain tests I think.

We see Charlie going through tests with is heroin. After he kicks it, they find a plane full of heroin. Hurley trashes his food then food drops from the sky. I bet there are specific tasks and tests that each of our Losties are going through.

Well then that brings up the question: What makes Illana and Bram so special that they can stop others a la Miles from going to the Island? What is it about this group that makes them right for having this special question and the ability to offer huge sums of money to keep certain people from the Island?

Good points.

So, is one's role determined by personality, experiences, or something else i.e. pre-determination?

Also, re Ilana and Bram, where do they get their resources from? Can't imagine Jacob handing out wads of cash, though it is possible.

I want to know where the List originally came from, and the more I ponder it, the more it seems it was preordained and given to Jacob, somehow. I used to feel Jacob had created it, but now I feel he had this endless list of possible names, and he tried influencing as many as he could off island. Some worked, some didn't. And of those who managed to come to the island, most died.

That kid may be the answer: if he's a referee or supervisor of the Game and both Jacob and MIB, perhaps he gave the names to Jacob over time, allowing him to make his move via interaction with candidates.

Gah!

Well then that brings up the question: What makes Illana and Bram so special that they can stop others a la Miles from going to the Island? What is it about this group that makes them right for having this special question and the ability to offer huge sums of money to keep certain people from the Island?
Plaase don't take this the wrong way but: ;)

It was Whidmore who had the money to pay Miles to go to the Island.

"Some Like it Hoth"
NAOMI: From what I understand Miles, if the price is right this is exactly your thing.
[Naomi tosses Miles a wad of money. Miles looks at it.]
Ilana's and Bram's group refused to pay him anything.

"Some Like it Hoth"
MILES: I don't know where you've been getting your intel, but I stopped caring about my father a long time ago. What I do care about is money. So, I'll tell you what, you want me to pass on going to the island It's gonna cost you double what they offered. Three point two million.
BRAM: We're not paying you anything. All the money in the world isn’t gonna fill that empty hole inside you Miles.

Plaase don't take this the wrong way but: ;)

It was Whidmore who had the money to pay Miles to go to the Island.

"Some Like it Hoth"

Ilana's and Bram's group refused to pay him anything.

"Some Like it Hoth"

Oh crap! Thanks NBC! It wasn't Jacob's folk that had the cash. Thank you. They were just the first ones there when the $3.2 million was mentioned.

1. If Jacob needed a Candidate, why didn't he simply tap into Ben, or one of the Others, like Widmore or Ellie, years ago? Surely, rather than coercing/ manipulating unsuspecting people to the Island over and over, he would've been better off using someone who was willingly on the Island, wanted to stay, and was aware of the island's properties? Seems like a lot of guesswork and a waste of time, bringing strangers to the Island repeatedly and hoping one of them turned out to be Candidate. Unless someone else altogether is providing him with names?

The right person is just the right person. Think of an election. You often hear people complain that they don't like either candidate and so they end up voting for "the lesser of two evils." That's not good enough for Jacob, and this isn't an election. He's obviously had a long time to first JUST the right person.

2. If Jacob was looking for a replacement, doesn't that indicate he would've left the Island after finding one? I mean, you don't need a replacement unless you're leaving. So, if he left, wouldn't MIB be able to leave too? Considering these two are bound together? And if that's the case, wouldn't MIB want Jacob to find that replacement pronto, so he could hightail it out of there? Unless Jacob's departure somehow meant eternal island imprisonment for MIB?

I wouldn't infer any of that until we know more about the relationship between Jacob and MiB. Obviously Jacob already HAS left the Island, on multiple occasions, and MiB can't. So we already know their relationship is uneven.

3. So many crossed out names, so many possible candidates. To me, it seems being the right/ successful candidate requires some sort of uniqueness, or some enormous sacrifice. It's a job that hasn't been filled for decades, maybe even centuries. What does one need to be the right candidate?

A very good question. Perhaps it's a matter of searching through the streams of causality to find who is destined for the role.

I just got a chill, wondering exactly who 'JUST the right person' could possibly be and more importantly, why, Rodimus. :)

You're right, Jacob could get off the island, but I was sort of wondering about the nature of his off island visits: I think they were always temporary, with a specific goal in mind i.e. reaching out to a candidate. I somehow feel he couldn't leave for good either, anymore than MIB can.

Or is it a matter of Jacob didnt' want to leave till he'd found the candidate, whereas MIB didn't care?

I wouldn't infer any of that until we know more about the relationship between Jacob and MiB. Obviously Jacob already HAS left the Island, on multiple occasions, and MiB can't. So we already know their relationship is uneven.



I don't think it's safe to say MIB definitely can't leave the island either. In my Smokey Vision Flashes thread, some have concluded that it looks like Smokey is teleporting in our 1st person Smokey angle. We have also only seen Jacob go for brief moments. Maybe MIB can do the same, but he wants to leave permanently. I just firmly believe that MIB has been putting things in place off-island somehow just like Jacob. Maybe not him directly going, but maybe infecting people to do something for him.

Also, I don't think we can conclude yet that home is off-island. Sure he implies it to Sawyer, but since when are we taking MIB at his word? It is likely he is lying to Sawyer about something, if not everything. It might have been the only way to convince him to help MIB in some way.

But, you are right that it seems their relationship is uneven. MIB seems very upset about something. Maybe Jacob and MIB both have the same role, but Jacob chose it and MIB didn't.

Or, if he is an alien, then home doesn't necessarily even equate with leaving the Island.

Good followers do not generally make good leaders.

Anyone could look at Charlie Pace for two minutes and know he wasn't a leader. Why bother writing his name on the wall at all? Something else is going on.

Of course, you are accepting Flocke's word that this candidacy is to replace Jacob. If we question Flocke's motivations, then shouldn't we also question what he says to get his way?

I had a clear sense that he was liberally mixing truths, half-truths and lies when he was trying to recruit Sawyer. Truth - Jacob brought Sawyer to the island. Half-truth - the Losties are candidates to replace Jacob. I think they are candidates for something (mostly since Illana and Bram spoke of candidates) - but not necessarily to replace Jacob. I think Flocke sees Sawyer as a candidate to replace Smokey so that he (Flocke) can be set free. Lie - "What kid?" After asking Sawyer if he saw the kid, chasing the kid, being chastised by the kid - when Sawyer asks about him, Flocke replies "What kid?" as if there wasn't one to begin with.

The problem here is we're going off of Flocke's definition of what a candidate is. He might or might not be telling the truth about what the that role entails. I'm still struggling with believing Jacob is the "good" guy in this story. Something tells me we're getting snowed.

I have big issues with Jacob being the good guy. But, every time I try to apply good guy to Smokey, I see Eko being slammed into trees and the ground. I know Eko was a killer, but was he wrong for not repenting?

I personally am having a problem with the whole good vs. evil thing. How about we park that for a bit, and just examine possible motives in terms of an end game?

Agreed, that MIB isn't necessarily a bastion of honesty. Still, I believe he wants to 'go home.' And I also believe the candidate theory is real. I am questioning: candidate for what, exactly?

I personally am having a problem with the whole good vs. evil thing. How about we park that for a bit, and just examine possible motives in terms of an end game?

Agreed, that MIB isn't necessarily a bastion of honesty. Still, I believe he wants to 'go home.' And I also believe the candidate theory is real. I am questioning: candidate for what, exactly?

I agree. This isn't a good vs evil story, even if that's what Darlton would like us to believe.....As for motives in the end game, Jacob hasn't exactly been forthcoming about his agenda. We can piece together a narrative that seems to indicate that he's got a soft spot for humanity, but I doubt he's that altruistic. The MIB on the other hand has been fairly open in comparision. He wants to go home, and will do what it takes to get him there. That doesn't necessarily make him "bad" though.

rabid, to carry your excellent thought forward, what if MIB, in his apparent lack of judgement of humans, is in fact the more benevolent entity? Doesn't judge, nor expect.... isn't that ideal in a sense?

rabid, to carry your excellent thought forward, what if MIB, in his apparent lack of judgement of humans, is in fact the more benevolent entity? Doesn't judge, nor expect.... isn't that ideal in a sense?

Well, the MIB is at the very least critical of the people Jacob has brought to the Island. They have not been an ideal representation of what humanity has to offer, although I'm still not sure that's what these two are fighting about. In that sense he is judging, or at least serving as a prosecutor of sorts. Jacob is like the defense counsel, bringing out an endless string of evidence and witnesses to advance his side of the debate, with no end in sight. That has to be frustrating for the MIB, who just wants the debate to over with and who feels that he has done his due diligence in proving that humanity (free will?) is a failed experiment.