Makes perfect sense now:

Jacob = Light He has a "light" house
Unlocke = Dark He lives in a cave

They're each keeping track of who's left - keeping score if you will - Jacob on the compass mirror and Unlocke on the cave wall.

I guess Unlocke was lying to Sawyer when he said it was Jacob doing the writing in there.

Makes perfect sense now:

Jacob = Light He has a "light" house
Unlocke = Dark He lives in a cave

They're each keeping track of who's left - keeping score if you will - Jacob on the compass mirror and Unlocke on the cave wall.

I guess Unlocke was lying to Sawyer when he said it was Jacob doing the writing in there.


We don't really know this for sure though. Jacob is having Hurley manipulate Jack into busting up mirrors in his own lighthouse as he's trying to supposedly help this mysterious party get to the island? Seems to me more proof that MiB was telling the truth to Sawyer about it being Jacob's cave.

the difference between all the names scratched onto the wall in a cave and the ones neatly written on the Wheel is HUGE...it stands to reason they are probably not written by the same person.

So was the foot just another vacation spot? What about the moving haunted cabin?

oh great connection awolben! and further proof that Jacob is the Good Guy!!!

I just keep thinking it was Smokey's house.
Jacob got the statue and Smokey got the Lighthouse.
Jacob used Hurley to make Smokey stop spying on people. I'm just not buying Jacob is the good guy in this.

oh great connection awolben! and further proof that Jacob is the Good Guy!!!

But isn't LOST all about the mirror opposites? I do have to say I was nudged just a bit further to the "Jacob is the good guy" side. I've always thought Jacob wasn't so good. I'm still 99% Jacob is evil.

Actually, I'm leaning more and more towards Jacob being the good guy after seeing a stormtrooper with the word "obey" on his avatar denounce Jacob...but back to the lighthouse, doesn't it seem that there are a lot of "homes" for these entities (some that appear out of nowhere). The cabin, the temple, the foot, the cave, the lighthouse...maybe some of them are the same place and just disguised to look differently depending on what you "see."

I'm not convinced it was Jacob's lighthouse or that Jacob was/is good. He's too manipulative. And he doesn't seem to care at all about the people in the temple -- and isn't Richard, who followed him without question, heading for the temple last we saw him? Yet Jacob doesn't care?

Okay, what if dead Jacob is actually Claire's friend? In other words, the person appearing to Hurley is someone different than the Jacob we saw die.

Okay, what if dead Jacob is actually Claire's friend? In other words, the person appearing to Hurley is someone different than the Jacob we saw die.

That's not possible 'cause fakeLocke is Claire's friend and that is locked in Locke's appearance forever as was revealed in the last episode. He can't take different shapes now.

That's not possible 'cause fakeLocke is Claire's friend and that is locked in Locke's appearance forever as was revealed in the last episode. He can't take different shapes now.

I know that Ilana said that...but we're still getting odd manifestations, and it isn't clear which manifestations came from who early on in the series...

I know that Ilana said that...but we're still getting odd manifestations, and it isn't clear which manifestations came from who early on in the series...

Considering we didn't even find out there were two different people/beings/entities until the finale of season five...can we be sure there are only two? There could be a baseball team running around on the island.

I am 100% sure that Jacob is a Good one ;)
MIB is a killer. Killer could NOT be a Good one. No way

I am 100% sure that Jacob is a Good one ;)
MIB is a killer. Killer could NOT be a Good one. No way

And yet Jacob's candidates are killers (Sawyer, Sayid).

How many people have died because Jacob brought them to the island? Sorry, in my books Jacob IS a killer.

Not sure Jacob is good.

But I can't buy the arguments that MIB is good. Just can't see the good guy hanging out with chicks who keep boar skulls in cribs.

And yet Jacob's candidates are killers (Sawyer, Sayid).

How many people have died because Jacob brought them to the island? Sorry, in my books Jacob IS a killer.

Just look around - How many Christians, Muslims are killers? So, does it proove God is NOT GOOD?

People died not because Jacob brought them to The Island:biggrin: Don't You see that?

MIB is a killer himself

I can't help wondering if the Lighthouse is somehow connected to the Lamppost station.
Many people assumed the Dharma Lamppost logo was a Lighthouse when they first saw it.

The cave= the subconsciousness, instincts, darkness, the soul, faith, religion, primitivity, magic = the smoke monster
The lighthouse = consciousness, rational thought, science, light, time-travel, civilization = Jacob


Re: lamppost

I wonder if Charles Widmore sold the secret of finding the island to the Hanso Corporation and got enough money off that to found his business empire.
I think that Charles Widmore knows pretty much everything about the island you need to know because he was the last in the line of "legitimate" leaders.

Frozen Donkey Wheel=Smokey
Mirror Wheel= Jacob

Jacob doesn't care about anyone other than the candidates IMO.

Consider, maybe, that the names in the cave were written in white; the names on the dial were written in black.

The cave= the subconsciousness, instincts, darkness, the soul, faith, religion, primitivity, magic = the smoke monster
The lighthouse = consciousness, rational thought, science, light, time-travel, civilization = Jacob


Re: lamppost

I wonder if Charles Widmore sold the secret of finding the island to the Hanso Corporation and got enough money off that to found his business empire.
I think that Charles Widmore knows pretty much everything about the island you need to know because he was the last in the line of "legitimate" leaders.

Also, the method of reaching each location:

Dark Cave = ladders down down down
Light House= stairs up up up

Question is: Which hideout belongs to whom??

Are "Jacob's Ladders" a hint that the cave belongs to him?
Why didn't Jacob tell Hurley where to find a key to the Lighthouse door?
Why didn't he care that Jack destroyed the LH mirrors?

I'm still not 100% sure that either side - Dark or Light- is actually Good or Bad. It really all depends on perception.

And Widmore...I absolutely agree that he profited from the island, strange that he was never a "candidate" apparently. :confused:

We don't really know this for sure though. Jacob is having Hurley manipulate Jack into busting up mirrors in his own lighthouse as he's trying to supposedly help this mysterious party get to the island? Seems to me more proof that MiB was telling the truth to Sawyer about it being Jacob's cave.


I believe that the person that Jacob is "trying to get to the island" is Jack.... get him onboard the Jacob agenda, not physically.

Also, the method of reaching each location:

Dark Cave = ladders down down down
Light House= stairs up up up

Question is: Which hideout belongs to whom??

Are "Jacob's Ladders" a hint that the cave belongs to him?
Why didn't Jacob tell Hurley where to find a key to the Lighthouse door?
Why didn't he care that Jack destroyed the LH mirrors?

I'm still not 100% sure that either side - Dark or Light- is actually Good or Bad. It really all depends on perception.

And Widmore...I absolutely agree that he profited from the island, strange that he was never a "candidate" apparently. :confused:


I am pretty sure that the lighthouse was Jacob's device. Another clue: Jacob telling Hurley to tell Jack "You have what it takes". This was meant to give Jack some self-confidence and Jacob knew of Christian's influence and he knew that Christian regularly told Jack: "You don't have what it takes". How did Jacob know? He cannot read the minds of people for all we know. He has to get to know that by watching. At the 2009 Comic con, TPMB told the audience that Jacob never appeared in a different form on the show, so he was not Christian. The only other solution is that Jacob spoke to dead Christian in dead-land.
This "time-travelling" mirror seems to confirm Jacob's unusual sense of temporal rules that allow him to be at the right time and the right place to change things in his way..... That gives me the idea..... A lighthouse is meant to guide the way. Maybe the reflections show the right time and place for Jacob to influence people to get to the island? That would be correct for Sawyer and Jin and Sun, but sadly, Jacob did not visit Jack at his house. However, he DID visit him when he was with his father, and Jacob told Jack "sometimes they need a little push", as if to reconcile Jack and his father.

Re: bad and good, hmm I guess my list strongly implies that one side is good and one side is bad. I added "magic" to the caves, because I didn't want to give the impression that the Smoke Monster's side is all bad. Religion is a constructive element in many people's lives and science can be abused for evil things, too... but well, in our time and age the roles seem clear.

I am pretty sure that the lighthouse was Jacob's device. Another clue: Jacob telling Hurley to tell Jack "You have what it takes". This was meant to give Jack some self-confidence and Jacob knew of Christian's influence and he knew that Christian regularly told Jack: "You don't have what it takes". How did Jacob know? He cannot read the minds of people for all we know. He has to get to know that by watching. At the 2009 Comic con, TPMB told the audience that Jacob never appeared in a different form on the show, so he was not Christian. The only other solution is that Jacob spoke to dead Christian in dead-land.
This "time-travelling" mirror seems to confirm Jacob's unusual sense of temporal rules that allow him to be at the right time and the right place to change things in his way..... That gives me the idea..... A lighthouse is meant to guide the way. Maybe the reflections show the right time and place for Jacob to influence people to get to the island? That would be correct for Sawyer and Jin and Sun, but sadly, Jacob did not visit Jack at his house. However, he DID visit him when he was with his father, and Jacob told Jack "sometimes they need a little push", as if to reconcile Jack and his father.

Re: bad and good, hmm I guess my list strongly implies that one side is good and one side is bad. I added "magic" to the caves, because I didn't want to give the impression that the Smoke Monster's side is all bad. Religion is a constructive element in many people's lives and science can be abused for evil things, too... but well, in our time and age the roles seem clear.

You make some very good points for the lighthouse belonging to Jacob. Maybe the "little push" was foreshadowing the little kick that was needed from Jack to open the lighthouse door?

Jacob told the MIB, in The Incident, that he himself brought the Black Rock to the island, so I think it's safe to say that Jacob is the one bringing-guiding people there. The lighthouse was clearly being used to observe the world outside, and lighthouses, in general, act as guides or reference points, so it does seem as if Jacob is using the lighthouse.

The lines between good and evil are usually, but not always, clear (especially on LOST!) For instance, if Jacob manipulates the "fates" of people (thereby turning their "free will" into an illusion) BUT he does it for reasons that are "good" ( i.e. a second chance to redeem their souls or find their true potential/destinies etc) the people he has manipulated won't know that a greater good was served unless they know what "might have been" without Jacob's influence. Hence, the ALT No Jacob Time-line! We can see it, but they can't...yet.

Jack now knows that he has been observed and manipulated and he is angry. To him, Jacob seems evil. His No Jacob Time-line is by all accounts much happier than this one. So that would suggest that Jacob's meddling is not good, for now...

We still have yet to see what Jacob's master plan for Jack is.

The symbolism of caves and lighthouses would certainly suggest dark/evil light/good, but I think you are probably closer to the truth with Faith vs Science. Both embody elements that could be similarly perceived and good and evil.

In other words, sometimes "blind faith" can blind us and keep us in the dark, but similarly, we can be "blinded by the light" :biggrin:

In other words, sometimes "blind faith" can blind us and keep us in the dark, but similarly, we can be "blinded by the light" :biggrin:

Hehe, yes.

Just look around - How many Christians, Muslims are killers? So, does it proove God is NOT GOOD?

People died not because Jacob brought them to The Island:biggrin: Don't You see that?

MIB is a killer himself

Gary Troup died because he was a candidate, Jacob brought him to the island on Flight 815 which crashed and he got sucked into a jet engine. How is his death NOT the result of Jacob bringing people to the island?

Yes, MiB is a killer. So is Jacob. Jacob brought people to the island and they died as a result of being on the island.

Gary Troup died because he was a candidate, Jacob brought him to the island on Flight 815 which crashed and he got sucked into a jet engine. How is his death NOT the result of Jacob bringing people to the island?

Yes, MiB is a killer. So is Jacob. Jacob brought people to the island and they died as a result of being on the island.


I think the argument here is - Did Jacob push Troup into the engine to kill him? Did he put any of those people on the plane to kill them? If his goal was to kill those people and he had enough power to get them on a plane in the first place then how did he not have enough power to ensure the crash would kill everyone?

I go back to last season's finale with Jacob and Mib on the beach watching the Black Rock come to the island. MiB says they'll just go corrupt and kill and die and Jacob says that may be so but that whatever happens before that is just progress. Jacob's hope is that death and corruption and the like don't happen but knows death may be the cost for the opportunity. MiB has given up all hope on any of the inhabitants of the island progressing and questions why Jacob keeps bringing people here.

To be more specific to your post - Death is not the result of him bringing people to the island. It appears to be an unfortunate side-effect but not his purpose. Death does appear to be MiB's purpose - a sentiment duly expressed to us by Alpert to Sawyer - "He doesn't want just you dead, but everyone...."

I think the argument here is - Did Jacob push Troup into the engine to kill him? Did he put any of those people on the plane to kill them? If his goal was to kill those people and he had enough power to get them on a plane in the first place then how did he not have enough power to ensure the crash would kill everyone?

I go back to last season's finale with Jacob and Mib on the beach watching the Black Rock come to the island. MiB says they'll just go corrupt and kill and die and Jacob says that may be so but that whatever happens before that is just progress. Jacob's hope is that death and corruption and the like don't happen but knows death may be the cost for the opportunity. MiB has given up all hope on any of the inhabitants of the island progressing and questions why Jacob keeps bringing people here.

To be more specific to your post - Death is not the result of him bringing people to the island. It appears to be an unfortunate side-effect but not his purpose. Death does appear to be MiB's purpose - a sentiment duly expressed to us by Alpert to Sawyer - "He doesn't want just you dead, but everyone...."

We'll just have to agree to disagree...no matter what his intentions (and you know what they say about good intentions), I can't believe anyone who manipulated people's lives just to prove a point is a good person.

Jacob is manipulative. Geez people, have you read the Bible? Do you know all the stuff that God did to people to test them, push them etc? Would you say that God is bad?

Jacob is not necessarily good, but he is better than the alternative. Richard seems to think so and he's been there for a LONG time, so out of everyone he must know best.
We know that Jacob is thorough and neat and patient (for isntance from his rug that he was making for years and years). The wheel in a Lighthouse with the neat writing on it was much more him than the scribbling on a cave-wall, that was the untidy writing of some impatient person.
MIB threw away the light stone. We've seen him kill people several times, hands on, so to speak. How would that ever be better than manipulating people?

the difference between all the names scratched onto the wall in a cave and the ones neatly written on the Wheel is HUGE...it stands to reason they are probably not written by the same person.

it's hard to write neatly when you're made of smoke :biggrin:

We'll just have to agree to disagree...no matter what his intentions (and you know what they say about good intentions), I can't believe anyone who manipulated people's lives just to prove a point is a good person.
Same here Secoura. Using human lives as a means to an end is inexcusable, no matter then reason. If its to save humanity, why the games? Its because he probably has selfish motivations.

And yet Jacob's candidates are killers (Sawyer, Sayid).

How many people have died because Jacob brought them to the island? Sorry, in my books Jacob IS a killer.


And yet, Sayid and Sawyer are both on their way to being claimed by the MiB because they couldn't transcend their pasts.

I am pretty sure that the lighthouse was Jacob's device. Another clue: Jacob telling Hurley to tell Jack "You have what it takes". This was meant to give Jack some self-confidence and Jacob knew of Christian's influence and he knew that Christian regularly told Jack: "You don't have what it takes". How did Jacob know? He cannot read the minds of people for all we know. He has to get to know that by watching. At the 2009 Comic con, TPMB told the audience that Jacob never appeared in a different form on the show, so he was not Christian. The only other solution is that Jacob spoke to dead Christian in dead-land.
This "time-travelling" mirror seems to confirm Jacob's unusual sense of temporal rules that allow him to be at the right time and the right place to change things in his way..... That gives me the idea..... A lighthouse is meant to guide the way. Maybe the reflections show the right time and place for Jacob to influence people to get to the island? That would be correct for Sawyer and Jin and Sun, but sadly, Jacob did not visit Jack at his house. However, he DID visit him when he was with his father, and Jacob told Jack "sometimes they need a little push", as if to reconcile Jack and his father.

Re: bad and good, hmm I guess my list strongly implies that one side is good and one side is bad. I added "magic" to the caves, because I didn't want to give the impression that the Smoke Monster's side is all bad. Religion is a constructive element in many people's lives and science can be abused for evil things, too... but well, in our time and age the roles seem clear.

Hey, Mods get rid of this. That is a pretty big spoiler IMO. And I'm not too happy I saw it. This has not appeared on the show and I had no idea. Kills a lot of possibilities. Ambergris, you're on my list.

Same here Secoura. Using human lives as a means to an end is inexcusable, no matter then reason. If its to save humanity, why the games? Its because he probably has selfish motivations.


I think things have gotten too complex and I don't think accidentally. From what I've read around the blogosphere - no one would disagree with the fact that MiB/Smokey appears to be bad. All the killing and judging, etc. If he is indeed bad then how could you have 2 opposing sides unless the other one - Jacob - is good? How can one be bad and the other still not be good? Why would MiB tell him he wanted to kill him on the beach in The Incident if they were playing on the same team? Why would Richard - who knew Jacob well enough to know that he was made immortal by him - be absolutely terrified of MiB if he wasn't all that different than Jacob? Why all the black/white, dark/light symbolism in the show?

In watching the epi again, Jacob gives Hurley his reasons. Hurley's all pissed that Jacob didn't tell him the plan from the get-go and Jacob responds, "I couldn't risk you not leaving the temple?" Hurley presses further and says they could have avoided the whole mirror smashing incident with a little more info. Jacob says sometimes its as easy as getting in a cab and telling someone what to do and other times you have to wait until they see it for themselves. Jack has a reason he's back on the island and he needs to find it on his own. Jacob knew this and gave him yet another small "push" towards finding it. One man's manipulation is another's

Is it really any different than if you're a believer in a higher being or god? Being guided towards certain things and away from others doesn't mean we're being messed with - though it may at times when the crap hits the fan. But I think in this case with Jack - it only proves further that Jacob is the good one. He's shown him something and made him realize other things and "pushed" him into a certain situation because of the purpose that's awaiting Jack. He hasn't been forceful with Jack or restricted his ability to choose - though Jacob probably knows what he'll do in the end, it is still Jack's choice.

Let's slow it down again - Jack has learned now that Jacob was watching him since he was very young. But for all those years he apparently never knew Jacob was there. Maybe now as he stares out across the ocean and reflects upon all the twist and turns his life has taken, he can look back and see the influence or watching of Jacob. My prediction is he'll realize he hasn't been messed with at all and its at those times in his life when he needed a little "push" when Jacob showed up. MiB spins the same scenario to Sawyer as being manipulative and calls those moments ones of vulnerability - further proving the theory MiB is evil. Let Jacob's actions speak for themselves - he was around to comfort a distraught Sawyer, bless the newlywed Kwons, console Juliet, save Kate from the cops, and provide Jack with some all too necessary blood sugar in the form of an Apollo bar. I still don't see where this guy comes off as evil or even close.

Hey, Mods get rid of this. That is a pretty big spoiler IMO. And I'm not too happy I saw it. This has not appeared on the show and I had no idea. Kills a lot of possibilities. Ambergris, you're on my list.

Yet you have got the Alvar Hanso picture of a Lost ARG as your avatar.... I apologize but if you go by these standards the mods have to censor every mention of Taweret or Yemi as the Smoke Monster and every mention of the podcasts, the comic cons and the ARGs including the Hanso backstory and the Valenzetti equation. I think that whatever Darlton say at official events is official.

the difference between all the names scratched onto the wall in a cave and the ones neatly written on the Wheel is HUGE...it stands to reason they are probably not written by the same person.

ITA! It had to have been Jacob using the lighthouse. It even makes more sense if you consider the stone with the Shen Ring symbol, meaning eternity, as the secret entry that leads to the Lighthouse.

No we see this picture in the Dharma orientation video. Read the rules about spoilers. Some people don't want to know every little detail in the podcasts and in comic-con. Why? Because they give spoilers. In Comic-Con, I heard they ruined the parallel realities reveal essentially.

I loved having the surprise of the first episode. Some people like to be spoiled. But thats why there are spoiler forums. Tagging this which is just talking about what you revealed.

We still don't know if Jacob or MIB is bad, but we have seen a ton of apparitions, people speaking through dead people, two different Christians. I havent heard it mentioned once this thing you said about the podcast, but it limits the story possibilities big time and makes it much more likely that MIB is the evil one, or at least the most manipulative one. If it isn't a big deal, why haven't I seen it mentioned any where else. While it's likely it has been mentioned, the point is, its not common knowledge like Yemi/Twareet/some of the Hanso backstory, please be more carefu

I'm still rolling that we were shown this obvious allusion to a means of "looking down through the corridors of time" AND then it got smashed to pieces by Jack. That nod to Desinty vs Free Will has got to be up there as one of the classic moments for LOST. :rotflmao2:

In the eternal match between Good and Evil, each side has to be somewhat manipulative to prevent you from going towards the other.

This idea is probably for something like stellaknows' book thread, but is it possible that Jacob's lighthouse didn't exist until Hurley wrote about it? Maybe the door was jammed because Hurley smudged his arm. If "real" manifestations can be created by these entities, maybe they can create entire places by the power of thought.

Jacob is manipulative. Geez people, have you read the Bible? Do you know all the stuff that God did to people to test them, push them etc? Would you say that God is bad?

That would depend on if the person you asked was a follower of that God or not. I'm guessing the people that don't believe in the God of the Bible have a different opinion.

Jacob is not necessarily good, but he is better than the alternative. Richard seems to think so and he's been there for a LONG time, so out of everyone he must know best.

Sounds like chosing between the lesser of two evils...and a lesser evil does not equal good.

We know that Jacob is thorough and neat and patient (for isntance from his rug that he was making for years and years). The wheel in a Lighthouse with the neat writing on it was much more him than the scribbling on a cave-wall, that was the untidy writing of some impatient person.

Serial killers are neat and patient, and doctors have messy handwriting. That doesn't really prove much of anything.

MIB threw away the light stone. We've seen him kill people several times, hands on, so to speak. How would that ever be better than manipulating people?

Again, being the less 'evil' one is not even close to being 'good'.

I want to believe Jacob is the good guy.

(Spoiler for Dan Brown books...)

If this is anything like any Dan Brown novel I've ever read, the "good guy" always ends up being the bad guy, and I've been burned too many times to accept Jacob being good. I want him to be, though.

It isn't so much what he's done and what he hasn't done; his actions and words could be considered fuel to the fire of both arguments. It's just... he looks so creepy sometimes!! Why would they choose an actor to look creepy if they didn't want him to be creepy? Curse you, Darlton!!

Yet you have got the Alvar Hanso picture of a Lost ARG as your avatar.... I apologize but if you go by these standards the mods have to censor every mention of Taweret or Yemi as the Smoke Monster and every mention of the podcasts, the comic cons and the ARGs including the Hanso backstory and the Valenzetti equation. I think that whatever Darlton say at official events is official.

No we see this picture in the Dharma orientation video. Read the rules about spoilers. Some people don't want to know every little detail in the podcasts and in comic-con. Why? Because they give spoilers. In Comic-Con, I heard they ruined the parallel realities reveal essentially.

I loved having the surprise of the first episode. Some people like to be spoiled. But thats why there are spoiler forums. Tagging this which is just talking about what you revealed.

We still don't know if Jacob or MIB is bad, but we have seen a ton of apparitions, people speaking through dead people, two different Christians. I havent heard it mentioned once this thing you said about the podcast, but it limits the story possibilities big time and makes it much more likely that MIB is the evil one, or at least the most manipulative one. If it isn't a big deal, why haven't I seen it mentioned any where else. While it's likely it has been mentioned, the point is, its not common knowledge like Yemi/Twareet/some of the Hanso backstory, please be more carefu

Ambergris, Maculate is correct. A spoiler is anything that hasn't appeared on the show. If you know it hasn't appeared on the show it should be Spoiler Tagged outside the Spoiler Forums. Damon and Carlton have also said, things they say are not canon unless they appear on the show.

Maculate, the quickest way to get a mod here to fix the problem is to just report the post. It's really hard right after a new episode to read everything. Reporting a post isn't bad, it gets things fixed faster.

Back to the discussion.

Did anyone else think that when Hurley was pulling the chain and moving the levers, it sounded like Smokey's noise? Or am I looking for (hearing) clues where there are none?

I will miss this show so much this summer. And reading everyone's posts. It's been a great ride!

Serial killers are neat and patient, and doctors have messy handwriting. That doesn't really prove much of anything.



Great point. I agree with you completely. Just because the other guy is " bad" does NOT make you good. It just makes you appear that way until people realize you are just the lesser of 2 evils. These 2 men have their own means to get to the end, neither being good. Did Jacob ever kill anyone? I dont know. I can say that he manipulated many people into coming to the island, ultimately to their demise. Sometimes the people who were bystanders and didnt commit the murder go to jail too. They are just as guilty, because they could have prevented or stopped it. Lets face it, Jacob is not a "good" guy

I'm going to say this about MiB and Jacob, which probably echoes what some have said already: Either, or both, can be seen as bad but one has to think that both see themselves as good. An overused example might be Adolph Hitler (oh great, bring up his name... way to darken the mood, you dork!). Hitler probably didn't think he was evil, he probably thought what he was doing was right. I don't think he was cackling and twirling a corner of his mustache (which would be difficult to do with that hair-smudge he had under his nose). He probably thought he was doing good. MiB and Jacob both think themselves as being right, as being good or, at least, don't think of themselves as bad. The outsiders, those who are not either of them, ascribe the "good" or "bad" label themselves. This includes us, the audience.

Did anyone else think that when Hurley was pulling the chain and moving the levers, it sounded like Smokey's noise? Or am I looking for (hearing) clues where there are none?


after a re-watch i have to agree..this was the closest to the sounds of 'smokie' we have seen by far...the clicking sound of the sprockets on the wheel really nails it. makes me wonder if smokie is a way for jacob to 'remote view' among other things he does.

He probably thought he was doing good. MiB and Jacob both think themselves as being right, as being good or, at least, don't think of themselves as bad.


"we're the good guys"

As Frank Lapidus said...its usually the bad guys that say that. I see where youre coming from, they BELIEVE they are doing it for the right reason so they wont back down ...