to a TV Show with writers&creators that assured me everything was happening for a reason; that they had a plan! and when the time was right that they would share it with us, the viewers.

That's what I thought/interpreted when I heard Richards "speech" in the black rock. :D


(but no, I love the show)

to a TV Show with writers&creators that assured me everything was happening for a reason; that they had a plan! and when the time was right that they would share it with us, the viewers.

That's what I thought/interpreted when I heard Richards "speech" in the black rock. :D


(but no, I love the show)


hehe, yup!

believe me, I totally appreciate how some characters feelings on the show are mirroring some of the viewers feelings this final season.

It's great because it lets me totally empathize with the characters.

I've mentioned many a time how much I feel like Locke (and now Richard and Ben). Devoting myself blindly to the show for so long, believing there was a purpose, only to feel mislead and let down.

Hopefully, the characters on the show will learn that there was indeed a meaning to it all, and because of that, we viewers in turn will also learn that our belief was not for nothing.

whether or not TPTB are doing that on purpose... I dunno
I sort of hope not, it would be kind of cruel

Good thread! lol

whether or not TPTB are doing that on purpose... I dunno
I sort of hope not, it would be kind of cruel

I think they do that on purpose but i don't think it's cruel at all...
I think it's about opening our eyes!
I think it may be their way of saying that we tend to believe in miracles, in dreams and the answer is not there...happiness is not coming from that...happiness is coming from knowledge and accepting things the way they are....stop believing you're going to be a rock star or you have a great destiny, stop following a leader without even knowing why...and start believing in yourself, in a life who seems smaller but who is real!! Stop acting like a puppet and find yourself! lol

So very true that. If that line from Richard was put in to show a connection to what the audience are feeling then I think TPTB will give us something great in the end. They haven't disappointed me so far!

It's great because it lets me totally empathize with the characters.

I've mentioned many a time how much I feel like Locke (and now Richard and Ben). Devoting myself blindly to the show for so long, believing there was a purpose, only to feel mislead and let down.

Absolutely! It's really a way to connect with the characters. Maybe this was the big plan of TPTB. A plan to let people take a leap of faith and feel with the characters who do the same, with no resolution in the end :D ;)

So very true that. If that line from Richard was put in to show a connection to what the audience are feeling then I think TPTB will give us something great in the end.
Yeah, I like to believe that also

Try to believe me when I say I have devoted hundreds of hours studying screencaps, listening to whispers, and researching every book title on the show. I've gone so far as to approach some of my old professors in math, asking them if they'd ever watched LOST and what did they think the Valenzetti
Equation might imply (as if). I used to be a Physics Major and I went to my old profs and they all watch LOST, they said that students asked them about the Island all the time.
They have theories, but no answers.

So, NO, you are not alone. It could have been worse. You could have been brewing meth in your bathtub. See? Some obsessions are harmless and in fact, cause us to read a ton of books we might have not read. Trust me when I say that I still have questions (the Dharma Door) , many, many questions.
I have to relax and hope. Geez Louise, really important questions were answered in this Dr. Linus episode!

Try to believe me when I say I have devoted hundreds of hours studying screencaps, listening to whispers, and researching every book title on the show. I've gone so far as to approach some of my old professors in math, asking them if they'd ever watched LOST and what did they think the Valenzetti
Equation might imply (as if). I used to be a Physics Major and I went to my old profs and they all watch LOST, they said that students asked them about the Island all the time.
They have theories, but no answers.

[...] Some obsessions are harmless and in fact, cause us to read a ton of books we might have not read. Trust me when I say that I still have questions (the Dharma Door) , many, many questions.
I have to relax and hope.

And hasn't all this research been fun? Haven't we enjoyed being stimulated to read more books, thinking about theories and possibilities, creating our unique perspective about the island, the characters & their stories, the mythology?

Personally I had a lot of fun, and am still enjoying the show. I have my theories, my perspective and everything, and of course I don't expect the creators of LOST to humour my views or give me the answers I want. I respect their take on the story and their profession. I've decided to suspend judgment until the show is over. But even if LOST ends in some way I don't like, or did not expect, or leaves me further speculating about some aspects of the whole story, I will not consider the time & energy I dedicated to LOST a waste.


Cheers
Rick

to a TV Show with writers&creators that assured me everything was happening for a reason; that they had a plan! and when the time was right that they would share it with us, the viewers.

That's what I thought/interpreted when I heard Richards "speech" in the black rock. :D


(but no, I love the show)


Wow! I would have never picked up on that! Bravo.

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

But I also think that what we are seeing now is not the result of some genius plan the creators had to make us realize a grand message. It's simple the result of changing circumstances in the past 5+ years. Of things happening that we have no control over. Of trial and error. Destiny, the Universe, coincidence... Call it what you will.

I keep going back to an interview Damon did after the S3 finale where he stated that back in season 1 he and JJ thought Lost would be a cult show with very few viewers that would get canceled, for lack of ratings, after 12 episodes. So, he and JJ decided that if they were going to do a show that was only going to last 12 hours, they would make the best 12 hours of television, ever.

So, they set out to build a story that could be told in 12 episodes. Let's call this the original plan. Then the premiere happened, and the show was an unexpected, overwhelming success, with ratings that made the network execs drool.

First major change to the original plan. The network said "you have to keep writing this show for as long as it is successful". Big problem. They had to find ways to extend the story, and to delay the big reveals that would give away the central mystery and conflict of the show. If they revealed it too soon, they would make the same mistake Twin Peaks made (a result of network pressure, BTW), when it revealed who had killed Laura Palmer, and they would lose their audience really fast. If they delayed it too much, the main story would stall and the audience would get antsy about getting answers to the main questions (why these people? why are they there? what is their destiny?).

The tricky thing was, how much do you extend the story if you don't know when you're going to end it? when do you reveal a big answers if you don't know how much time will pass before you can resolve the story? That's quite the Catch-22. But since the network owns the show, they had to comply. So, they started creating the Dharma mythology, and kept introducing mysteries to keep the audience interested in shiny, "cool", things because they didn't want to give away the major answers.

These new mysteries fascinated audiences, who got into them with a passion that I'm sure was unexpected by the creators. Sure, they wanted us to wonder about Dharma, but they didn't expect that people would come up with incredibly intricate theories about the show based on production errors (Swan hatch items being slightly different in two different episodes, which they confirmed were errors, not intentional). So, they unwittingly created a non-smoke monster. They just didn't know how big of a monster it would turn out to be.

In season 2 he ratings dropped, and continued to drop throughout season 3. This is natural with any show until it finds an audience and stabilizes. Most shows start low, build up an audience over the first year, drop a little bit and then remain stable for a while. After a few seasons, most shows start losing viewers and at a certain point, the network pulls the plug. With Lost, the drop in ratings was a bit much, and it was probably making the execs nervous, because Lost is one of the most expensive shows to produce out there (bad wigs and all).

According to TV experts, the drop in ratings was due to several factors (in no particular order):

The story was heavily serialized; if you missed one episode, you'd probably miss something important that would hinder your understanding of future episodes
The story had a very complicated mythology; most average viewers, who don't obsess on internet forums, don't want to do much thinking when it comes to TV, they just want to be entertained
The network kept changing the schedule and there were several breaks during the same season, when the show would go off the air for a few weeks before the season was over. This makes it hard for the show to build an audience.
The story stalled, in terms of the main questions established in S1. Charlie's "where are we?" is still unanswered, 5+ seasons later. Why these people? What is their mission? what is their destiny? None of that was forthcoming, and the fact that the creators were running out of ideas to extend the story began show. So we got flashbacks that didn't tell us new things about the characters, many FBs in S2 were situations where our characters just continued to show the same demons and redemptive qualities we had seen in S1 (Sayid was a torturer, Kate runs, Sawyer is a conman, etc.)
At this point, accusations that they were "making it up as they go along" were widespread on the internet, the general audience, and even the main entertainment media outlets voiced these viewers' concern.

The producers took this opportunity to negotiate with the network an end date. No one knows the particulars of that negotiation, but, if I were a betting woman, I'd say the creators wanted to end it in less hours than the network wanted and that the result they agreed on, was a compromise somewhere in the middle.

So, at the end of S3 we knew we only had 3 more seasons of Lost of roughly 16 episodes each. The audience was happy that the show would now turn a new leaf and start moving really fast toward a great resolution, and the viewers trusted that the creators indeed had a plan.

But it wasn't that simple, you see. Because they still had to delay the MAJOR answers. If we had had that Jacob/MIB conversation at the beginning of S4, what else could they invest the rest of the time in? The fact is that even with an end date, they couldn't reveal the main answers until the final season, so, they had two season to stall.

They then started to do two things: set up the pieces to make it possible for MIB to take over Locke's shape, find his loophole and kill Jacob; explain some of the lesser mysteries that had nothing to do with the main questions (such as all the Dharma mythology). They knew they would have to stall some more, so, they had to come up with a "cool" way to do it. Enter "getting off the island so they would have to go back to the island" plot and time traveling.

The main conflict of this show is the battle between Jacob and MIB, and the reason the Losties are on the island is because they play a part in that battle. That's it. Everything else is optional. For some it's the icing on the cake because they find the optional stuff very interesting; for others, it's terrible because after 5 years we still don't know why the Losties were chosen or what their purpose is, and the reason why there's a battle between Jacob and MIB is fuzzy.

Let's make a few changes to the stories we saw in S1:

Introduce Ben and the Others in episode 6
Jacob/MIB conversation about finding a loophole in episode 12
Ben kills Locke in episode 13
Locke "resurrects" in episode 14
Ben kills Jacob in episode 18, when it is revealed that resurrected Locke = MIB = Smokey
Episodes 19-22 explain why Jacob/MIB are in conflict and the characters progressively discover why they have to play a part in the final conflict (I'm guessing they will have to somehow save the world)
Episodes 23-24: Final battle and story resolution.
If you were a regular viewer, and you only saw the story I outlined above in 24 episodes, you'd know exactly what Lost was about, and you'd understand the main story. We don't need Dharma, the pregnancy issue, the polar bears, time traveling, the Hurley bird, Annie, Libby, or an alternate/parallel reality to tell this story.

But if we told it that way, we'd be done in a year, not 6. The other problem is that a lot of people fell in love with the "optional" plots and therefore they want an explanation for everything they found intriguing at one time or another. These "optional" plots don't affect the outcome of the main story, so, the creators don't really have mind-blowing explanations for them. What was Dharma? Just another group of people brought to the island, the elaborate theories about them and their impact in the main plot are out the window now. This obviously frustrates some people, but, to the creators, that's a side mystery.

They also didn't expect people would fall so much in love with plots they set up "just in case we don't get the end date we want and have to extend the show even more" like Libby and Annie. So, they can use them, or not use them, but the "audience monster" fell in love with them and they want more, more, more.

Right now, they still can't tell us why Jacob/MIB are fighting or what role the Losties play in that fight, because if they do, they wouldn't have any more story to tell for the rest of the season. And if they provide explanations for "optional" plots like Libby, Annie, the Hurley bird, etc., those stories wouldn't be satisfying, because they don't impact the outcome of the main story (what is the conflict between Jacob/MIB? why the Losties? what is the Losties' role in the Jacob/MIB conflict?).

So, they are a bit stuck.

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.

And hasn't all this research been fun? Haven't we enjoyed being stimulated to read more books, thinking about theories and possibilities, creating our unique perspective about the island, the characters & their stories, the mythology?

Personally I had a lot of fun, and am still enjoying the show. I have my theories, my perspective and everything, and of course I don't expect the creators of LOST to humour my views or give me the answers I want. I respect their take on the story and their profession. I've decided to suspend judgment until the show is over. But even if LOST ends in some way I don't like, or did not expect, or leaves me further speculating about some aspects of the whole story, I will not consider the time & energy I dedicated to LOST a waste.


Cheers
Rick

Same for me!;)

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

[...]

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.
Wow. That's not even a post anymore, that's close to an essay! Nice job!

Sorry I shortened it in my quote for the sake of briefness.

But you make a good argument there. I remember that Damon & Carlton even admitted in a podcast in S2 that the whole storyline with Ben being the leader of the others wasn't planned at all. First, they introduced Henry Gale and since he got such good reception they extended his story and thought up the character of Ben Linus.

But I'm ok with that. I believe a series has to evolve in an organic way to be really good. You can't forsee everything from the start and know what will work/be good and what not. Some of it you can, but not everything.

Nevertheless, I am faithful that since the time they got the 'six seasons' deal, they thought up a cool and meaningful conclusion to the whole series.

And hasn't all this research been fun? Haven't we enjoyed being stimulated to read more books, thinking about theories and possibilities, creating our unique perspective about the island, the characters & their stories, the mythology?

Personally I had a lot of fun, and am still enjoying the show. I have my theories, my perspective and everything, and of course I don't expect the creators of LOST to humour my views or give me the answers I want. I respect their take on the story and their profession. I've decided to suspend judgment until the show is over. But even if LOST ends in some way I don't like, or did not expect, or leaves me further speculating about some aspects of the whole story, I will not consider the time & energy I dedicated to LOST a waste.


Cheers
Rick


Oh, my, yes! It's been delirious fun! Did I indicate otherwise? I love LOST!

In the past, I've been interested in Star Trek, Star Trek TNG, Northern Exposure, M*A*S*H (the series)...

I've never been exposed to as interesting a conundrum as LOST.
The fact that even elderly people are badgering me to post questions...I suppose a nursing home of WWII who are crazy with questions speaks loudly to the show, eh?

Don't get me wrong. It's not just me that sits around all day discussing LOST, and I'm sorry if the producers and writers didn't expect this sort of response.

Obviously they created something wonderful and fantastic that appealed to the human imagination...after all, who wouldn't like their lives simplified on a beautiful Island-of-power? Well, maybe not, but like any average mystery novel, they've given us all sorts of clues,...we need to know not just whodunit but howdunit and whydunit.

Isn't this a normal, human reaction to a truly great puzzle?

I'm very happy with the way things are proceeding.
100%
I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.....

. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.


As was stated above, your essay was wonderful and made tons of good points; you express yourself wonderfully.

Wow, CrazyLatin007, that is a great synopsis. You really point out the disadvantage TV writers have in regards to how long the series they are writing for will last. If you were writing a book, you probably have a plan up front as to whether it is going to be a short story, novel, or multi-volume.

In the case of Lost, viewers enjoyed the concept, setting, and characters so much they wanted to spend time getting familiar with all the details of the island. So it was appropriate to have a longer story where more fleshing out took place.

Viewers should understand that regardless of the length of any story, the answers will be given at or near the end.

I'll save the censoring computer some time:

Gnome this gnoming gnome!

If they went to all the trouble to use CGI to create the "Hurley Bird", then gnoming gnomit, we ought to gnoming know why. We know that Hurley was told to go *back* to the Island, but what made him so special before that?

Gnoming Gnomishness! Obviously, we were shown images of our beloved Losties being touched by Jacob, but Hurley wasn't touched until AFTER all the gnoming gnome went down.

I'm trying to say that Hurley wasn't touched until after he came back. So what's up with him and the numbers?

Hey, I'm not alone! Basically this is how I think about the whole thing. I might not like the ending but it doesn't mean the show's been a waste of time for me. The roller coaster ride has been fun, as well as the "Finding Lost" books and the many intelligent, wacky and complaint-filled posts on this website.

I don't think it's the greatest show ever (Mystery Science Theater 3000, Cheers and Freaks & Geeks are shows I like better) but this has been a fun show with all of the "what the heck??" moments, the twists and turns, the revelations and the allusions, the characters and situations, and all the other stuff that's gone on. I haven't disliked one single episode of the show-- not even the Niki and Paulo episode. Were they all perfect? Gosh, no. I think the show's been fun, in general.

TPTB will do what they do and I'll have my opinion of it when it's done. I know, for sure, however this show ends, there will be those who don't like it.

I'm looking forward to the posts after May 23rd's finale.


And hasn't all this research been fun? Haven't we enjoyed being stimulated to read more books, thinking about theories and possibilities, creating our unique perspective about the island, the characters & their stories, the mythology?

Personally I had a lot of fun, and am still enjoying the show. I have my theories, my perspective and everything, and of course I don't expect the creators of LOST to humour my views or give me the answers I want. I respect their take on the story and their profession. I've decided to suspend judgment until the show is over. But even if LOST ends in some way I don't like, or did not expect, or leaves me further speculating about some aspects of the whole story, I will not consider the time & energy I dedicated to LOST a waste.


Cheers
Rick

Thanks for the nice comments about my post :redface:

hehe, yup!

believe me, I totally appreciate how some characters feelings on the show are mirroring some of the viewers feelings this final season.

It's great because it lets me totally empathize with the characters.

I've mentioned many a time how much I feel like Locke (and now Richard and Ben). Devoting myself blindly to the show for so long, believing there was a purpose, only to feel mislead and let down.

Hopefully, the characters on the show will learn that there was indeed a meaning to it all, and because of that, we viewers in turn will also learn that our belief was not for nothing.

whether or not TPTB are doing that on purpose... I dunno
I sort of hope not, it would be kind of cruel

Well, in reality, it's been more like 45 minutes a week for about a third of each year.

Dr. Linus was really good. I think it was, anyway.

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

But I also think that what we are seeing now is not the result of some genius plan the creators had to make us realize a grand message. It's simple the result of changing circumstances in the past 5+ years. Of things happening that we have no control over. Of trial and error. Destiny, the Universe, coincidence... Call it what you will.

[...]

So, they are a bit stuck.

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.


Standing ovation!

Really, thank you for this post. I've been meaning to write something along the very same lines, but I couldn't have explained it better.

Cheers!
Rick

Well, in reality, it's been more like 45 minutes a week for about a third of each year.
But you gotta count in all the forum posting and "researching" for the show ;)

The main conflict of this show is the battle between Jacob and MIB, and the reason the Losties are on the island is because they play a part in that battle. That's it. Everything else is optional. For some it's the icing on the cake because they find the optional stuff very interesting; for others, it's terrible because after 5 years we still don't know why the Losties were chosen or what their purpose is, and the reason why there's a battle between Jacob and MIB is fuzzy.



A great post. That pretty much sums it up. I wish I could write like that.:)

I devoted 4 years of my life to a company that just fired me in a very disrespectful manner.

Feeling kind of like Richard right now!

Hope Lost doesn't "fire" me too.

Sorry about that, beema. Although it may seem cliche, when a door closes, a window opens. I've experienced that several times.

Don't let your feelings right now blur your vision of new opportunities. Look at it as a chance to find something better.

Sorry about that, beema. Although it may seem cliche, when a door closes, a window opens. I've experienced that several times.

Don't let your feelings right now blur your vision of new opportunities. Look at it as a chance to find something better.

Thanks
Actually, I'm feeling that way right now. It's kind of a relief to me, I was growing complacent at that job, and was too afraid to quit (although I really wanted to sometimes). So it's probably a blessing in disguise. Mostly I'm upset at the way I was treated after working there for so long (especially since it was a really tiny, intimate company).

sorry to threadjack!

Sorry about that, beema. Although it may seem cliche, when a door closes, a window opens. I've experienced that several times.

Don't let your feelings right now blur your vision of new opportunities. Look at it as a chance to find something better.

I've been fired a few times. In hindsight it took me to new opportunities and allowed me to venture into new jobs and meet new people. And my old co-workers always missed me so that took a little of the sting out of the firing.

When I used to teach at our local college I always told my students that jobs were like pit-stops. You can stay somewhere for a while until a new and better opportunity comes along. It always works out in the end. But, for now, I know it can be tough.

Good luck finding new work. There are still opportunities out there.
I know something will turn up for you.

Keep us posted.

P. S. KittyThor says, "Wacka MeOw!"
Translation: "Something good is coming your way."

I devoted 4 years of my life to a company that just fired me in a very disrespectful manner.

Feeling kind of like Richard right now!
Sorry to hear that. That sucks! But like Hurley said something like: "chin up, things are going to work out" :)

I devoted 4 years of my life to a company that just fired me in a very disrespectful manner.

Feeling kind of like Richard right now!

Hope Lost doesn't "fire" me too.

Sorry to hear that beema. I know with the way you're feeling about Lost right now, losing your job just seems to be piling on, although losing your job at anytime sucks.

As CL says, "when a door closes, a window opens" is very true. I had a job that I really liked, and then got a new boss, and he was like a combination of Hitler and Napolean, fabricating stories about people he didn't like to get them fired. He tried it on me, but luckily I wasn't fired. However I did leave that job and it led directly to the job I have now which I absolutely love. Trust me, sometimes you do find that chocolate in a big 'ol pile of crap!:biggrin:

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

But I also think that what we are seeing now is not the result of some genius plan the creators had to make us realize a grand message. It's simple the result of changing circumstances in the past 5+ years. Of things happening that we have no control over. Of trial and error. Destiny, the Universe, coincidence... Call it what you will.

...............

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.

As many others have posted before me CL, great post as usual! You have a way of putting everything in perspective, it's a shame I don't see you posting as much as you used to because I enjoy reading your posts.:smile:

Trust me, sometimes you do find that chocolate in a big 'ol pile of crap!:biggrin:


LOL
never heard that one before, I'll have to use it :laugh:

thanks for the kind words guys

As many others have posted before me CL, great post as usual! You have a way of putting everything in perspective, it's a shame I don't see you posting as much as you used to because I enjoy reading your posts.:smile:

I'm usually in the spoiler section, and sometimes, I read a thread and I know what's coming and feel it's unfair to post, you know?

Also, I've been swamped lately with work stuff and I haven't had much time to do the really important things like discussing Lost :biggrin:. But I'm around, you can always PM if you want.

I'm usually in the spoiler section, and sometimes, I read a thread and I know what's coming and feel it's unfair to post, you know?
I feel honored you posted in my thread! :smile: :D

to a TV Show with writers&creators that assured me everything was happening for a reason; that they had a plan! and when the time was right that they would share it with us, the viewers.

That's what I thought/interpreted when I heard Richards "speech" in the black rock. :D


(but no, I love the show)


Abso-freaking-lutely love this!! OMG so true.

Love the OP hans99; and CrazyLatin that was some heck of an essay there! I'll add to the chorus of appreciation for that. Very much my feelings of the show as well; better expressed that I could have done.You actually see this in a great deal of serialized fiction. I mean, it's clear that lost learned from Dickens with his multiple cliffhangers and withholding of answers. He never gave the audience an excuse to stop reading. It's really smart, actually!

It's all going to be over very soon, and when that time comes we will all want a little bit more information about whatever particular story or sub-story or piece of information we have each as viewers taken a special interest in over the past six years, but we won't be allowed to have it. The magic of this show, just as was the case with Twin Peaks (for example), is that it will keep us theorising long after the curtain call. I can't wait. :)

I The magic of this show, just as was the case with Twin Peaks (for example)haven't watched anything of Twin Peaks, yet. but that show is next "on my list" ;)

maybe after lost is done and I have re-watched all episodes

If you were a regular viewer, and you only saw the story I outlined above in 24 episodes, you'd know exactly what Lost was about, and you'd understand the main story. We don't need Dharma, the pregnancy issue, the polar bears, time traveling, the Hurley bird, Annie, Libby, or an alternate/parallel reality to tell this story.

The things that have driven my interest in history, philosophy, religion, etc. have always been the oddball stories; the Rasputins being poisoned, bludgeoned, and slid under the ice; the people in Romania who have wedding ceremonies for their dead; and every story about a dog left behind when a family moves away wandering miles to be reunited with his family. Yeah, you can give it too me in a nutshell but then it's like medicine. I want all the back stories (except for Nikki and Paulo). Then again, I believe the producers of the show have earned the right to tell it however they see it. That was the lesson for me at the end of the Sopranos. They don't have to explain. It's their show, allright?

haven't watched anything of Twin Peaks, yet. but that show is next "on my list" ;)
I intend to do the same. I've heard a lot of good things about that show. The Wire is another one that I need to start on.

I mentioned Dickens earlier - The Wire is modern day Dickensian storytellings, laying out society's ills for all to see. It's not my favourite show ever - that's Six Feet Under - but is the best television show I've ever seen.

Check Eraserhead out as well. Freaky stuff. Lynch's student movie. Odd to say the least.

haven't watched anything of Twin Peaks, yet. but that show is next "on my list" ;)

maybe after lost is done and I have re-watched all episodes

Do take the time to watch TP. You'll find it has many themes in common with Lost, and I'd be surprised if you didn't enjoy it.

OMG, crazy latin, what a piece of work! You nailed it to the wall, as usual. That was so great I have read it like eight times. Thank you.

Let's make a few changes to the stories we saw in S1:

Introduce Ben and the Others in episode 6
Jacob/MIB conversation about finding a loophole in episode 12
Ben kills Locke in episode 13
Locke "resurrects" in episode 14
Ben kills Jacob in episode 18, when it is revealed that resurrected Locke = MIB = Smokey
Episodes 19-22 explain why Jacob/MIB are in conflict and the characters progressively discover why they have to play a part in the final conflict (I'm guessing they will have to somehow save the world)
Episodes 23-24: Final battle and story resolution.

...

As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.

When I re-imagine Lost in my mind, that's how it plays out. Only in three seasons. With 12 episodes per season. On cable such as AMC or USA network. (Those guys don't allow filler episodes.)

And there's a Vincent centric episode.

P. S. That's just about my favorite post on the entire forum. Period. Well said. "Meow WaCka!" (High Five.) And he doesn't give those out very often. Even I've never gotten one.

You guys are embarrassing me!

CL, you're brilliant! Take the compliments - they look good on you!

Ok, Dany. Thank you!

Guys, you heard the lady! So stop it now!

:biggrin: ;)

Go Crazylatin! Go Crazylatin! Go Crazylatin!!!!!:biggrin:

CL007, I can tell you exactly why I like your post. It's because in your version of Lost, there is no filler, no fluff with no nonsense story telling.

Granted, many of the sub-plots and mysterious happenings would fall by the wayside and those are very interesting, but we would be left with a mean, lean story that would one could only describe as truly "action packed and adventure filled."

I have no doubt that your version is very close to the original story line. Everything else from all the hatch happenings, to the freighter folks to even leaving the Island and then coming back was added to stretch the story over several seasons just to please the higher-ups in the ABC carpeted offices.

I'm willing to flesh out your version (without the filler parts) if anyone else is. Of course, that would come very close to fan fiction, but we could always call it a "thought experiment." I'm game. Anyone else?

So very true that. If that line from Richard was put in to show a connection to what the audience are feeling then I think TPTB will give us something great in the end. They haven't disappointed me so far!

I agree! However, unlike Richard, I have not devoted years to the show. It has been fun and a wonderful adventure. I will not be crushed, however, if the show would end tomorrow. I'd just make my own ending! :71: The best part about the show has been sharing the adventure will all of you! Thanks! :hug:

Sounds like a cool project, how do you want to go about it? Should we wait until the series ends so that we can deal with the withdrawal?

When I re-imagine Lost in my mind, that's how it plays out. Only in three seasons. With 12 episodes per season. On cable such as AMC or USA network. (Those guys don't allow filler episodes.)

And there's a Vincent centric episode.

P. S. That's just about my favorite post on the entire forum. Period. Well said. "Meow WaCka!" (High Five.) And he doesn't give those out very often. Even I've never gotten one.

CL: VERY GOOD! Love the Vincent centric episode! You Rock PT!

Sounds like a cool project, how do you want to go about it? Should we wait until the series ends so that we can deal with the withdrawal?

I say we wait until the series comes to an end. That way we will have a complete picture of what we saw. Who knows, maybe what we thought was filler really wasn't.

And I still want a Vincent centric episode. I know exactly how it could play out. I'll share after the show ends.

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, just the first page, but I kinda feel that Lost is similar to life, in that the journey is more important than the destination. The point of it is to see how these characters change and develop when new (and sometimes strange) obstacles are presented to them, in the same way that life for us is the process of changing and overcoming difficulties. As much as I want to know how it all ends, I am satisfied with everything that the writers, actors, everyone who worked on the show have given us. Hope you all enjoyed the journey as much as I did. :)

Great post, CrazyL. Well written and thought out. I understand your point regarding side stories and not putting too much weight in them, however, TPTB have gone to pretty extreme measures introducing elements into the story that did drive us LOST nuts...well, nuts. Take for example, the introduction of Miles when he went all Ghost Busters upstairs in that lady's house. They purposefully showed a wall with pictures as he went up the stairs. Then, when he came down the stairs the camera showed us the wall...differently. Different pictures, a different look. It had changed. That incident spurred a lot of discussion and theorizing...it was great. Now, with the Alt-Timeline in play, we can attribute it to the new timeline...even if we don't get a scene explicitly explaining it.

On the other hand, there are been other events that seem intentional that I fear will not be answered. For example, Desmond told Charlie that he saw Claire and Aaron getting on the rescue helicopter if Charlie disabled the signal jammer in the Looking Glass. This drove Charlie to follow through and it did end with a rescue helicopter...just no Claire on-board. Charlie's death, a pretty big plot point, is meaningless if this 'vision' isn't revisited. Did Desmond lie? Did he see a different future? I suppose it could still be answered but it is a nagging loose end that I really wish they would address.

I feel the same as the OP...I've watched the show since day one and have LOVED it. But I really hope they bring a lot of the loose ends together. I don't mind the unimportant ones left for debate and imagination...but the specific elements they've introduced that have been part of the mystique of the show should be explained or at least alluded to for some answers.

Optional plot points? You mean the only plot points before the season 5 finale or if you stretch it maybe you could reason that it started at season 5. But talking yourself out of holding the writers responsible for an unsatisfying series is like convincing yourself to swallow a big load of BS.

Optional plot points is not a part of writing. Side stories are meant to be wrapped up just like anything else. Nothing optional about it. If you wrote a story and introduced situations that went on for several chapters (episodes) your editor would make you resolve it or cut it out completely. There is no excuse and after the show when the average person outside of the dedicated fanbase calls the writers out on this they'll be right.

Before you respond by saying they'll tie it up in the end, go read some of their interviews about how they aren't going to tie up things or they are already considering the mysteries answered. They specifically named the "fertility issue" as answered and something they are not revisiting.

I don't think they'll tie it up. I actually think they will leave a lot of loose ends.

What I'm saying is that I'm not going to get upset about it.

As for holding the writers responsible for anything, what's with the sense of entitlement? The writers don't owe us anything. They can write anything they want. We are free to like it or not, but this is their story and it's their choice to write it any which way they want. If it sucks for you, you have every right to express that.

All I'm saying is that, for me, personally, the only thing I care about is the main plot. I don't care about the pregnancy issue, or Desmond's vision, or Libby's backstory or what happened to Annie. All I want to know is why the Losties were chosen and what is it that they are meant to do on the island.

The rest of it, I can take it or leave it. I'm not going to be upset about something I can't control. And I'm not going to "demand" that Damon and Carlton give me answers. Like I said, it's their story, they have a right to do with it whatever they want, we choose whether we want to watch it or not.

Just because I feel that way, it doesn't mean that I like everything I see. If you read my first post here, you'll notice that I said some of the optional stuff has been contrived. They have done many things that I've found ridiculous (FDW, for instance) and I don't think they are brilliant geniuses and that we should worship the ground they walk on. I'm also not saying that they are perfect and will tie it all together. All I am saying is that I'm not going to be upset if they don't address something that doesn't pertain to the main story arc. I, personally, don't need them to go there.

They created all those plot points to extend the story, I'm recognizing that situation, and saying that if they don't resolve something that wasn't meant to be part of the main story (the 12 hour one), I'm not going to fret over it.

As for the fertility issue, it was very clear to me that Jughead caused it. I can live with that. They did answer it, if you don't like the answer, that's something else, but they did answer it.

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

But I also think that what we are seeing now is not the result of some genius plan the creators had to make us realize a grand message. It's simple the result of changing circumstances in the past 5+ years. Of things happening that we have no control over. Of trial and error. Destiny, the Universe, coincidence... Call it what you will.

........

So, they are a bit stuck.

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.


This was one of the greatest things i have read on this site. Thank you so much for this.
100%
I mentioned Dickens earlier - The Wire is modern day Dickensian storytellings, laying out society's ills for all to see. It's not my favourite show ever - that's Six Feet Under - but is the best television show I've ever seen.

Six Feet under is one of the greatest shows ever. Along with Lost, and The Shield.

I think the "we have a plan" was a true statement.

But I also think that what we are seeing now is not the result of some genius plan the creators had to make us realize a grand message. It's simple the result of changing circumstances in the past 5+ years. Of things happening that we have no control over. Of trial and error. Destiny, the Universe, coincidence... Call it what you will.

I keep going back to an interview Damon did after the S3 finale where he stated that back in season 1 he and JJ thought Lost would be a cult show with very few viewers that would get canceled, for lack of ratings, after 12 episodes. So, he and JJ decided that if they were going to do a show that was only going to last 12 hours, they would make the best 12 hours of television, ever.

So, they set out to build a story that could be told in 12 episodes. Let's call this the original plan. Then the premiere happened, and the show was an unexpected, overwhelming success, with ratings that made the network execs drool.

First major change to the original plan. The network said "you have to keep writing this show for as long as it is successful". Big problem. They had to find ways to extend the story, and to delay the big reveals that would give away the central mystery and conflict of the show. If they revealed it too soon, they would make the same mistake Twin Peaks made (a result of network pressure, BTW), when it revealed who had killed Laura Palmer, and they would lose their audience really fast. If they delayed it too much, the main story would stall and the audience would get antsy about getting answers to the main questions (why these people? why are they there? what is their destiny?).

The tricky thing was, how much do you extend the story if you don't know when you're going to end it? when do you reveal a big answers if you don't know how much time will pass before you can resolve the story? That's quite the Catch-22. But since the network owns the show, they had to comply. So, they started creating the Dharma mythology, and kept introducing mysteries to keep the audience interested in shiny, "cool", things because they didn't want to give away the major answers.

These new mysteries fascinated audiences, who got into them with a passion that I'm sure was unexpected by the creators. Sure, they wanted us to wonder about Dharma, but they didn't expect that people would come up with incredibly intricate theories about the show based on production errors (Swan hatch items being slightly different in two different episodes, which they confirmed were errors, not intentional). So, they unwittingly created a non-smoke monster. They just didn't know how big of a monster it would turn out to be.

In season 2 he ratings dropped, and continued to drop throughout season 3. This is natural with any show until it finds an audience and stabilizes. Most shows start low, build up an audience over the first year, drop a little bit and then remain stable for a while. After a few seasons, most shows start losing viewers and at a certain point, the network pulls the plug. With Lost, the drop in ratings was a bit much, and it was probably making the execs nervous, because Lost is one of the most expensive shows to produce out there (bad wigs and all).

According to TV experts, the drop in ratings was due to several factors (in no particular order):

The story was heavily serialized; if you missed one episode, you'd probably miss something important that would hinder your understanding of future episodes
The story had a very complicated mythology; most average viewers, who don't obsess on internet forums, don't want to do much thinking when it comes to TV, they just want to be entertained
The network kept changing the schedule and there were several breaks during the same season, when the show would go off the air for a few weeks before the season was over. This makes it hard for the show to build an audience.
The story stalled, in terms of the main questions established in S1. Charlie's "where are we?" is still unanswered, 5+ seasons later. Why these people? What is their mission? what is their destiny? None of that was forthcoming, and the fact that the creators were running out of ideas to extend the story began show. So we got flashbacks that didn't tell us new things about the characters, many FBs in S2 were situations where our characters just continued to show the same demons and redemptive qualities we had seen in S1 (Sayid was a torturer, Kate runs, Sawyer is a conman, etc.)
At this point, accusations that they were "making it up as they go along" were widespread on the internet, the general audience, and even the main entertainment media outlets voiced these viewers' concern.

The producers took this opportunity to negotiate with the network an end date. No one knows the particulars of that negotiation, but, if I were a betting woman, I'd say the creators wanted to end it in less hours than the network wanted and that the result they agreed on, was a compromise somewhere in the middle.

So, at the end of S3 we knew we only had 3 more seasons of Lost of roughly 16 episodes each. The audience was happy that the show would now turn a new leaf and start moving really fast toward a great resolution, and the viewers trusted that the creators indeed had a plan.

But it wasn't that simple, you see. Because they still had to delay the MAJOR answers. If we had had that Jacob/MIB conversation at the beginning of S4, what else could they invest the rest of the time in? The fact is that even with an end date, they couldn't reveal the main answers until the final season, so, they had two season to stall.

They then started to do two things: set up the pieces to make it possible for MIB to take over Locke's shape, find his loophole and kill Jacob; explain some of the lesser mysteries that had nothing to do with the main questions (such as all the Dharma mythology). They knew they would have to stall some more, so, they had to come up with a "cool" way to do it. Enter "getting off the island so they would have to go back to the island" plot and time traveling.

The main conflict of this show is the battle between Jacob and MIB, and the reason the Losties are on the island is because they play a part in that battle. That's it. Everything else is optional. For some it's the icing on the cake because they find the optional stuff very interesting; for others, it's terrible because after 5 years we still don't know why the Losties were chosen or what their purpose is, and the reason why there's a battle between Jacob and MIB is fuzzy.

Let's make a few changes to the stories we saw in S1:

Introduce Ben and the Others in episode 6
Jacob/MIB conversation about finding a loophole in episode 12
Ben kills Locke in episode 13
Locke "resurrects" in episode 14
Ben kills Jacob in episode 18, when it is revealed that resurrected Locke = MIB = Smokey
Episodes 19-22 explain why Jacob/MIB are in conflict and the characters progressively discover why they have to play a part in the final conflict (I'm guessing they will have to somehow save the world)
Episodes 23-24: Final battle and story resolution.
If you were a regular viewer, and you only saw the story I outlined above in 24 episodes, you'd know exactly what Lost was about, and you'd understand the main story. We don't need Dharma, the pregnancy issue, the polar bears, time traveling, the Hurley bird, Annie, Libby, or an alternate/parallel reality to tell this story.

But if we told it that way, we'd be done in a year, not 6. The other problem is that a lot of people fell in love with the "optional" plots and therefore they want an explanation for everything they found intriguing at one time or another. These "optional" plots don't affect the outcome of the main story, so, the creators don't really have mind-blowing explanations for them. What was Dharma? Just another group of people brought to the island, the elaborate theories about them and their impact in the main plot are out the window now. This obviously frustrates some people, but, to the creators, that's a side mystery.

They also didn't expect people would fall so much in love with plots they set up "just in case we don't get the end date we want and have to extend the show even more" like Libby and Annie. So, they can use them, or not use them, but the "audience monster" fell in love with them and they want more, more, more.

Right now, they still can't tell us why Jacob/MIB are fighting or what role the Losties play in that fight, because if they do, they wouldn't have any more story to tell for the rest of the season. And if they provide explanations for "optional" plots like Libby, Annie, the Hurley bird, etc., those stories wouldn't be satisfying, because they don't impact the outcome of the main story (what is the conflict between Jacob/MIB? why the Losties? what is the Losties' role in the Jacob/MIB conflict?).

So, they are a bit stuck.

I, personally just care about the Losties destiny, as for the rest of it, some things have been icing on the cake, some things have been ridiculous contrivances and plot delays. It used to bother me a lot more before, but I have come to accept that this is the way of the business, and I absolutely love Jack and what they have done with his story, so, that keeps me watching and entertained. As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.

Best post ever.

..

As for holding the writers responsible for anything, what's with the sense of entitlement? The writers don't owe us anything. ..

Thanks for saying this... again... love it! You get the chocolate bunny award! I was actually thinking LOST would make a great book. The writers can take out all the extra fluff and just keep the good stuff! But, that would probably add another five years to the project and I'm sure Darlton is ready to move on.

All I'm saying is that, for me, personally, the only thing I care about is the main plot. I don't care about the pregnancy issue, or Desmond's vision, or Libby's backstory or what happened to Annie. All I want to know is why the Losties were chosen and what is it that they are meant to do on the island.
...
If you read my first post here, you'll notice that I said some of the optional stuff has been contrived. They have done many things that I've found ridiculous



I agree completely. Although I stuck with the show, my daughter, who began the journey with me quit after S2 because she was not interested in the contrived stories that were beginning to emerge. She wanted the answers to the S1 questions. She reminds me of why we loved this show in the first place. And if all they are able to answer are those original 'big' mysteries, that is all that really matters to me as well.


I keep going back to an interview Damon did after the S3 finale where he stated that back in season 1 he and JJ thought Lost would be a cult show with very few viewers that would get canceled, for lack of ratings, after 12 episodes. So, he and JJ decided that if they were going to do a show that was only going to last 12 hours, they would make the best 12 hours of television, ever.

So, they set out to build a story that could be told in 12 episodes. Let's call this the original plan. ...
Let's make a few changes to the stories we saw in S1:

Introduce Ben and the Others in episode 6
Jacob/MIB conversation about finding a loophole in episode 12
Ben kills Locke in episode 13
Locke "resurrects" in episode 14
Ben kills Jacob in episode 18, when it is revealed that resurrected Locke = MIB = Smokey
Episodes 19-22 explain why Jacob/MIB are in conflict and the characters progressively discover why they have to play a part in the final conflict (I'm guessing they will have to somehow save the world)
Episodes 23-24: Final battle and story resolution.

As long as the resolution of the main story is satisfying, I'm cool.

This is brilliant. I hadn't thought about the show as a one-season entity. But I have been re-watching S1 to appreciate the final season more. Your condensation of the events listed above puts the stories into perspective. As long as we know now- so S6 makes sense- who Ben and Charles are and who Jacob/MIB are, then we really could have done without all the rest. I wonder if the day Locke saw into the Island's eye was when MIB was to have taken him over- if this had been a one-season show. I had been feeling frustrated that the Jacob story has taken over the original story of our Losties, but now you've shown that this was the original intent. Thank you for writing such a thorough explanation of how we got here; and why now- all we really need to find out is, "guys, where are we?"

All I'm saying is that, for me, personally, the only thing I care about is the main plot. I don't care about the pregnancy issue, or Desmond's vision, or Libby's backstory or what happened to Annie. All I want to know is why the Losties were chosen and what is it that they are meant to do on the island.
...

They created all those plot points to extend the story, I'm recognizing that situation, and saying that if they don't resolve something that wasn't meant to be part of the main story (the 12 hour one), I'm not going to fret over it.


CL700, Get out of my head!

MT & I feel the same way. We just want to see what happens to the main characters. And that includes Vincent.

Btw, CL700, have you ever seen Lost in Spanish? We've caught the show a few times in Spanish. Mostly, the early seasons.

We kinda like it because there are or course some things you can say in Spanish that don't have the impact when they are said in English.

Btw, CL700, have you ever seen Lost in Spanish? We've caught the show a few times in Spanish. Mostly, the early seasons.

We kinda like it because there are or course some things you can say in Spanish that don't have the impact when they are said in English.

I did watch that when I visited my family in the Canary Islands a couple of years ago and found it disturbing. :biggrin:

The voices were off, and as good as the Spanish dubbing companies are, there's no way a voice actor can do the inflections and tones our actors do when recording the scene.

I'd rather have it in English. I remember that even when I spoke very little English, I preferred the subtitles in Spanish, rather than the dubbing because I always felt the message was carried across better.

It is funny though, to hear Jack say: Joder, hombre!!!

I did watch that when I visited my family in the Canary Islands a couple of years ago and found it disturbing. :biggrin:

The voices were off, and as good as the Spanish dubbing companies are, there's no way a voice actor can do the inflections and tones our actors do when recording the scene.

I'd rather have it in English. I remember that even when I spoke very little English, I preferred the subtitles in Spanish, rather than the dubbing because I always felt the message was carried across better.

It is funny though, to hear Jack say: Joder, hombre!!!
yeah, I can say the same thing. for me it's german dubbing though.

although for some series I acutally like the dubbing better, but that's probably only because I have gotton so used to it.

As for the fertility issue, it was very clear to me that Jughead caused it. I can live with that. They did answer it, if you don't like the answer, that's something else, but they did answer it.

I'm sorry but all I can do to that is roll my eyes. For one radiation can cause reduced sperm count in men, but that's not the case in fact the sperm count is increased. Even if we stretched the imagination to affect womens reproductive systems instead this wouldn't result in the death of the mother and child in the second trimester. So it can't be the connection with radiation that brought you and pretty much only you to this conclusion.

Tell me why you were very clear that Jughead caused it? Especially on a show that up until now taught us not to assume anything, but now they expect us to make this giant leap?

And to say you don't care about any of the mysteries from the first 3 seasons and expect that to be perfectly logical. ***Mod Edit***

NathanielStarr, I completely concur. I don't buy Jughead caused infertility. They said that sperm count was increased! If it was radiation poisoning then sperm count would decrease. Too many plot holes.

I don't want to rely on other people's theories as to what is happening in the show. I would like the professionals to step up to the plate and write a coherent explaination for all the grand mysteries that they put forth. I don't want some random person's conclusion. And I'm not a simpleton for expecting the people who wrote the series to give us a satisfying ending.

I'm sorry but all I can do to that is roll my eyes.

Roll away! It's a free country.

For one radiation can cause reduced sperm count in men, but that's not the case in fact the sperm count is increased. Even if we stretched the imagination to affect womens reproductive systems instead this wouldn't result in the death of the mother and child in the second trimester.

You seem to expect the answers to be plausible in the real world, when, since the very first season, we have been watching a show that asked us to suspend our disbelief and accept that a plane that was flying thousands of feet above the earth broke into three pieces that landed all on the same island, and that said crash was survived by over 60 people (40+ from the original beach and 20+ from the tail).

Below is the transcript from Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pilot,_Part_1_transcript):

JACK: [off camera at first] We must have been at about 40,000 feet when it happened. Hit an air pocket. Dropped, maybe, 200 feet. The turbulence was … I blacked out.
KATE: I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the, the front of the plane broke off.
JACK: Well, it's not here on the beach. Neither is the tail. We need to figure out which way we came in.
KATE: Why?
JACK: Because there's a chance we could find the cockpit. If it's intact, we might be able to find a transceiver. Send out a signal, help the rescue party find us.
KATE: How do you know all that?
JACK: Took a couple flying lessons. Wasn't for me.

Right then and there I knew that whatever answers this show was going to provide were not going to be within the parameters of the world as we know it.

On that very same episode and its continuation (Pilot, Part 2), we were introduced to a creature that howled while making mechanical noises, and was able to uproot tress, grab a person out of the cockpit and smash him to death, leaving him on top of a very tall tree.

Right then I knew the answers were going to be very much on the fantastical side, and that they would not be applicable to our reality.

At the end of S1 the creators gave an interview where they stated that the answers would be stated in terms of science or pseudo-science.

Right then I knew that the answers could be outlandish, crazy, illogical, and out of the realm of what is possible in the world as we know it. Pseudo-science encompasses anything from ghosts to aliens, including telekinesis, visions, psychic abilities, time traveling, vampires, zombies and everything in between.

I guess I realized that early enough and adjusted my expectations.

So it can't be the connection with radiation that brought you and pretty much only you to this conclusion.

I can assure you, it's not only me, but, if it were, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. People come to different conclusions all the time.

Tell me why you were very clear that Jughead caused it? Especially on a show that up until now taught us not to assume anything, but now they expect us to make this giant leap?

Here's the exact quote from TVGuide (http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/):

So will we ever learn why women couldn’t carry babies to term on the island? Isn’t that the whole reason Juliet was brought over by Dharma in the first place?—Jean B., via e-mail

Lindelof says the show is not going to specifically state why, however, “we feel like we’ve given you the empirical data so you can figure it out for yourself.” Hmm… a little more help please for the clueless? “Clearly Ethan was born on the island in 1977,” continues Lindelof. “That’s the last baby that we know of who was born on the island. And then something happened between 1977 and when our show takes place in 2004 (when Claire arrived eight months pregnant) where it’s been a long time since women have been able to have babies on the island. What might have happened between those two points that could have created fertility issues?”

Clue # 1: We have seen the event that caused the problem ("we’ve given you the empirical data so you can figure it out for yourself")

Clue # 2: This event happened after Ethan's birth

Clue # 3: The problem is contained to the island, therefore, the cause must be on the island.

Clue # 4: The event took place before Juliet's arrival in 2001 because she was brought there to help solve it


Events on the island we have seen/know about between the birth of Ethan in 1977 and the arrival of Juliet in 2001 (from Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:Pre-crash)):

Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid pop into 1977 Dharma
Dharma begins construction of the Swan
The Losties decide to carry out Faraday's plan
Faraday dies
Chang orders the evacuation of the island
The drill hits the pocket
Juliet detonates Jughead on top of a pocket of EM energy thousands of times more powerful (according to Faraday) than the energy at The Orchid.
The Swan is built, along with the button
Danielle and her crew arrive to the island
Sawyer and company flash to 1988 island times
Nadine is killed and Montand loses his arm
Sawyer and company flash to 1989
Danielle kills her team and records the radio tower message
Alex is born and gets kidnapped by Ben
The Purge takes place in 1992
Charles is evicted from the island
Mikhail arrives to the island and plays chess on the computer
Desmond arrives on the island, meets Kelvin and starts pushing the button
Juliet arrives on the island to help with the pregnancy issue
I don't know about you, but the only event that stands out for me in that list is the Jughead detonation. Is it realistic? Off course not. But I never expected it to be. And there's no occurrence in the world, as far as I know that replicates the detonation of a hydrogen bomb on top of a pocket of EM energy that can cause time traveling, so, the writers can basically make up any effects they want.

And to say you don't care about any of the mysteries from the first 3 seasons and expect that to be perfectly logical.

It is perfectly logical. I simply like different aspects of the show. I'm only interested in the main story (why the Losties? what is it that they are meant to do? Will they manage to accomplish it?), and more specifically in Jack's story. As long as I get a satisfying resolution on those two, I don't care about anything else. Maybe the resolution will be satisfying, maybe it won't, I'll wait until it airs to decide.

Why can't you accept that some people don't like the same thins you do? Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Do you seriously expect everyone to feel the same way you do? Why? What makes your opinion more right than anyone else's? Why must we all care about Desmond's visions?

And since we are on the subject of Desmond's visions, if you can suspend your disbelief enough to believe that someone can actually see the future, why can't you suspend your disbelief enough to accept that the Jughead detonation combined with the leaking EM energy from the Swan caused the pregnancy issue? Why is it so easy to accept one outrageous premise and not another? I mean, seriously? You buy that a guy can see the future and you don't buy that Jughead caused the fertility problems?

***Mod Edit***