I looked through a few pages of threads, and didn't see it mentioned, so I was wondering if anyone talked about the place Richard buried the cross? It sort of looked like a GARDEN OF EDEN type place? I am sure this has been talked about, I am sorry if this is a duplicate thread, but just wondering about everyone else's thoughts?

I don't think it's been talked about.

I didn't get anything Gardeny or Edeny out of it. It was a place with a bunch of benches. Like a sort of courtyard.

I looked through a few pages of threads, and didn't see it mentioned, so I was wondering if anyone talked about the place Richard buried the cross? It sort of looked like a GARDEN OF EDEN type place? I am sure this has been talked about, I am sorry if this is a duplicate thread, but just wondering about everyone else's thoughts?

I hadn't thought of this possibility, but now that you mention it, I thought that the bench that the cross was buried under was really beautifully designed and ornate for something that seemed literally out in the middle of nowhere. And when the camera panned out a couple of times to show the tree that the bench was under, well, it was really quite beautiful and extraordinary. Sort of like The Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden, maybe. Or maybe not, but it's fun to speculate anyway.

I looked through a few pages of threads, and didn't see it mentioned, so I was wondering if anyone talked about the place Richard buried the cross? It sort of looked like a GARDEN OF EDEN type place? I am sure this has been talked about, I am sorry if this is a duplicate thread, but just wondering about everyone else's thoughts?
I don't know about Garden of Eden, but it did look like a garden, or maybe the remnants of a courtyard. Interesting place. Where exactly did those benches (if that's what they were) come from?

The massive tree behind the chair where he buries it is obviously very Tree of Life ish.

Yes - That was what sort of really convinced me! When they panned back and you saw that huge tree? Plus, I may be reaching, but the MIB sort of likes to chill out there, and he just sort of reminded me of the snake tempting you to eat the apple? Richard did get sent back there by Jacob, and MIB was waiting there and told Richard if he changed his mind, he could come back there and take MIB up on his offer? I don't know, just sort of reminded me of the Garden of Eden! Again, I could be reaching, but it was my original reaction during 1st viewing of the show! I have watched the episode again since, and seeing it a 2nd time just made me think even more of the Garden of Eden?!

I wouldn't be surprised to know, with all the religious symbolism in this episode, that it was a reference to the Garden of Eden. Or even the Garden of Gethsemane where Jesus was lost and afraid and prayed.

Now that you mention it, it does seem kinda Eden-like with the tree shot.

My first reaction was that it was part of a Roman/Greek villa. I still lean that way due to the ancient ruin motif the island is decorated with.

My guess is that on a tropical island its hard not to have a long shot without a tree in it.

I would love to see some screencaps of this I also wondered about the benches...

Chances are that that area is the remnant of an old settlement. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it in some kind of flashback.

I would love to see some screencaps of this I also wondered about the benches...

Bench (http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/11681ecdeb8fcf4876a0e8c861cfaa08)

Wide Shot of Tree (http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/3d41d5f728a36ee20e983b2521006735)

can't find one of the tree AND the bench in the same shot :undecide:

Tree and Bench 1867 1 (http://www.losttalk.net/gallery/fullpicture_86512_o.html) 2 (http://www.losttalk.net/gallery/fullpicture_86511_o.html)
Possible Tree with bench (http://www.losttalk.net/gallery/fullpicture_86455_o.html) 2007/8 but Alpert might be blocking the bench.

I wouldn't be surprised to know, with all the religious symbolism in this episode, that it was a reference to the Garden of Eden. Or even the Garden of Gethsemane where Jesus was lost and afraid and prayed.

Oh, I like the symbolism of the Garden Of Gethsemane. Richard is being the adviser, the representative, just like Christ was to God. Plus we did see Jacob "baptize" Richard in the ocean. He was dunked 3 times.

The tree connotes passage of time and is pretty smooth work, in my opinion. When we first see the bench there is a little sapling behind it...140 years later, we have a big tree. Passage of time.

Yes - That was what sort of really convinced me! When they panned back and you saw that huge tree? Plus, I may be reaching, but the MIB sort of likes to chill out there, and he just sort of reminded me of the snake tempting you to eat the apple? Richard did get sent back there by Jacob, and MIB was waiting there and told Richard if he changed his mind, he could come back there and take MIB up on his offer? I don't know, just sort of reminded me of the Garden of Eden! Again, I could be reaching, but it was my original reaction during 1st viewing of the show! I have watched the episode again since, and seeing it a 2nd time just made me think even more of the Garden of Eden?!
It certainly does look like MiB has his residence there... with the campfire and all.
http://www.losttalk.net/gallery/fullpicture_86511_o.html
When Alpert goes back, the bench seems unused and is so overgrown... Has the MiB somehow been "released" by Alpert being on the island?
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/11681ecdeb8fcf4876a0e8c861cfaa08

I kind of like the idea that MiB is the angel overlooking the garden to keep man out...

Now that you mention it, it does seem kinda Eden-like with the tree shot.

My first reaction was that it was part of a Roman/Greek villa. I still lean that way due to the ancient ruin motif the island is decorated with.

My guess is that on a tropical island its hard not to have a long shot without a tree in it.
Looks Roman/Greek to me too...

Chances are that that area is the remnant of an old settlement. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it in some kind of flashback.
Historically/mythologically, some have speculated that the Canary Islands are the top-most part of the mountains of Atlantis... its all that's left of the ancient civilization after it sunk! Add that with the stonework... someone has said (in another thread) that the Lost Island may be part of the Canary Islands... but even if not, the symbolism between where Alpert comes from and the mystery of the island may have that connection going for it...

I don't know about the Garden of Eden but it seems we are being led down a biblical path. I did notice how absolutely beautiful the photography was during that scene. It really stood out. We don't usually get a lot of long scenery shots in Lost so yeah could be something or it could be just a choice the director made.

The tree is definitely reminiscent of the Tree of Life, and knowing this show - that's not a coincidence. I like the symbolism of MIB living in the Garden Eden while Jacob hangs out in the statue of a false God. LOL!

The tree is definitely reminiscent of the Tree of Life, and knowing this show - that's not a coincidence. I like the symbolism of MIB living in the Garden Eden while Jacob hangs out in the statue of a false God. LOL!

That is a very interesting observation. Is MIB the snake in the garden?

I'm so glad that several people have posted photos of the bench, tree, Richard and MiB. The bench does indeed have a Greek look about it.

In looking at the clip where Richard is digging up the cross, there are a lot of rocks, some of them sort of square-shaped (meaning that they were hewn by a human hand, I think) strewn about. What's that all about? Does it mean that there was some sort of building there at one time, that maybe fell apart? I wonder if this is supposed to mean something, since they are so obvious.

Oh, I like the symbolism of the Garden Of Gethsemane. Richard is being the adviser, the representative, just like Christ was to God. Plus we did see Jacob "baptize" Richard in the ocean. He was dunked 3 times.

Particularly since I have the feeling that Richard does know what to do next, as alluded to by Ilana, and is afraid.

first thing I thought was that it looked like a baobob tree...wikipedia has a reference to "The Little Prince" in that it's "thought to be able to "split" a planet in two."Interesting application to this situation, no?

It looks very much like a Saman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_pod) or 'Monkey Pod' tree.

So that tree... It wasn't there when he buried the cross was it? Or was it just a lot smaller? It seems like by the time he goes back the roots have almost taken over the bench.

Given how long a Saman can live for, and their range of growth (both height and extent of canopy), the size in 2007 is fairly accurate for a tree that is around 140 years old. With that extent of growth I'm surprised the bench hasn't been pushed over.

P.S. Ilana means 'tree' in Hebrew. Not sure how relevant that might be.

Peace
M

With all of the other religious allegory going on in the episode, yes, I thought it was sort of a Garden of Eden-ish place. However, I was more wondering why there were stone benches there when there weren't benches any other place on the island.

My reaction was there is no way that cross and bench could stay in the same place on an island that has daily heavy downpours. The erosion after 140 years would have either dumped a bunch of topsoil on the area or moved the earth completely making it impossible to dig something up with your hands after being buried for nearly a century and a half.

Not really relevant to the convo in any useful way, but after moving to Hawaii in December of last year... I've gotta say, those trees are amazing to look at. And absolutely frigging huge.

I'm so glad that several people have posted photos of the bench, tree, Richard and MiB. The bench does indeed have a Greek look about it.

In looking at the clip where Richard is digging up the cross, there are a lot of rocks, some of them sort of square-shaped (meaning that they were hewn by a human hand, I think) strewn about. What's that all about? Does it mean that there was some sort of building there at one time, that maybe fell apart? I wonder if this is supposed to mean something, since they are so obvious.

I noticed this as well, and forgot to mention this in my original post!
Not only did I notice a Garden of Eden type feel to that scene, but I thought that, at one point, their was some sort of structure there!

The tree connotes passage of time and is pretty smooth work, in my opinion. When we first see the bench there is a little sapling behind it...140 years later, we have a big tree. Passage of time.
Totally agree. It should get its own thread for "Continuity Win!"

The knives come out every time they get it wrong; no one notices when they get it right.

Of course, someone will probably research the kind of tree and determine it should be twenty feet bigger by now or not green this time of year or something.
100%
With all of the other religious allegory going on in the episode, yes, I thought it was sort of a Garden of Eden-ish place. However, I was more wondering why there were stone benches there when there weren't benches any other place on the island.
Maybe this is the food court.

My reaction was there is no way that cross and bench could stay in the same place on an island that has daily heavy downpours. The erosion after 140 years would have either dumped a bunch of topsoil on the area or moved the earth completely making it impossible to dig something up with your hands after being buried for nearly a century and a half.

I love posts like this! I am not trying to be rude and poop on your post, but using rational thought is funny when dealing with this show! How long have we been watching this show? This is an island that has a wheel underground that when turned, causes the island to move! This is an island with ghosts, visions, smoke monsters, people that live forever, polar bears - I can go on and on! Why, given all that information, and then sum, would it be so hard to believe that a stone looking bench couldn't stay the same after 140, 240, 1040, years of wear and tear and heavy downpours? Come on......anything is possible on this show! Physics, even though it has been discussed in magazines and in interviews, etc,. really don't apply to this show?! Just sayin!

With all of the other religious allegory going on in the episode, yes, I thought it was sort of a Garden of Eden-ish place. However, I was more wondering why there were stone benches there when there weren't benches any other place on the island.

It's a pretty spot. Why not put benches there? There are probably lots of old things on the island that we never see. Seems like new places are introduced every season. We could have said about the Swan in season one, why was there a hatch there when there weren't any hatches anywhere else on the island? We know people were there before Richard. And apparently they were there long enough to carve benches. Heck, maybe Smoke or Jacob made them eons ago.

..Maybe this is the food court.

Excellent observation! ;) So, we have the statue, the temple and now this. Looks like a great place to perform a wedding. Hm. http://www.fjkluth.com/wedding.html

So, this could have been MiB's home at one time.

Notice black horse: http://images.perseus.tufts.edu/images/1991.08.1/1991.08.0098 I wonder if the MiB's wife looked anything like Kate? Oh, I got you thinking now! :biggrin:
100%
I love posts like this! I am not trying to be rude and poop on your post, but using rational thought is funny when dealing with this show! How long have we been watching this show? This is an island that has a wheel underground that when turned, causes the island to move! This is an island with ghosts, visions, smoke monsters, people that live forever, polar bears - I can go on and on! Why, given all that information, and then sum, would it be so hard to believe that a stone looking bench couldn't stay the same after 140, 240, 1040, years of wear and tear and heavy downpours? Come on......anything is possible on this show! Physics, even though it has been discussed in magazines and in interviews, etc,. really don't apply to this show?! Just sayin!

Well said. Let the writers write and enjoy the show! Though, the writers are a bit sadistic... :71: Gee, must be why I like it! :redface:

Of course, someone will probably research the kind of tree and determine it should be twenty feet bigger by now or not green this time of year or something.

Actually I've already done that (see my post above re the Saman tree), and TPTB have got it about right. :)

From Wiki, "Tree of Life"

Ancient Egypt

In Egyptian mythology (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Egyptian_mythology), in the Ennead (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Ennead) system of Heliopolis (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Heliopolis_(ancient)), the first couple, apart from Shu (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Shu) & Tefnut (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Tefnut) (moisture & dryness) and Geb (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Geb) & Nuit (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Nuit) (earth & sky), are Isis (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Isis) & Osiris (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Osiris). They were said to have emerged from the acacia (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Acacia) tree of Saosis (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Saosis), which the Egyptians considered the "tree of life", referring to it as the "tree in which life and death are enclosed". A much later myth relates how Set (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Set_(god)) killed Osiris (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Osiris), putting him in a coffin, and throwing it into the Nile (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Nile), the coffin becoming embedded in the base of a tamarisk tree (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Tamarisk_tree).
The Egyptians' Holy Sycamore (http://forum.thefuselage.com/wiki/Sycamore_fig) also stood on the threshold of life and death, connecting the two worlds.


Sounds about right to me... and with all the heiroglyphs too.

Non-sequitur but my one question for Jacob=Good is... then why can't any children be born on the island? And why do the mothers always die?

Another good & pertinent wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil

So the tree is evil and leads to man being expelled from "heaven" and into the normal world. I wonder if that's anecdotal for those who end up expelled from the island going on to be normal in the ALT-timeline, and those who stay being up for the "position" Jacob vacated?

Just one thing crossed my mind though; how are we finding all these brand new locations? Obviously with something like the Lighthouse, I think Jacob sort of willed it into existence specifically for Hurley and Jack to find, but this little park area (stone benches and planters); it's like, how did nobody stumble across that before?

I know it's just the writing and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but it is kinda jarring.

Just one thing crossed my mind though; how are we finding all these brand new locations? Obviously with something like the Lighthouse, I think Jacob sort of willed it into existence specifically for Hurley and Jack to find, but this little park area (stone benches and planters); it's like, how did nobody stumble across that before?

I know it's just the writing and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but it is kinda jarring.
The Island is big, and they spent most of their less-than-four-months in a few locations, or going in a straight line between those locations. Only Sayid took time to really explore, and he only got about a day from camp. I stumble across stuff in my neighborhood that I didn't notice every so often.

I initially saw a garden too here - that is some tree! (and then some) but all those bits of scattered masonry... I'm seeing more court than courtyard.

I think the 'bench' may be a throne from which judgment is passed. It looks like the simple structure the Pharaoh sits on in Jacob's tapestry.

Wait a second -- pharoah? Oh my god. Jacob and MIB's real names are...Atem and Seto!