Once again we see Locke offer his hand only to be rejected. Kate rejected it, Jin rejected it, if I remember correctly Sawyer rejected it. But most interestingly, Jack offered it, and Sun accepted. Does this speak to conclusion that Jack is, indeed, THE candidate? It certainly seems obvious that Sun has made her choice, even though she said she didn't know why she didn't go with Locke. She's with Jack, and looked at jack with amused sincerity when she said she trusted him. I think her taking of his hand sealed her fate and lines her up on Team Jacob. I also think, and thought during each occurrence, that everyone who has denied Locke's hand that is with him is not really with him. And we've definitely been told that in as many words by Sawyer's machinations.

I think Jack as the Candidate is a bit too obvious. I see him more as a Richard-type, an advisor. A shepard, if you will, like his name. I think the Candidate is Sun. Jack will show her the path, but it's going to be up her to follow it. This is something I wrote to a friend a few days ago:

She's been under the radar for a while. It's felt like they're keeping her hidden in one hand while the other hand is busy, like a magician hiding the trick.

Like Sawyer and Sayid, she knew Locke wasn't Locke when she met him, or at least that something wasn't right about him. Jin didn't. He thought Locke was Locke, so that indicates to me she is the candidate of the two Kwans.

Of the Oceanic Six, she was the only one who stayed with Locke when they returned to the Island. The others all got shipped back to '77. It's like the Island itself was trying to keep them together. The candidate can't very well keep the wine in the bottle if they're in the wrong decade.

She's the only one who's really got something to protect: her child. Jack, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer: none of them have anything back home that they're really tied to. They're really all alone. Sun has a child to save. And if she knew the only way to protect her child was to stay on that Island and make sure Man In Black Locke never got off it, I think she would.

Good thread. The parallel with Jack, MIB and Jacob in this thread is pretty striking. I immediately thought that Jack has already taken over for Jacob. Hurley is more in the Richard role as he can speak with Jacob. And Jack is now recruiting people. Have we seen him do this for anyone else before this?

It's worth keeping an eye on going forward.

The other crazy idea I had was that Jack was somehow the third entity. It is not Jacob vs. MIB. It's Jacob vs. MIB vs. Jack. I don't know if this is possible. He doesn't seem entirely aligned with Jacob though. He promised to get Sun and Jin back together and off the island. I think that might clash with Jacob's plan.

I've been thinking this too recently. She has a sort of spirituality about her and she is a strong woman. She's been fearless, and connects with the Island (her garden). Also, it'd be nice for there to have a female guardian for once, it would balance the Island's energy. Actually, for that reason, her AND Jin taking Jacob's spot would bring even greater balance to the Island as they protect it against MIB or whatever force replaces him.

I hope they are reunited with Yi Jeon. I could see Jack sacrificing himself for them, or serving as advisor with Hurley in more of a sidekick role.

It's sort of like Jin and sun are being tested right now. By Widmore, Smokey, and Jack.

Why does it seem that Jacob talks about free will, yet it seems he isnt giving people a choice at all when he is "touching" them, while Flocke seems to be bending the free will of others yet gives them a choice to be touched or not? Seems contradictory.

Is it possible that Jacob is giving them free will with the touch that isnt their choice, but MIB is taking their free will with a willing decision to go to the dark side.

Doesn't really make full sense to me, but it could manifest in things like Sawyer's pen was taken away, but his life was then allowed to have "free will".

Could the island be the only place where that would be possible. Off island his life goes a certain way, but going to the island gives him actual free will (which might be worth the sacrifice of living on the island to some). I remember we had a thread going related to this at one point that said the island is the only place where free will actually exists due to some weird relationship with the "real" world.

Like things were decided on the island that creates the reality of the outside world, so you are basically victim to the choices of the island if you don't live on it.

MIB is trying to take these people off the island where maybe they just don't have free will. He has decided to give up his own free will because after thousands of years he is sick of the pressure and the burden of having free will and creating the world's reality so to speak. He might even see it as unethical.

Crazy talk or possible?

Once again we see Locke offer his hand only to be rejected. Kate rejected it, Jin rejected it, if I remember correctly Sawyer rejected it. But most interestingly, Jack offered it, and Sun accepted. Does this speak to conclusion that Jack is, indeed, THE candidate? It certainly seems obvious that Sun has made her choice, even though she said she didn't know why she didn't go with Locke. She's with Jack, and looked at jack with amused sincerity when she said she trusted him. I think her taking of his hand sealed her fate and lines her up on Team Jacob. I also think, and thought during each occurrence, that everyone who has denied Locke's hand that is with him is not really with him. And we've definitely been told that in as many words by Sawyer's machinations.
I thought the moment between Jack and Sun was both poignant and important. It was a reminder of the trust his fellow Losties have for Jack, and it was reminiscent of Sayid's statement earlier in the season that he didn't care who saved him, he only cared about who he trusted......Jack. Such things do not come easily, but that trust has endured. And I think that when Jack extended his hand to Sun, as Flocke had done earlier, it was foreshadowing that Jack is the candidate. Some people consider that too obvious, but not everything in Lost, or anything else, has to come as a shock. It is the process, the trip, that matters, and it is the slow development of Jack into what he is supposed to be that is part of what has always made Lost so special.

MIB is trying to take these people off the island where maybe they just don't have free will. He has decided to give up his own free will because after thousands of years he is sick of the pressure and the burden of having free will and creating the world's reality so to speak. He might even see it as unethical.

Crazy talk or possible?

I think its possible. There definitely seems to be some significance between Locke holding out his hand and whether his hand is taken or not. It could either just be the writers using symbolism or it could be that he has a touch similar to Jacob's...but my assumption is that also eliminates free will. Perhaps at one point Jacob and MIB were very similar in that they both wanted limited interactions with those that came to the island...then some event changed that?

I'm torn between Jack as the candidate and Sun. But, my question is, what happens to the other 5 candidates when one is chosen? Boone was on that list, he's dead. Locke was on that list, and he's dead. Does that mean the other 5 will die once one is chosen?

And I think that when Jack extended his hand to Sun, as Flocke had done earlier, it was foreshadowing that Jack is the candidate. Some people consider that too obvious, but not everything in Lost, or anything else, has to come as a shock. It is the process, the trip, that matters, and it is the slow development of Jack into what he is supposed to be that is part of what has always made Lost so special.

Very nicely said and I think that I agree with you, but here is another question. SHOULD people trust him? Should Sun be trusting him? Would Sawyer trust him? Hurley trusts him, but Hurley seems to be above Jack or maybe Hurley would take Jacob's word above Jacks.

I guess I am just not so quick to buy Jack being the best leader. Jack has never had faith before and now he suddenly has all of it in the world. With the track record of the show, faith in something you have never met and don't really know anything about isn't rewarded with good things happening.

But I completely agree with the importance of the scene and what it very well might be foreshadowing.

Jack is acting a lot more like Jacob lately (since the lighthouse). He's calm, laid back, yet has a plan.... and is gaining the people's trust as you pointed out.

Doesn't necessarily means he's the one to replace Jacob... but it is very noticible.

Jack is acting a lot more like Jacob lately (since the lighthouse). He's calm, laid back, yet has a plan.... and is gaining the people's trust as you pointed out.

Doesn't necessarily means he's the one to replace Jacob... but it is very noticible.

Calm and laid back is not Jack and while it is a little different now the change is very sudden. Maybe the lighthouse incident made him learn that playing the bull in the china shop isn't the right idea but a slower progression would have made more sense if they are really going down that road. I still think jack is too impulsive to be a good Jacob.

I'm torn between Jack as the candidate and Sun. But, my question is, what happens to the other 5 candidates when one is chosen? Boone was on that list, he's dead. Locke was on that list, and he's dead. Does that mean the other 5 will die once one is chosen?
Miles Ben, are both on the list and crossed off but are both still living.

I've believed Jack is the "hero" or "candidate" or whatever you want to call it since day one. Go back and watch early episodes, especially White Rabbit. It seems as if this whole thing has been one long exercise in getting Jack to where he needs to be.

(At least it is if you're buying into the notion that the writers have had a "plan" all along. The time travel season makes me think they're making it up as they go along.)

I've believed Jack is the "hero" or "candidate" or whatever you want to call it since day one.

I suppose that's why I don't believe in it. The show has never done the obvious or predictable thing. If anything, they like to make you expect one thing then throw you a curveball. The fact that they seem to be so heavily setting Jack up to be the Candidate makes me doubt it so much. It's too obvious for them.

How often has Lost done something that made you say,"Yeah, saw that coming"?

Let's just say Jack's bedside manner has improved....

I thought the moment between Jack and Sun was both poignant and important. It was a reminder of the trust his fellow Losties have for Jack, and it was reminiscent of Sayid's statement earlier in the season that he didn't care who saved him, he only cared about who he trusted......Jack. Such things do not come easily, but that trust has endured. And I think that when Jack extended his hand to Sun, as Flocke had done earlier, it was foreshadowing that Jack is the candidate. Some people consider that too obvious, but not everything in Lost, or anything else, has to come as a shock. It is the process, the trip, that matters, and it is the slow development of Jack into what he is supposed to be that is part of what has always made Lost so special.

Very well said and exactly my feelings on the subject. We're talking about someone who has been fighting something he can't see every since he has been on the island, and fighting anyone who told him there is something special about the Island. While he's the most obvious candidate to those of us viewing, he's actually the least obvious one in terms of the story. Jack has to spiritually travel the farthest to come terms with things as they are.
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I suppose that's why I don't believe in it. The show has never done the obvious or predictable thing. If anything, they like to make you expect one thing then throw you a curveball. The fact that they seem to be so heavily setting Jack up to be the Candidate makes me doubt it so much. It's too obvious for them.

How often has Lost done something that made you say,"Yeah, saw that coming"?

A few times actually. Richard on the black rock (set up in much the same way this season and previously as Jack is), the black rock knocking out the statue, the island traveling in time after the fdw was turned. There's a few things that they couch in mystery simply to confuse you away from the obvious. Knowing that the writers prefer to have a surprise up their sleeve allows them to surprise with the obvious from time to time.

...Like Sawyer and Sayid, she knew Locke wasn't Locke when she met him, or at least that something wasn't right about him. Jin didn't. He thought Locke was Locke, so that indicates to me she is the candidate of the two Kwans.

Sun knew FLocke wasn't Locke because she knew that Locke was dead in a casket on the plane. Jin did not know this.

I hope the writing is good enough on the upcoming episodes so that when (if?) a replacement for Jacob is designated, I can believe it is meant to be. Right now I can't envision any of them as a Jacob, because they all seem so human.

I can't jive this because Jacob is dead (but still pops up), but it's like Jacob and MIB are matter and antimatter, and should just add to zero in the end. It's the separation that's dangerous, but ying and yang together is as it should be. That kind of feeling.

I hope the writing is good enough on the upcoming episodes so that when (if?) a replacement for Jacob is designated, I can believe it is meant to be. Right now I can't envision any of them as a Jacob, because they all seem so human.

I can't jive this because Jacob is dead (but still pops up), but it's like Jacob and MIB are matter and antimatter, and should just add to zero in the end. It's the separation that's dangerous, but ying and yang together is as it should be. That kind of feeling.

If MiB used to be a regular human, it would stand to reason that Jacob, to whom he is intimately linked, would also fall under that category. Hence any replacement of either would also come from the pool of humanity...if he's telling the truth about the candidate being the intended one to replace him. That could be somewhat of a half-truth.

I think Jack has already replaced Jacob. Why would there be a gap between "leaders" (for lack of a better word)? I was under the impression that Jacob told MiB that there would always be someone there (hence, "i'll find someone to replace me").

Furthermore, Jacob seemed ready to die when Ben stabbed him. I think this is because he knew his sucessor was already in place. When he died, Jack claimed his position, automatically. This is why we see Jack becoming so much like Jacob. Illana may know that a successor has been chosen, but she does not know which candidate it is. This could also be the reason Flocke needs all the candidates. He knows one of them is the new Jacob.

Very nicely said and I think that I agree with you, but here is another question. SHOULD people trust him? Should Sun be trusting him? Would Sawyer trust him? Hurley trusts him, but Hurley seems to be above Jack or maybe Hurley would take Jacob's word above Jacks.

I guess I am just not so quick to buy Jack being the best leader. Jack has never had faith before and now he suddenly has all of it in the world. With the track record of the show, faith in something you have never met and don't really know anything about isn't rewarded with good things happening.



Jack has had one consistent quality and that is that he puts the rest of the Losties lives ahead of his own. From season one through season six he has done this consistently, which is part of what makes him so damn stubborn. He won't give up. This is part of the reason why Hurley, Sayid, and now Sun have put their trust in Jack. He may not make all the right decisions every time, but he will literally risk or give his life for any of them, and they know it. That's why when Jack asked Sun if she trusted him, she said yes. It's why Sayid told Jack that if he told him to take the pill he would because he trusted Jack. Jack ended up taking the pill himself rather than sacrifice Sayid. I'd throw Kate and Jin into that trust pool as well. Sawyer doesn't trust himself let alone anyone else so winning him over wouldn't be on my "must-do" list.

Calm and laid back is not Jack and while it is a little different now the change is very sudden. Maybe the lighthouse incident made him learn that playing the bull in the china shop isn't the right idea but a slower progression would have made more sense if they are really going down that road. I still think jack is too impulsive to be a good Jacob.
Just to keep things real here, do we even have the slightest idea what it is that being Jacob is even all about? It is said that this person or that person should be the next Jacob, or this person or that person is qualifed/unqualified to be the next Jacob. And yet no one has even the slightest clue what Jacob does, how he/she gets chosen or gets endowed with whatever powers Jacob is endowed with.
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I suppose that's why I don't believe in it. The show has never done the obvious or predictable thing. If anything, they like to make you expect one thing then throw you a curveball. The fact that they seem to be so heavily setting Jack up to be the Candidate makes me doubt it so much. It's too obvious for them.

How often has Lost done something that made you say,"Yeah, saw that coming"?
Yet not even on Lost must everything comes as an earth-shattering shock. Sometimes, just sometimes, one gets to experience the ever-so-subtle feeling that something is afoot......and turn out to be right. What I would find lame is if the likely identity of the person to replace Jacob really did come out of left field. We are far too close to the end for that.
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I think Jack has already replaced Jacob. Why would there be a gap between "leaders" (for lack of a better word)? I was under the impression that Jacob told MiB that there would always be someone there (hence, "i'll find someone to replace me").

Furthermore, Jacob seemed ready to die when Ben stabbed him. I think this is because he knew his sucessor was already in place. When he died, Jack claimed his position, automatically. This is why we see Jack becoming so much like Jacob. Illana may know that a successor has been chosen, but she does not know which candidate it is. This could also be the reason Flocke needs all the candidates. He knows one of them is the new Jacob.
Interesting that you should bring that up. I have always had this theory that the island had already chosen the next Jacob. I have little to offer in the way of proof, of course, but then that is why it is called a theory. But I always thought it odd that the island would be without a Jacob......even for a little while. It just seems so illogical, and dangerous, too. And, so, then I wondered about the "six" candidates. I wondered if, perhaps, the identity of the next Jacob is hidden within other names as a form of protection.......which perhaps also protects others, as well. I just can't shake the feeling that Jacob knew precisely who his successor was, and went to his death with utter confidence that all would be well, or at least as it should be. And I think I might be right with my theory, so I have decided to hold onto it until things are proven otherwise.
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Very nicely said and I think that I agree with you, but here is another question. SHOULD people trust him? Should Sun be trusting him? Would Sawyer trust him? Hurley trusts him, but Hurley seems to be above Jack or maybe Hurley would take Jacob's word above Jacks.

I guess I am just not so quick to buy Jack being the best leader. Jack has never had faith before and now he suddenly has all of it in the world. With the track record of the show, faith in something you have never met and don't really know anything about isn't rewarded with good things happening.

But I completely agree with the importance of the scene and what it very well might be foreshadowing.
I guess the answer to your question is that only you can decide whether his fellow Losties should trust Jack. I submit that they do, that the evidence in the show shows that they do, and that he has well earned that. Whether you feel differently is for you to decide.

I thought the moment between Jack and Sun was both poignant and important. It was a reminder of the trust his fellow Losties have for Jack, and it was reminiscent of Sayid's statement earlier in the season that he didn't care who saved him, he only cared about who he trusted......Jack. Such things do not come easily, but that trust has endured. And I think that when Jack extended his hand to Sun, as Flocke had done earlier, it was foreshadowing that Jack is the candidate. Some people consider that too obvious, but not everything in Lost, or anything else, has to come as a shock. It is the process, the trip, that matters, and it is the slow development of Jack into what he is supposed to be that is part of what has always made Lost so special.

Wonderful post! That was my absolute favorite scene of the epi. It reminded me of when Jack talked to Rose in S1 and helped her see how she needed to take care of herself. I believe she said he was a good man. And she was right. :)

I've been rewatching S1 and had forgotten how many people Jack saved in just those first few days. And he continued to care for all of them at the expense of his own health and safety. I'm happy to see some of his old selflessness coming back into play.


Jack has had one consistent quality and that is that he puts the rest of the Losties lives ahead of his own. From season one through season six he has done this consistently, which is part of what makes him so damn stubborn. He won't give up. This is part of the reason why Hurley, Sayid, and now Sun have put their trust in Jack. He may not make all the right decisions every time, but he will literally risk or give his life for any of them, and they know it. That's why when Jack asked Sun if she trusted him, she said yes. It's why Sayid told Jack that if he told him to take the pill he would because he trusted Jack. Jack ended up taking the pill himself rather than sacrifice Sayid. I'd throw Kate and Jin into that trust pool as well. Sawyer doesn't trust himself let alone anyone else so winning him over wouldn't be on my "must-do" list.

Yeah, Jack doesn't give up. Makes you wonder if his dad knew what would be expected of him one day, leading Christian to be so tough on his son.

Jack might have seemed as though he was making wrong decisions to some at times, but it's important to remember that none of the Losties were forced to follow him or do anything he asked. Well, maybe Sawyer was a bit coerced when Jack threatened to take the meds away and said Sawyer's arm would start to itch and he'd beg him to cut it off. But Sawyer had that coming. He's his own worst enemy at times (but I still love him :kiss:).

Interesting that you should bring that up. I have always had this theory that the island had already chosen the next Jacob. I have little to offer in the way of proof, of course, but then that is why it is called a theory. But I always thought it odd that the island would be without a Jacob......even for a little while. It just seems so illogical, and dangerous, too. And, so, then I wondered about the "six" candidates. I wondered if, perhaps, the identity of the next Jacob is hidden within other names as a form of protection.......which perhaps also protects others, as well. I just can't shake the feeling that Jacob knew precisely who his successor was, and went to his death with utter confidence that all would be well, or at least as it should be. And I think I might be right with my theory, so I have decided to hold onto it until things are proven otherwise.

You put it so much better than I do. I get the feeling that there's something, I have no idea what, that the viewers aren't aware of yet. Whatever that something is, it's big, and it's a game-changer. But until we find out what that something is, I'm going to say that the candidate has already been selected. It's sort of like our line of presidency. If the president was unable to serve, would we all just start campaigning and do another election but meanwhile have no president? Of course not! We know that Jacob can defend himself (he seemed to do a pretty good job with Richard), so the fact that Ben just stabbed and killed him says something. Jacob wanted to die, or at least, was ready to die. If he wasn't, he would have taken Ben out.

Sun knew FLocke wasn't Locke because she knew that Locke was dead in a casket on the plane. Jin did not know this.

Jin knew Locke was dead. Maybe not that he was in a casket on the plane, but he knew he was dead. Jack tells Sawyer and Jin when they first get back to '77.

Sawyer: "Locke said he was gonna bring you back, but- Where is he?"
Jack: "John's dead."
Sawyer: "Dead? How?"
Jack: "It doesn't matter. He's gone."

Jin is standing right next to them and hears the whole thing. They even cut to him for a reaction shot after Jack says, "He's gone." It's in the opening of the season five episode "Namaste."

If Jack becomes the new Jacob, I will be quite put out. It's too easy, and I've never liked Jack as a character anyway. He's too much of a boy- scout. He just really annoys me. He's almost too perfect, but in those things that he is not perfect at, it's almost too overdone. Like they're trying to make his hurdles extra big so it is so much more important (for lack of a better word) when he overcomes them.

I don't really care who becomes the new Jacob, just as long as it's NOT Jack. No offense meant to Matthew Fox, or any Jack fans.