What is Frost doing at the carnival? Is he going to kidnap Charlie to keep Mark from coming after him. Or is going to threaten Olivia?

I'm definitely thinking he wants to get to Mark... push his buttons. Not entirely sure why. Mark seems to be throwing everything to the wind in pursuit of his investigation, maybe Frost wants him to stop investigating and thinks his kid will do the trick? But then other times it seems like Frost wants him to dig deeper and uncover stuff...

With a dad who's an FBI agent and a mom who's a doctor I'm sure they have taught Charlie about Stranger Danger. I hope she uses those lessons and starts screaming bloody murder cause I don't want Dyson taking her. He murders innocent children. :fear3:

I figured he wanted to get to Mark through Charlie by why I have no idea! It could also be that he will use Charlie to get to Lloyd through Olivia. Frost seems to be everywhere. :uhh:
If he's using her to get to Mark, I would imagine that it's to keep Mark busy and out of the way and, at the same time, having him running around without an alibi for when he shoots Dim.
If he using Charlie to get to Lloyd, it might have something to do with the equation that was on the bedroom mirror in Lloyd and Liv's FF. :shrug:

I think he just wants to place a call to Mark letting him know that he has "all the chess pieces". He has, in his "hands" at the Carnival: Dem (knocked out in the back seat), Charlie (sitting right next to him on a bench), and Olivia.

By the way - where the heck is the "body guard"!

Oh yea, the other thing I saw playing out with Charlie until I saw the preview (and I guess could still work technically) is for Frost to set up a situation where Mark is choosing between Dem and Charlie. Maybe a rig is set up with Charlie and with Dem and Mark can only disable one of them?

Dylan's warning to Charlie in her FF. D. Gibbons is a bad man. She doesn't know what he looks like but if he introduces himself as D. Gibbons, Charlie will know she's in danger. Scream, Charlie, Scream!!!! and run.

I think Olivia wins "worst parent of the year" award after this episode. Who lets their kid run off unaccompanied at a sketchy carnival at night?

Hoping Charlie makes a big racket as well. Considering how emotionally sensitive she seems, it would be pretty out of character if she didn't. I wonder if Frost will introduce himself at all? Maybe he knows Charlie knows of him already...

I think Olivia wins "worst parent of the year" award after this episode. Who lets their kid run off unaccompanied at a sketchy carnival at night?

Hoping Charlie makes a big racket as well. Considering how emotionally sensitive she seems, it would be pretty out of character if she didn't. I wonder if Frost will introduce himself at all? Maybe he knows Charlie knows of him already...

I couldn't believe that Olivia did not have an arrangement with some other parent if she volunteered to run a booth She said it was a school carnival so surely there was some parent avaiable to watch Charlie. Bad Mom and stupid wife......she wins both.

I couldn't believe that Olivia did not have an arrangement with some other parent if she volunteered to run a booth She said it was a school carnival so surely there was some parent avaiable to watch Charlie. Bad Mom and stupid wife......she wins both.

Honestly, they have got to do better with Olivia. You are a surgeon, but you freak out when your daughter has a little bump - needing Lloyd to help you attend to her? Last episode - you tell Mark, via voicemail, "thank you" for the body guard, yet now you are leaving your daughter alone at night at a carnival? You are upset your husband won't run away with you so the FF won't come true (which includes in your mind his death) and your response is to initiate events to make it come true?

Why didn't Olivia just take Charlie to Denver? That would still keep her and Charlie's FF from coming true, both of which were as dramatic, if not more so, than Mark's?

Her character make no sense and now she annoys me more than helps with the story line.

It is no wonder Mark developed a drinking problem originally if this is her typical behavior. She is not an easy character to like.

The increasingly omnipotent Dyson Frost is becoming more and more puzzling. I don't think he is after Charlie. I wonder if this was their first meeting? Could he have suggested the park meeting to Charlie. It does seem odd that out of the blue, Charlie calls Dylan (got his phone number from him when he was in the hospital (suspicous)). With Dylan's condition would he be able to have this phone conversation and effectively carry out the directions.

Somewhere around the 5th or 6th episode Mark started grating on me. It may have been a bad character choice "surly" is the word that came to mind. That seems to have been changed during the break or I just got used to it.

Now Olivia seems to have suffered some kind of brain injury. Under normal circumstances, a school carnival should be an OK place for Charlie to be with her friends but not with what Olivia has knowledge of. How old is Charlie? 7?

As with someone seeing a passenger run up and suddenly shoot the helmsman of the Titanic in the head only minutes later to understand that this person wearing strange clothes has just averted a disaster by turning the wheel in the nick of time, we have to trust the PTB that they know what they are doing. We are of course limited by being linear creatures (at present) and we only see what looks to be confusing choices. The "better" choices we think are what we should be viewing here have been tried and discarded in past time lines. Using a moebius perspective, we might see Charlie (and also Dylan) knowing more about the big picture than the adults do.

My guess at next week is that Charlie will not run and will listen to what Dyson has to say (against the grain of what would be normal reaction). Then he'll slip away and leave her in safety for Livy to find. He is in his manipulation mode as usual as the top puppet master, the tragic anti-hero I'm calling our "Dark Knight" of FlashForward.

With a dad who's an FBI agent and a mom who's a doctor I'm sure they have taught Charlie about Stranger Danger. I hope she uses those lessons and starts screaming bloody murder cause I don't want Dyson taking her. He murders innocent children. :fear3:

Charlie sure did have an apprehensive look on her face when she turned to Frost. I don't think Frost was intending to physically take Charlie but rather to intimidate her, Olivia and Mark. Frost did have Dem in the back seat of his car while parked at the school carnival. It's interesting that Frost would take the chance of Dem becoming conscious while he was away from the car.

Where the heck was that security agent that Mark supposedly assigned to Olivia and Charlie? :ermm:
100%
Somewhere around the 5th or 6th episode Mark started grating on me. It may have been a bad character choice "surly" is the word that came to mind. That seems to have been changed during the break or I just got used to it.

Now Olivia seems to have suffered some kind of brain injury. Under normal circumstances, a school carnival should be an OK place for Charlie to be with her friends but not with what Olivia has knowledge of. How old is Charlie? 7?

At the school carnival when Olivia was talking to Mark on the cell, Mark told her to be careful. Why didn't Mark or Olivia mention that "security detail agent" who was following Olivia and Charlie? I think my original suspicion is correct in that Mark never assigned an agent to safeguard Olivia and Charlie. Why wouldn't Mark have told her in advance?
100%
As with someone seeing a passenger run up and suddenly shoot the helmsman of the Titanic in the head only minutes later to understand that this person wearing strange clothes has just averted a disaster by turning the wheel in the nick of time, we have to trust the PTB that they know what they are doing. We are of course limited by being linear creatures (at present) and we only see what looks to be confusing choices. The "better" choices we think are what we should be viewing here have been tried and discarded in past time lines. Using a moebius perspective, we might see Charlie (and also Dylan) knowing more about the big picture than the adults do.

My guess at next week is that Charlie will not run and will listen to what Dyson has to say (against the grain of what would be normal reaction). Then he'll slip away and leave her in safety for Livy to find. He is in his manipulation mode as usual as the top puppet master, the tragic anti-hero I'm calling our "Dark Knight" of FlashForward.

I'm just not seeing Frost as being good...yet. :dongetit: And I thought I was the eternal optimist. ;)

As I've already stated, I don't think Frost will physically take Charlie so ITA that Frost is manipulating through intimidation.

I'm just not seeing Frost as being good...yet. :dongetit: And I thought I was the eternal optimist. ;)


As humbly as I can, I'll offer that I don't think the PTB thought anyone would see Frost as anything but a madman for some time.

And to give the answer that the OP wanted here, it's clearly obvious to me. Dyson Frost parked the car to get some cotton candy. :biggrin:

As humbly as I can, I'll offer that I don't think the PTB thought anyone would see Frost as anything but a madman for some time.

And to give the answer that the OP wanted here, it's clearly obvious to me. Dyson Frost parked the car to get some cotton candy. :biggrin:

Don't worry about being humble. I, for one, enjoy reading your take on things. Your insight is much more non-linear than my little linear brain. I'm sure the PTB grin ear to ear when they read your posts. Besides, what fun would it be discussing the series if we all agreed on everything?

After eating his cotton candy, Dyson went into the "magic mirror funhouse". :23wtp28_jpg:

Don't worry about being humble. I, for one, enjoy reading your take on things. Your insight is much more non-linear than my little linear brain. I'm sure the PTB grin ear to ear when they read your posts. Besides, what fun would it be discussing the series if we all agreed on everything?

After eating his cotton candy, Dyson went into the "magic mirror funhouse". :23wtp28_jpg:

If TPTB didn't think that little idea up then they should quick-edit next week's episode and slide it in. Fun-house mirror room? Brilliant idea there Futura!
100%
As with someone seeing a passenger run up and suddenly shoot the helmsman of the Titanic in the head only minutes later to understand that this person wearing strange clothes has just averted a disaster by turning the wheel in the nick of time, we have to trust the PTB that they know what they are doing. We are of course limited by being linear creatures (at present) and we only see what looks to be confusing choices. The "better" choices we think are what we should be viewing here have been tried and discarded in past time lines. Using a moebius perspective, we might see Charlie (and also Dylan) knowing more about the big picture than the adults do.

For those that watched last night's episode of The Pacific, you got a front row seat at an excellent example of utilitarianism. The soldier that 'lost it" and started screaming at night was very likely going to quickly allow the enemy to find the location of the entrenched Marines. A soldier took a shovel and hit him over the head, killing him as it turned out. The next morning as the soldier was thinking of what he had done the previous night to a fellow soldier his commanding officer told him he had made the correct choice and had saved them all.

This is the camouflage that is being laid on thick with a trowel on Dyson (on a large scale) and down to the smallest with Al Gough doing it to himself. Simon didn't see the bigger picture and killed Flosso for what appeared to be the acts of a sadistic murderer. The conundrum for Dyson as well as Flosso was that it was critical to keep Simon in the dark as he will be needed to construct the rings in the future that Dyson needs back in the past to shield him from the effects and anchor him as an observer. Yep, a moebius loop.

As to what Dyson is doing at the carnival, my guess is that he will leave a message with Charlie to pass on to Mark that will be a clue as to where Demetri is. It also sends a message that he could have kidnapped or otherwise harmed Charlie but didn't, which sends another message to Mark. He's playing Mark like a fish. Or rather like a fish being maneuvered by a pursuing shark. :rolleyes:

After eating his cotton candy, Dyson went into the "magic mirror funhouse". :23wtp28_jpg:
:rotflmao2: Or maybe it was his turn in the bouncy house? :p

I think people may be being a tad harsh on Olivia. Kissing Lloyd is probably the dumbest thing she did, but there are many reasons that led to that choice. In regards to Charlie, it's so easy for a child to wander off even if you turn away for a second. Granted, she should have been far more alert under the circumstances - and echoing others, what about the bodyguard?! (Still not sure he was genuine!)

As for Dyson Frost. I don't think he's going to take Charlie. Much more likely, IMO, that he will say something that will get back to Mark letting him know that he's watching. :)

I have to agree Imisspadfoot, I think Frost is going to tell Charlie "I'm a going to call your Dad while we sit here". I think then Frost will deliver a message regarding Demetri and then put Charlie on the phone. Mark won't know where Olivia is and will assume the worst. Frost is trying to maneuver Mark into doing what he wants him to do. The last thing Frost needs is to be dealing with a kidnapped child. He's running for his life.

I think Olivia wins "worst parent of the year" award after this episode. Who lets their kid run off unaccompanied at a sketchy carnival at night?

Hoping Charlie makes a big racket as well. Considering how emotionally sensitive she seems, it would be pretty out of character if she didn't. I wonder if Frost will introduce himself at all? Maybe he knows Charlie knows of him already...
I couldn't believe that Olivia did not have an arrangement with some other parent if she volunteered to run a booth She said it was a school carnival so surely there was some parent avaiable to watch Charlie. Bad Mom and stupid wife......she wins both. I was thinking the same thing! Surely, she can't be that clueless.


Honestly, they have got to do better with Olivia. You are a surgeon, but you freak out when your daughter has a little bump - needing Lloyd to help you attend to her? Last episode - you tell Mark, via voicemail, "thank you" for the body guard, yet now you are leaving your daughter alone at night at a carnival? You are upset your husband won't run away with you so the FF won't come true (which includes in your mind his death) and your response is to initiate events to make it come true?

Why didn't Olivia just take Charlie to Denver? That would still keep her and Charlie's FF from coming true, both of which were as dramatic, if not more so, than Mark's?

Her character make no sense and now she annoys me more than helps with the story line.
Somewhere around the 5th or 6th episode Mark started grating on me. It may have been a bad character choice "surly" is the word that came to mind. That seems to have been changed during the break or I just got used to it.

Now Olivia seems to have suffered some kind of brain injury. Under normal circumstances, a school carnival should be an OK place for Charlie to be with her friends but not with what Olivia has knowledge of. How old is Charlie? 7?
I totally agree with this. I can't figure her out anymore. At least Mark's calmed down and isn't running around scowling anymore.

I have to agree Imisspadfoot, I think Frost is going to tell Charlie "I'm a going to call your Dad while we sit here". I think then Frost will deliver a message regarding Demetri and then put Charlie on the phone. Mark won't know where Olivia is and will assume the worst. Frost is trying to maneuver Mark into doing what he wants him to do. The last thing Frost needs is to be dealing with a kidnapped child. He's running for his life.
I didn't think about him wanting to get a message through Charlile to Mark but this makes sense. I do think he's taking a heck of a chance with Dim in the car but it could be that the Liv's bodyguard is actually in his employ.

Maybe Frost is trying to draw the major players into one area. Remember... the season finale isn't far away. :) I'm sure Dyson's "master plan" is soon to be revealed. i also think that he was pulling Dimitri out of danger. He wants to avoid both of them dying for some reason. I think he may be trying to create an alternate timeline.

:shrug:

Wait... remember how strangely cool Janis was at the wedding? I think she's the one who's supposed to pop Dimitri.

Maybe Frost is trying to draw the major players into one area. Remember... the season finale isn't far away. :) I'm sure Dyson's "master plan" is soon to be revealed. i also think that he was pulling Dimitri out of danger. He wants to avoid both of them dying for some reason. I think he may be trying to create an alternate timeline.

:shrug:

Wait... remember how strangely cool Janis was at the wedding? I think she's the one who's supposed to pop Dimitri.

Remember though from episode 110 of A561984:

NHADRA: It will be your gun, Agent Benford, and you will pull the trigger and then again and then again.

And I believe Dem will survive to stick around.

Remember though from episode 110 of A561984:



And I believe Dem will survive to stick around.

Yes, but it doesn't add up. Why then does Mark have full movement in his office. Why isn't he locked up or his badge removed? I don't think it's him pulling the trigger.

Yes, but it doesn't add up. Why then does Mark have full movement in his office. Why isn't he locked up or his badge removed? I don't think it's him pulling the trigger.

My answer there would be that somehow in that iteration Mark hadn't shot Demetri perhaps and it is what will happen on D-day.

MH - I am truly starting to understand your theory, however it makes the show impossible to watch! If I can never know which iteration I am watching or when I am seeing something that "could" have happened but didn't and something that "should" have happened but didn't and something that did happen and will stay put - that is too confusing.
What makes this show interesting is using the clues to build up to the conclusion, if I find out that half of the clues I have been given are useless - again this would be more frustrating than intriguing.
From my understanding, we were told that we wouldn't be shown any "false" FF. However, to show a FF that was simply "an iteration that didn't happen" - that to me is the same thing as a false FF
I am okay with a FF being changed because people are using that new knowledge to create a new future or to make the FF come true, however, being shown a FF and then being told "just kidding, that was simply a possible iteration out of millions of possible iterations" - it becomes a bit too sci-fi at that point. I had been viewing this more of a detective story with a sci-fi twist (sort of like 4400), not a sci-fi story with a detective twist (like Dr. Who). It also wasn't marketed as a sci-fi and I just haven't been in a sci-fi mind frame. So, I am hoping we weren't duped in the "you won't see a fake FF" and I think the "it was a possible FF out of millions of other possible FF and you may be seeing a completely different FF at any time and you just have to accept that, and by the way - we may throw in 5 or 10 other possible FF" - too much disconnection for 8:00 on a Thursday night. If nothing else, I think we really need to have some clarity on "what" we are watching some time soon so folks like me can stop being frustrated when characters do things that make absolutely no sense.

MH - I am truly starting to understand your theory, however it makes the show impossible to watch! If I can never know which iteration I am watching or when I am seeing something that "could" have happened but didn't and something that "should" have happened but didn't and something that did happen and will stay put - that is too confusing.
What makes this show interesting is using the clues to build up to the conclusion, if I find out that half of the clues I have been given are useless - again this would be more frustrating than intriguing.
From my understanding, we were told that we wouldn't be shown any "false" FF. However, to show a FF that was simply "an iteration that didn't happen" - that to me is the same thing as a false FF
I am okay with a FF being changed because people are using that new knowledge to create a new future or to make the FF come true, however, being shown a FF and then being told "just kidding, that was simply a possible iteration out of millions of possible iterations" - it becomes a bit too sci-fi at that point. I had been viewing this more of a detective story with a sci-fi twist (sort of like 4400), not a sci-fi story with a detective twist (like Dr. Who). It also wasn't marketed as a sci-fi and I just haven't been in a sci-fi mind frame. So, I am hoping we weren't duped in the "you won't see a fake FF" and I think the "it was a possible FF out of millions of other possible FF and you may be seeing a completely different FF at any time and you just have to accept that, and by the way - we may throw in 5 or 10 other possible FF" - too much disconnection for 8:00 on a Thursday night. If nothing else, I think we really need to have some clarity on "what" we are watching some time soon so folks like me can stop being frustrated when characters do things that make absolutely no sense.


Everything I have come up with is from following the clues in a detective frame of mind. The non-linear events are also puzzles and to solve them you just have to accept something that is currently being discussed in quantum physics. For example, what we might think of as "science fiction" (and even when this show was being written up a year or two ago) of Quantum Entanglement has been found in a laboratory last year (!). So while the flashforwards are the sci-fi element there is real science underpinning the series.

On the matter of the flashforwards, they won't be lying to us per se. Simon is probably the case where we were lied to but it wasn't the PTB so much as we were lied to by Simon (through the PTB) and anyone he told his FF to. We were all duped by Simon as it was his cover story and had to stay for a time behind the 4th wall.We know about Simon's secret but those around Simon don't know yet. With the other flashforwards we'll get a spin on them that may alter the context as a surprise but they will still be true to the visions from a certain perspective. I think David S. Goyer was going to wait until April 29 to reveal Nicole being delusional about being drowned but the network perhaps made them give up a few of the reveals early but how am I to know. That's a supposition of mine and we'll just have to see what happens.