I posted about this last week, but people didn't seem into talking about it. Claire's statement to Jack regarding the fact that they were with him because they had heard him speak seemed pretty huge to me.

Hows about you?

Wait. Where is Miles?

I remember - he's with Ben and Richard. Hmmm

It's an interesting idea and would give some S6 relevance to Miles.

As far as I can tell, he is the only one who hasn't heard Flocke speak. It has to be significant...

did Sayid hear him speak before he stabbed him?

I don;t think Locke can be killed by regular means at all....

Sayid did.

"Hello Sayid."
Knife!

Miles is the only regular character to not hear him speak. It might prove valuable down the road.

I read your thread last week and kinda went, "Huh," to myself. I actually went and looked up screencaps because I was sure Miles heard Flocke at the temple when he went all Smokie on everyone. But you're right. I wasn't sure what to make of it last week. But with Claire's comment and looking back at Dogen's statement to Sayid that "If you let him speak it's already too late," (paraphrasing), you may well be on to something.

Yes I think this will be Miles be play in the denouement. But Flocke's power are somewhat attenuated as Sawyer was able to act independently. By taking the boat he and ultimately splitting the group neither of Flocke's key criteria are met - he needs a boat to traverse water and he needs the whole gang to Fly United.

the whole MIB speaking and make you "with him" thing is getting me a bit confused. I'm wondering if it's still being meant in the figurative sense, as in, he is a very convincing wordsmith, or in the literal sense, as in, as soon as he speaks, he somehow takes control of you.

If Dogen was telling the truth, then I guess the only way to really kill him would be in his sleep, but I don't think Smokie sleeps.

the whole MIB speaking and make you "with him" thing is getting me a bit confused. I'm wondering if it's still being meant in the figurative sense, as in, he is a very convincing wordsmith, or in the literal sense, as in, as soon as he speaks, he somehow takes control of you.

me too. Is it because MIB can be reasonable,concerned, even kind at times (telling the children they would be OK for example) or is he emitting some sonic waves that get in your head or something.

Sawyer has been the subject of several MiB monologues plus a guided cave tour and he hasn't drunk a drop of the Kool-Aid. So I think that's just Claire's craziness speaking.

Cardie

the whole MIB speaking and make you "with him" thing is getting me a bit confused. I'm wondering if it's still being meant in the figurative sense, as in, he is a very convincing wordsmith, or in the literal sense, as in, as soon as he speaks, he somehow takes control of you.Remember, though, as the OP mentioned, it was Claire we heard it from tonight. And she's freakin' bonkers. Remember, also, that TPTB like the play the undependable expositor game. Anytime a character delivers up a piece of information, we should always ask, "why would that character have dependable information?"

the whole MIB speaking and make you "with him" thing is getting me a bit confused. I'm wondering if it's still being meant in the figurative sense, as in, he is a very convincing wordsmith, or in the literal sense, as in, as soon as he speaks, he somehow takes control of you.

I've thought this all along, and I think Sayid's possible return to sanity in tonight's episode exemplifies that fact. Flocke is very convincing, he seems honest, and he makes very tempting offers. However, Flocke's siren song doesn't seem to be permanent...once Desmond questioned Sayid about how his reuniting with Nadia would go down, it now seems possible that he's snapped out of his spell. If that can happen to the "zombie" Sayid, I think it can happen to anyone.

Sawyer has been the subject of several MiB monologues plus a guided cave tour and he hasn't drunk a drop of the Kool-Aid. So I think that's just Claire's craziness speaking.

Cardie

True but maybe that's more of a testament to something special about Sawyer than there not being any truth to the concept.

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

That'd be a stretch... but entertaining as heck to see play out. :)

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

I'm not sure I expect to see it happen, but that would be so cool!

I hope this whole speaking thing is not literal. It is just a little too much hocus pocus for my liking. I'd prefer if it was just in the sense that Flocke is really good at convincing people and manipulating them with words. However, the scene with Sayid seems to point to a literal interpretation...

And can Flocke read minds and thoughts while not in smokey form? If so, then he would have known Sawyer's plan and Sayid's lie. Maybe he knows but he has to let their free will playout. Or he doesn't know until he changed form. Any thoughts?

the whole MIB speaking and make you "with him" thing is getting me a bit confused. I'm wondering if it's still being meant in the figurative sense, as in, he is a very convincing wordsmith, or in the literal sense, as in, as soon as he speaks, he somehow takes control of you.

I had taken it in the figurative sense considering that MiB said the same to Richard when he was going to talk to Jacob. I don't think that based on the things we've been shown that the MiB can just speak to you and then you're unable to kill him. I think Dogen just knew that the MiB could seduce him with the dark side, as it were.

I had taken it in the figurative sense considering that MiB said the same to Richard when he was going to talk to Jacob. I don't think that based on the things we've been shown that the MiB can just speak to you and then you're unable to kill him. I think Dogen just knew that the MiB could seduce him with the dark side, as it were.

Then how do you explain what happened to Sayid? Flocke said 2 words to Sayid and then Sayid promptly stabbed him in the heart with the special knife. Flocke wasn't phased one bit. This would point to a more literal meaning...right?

By taking the boat he and ultimately splitting the group neither of Flocke's key criteria are met - he needs a boat to traverse water and he needs the whole gang to Fly United.
Unless Flocke wanted Sawyer to think that, and Sawyer played right into his hands.♠

The whole "don't let him talk to you" must be significant in some way. Everyone was given the same warning before they attempted to kill MiB or Jacob - Richard, Ben, Sayid....

But Jacob did talk to Ben....

I think the idea that Miles hasn't heard MIB talk could be a very interesting twist and give a little more signifigance to the season than just listening to ashes.
Unfortunately, unless Ben and Rchard start talking about this anomoly around Miles, he won't know he might have the key to getting rid of Flocke/MIB!!
I also think that Claire and Sayid are beginning to fight out of the fog that Flocke has them wrapped in. This would give Jack potential allies in the Flocke camp.
Hopefully, Jack can hold on to his wits enough to remember why he swam back to the Island.

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

As much as I want LOCKE to come back and take over FLOCKE... I'd LOVE to see this!

Unless Flocke wanted Sawyer to think that, and Sawyer played right into his hands.♠

But Flocke has been telling everyone that in order to return it must be everyone....otherwise why wouldn't Flocke have left already. There is something very real and complicated to the uncorking of MIB and Flocke has been try to rearrange the deck chairs to get everyone on board...

Sawyer has been the subject of several MiB monologues plus a guided cave tour and he hasn't drunk a drop of the Kool-Aid. So I think that's just Claire's craziness speaking.

Cardie

Unless current candidates are immune...and Claire isn't a candidate anymore...

-ik

What about when Claire and Lock were in the cabin with Mr Sheppard? Was'nt she all "I'm with him?"

If Dogen was telling the truth, then I guess the only way to really kill him would be in his sleep, but I don't think Smokie sleeps.

But he drinks.

Well, maybe he is doing it just to show some human side.

Someone find some earplugs - stat!

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

Great to see others thinking like me. That scene would involve good writing, consistency between the current season and seasons long past, and indicate that someone was planning ahead at some point. Which is why I would be shocked if this actually happened.

I've posted this elsewhere before, but I still think that Walt is going to come back and be the one to kill Flocke. If you have to kill someone before they can speak to you using a knife, your best chance is when they are sleeping, and barring that, throwing a knife at them, which Locke taught Walt how to do in season 1.

That's really awesome! A fun idea. I don't think they would do it, but that would be really awesome!:rolleyes: