OK given how things have turned out.......why did Ben kill Locke? Is it possible that while he knows about Jacob....that Ben may know little if anything about MiB? If he knew abotu MiB and knew what he was then why would he kill Locked and insist on the body being brought back if he knew MiB would need the dead body to take a form?

Eloise Hawking is the one that said they had to recreate Flight 815 and that Locke was to be the proxy for Christian (right down to telling Jack that Locke's body needed something of Christian's for the return flight which is why Jack put the shoes on him). Whether Ben was already in contact with Eloise prior to Locke's death, I don't believe we know. It may have been Eloise who convinced Ben that he needed to kill Locke.

I don't think Ben knew anything about MiB.

See I agree completely that Ben knew nothing about MiB. It was Locke mentioning Eloise that prompted the strangulation. Im not convinced Eloise doesnt know anything about MiB. For that matter earlier in Season 5 why is it so important to Widmore that Locke go back for the "war" that is coming? Especially given it turns out that Widmore and Flocke are on opposite sides of the war.

"Why is it so important to Widmore that Locke go back for the "war" that is coming? Especially given it turns out that Widmore and Flocke are on opposite sides of the war."

Dude, good call, I had forgotten some of that conversation. Maybe Charles knows MiB needs a body in order to be killed and he knew what Locke needed to hear. I just hope Locke comes back.

See I agree completely that Ben knew nothing about MiB. It was Locke mentioning Eloise that prompted the strangulation. Im not convinced Eloise doesnt know anything about MiB. For that matter earlier in Season 5 why is it so important to Widmore that Locke go back for the "war" that is coming? Especially given it turns out that Widmore and Flocke are on opposite sides of the war.

Well Whidmore wanted him to go back 'or else the wrong side would win' or something to that effect and Whidmore DIDNT want him to die

I think Ben's completely in the know. MIB needed someone off-island to help him kill Jacob. Who better than Eloise Hawking, a compromised Other who accidentally killed her own son? No doubt MIB promised her she could be with Daniel again. Ben needed the name of the off-island contact to make sure things went according to plan.

So why play along? Why kill Locke and have MIB take his body? Probably because Ben's under orders from Jacob to 1) make sure the MIB is done with and 2) Jacob finds his successor. I think Ben's incredibly important and there's a reason he's been downplayed in the final season only to make a triumphant return in the final episodes.

"How many times do I have to tell you, John? I always have a plan."

That made me think... did they ever mention who Sayid killed for Ben off-island?

From The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. Ben stops Locke from killing himself and says he shot Abaddon because Abaddon would have killed Locke at some point. Why kill Locke having (allegedly) attempted to twice save him?

BEN: John... you can't die. You've got too much work to do. We've gotta get you back to that Island so that you can do it.
BEN: Please, John. Come on.
BEN: Come down.
BEN: I know we can do this, John.
BEN: You haven't even been to Sun yet. Let's start with her.
LOCKE: No. I... [Sniffles] I promised Jin that I wouldn't bring her back.
BEN: Jin is alive?
LOCKE: Yeah. Yeah. But he didn't want her to know. He--he wanted me to tell her that his... that his body washed up on the beach. And, uh, he gave me his wedding ring to prove it.
BEN: All right.
BEN: A promise is a promise.
LOCKE: Thank you. [Cries]
BEN: You're welcome. Come on.
[Whispers indistinctly]
BEN: [Whispers] Let's go. [Normal voice] I know we can do this.
[Locke grunts.]
BEN: Once we can get them all in the same place... I don't know where we go from there, but we'll figure something out.
[B]LOCKE: I know where we go. There's a woman here in Los Angeles.
BEN: A woman?
LOCKE: Yeah, I don't know exactly where, but she shouldn't be that hard to find. Her name is--is, uh... Eloise Hawking.
BEN: Eloise Hawking? You sure?
LOCKE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, why? Do you know her?
BEN: Yes, John. I know her.
[Grunting]
LOCKE: Aah!
Once Ben had the information he needed, Locke could die and become a part of the plan to return the O6 to the island, for whatever undisclosed reason Ben had for doing so.

Ben simply killed Locke for the same reason he let Alex get shot, because he wanted to remain leader of the others on the island. Then after Locke was dead he talked to Hawking and found out he'd need to take his body with him to get back to the island.

That made me think... did they ever mention who Sayid killed for Ben off-island?

He was killing associates of Charles Widmore.

See I agree completely that Ben knew nothing about MiB. It was Locke mentioning Eloise that prompted the strangulation. Im not convinced Eloise doesnt know anything about MiB. For that matter earlier in Season 5 why is it so important to Widmore that Locke go back for the "war" that is coming? Especially given it turns out that Widmore and Flocke are on opposite sides of the war.

Yes, it appears that Ellie has always had more knowledge than anyone else. She knows about Smokey (as much as anyone can). On the other hand, Ben actually thought that Jacob lived in the cabin and that he could ask Smokey for help via talking through the ancient drain.

Ben simply killed Locke for the same reason he let Alex get shot, because he wanted to remain leader of the others on the island. Then after Locke was dead he talked to Hawking and found out he'd need to take his body with him to get back to the island.

Agree 100%. It was a jealous reaction as soon as he heard the name. I believe that its possible that Ellie and/or Charles is still the legitimate leader of the others and Ben usurped the position.

From The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. Ben stops Locke from killing himself and says he shot Abaddon because Abaddon would have killed Locke at some point. Why kill Locke having (allegedly) attempted to twice save him?

Once Ben had the information he needed, Locke could die and become a part of the plan to return the O6 to the island, for whatever undisclosed reason Ben had for doing so.

The information that Ben needed from Locke was the information about Jin. Ben didn't know that Jin was still alive, and when Locke showed him Jin's wedding ring, he knew he had locked up a way to get Sun back to the island. Locke had also promised Jin that he would not bring Sun back to the island - another reason why Ben could have killed him.

Ben and Eloise seemed to have already been aquainted with each other when the met up at the end of "This Place Is Death":


BEN: Hello, Eloise.
[Eloise lights a candle and turns to face them.]
ELOISE: Hello, Benjamin. [The group stares at her, as she surveys them.] I thought I said all of them.
BEN: This is all I could get on short notice.
ELOISE: [Sighs] Well, I suppose it will have to do for now. All right! Let's get started.

I recently watched "Journey In Time" which was a recap narrated by D & C. When Ben found out that Locke knew how to get in touch with Eloise Hawking and she knew how to get back to the island Ben strangled Locke.

Just before Ben turned the FDW, Ben convinced Locke that Locke was the newly appointed leader. Of course Ben lied when told Locke that whoever leaves the island can't return. Ben wanted to regain his position as leader of the Others on the island. According to D & C, this is the reason Ben strangled and killed Locke.

The information that Ben needed from Locke was the information about Jin. Ben didn't know that Jin was still alive, and when Locke showed him Jin's wedding ring, he knew he had locked up a way to get Sun back to the island. Locke had also promised Jin that he would not bring Sun back to the island - another reason why Ben could have killed him.

Ben and Eloise seemed to have already been aquainted with each other when the met up at the end of "This Place Is Death":
I don't believe Ben and Eloise spoke to each other off the Island until after Ben killed Locke. They did meet before Ben found Jack at the funeral parlor, we saw Ben speaking with Eloise at the end of "The Lie". But I think Ben was only at the funeral parlor to get Locke's body because Eloise told him that it was needed for the Island to bring them back.
Ben needed the information about Eloise and once he had it he killed Locke.

I don't believe Ben and Eloise spoke to each other off the Island until after Ben killed Locke. They did meet before Ben found Jack at the funeral parlor, we saw Ben speaking with Eloise at the end of "The Lie". But I think Ben was only at the funeral parlor to get Locke's body because Eloise told him that it was needed for the Island to bring them back.
Ben needed the information about Eloise and once he had it he killed Locke.

I guess I'm just confused then because all Locke told him was that he was supposed to find a woman in Los Angeles named Eloise Hawking, and that he didn't know where to find her. Ben told Locke that he knew her right before he strangled Locke. And then Ben knew where to find her. So I thought the bigger news for Ben was the news about Jin.

But yours make sense too, but only if Ben has never turned the Donkey wheel before. If he hasn't, he wouldn't necessarily know how to get back to the island without the help of Eloise. Oh Ben, you are such a liar, you said you couldn't go back to the island if you moved the island.....

The information that Ben needed from Locke was the information about Jin. Ben didn't know that Jin was still alive, and when Locke showed him Jin's wedding ring, he knew he had locked up a way to get Sun back to the island. Locke had also promised Jin that he would not bring Sun back to the island - another reason why Ben could have killed him.

Ben and Eloise seemed to have already been aquainted with each other when the met up at the end of "This Place Is Death":

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it gave Ben reason to kill Locke. I'm more convinced by the idea that Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it gave Ben reason to kill Locke. I'm more convinced by the idea that Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise.

That's a very interesting point of view. That makes A LOT more sense to me - That Ben killed Locke to keep something from happening. (Locke meeting Eloise) This makes killing Locke seem more like it was part of an agenda, than just some random act.

That's a very interesting point of view. That makes A LOT more sense to me - That Ben killed Locke to keep something from happening. (Locke meeting Eloise) This makes killing Locke seem more like it was part of an agenda, than just some random act.

As was said by the man himself, Ben always has a plan. I imagine the same can also be said of Eloise.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it gave Ben reason to kill Locke. I'm more convinced by the idea that Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise.

Your right, Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise because he didn't want Locke to find out how to get back to the island. Ben wanted to resume his position as leader of the Others and he didn't want Locke interfering. When Locke left the island to bring the Losties back, he thought he was the new leader.

I guess I'm just confused then because all Locke told him was that he was supposed to find a woman in Los Angeles named Eloise Hawking, and that he didn't know where to find her. Ben told Locke that he knew her right before he strangled Locke. And then Ben knew where to find her. So I thought the bigger news for Ben was the news about Jin.

But yours make sense too, but only if Ben has never turned the Donkey wheel before. If he hasn't, he wouldn't necessarily know how to get back to the island without the help of Eloise. Oh Ben, you are such a liar, you said you couldn't go back to the island if you moved the island.....
I see what you're saying, but I don't think it gave Ben reason to kill Locke. I'm more convinced by the idea that Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise.
That's a very interesting point of view. That makes A LOT more sense to me - That Ben killed Locke to keep something from happening. (Locke meeting Eloise) This makes killing Locke seem more like it was part of an agenda, than just some random act.
Your right, Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise because he didn't want Locke to find out how to get back to the island. Ben wanted to resume his position as leader of the Others and he didn't want Locke interfering. When Locke left the island to bring the Losties back, he thought he was the new leader.



[/quote]
I really think Ben believed that he couldn't go back to the Island if he turned the FDW.
"There's No Place Like Home"
BEN: I hope you're happy now, Jacob.
[Leaning hard into one of the handles, he tries to turn the wheel but it does not budge an inch, so he retrieves the crowbar from the ground and begins breaking the ice away from the top of the wheel. After clearing the ice, he slides the crowbar into a hole at the end of one of the handles and uses it for leverage as he desperately tries to get the wheel to move. With a rumble and a lurch, the wheel moves forward a few inches. Ben throws down the crowbar, then wraps both arms around the handle and begins pushing with all his might. The wheel slowly begins to turn, making loud creaking noises as it does. What sounds like a motor of some kind can be heard revving up.]
[Back in the icy room, Ben continues with his task. His breaths are shaky and his feet slide on the floor as he pushes at the slowly turning wheel. Through the hole in the wall where the wheel goes, a light begins to glow as the sound of the revving engine builds. Tears break out on Ben's face and the light grows brighter. Steam coming through the hole glows brightly against the dark backdrop of the rocky wall beneath it. Ben sobs freely now as he finishes pushing the handle all the way to the wall. The sound continues to build and the brightness grows until it reaches a peak and Ben is swallowed by the light.]Why would he be crying? There was no one to see him and I'm sure he wasn't doing it for the benefit of Jacob or the Island, he was crying because he truly believed he would never be ale to go back to the Island.

I'm sure Ben knew who Eloise was. Eloise was the leader of the Others when Ben got shot by Sayid and brought to the Temple to be saved. We still don't know how long it was that Eloise stayed on the Island but she definitely knew what kind of person Ben was.
"316"
JACK: What is this place?
MS. HAWKING: The Dharma Initiative called it the Lamppost. [pauses] This is how they found the island.
[The view changes so we are looking down at the group through the opening in the ceiling.]
LOST logo
[Ms. Hawking walks away from the group. Jack looks to Ben.]
JACK: Did you know about this place?
BEN: No. No I didn't.
JACK: [to Ms. Hawking] Is he telling the truth?
MS. HAWKING: Probably not.But I do not think Ben knew that Eloise was the person who could tell him how to get back to the Island until Locke told him.

Richard had traveled back and forth from the Island before Eloise was ever at the "Lamppost" so I still think there was another way back and Richard and probably certain Others know how to do it.

You're right Ben didn't want Locke to meet Eloise but that's only because Ben didn't want Locke to go back to the Island. Because Ben was jealous of Locke and he still wanted to be the leader of the Others.

The only person Ben ever spoke to before he killed Locke was Sayid and there was never any conversation between them about going back to the Island until after he killed Locke and I think after he first spoke to Eloise.
I think after Ben killed Locke he went and spoke with Eloise and Eloise told him that the only way he could get back to the Island was if he brought all of the O6 back with him.
If he could have gone back to the Island without them he would have gone back in a flash.

I can follow that logic, NBC, and can certainly tailor my thinking in that direction. I never thought that Ben didn't know about her at all until that moment, because we know she and Charles were on-island when Ben was a kid.