Yup, I said it. All that fake sorrow, admitting to the experiment to gain sympathy. We know Simon was duped into participating, but Lloyd has been shady this entire time. Leaving his wife because their son was autistic, knowing there was going to be another FF and not saying anything, kissing the wife of the man who saved you butt - Lloyd is Dr. Evil :biggrin:

That is why he said Frost was "Bad".

intriguing thoughts. I would actually LOVE it if this happened, because it would be kind of a blindside. We've been lead this whole time to view Lloyd as kind of a sympathetic character, but you make some really good points about why he is so not.

It's interesting that you bring up Dylan who is autistic because there is a pretty significant link between autism and savant syndrome. It appears that savants were being experimented on in the Raven River experiments, maybe Lloyd was involved before Dylan was born but once he was born he couldn't continue.

Or something.

I think it is a good way to resolve tonight's new information but I see Lloyd as a pawn. A valuable pawn but still a pawn.
Regardless, I like to see different ideas as we can all consider the possibilities.

I think it is a good way to resolve tonight's new information but I see Lloyd as a pawn. A valuable pawn but still a pawn.
Regardless, I like to see different ideas as we can all consider the possibilities.


I put this forth in another thread, but here is what I think (for the next 6 days anyway) around the Lloyd story:

1. He lied about him leaving his wife. I think his wife left him and took Dylan because she found out Lloyd was using Dylan for experimentation. Only after she died was he able to get his hands back on Dylan.
2. Lloyd "thought" he was in the inner circle, just like Frost thought he had some sort of control. When the FF took place and Lloyd actually "had" a FF, he realized that he wasn't as high up in the organization as he imagined himself to be. That is why he went public with the experiments, to say "game on" to the larger organization. He still doesn't realize Simon didn't have a FF, so doesn't realize Simon was more valuable to the organization that he was.
3. Lloyd is using Olivia just to get the formula. Olivia has the deep feelings for Lloyd, however, when they first met, Lloyd didn't even know who she was. Even during their FF, Olivia is all googly eyed while Lloyd could care less. I think in the course of events that "would" have led to the FF being true, Lloyd would have tricked Olivia into having an affair. We are assuming the formula came from Lloyd. I don't think it did, I think the formula came from Olivia. She either steals if from Mark, or maybe he convinces her to using her 'doctor surgery powers" to get the formula out of the head of a character who is a savant or even Dylan.
4. I theorize that in Queen Sacrifice, we assumed the Queen was either Marcie or Janis, now I think it might have been Olivia. Olivia is going to continue believing she is in love with Lloyd and she is going to have to make a choice on who she saves - either Mark or Lloyd. Frost says she chooses Mark, but then he died - so I don't really trust his judgement all that much :biggrin:

Dem is a big "wild card" now - as he is on the same level as Simon, having had no blackout. What makes it particularly "interesting" is that while Simon was involved in Lloyds FF, Dem wasn't involved in anyone else's FF that we know of. Dem could be anywhere, with anyone come the "big day". Mark better hope Dem is hiding behind his door with his four guns when the 2 gunmen come in!

I put this forth in another thread, but here is what I think (for the next 6 days anyway) around the Lloyd story:

1. He lied about him leaving his wife. I think his wife left him and took Dylan because she found out Lloyd was using Dylan for experimentation. Only after she died was he able to get his hands back on Dylan.
2. Lloyd "thought" he was in the inner circle, just like Frost thought he had some sort of control. When the FF took place and Lloyd actually "had" a FF, he realized that he wasn't as high up in the organization as he imagined himself to be. That is why he went public with the experiments, to say "game on" to the larger organization. He still doesn't realize Simon didn't have a FF, so doesn't realize Simon was more valuable to the organization that he was.
3. Lloyd is using Olivia just to get the formula. Olivia has the deep feelings for Lloyd, however, when they first met, Lloyd didn't even know who she was. Even during their FF, Olivia is all googly eyed while Lloyd could care less. I think in the course of events that "would" have led to the FF being true, Lloyd would have tricked Olivia into having an affair. We are assuming the formula came from Lloyd. I don't think it did, I think the formula came from Olivia. She either steals if from Mark, or maybe he convinces her to using her 'doctor surgery powers" to get the formula out of the head of a character who is a savant or even Dylan.
4. I theorize that in Queen Sacrifice, we assumed the Queen was either Marcie or Janis, now I think it might have been Olivia. Olivia is going to continue believing she is in love with Lloyd and she is going to have to make a choice on who she saves - either Mark or Lloyd. Frost says she chooses Mark, but then he died - so I don't really trust his judgement all that much :biggrin:

Dem is a big "wild card" now - as he is on the same level as Simon, having had no blackout. What makes it particularly "interesting" is that while Simon was involved in Lloyds FF, Dem wasn't involved in anyone else's FF that we know of. Dem could be anywhere, with anyone come the "big day". Mark better hope Dem is hiding behind his door with his four guns when the 2 gunmen come in!

What if Dem is one of the guys wearing the masks, hmm? Like you said, he is now a wild card. :biggrin:

It's interesting that you bring up Dylan who is autistic because there is a pretty significant link between autism and savant syndrome. It appears that savants were being experimented on in the Raven River experiments, maybe Lloyd was involved before Dylan was born but once he was born he couldn't continue.

Or something.

Yes, there is definitely a link or connection with the savant being introduced to the plot and Dylan being autistic. There are different types of autism and I don't recall if we've learned what type Dylan has. Not all autistic persons have savant syndrome and not all persons with savant syndrome have autistic disorder.

Savant syndrome is not a recognized medical diagnosis, but considered a rare condition in which persons with developmental disorders have one or more areas of expertise, ability, or brilliance that are in contrast with the individual's overall limitations. The condition can be genetic, but can also be acquired.

I'm not ready to say Lloyd is the "bad guy" but another gifted scientist who's been exploited for their knowledge. It's very possible that Lloyd took an interest in the Raven River experiments because Dylan was autistic or the disorder was genetic in Lloyd's family. But, from the little we know about the RR experiment, Lloyd could also have been involved before Dylan was born.
100%
What if Dem is one of the guys wearing the masks, hmm? Like you said, he is now a wild card. :biggrin:


Why would Dem want to kill Mark after Mark saved his life? :confused:

I have kind of felt that Lloyd is not as heroic as he's been made out to be since early on in this series. It hasn't been anything based on facts, just more of a gut feeling I suppose. Since the whole Olivia thing has taken place though... it's pretty much cemented itself in my mind. Why would a guy who supposedly is falling in love with a woman get satisfaction out of nearly forcing her to cheat on her husband? She was in tears as they kissed. It doesn't sit right with me. Lloyd's a scumbag. :)

Why would Dem want to kill Mark after Mark saved his life? :confused:

Ah, a bit of misdirection from me perhaps. :rolleyes:

I didn't say he was going to kill Mark, but Mark has to be convinced he'll die in order to make it easier for him to commit to being in the office at 10pm. He already knows that there will be more GBOs and many will die if a way to shield people is not found. Mark knows that for the formula to be brought together Lloyd and Olivia must be in the bedroom as their visions foresaw. Combining the need for the greater good to see that future through and what Mark saw of his odds not looking too good and now of Charlie saying she heard her father was dead will probably set those events in motion.

It also is a way to reconcile the ridiculous situation of Stan still finding himself and agent Rafalski in the bathroom and Vreede still leaving at 10pm. It's as if everyone is clearing out just to leave Mark alone.

I put this forth in another thread, but here is what I think (for the next 6 days anyway) around the Lloyd story:

1. He lied about him leaving his wife. I think his wife left him and took Dylan because she found out Lloyd was using Dylan for experimentation. Only after she died was he able to get his hands back on Dylan.
2. Lloyd "thought" he was in the inner circle, just like Frost thought he had some sort of control. When the FF took place and Lloyd actually "had" a FF, he realized that he wasn't as high up in the organization as he imagined himself to be. That is why he went public with the experiments, to say "game on" to the larger organization. He still doesn't realize Simon didn't have a FF, so doesn't realize Simon was more valuable to the organization that he was.
3. Lloyd is using Olivia just to get the formula. Olivia has the deep feelings for Lloyd, however, when they first met, Lloyd didn't even know who she was. Even during their FF, Olivia is all googly eyed while Lloyd could care less. I think in the course of events that "would" have led to the FF being true, Lloyd would have tricked Olivia into having an affair. We are assuming the formula came from Lloyd. I don't think it did, I think the formula came from Olivia. She either steals if from Mark, or maybe he convinces her to using her 'doctor surgery powers" to get the formula out of the head of a character who is a savant or even Dylan.
4. I theorize that in Queen Sacrifice, we assumed the Queen was either Marcie or Janis, now I think it might have been Olivia. Olivia is going to continue believing she is in love with Lloyd and she is going to have to make a choice on who she saves - either Mark or Lloyd. Frost says she chooses Mark, but then he died - so I don't really trust his judgement all that much :biggrin:
That is actually brilliant. One of my favourite theories so far. I agree about the FF, Olivia IS all adoring and he's like "yeah, Im on the phone." :laugh: I would LOVE if this happened!

I'm not ready to say Lloyd is the "bad guy" but another gifted scientist who's been exploited for their knowledge. It's very possible that Lloyd took an interest in the Raven River experiments because Dylan was autistic or the disorder was genetic in Lloyd's family. But, from the little we know about the RR experiment, Lloyd could also have been involved before Dylan was born.
It had to have been WAY before Dylan was born, as Frost said it happened in the 80's. :) I like the idea that Lloyd was involved though.