Or get back to it, or believe that it was the "right" universe, or any of that stuff?

I mean... plain and simple, the Island universe has been freaking horrible for all of the characters. That point was sort of hammered in even more this episode.

Everyone dies, is torn from their loved ones, or is in agony or trauma of some kind.

Who even cares if "that thing" escapes, everything in the world ceases to exist? Everyone is dying regardless! Who would even want to live after going through all that? These people have seen more carnage and suffering than most soldiers at this point!

What exactly is so wrong with the FS universe that it could possibly be worse for these characters than what is going on in the Island one?

Let's just look at Jack as an example. If I'm him: my wife divorced me, my only other love interest somewhat despises me, my father was an emotionally abusive drunk who had a second family and drank himself to death because he couldn't deal with me, my only sibling is an insane woman and hates me because I've abandoned her several times and is so desperate that she is forced to hang out with a "demon." What the crap do I care what happens to anything in the outside world? The outside world is already dead to me. I saw as much when I went back there. In fact it was so bad I came back to craphole Island where I am constantly attacked and put in horrible life-threatening situations and emotionally crippling disasters.

Well, I guess the FS world is similar for Jack, except at least I get along with my creepy looking kid and my half-sister, so you know, there are people I care about and who care about me. Plus I'm not a complete emotionally and mentally unstable trainwreck.

Anyways, I've meandered off my main point with this Jack example, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. Which is, the Island universe is god fracking awful for these characters, by any standard.

If Desmond came waltzing over to me just to rip me out of my nice, comfortable, satisfying life, just to remind me of the past life where I got tortured, manipulated, battered, and dejected, I think I would punch him in his smug face.
Is it just pure luck that these characters are only "remembering" the happy times from the Island universe? That Hurley remembers his kiss with Libby, but he conveniently doesn't remember the next day when she gets shot by an insane guy yelling WAAAAAAAALT?
It feels like Desmond is leaping before he looks and being very naive. Like he doesn't know what he's getting in to. These people are in for a world of hurt.

I agree. These lives, whether they are the real ones or not, are not worth a two week old stepped on piece of Hubba Bubba. I hate the FS stuff, but I hope that the characters all end up over there instead of a few over here.

I'm starting to think that Jack will be the only one left alive to care about it the original universe, at least on-island. The only way to save everyone will be to save the parallel.

Perhaps it will be resolved this way: if they save the day in the horrible original timeline, everything will stay wonderful in the alt timeline. Or maybe the writers are cooking up an even bigger twist for what the whole meaning of all this pain and death really was. That's kind of what I'm hoping for.

"Thats why its called a leap of faith, jack"

- John Locke

I've not really thought this through, so sorry if it doesn't go anywhere:

With the pace the flash sideways has been moving so far vs. the short time left on the show, I don't see how they can bring that story to a conclusion that affects the "main" story, and then have the "main" story be the end. Unless there's some kind of awkward Twilight-Zone style reason revealed why the FS is so terrible, I can't see why the characters would try to get back to (or remember) the main storyline, especially given that a lot of them are now dead in it.

This is what has made me feel like the FS is going to be some sort of epilogue for the show from about the 3rd or 4th episode of this season, which feels kinda off to me, as it's almost like saying the bulk of the show didn't really happen. I really hope they find a satisfying way of bringing it together at the end.

This is what has made me feel like the FS is going to be some sort of epilogue for the show from about the 3rd or 4th episode of this season, which feels kinda off to me, as it's almost like saying the bulk of the show didn't really happen. I really hope they find a satisfying way of bringing it together at the end.


Thats my only reason why I don't know if I want the FS universe to be the one they end up in at the end. I dont see how people dont consider that to be the equivalent of waking up from a dream ending? The only way I would be ok with that personally is if they remember every single thing that happened to them on the island. If our original timeline just vanishes and they go on living their normal lives in the FS universe...that would be such a waste and feel as if none of the 5 yrs before this one mattered.

That being said, I do have confidence that they'll pull it together in a way that most people will agree is a great ending. Maybe not all, because some people will always complain (as we've seen them start coming out of the woodwork like crazy this season nitpicking tiny things or actions characters do). I have faith it'll all tie together in a somewhat shocking ending....i hope.

perhaps in order to save the parallel, you have to keep the original alive.....That is a sacrifice that needs to be made. Probably the candidate's job

Fierro... as always... love the way you think :)

To give the "sideways" universe any meaning it has to be the "final" one... the one after the "reset," the Happy Ending. I feel strongly that the writers successfully coerced us into WANTING our characters to live in the "sideways." At the beginning of S6 everybody hated the FS, now we want it to be "the one."

I don't think FS Island memories are voluntary; it seems to me it has to do whether a character dies on The Island or not. So far, only people that have died ON-ISLAND had the universe bleed-throughs (Locke died off-Island), If that's the case, Hurley will die, and Jack won't. Unsure about Sawyer & Kate.

Fierro... as always... love the way you think :)

To give the "sideways" universe any meaning it has to be the "final" one... the one after the "reset," the Happy Ending. I feel strongly that the writers successfully coerced us into WANTING our characters to live in the "sideways." At the beginning of S6 everybody hated the FS, now we want it to be "the one."

I don't think FS Island memories are voluntary; it seems to me it has to do whether a character dies on The Island or not. So far, only people that have died ON-ISLAND had the universe bleed-throughs (Locke died off-Island), If that's the case, Hurley will die, and Jack won't. Unsure about Sawyer & Kate.

thanks Petragrrl! As a matter of fact I think, regardless of what caused it, that the Sideways Universe was born out of the Original Universe. So everything that took place in the Original was necessary in order for the Alternate to be alive. All the suffering, all the deaths, all the pain. Everything was needed. Perhaps that is what Jacob meant by 'it only ends once'. The Sideways universe is Jacob's masterpiece....

Think about it....We have a smoke creature that seems to be evil incarnate. He wants to go home, leave the island. What if home is actually another universe or another time?

Jacob knows that Smokie CAN NOT be killed. What if his plan during all these years have been to get to a point in which he can safely erase or obliterate the original universe, to leave the sideways only???????

Of course, his plan includes destroying the original universe when Smokie is STILL in it. That could be the only way to actually get rid of him.....

The candidate's job could be that of 'pushing the button'. To give the OK for this Smokie to be infected world to go bye bye, before it is too late...
100%
To expand on this idea:

I believe that the Candidate (in this case Jack) is presented with a choice. A difficult one....


He has to decide between destroying the original universe and EVERYTHING in it OR devote the rest of his life to keep the Smoke Monster ON the island making sure he NEVER escapes.

What do you think Jack will choose?;)


I believe those theories about the show ending with Jack and Locke talking on the beach ala Jacob and MiB is not that far off...

What exactly is so wrong with the FS universe that it could possibly be worse for these characters than what is going on in the Island one?The ALT characters appear to have had more peaceful lives than their ORIG counterparts. But now that all these "feelings" and puzzle pieces are coming together for them, I can't see them living in peace until they somehow resolve them.

I can only speak for myself, but from my side of the screen, I would be really disappointed to see our ORIG characters completely wiped out and replaced by the rosier stepford-ALT characters. They just don't seem like the Losties we know without cognition of all they've been through together.

A memory-free ALT may be better for the characters, but it would selfishy suck for me.

This is what has made me feel like the FS is going to be some sort of epilogue for the show from about the 3rd or 4th episode of this season, which feels kinda off to me, as it's almost like saying the bulk of the show didn't really happen. I really hope they find a satisfying way of bringing it together at the end.
That's another reason I'm rooting for the ALT characters to put it all together and become their old selves again. I don't care what universe they wind up in as long as they remain the characters we've always know and have experience everything we have with them.
Think about it....We have a smoke creature that seems to be evil incarnate. He wants to go home, leave the island. What if home is actually another universe or another time?

Jacob knows that Smokie CAN NOT be killed. What if his plan during all these years have been to get to a point in which he can safely erase or obliterate the original universe, to leave the sideways only???????...
Ever since I heard Smokey use the word "home", I've had trouble believing he is referring to either the ALT or ORIG outside world.

I'm not sure whose plan is which or what. There have been a lot of strong referrences to saving the world, but we don't know which (if not both) worlds would be saved nor if either needs obliterating.

I think the opening scene showing the sunken Island was a big clue. The ALT world, where there is no Island, seems to need no urgent "saving." All is quite well there.

In contrast, the ORIG world is in danger (or at least the Island is). Maybe the difference is that the Island still exists here. Could it be that it's not the ORIG world that needs obliteration, but instead the ORIG Island?

To avoid doppelganger characters residing in both, everyone left on the Island could be destroyed along with it. As long as our characters exist in some other world like the ALT, along with memories of their ORIG lives and connections to each other, I'll be content.

The ALT characters appear to have had more peaceful lives than their ORIG counterparts. But now that all these "feelings" and puzzle pieces are coming together for them, I can't see them living in peace until they somehow resolve them.

Right so... what is the point in them "remembering" things, other than to potentially ruin their nice happy lives in the FSU?
Especially going with the theory that the FSU is an epilogue, I don't understand why people would need/want/be lead to remember stuff.

beema, you would really be ok with these "new" FS Universe characters being the characters we end the show with? So basically none of the stuff we watched for the last 5 years mattered? Thats the only problem I have and I cant see them doing that, there has to at the very least be a memory of some sort which we are already seeing.

The only way I'd be ok with the SW being the real or final world, is if all the main characters gain and retain their OTL memories: then, they will end up being the people we watched for 6 seasons and also, they'll end up having learnt invaluable life lessons, thanks to everything they've been through on the Island.

IMO if executed right, this could be the mother of all payoffs.

The only way I'd be ok with the SW being the real or final world, is if all the main characters gain and retain their OTL memories: then, they will end up being the people we watched for 6 seasons and also, they'll end up having learnt invaluable life lessons, thanks to everything they've been through on the Island.

IMO if executed right, this could be the mother of all payoffs.


Agreed.

i'm just gonna open up my mouth...er, hands, and let the words spill out. hopefully in the end it makes some kind of sense (ha, just like this show), and isn't just a repeat of what others have been saying, cuz boy, am i a board-reading slacker.

and i post even less than i read, but your question reminded me of my question that i had for a long time, so i decided to spew some thoughts here.

if we go with the Road to the Multiverse (:biggrin:), then it's possible that these characters, most of whom have a better life in the FSU than in the original before the crash, only have that better life, that universe, because of what was done on-island. that universe is created by the growth they had (and will have in the final episodes) on the island. would this universe have come into being otherwise? (so that's why everything we watched for the last 5 years would've "mattered.") how was it created? what did the bomb ("it worked") have to do with it? hopefully we'll find out. i'm not even gonna begin to try to theorize on that one.

the first few seasons of the show, up thru maybe S4, i wondered why many of these characters even wanted to get off the island. i always sided with locke. jack's a failing, divorcing (drinking?) doctor, sawyer's a con man, kate is on the run, locke can't walk, rose has cancer, hurley has terrible luck, the kwon marriage sucks, sayid doesn't have nadia, charlie is od'ing on the plane, claire is giving up her baby...etc. they "land" on the island, and all is well. jack's the respected leader, sawyer is relaxed and reading on the beach and kind of a leader, no one cares 'what kate did' (well, after the marshall dies, anyway), locke isn't confined to a wheelchair, rose is cured, hurley is awesome and respected and not attracting meteors, the kwons become closer, sayid falls for shannon, charlie and claire find each other and start raising the baby. you're given a place to stay, and random food drops, so you're taken care of...why would you want to leave?!? i mean, sure, there are the others, and that weird smoke thing, but after looking generically and briefly back on everything, didn't all the problems come in after they started trying to get off the island, and change things, and do things "their way?" and ben knew all of this would happen, so that's why he led the charge to try to stop it all from happening? come to the island, do as the islanders do...or as the island "wants you to do." try to mess that up, and all hell can break loose. very garden-of-eden, as has been discussed here many times.

so, after all this, what am i trying to say? i think that somehow the FSU will be the "real world version" of the development of the characters on island. i'm not sure how the memories of the island time will come into play. how all this works is WAY beyond me. what happens to OUR losties that we spent the past 6 years with, this universe, etc is what i hope to find out on may 23.

My thinking at the moment is that whoever the Candidate is will have to make a sacrifice and stay on the island in the reality so that everyone else can have the better life in the flash sideways. They will all have the memories of what happened during their time on the island thanks to Desmond and I think that will lead to all of the characters getting together at the end of the series to see each other and to remember Jack (or whoever the Candidate may be) while we'll see Jack and Flocke on the island mirroring Jacob and the Man in Black (which was a theory I read on here that seems too perfect not to be the way things end).

Especially going with the theory that the FSU is an epilogue, I don't understand why people would need/want/be lead to remember stuff.
Because WE want them to. At least I do. I agree with evanesco and sh4dy:

The only way I'd be ok with the SW being the real or final world, is if all the main characters gain and retain their OTL memories: then, they will end up being the people we watched for 6 seasons

So basically none of the stuff we watched for the last 5 years mattered? Thats the only problem I have and I cant see them doing that, there has to at the very least be a memory of some sort which we are already seeing.

if we go with the Road to the Multiverse (:biggrin:), then it's possible that these characters, most of whom have a better life in the FSU than in the original before the crash, only have that better life, that universe, because of what was done on-island. .... would this universe have come into being otherwise? (so that's why everything we watched for the last 5 years would've "mattered.") how was it created? what did the bomb ("it worked") have to do with it? hopefully we'll find out. i'm not even gonna begin to try to theorize on that one.
I think this is great! The FS was made possible by the Losties themselves during the ORIG. Not only because of their growth, but because of all the actions they took on the Island as well.....especially those we'll be seeing in the remaining episodes.



.

perhaps in order to save the parallel, you have to keep the original alive.....That is a sacrifice that needs to be made. Probably the candidate's job

that's an idea...maybe it's about the balance....one universe is dark and the other is light.

Yes, I really like the thought that what you did on the island creates your life in the SW. And maybe, just maybe Sayid will be happier there now he's died redeeming himself.

beema, you would really be ok with these "new" FS Universe characters being the characters we end the show with? So basically none of the stuff we watched for the last 5 years mattered? Thats the only problem I have and I cant see them doing that, there has to at the very least be a memory of some sort which we are already seeing.
I think that is precisely why they are doing these bleed overs....They could get a LOT stronger by the end of the show, even to the degree that they become real memories....

And it wouldn't be 5 years wasted because those 5 years were necessary in order to get where we/they are now. Not to mention that it is NOT necessary to 'destroy' the original universe....

I'm starting to think that Jack will be the only one left alive to care about it the original universe, at least on-island. The only way to save everyone will be to save the parallel.

Yep me too. with Jack not wanting to leave it tells me this also. This way the 3000 people that died on the island wont die.

I do think the FSW is the universe the will end up in. When they said that Sun's baby would still live it convinced me to want this. So the only difference really is Jack gains a son in the alt. I get reminded of what the Samari guy said... that his son would live thru the car accident IF he took the job of living on the island but he would never be able to see him again. I think its similar, that Jack will somehow realize that he gains a son that he loves if he stays on the island.

Im really curious how Desmond & Richard all fit into this in the end.

Bad things happen on Island world.
Good things in 'other' world.
What if the 'other' world is the true original world running it's natural course, & the Island world was created by a fork in time when the Losties tampered with the past.
This Island "Doppelganger" somehow is a darker existence.
Jack tried to 'wipe it away' at the Incident
Locke/MIB wants to do the same.

Is it the natural course correction/balance of the Universe type of Kharma thing causing this or is it the plotting of the MIB, Jacob & other unseen characters.

Rose & Bernard found a nice home there. What about them?

I have had a thought about Desmond, and I hope it isn't too off-topic here. While the Losties in the parallel are accessing memories of the island, this is not occurring the other way around. There are only a few Losties left now, and those Losties are not accessing any sort of information from the original universe. My thought here is that this is why Desmond is so important. Desmond will be the one who tells Island Jack that this other universe exists. And he may convince Jack that it is worth saving. In order to do that, Jack will have to protect the island.

I have had a thought about Desmond, and I hope it isn't too off-topic here. While the Losties in the parallel are accessing memories of the island, this is not occurring the other way around. There are only a few Losties left now, and those Losties are not accessing any sort of information from the original universe. My thought here is that this is why Desmond is so important. Desmond will be the one who tells Island Jack that this other universe exists. And he may convince Jack that it is worth saving. In order to do that, Jack will have to protect the island.

BINGO!

Jack thinks his plan didn't work at all. That is what all in vain....He will feel kind or relief and compelled to save the other universe even if it means to sacrifice himself by continuing Jacob's role as Smoke MOnster Keeper.

Does Desmond knowt David, Jack's son? I think he could use that as 'proof'....Perhaps that was the name he always wanted to use for his own son.....Or that him and his exwife were planning on giving to their son...If so, David's mother in the sideways should also be the original exwife...Sarah?

Even if Desmond never told Jack about his son, Jack would still do it I think. It will add extra incentive, probably, if he does learn of it. If the Adam and Eve in the cave are not Rose and Bernard, I suspect they will be Kate and Sawyer then. I think Hurley and Jack will put them there and one of them has those stones.

I think Hurley may be Jack's Richard. What I don't know is what happens to Desmond in the end. I feel like his dying on Island is sort of a weird ending for Desmond who has been so special up to now. He is, indeed, the wildcard.

Whatever it is, I think it will have something to do with the number 3. The number 3 has been used all the time. It's spooking me out. Desmond in hatch 3. Years O6 back in LA, 3. Years Sawyer and company in the 70's, 3. Saywer Kate Jack, 3. Many others I can't recall. Like the old saying goes... things happen in 3s... is not LOST on me. :)

Love triangles! Triangulating signals!

Like the old saying goes... things happen in 3s... is not LOST on me. :)
:D Good one.

Several episodes back someone pointed out that the OT and AT were sort of the David here or Ji Yeon there choice. Once that's in front of you, it's rather hard to look away from it when thinking on reality A or B. Yeah? Maybe it's just me.

Another 3 I just remembered, and possibly an important example. The bottle, the wine, the cork.